In a typical office somewhere in the USA there are some Black women and white women on the staff. Some are married and some are single. They tend to get along well, even to the point of sharing personal stories with each other and going out to lunch on occasion. Usually the stories they share aren't very personal and are just for conversation. Eventually, one of the white women who is single, feels comfortable enough to share that she likes Black men. The Black women in the group don't say anything to let her know how they feel about that, but when they are alone they talk among themselves about how much they dislike it.

One day at work, a new single Black man joins the staff and before any of the single Black women can meet him, the single white woman seizes the opportunity to introduce herself and they quickly make friends. Sometime later, while at lunch with her Black women friends, she giggles and tells them about him and claims that she's going to marry him one day because he makes a lot of money and he's cute. Still the Black women don't complain to her face, but do so vigorously behind her back.

Soon, it's obvious that the Black man and white woman are a couple. The Black women practically receive daily reports about their dates. She tells them that he's even gotten close to her young son from a previous marriage to a white guy. One day the white woman tells the Black women that now she sees what all the talk was about Black men's sexual abilities...and spreads her hands far apart as she's telling them how good he is in bed. One of the Black women, giggles, elbows one of her sisters, and says, "yeah, we know...hehehe!"

Do you see anything wrong with this picture?

Yes I do, NNQueen...the picture is wrong because its expressions are negative...it contains racial undertones that suggest - however subtly - that "white is right." Reminds me of the old "King Kong" movie...

Bottom line re: the first paragraph: Never share personal stories with whites...period.
Bottom line re: the second paragraph: The onus is on the sorry brother here. He succumbed to the advances of the white woman, and made her his choice instead of a sister there...
Bottom line re: the third paragraph: Ignorance is nondiscriminatory...all that begins wrong ends wrong...

Unhealthy sharing phenomenon, especially among black women, has spread rampantly.

We've been encouraged to gauge our reactions to situations in order to align ourselves with the "masters" and their benefactors. Hence, you have black women who will display acceptance of the white woman's commentary on black men, then scutter away to secretly share a disdain for the same white woman they just appeared to embrace.

Acts like this serve to allow a further weakening in the integrity of the foundation of our very being.

In other words, if ya sit there and take it, they gonna give ya more until there is nothing left, and if ya give it away they gonna use it to take more away from ya. :driveby:

CLOSE YA MOUF! :o :yawn:

I'm confused as to why the black female co-workers are upset. Are they offended because the they feel or perceive that the white female's comments are racist? If not would take care if she discussed her sexual "conquest" with a white man? Has this white lady chosen to single out these black females for friendships...in otherwords...what's her history with her felow white feamles con-worekrs? Finally, I believe that if the black ladies feel her comments are racist than they should simply disgust the matter with her privately. Also how many of the black women in question would make a move for a nice, attractive, white male started tomorrow? I am sorry black women shouldn't give over their power to black men and white women.!
Peace

Yes I do, NNQueen...the picture is wrong because its expressions are negative...it contains racial undertones that suggest - however subtly - that "white is right." Reminds me of the old "King Kong" movie...

Bottom line re: the first paragraph: Never share personal stories with whites...period.
Bottom line re: the second paragraph: The onus is on the sorry brother here. He succumbed to the advances of the white woman, and made her his choice instead of a sister there...
Bottom line re: the third paragraph: Ignorance is nondiscriminatory...all that begins wrong ends wrong...

:teach:

tell it, bro Aqil, tell it.

I could care less about white women going for black men. This is something that never bothered me at all because not ALL black men want white women. People get upset over something as trivial as this when the majority of people are involved with their own race.

I say this because I'm a Christian woman and have been taught to love ALL people.

Another thing is I value my privacy on the job. My personal life is MINE. And I have a strong personal policy which dictates no office romances. I have no desire to get involved with a man on my job and never have.

I've told some white women that they are "silly", especially when they have asked me IF it is true (you know, about a black man's prowess in bed). I tell them that I have not bedded ALL black men to know and I sure don't ask them about a white man's prowess in bed.

I'm for the truth and not myths. There's more to a man for me than the size of his penis. I tell white women that "men are men regardless of their skin color".

I've had positive collaborations with white women. I can say that one or two of them I'm close to, but I don't share personal details.

There are interracial couples on my job, mainly black women with white men. That's their choice and I would not dare say that a white man would be avoided by me. If I met him at my church, that's a different story, but I do not wish to have a on the job romance. A different story if my husband becomes employed at the same place I work.

By the way, the brother is a FREE man and has the right to be with whomever he wishes. How DARE we get upset because he chooses a white woman!

And one thing I've learned...never share your personal details with black, white, asian, or hispanic women. Black women are just as much as negative gossipers as any. I choose to go to work and give the employer the required hours...anything other than that belongs to me.

To quote Tom Joyner, "What happens on the ship, stays on the ship"

I find this subject so exhausting…and have mixed feelings…
My heart/soul struggles constantly with my logic, education and religion.
I often wonder how you get to the point where you no longer care that black men pursue white women because no matter how educated or enlightened I become…when I see black men with white women…there is a part of me that dies repeatedly…(just being honest)…

But then I attempt to console and convince myself that we are all of one race “the human race”…but I know I’m attempting to heal an un-healable wound. I do feel somewhat responsible as a black woman for this dilemma. I have two brothers, who in their youth were overtly chased by white females… “oh, the shenanigans they would pull” anyway, my brothers were interested and dated a couple of them but I gently and lovingly took time to communicate to them the following:

1) How painful it was for our mother although she never said a word.
2) The importance of family harmony and how this could be jeopardized by the introduction of such extreme cultural differences.
3) I asked them why they seem to find white women more enticing than black women…which often lead to materialistic reasons.
4) I educated them specifically on the importance of the black union and how black men and women need each other
5) I also discussed with them repeatedly how insulting it was to all of the black women in our family and how although they smiled in their faces…. There were always candid remarks of pain & concern, said later.
6) I wanted to know why they didn’t find… the one creature that birthed and nurtured them beautiful…they said dating white women was primarily materialistic initially but emotions became involved….which is how I think a lot of men are lured into these relationships.
7) I personally have been pursued a great deal by white men and have many of them in my family…however, I made a conscious decision to love a black man and to work to heal the black family circle…I love myself and my reflection…(the black man) I do not regret my choice. I love what is natural for me to love.
8) I took time to educate my brothers on Black History…which is something they weren’t getting in school…I am happy to say…they are both now married to beautiful, educated, successful, compassionate, loving black women, with beautiful black children…I’ve never seen them happier…and our family has never been stronger.

With that said…I have also experienced situations in the workplace “where the handsome, successful, educated black male arrives” and suddenly there’s an “Estrogen Explosion” that supercedes even racial boundaries. I always make it a personal goal to build alliances and open the lines of communication with any new brother or sister in the work place and do not allow division in any form to rear it’s ugly head. We as black women and men need each other. I strongly believe that if the lines of communication are open…there is understanding…which leaves no room for ambiguity…thus building strong friendships & relationships between us.

All she is really saying is that we sistahs have so much pride that we sit with our mouths closed to save face. I think she is saying "SPEAK UP" and let it be known that we are not ok with this. The white woman is very aggressive, but we as black women were taught as slaves to be quite and unseen. I tell my brothas everyday that it is not ok with me to see them turning their backs on us. I tell them that if they take one month to pick up every book they can to learn about the affects of slavery on OUR relationships that they might just stand up and take notice. Yes the get mad and tell me to shut up but still atleast I spoke up about it.

Do you see anything wrong with this picture?

Hmmmm Queenie ... i've read this and re-read it ... read the responses ... and am still as lost as the first time i read it.

I can't imagine such a thing happening to me. While i'm sure it probably happens to some Sisters, the way i figure it is, they allow it ... so who am i to tell them what they should be willing to tolerate.

I have worked in corporate america, state government, private owned businesses ... and as i think back over those years ... i can only remember two White women that i ever went to lunch with (in a personal, relaxed, by choice atmosphere). Both times before i was 21 years old. Both white females and i, were what i'd consider friends, which is why we went out together ... but neither ever talked to me about Black men. I always imagined that they wanted to be with a Black man (being so comfortable with a Black woman), but it never came up.

Ater 21 years of age, my employment was in the deep south and in spite of what we hear, things are quite segregated there. I ate lunch with Sisters, did everything with Sisters ... especially because of the racist discriminatory air that was so thick you could cut it with a knife, i never got too close to any of them (or let them get close to me).

No Sister ... i can't imagine this ... but if these Sisters allow such "carrying on" ... i aint mad at 'em ... i know i'd not be able to handle it. Not that i'd have a problem with any Brother choosing for himself whomever he pleases ... but she could not ... would not ... come up to me talking this foolishness just on GP ... nawww ... it aint happening.

But then ... i don't know ... guess one must live a little longer to see just what they will "tolerate" and what they won't.

When i was in the south, there was this gay White male that i worked with ... and he was so krazee ... oh my gosh ... he would come to work and talk about his new "husbands" everyday ... i was amazed to even be listening to a homosexual so willing to share his lifestyle, cause i never knew anyone that lived this way and found it all quite astonishing (he had 6 children and a wife) ... my silly self would even ask questions and stuff ... anywho ... i asked him one time if he had ever been with a Black man and he said ... "No Girl, Chocolate Breaks Me Out!" ... :lol:

:heart:

Destee

Oh yeah ... sorry for overlooking this part ...

:wave: Welcome Sister 1ascension :wave:

Thanks for joining us and sharing your views.

Please make yourself at home ... because you are.

:heart:

Destee

There most definitely is something wrong with that picture. First off, though the sistahs might have a problem with the couple that is another story; to each her/his own and everyone is entitled to their own preference.

However, the fact that they are silently caught up on Black men needing to stick to their own yet will sit and let the White woman continue on in that relationship on some shallowness and not correct her and stand up for the respect of that Black man is what I see is wrong.

How can you believe one thing but then stand on the sidelines and let this female think that it's kosher to marry the brotha because has money and is cute? If you're gunna do something do it right. Check her.

There most definitely is something wrong with that picture. First off, though the sistahs might have a problem with the couple that is another story; to each her/his own and everyone is entitled to their own preference.

However, the fact that they are silently caught up on Black men needing to stick to their own yet will sit and let the White woman continue on in that relationship on some shallowness and not correct her and stand up for the respect of that Black man is what I see is wrong.

How can you believe one thing but then stand on the sidelines and let this female think that it's kosher to marry the brotha because has money and is cute? If you're gunna do something do it right. Check her.


:lol: Ni Ain't Dat Da Truth! :lol:

I am not a fan of inter-racial dating, and am extremely supportive of Blacks marrying Black. However, people can date whom ever they wish. Indeed it is a waste of time worrying about who other people date. If a person is single...then worrying about someone else's dating choice, distracts from available people....if married, then it isn't your concern anyway. In a similar thread I gave an example of this: Over a year ago now, one of my wife's white friends came to visit. I was walking with my wife...daughter...and this white woman in the mall. Although I usually walk with my wife, I wasn't on this ocassion, because she was focusing on her friend (I was holding my daughter, and concentrating on her instead). To make a long story short, several sistas in the mall assumed I was with the white girl & not the black one, and I was getting dirty looks & comments. Sistas were so busy looking at me, they missed a lot of brothas who were walking the mall alone. As a result, these sistas where missing out on opportunities...looking over available brothers to focus on one who wasn't available (whether I was with the white woman or not). Going back to this case....the white woman wanted the black man because he had money & was cute. This is why most women want men, so there is no big deal there. The bottom line is that a good, single black man came into the presence of white & black women....the white woman went for it, while the sistas just looked. If you do that in life you lose out. Not just in love, but in everything.

I guess I must be "old fashion", but when nice looking brothers come to my job, I don't put myself on them. We women need to stop this chasing men, it makes us look "desperate". I don't care how FINE he looks, we need to stop looking at the exterior and see what's inside.

On my job there are a lot of good looking black men (and men of other races). I just speak to them and move on.

Black women like those Panafrica mentioned make me angry. Sisters, we got to stop acting like this. We do not OWN the black man. Some sisters act this way even if a fine brother is with a black woman.

They were so focused on Panafrica and the white woman that they could had caught the eyes of some brother who was single and looking.

A comment was made to me one day about a black woman and her white husband by another black woman. I told her that the sister has a right to be with whomever and why should it bother her? I told her that the woman was not with her man, so why should she be upset.

We waste so much valuable energy on things that are none of our business. I've never been upset to see a black man with a white woman. There's no law that forbids them the right to be together.

This might be off topic:

Personally. I think to each his own. I have dated white women before and I did not have a problem with it. I think love does not have a color. However, I think their is a psychological problem to the person who hates their race for frivolous reasons such as behavior needs to see a doctor. But with that said.

What advice does anyone who posted here have for the following situation:

I have had Black Women tell me that the clothes I wore were too white, that my name was white (Dale), that my music was white (Techno), and that everything to them that I enjoyed, Surfing etc was WHITE. These responses came from Sisters who were Ghetto, Educated, and all across the board; these examples were not from one type of black woman.

This was not my sole reason for dating white women, but it was my reason for not trying to date one Black Woman or any Woman period, I got sick of always being to white or not being WHITE enough for certain black women. So I started in the family business of womanizing and I was highly successful at it. While this was not a justification for my wrong actions, it was a contributing factor.

Does anyone have an unbiased answer for brothers and sisters like myself who have these problems?

This might be off topic:

Personally. I think to each his own. I have dated white women before and I did not have a problem with it. I think love does not have a color. However, I think their is a psychological problem to the person who hates their race for frivolous reasons such as behavior needs to see a doctor. But with that said.

What advice does anyone who posted here have for the following situation:

I have had Black Women tell me that the clothes I wore were too white, that my name was white (Dale), that my music was white (Techno), and that everything to them that I enjoyed, Surfing etc was WHITE. These responses came from Sisters who were Ghetto, Educated, and all across the board; these examples were not from one type of black woman.

This was not my sole reason for dating white women, but it was my reason for not trying to date one Black Woman or any Woman period, I got sick of always being to white or not being WHITE enough for certain black women. So I started in the family business of womanizing and I was highly successful at it. While this was not a justification for my wrong actions, it was a contributing factor.

Does anyone have an unbiased answer for brothers and sisters like myself who have these problems?


This indeed, is a real problem we as blacks have period. I know exactly what you are dealing with. Even some black children who do extremely well in school are termed as acting "white". And don't pronounce your words correctly or you might get accused of "trying to be white". I have often wondered why we equate certain things (dress, education, speech, etc.) with being "white".

Manasiac, all I can say is get the sifter out and sift through those type of sistahs and label them as my mother would have...educated fools. I suppose if you wore your pants too big and a XXXL shirt, drove a car whose rims cost more than the car did, fake bling, gold in your mouth when your teeth used to be, grabbed your penis in public as you walk or talk and said "Uh, uh, uh, is dat da baffroom ova deah?", then you would probably be "accepted" with the particular sistahs who said you act "white". But ask yourself, if these are the type of sistahs you want to be with anyway. These type of people do not even know who they are yet. Yet, they are trying to tell you what you should be and how you should act??? Scratch em' off your list honey. Life is just plain too short to being trying to fit into anyone "mode" of what is black because sometimes what one thinks is black is nothing but pure ignorance.

No one, I repeat, no one should pick a person according to the car they drive or the fashion of their clothes or the way they speak. You are still young yet. I feel very sure that one day, you will come across a sister (white or black) that will love you as you are. Meanwhile, just be in a man, what you want in a woman. When that woman sees you and you see her...watch how things click. :luv:


Joyce

P.S. This may happen when you're not expecting. :D

I am not a fan of inter-racial dating, and am extremely supportive of Blacks marrying Black. However, people can date whom ever they wish. Indeed it is a waste of time worrying about who other people date. If a person is single...then worrying about someone else's dating choice, distracts from available people....if married, then it isn't your concern anyway. In a similar thread I gave an example of this: Over a year ago now, one of my wife's white friends came to visit. I was walking with my wife...daughter...and this white woman in the mall. Although I usually walk with my wife, I wasn't on this ocassion, because she was focusing on her friend (I was holding my daughter, and concentrating on her instead). To make a long story short, several sistas in the mall assumed I was with the white girl & not the black one, and I was getting dirty looks & comments. Sistas were so busy looking at me, they missed a lot of brothas who were walking the mall alone. As a result, these sistas where missing out on opportunities...looking over available brothers to focus on one who wasn't available (whether I was with the white woman or not). Going back to this case....the white woman wanted the black man because he had money & was cute. This is why most women want men, so there is no big deal there. The bottom line is that a good, single black man came into the presence of white & black women....the white woman went for it, while the sistas just looked. If you do that in life you lose out. Not just in love, but in everything.


PanAfrica, I have noticed this too, with many sistahs. I don't know why some of us act like that. Maturity is definitly lacking for sure. Some sistahs won't even date brothas who have been with white women before. I find that most of the sistahs who are like this are the young ones. The old gals will simply give you that :flame: "what chu doing wit her" look. Especially if you live in the south as I do. Sometimes I have to call my own daughter down on a comment that she may make. She is so amazed at how many good looking brotha are seen with obese white women. While she's snickering, I tell her to shut up and be quiet before she embarasses me. She is not yet mature enough to understand that that is their business who they want to be with whether you understand it or not.

But even more than that, there is a growing trend among black men today. Many of them have forsaken "the art of pursuit". In a bragging tone, they say they don't have to because the girls are chasing them so hard. So guess who does most of the pursuing "white girls". Guess who doesn't pursue as much...black girls. One brotha told me all he have to do "literally" is snap his fingers (figuratively speaking) and they respond easily. From what I've seen personally, I believe him. White women tend to be more aggressive in going after a man than black women do. Even with my husband, they will flirt at a red traffic light or in a restaurant in a hot minute. But my husband knows how to handle his business and he does it well. He complains that white women think every black man wants them. He has no problem "surprising them".

I tell my sons that sometimes the woman that won't chase you, is the very woman FOR you. That's why I admire women like vj57 (read her post above). A sistah gotta have some dignity. I have several friends like her and before I got married I was like her. If a man think enough of you to pursue you, to me that's indicative of certain other qualities that he may posses that I like. If he won't pursue because he getting all the women he wants, then that would not be the type of man I want anyway because too many women may have been in his draws.

Now when I speak of pursue. I am not speaking of the type who confront in this matter...Hey baby, what lo name? I am speaking of the one's who are polite, innocent and respectful and want to take TIME to be a friend first. The ones who make you feel like a lady and not a piece of meat waiting to be brought.

So women like vj57 are jewels that men who don't pursue, miss out on. That's their lost...not hers. :look:

I have had Black Women tell me that the clothes I wore were too white, that my name was white (Dale), that my music was white (Techno), and that everything to them that I enjoyed, Surfing etc was WHITE. These responses came from Sisters who were Ghetto, Educated, and all across the board; these examples were not from one type of black woman.
This was not my sole reason for dating white women, but it was my reason for not trying to date one Black Woman or any Woman period, I got sick of always being to white or not being WHITE enough for certain black women. So I started in the family business of womanizing and I was highly successful at it. While this was not a justification for my wrong actions, it was a contributing factor.
Does anyone have an unbiased answer for brothers and sisters like myself who have these problems?

There is really no such thing as "acting white" or black for that matter. While there are certain behaviors identified with specific cultures. In general a person's taste in music, food, and hobbies are a reflection of the environment they grew up in. As a result you are free to dress like, or enjoy whatever activity you like. It is obvious that you know you are a black man, and no one can tell you differently. I can say though that you should not boycott a race of women (particularly your own), because of some ignorant comments made by a few. Just as you have met white women who accept your interest, if you look hard enough you'll find black women who share the same interest.

Now about your family business. ;) I have read a couple of statements from you brother Manasiac.....about your "womanizing", and not being able to be with a woman for more than 1 week. Manasiac you aren't womanizing, you are dating, which is your right. If you are single, you are free to date whomever you wish, and as many women as you like (this is the best way to find out the qualities you want in a mate). You are only wrong if you pledge yourself to someone, then see another behind their back. My only advice to you is not to make others pay for injustices done to you in the past. This not only is unfair to a innocent woman who has done no harm to you.....it also sabotages your own happiness.

I guess I must be "old fashion", but when nice looking brothers come to my job, I don't put myself on them. We women need to stop this chasing men, it makes us look "desperate". I don't care how FINE he looks, we need to stop looking at the exterior and see what's inside.

I fully understand what you are saying here VJ57. What I meant though is not pushing up on a man, but letting a man know you are interested......giving him signs so to speak. Believe it or not, a lot of men are afraid of rejection. Many men will not approach a woman unless she gives a sign that his advance will be "positively" received. :rolling:

Well Pan I got to tell the truth and shame the devil, it be a lil more than dating. But I have slowed down I am not dating or talking to any females right now. I am trying to focus on making myself a better person so that I will no longer have to point the finger at others. This will also facitilate an envrioment for and if it will ever happen a good woman.

I hear where you're coming from and I see what you're saying. Sometimes we get judged so unfairly and that in turn persuades us to do the wrong things.

Dating outside of your race is up to you. I'm one of the sisters who don't care what ethnicity the female in which you find love is.

Sistas have to realize that these men are their own man and not ours, not ours to rule over and dictate their actions. Instead of getting all hostile when he shows up with a White woman why don't you be happy for him. If you're really ya brothers keeper you'd be happy that he's happy and show him that you are the exception to the stereotype. Don't show ya behind over business that ain't yours. Your attitude does nothing for anyone.

As for the family business, break the chains. You have to be the change you hope to see in order to find sincerity in another person. You don't alieviate the problem by becoming one. I say stay alone until you can treat a woman like she should be treated.

You're not going to find a real woman by treating them them like objects. I can guarantee you a real woman won't give you the time of day behaving like that. She respects herself too much.

you might want to scroll up a few reponses about 3 back. You missed something I said Madamoiselle.

Manasiac, all I can say is get the sifter out and sift through those type of sistahs and label them as my mother would have...educated fools. I suppose if you wore your pants too big and a XXXL shirt, drove a car whose rims cost more than the car did, fake bling, gold in your mouth when your teeth used to be, grabbed your penis in public as you walk or talk and said "Uh, uh, uh, is dat da baffroom ova deah?", then you would probably be "accepted" with the particular sistahs who said you act "white". But ask yourself, if these are the type of sistahs you want to be with anyway. These type of people do not even know who they are yet. Yet, they are trying to tell you what you should be and how you should act??? Scratch em' off your list honey. Life is just plain too short to being trying to fit into anyone "mode" of what is black because sometimes what one thinks is black is nothing but pure ignorance.

Sister Joyce,

How do we know that Brothers wearing loose-fitted clothing, driving accessorized automobiles, donning costume jewelry and decorated grills, with a fondness for touching themselves, who stutter, and speak Black American English don't know themselves? And what is your definition of education?

The point doesn't speak directly to Sister NNQueen's post, but clearly identifying those things that constitute Black Cultures is a necessary correlative to many issues confronting Africans, especially those who've been in direct and consistent contact with Europeans. There is such a thing as Black American Culture, and the IceCold act is part. It is a living, breathing retelling and response to our experience here, and it doesn't desist just because we find one or many of its ever-evolving attributes unflattering.

having :read: read the statements here and see the :fight: I have to :lol: and :roll: because it seems people we are forgeting one important thing :idea: . Dont place the race card within relationships because it's a fact that nobody owns another race or theis own race. We date who we choose to date or marry be it out of love or to gain status! You can point a finger and say the men are lost that's why they have white women...LOL
Bottom line sisters are doing it to and I for one aint mad at them about it. Now yes I choose not to date white women but if another brother does fine he has his reasons, heck the black women might be better off having him go that road.
the clothes dont make the man the man makes the clothes.... ex. Master P the brother derssed in baggy clothes, his mouth is filled to the brim in gold and diamonds and he is not the best spoke person in the state of anywhere! But he is a business man so the clothes didnt make him not a valable asset to his sisters.
hey if we all came from the black race then white people are just a lighter shade, so no hate here.

First of all, I don't think it's fair to be upset at the situation. Like panafrica stated earlier, if you snooze...you lose. Who's to say, if one of the sistas had the courage to come up to him, then they might be dating him instead. The white girl took the initiative and went for it and she came away with a man. Now, her reasons for dating him (money and looks) are shallow, but realistically that's life. Most women as stated do the same thing. I have been with women of different races and gotten dirty looks from black women. None of the women that I've been with were white, but Asian or Hispanic. Sistas would give the girl I was with dirty looks also. What's up with that? No one has to date a particular race. If I haven't found a black woman that makes me happy or fits my needs then why are you mad? I should be the one pissed. I think it's stupid also when black women say that black men date outside their race because they can't handle "a real woman". What's that supposed to mean, that since you're black...your a real woman and other races aren't? I think these women should look long and hard at themselves and see why the can't find a man. Granted there are some black men that do date exclusively outside their race, and I think that's a mental issue on their part. Just because one chooses to see beauty in all women doesn't make it wrong.

Brothers Changes, Python and Kente417mojo, thank you for the enlightening opinions as they are most appreciated coming from Black men who I have developed a high regard for.

Brother Kente, I found your comments to be like a splash of cold water in my face. Hmmmm...has me thinking. True, some sisters have issues they need to get past as do some brothers when it comes to this topic.

In the bigger scheme of things racism has done a number on many of us and you're right, if sisters don't like it when brothers date/marry outside of their race, we have to make sure we're not doing anything to contribute to that before we complain.

I'm not a perfect woman, and as a Black woman, I dn't think that I have traits or characteristics that would give Black men reasons for preferring a woman from another race over me. I'm not going to compete with them, I'm simply going to be myself and the best person I can be because that's how it should be.

If a white woman or any other woman gets a jump start ahead of me, then the way I look at it, it wasn't meant for me to begin with. As a spiritual person, I firmly believe that we can draw people to us based on what we pray for and how we treat them. Simply saying that you want a good man and treating men like dawgs, is nothing more than an accident waiting to happen.

We must first be true to ourselves and treat people as we want to be treated. Consistency between what's in our hearts and what we do, is important.

Each time discussion gets deep like this, I always learn something new and helpful. Thank you all for your input.

Queenie :spinstar:

No problem Queen, there have been so many times when you dumped a whole bucket of ice cold water on my face. I love reading what you post. This is a subject that I like to speak on because I love black women as well as all women. I do think that black women are the ideal mates for the black man, but I have met so many beautiful women of different races that I can't imagine ruling them out simply because they are not black. :heart:

Sister Joyce,

How do we know that Brothers wearing loose-fitted clothing, driving accessorized automobiles, donning costume jewelry and decorated grills, with a fondness for touching themselves, who stutter, and speak Black American English don't know themselves? And what is your definition of education?

The point doesn't speak directly to Sister NNQueen's post, but clearly identifying those things that constitute Black Cultures is a necessary correlative to many issues confronting Africans, especially those who've been in direct and consistent contact with Europeans. There is such a thing as Black American Culture, and the IceCold act is part. It is a living, breathing retelling and response to our experience here, and it doesn't desist just because we find one or many of its ever-evolving attributes unflattering.

Changes-Changes, I believe you may have misunderstood me. I was responding to Bro. Man here below:

This might be off topic:

Personally. I think to each his own. I have dated white women before and I did not have a problem with it. I think love does not have a color. However, I think their is a psychological problem to the person who hates their race for frivolous reasons such as behavior needs to see a doctor. But with that said.

What advice does anyone who posted here have for the following situation:

I have had Black Women tell me that the clothes I wore were too white, that my name was white (Dale), that my music was white (Techno), and that everything to them that I enjoyed, Surfing etc was WHITE. These responses came from Sisters who were Ghetto, Educated, and all across the board; these examples were not from one type of black woman.

This was not my sole reason for dating white women, but it was my reason for not trying to date one Black Woman or any Woman period, I got sick of always being to white or not being WHITE enough for certain black women. So I started in the family business of womanizing and I was highly successful at it. While this was not a justification for my wrong actions, it was a contributing factor.

Does anyone have an unbiased answer for brothers and sisters like myself who have these problems?


Changes...when I said:But ask yourself, if these are the type of sistahs you want to be with anyway. These type of people do not even know who they are yet.

I was referring to the sistahs who accused Mansiac of acting "white". I have an 18 year old son who is a very intelligent young man...a top class music producer (purchased a new mustang with his own money) and writer and an 21 year who has published his first book of fiction. They both dress in the way I described above (without the gold in the mouth and no grabbing of the private parts...sorry I don't like neither) and I have no prob with that as long as their pants do not fall to point where gays will get stirred. :grin: The younger son is already beginning to grow out of this phase of dressing and gravitate (no thanks to me) towards the neater fashions...nice baggy jeans (that fit around the waist) with shirts that go in and a pair of expensive eyewear. I think it's because his physique is developing beautifully and he wants to show it off. Ain nothing wrong with that because it certainly won't be seen under all of those huge clothes. :lol: So to diss people who dress like that would be to diss my own sons. However, it is not fair to label black people who don't dress like that or don't listen to rap but country music as (my niece loves this stuff - country music but not rap - she's 22) people who act "white". That's all I was saying.

Joyce

Nice Responses yall, lets keep em coming.

Thank you for the clarification, Sister Joyce.

I used this thread as an oppurtunity to address the ever-recurrent issue, "what is Black? And when I start to move away from those things that define Black, am I that much less Black as a result?"

For all groups, ethnic or otherwise, there are a number of culture artifacts which remain so uncannily consistant from one extreme to another that these things can be said to define the group and its constituents. That so many Black Americans, for instance, speak, walk, dance, sing, prepare meals, dress themselves, and even think so simillarly can't be regarded as coincidence. When one mimics the rituals and puts into practice the value system of such a group, one can be said to be doing, "A Black Thang," for instance. It's true for whites, far-east Asians, Jews, boy scouts, politicians, and The Destee.com Family just the same. I wish for a more rigorous, honest, careful approach to the issue of our African Cultural Definitions. Otherwise, we run the risk of invalidating a very real, dynamic, and enlightening part of ourselves.

Thank you for the discussion, Sister.

Hi MANASIAC, I read that Wesley Snipes and Dennis Rodman had a similar problem. Though it was not because of the way they dressed or their activities, but the fact that alot of black women thought that they were not good looking enough. So they got the attention they needed from white women who I guess accepted them for who they were. Then when they started making cash they suddenly started getting the attention from the sistas, but by that time they were already set in their ways with white women. Also, another brotha had a post in this thread similar to yours. I forgot who it was though. It was at the beginning of the replies. Please people, don't think this is my view. I just wanted to post this because it was on my mind after I read this brothas post. It's not my personal view and I don't think all sistas are this shallow.

As far as an unbiased answer...man I think you just have to do what you're comfortable with. Like you said...it was a contributing factor in your decision to date white women. It was your experiences so no one can fault that decision. All I can say is that all black women aren't like that and some do appreciate diversity in a man. Hopefully you will come across one brotha. :peace:

Why does it seem that some Black people have the ability not to put emphasis on race when it comes to relationships and others can't think of it any other way?

I consider myself to be a reasonably progressive thinking person. I try hard not to be critical of others or their beliefs. I try to look at white people as just people and not harbor any grudges caused by our mutual past history.

There are some white people that I don't mind being around and who I think politely of. I've even seen a few white men that I thought were "cute" but that's as far as it goes. No further than a thought. Still I have a little....okay a lot...of difficulty whenever I see Black/white couples. Why? I mean, I'm not the staring down type, and I'm never rude or anything, but I'll admit that I do feel this little twinge in the pit of my stomach at first glance.

How does one get PAST the past to reach a point where race doesn't matter anymore and seeing people together is not always a constant reminder of their racial differences?

How do or did people who have this ability do it?

Queenie :spinstar:

I feel you brother K. I usually do not worry too much about stuff like that. Because after they get past the WHITE part, they usually Say I HAVE TOO MANY FELONIES and I am too ghetto this, and my hair is too long that, LOL. However, like I said in a previous response, I am getting myself right for the right woman. I know I have some issues to workout so that I can stop pointing fingers. Ya dig? I do not foresee myself getting married or having children, and that is because I prefer financial sovereignty. However, if the proper woman comes, I will be ready so I can get right.

So right now I have just been focusing on getting myself together. Another point. White Women have said the same thing too that I mentioned in the first post and so have other races. Thus, I know it is not a problem just within the black community and it was not my reason for dating outside my race.

Thanx for reading.

My desire to spread unity throughout the African race in America & throughout the Diaspora is too engraved within, for me to ever support dating outside the black race. However after years of literally boiling at the site of black/white couples, I have finally come to the conclusion that inter-racial dating is a natural by-product of an intergrated society. It can't be avoided, so there is no point in getting upset. I just hope that those of us who choice to date outside the black race do so because they love that person, and not because they feel their own counterpart (the black male/female) isn't good enough. If you think you can't find a good black man/woman......then you haven't looked hard enough. However, if you just happened to fall in love with a person of another race, well.......what can I say? I wish you happiness.

Thank you for the clarification, Sister Joyce.

I used this thread as an oppurtunity to address the ever-recurrent issue, "what is Black? And when I start to move away from those things that define Black, am I that much less Black as a result?"

For all groups, ethnic or otherwise, there are a number of culture artifacts which remain so uncannily consistant from one extreme to another that these things can be said to define the group and its constituents. That so many Black Americans, for instance, speak, walk, dance, sing, prepare meals, dress themselves, and even think so simillarly can't be regarded as coincidence. When one mimics the rituals and puts into practice the value system of such a group, one can be said to be doing, "A Black Thang," for instance. It's true for whites, far-east Asians, Jews, boy scouts, politicians, and The Destee.com Family just the same. I wish for a more rigorous, honest, careful approach to the issue of our African Cultural Definitions. Otherwise, we run the risk of invalidating a very real, dynamic, and enlightening part of ourselves.

Thank you for the discussion, Sister.


I feel you brotha. You have so much passion and insight. In discussing this, let me ask you what you think about or maybe this should be the start of a new thread...Question...

Do you believe our cultural definitions have been mixed down due to integration? I see many whites imitating what they think is "black". For example, many of them will call each other the N word...just to be cool. I never thought I would live in a day where white girls wish they were black...yet I've seen this on many occasions...until they go to application for a job. Then they pick up that "white priveilege thang" quick! :rolling:

Tell you what, don't answer that here because that is way off subject. If you start a thread on it however, I will discuss wit ya. :peace:

Joyce

I enjoy the input to this topic. Everyone has their opinions and they are respected even if there may be some disagreement. At least we can collaborate without getting angry and confrontational.

I believe black women will increasingly need to grasp the fact that black men don't owe them and they do not owe black men.

Black women shouldn't be about the business of shaming black men or using history on black men to prevernt them from dating non-black women.

Truthfully, black women should be about the business of dating non-black men themselves. Competing is generally a good thing. Being with black men out of a sense of racial loyal went out in my grandmother's dad. Unforunately, black women seem to be one of the last groups of people to realize this.(for good reasons fo course). But we have to spread our wings more often.

I believe black women will increasingly need to grasp the fact that black men don't owe them and they do not owe black men.

Black women shouldn't be about the business of shaming black men or using history on black men to prevernt them from dating non-black women.

Truthfully, black women should be about the business of dating non-black men themselves. Competing is generally a good thing. Being with black men out of a sense of racial loyal went out in my grandmother's dad. Unforunately, black women seem to be one of the last groups of people to realize this.(for good reasons fo course). But we have to spread our wings more often.


It's funny, I don't recall Jewish women encouraging each other to date Gentiles. But for all the black women or men that wanna "spread" their wings. Good luck! you will need it!

Hi MANASIAC, I read that Wesley Snipes and Dennis Rodman had a similar problem. Though it was not because of the way they dressed or their activities, but the fact that alot of black women thought that they were not good looking enough. So they got the attention they needed from white women who I guess accepted them for who they were. Then when they started making cash they suddenly started getting the attention from the sistas, but by that time they were already set in their ways with white women. Also, another brotha had a post in this thread similar to yours. I forgot who it was though. It was at the beginning of the replies. Please people, don't think this is my view. I just wanted to post this because it was on my mind after I read this brothas post. It's not my personal view and I don't think all sistas are this shallow.

As far as an unbiased answer...man I think you just have to do what you're comfortable with. Like you said...it was a contributing factor in your decision to date white women. It was your experiences so no one can fault that decision. All I can say is that all black women aren't like that and some do appreciate diversity in a man. Hopefully you will come across one brotha. :peace:

You said:...I read that Wesley Snipes and Dennis Rodman had a similar problem. Though it was not because of the way they dressed or their activities, but the fact that alot of black women thought that they were not good looking enough. So they got the attention they needed from white women who I guess accepted them for who they were.

This is so on point. I know of several brothas, who like Wesley Snipes, are not good looking. But honey, these brothas went on to do well in life financially. One of them became chief supervisor of a platoon of air force jet mechanics in a foreign country. He told me that he had been hurt by so many sistahs that if he ever dated one again, she would have to have more than twice the money he has. Yet, if she is white, she does not have to meet any requirements at all because he knows that they are not after his money but after his heart. He doesn't mind having black sistahs as friends, but he will never go beyond that again, he said. I have to admit that many sistahs do place a great emphasis on looks, thus many have missed discovering a diamond in the ruff.



J

It's funny, I don't recall Jewish women encouraging each other to date Gentiles. But for all the black women or men that wanna "spread" their wings. Good luck! you will need it!

My comment wasn't an act of encouragement. I think it's based on an increasing reality. I am not sure why you would think otherwise. Jewish americans marry gentiles at a very high rate. Peace!

My comment wasn't an act of encouragement. I think it's based on an increasing reality. I am not sure why you would think otherwise. Jewish americans marry gentiles at a very high rate. Peace!


Your comment was and is an act of encouragement. If you say that black women should be about the business of going with non-black men, what else would you call it? an endorsement? Let's not split hairs here.

As for accepting the false and unfounded belief that this is based on an increasing reality... Yeah right. Reality is what you tell yourself it is.

Jewish women are not marrying non jewish men at a high rate. As a matter Jewish women are making concerted efforts to seek out Jewish men to marry

Especially in the Jewish Diaspora

As has been stated in other threads, we as a people have other options than mating outside our own race. We just need the conciousness to see what is around us.

Hetep

Joyce, there is a story that I wish to share that was in one of Michel Baisden's books Why Do Men Cheat- I think. And just to put a counter to Black women just like looks. This was related by a niece of a woman, Mr Baisden interviewed.The woman told him a young man was interested in her aunt and the man was not rich, but a go getter who did work two jobs and saved his money, her aunt reluctantly(because he was not good looking) went out with him, but brought her friend along to chaperone-which the young man agreed to. The date went off without a hitch and everybody did mostly enjoyed themselves but her aunt was not interested in the young man and her friend asked her aunt could she go out with the man and the auntr said go ahead. The friend dated the guy for awhile and later married him. The young man proceeded to own several businesses in Kansas City MO (one was a barbecue joint and a cleaners(I think)-The man and the wife(the aunt's friend) owned one of the largest homes in the area and owned other property, too and the man and his wife went on several trips together within and out of the country-her aunt? Still unmarried and poor and still living in the square house that she remembered her in.

Joyce, there is a story that I wish to share that was in one of Michel Baisden's books Why Do Men Cheat- I think. And just to put a counter to Black women just like looks. This was related by a niece of a woman, Mr Baisden interviewed.The woman told him a young man was interested in her aunt and the man was not rich, but a go getter who did work two jobs and saved his money, her aunt reluctantly(because he was not good looking) went out with him, but brought her friend along to chaperone-which the young man agreed to. The date went off without a hitch and everybody did mostly enjoyed themselves but her aunt was not interested in the young man and her friend asked her aunt could she go out with the man and the auntr said go ahead. The friend dated the guy for awhile and later married him. The young man proceeded to own several businesses in Kansas City MO (one was a barbecue joint and a cleaners(I think)-The man and the wife(the aunt's friend) owned one of the largest homes in the area and owned other property, too and the man and his wife went on several trips together within and out of the country-her aunt? Still unmarried and poor and still living in the square house that she remembered her in.

WoW! This is like reading a fairy tale :spin: with a good ending for the woman who married this "diamond in the ruff" and a nightmare for the woman who didn't marry him. :crying:

The man I was referring to in the earlier post was a part-time co-worker with me. We got to be very good friends. However, none of the sistahs would even give him the time of day. Yaphet, this guy was very unattractive. He looked like some bad leftovers, but let me tell you something. The whole time he worked with me at this superstore, he never discussed what he did for a living until the day he put in his 2 week resignation. He worked because he wanted to...not because he had to. He simply loved to stay busy. He told me that he had gotten a contract overseas to work as chief supervisor over a staff of jet mechanics. He was retired military and had tons of experience. When some of the sistahs found out who he actually was, they was all up in his face...but it was too late because a white sistah had already planted her stake honey. He sold his beautiful home (in a very nice gated community) and took her with him. Unfortunately, he has been hurt so badly that he will not be committing to her in marriage. He says they have an "understanding".

Old proverb:
Everything that shines ain't gold.

Joyce for me on a personal level. I believe generation do have something to do with it too. I am 46 now-when I was younger, I went out with several young women-hardly any of them was interested in me (okay not a lot of them-but a decent number). In my experiences with those young women-a funny thing, their mothers LIKED me better than their daughters did(perhaps, the mothers see by character more than looks(and more so when THEY were younger) and almost to a mom,I was better than the previous young men their daughters dated and really wanted their daughters to date someone like me or even with DECENT characteristics.

Joyce for me on a personal level. I believe generation do have something to do with it too. I am 46 now-when I was younger, I went out with several young women-hardly any of them was interested in me (okay not a lot of them-but a decent number). In my experiences with those young women-a funny thing, their mothers LIKED me better than their daughters did(perhaps, the mothers see by character more than looks(and more so when THEY were younger) and almost to a mom,I was better than the previous young men their daughters dated and really wanted their daughters to date someone like me or even with DECENT characteristics.


So how did things turn out with you. Did you marry a sistah?

Yup, celebrated 16 years this past Friday-May 14.

Yup, celebrated 16 years this past Friday-May 14.

Hey! That's wonderful! I'm glad you didn't give up on the sistahs.

I was in a similar situation in college. I had a white, female friend. She lived down the hall from me. We were hanging out one day when she felt she just had to share with me" Oh, I just LOVE Black boys." I smiled and said, "Yeah? I do, too." But I was in turmoil. How could she sit in my face, a Black woman, and tell me that she, a White woman, was selecting men from the same pool (which, at that school, was limited to begin with.). And I had to think about it: was she trying to rile me, or did she feel like we were friendly enough for her to share it with me? I decided it was the latter. I never quite LOVED inter-racial relationships, but I take more of a "whatever floats your boat" approach. Why? Because no matter how I feel about it, I can not change how someone else feels about it. Also, whether it's a group of white woman, Black women, Chinese women.....: what goes on in the bedroom stays in the bedroom.

Amen Toylin.

Very true Toylin. That's what people don't realize....you can't change someone's feelings. What is a person to do if they like another race? Should they have to tip-toe around everyone else because they have a problem with it? I think not. Like so many other issues in this world, if you have a problem with it, don't be involved in it in your everyday life. Don't try to dissrupt everyone elses.

Amen Kente.

PanAfrica, I have noticed this too, with many sistahs. I don't know why some of us act like that. Maturity is definitly lacking for sure. Some sistahs won't even date brothas who have been with white women before. I find that most of the sistahs who are like this are the young ones. The old gals will simply give you that :flame: "what chu doing wit her" look. Especially if you live in the south as I do. Sometimes I have to call my own daughter down on a comment that she may make. She is so amazed at how many good looking brotha are seen with obese white women. While she's snickering, I tell her to shut up and be quiet before she embarasses me. She is not yet mature enough to understand that that is their business who they want to be with whether you understand it or not.

But even more than that, there is a growing trend among black men today. Many of them have forsaken "the art of pursuit". In a bragging tone, they say they don't have to because the girls are chasing them so hard. So guess who does most of the pursuing "white girls". Guess who doesn't pursue as much...black girls. One brotha told me all he have to do "literally" is snap his fingers (figuratively speaking) and they respond easily. From what I've seen personally, I believe him. White women tend to be more aggressive in going after a man than black women do. Even with my husband, they will flirt at a red traffic light or in a restaurant in a hot minute. But my husband knows how to handle his business and he does it well. He complains that white women think every black man wants them. He has no problem "surprising them".

I tell my sons that sometimes the woman that won't chase you, is the very woman FOR you. That's why I admire women like vj57 (read her post above). A sistah gotta have some dignity. I have several friends like her and before I got married I was like her. If a man think enough of you to pursue you, to me that's indicative of certain other qualities that he may posses that I like. If he won't pursue because he getting all the women he wants, then that would not be the type of man I want anyway because too many women may have been in his draws.

Now when I speak of pursue. I am not speaking of the type who confront in this matter...Hey baby, what lo name? I am speaking of the one's who are polite, innocent and respectful and want to take TIME to be a friend first. The ones who make you feel like a lady and not a piece of meat waiting to be brought.

So women like vj57 are jewels that men who don't pursue, miss out on. That's their lost...not hers. :look:

I agree. I have never chased and believe the opposite is true. Those men who know I am worthy will come to me, those who just want a romp will get dissed repeatidly. Its about respect and about self respect. So true, the ones who don chase are the ones for you, most often than not.

Lady

I agree. I have never chased and believe the opposite is true. Those men who know I am worthy will come to me, those who just want a romp will get dissed repeatidly. Its about respect and about self respect. So true, the ones who don chase are the ones for you, most often than not.

Lady


And some women just make a bad choice in men, but can't admit it or identify the root causes. Panafrica made a very eloquent point about her initial post.

I want to thank everyone that responded to this thread. As we can see, there are varying opinions on the scenario that I posted originally. All are valued and respected by me.

I want to make one comment at this point as we wind down the discussion on this topic. I realize that it's difficult sometimes to interpret the full intent behind someone's written opinion. As I read through the various comments, there were a few occasions where some caused me a bit of concern because they took on a personal tone. We should remember to avoid doing that in the future, whether we agree with someone or not.

As many of you know, interracial relationships is another one of those controversial topics that we pay a great deal of attention to at the forum. It will always garner a great deal of debate. True, this is an afrocentric website, but as long as someone isn't being disrespectful or rude, we must be patient with those whose opinions may not represent what we think are afrocentric views.

Remember, there are no right or wrong answers to the question...it's all about choice.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Greetings and welcome, Contrast! :wave:

Thank you for posting your comments to this thread. I hope you enjoy your stay with us and look forward to reading more from you in the future. Feel free to explore the many features we have to offer you here and by all means make sure you make Voice Chat one of the places you come to. We'd love to have you join us.

Now back to the topic at hand....if I may be so bold, let me turn your question back to you for a response. Why or do you think color matters when it comes to people from different racial backgrounds?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Oh my...I would have never thought that only the educated :teach: would have this "tolerance and understanding" for other cultures. I thought surely soma dem unedmacated folks had dis same undastanding...I better go back and gits my high school degree. :geek:

I wonder if these women were the same women that talk that "there are no good brothas" crap. Then when an eligible brotha is available they don't act on it. They talk about the brotha and the white girl because she got what she wanted. Then because he dates a white woman, that makes him a no-good brotha. A brotha (especially a good one) is not always going to chase a woman (black or white). That's what I never understand with some women. If you see someone who appeals to you, do something. If you don't act, don't be upset when you're sitting with your girls all the time instead of a man. Good men are in demand and are not going to desperately chase you around. There are too many women (with guts and a back-bone) to waste time on the ones that feel they are too good to approach a man.

Brother Kente, we may not be talking about the same type of woman but I'm wondering whether you think that the reason that some Black women don't approach Black men is because of fear, arrogance, lacking in courage? OR....could another reason be because that's the way women tend to be socialized? Now grant you I'm a bit older and things may have changed a lot since I was younger but it was my experience that women were taught to be pursued and not to become the pursuer. Not that I think anything is wrong for women to approach men but Black women get a bad rep for being AGGRESSIVE as it is and for her to bum rush a man the minute she sets eyes on him sort of feeds into that a bit don't you think? Why can't a sister lay back for a minute, check the brother out, let him notice her, see if there's some chemistry going on and then make a move? Back in the day, women were called s-l-u-t-s if she threw her butt up in a man's face everytime you turned around. Now I realize the competition is stiff out there for sisters and believe me, I emphathize because it's bad enough when you're competing among your own, much less have to compete with the entire female population. These days, a woman's chance of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening twice is probably greater.

But anyway....I digress....

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar: :)

I see what you're saying Queen, but women have always been told one way or another that something was not "womanly", from working to politics and sports. Why is something as small as approaching a man that you think is attractive so different? I think it's a combination of arrogance and society, because I have heard both used as a reason for not approaching men. Society has made it seem like a woman that approaches a man is desperate. I wonder if it's more women that make it seem that way, as I have never heard a man complain or bad-mouth when a woman approaches him. Also the arrogance is one that I've heard more than anything. Women saying things like "I'm not going up to him, he better come to me" or "I don't approach men, men appraoch me" type attitudes. There has been times when I totally didn't notice an attractive women until she came up to me, and she turned out to be wonderful. It wasn't that I wouldn't have been attracted, but some men don't walk the streets all day plotting to meet a woman. I had my mind on something else. Now, if she never came up to me we would've never met and experienced knowing eachother. I'm not saying that you should mug the guy, but the more you lay back and observe, the more chance someone will beat you to the punch no matter what color they are. I also think there is a difference between approaching a man and being aggresive at it. You can introduce yourself and maybe bring up going to lunch. You don't have to "drop it like it's hot" right in front of him. :lol: I don't think that's desperate at all to introduce yourself in a respectable manner. Most of all you're making contact and you're on his mind. Even if you don't hang-out that day, now you guys know eachother, instead of admiring from a distance.

One attends an institution to learn how to read and write .... but it's not required to become educated about other cultures or to be tolerant.

I didn't think so but your previous statement below just sorta tickled me :driveby: ...

Contrast Said: I do not see this type of racism/seperatism in educated people who have tolerance and understanding for other cultures.

I'm glad you cleared that up. :flamet:

I don't support the notion of "tolerance" because it says to me that someone is only putting up with me when they really don't want to if they have another choice.

There are such people who have formal educations that are fools just the same. Ignorance is not confined to the "uneducated". Knowledge has more value to me than education anyway, and common sense is absolutely priceless!

There are people who are so-called educated that stand before our children every day and try and "teach" hate and self-ridicule. Educated people don't impress me but people with knowledge and common sense (especially those that practice it) do.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

There are such people who have formal educations that are fools just the same. Ignorance is not confined to the "uneducated". Knowledge has more value to me than education anyway, and common sense is absolutely priceless!

:bowdown: Bowing Before The Queen!


Gurl You Spoke The Profound Truth Here...Thank You!

I don't support the notion of "tolerance" because it says to me that someone is only putting up with me when they really don't want to if they have another choice.

There are such people who have formal educations that are fools just the same. Ignorance is not confined to the "uneducated". Knowledge has more value to me than education anyway, and common sense is absolutely priceless!

There are people who are so-called educated that stand before our children every day and try and "teach" hate and self-ridicule. Educated people don't impress me but people with knowledge and common sense (especially those that practice it) do.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:


Excellent points!

And some women just make a bad choice in men, but can't admit it or identify the root causes. Panafrica made a very eloquent point about her initial post.

Very true Sekhemu....I find this more often than not. We hear about high divorce statistics 50-60% in marriages, and most people take this to mean that the institution of marriage is flawed. I look at these numbers and say 50-60% of people chose to marry the wrong person: They knew they were a cheater, drug abuser, wife beater, deadbeat....but choose to be with them anyway (or they were too young to know what marriage & love were about). It is much easier to blame someone else, than to admit your own mistakes.

In my opinion, who black men choose to date and marry is their business and none of my concern. Plus, worrying about who black men date or marry allows black women to further subjugate themselves and makes us easier to control in my opinion. It also makes black women come off as desperate and insecure even if they are not.

peace

I like when "unsuspecting white women" say the I just love black men speech. Especially when I tell them I'm the trying to be the rainbow girl..of course I don't make it a point to tell white women this...I never have and that's what make's the young lady's behavior "questionable." And that's what black men (some of them will miss). They wouldn't read a white men behaving the same way towards a black woman as:well, the early bird get teh worm.. or ithe white boy wanted it the most so it did what it took to snag the isistah..." White people often feel entitled to pople and things b/c of their socializzation.

Anyway, I agree black women should quit trying to "study" why , stop expecting black men to be attracted to black women only, stop trying to shame black men regarding their choices and so forth. I would suggest that black women adopt some of black men's practices, stop making other black women look back with all the anti-black men and non-black women drama, and always put themselves pirst.
Peace!

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

I'm a very friendly person. Get along with people of all races. One thing I don't do is FORCE myself on people.

At my job, as I walk down the hall, I make it a point to speak to people, white and black. Some speak, some don't...no big deal. That goes for black people, too. Some of them turn their heads the other way.

But this past Saturday I was on a shopping trip to NYC. I took a female friend with me. Her comment sorta irritated me. "Those white folks didn't bother to talk to us!" I said to her, "I really didn't notice and didn't care. It's not important to me." She said it wasn't important to her, but why did she bring it up?

She forgot about the two co-workers (white women) who spoke to me and I introduced her to them. And there were black people traveling on the same motorcoach and if I can recall, they didn't bother to say anything to us.

And I told her WHY didn't she initiate the speaking? Why should they speak to her when she didn't speak to them?

Should we care about whether they speak or not? IN my opinion, no.

I am well known as a friendly person who usually initiate conversations, especially when we get new employees to the group. I come to them (black, white, hispanic or asian) and make them feel welcome. And the next time they see me, they usually come to me with questions (location, procedures, etc.) because they feel at ease with someone who took time to speak to them and offer assistance.

I don't care much for white women saying, "I love black men". It is not a threat to me (I could care less), but I feel it's inappropriate. Heck, I've been with white guys but don't go around saying, "I love white guys!" IN reality, I love men...period! I've seen hunks in all races.

I loved the way you closed out that last message. "They might get mad and tell me to shut up, but at least I spoke up about it." That is the excuse many of us brothas and sistahs use when it comes to standing up for ourselves. We are afraid to open our mouths. Yeah you might get insulted, but somewhere along the way the person who insulted you or people will think about what they said, and they will too realize the truth.

We (blacks) built this country during slavery. We have not been granted anything in return but abuse, because if we were, we would not be struggling. We are very, very strong people. Think about it:

African-American women's spirits are so strong, that they can tear down a complete man. (Just a thought)

African-American men are so intense -- No. The only reason why African-American men are being rejected when filling out a job application to work for prestigious white employers is because they are afriad of the Unity: If Black men united and worked hard enough, they will take over the place.

That is what us brothas and sistahs need to do:

We need to get together in the name of Unity, and bring the best out of eachother. If we can do that, we can take over the country (U.S), and get everything we wanted -- including freedom.

Greetings and Welcome to our community Cedric Denson! :wave: I really enjoyed reading your post and hope you make yourself comfortable and take advantage of the many features we have to offer you. Because our membership is growing in number daily, we've been in the midst of a transition recently in order to accommodate and support the community. As with most changes, we are in the process of working through a few glitches and hope to have them smoothed out soon. But, at the present time, you have access to everything we have to offer, so please take full advantage of this opportunity. If you have any questions or feedback for us, feel free to contact any of the moderators.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

I would just like to thank vj57 because of her continued statements of tolerance. Being in love with someone should be about the "person" regardless of color (and for that matter religion, age, etc.) Her comments are both inspirational and touching. And a true testament of the strength of a WOMAN. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of the story was in the first place, but I don't really think it stands to represent anything, other than to showcase- to the extreme-the distance that the black women in the story set between themselves and the white woman. And the white woman's shallow "curiosity" about a man so different from herself(simply because of the fact that he was black). and thus the complete split between the black and white women's (in the story) perception of reality. Because the white woman perceived the black women as her "freinds", and the black women perceived her as a "white woman".But who knows, maybe the story would have gone on to tell us that she really truly loved the man. Maybe not.
I am not a black woman, I am barely a woman at all (only 19 myself), and if that means that I am not welcome in this format then I aplogize; BUT nor am I a white woman, nor do I fit into any other racial category. Do I have partial black ancestry-yes. Do I have partial caucasion ancestry-yes. As well as American Indian; in fact I have decendents from just about every continent on the planet. And in all honesty, so do most everyone else. I was attracted to this web site because of my admiration of it's members poetry and spiritual incite. Now that I have begun to read through some of the other posts however, I find an extreme sense of hostility towards "white" people. I understand it's reasoning and source completely, but as a person, a human--isn't it about time to stop it all. Hate from every direction. White, Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Jewish, PURPLE...it shouldn't matter. My whole life I have been asked, "what color are you?" because you simply cannot tell by looking at me where it is I "came from". As if such a thing as color should define a person anyway. And in my case, as in most cases, I didn't "come from" anywhere...I was born right here in the USofA. And from as far back as I can remember I despised being asked that question, because I knew that (depending on who was asking) that I would be judged based on my answer. I lost white freinds as a child, I lost black friends as a child, simply because their mommy's and daddy's didn't condone their befriending me becasue I wasn't the same "color" as them. There is no worse form of discrimination than that of the child too young to know better. And just a note, throughout my childhood I was attracted to all different kinds of boys; Indian boys, white boys, black boys...all boys really. But anyway...
I'm not saying that you should not be proud, hold your heads up and announce your strength as "black people". I only wonder why it is that you do not give yourself more credit than that even?! Even within a particular race every one of us differs so much from the other that "race" becomes practicly obsolete. At least personally, I refuse to label myself as any "race". I think that in legal terms I am considered Native American/ Alaskin native. Although I have never been to Alaska. And without my black, asian, idian, and caucasion ancestors...I wouldn't "be" at all.
P.S. I truly hope that I do not offend anyone with this post. I am certainly NOT trying to do that. I just wanted to express my sadly idealistic hopes that we could all just love each other. Just because...people are people. We all live and we are all going to die, I just hope to see all of the hate that has engulfed our world for SO long start to diminish, even if only a little...before I die.
oh...and honestly. If the story were a true one, then chances are that the woman did not really love the man and that subconciously her intentions were to snub the black women by keeping them so thuroughly informed of her affairs. Unfortunately hate does come from all directions and in every form. But all you can do is pity those who succumb to it.

And also "tolerance" is not putting up with something . tolerance is accepting something, that ultimately you don't get to be in control of anyway, and respecting it as different from ones own personal beliefs, actions, etc.

Greetings Loveregardless and welcome to Destee.com :wave:

I hope you enjoy your stay with us and hope that you take time to surf through the various threads we have here. I noticed this is your very first post and after reading your message it doesn't surprise me that you would take this position given your mixed race background.

People here come from different backgrounds and have varied experiences. Many of us have personal experiences with racism on a daily basis and we are extremely knowledgeable of our history in this country as an African people. Because racism continues to be practiced to this day, I'm sure you can understand why we have these types of discussions, but I would argue that just becasue we may not support interracial mixing that it stems from a natural hatred that Black people have for white people.

Recognize that there are many Black people who accept your point of view and a few, at least one, of them are here as you've pointed out. Needless to say though, vj57 whose opinion you've applauded is no longer a participant here so we won't be seeing her response to your message.

As far as what you wrote in my opinion, I wasn't offended by it at all. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm curious though about someone in your situation. You pointed out that you're neither a black woman nor white woman, so how do you identify yourself when you respond to the question on "race" on applications, etc.? Some do now collect information on people of mixed races, and have a box for multiracial identification.

Finally, we also know that we're not all going to agree on this topic of interracial relationships. But it's never been our intent to be in total agreement. As you've said, there's too much diversity among us to be naive enough to set that as a goal. The difference here that you will find is that it appears there are more people here who do agree, than disagree. The main focus here is AFROCENTRIC so you need to know that upfront and proper like, so that you're not surprised by some of the responses you might receive to your posts.

But again WELCOME and enjoy your stay. If you feel so inclined after being here a while, please consider becoming a Premium Member. If you have any questions, we're right here to answer them for you.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

I have always taken offence to being made to "check the box" on applications and such. Since the most that I have come into contact with this situation has been at school, I just stopped answering that question once I got into highschool. Sometimes I would just check random boxes, a different one every time. But technicly, I am Native American/Alaskin. So that's what I check if it's a required field. I used to answer people when they asked "what color I was" with "rainbow colored", and then quietly giggle to myself at their frustration. I actually wrote that in the "other" line on one or two of those forms before. I am sorry to hear about vj57, although it was not her alone that I was praising, she just happened to be the last post that I read prior to replying myself. I was very nervous about posting anything at all to be honest, but your welcoming me has set me more at ease. And even after having posted what I did, I in no way "disagree" even with some of the posts. It's more like I am saddened that the world is such a place that people would me made to feel like that to begin with. And that is ultimately what it all boils down to. Is that the world IS such a place that everyone is subject to discrimination, racial and otherwise, everyday of their lives. I just have too many dreams, too big of dreams, in thinking that it could ever change. At least not in our lifetime, not for many lifetimes...but one day. =)

Well yall that know me from a while back know that I am coming with the radical point of view...lol.

The fact of the matter is that we as black people in America have been socialized to dislike/hate white people and we are buying into it. It is a racial battle that was formed because of money and we have given no extensive thought to the subject. We are just acting/reacting based on irrational feelings and emotions. Of course it hurts black women when they see black men with the women of the enemy. The question is why are they are only enemies when it comes to sharing black men? Our (blacks and whites) kids go to school and play together. We work together. For all intents and purposes we are friends with white people until the white woman tries to be with a black man (or in my case when a white man wants one of my beautiful black queens). But.....

If we REALLY gave it thought it is the best way to conquer them. That is what they did to us...they made us THEM. We now fight with each other over money, religion, land, power, and things JUST LIKE THEY DO. We have been assimilated and are trying to rebel by separation. But separation benefits them WAY more than us. They have the money, resources, and power and to some degree unity to live without us. We are limited in all of those things ESPECIALLY unity because we are fighting to gain THEIR jobs, THEIR money, etc. See the best way for us to conquer them is to assimilate them. If one drop of black bloods makes you black........then shouldn't we be making babies with every white person out there and in a short period of time (two generations) this country would be 51 percent black...and then what could they do to us? Would they endeavor to continue to hate their black daughters, sons, grandchildren? I think not.

Now don't get me wrong. I know this will never happen because of our deep seeded hate for white people and their deep rooted hate of us. I also know that our unity and singleness of purpose could never start with something as radical as that. So the question is....what ONE thing can we agree on that would cause us to unify like cival rights did in the 60's?

Until then, since the uplifting of my people is the primary focus of my life, I will continue to entertain the thought of marrying ONLY a black woman because I know that were I to marry a white women I would have no respect in the black community.

Well yall that know me from a while back know that I am coming with the radical point of view...lol.

The fact of the matter is that we as black people in America have been socialized to dislike/hate white people and we are buying into it. It is a racial battle that was formed because of money and we have given no extensive thought to the subject. We are just acting/reacting based on irrational feelings and emotions. Of course it hurts black women when they see black men with the women of the enemy. The question is why are they are only enemies when it comes to sharing black men? Our (blacks and whites) kids go to school and play together. We work together. For all intents and purposes we are friends with white people until the white woman tries to be with a black man (or in my case when a white man wants one of my beautiful black queens). But.....

If we REALLY gave it thought it is the best way to conquer them. That is what they did to us...they made us THEM. We now fight with each other over money, religion, land, power, and things JUST LIKE THEY DO. We have been assimilated and are trying to rebel by separation. But separation benefits them WAY more than us. They have the money, resources, and power and to some degree unity to live without us. We are limited in all of those things ESPECIALLY unity because we are fighting to gain THEIR <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>s, THEIR money, etc. See the best way for us to conquer them is to assimilate them. If one drop of black bloods makes you black........then shouldn't we be making babies with every white person out there and in a short period of time (two generations) this country would be 51 percent black...and then what could they do to us? Would they endeavor to continue to hate their black daughters, sons, grandchildren? I think not.

Now don't get me wrong. I know this will never happen because of our deep seeded hate for white people and their deep rooted hate of us. I also know that our unity and singleness of purpose could never start with something as radical as that. So the question is....what ONE thing can we agree on that would cause us to unify like cival rights did in the 60's?

Until then, since the uplifting of my people is the primary focus of my life, I will continue to entertain the thought of marrying ONLY a black woman because I know that were I to marry a white women I would have no respect in the black community.


I have to disagree with you on a few points you made. You've said that blacks have been "socialized" to dislike/hate whites, yet you go on to say our kids (blacks and whites) go to school and play together, really? we work together.For all intents and purposes we are friends with white people until a black man or woman tries to be with a white person. My question is how could black folks hate or dislike white folks on one hand and have our kids play and go to school with them, and be friends on the other?. Not withstanding the whole mixing dyamic

The other point I have to disagree with you is that we are limited in terms of money, power and unity. Black americans make 500 billion dollars in this country. This is equivalent to the 10th largest GNP in the world. It's a matter of our priorities and overcoming mistrust. As far as unity, we unite on some things and are seperated on others, no more or less than any other group. Particuliarly in the way we vote, overwhelmingly democratic.

We don't need white folks as much as they need us. This fact is borne out in the money generated by 250 years of free labor. We have enough professionals, laborers skilled and unskilled to take care of ourselves. We have been taught that we need the white man to sustain us, and nothing could be futher from the truth

My question is how could black folks hate or dislike white folks on one hand and have our kids play and go to school with them, and be friends on the other?. Not withstanding the whole mixing dyamic

I don't know but it happens every day. In fact it happened in the very first example/post about this topic.

The other point I have to disagree with you is that we are limited in terms of money, power and unity. Black americans make 500 billion dollars in this country. This is equivalent to the 10th largest GNP in the world. It's a matter of our priorities and overcoming mistrust. As far as unity, we unite on some things and are seperated on others, no more or less than any other group. Particuliarly in the way we vote, overwhelmingly democratic.

Trust me I know how much money we squander as a people. However, it pales in comparison to what whites in this country make. It is a matter of ignorance more than anything else. Even those of us who make a good amount of money have never studied economics outside of what THEY teach us (if we have attended college). As for our unity...whatever you think we are unified in, ask yourself has it (or will it) change our plight here in america.

We don't need white folks as much as they need us. This fact is borne out in the money generated by 250 years of free labor. We have enough professionals, laborers skilled and unskilled to take care of ourselves. We have been taught that we need the white man to sustain us, and nothing could be futher from the truth[/QUOTE]

I agree we don't need white folks as much as we think we do. However, to be completely independent of them in the united states is not possible since they control 80 percent of all of the wealth and therefore have to power and resources to make themselves apart of our lives whether we want them to be or not. Take the IRS for example!!!

All I meant to say is that the utter hatred that black women have for black men dating/marrying white women is no different than white folks telling their children that they will disown them if they date/marry a black person. It is all irrational, silly, racism that protects nothing and helps nothing.

You said:...I read that Wesley Snipes and Dennis Rodman had a similar problem. Though it was not because of the way they dressed or their activities, but the fact that alot of black women thought that they were not good looking enough. So they got the attention they needed from white women who I guess accepted them for who they were.

This is so on point. I know of several brothas, who like Wesley Snipes, are not good looking. But honey, these brothas went on to do well in life financially. One of them became chief supervisor of a platoon of air force jet mechanics in a foreign country. He told me that he had been hurt by so many sistahs that if he ever dated one again, she would have to have more than twice the money he has. Yet, if she is white, she does not have to meet any requirements at all because he knows that they are not after his money but after his heart. He doesn't mind having black sistahs as friends, but he will never go beyond that again, he said. I have to admit that many sistahs do place a great emphasis on looks, thus many have missed discovering a diamond in the ruff.



J

Hi everyone I haven't posted in a while. And I know I'm joining this one really late. But I just wanted to bring up a point on using Dennis Rodman as an example for why black men go to white because he was rejected by black women. I read Dennis Rodmans book years back. He talked about the white family he lived with and their son he saw as a brother. He also mention how the White mother of that family would hide from him in l library's and stores(public places) because she didn't want anyone to know she was with him(she said it her self she was ashamed of the big black man). I'm puzzled as to why he doesn't just date Asians or something I would think that would have had an affect on him also. The "white" lady that he lived with would hide from him in public places while he called her. That's strange that he didn't see that as rejection enough to right off white women.

My question is how could black folks hate or dislike white folks on one hand and have our kids play and go to school with them, and be friends on the other?. Not withstanding the whole mixing dyamic

I don't know but it happens every day. In fact it happened in the very first example/post about this topic.

The other point I have to disagree with you is that we are limited in terms of money, power and unity. Black americans make 500 billion dollars in this country. This is equivalent to the 10th largest GNP in the world. It's a matter of our priorities and overcoming mistrust. As far as unity, we unite on some things and are seperated on others, no more or less than any other group. Particuliarly in the way we vote, overwhelmingly democratic.

Trust me I know how much money we squander as a people. However, it pales in comparison to what whites in this country make. It is a matter of ignorance more than anything else. Even those of us who make a good amount of money have never studied economics outside of what THEY teach us (if we have attended college). As for our unity...whatever you think we are unified in, ask yourself has it (or will it) change our plight here in america.

We don't need white folks as much as they need us. This fact is borne out in the money generated by 250 years of free labor. We have enough professionals, laborers skilled and unskilled to take care of ourselves. We have been taught that we need the white man to sustain us, and nothing could be futher from the truth

I agree we don't need white folks as much as we think we do. However, to be completely independent of them in the united states is not possible since they control 80 percent of all of the wealth and therefore have to power and resources to make themselves apart of our lives whether we want them to be or not. Take the IRS for example!!!

All I meant to say is that the utter hatred that black women have for black men <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>/marrying white women is no different than white folks telling their children that they will disown them if they date/marry a black person. It is all irrational, silly, racism that protects nothing and helps nothing.[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure where you get your facts from, but the majority of black children do not go to school and play with white kids.

As far as the money issue, I said make, not squander. There are plenty of black investment bankers and MBA's that can can be utilized to show us how to make our money multiply. Plenty! I know because I have them in my family. Do you think Reginald Lewis or Earl Graves started their careers without a college background in finance and banking?. We have the intellectual and monetary capital to be self-sufficient.

A small fraction of whites control most of the wealth, most of which do not live in this country. But so what. If a country has a GNP of 500 billion dollars that is a major player when it comes to movers and shakers. If black people took 10% of the money we make and created a multipurpose bank, what would we need white folks for? There is China, and other countries we could do business with.

But we are getting off the topic, however I do agree with your point about the interracial dynamic. But on the other hand we have to agree to disagree ahout political-economic plight of our people

interracial

Why do you keep putting interracial in your posts Tantrum???

Why do you keep putting interracial in your posts Tantrum???

I wondered the same thing Spicy, but Tantrum explained why here:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40707&page=3

I wondered the same thing Spicy, but Tantrum explained why here:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40707&page=3

O.K., I understand now, but I thought it was about promotion of the devotion....:shutup: ....lol