Although most Christians either don’t know - or choose to ignore it - God strictly forbids the eating of swine flesh (pork) in the Holy Bible. This Biblical injunction and references to it can be found in the following verses: Leviticus 11:7-8; Deuteronomy 14:8; Isaiah 52:11, 65:4 and 66:17; and Ezekiel 4:14 and 44:31. And if you have a Bible that contains the Apocrypha, read 2nd Maccabees chapters 6 and 7 for a tragic and horrifying account of how those who refused to eat pork were tortured and killed by the invading Gentiles (or Europeans).

The very name of this foul animal contains an allusion to the prohibition of its flesh. In the Arabic language it is called “khinzir,” which is a combination of “khinz,” meaning “very foul,” and “ara,” meaning “I see.” So the Arabic word for swine – “khinzir” – means, “I see it very foul.” In India the swine is known by the Hindu name “su’ar,” which is pronounced like the English word “sewer.”

The flesh of swine has been proven to be injurious, not only to man’s physical health, but to his moral and spiritual health as well. The swine eats filth and takes delight in living in dirty places. It has indecent habits and possesses the evil trait of sex-perversion. Tapeworms, scrofula, cancer and encysted trichina (i.e., trichinosis) are known to be prevalent among pork-eating people. The following is a list of “foods” categorized as swine flesh and therefore forbidden by God in the Holy Bible:

bacon, baloney, barbecue ribs and/or shoulder, chitterlings (hog intestines), fatback, ham, ham hocks (hog knees), hoghead cheese, hog maws, mountain oysters (hog testicles), neckbones, pepperoni, pig ears, feet and tails, Polish sausage, pork loin, pork chops, pork skins, roast pork, salt pork, sausage and soucemeat (i.e., sow’s meat).

The flesh and blood of not only swine, but any dead animal as food is evidently injurious to man’s health. Most authorities recognize this fact on medicine. All foods that are inherently the products of violence (i.e., slaughtering and/or butchering) have a negative effect on the body’s metabolism. This is so because all flesh foods (beef, pork, lamb, fish and fowl) are the end result of murder...

Consider this profound poem re: eating pork by an anonymous author:

FROM HIS TAIL TO HIS SNOUT

He was made a scavenger, and God says he’s unclean,
and what else can we find so filthy and mean?...

Eat not his flesh, not touch his dead carcass,
for with sin and disease it surely will mark us...

Oh yes, dear people, God’s word, it is just,
still we eat the ol’ greaser, yes eat him we must...

The dirtiest of all beasts, we will not be without,
so we eat the slop-eater, from his tail to his snout...

We would be much better off if we obeyed God’s command,
and ate the vegetables, fruits, and grains of the land.

We pray long and loud, we jump and we shout,
still we eat the ol’ greaser from his tail to his snout...

How we sing, “Oh Happy Day,” and talk of love all divine,
then like vultures we feast on the dirty ol’ swine...

We might shun many ills and diseases, no doubt,
by discarding the hog from his tail to his snout...


AMEN!

I'm familiar with the scripture you referred to Kemetstry. As always, it's a matter of interpretation. I'll quote the verse. It deals primarily with Peter's report to the Church at Jerusalem:

"Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God. So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him, saying, 'Why did you go to uncircumcised men and eat with them?'

Then Peter began to explain it to them, step-by-step, saying, 'I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. There was something like a large sheet coming down from Heaven - being lowered by its four corners; and it came close to me...

As I looked at it closely I saw four-footed animals, beasts of prey, reptiles, and birds of the air. I also heard a voice saying tome, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.' But I replied, 'By no means, Lord; for nothing profane or unclean has ever entered my mouth.'

But a second time the voice answered from Heaven, 'What God has made clean, you must not call profane.' This happened three times; then everything was pulled up again to Heaven. At that very moment three men, sent to me from Caesaria, arrived at the house where we were.

The spirit told me to go with them and make not a distinction between them and us. These six also accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. He told us how he had seen the angle standing in his house and saying, 'Send to Joppa and bring Simon, who is called Peter; he will give you a message by which you and your entire household will be saved.

And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as it had upon us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. If then God gave them the same gift that he gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could hinder God?'

When they heard this, they were silenced. And they praised God, saying, 'Then God has given even to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.' " (Acts 11: 1-18)

In those times Jewish law prevented any Jew from eating with an uncircumcised Gentile. The above scripture shows that this man-made law was discriminatory and divisive. And Peter explains his actions (eating with the uncircumcised Gentiles) to his brethren by relating a dream he had that enlightened him re: the discriminatory law...

How the Christians began to refer to this particular scripture as their justification for eating swine - which is forbidden by God - and all those other animals they eat is beyond my comprehension...

kemetstry...thanks for the plug man :D

this is a question that i shall stay silent on for i would like to see the responses... Aqil...you have brought up a good question.

awaiting more conversation on the subject...

I myself don't eat pork or beef. That's because I choose to. I know there are passages in the Bible that outlines what should and should not be consumed. I don't think that because a person chooses to eat pork that they are unworthy of the blood of Christ. This is just like a woman cutting her hair and wearing makeup and pants. Certain parts of the Bible are taken in the literal sense. I'm no scholar or anything like that but Aquil you have opened my eyes and I shall read the passages that you have provided and study this more. God also said come as you are, he never said clean up first.



One

ok but i read ....i dont know wich verse chapter....
but we are alowed to eath anything said jesus......it is not the food that..make you unclean......its the mouth...the stuff that comes out off the mouth makes you unclean.....but not the food..
now me personaly..i tried to unvoid pork ..because it gives me somthimes pots...and i just try to eath healthy......not to fat...
and me personaly i think in these days people put so much bad stuff in the food ...it is not naturall anymore........and that gives Me agood reason ...to realy think about and to watch out what you eat.....

but i think it apersonal question if i see my moslimbrother eath...
pork......i wont judge him....but i wil remind him of it...........but if he enjoys it .....after i reminded him...i will say in french
bon appetite
i spelled it wrong i know ..lol

the oldest man in the U.S was 113 when he died. His relatives testified to his eating pork and smoking madd cigars most of his days.

As for food, anything from vegetables to meats are either genetically modified or organically shot the bleep up.

What Aqil has done was give Old testament verse under Old testament law and that's it, again either neglecting the true meaning and narrowing the Bible to his blind interpretatiion &understanding (no pun str8 up)

everyone read Romans 14:3,5,6,14,17 and 20. (Kemetstry, this is the actual portion you were searching for, not in Acts as Aqil mistakenly thought.

l don't eat pork, so l am not trying to justify it all;however, l can not settle easy when God's word is distorted with intent to mislead and blind the masses...

Jesus said "lt is not what goes in, but what comes out of a man's mouth which defiles (spoils) a man." He was not neglecting diet, but he was not forbidding it. He gave more emphasis to the Spirit which is the factor of all life.

God's grace surpasses the natural as it pleases, so a man can eat the whole pig plus the apple if he wanted, and live if that is what God chooses for him.....

Aqui is entirely correct.

Pork is abomination according to Yahweh.

Catfish, shrimp, lobster and a host of other things were and still are abomination.

No passage in the New Testament or any of the words of Yahushua or any of the words of the Apostles say differently.

What Aqil has done was give Old Testament verse under Old Testament law and that's it, again either neglecting the true meaning and narrowing the Bible to his blind interpretatiion &understanding (no pun str8 up)...What you have done is made another stupid statement, Jehiah (str8 up). I will stand on the merits of my prior commentary and say nothing further re: your deviate interpretations of my words and phrases...

Everyone read Romans 14:3,5,6,14,17 and 20. (Kemetstry, this is the actual portion you were searching for, not in Acts as Aqil mistakenly thought.Here are his exact words, On Enlightened One: "I believe that either Acts or Romans gives passages about accepting those that don't eat the same as you were taught..." I wasn't mistaken...you are.

l don't eat pork, so l am not trying to justify it all. However, l cannot settle easy when God's word is distorted with intent to mislead and blind the masses...As you are so feebly trying to do...

Jesus said "lt is not what goes in, but what comes out of a man's mouth which defiles (spoils) a man." He was not neglecting diet, but he was not forbidding it. He gave more emphasis to the Spirit which is the factor of all life.Read my thread titled, "Interpretation is the Key to Wisdom" in the Spirituality and Religion forum for a comprehensive analysis of the Biblical verse you refer to. It will clarify and edify your thinking on this matter...

God's grace surpasses the natural as it pleases, so a man can eat the whole pig plus the apple if he wanted, and live if that is what God chooses for him...The depth of your stupidity has reached its most fecund point with the above statement, Jehiah, especially since God forbids the eating of swine flesh in the Bible...

And you know that Jesus obeyed his Father's laws and did not eat pork...

Don't be stupid...it is unbecoming of you...

whoa...why do "CHRISTIANS" eat pork though they arent suppose to? simple they are NOT faithful Christians...Christians are not saints they are just human struggling to be who they choose to be...whether they adhere to they're own teaching is on the individual NOT the religion. But that is my humble opinion :)

oh and I speak as a vegetarian lol :)

^5 triniti424...

I see you are at it again Aqil :lol:

You tell'em bruh!

:lol: this is too much for me.....I'm a christian but I still gotta have my rib tips.....sorry aqil, I agree with you most of the time But if rib tips is forbidden, I guess im going to hell :lol:

SwtT:

What The Pork Industry Does Not Want You To Know

There are no prime cuts of pork! For obvious reasons, that you shall see, the USDA will not place its stamp on any pork product at all. There are many reasons, one is disease carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations.

Extensive research has been focused on senility - old age, which is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels in the heart, brain, etc., a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma (a disease characterized by thickening of the inner coat of the arteries) may be produced in a rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from pork fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.

Besides, hog lard contains 2800 units of vitamin D per 100 grams, and no vitamin A at all. High levels of vitamin D have been held responsible for atheroma, by causing increased absorption of calcium in the blood vessels. In human beings, serum cholesterol is dependent on the intake of cholesterol in the diet, and depends upon the proportion of animal fat in the diet, which elevate the beta-lipo protein level in the blood. Pork fat contains saturated fatty acids and these saturated fatty acids have been found to be one of the causes of atheroma. Medium fat pork bacon contains 25% protein and 55% fat.

According to medical research, the fat content in pork is more than any other meat, and it takes longer and is harder to digest. Dr. M. Jaffer, in a recent article in the Islamic Review (London), has listed 16 kinds of harmful germs that have been discovered in pork by modern research, and the diseases that could be caused by them. The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork-eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by trichinella spiralis, and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations as well. Dr. Glen Shepherd wrote the following re: the dangers of eating pork in the Washington Post:

"One in six people the in U.S. and Canada have germs in their muscles - trichinosis from eating pork infected with trichina worms. Many people so infected have no symptoms. Most of those who do have symptons recover slowly. Some die; some are reduced to permanent invalids. All were careless pork eaters. No one is immune from the disease and there is no cure. Neither antibiotics nor drugs or vaccines affect these tiny deadly worms. Preventing infection is the real answer."

Trichinosis is caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game that feeds on other animals infected with the larvae of a worm called trichinella. Infection can also occur when raw meat is touched then transferred to the mouth by the hands. Infection occurs worldwide, but is most common in areas where raw or undercooked pork is eaten - such as ham, sausage, salami and other dried, cured or smoked pork products that have never been cooked. Encyclopedia.com states: “It is estimated that 10% to 20% of the adult population of the United States suffers from trichinosis at some time. In many people the disease exhibits no symptoms and is discovered only at autopsy.”

Infection occurs when a human or animal eats meat that contains infective trichinella cysts, the acid in the stomach dissolves the hard covering of the cyst and releases the worms. The worms pass into the small intestine, and become mature in 1-2 days. After mating, adult females lay eggs. Eggs develop into mature worms, travel through the arteries, and are transported to muscles. Within the muscles, the worms curl into a ball and encyst (become enclosed in a capsule). Infection occurs when these encysted worms are consumed in meat. You are at risk for trichinosis if you eat, or even touch raw or undercooked meats, such as pork. All animals that are vegetarian, chew the cud, and have split hooves are safe to eat. (See Leviticus 11:7-8 in the Bible.)

I suggest never eating anything that the Bible does not call “food” However, if you are a Christian and feel the need to risk your health and well-being for the sake of the taste of pork, then cooking it until the juices run clear or to an internal temperature of 180 degrees; or freezing pork less than 6 in. thick for 20 days at 5 degrees can kill trichina worms, yet there is no guarantee. Curing, drying, smoking, or microwaving meat does not consistently kill infective trichina worms. This makes you think about all that ham, sausage, salami and other cured or smoked pork products that are traditionally never cooked!

There is no real guarantee of safety when eating pork or handling raw pork. The pork industry is helpless against this parasite because antibiotics, drugs and vaccines are ineffective. This is why the USDA will not place its stamp on pork. That is why modern doctors and dieticians advise against eating pork.

There is no way of getting rid of trichinella larvae in humans or animals; there is no cure, and there are no symptoms of detection. Therefore, do not believe the lies put out by the pork industry that say it is okay to cook pork "medium well."

Aqul, you have asked the question"Why do CHRISTIANS eat Pork
even though in the bible it says that We are forbidden to eat pork. In the OldTestament and only in the old testament it says Pork eating is forbidden, as for that Doritos, Skittles and alot more foods would be forbidden
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

Aqil, you have asked the question, "Why do CHRISTIANS eat pork"...
even though in the bible it says that we are forbidden to eat pork. In the New Testament and only in the New Testament it says pork-eating is forbidden...
Perhaps you meant to say "Old Testament." God strictly forbids the eating of swine flesh (pork) in the following verses: Leviticus 11:7-8; Deuteronomy 14:8; Isaiah 52:11, 65:4 and 66:17; and Ezekiel 4:14 and 44:31...

Re: the New Testament...Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. He didn't eat pork because he obeyed the laws of his Father that are written in the Old Testament, which is the only Bible that Jesus read...

Correct, I was thinking faster than I was typing only in the Old
Testament it says we are forbidden to eat pork, however in the New Testament it says nothing about pork eating, the bible also talks about wearing earrings and woman adorning themselves with jewels and make up in the Old Testament and many in the southern churches believes that a woman should be natural and make up and earrings should not be worn.
I don't know it's a religous thang, i'm sure I am not going to hell over some pork, thank you for that correction
:lol: :) :lol: :lol: :read: :read: :read: :read:

It also says in Matthew 15:10 that " what goes in doesn't make him unclean but what comes out of his mouth is what makes him unclean". Because whatever comes out of the mouth comes from the heart and that makes him unclean, whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and out of the body. Eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean. :peace:

"For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you."
This is indeed one of the most misinterpretated of Jesus' admonitions to his disciples. In some Eastern religious eschatologies and/or belief systems this verse is interpreted as follows:

It's not what you call me, but what I answer to...

Here is the analysis:

"Jesus says: 'Go among the people, eat whatever they set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.' "

This is a very significant saying. It means: Don't bother too much if the food is not pure, or if an untouchable has touched it, or if a woman who is having her period has passed by and her shadow has defiled it...

The question is not what you take in, the question is what you bring out - because what you bring out, that shows your quality; how you transform what you take in, that's the thing...

A lotus is born in the mud; the mud is transformed and becomes a lotus. The lotus never says: 'I will not eat this mud, this is dirty!' No, that is not the question. If you are a lotus nothing is dirty. If you have the capacity of a lotus; if you have the transforming power - the alchemy - then you can remain and a lotus will be born...

And if you don't have the quality of a lotus, then even if you live in gold, only mud will come out of you. What goes in is not the point. The point is that if you are centered in your being, whatsoever goes in is changed, is transformed; it takes your quality of being and comes out...

So Jesus says: 'For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.'

So remember how you transform things: if somebody insults you, he feeds you with an insult...that is not going to defile you. What comes out of you now? How do you transform the insult? Does love come out of you or hate?

Jesus says: 'Remember what comes out of you, don't bother much about goes in.' And this has to be remembered by you too, otherwise your whole approach can go wrong. If you continuously think about what goes in, then you never develop that capacity of being that can transform things. Then the whole thing becomes outward: pure food, this type of food and that type of food; nobody should touch you...you are a Brahmin, a pure soul. Then the whole thing becomes nonsense!

The real thing is not what comes in, the real thing is to remember that you have to transform it..."

"What goes in you cannot defile you because whatsoever goes in, goes in the body. Nothing can go into YOU, your purity is absolute. But whatsoever comes out of you carries your quality, the fragrance of your being - that shows something. If anger comes out of you, that shows that inside you are ill; if hatred comes out of you, that shows that inside you are not whole; if love, compassion and light comes out of you, that shows that wholeness has been achieved...

I hope you will understand this strange saying. Misunderstanding is easy, and with persons like Jesus misunderstanding is always possible...understanding almost impossible - because they speak truths, and truths are always paradoxical because you are not ready to listen...not centered.

You understand through the mind and the mind gets mixed up, confused, and it interprets - then this saying becomes dangerous. I must tell you that this saying has not been recorded in the Authorized Version of the Bible. It has been left out - because what he is saying is dangerous!

It is recorded, but not in the Authorized Version, not in the Bible Christians believe. But when Jesus was speaking many other people were recording, and this record has survived. It was found 47 years ago in a cave in Egypt..."

(See THE MUSTARD SEED, Discourses on the Sayings of Jesus taken from the Gospel According to Thomas, by Bagwan Shree Rajneesh.)

Correct interpretation is the key to wisdom, JCsChild04...

More on the Biblical perspective:

Doesn't it seem strange that all the animals on the planet have a specific diet that they feed according to? Birds eat seeds, cats and dogs eat meat, cows eat grass, etc. Only human beings think that they can eat everything. It just does not seem natural; Why would God create all the creatures on earth with a specific diet for their health and well-being, and leave man without a human diet? Answer: HE DIDN’T!

All types of animals are clean to be eaten - whether those living on land or in the water - except those specifically forbidden in God's Law which are revealed as being not suitable or good for food. So in fact, swine flesh is not “food” at all!

Swine belongs to the animals that are not designated as food, and are not to be eaten. Pigs will eat almost anything that is rotten or dirty, and they are very lazy animals. It is the most covetous and greedy of all domestic animals. Among all animals, the pig is the cradle of harmful germs. Its flesh serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind; this is the very reason why it is unfit for human consumption.

The Old Testament

The first five books of the Bible (i.e., the Pentateuch) are known as the Law. Within this law there are three divisions; moral, health and sacrificial or ceremonial law. Under the new covenant or agreement between God and His people, true Christians keep the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments and all of God’s health laws. Man's health and well-being is protected by keeping God’s moral and health laws. Christians are no longer under the sacrificial or ceremonial law which was fulfilled by the sacrifice of Christ, thus they are no longer under the penalty of the law...which is death (Galatians).

The true church of God believes in the Old Testament. Adherents of other religions alleged that the New Testament superseded the health laws. This unfounded argumentation is without merit. No one can specifically point out where Jesus lifted the prohibition of parasite-infested swine. On the contrary, he upheld it and declared:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17) Jesus was obviously referring to the existing Law of God, in which the Law prohibiting pig as an article of food is part of. (See Leviticus 11:7-8.)

"Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof, but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you: whoever touches them becomes unclean." (Leviticus 11:26) In addition, the book of Isaiah says:

"Who sit in tombs, and spend the night in secret places who eat swine's flesh and broth of abominable things is in their vessels...these are a smoke in my nostrils, a fire that burns all the day." (Isaiah 65:4,5)

The New Testament

Despite the Biblical injunction prohibiting pork as food, still people of other religious persuasions insist on finding ways and reasons to justify their consumption of prohibited animals, arguing that said Biblical prohibition was already superseded in the New Testament...when in fact, no one can specifically point out where Jesus lifted the prohibition. The fact is, we will find in Mark 5:1-20 that Jesus permitted the foul spirits (evil spirits) possessing a man to enter into a herd of swine, since the flesh of swine was unlawful for the Jews to eat, and since it is considered unclean.

The only provision in the New Testament alluded to their argument is in Act 10:10-16. Without reading the whole context, one would be inclined to interpret it to mean that God abolished His previous command found in Deuteronomy 14:3-8.

The vision of Peter in Acts 10:10-16 is alleged to supersede Deuteronomy 14:3-8. However, nowhere in the Bible is it mentioned that Peter actually ate the unclean animals he saw in his vision. To the contrary, 25 years after the ascension of Jesus, Peter proclaims; "I have never eaten anything common or unclean.'' The correct evaluation of this vision is revealed to us in Acts 10:28, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Acts 10:28 therefore carries an allegorical connotation, referring explicitly to the Gentile nations or non-Israeli people that God is calling. Peter was told not to call the Gentiles "common" and "unclean" because God's mercy and forgiveness also extends to the non-Jew, and life eternal in the kingdom of God also awaits the repentant Gentile.

The Millennium

The book of Isaiah, ch. 66:1-24, is a prophecy of the new Heavens and the new Earth...a time after Jesus returns to rule all nations and set up his kingdom on Earth. Within that context God still condemns eating the flesh of pigs, reptiles, and rats:

"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together says the LORD. " (Isaiah 67:17)

It is ridiculous to think that God changed His good health laws in the New Testament, and will start them up again during the Millennium. The prohibition on the eating of unclean animals (which are proven detrimental to good health) was not abrogated during New Testament times. God will punish the unrepentant transgressors in the lake of fire.

In conclusion

You are what you eat! Your body is called the "temple of the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians 6:19), thus it is your duty not to abuse or harm God's temple in any way. We have been, “...bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's” (6:20). Our bodies are no longer ours to abuse, but rather God’s...to be cared for the way He instructs us. We should be mindful of Him in all things...including right eating.

Maybe they eat pork because they think it tastes good?

That's exactly what I was gonna say, but Manasiac beat me to the punch line. I know that's why I eat it and boy is it sho nuff good! Wooo...my,my,my. Hamhocks in collards...yes! Hamhock in white acre peas with okra...yes! However, I rarely eat pork more than 10 times a year because I love seafood so much and grilled chicken...my,my,my. Let me git up from here and go eat. :wink:

That's exactly what I was gonna say, but Manasiac beat me to the punch line. I know that's why I eat it and boy is it sho nuff good! Wooo...my,my,my. Hamhocks in collards...yes! Hamhock in white acre peas with okra...yes! However, I rarely eat pork more than 10 times a year because I love seafood so much and grilled chicken...my,my,my. Let me git up from here and go eat. :wink:

Okayyyy... cause I got my collard and turnip greens burlin' right now wit sum hamhocks up in 'em ... aiight !!! But I do try to limit my consumption of pork as well and do enjoy greens, peas, and beans with smoked turkey as well which is also very tasty.

Nevertheless, I've always been conflicted about the dietary laws in the old testament. I can't understand why God would give us dominion over all the animals of land, sea, and air then deny us certain ones by labeling them unclean :confused: I thought everything He made was GOOD. I tend to lean more toward the NEW convenant.



Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

Everything He made was good, Akilah...but that doesn't mean we can eat everything He made...:nono:

Those Ham hocks and pig tails sho' taste good to y'all huh? That's the same thing the hog was thinking about when it was gobblin' up dishwater, feces, mud, mice carcasses, roaches, and just about anything else it was wallowing around in the filthy pig pen. Wake up people, it's 2004. Our enslaved ancestors had little choice but to eat that ish... We do. This is somebody who used to LOVE some neckbones in my collards. Discipline is the key to salvation. One.

Everything He made was good, Akilah...but that doesn't mean we can eat everything He made...:nono:

Okay.... *sighs* :yawn: I hear ya ...

Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

Everything He made was good, Akilah...but that doesn't mean we can eat everything He made...:nono:

Aqil...I totally agree with you. After all, we should carefully pick and choose what we like. Moreover, it is not what goes in a man's mouth that defiles him, but rather what comes out of it that does so. I carefully pick hamhocks and boy do I like them when I cook wit em!

Akilah...Can I come over your house gurl. You iz talkin' to my stomach big time wit dem greens chile. :wink:

Aqil...I totally agree with you. After all, we should carefully pick and choose what we like.We should pick and choose what God intended for us to eat...

Moreover, it is not what goes in a man's mouth that defiles him, but rather what comes out of it that does so.From THE MUSTARD SEED, Discourses on the Sayings of Jesus taken from the Gospel According to Thomas, by Bagwan Shree Rajneesh:

"Jesus says: 'Go among the people, eat whatever they set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.' "

This is a very significant saying. It means: Don't bother too much if the food is not pure, or if an untouchable has touched it, or if a woman who is having her period has passed by and her shadow has defiled it...

The question is not what you take in, the question is what you bring out - because what you bring out, that shows your quality; how you transform what you take in, that's the thing...

A lotus is born in the mud; the mud is transformed and becomes a lotus. The lotus never says: 'I will not eat this mud, this is dirty!' No, that is not the question. If you are a lotus nothing is dirty. If you have the capacity of a lotus; if you have the transforming power - the alchemy - then you can remain and a lotus will be born...

And if you don't have the quality of a lotus, then even if you live in gold, only mud will come out of you. What goes in is not the point. The point is that if you are centered in your being, whatsoever goes in is changed, is transformed; it takes your quality of being and comes out...

So Jesus says: 'For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.'

So remember how you transform things: if somebody insults you, he feeds you with an insult...that is not going to defile you. What comes out of you now? How do you transform the insult? Does love come out of you or hate?

Jesus says: 'Remember what comes out of you, don't bother much about goes in.' And this has to be remembered by you too, otherwise your whole approach can go wrong. If you continuously think about what goes in, then you never develop that capacity of being that can transform things. Then the whole thing becomes outward: pure food, this type of food and that type of food; nobody should touch you...you are a Brahmin, a pure soul. Then the whole thing becomes nonsense!

The real thing is not what comes in, the real thing is to remember that you have to transform it..."

"What goes in you cannot defile you because whatsoever goes in, goes in the body. Nothing can go into YOU, your purity is absolute. But whatsoever comes out of you carries your quality, the fragrance of your being - that shows something. If anger comes out of you, that shows that inside you are ill; if hatred comes out of you, that shows that inside you are not whole; if love, compassion and light comes out of you, that shows that wholeness has been achieved..."

In other words, it's not what you call me, but what I answer to...

I hope you will understand this saying. Misunderstanding is easy, and with persons like Jesus misunderstanding is always possible...understanding almost impossible - because they speak truths, and truths are always paradoxical when you are not ready to listen...

Akilah...Can I come over your house gurl. You iz talkin' to my stomach big time wit dem greens chile. :wink:

Gurl... come on over !!!
I'll fix ya a hot plate ...
You like cracklin's in your cornbread ???
:coffee: lol ....

Much Love,
Akilah :spinstar:

Oh yeah gurl...I love cracklins in my cornbread. You know...very few people make cornbread like that anymore. I have to go to Blakely Georgia, where I was born. Gurl, they put hamhocks on the plate that have more meat on them than a quarter piece of chicken. That's because they let their hogs get pretty big up deah.

Have you ever cooked turnips and mustards together with hamhocks and fresh garlic. I'm telling ya chile, they taste so good you will slap your uncle. :D

Have you ever had white acres peas ($6 a pound where I live) with hamhocks and okra...gurl...my, my, my. My husband is a sweet country boy who has been cooking since he was 12 years old. His granny taught him and he later took it to another level. And I am enjoying all of his levels.

"Jesus says: 'Go among the people, eat whatever they set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.' "

Aqil Says: This is a very significant saying. It means: Don't bother too much if the food is not pure, or if an untouchable has touched it, or if a woman who is having her period has passed by and her shadow has defiled it...


Joyce Responds: Gosh! I could have sworn that meant to go among the people and eat whatever they set before you and heal the sick among them. For whatever goes into your mouth (that includes ham and barbeque ribs) doesn't defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.

Hmmm....let me go back and read that again and see if I can find your inclusion in His statement about a woman's period and her shadow. Darn, I must've missed that somewhere. :wink:

Akilah said: Nevertheless, I've always been conflicted about the dietary laws in the old testament. I can't understand why God would give us dominion over all the animals of land, sea, and air then deny us certain ones by labeling them unclean I thought everything He made was GOOD. I tend to lean more toward the NEW convenant.


Akilah Said: I can't understand why God would give us dominion over all the animals of land, sea, and air then deny us certain ones by labeling them unclean I thought everything He made was GOOD.

I know Aqil is gonna be right on my heels for saying this :cuss: , but...oh well. Let the fights begin :argue:

Akilah, it is true as Aquil have said:
Everything He made was good...but that doesn't mean we can eat everything He made.


Joyce: He made venom which is good, but that doesn't mean that we should drink it. He made mushrooms also, but some of them are poisonous and will bring a suffering death within 72 hours. However, ham does not fall in that category for us. Well some say that a hog and a crab will eat anything just about and this is why we should not eat ham or fried crablegs. However, what they don't understand is that a catfish and a hog both have a "cleansing system" in place which prevents the "junk" from getting into their flesh. It works pretty much like the system of a cow who though eats green grass, passes white milk. Now ain dat sumthin how God did that.

"Jesus says: 'Go among the people, eat whatever they set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.' " Gosh! I could have sworn that meant to go among the people and eat whatever they set before you and heal the sick among them. For whatever goes into your mouth (that includes ham and barbeque ribs) doesn't defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.
Here is the rest of my post in its entirety:

This is a very significant saying. It means: Don't bother too much if the food is not pure, or if an untouchable has touched it, or if a woman who is having her period has passed by and her shadow has defiled it...

The question is not what you take in, the question is what you bring out - because what you bring out, that shows your quality; how you transform what you take in, that's the thing...

A lotus is born in the mud; the mud is transformed and becomes a lotus. The lotus never says: 'I will not eat this mud, this is dirty!' No, that is not the question. If you are a lotus nothing is dirty. If you have the capacity of a lotus; if you have the transforming power - the alchemy - then you can remain and a lotus will be born...

And if you don't have the quality of a lotus, then even if you live in gold, only mud will come out of you. What goes in is not the point. The point is that if you are centered in your being, whatsoever goes in is changed, is transformed; it takes your quality of being and comes out...

So Jesus says: 'For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you.'

So remember how you transform things: if somebody insults you, he feeds you with an insult...that is not going to defile you. What comes out of you now? How do you transform the insult? Does love come out of you or hate?

Jesus says: 'Remember what comes out of you, don't bother much about goes in.' And this has to be remembered by you too, otherwise your whole approach can go wrong. If you continuously think about what goes in, then you never develop that capacity of being that can transform things. Then the whole thing becomes outward: pure food, this type of food and that type of food; nobody should touch you...you are a Brahmin, a pure soul. Then the whole thing becomes nonsense!

The real thing is not what comes in, the real thing is to remember that you have to transform it..."

"What goes in you cannot defile you because whatsoever goes in, goes in the body. Nothing can go into YOU, your purity is absolute. But whatsoever comes out of you carries your quality, the fragrance of your being - that shows something. If anger comes out of you, that shows that inside you are ill; if hatred comes out of you, that shows that inside you are not whole; if love, compassion and light comes out of you, that shows that wholeness has been achieved..."

In other words, it's not what you call me, but what I answer to...

I hope you will understand this saying. Misunderstanding is easy, and with persons like Jesus misunderstanding is always possible...understanding almost impossible - because they speak truths, and truths are always paradoxical when you are not ready to listen...

(THE MUSTARD SEED, Discourses on the Sayings of Jesus taken from the Gospel According to Thomas, by Bagwan Shree Rajneesh)

Akilah, you don't have to read all of this if you don't want to. I didn't realize I have went so long, but nevertheless, everything I've said was said for the purpose of bring clarity to this misunderstood belief that eating ham is a sin.


Akilah Said: I tend to lean more toward the NEW convenant.

Akilah, the reason I eat ham, smothered pork chops and ribs is because it is truly okay to do so. You will find that even though Jesus has fulfilled the law, there are some today who will try to make you feel guilty for not living under it. Moreover, in the old testament the command to eat only certain animals was a spiritual one and not because it would kill you dead (as poison) in a matter of 72 hours or less.

May I also add that this law was given to Jews ONLY and not to the gentiles. A certain lifestyle of obedience was expected of the Jews for the purpose of being spiritually clean. After all, this is the race of people that God chose to send His Son through. The hog and catfish eats things that have already died. This is a spiritual reflection of death and impurity in terms of the spirit. However, in terms of the natural, they (the hog, catfish, lobster, etc.) play an important role in helping to keep God's world "CLEAN" from deteriorating flesh. So that's why EVERYTHING God made is GOOD. The hog and the crab has their purpose in life, just like the cow.

This particular law was given to the Jews only for the purpose of understanding the spiritual depth of spiritual purity and reflecting that understanding before the face of others who lived around them or came in contact with them. They were a people, set aside for the special purpose of revealing God's plan to ALL mankind. They were no better than anyone else, but their purpose was simply different than anyone else's at that time and era.

Jesus lived and died under the law, that the standards of all of God's law might be fulfilled finally. It was simply impossible for man to live by and under God's law because his sinful nature (inherited via Adam's fall) simply prevented him from doing so. God said if you broke a "little" part of the law, you've broken the whole thing. Thus, we are left with only one law now and that is to love God, your neighbor and YOURSELF with all of your heart, mind and soul. Because in doing this, you have fulfilled your end of the bargain concerning the law. All the other "work and labor" was satisified in God's sight through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ.

I hope it is okay if I post some scriptures here to help bring more clarity to what I am saying. After all, if it is not in the bible, you should NOT pay me any attention at all because I am just flesh and prone to err as any man.

In Romans 14:17 Paul declared “The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”

In I Timothy 4:1-5 Paul charged some with teaching doctrines of demons and speaking lies in hypocrisy. In explaining what they did wrong he said, “They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods that God created to be received with gratitude by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good and nothing should be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, since it is sanctified by the word of God and by prayer.”



Akilah...The just shall live by faith...NOT by the law. And thus, you have spoken rightly in that you should lean towards the New for the Old simply paved the way...for the New. Today if one is going to bind the laws on eating from the Old Testament and the Sabbath observance from the Old Testament they are obligated to obey the whole thing. That means if they aren’t Jews they aren’t even under it. If they are Gentiles and want to be under the Old Covenant they have to become proselytes to it. Who is the person who is really ready to try to obey all the Old Testament law today? I have NEVER met such a person. Of course you and I have met people who try to keep parts of it, but what they don't understand is that you can't live part of it while not beholding the totality of it. You can’t pick and choose. :nono: Either every part of the Old Testament is bound on man or no part of it is. And since it is impossible for me to keep the whole law, I choose to follow the New Covenant sealed with the blood of Christ that offers grace and forgiveness instead of the Old Law that was simply to pave the way for Christ.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Galatians Chapter 5:

3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised (in an attempt to keep the law) that he is a debtor to keep the whole law :yawn: . 4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

And so it is Akilah, we can't keep the law, nor should we let anyone judge us or make us "feel" guilty for not trying to keep it. The law has been fulfilled through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and a new command He has given us...LOVE.

Please Read The Love Chapter I Corinthians 13. This sums up the whole thing.

:wave: Akilah

Aqil...I have decided not to converse with you on this thread. :argue: You believe what you believe and I have chosen to live by what Jesus Christ has given me. I am not trying to change you and you sho ain't bout to change me. So let's not :argue: fight about this okay. :spin: Because when it comes down to it, eating too much of anything (including vegetables) is a sin...Thus I eat in moderation. Love you sweetie.

~joyce

In I Timothy 4:1-5 Paul charged some with teaching doctrines of demons and speaking lies in hypocrisy. In explaining what they did wrong he said, “They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods that God created to be received with gratitude by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good and nothing should be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, since it is sanctified by the word of God and by prayer.”

Please Read The Love Chapter I Corinthians 13. This sums up the whole thing.

:wave: Akilah



Thank you my Sister :love:

Yesss... I love to mix up my different greens; I always put garlic in them and, white acres peas ARE good !!! Have you ever tried lady peas though ? Now that is some hecka good eatin'.... :wink:


Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

PS: 1 Corinthians 13 happens to be one of my favorite scriptures.

Naw Chile. I even heard of Lady peas. :confused: Sounds good. Do these also grow out in the country (GA or Ala.)? How do you cook yours?

Hmm.....Why do Most Christians Eat Pork When It Is Forbidden In the Bible? Pastor ain't nevah said too much about that one now that I think about it? I just figure with all the wine drankin' they did in the Bible...who ever wrote them parts probably was lit...that was an accident. Christians did all kinds of things then and We still do all kinds of thing now. Some of us probably gon' be sittin side by side in h*** with barbecue sauce around our mouths holding pork rib bones. They say it's gon' be fire down there anyway...probably for a big' ol barbecue all the pork you can eat. I'm from Georgia too...down there we christians eat pork err-thang. From the rooty to the tooty. (Lord, forgive me?????????????) Cracklin' cornbread? and white acre peas? I Wanna Go Home!

:spin: :x: :angel: :hot: :laugh: Your post brought a smile to my face. So much truth there. Gosh! If eating barbeque was a sin though, I would surely be in a "hell" of a lot of trouble...thank goodness I'm covered by the blood of Jesus and not dem hogs. :lol:

:wave: SweetBrownSugar

Speaking as someone who is on the journey ro vegetarianism, the first thing I gave up was pork. Why? It literally made me ill. Have you seen the amount of grease when you cook pork? I switched over to turkey products years ago. Now, I don't even eat those. Eventually, the dairy and eggs have to go... And eggs just recently made me ill, so....... But, I've been following this post. I used to think that I could not give up pork..but most of the turkey tastes about the same. And some of that other stuff, like hog maws and whatnot.. Eww! Pig stomach? Ears? Snout? IMHO, that is just gross.

Speaking as someone who is on the journey ro vegetarianism, the first thing I gave up was pork. Why? It literally made me ill. Have you seen the amount of grease when you cook pork? I switched over to turkey products years ago. Now, I don't even eat those. Eventually, the dairy and eggs have to go... And eggs just recently made me ill, so....... But, I've been following this post. I used to think that I could not give up pork..but most of the turkey tastes about the same. And some of that other stuff, like hog maws and whatnot.. Eww! Pig stomach? Ears? Snout? IMHO, that is just gross.

You are on the right track, only a few (such as yourself) will be disciplined enough to stay on it. In a few years time, you will notice how much better you feel and younger you look while everyone else will be :jawdrop:
You should sit back and observe what people eat and how they look and act. They literally take on the characteristics of what they allow into their bodies.

And like I said before this is somebody from the DEEP south who grew up on Neckbones, hamhocks (hog knees), maws (hog stomach lining), etc. I had to make a decision on whether I loved myself or the pig more (which reminds me of the irony of black people's situation!)

Naw Chile. I even heard of Lady peas. :confused: Sounds good. Do these also grow out in the country (GA or Ala.)? How do you cook yours?


They are real tinsy lil' peas and you cook em the same way u cook the others... you just have to be mindful that they are delicate and be careful when you're stirring 'em. Farmers grow them here in 'Bama :lips: and they are sold at all the farmer's markets.

Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

P.S. They are good w/ smoked turkey too :wink:

My! I will check that out for sure. We have a farmer's market here. Hopefully, I will find them in Florida. But if not, Alabama here I come. :wink: Being that I love myself some smoked turkey, I will sho be trying them out with soma dat. :spin:

i love meats, i just don't eat them.
mad cow, HIV, SARS, all stem from the eating of meat.

complex problem, simple solution.

nuts, fruits, grains, vegetables.
:toast:

I just happen to go back a few responses on this thread and read this one from AUM about how the pig be gobblin' up mice, dishwater, roaches.....BRruPP!!!! My mama used to always tell us, Shoot! Gul, a hog will eat a newborn baby if he got a'hope to one! See, as a little kid(going to church too) that's ALL we had most times. Hog. Homemade Brunswick stew. Souse meat. Barbecuing a whole hog...like they do in Hawaii only better. Everybody else had bacon and eggs...we had fatback and eggs. After reading that response? I don't think I can eat a porkchop sam'ich the same. But I will eat it. We used to save slop for other people's hogs, so I knew what nasty things they ate. But I just never thought of it like that as a kid So I ate and it was good. Kind of like Adam and Eve biting the apple or fruit which tasted good to them...same consequences I guess, death somewhere down the line. When you make better decisions such as changing to vegetarian diets and these other diets? The bible doesn't forbid it but, are you not going to eat rice? Because certain places they DO urinate/deficate in these rice paddies in these foreign countries. Even when we wash our fruits and vegetables, which are grown in animal manure -fertilizer. Probably the manure of the hogs that you choose not to eat, what about insecticides? Plus, they doing stuff to the corn now.(altering it genetically or something crazy like that) We are eating it here and they are shipping it to places in africa. And these people are not accepting some US corn cause of what they are doing to it. These days it seems we are damned if we do. Damned if we don't. I just pray over my meals and pray period. Christians do so many things that are forbidden in the bible.

i love meats, i just don't eat them.
mad cow, HIV, SARS, all stem from the eating of meat.

complex problem, simple solution.

nuts, fruits, grains, vegetables.
:toast:

I was waiting on some enlightened person to touch on that!

Peace

i love meats, i just don't eat them.
mad cow, HIV, SARS, all stem from the eating of meat.

complex problem, simple solution.

nuts, fruits, grains, vegetables.
:toast:


How does eating meat cause HIV or SARS ?



Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

How does eating meat cause HIV or SARS ?



Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:
they say HIV was introduced to humans from primates because Africans were killing monkeys and eating the meat.
they say SARS is a virus that leaped from fowl to humans in China.

i say if we didn't eat the meat we would not have been in close contact with these animals and enabled these diseases to leap over to humans.

they say HIV was introduced to humans from primates because Africans were killing monkeys and eating the meat.
they say SARS is a virus that leaped from fowl to humans in China.

Who is "they" and what are their credentials :confused:

Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

"They" also told me I could git the nile virus from a bad mosquito bite (all dem jokers bad if ya ask me) but I ain about to move out of Florida :lol: Life is full of risks ain't it. :wave: Yet life is good when I sit down to me a plate of white acre peas and okra...smothered in...oh my...there goes that word again...ham hocks. Wooo...what a risk. Guess I'll just halfta eat my way thru it. :x:

~j

If you can get mad cow from eating beef, bird flu from eating fowl, trichinosis and tapeworm from pork, what makes one think that other diseases aren't floating around in these animals? wait...I can hear the responses now. "Animals can't get HIV, they don't have the same blood as humans". But if "they" are right, you must remember Gravy is blood too.

if you want to eat meat, my argument is not going to stop you.
i felt the same way once and no one could persuade me.

then i had the second heart attack, the really bad one.
it was the greatest pain i ever felt in my life.
i was lying on the floor and could not breathe or move.

i decided that i would never do anything to give myself that pain again.

i love meat.
i stopped eating meat.

you make your own decision. :idea:

I remember pork. I eat tofu now. I'm learning how to make animal-free gravy and live without fried food. I miss pork sometimes. And chicken. And fish. But, diabetes and high blood pressure run in my family, and I'm carrying extra weight myself. I plan to be around for my children (my son is 10 months old).... so, no meat, ESPECIALLY pork.

^5 AUM, toylin and jamesfrmphilly:

The flesh of swine has been proven to be injurious, not only to man’s physical health, but to his moral and spiritual health as well. The swine eats filth and takes delight in living in dirty places. It has indecent habits and possesses the evil trait of sex-perversion. Tapeworms, scrofula, cancer and encysted trichina (i.e., trichinosis) are known to be prevalent among pork-eating people. The following is a list of “foods” categorized as swine flesh and therefore forbidden by God in the Holy Bible:

bacon, baloney, barbecue ribs and/or shoulder, chitterlings (hog intestines), fatback, ham, ham hocks (hog knees), hoghead cheese, hog maws, mountain oysters (hog testicles), neckbones, pepperoni, pig ears, feet and tails, Polish sausage, pork loin, pork chops, pork skins, roast pork, salt pork, sausage and soucemeat (i.e., sow’s meat).

The flesh and blood of not only swine, but any dead animal as food is evidently injurious to man’s health. Most authorities recognize this fact on medicine. All foods that are inherently the products of violence (i.e., slaughtering and/or butchering) have a negative effect on the body’s metabolism. This is so because all flesh foods (beef, pork, lamb, fish and fowl) are the end result of murder...

I haven’t been really keeping up with this thread, but here is my two cents. I have no problem with someone stating that Christians (or anyone else for that matter) should not eat pork because it is not healthy for them. What I do have a problem with is anyone who tries to use the Old Testament to back up his or her claim that eating pork is forbidden. Old Testament law became obsolete when Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins once and for all.

I haven’t been really keeping up with this thread, but here is my two cents. I have no problem with someone stating that Christians (or anyone else for that matter) should not eat pork because it is not healthy for them. What I do have a problem with is anyone who tries to use the Old Testament to back up his or her claim that eating pork is forbidden. Old Testament law became obsolete when Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins once and for all.

I agree, it should be for health reasons only, that one does not eat pork. Many muslims have eaten fried chicken or cat fish and thought that it was healthier than eating ham...now ain't dat something.

Is this how it's going to be on judgement day?....."God, I been real good down there on earth!....I did some of that other stuff the Bible say don't do, but I ate lettuce!...You hear me God? I ate lettuce! I would like to think that GOD WILL FORGIVE ME for eating an occasional ham-hock and allow me into heaven's gate To sit by the vegetarian....who probably ain't gon' get to heaven any faster cause he ate a diet of vegetables? But I commend these men/women who are doing it for health reasons.

Scientists Sound Alert on Another Bird Flu Virus

HONG KONG (Reuters) - A bird flu virus commonly found in chickens in Hong Kong's markets could mutate and jump more easily to humans, possibly leading to the next influenza pandemic, scientists said on Tuesday. Researchers found the H9N2 virus in about 2% of chickens in a study between 2001 and 2003.

"H9N2 is widely circulating in this geographical region, and that increases the chance of this virus jumping to other species and degenerating into a novel subtype of influenza that is able to infect humans," said Leo Poon, a microbiologist at the University of Hong Kong. "Eventually, we will have a new pandemic strain. We don't know when, we don't know where, but better surveillance could help delay this disaster from happening," he said. Poon was part of a team that conducted the study.

The H9N2 virus is different from the H5N1 strain that swept large parts of Asia earlier this year, killing 24 people. About 100 million poultry died or were culled.

H9N2 has been detected in pigs and at least three people since 1999 in Hong Kong. It has a lower mortality rate than H5N1, but that means there is also a greater likelihood of it passing between species and mutating into something deadlier. "Most of the infected chickens don't die, which means it can jump more easily to pigs, which are mixing vessels (for viruses) to mix and mutate," Poon said. "And if it mutates and jumps to humans, it will be more virulent," he added.

Pigs are susceptible to a variety of flu viruses and can be infected with viruses from different species, such as ducks and humans, at the same time. If this happens, it is possible for the genes of these viruses to mix and create a new virus that can be deadly to humans.

Scientists say major flu pandemics occur every 30-35 years. The deadliest in the past century was the swine flu pandemic of 1918-19 that killed between 20 million and 50 million people worldwide, including 500,000 in the United States.

The exact source of this virulent strain is unknown but is thought to have been wild birds. The virus behind the last major flu outbreak, the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of 1968, is thought to have originated in wild aquatic birds such as ducks.

Is this how it's going to be on judgement day?....."God, I been real good down there on earth!....I did some of that other stuff the Bible say don't do, but I ate lettuce!...You hear me God? I ate lettuce! I would like to think that GOD WILL FORGIVE ME for eating an occasional ham-hock and allow me into heaven's gate To sit by the vegetarian....who probably ain't gon' get to heaven any faster cause he ate a diet of vegetables? But I commend these men/women who are doing it for health reasons.


BrownSugar,

I am here at the library. When I read this, I broke out into laughter :lol: , forgetting where I was. However, I quickly, caught myself, though slightly embarassed. Gurl, that is right on...all the way to the very last period. What a funny, but profound angle. :wink:

Hi Joyce! sometimes I try to bring a little humor especially to a serious topic such as this...glad to have made you laugh. I'm trying to respect the fact that everybody don't eat pork (or meat). But I don't want to be attacked for my answer to the question or my choice of diet. Or called a pig on the sly(AUM) cause I eat it. I tried to embrace not eating meat back in the day??? HONEY, I LIKED TO HAVE STARVED! There just wasn't much variety. And some of these people who USED to eat this stuff but converted? I'm pretty sure somewhere in their bodies there's still a microscopic trace of HOG THERE. Don't let me go CSI on'em! They gon' be standing at heaven's gate. God will probably be there with some golden clipboard going..."Hmmm? What is this?....You are a vegetarian now?...But, I see here that back between the years of 1966-1999 you enjoyed COLLARDS GREENS AND HAMHOCKS!!!???!!! (POW!! -lightning strike, fire and brimstone)...then a black spot where they were standing!) Chile, let me get off of here. I got a taste for a baked potato n' chives and a little hog on it! Cripy bacon bits!

:jumping: Gurl you got some kind of humor. You would make a great stand-up comedian. You do well in respecting others opinions and that's what I like about your responses here. I've read some of your other responses on other threads...you are very opinionated and that's a good thing, though not always popular (I can tell you that for myself) it's a very good thing. I try to add a little humor in some of my opinions to, but I ain' got it like you gurl, cuz some starts ta hating...know what I mean? :shades: Anyway....thanks for making my day gurl, cuz it sho got ruff up in heah on some of the other threads. :help:


"Hmmm? What is this?....You are a vegetarian now?...But, I see here that back between the years of 1966-1999 you enjoyed COLLARDS GREENS AND HAMHOCKS!!!???!!! (POW!! -lightning strike, fire and brimstone)...then a black spot where they were standing!)


Gurl, You are CRAZEEEE! :jumping:

!

I don't want to be attacked for my answer to the question or my choice of diet. Or called a pig on the sly(AUM) cause I eat it.

This is the first time I've seen your name in here. So why would you call me out sister? Insecurity bears its head. Somebody should've warned you :spin:

What heaven's gate are you referring to? You actually think when you die, a white man (or black for that matter) in a long white robe is going to be surrounded by clouds talking bout "Thou art been a good gurl sweetbrownsugar, I will now open thine heavenly clouded and pearly gates for thee to enter. Partake of the Divine chitlinz prepared by thine heavenly chef Gabriel. You can put thy gas mask on to rid thee of horrible odors coming from the kitchen. Watch your step, our lovely hogs go where they please. Welcome to Heaven." :puke2:

All jokes aside, as an adult no one should subscribe to the pearly gate theory (especially when there's no mention of it in the...umm...bible). I wonder how many people would recognize heaven if they could ever see it?

"AAUUMM"

P.S. Ultimately, the choices you make are your own, so my comments are NOT to be blamed for any guilt that is stirred by them. Hotep.

Hmm...brother AUM? So, you're saying these filthy pigs that we shouldn't eat because it is forbidden in the BIBLE will have a spot in HEAVEN? (I can see them now, wallowing in mud filled with Rotting stinking vegetables of all kinds even CENTURIES OLD COLLARDS! We already know how DAY OLD COLLARDS SMELL!) -That was just a joke. I don't know what heaven will look like and Redd Foxx could be standing at the gate in a long white robe for all I know but God Allows So Many Things To Happen Here On Earth. If he can allow something as filthy as pig in heaven I think I might be okay. If not, My scream will probably be the LOUDEST you hear coming out of the gates of 'ELL....I'll be the one going............AHHHHHHHHHH!!!! OKAY ALREADY!!!!!!! I'M SORRY FOR EATING THEM PORKCHOPS SMOTHERED IN GRAVY!!! THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!! HE SAID SURELY GOD DIDN'T SAY DON'T EAT PORK JUST LIKE HE TOLD EVE' AND 'NEM YOU DIDN'T SAY NOT TO BITE THE CRUNCHY APPLE!! PLEAZZZZEE! IF YOU LET ME OUT? I WON'T EAT PORK NO' MO! I PROMI....(wOOSH! ENGULFED IN FIRY FLAMES) -Let me stop. A sista ain't trying to play like that! It's a good thing this is the last page on this thread because this is a topic that could probably go on and ON! I noticed a lot of people have viewed this site? Who knows you probably convinced some to stop eating pork.....YOU ALMOST GOT ME WITH THAT ONE RESPONSE talking about Pigs Gobblin up dishwater, feces, roaches, carcassed.......And some people after reading this will probably still eat pork. All in All. To me? This thread served to be informative. I just tried to bring a few jokey-jokes in the end. Sorry for calling a brotha out. I'll see you around on other threads maybe. Peace.

The following lists show germs and parasites that are found in pork and some diseases caused by them. Many of these diseases are contagious, and some have proven fatal. Pigs are a natural carrier of diseases harmful to humans, and thus making it unfit for human consumption:

Trichinella spiralis (trichina worms): This is found in pigs, dogs, horses, seals, walrus, etc. It can be killed with high temperatures; it is a very dangerous parasite to man. The infected person shows no symptoms (only what appears it be rheumatism and muscular pain), recovers very slowly. Some even die; some reduced to permanent invalids. No one is immune from this disease and there is no cure. It is interesting to point out that the trichina worm is only found in Biblically unclean meat.

Taenia solium (pork tapeworm): Contracted from undercooked pork, or touching raw pork. The worm causes malnourishment, leading to anemia, diarrhea, extreme depression, melancholia, and digestive disturbances. Cysticercosis means that larva enters the bloodstream then settles down in one or more of the vital organs of the body, e.g., the brain, liver, lungs or spinal cord. They grow and encapsulate, inducing pressure to the system around, resulting in dangerous diseases (diarrhea, digestive disorder, anemia, chronic invalidation).

Round worms: Examples - Ascaris, which may lead to digestive disturbances, appendicitis, jaundice.

Hook worms: Examples: Ancylostomiasis, which may lead to anemia, edema, heart failure or retarded growth (mental and physical), tuberculosis, diarrhea and typhoid.

Schitosoma japonicum: bleeding, anemia and other syndromes, If ova are settled in the brain or spinal cord, paralysis and death may occur.

Paragomines westermaini: Infestation leading to bleeding of the lungs (endenve haemoptysis).

Paciolepsis buski: Digestive disturbances leading to persistent diarrhea and generalized edema.

Clonorchis sinensis: chlonorchiasis - obstructive jaundice, liver enlargement.

Metastrongylus apri: Causes bronchitis and abscess of the lungs.

Giganthorinchus gigas: Causes anemia and digestive disorders.

Balatitidium coli: Causes acute dysentery and general weakness.

These are some of the parasites and diseases found in pork and the skin of pigs. There is still no means of killing these parasites, in the tissues, nor has anyone found a method of expelling them, or even producing any specific treatment for the diseases...

Hmm...brother AUM? So, you're saying these filthy pigs that we shouldn't eat because it is forbidden in the BIBLE will have a spot in HEAVEN? (I can see them now, wallowing in mud filled with Rotting stinking vegetables of all kinds even CENTURIES OLD COLLARDS! We already know how DAY OLD COLLARDS SMELL!) -That was just a joke. I don't know what heaven will look like and Redd Foxx could be standing at the gate in a long white robe for all I know but God Allows So Many Things To Happen Here On Earth. If he can allow something as filthy as pig in heaven I think I might be okay. If not, My scream will probably be the LOUDEST you hear coming out of the gates of 'ELL....I'll be the one going............AHHHHHHHHHH!!!! OKAY ALREADY!!!!!!! I'M SORRY FOR EATING THEM PORKCHOPS SMOTHERED IN GRAVY!!! THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!! HE SAID SURELY GOD DIDN'T SAY DON'T EAT PORK JUST LIKE HE TOLD EVE' AND 'NEM YOU DIDN'T SAY NOT TO BITE THE CRUNCHY APPLE!! PLEAZZZZEE! IF YOU LET ME OUT? I WON'T EAT PORK NO' MO! I PROMI....(wOOSH! ENGULFED IN FIRY FLAMES) -Let me stop. A sista ain't trying to play like that! It's a good thing this is the last page on this thread because this is a topic that could probably go on and ON! I noticed a lot of people have viewed this site? Who knows you probably convinced some to stop eating pork.....YOU ALMOST GOT ME WITH THAT ONE RESPONSE talking about Pigs Gobblin up dishwater, feces, roaches, carcassed.......And some people after reading this will probably still eat pork. All in All. To me? This thread served to be informative. I just tried to bring a few jokey-jokes in the end. Sorry for calling a brotha out. I'll see you around on other threads maybe. Peace.

NO PROBLEM :love: You are COOL...What GOD will resist your sense of humor? Pork Chops and all! Holla at me, I'll be around here somewhere, trying to convert negroes into tree huggers...(Jokey joke) Peace.

Although most Christians either don’t know - or choose to ignore it - God strictly forbids the eating of swine flesh (pork) in the Holy Bible. This Biblical injunction and references to it can be found in the following verses: Leviticus 11:7-8; Deuteronomy 14:8; Isaiah 52:11, 65:4 and 66:17; and Ezekiel 4:14 and 44:31. And if you have a Bible that contains the Apocrypha, read 2nd Maccabees chapters 6 and 7 for a tragic and horrifying account of how those who refused to eat pork were tortured and killed by the invading Gentiles (or Europeans).

The very name of this foul animal contains an allusion to the prohibition of its flesh. In the Arabic language it is called “khinzir,” which is a combination of “khinz,” meaning “very foul,” and “ara,” meaning “I see.” So the Arabic word for swine – “khinzir” – means, “I see it very foul.” In India the swine is known by the Hindu name “su’ar,” which is pronounced like the English word “sewer.”

The flesh of swine has been proven to be injurious, not only to man’s physical health, but to his moral and spiritual health as well. The swine eats filth and takes delight in living in dirty places. It has indecent habits and possesses the evil trait of sex-perversion. Tapeworms, scrofula, cancer and encysted trichina (i.e., trichinosis) are known to be prevalent among pork-eating people. The following is a list of “foods” categorized as swine flesh and therefore forbidden by God in the Holy Bible:

bacon, baloney, barbecue ribs and/or shoulder, chitterlings (hog intestines), fatback, ham, ham hocks (hog knees), hoghead cheese, hog maws, mountain oysters (hog testicles), neckbones, pepperoni, pig ears, feet and tails, Polish sausage, pork loin, pork chops, pork skins, roast pork, salt pork, sausage and soucemeat (i.e., sow’s meat).

The flesh and blood of not only swine, but any dead animal as food is evidently injurious to man’s health. Most authorities recognize this fact on medicine. All foods that are inherently the products of violence (i.e., slaughtering and/or butchering) have a negative effect on the body’s metabolism. This is so because all flesh foods (beef, pork, lamb, fish and fowl) are the end result of murder...

Consider this profound poem re: eating pork by an anonymous author:

FROM HIS TAIL TO HIS SNOUT

He was made a scavenger, and God says he’s unclean,
and what else can we find so filthy and mean?...

Eat not his flesh, not touch his dead carcass,
for with sin and disease it surely will mark us...

Oh yes, dear people, God’s word, it is just,
still we eat the ol’ greaser, yes eat him we must...

The dirtiest of all beasts, we will not be without,
so we eat the slop-eater, from his tail to his snout...

We would be much better off if we obeyed God’s command,
and ate the vegetables, fruits, and grains of the land.

We pray long and loud, we jump and we shout,
still we eat the ol’ greaser from his tail to his snout...

How we sing, “Oh Happy Day,” and talk of love all divine,
then like vultures we feast on the dirty ol’ swine...

We might shun many ills and diseases, no doubt,
by discarding the hog from his tail to his snout...


AMEN!


I see many post about christians eating pork. For those that question this why is the rabbit, the camel, squirrel, possium, racoon, snake, crocodile or alligator not mentioned in the same breath? According to Leviticus 11 besides the pig, these other animals are mentioned as unclean and plenty of christians eat squirrel and rabbit especially but nothing is mentioned. Are we exposing obedience to Gods word or is this way for non-christians to question the validity of christianity? Science has proven the beef and lamb is higher in saturated fat and cholestoral which lead to heart attack is stroke and well as the fatty potions of pork. Black folks die of heart attack and stroke more so than tapeworms and trichinosis. Not to defend pork consumption, but maybe it's because of our American ancestry that we conjer bad images of the pig. Just think at one time we were made to gourmet butcher the animal for our conquerors and for our efforts we were given the renderings of what was left over. e.g. feet, tails, stomach(mawls), interestines(chitterlings), snouts, ears, chiccarones(skins), ankles and knees (hocks), head(jowls and brains) even the testicle(mountain oysters). This is called eating "low" on the hog. It is documented that Africans that were abducted spoke arabic as a second language in addition to tribal dialect and were practicing some from of Islam. Maybe this is so vivadly ingrained in our memory because this was a form of humiliation and dehumanization of us to our conquerors. That's the ticket. Going forward I believe if someone quotes scripture to expose a surposed disobedience the whole scripture must be presented not just what is debateable in man's view. Also please no one respond to this thread by explaining about the swine digested track, swine being possessed by demons or my favorite conspiracy theory of them all, how the white man evolved from pigs. Oh you haven't heard that one. Just live long enough I'm sure it'll get around to you.

Peace

Radical Faith

I see many post about Christians eating pork. For those that question this, why is the rabbit, the camel, squirrel, possium, racoon, snake, crocodile or alligator not mentioned in the same breath? According to Leviticus 11, besides the pig, these other animals are mentioned as unclean and plenty of Christians eat squirrel, and rabbit especially, but nothing is mentioned.Here is the entire chapter (Leviticus), under the heading, "Clean and Unclean Animals":

"The Lord told Moses and Aaron to say to the community of Israel:

You many eat any animal that has divided hoofs and chews the cud. But you must not eat animals such as camels, rock badgers and rabbits that chew the cud but don't have divided hoofs. And you must not eat pigs - they have divided hoofs, but don't chew the cud. All these animals are unclean, and you are forbidden to touch even their dead bodies.

You may eat anything that lives in water and has fins and scales. But it would be disgusting for you to eat anything else that lives in water, and you must not even touch their dead bodies.

Eagles, vultures, buzzards, crows, ostriches, hawks, sea gulls, owls, pelicans, storks, herons, hoopoes and bats are also disgusting, and you are forbidden to eat any of them. The only winged insects you may eat are locusts, grasshoppers and crickets. All other winged insects that crawl are too disgusting for you to eat.

Don't even touch the dead bodies of animals that have divided hoofs but do not chew the cud. And don't touch the dead bodies of animals that have paws. If you do so, you must wash your clothes, but you are still unclean until evening.

Moles, rats, mice and all kinds of lizards are unclean. Anyone who touches their dead bodies or anything touched by their dead bodies becomes unclean until evening. If something made of wood, cloth or leather touches one of their dead bodies, it must be washed, but it is still unclean until evening. If any one of these animals is found dead in a clay pot, the pot must be broken into pieces, and everything in it becomes unclean, If you pour water from this pot on any food, that food becomes unclean, and anything drinkable in the pot becomes unclean.

If the dead body of one of these animals touches anything else, including ovens and stoves, that thing becomes unclean and must be destroyed. A spring or a cistern where one of these dead animals is found is still clean, but anyone who touches the animal becomes unclean. If the dead body of one of these animals is found lying on seeds that have been set aside for planting, the seeds remain clean. But seeds that are soaking in water become unclean if the dead animal is found in the water.

If an animal that may be eaten happens to die, and you touch it, you become unclean until evening. If you eat any of its meat or carry its body away, you must wash your clothes, but you are still unclean until evening.

Don't eat any of those disgusting little creatures that crawl or walk close to the ground. If you eat any of them, you will become just as disgusting and unclean as they are. I am the Lord your God, and you must dedicate yourselves to me an be holy, just as I am holy. Don't become disgusting by eating any of these unclean creatures. I brought you out of Egypt so that I could be your God. Now you must become holy, because I am holy!

I have given these laws so that you will know what animals, birds, and fish are clean and may be eaten, and which ones are unclean and may not be eaten."

(Leviticus 11:1-47, Contemporary English Version of the Holy Bible.)

Are we exposing obedience to God's word, or is this the way for non-Christians to question the validity of Christianity?I would suggest to you that we are focusing on the DISobedience of God's word...

Science has proven that beef and lamb is higher in saturated fat and cholestoral, which leads to heart attacks and strokes, as well as the fatty potions of pork. Black folks die of heart attack and stroke more so than tapeworms and trichinosis. Not to defend pork consumption, but maybe it's because of our American ancestry that we conjure up bad images of the pig. Just think at one time we were made to gourmet-butcher the animal for our conquerors, and for our efforts we were given the renderings of what was left over, e.g. feet, tails, stomach (mawls), interestines (chitterlings), snouts, ears, chiccarones (skins), ankles and knees (hocks), head (jowls and brains)...even the testicles (mountain oysters). This is called eating "low" on the hog.

It is documented that Africans who were abducted spoke Arabic as a second language in addition to tribal dialect, and were practicing some form of Islam. Maybe this is so vividly ingrained in our memory because this was a form of humiliation and dehumanization of us to our conquerors. That's the ticket. Going forward, I believe if someone quotes scripture to expose a supposed disobedience, the whole scripture must be presented not just what is debatable in man's view.I agree. The following is from 2nd Maccabees 6 and 7, Books of the Apocrypha. It is a tragic and horrifying account of how those who refused to eat pork were tortured and killed by the invading Gentiles (or Europeans):

"Not long after this, the king sent an Athenian senator to compel the Jews to forsake the laws of their fathers and cease to live by the laws of God, and also to pollute the temple in Jerusalem and call it the temple of Olympian Zeus, and to call the one in Ger'izim the temple of Zeus the Friend of Strangers, as did the people who dwelt in that place.

Harsh and utterly grievous was the onslaught of evil. For the temple was filled with debauchery and reveling by the Gentiles, who dallied with harlots and had intercourse with women within the sacred precincts, and besides brought in things for sacrifice that were unfit. The altar was covered with abominable offerings that were forbidden by the laws. A man could neither keep the Sabbath, nor observe the feasts of his fathers, nor so much as confess himself to be a Jew.

On the monthly celebration of the king's birthday, the Jews were taken, under bitter constraint, to partake of the sacrifices; and when the feast of Diony'sus came, they were compelled to walk in the procession in honor of Diony'sus, wearing wreaths of ivy. At the suggestion of Ptolemy a decree was issued to the neighboring Greek cities, that they should adopt the same policy toward the Jews and make them partake of the sacrifices, and should slay those who did not choose to change over to Greek customs.

One could see, therefore, the misery that had come upon them. For example, two women were brought in for having circumcised their children. These women they publicly paraded about the city, with their babies hung at their breasts, then hurled them down headlong from the wall. Others who had assembled in the caves near by, to observe the seventh day secretly, were betrayed to Philip and were all burned together, because their piety kept them from defending themselves, in view of their regard for that most holy day.

Now I urge those who read this book not to be depressed by such calamities, but to recognize that these punishments were designed not to destroy, but to discipline our people. In fact, not to let the impious alone for long, but to punish them immediatetly, is a sign of great kindness. For in the case of the other nations the Lord waits patiently to punish them until they have reached the full measure of their sins; but he does not deal in this way with us in order that he may not take vengeance on us afterward when our sins have reached their height.

Therefore he never withdraws his mercy from us, though he disciplines us with calamities, he does not forsake his own people. Let what we have said serve as a reminder; we must go on briefly with the story.

Eleazar, one of the scribes in high position, a man now advanced in age and of noble presence, was being forced to open his mouth to eat swine's flesh. But he, welcoming death with honor rather than life with pollution, went up to the rack of his own accord, spitting out the flesh, as men ought to go who have the courage to refuse things that it is not right to taste, even for the natural love of life.

Those who were in charge of that unlawful sacrifice took the man aside, because of their long acquaintance with him, and privately urged him to bring food of his own providing, proper for him to use, and pretend that he was eating the flesh of the sacrificial meal which had been commanded by the king, so that by doing this he might be saved from death, and be treated kindly on account of his old friendship with them.

But making a high resolve worthy of his years and the dignity in his old age and the grey hairs, which he had reached with distinction and his excellent life even from childhood, moreover according to the holy God-given law, he declared himself quickly, telling them to send him to Hades. "Such pretence is not worthy of our time of life," he said, "lest many of the young should suppose that Eleazar, in his ninetieth year, has gone over to an alien religion, and through my pretence, for the sake of living a brief moment longer, they should be led astray because of me, while I defile and disgrace my old age. For even if for the present I should avoid the punishment of men, yet whether I live or die I shall not escape the hands of the Almighty. Therefore, by manfully giving up my life now, I will show myself worthy of my old age, and leave to the young a noble example of how to die a good death willingly and nobly for the revered and holy laws."

When he had said this, he went at once to the rack. And those who a little before had acted toward him with good will now changed to ill will, because the words he had uttered were in their opinion sheer madness. When he was about to die under the blows, he groaned aloud and said: "It is clear to the Lord in his holy knowledge that, though I might have been saved from life, I am enduring terrible suffering under this beating, but in my soul I am glad to suffer these things because I fear him.

So in this way he died, leaving in his death an example of nobility and a memorial of courage, not only to the young, but also to the great body of his nation.

It happened also that seven brothers and their mother were being compelled by the king, under whips and cords, to partake of the unlawful swine’s flesh. One of them, acting as their spokesman, said, “What do you intend to ask and learn from us? For we are ready to die rather than transgress the laws of our fathers.” The king fell into a rage, and gave orders that pans and caldrons be heated. These were heated immediately, and he commanded that the tongue of their spokesman be cut out, and that they cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of the brothers and the mother looked on.

When he was utterly helpless, the king ordered them to take him to the fire, still breathing, and to fry him in a pan. The smoke from the pan spread widely, but the brothers and their mother encouraged one another to die nobly, saying, “The Lord God is watching over us and in truth has compassion on us, as Moses declared in this song which bore witness against the people to their faces, when he asked, ‘And he will have compassion on his servants.’”

After the first brother had died in this way, they brought forward the second for their sport. They tore off the skin of his head with the hair, and asked him, "Will you eat rather than have your body punished limb by limb?" He replied in the language of his fathers, and said to them, "No." Therefore he in turn underwent tortures as the first brother had done. And when he was at his last breath, he said, "You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his laws."

After him, the third was the victim of their sport. When it was demanded, he quickly put out his tongue and courageously stretched forth his hands, and said nobly, "I got these from Heaven, and because of his laws I disdain them, and from him I hope to get them back again." As a result the king himself – and those with him – were astonished at the young man's spirit, for he regarded his sufferings as nothing.

When he too had died, they maltreated and tortured the fourth in the same way. And when he was near death, he said, "One cannot but choose to die at the hands of men and to cherish the hope that God gives of being raised again by him. But for you there will be no resurrection to life!"

Next they brought forward the fifth and maltreated him. But he looked at the and said, "Because you have authority among men, mortal though you are, you do what you please. But do not think that God has forsaken our people. Keep on, and see how his mighty power will torture you and your descendants!"

After him they brought forward the sixth. And when he was about to die, he said, "Do not deceive yourself in vain. For we are suffering these things on our own account, because of our sins against our own God. Therefore, astounding things have happened. But do not think that you will go unpunished for having tried to fight against God!"

The mother was especially admirable and worthy of honorable memory. Though she saw her seven sons perish within a single day, she bore it with good courage because of her hope in the Lord. She encouraged each of them in the language of their fathers. Filled with a noble spirit, she fired her woman's reasoning with a man's courage, and said to them, "I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of v you. Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws."

Antiochus felt that he was being treated with contempt, and he was suspicious of her reproachful tone. The youngest brother, being still alive, Antiochus not only appealed to him in words, but promised with oaths that he would make him rich and enviable if he would turn from the ways of his fathers, and that he would take him for his friend and entrust him with public affairs.

Since the young man would not listen to him at all, the king called the mother to him and urged her to advise the youth to save himself. After much urging on his part, she undertook to persuade her son. But, leaning close to him, she spoke in their native tongue as follows, deriding the cruel tyrant:

“My son, have pity on me. I carried you nine months in my womb, and nursed you for three years, and have reared you and brought you up to this point in your life, and have taken care of you. I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed Thus also mankind comes into being. Do not a fear this butcher, but prove worthy of your brothers. Accept death, so that in God's mercy I may get you back again with your brothers.” While she was still speaking, the young man said:

"What are you waiting for? I will not obey the king's command, but I obey the command of the law that was given to our fathers through Moses. But you who have contrived all sorts of evil against the Hebrews, will certainly not escape the hands of God.

For we are suffering because of our own sins, and if our living Lord is angry for a little while, to rebuke and discipline us, he will again be reconciled with his own servants. But you, unholy wretch, you most defiled of all men, do not be elated in vain and puffed up by uncertain hopes, when you raise your hand against the children of heaven. You have not yet escaped the judgment of the almighty, all-seeing God. For our brothers, after enduring a brief suffering, have drunk of ever-flowing life under God's covenant; but you, by the judgment of God, will receive just punishment for your arrogance.

I, like my brothers, give up body and life for the laws of our fathers, appealing to God to show mercy soon to our nation, and by afflictions and plagues to make you confess that He alone is God, and through me and my brothers to bring to an end the wrath of the mighty which has justly fallen on whole nation."

The king fell into a rage, and handled him worse than the others, being exasperated at his scorn. So he died in his integrity, putting his whole trust in the Lord. Last of all, the mother died, after her sons.

Let this be enough, then, about the eating of sacrifices and the extreme tortures."

(2 Maccabees 6, 7:1-42, Books of the Apocrypha)

Okay. ;)

...Joyce thinking back on how good dem ribs was yesterday that a friend brought to work as a gift of love. Oh how I like...the show of love. :rolling:

Here is the entire chapter (Leviticus), under the heading, "Clean and Unclean Animals":

"The Lord told Moses and Aaron to say to the community of Israel:

You many eat any animal that has divided hoofs and chews the cud. But you must not eat animals such as camels, rock badgers and rabbits that chew the cud but don't have divided hoofs. And you must not eat pigs - they have divided hoofs, but don't chew the cud. All these animals are unclean, and you are forbidden to touch even their dead bodies.

You may eat anything that lives in water and has fins and scales. But it would be disgusting for you to eat anything else that lives in water, and you must not even touch their dead bodies.

Eagles, vultures, buzzards, crows, ostriches, hawks, sea gulls, owls, pelicans, storks, herons, hoopoes and bats are also disgusting, and you are forbidden to eat any of them. The only winged insects you may eat are locusts, grasshoppers and crickets. All other winged insects that crawl are too disgusting for you to eat.

Don't even touch the dead bodies of animals that have divided hoofs but do not chew the cud. And don't touch the dead bodies of animals that have paws. If you do so, you must wash your clothes, but you are still unclean until evening.

Moles, rats, mice and all kinds of lizards are unclean. Anyone who touches their dead bodies or anything touched by their dead bodies becomes unclean until evening. If something made of wood, cloth or leather touches one of their dead bodies, it must be washed, but it is still unclean until evening. If any one of these animals is found dead in a clay pot, the pot must be broken into pieces, and everything in it becomes unclean, If you pour water from this pot on any food, that food becomes unclean, and anything drinkable in the pot becomes unclean.

If the dead body of one of these animals touches anything else, including ovens and stoves, that thing becomes unclean and must be destroyed. A spring or a cistern where one of these dead animals is found is still clean, but anyone who touches the animal becomes unclean. If the dead body of one of these animals is found lying on seeds that have been set aside for planting, the seeds remain clean. But seeds that are soaking in water become unclean if the dead animal is found in the water.

If an animal that may be eaten happens to die, and you touch it, you become unclean until evening. If you eat any of its meat or carry its body away, you must wash your clothes, but you are still unclean until evening.

Don't eat any of those disgusting little creatures that crawl or walk close to the ground. If you eat any of them, you will become just as disgusting and unclean as they are. I am the Lord your God, and you must dedicate yourselves to me an be holy, just as I am holy. Don't become disgusting by eating any of these unclean creatures. I brought you out of Egypt so that I could be your God. Now you must become holy, because I am holy!

I have given these laws so that you will know what animals, birds, and fish are clean and may be eaten, and which ones are unclean and may not be eaten."

(Leviticus 11:1-47, Contemporary English Version of the Holy Bible.)

I would suggest to you that we are focusing on the DISobedience of God's word...

Thank you for for posting this scripture so that all may see. I will not try to stay in religious context too long in my rebuttal, this forum is about food and dietary concerns. As I was saying, when examining this scripture based on common knowledge and personal experience we can rule out certain animals being on the dietary menu of christians; i.e. raptors or birds of prey, most carnivorous mammals that walk on four paws i.e. great cat and felines, bears and kanines, omnivores i.e. most rodents, castors and scent barring mammals. If we speak of obedience we must add the other known animals of christian indulgence. The scripture you have provided is clear yet many christian indulge in rabbit, squirrel, opossum, and raccoon dishes. Also many well known restaurants have added "gator nuggets" and "snake bites" to the menu. Are these animals not mentioned purposefully because the health risks associated with these other animals are not as significant as the one associated with pork? Well I must add rabbits, squirrels and racoons have been known to carry rabies in some cases. The snake of choice for consumption is venomous. To add another unmentioned reptile and "water dwelling creature" that christians eat are turtles(which are known carriers of salmonella). So my point is not only are these animal a detriment to the spirit but to the body as well as the swine. God does not have degrees of sin only man places severity on sin. In the eyes of God disobience is disobience. So as I stated before let us not be biased in our assessment of what is "acceptable obedience". In other words we can't say it's not God's will for us not to eat this particular animal without mentioning all the known unclean animals being consumed by God's people. Maybe the post should be titled "Why do most Christians eat animals deemed unclean by God in the Bible".


Peace

Radical Faith

Mystery Deaths in Southwest China Linked to Pigs

HONG KONG, July 26 (Reuters) - A mysterious disease that has killed 19 people in southwest China and left 61 ill is related to a bacteria that spreads among pigs, the Hong Kong Health Department said. Initial lab tests in mainland China suggest that the affected people were suffering from streptococcus suis infections related to the slaughtering or handling of infected pigs, the department said in a statement late on Monday after receiving an update from Chinese authorities. The bacteria is endemic in swine in most pig-rearing countries in the world but human infections are rare.

Initially, 20 farm workers suffered fever, nausea and haemorrhaging after handling sick or dead pigs and sheep in 12 towns and 15 villages in Sichuan province, state media said. More cases were reported as health workers combed villages for ill people. As of July 24, 80 people had been infected and 19 of those had died, the Hong Kong statement said.

Hong Kong has ordered hospitals to be on alert for people exhibiting symptoms such as fever and nausea and advised travelers to Sichuan to take precautions such as not touching dead animals and using mosquito repellant.

The government of Sichuan province earlier dismissed speculation that the deaths were caused by bird flu or Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), an assessment affirmed by the World Health Organization. Global health officials have been on high alert over a bird flu virus that has killed over 50 people in Asia since late 2003. SARS emerged in south China in 2002 and spread across 30 countries, infecting nearly 8,500 people and killing about 800.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/T341678.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

China Halts Pork Exports From Two Cities Amid Disease

July 26 (Bloomberg) - Chinese authorities halted exports of pork products from two cities in southwest China, where a disease linked to pigs has killed 19 people and left 61 others ill, the Hong Kong government said. Pork products from the cities of Ziyang and Neijiang in Sichuan province were suspended as a precautionary measure, the Hong Kong Health Department said in a statement late yesterday. China is the world's biggest pork producer.

Initial tests in China suggest the illness is streptococcus suis, which farmers and butchers probably contracted through open wounds during the slaughter or handling of infected pigs. Symptoms include acute fever, headaches and dizziness, according to China's health ministry. The more serious cases can cause meningitis and send a patient into a coma, it said. The World Health Organization offered assistance, which China has yet to accept, spokesman Bob Dietz said. The global agency hasn't confirmed whether the illness is streptococcus suis and has requested more information, he said. China reported the disease and responded appropriately, Dietz said.

China's health ministry said on its website it hasn't detected any human-to-human transmissions. China is trying to show a quicker response to public health threats after criticism of its handling of severe acute respiratory syndrome, which surfaced in southern China in 2002. The illness spread to 30 countries, killing about 800 people and infecting almost 8,500. The streptococcus suis infection in China may be the largest outbreak of its kind reported, Dietz said. That may be attributed to China's vastly improved response to possible outbreaks since SARS, he said. "The government threw money and resources at rebuilding the whole system,'' Dietz said.

Chinese authorities are stepping up surveillance of registered export pig farms, China's health ministry statement said. The government earlier balked at speculation the latest deaths in the southwest were caused by bird flu or SARS. The World Health Organization has been on alert over bird flu since late 2003. The illness has killed more than 50 people in Asia, particularly in Vietnam and Thailand. China has been trying to contain an outbreak of avian flu in the west, where thousands of migratory birds have died in recent weeks.

The Chinese government said it has reported the pig-related infections to the World Health Organization, the United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization, and the health authorities of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau. Residents in Sichuan province have been urged not to slaughter or process sick pigs to prevent the spread of the disease, the Beijing-based ministry said in a statement on its website yesterday. The disease can't be contracted from eating cooked pork.

The Chinese statement said those infected came from 75 villages in 40 townships. In Hong Kong, authorities sought to assure the public the disease in China didn't pose a threat to the city. Two supermarket chains in Hong Kong have stopped the sale of frozen pork from Sichuan province. The Hong Kong Health Department advised people to use protective gloves when coming in contact with pigs or raw pork, to wash their hands afterward, to clean and cover all wounds properly and to avoid injury while processing meat.

The last major pig-related epidemic occurred in Malaysia, where 265 people were infected with the Nipah virus from 1998 to 1999, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some 105 people died and almost a million pigs were slaughtered. The virus is capable of infecting different animals and is lethal to about 50 percent of human patients, causing encephalitis.

July 29, 2005

Infections from China pig disease jump to 152

HONG KONG (Reuters) - The number of people infected by what Chinese authorities believe is a pig-borne disease in Sichuan province has risen by 21 to 152, the Hong Kong Health Department said, citing information from the mainland government.

Concern in Hong Kong grew on Friday after the city's government said that a local man had recently contracted the same disease. The city of nearly seven million people on China's southern coast gets most of its food from the mainland. The 26-year-old interior decorator infected with streptococcus suis had not been to China recently, and had no contact with pigs or raw pork, the government said in a statement late on Thursday. He was admitted to hospital on July 5 and discharged on July 12. Authorities are investigating how he contracted the disease. Nine other people in Hong Kong have also contracted the same disease since May last year.

Chinese officials have insisted that the outbreak could be controlled, and agreed to a Hong Kong government request to send a team of experts to Sichuan province to join the investigation. China's Minister of Health, Gao Qiang, arrived in Sichuan on Thursday to inspect the prevention and control of the pig-borne epidemic, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

Authorities in Sichuan suspended exports of chilled and frozen pork to Hong Kong earlier this week as a precaution, but the city's government has insisted there is still no evidence to support a ban on pork imports from the region, angering many legislators. The victims in China were infected with the bacteria from slaughtering, handling or eating infected pigs, authorities have said. The official Xinhua News Agency said that 31 people had died from the disease while another 27 were in critical condition.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) said that clinical diagnosis of the disease in Sichuan seems to be consistent with past outbreaks, but admitted it was puzzled by the high number of people falling ill. Streptococcus suis, known in layman's terms as "swine flu," is endemic in swine in most pig-rearing countries in the world, but human infections have been relatively rare.

Although China's state media has said no human-to-human infections have been found in Sichuan, the death toll is considered unusually high. The disease is not known to have ever been passed between humans, but scientists fear it could mutate into a strain that could easily pass among people. Compounded with its deadliness, such a bug could unleash an epidemic, killing many people.

The high mortality rate and reports that many of the victims died within 24 hours of showing symptoms have led some experts to wonder if it is swine flu at all.

I'm getting the impression that the Chinese are quite disease ridden.
aren't they always pointed out to black people as the "model minority" that we should emulate?

The point is that the slaughtering and eating of swine flesh can cause a deadly virus, as was the case in 1918, when the ter