I know--- you don't know.


http://www.blackelectorate.com/articles.asp?ID=1003

Yeah, just the other day, someone that I know to be of African descent, tried to hack into my computer [and they know me to be from the motherland as well].

I know exactly who they are and where they are but I decided to leave them this time because they are black, next time though, I won't be so nice about it.

If there's one thing I can't stand more than whites disrespecting and stabbing blacks in the back, it's blacks disrespecting and stabbing other blacks in the back!

The same kind of people as the garbage that contributed to the creating of a struggle in the first place.

Peace......

Are we paying attention? It's a double-edged sword isn't it? Listen to ******** radio...you will not hear music played like the ones the writer mentioned in his article.

Good thread happy69! It's not just about Em is it sister?

it is mostly US.
It is so much about us, it makes me laugh... Friday, an article stated that Erv Gotti and Ja Rule were not going to forgive Eminem for what he did! Wasn't Ja Rule the one who penned that track for J-LO with the statement; "I'm down for my *****h." Well, well isn't that funny?
And aren't they, the tandem that has penned many of her songs and music--- you know the "music" she does that is not African-American, as she stated on Good Morning America, but Spanish?
And I don't know why we are surprised... Do you all even remember Dr. Dre' being arrested for throwing that female singer down the stairs and only getting house arrest.

God, what kind of world we live in when someone like Jesse Lee Peterson says,
"Most Black Men Are Pathetic" and it just may be True?

EVOLVE!!!

Most Black Men Are Pathetic" and it just may be True?

With so called conscious black women saying or repeating things like that, even on a pro black forum, it's no wonder in my mind that many black men seek partners outside of their communities, gravitatiing towards those whom, at the very least, will not refer to them as 'pathetic' or good-for-nothing etc.

Is that how you talk in your partner's presence?
Is that how you nuture your men ? :lol:

Poor brother!

Black women [if you focus on the actions of some of those in the media or the media's depiction of them] haven't exactly held the fort in terms of good and proper conduct but I'm sensible enough to know that whenever blacks behave in ways becoming, it is seldom reported or held up for all to see as a shining example in respect of black (wo)men, in case it catches on.

I don't think black women [even though there [I]are black men who behave in ways that are, or should be, frowned upon; like the black fool, who incidently, is a woman - who attempted to hack my computer] should cast a judgementary eye upon all black men because of the actions of a few, who compared to the total, are insignificant.

I suggest when judging black men, you remain specific as opposed to abstract in your insults

Or are you speaking specifically about African American men as opposed to black men?, in which case, maybe some of the bothers here residing in the U.S may want to comment, or maybe they've heard it so many time from the 'sistas' that it registers very little and incites little need to reply.

I myself am not familiar with that kind of opinion amongst the black women that I know and associate with.

Give me a break. No one said anything that was not truth. And the statement by JLP, who I personally dispise (and is well documented on this site, amongst others); made a statement that I included to make one think... and it is quite obvious my meaning so I won't waste any time explaining it.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy; and no way you cut it will change that. How in the hell would it be positive and pro Black- if we continue to ignore our own **** shortcomings.

I'm all for blaming those who should be blamed for everything. Most of our problems today, are our own **** creation.

Eminem is an average White man; he came in ,exploited us and our culture-- with the help of Black males; who ARE in it for the money, and who ARE criminal themselves.

I don't care who Black males marry. Black women have been and seemingly will continue to be the backbone of US-- that is a fact... we are strong, and brave and have to take alot of **** ... out of necessity. We are the only ones who standby our Black males, even when, they don't know us, help destroy us etc... And that is not only stupid, it better start changing; as a Community our eyes are opening to many things... not to just the same old tired games that Whitey is perpetratring; but the games against Black Women by Whitey and all his Co-conspirators---- including Black males.

In the 80's sisters had a saying, "Come correct or don't come at all..."

I don't care who anyone marries that is not my business-- but when you do, cry on their shoulders and leave the Black Community out of it--plus most of the consumerism inside our communities are female based--- the best and logical step is Black Women loving themselves enough to cut the dead weight.

While you are worrying and trying to perpetrate a fraud by just suggesting that Black Women continue to subjugate themselves to this bull****... you are so conscious and so **** knowing, you better be keeping your eyes on what is happening all around us... because that Black Women don't understand me, Black Women have attitudes, Black Women this, Black Women that crap is getting old and stale... you want to be a King, then act like one.

The prison (new slavery system) is aimed mainly at you. When you can rub two pennies together you run to anybody except your own, even though 9/10 of the time it is a Black Woman who worked her *** off providing for you...then your *** get in trouble and we stupidly cry for "them" to understand you... not kill you, marrying Whitey or other doesn't get you anymore respect or any at all... and Black Women are moving beyond you in so many aspects-- and we should not be stifled. Hell, Racism hurts [B]US ALL in this community and ontop of that we have to be weighed down with your Disgrace, hypocrisy... and then you have the stupidity to coon for Whitey; and don't even know when he is disparaging you.

I know what Black Men are, I had a father who provided for his family, and if any man would have called me out my name, he was the type who would put his **** shot-gun to his head; He cherished my Black mother, she was his "Honey"--- he and his money and his love came home. I know all brothers are not as I stated; because I have brothers who are very successful... married to Black women who bore them their own spoiled assed children...

I love my Black American people. I love them enough to say that WE have problems, that only WE can solve. I love them enough not to bull**** about our shortcomings.

And get something clear about me. I am for Black Americans--- only. I will not support any of US who are destroying US. I am not African. I am not going back to Africa; because I never was in Africa. I am of African descent and feel that my foreparents who were dragged upon these shores after being sold for trinkets, sugar and gun powder (destruction); took whatever Greatness that came from Africa...And made it possible for me... So, yes, I think my history began here. I relish the thoughts of where WE started... and what we have accomplished. I lament our ill-conceived need for acceptance over empowerment and giving up our creations for something with the substanence of water....I relish the thought of what we could do If WE ever decide to. I empathize with the suffering of others; but don't decry it because no one but US cry for US.

AND IF THAT IS NOT BLACK ENOUGH OR PRO ENOUGH FOR YOU AND ANYBODY ELSE HERE THAT IS TOO BAD... AND I AM GETTING TIRED OF HAVING TO PROVE MY FEELINGS FOR MY PEOPLE. SO YOU UZOKA AND EVERYBODY LIKE YOU, CAN HAVE AT IT OKAY.

What is all this **** about some Black Female hacking into your computer?

So what, and what relevence does that, have to do with this thread or any other... You found out somone was hacking your computer--okay, you know who it is then call the police, prosecute them. Hacking is a crime.
???

Hacking is a crime

No one said anything that was not truth

Very good, a biscuit for happy69 who correctly stated that hacking is a crime, and they have been reported to the relevant authorites thank you very much for caring enough to say this, however, you failed to comment on the main gist of my post which was that black women should remain specific as opposed to generalising and lumping most black men in the same negative basket, a reply to your statement that most black men are pathetic, anything to say regarding that?

And yes black people do have problems, but saying something like that is a far cry from saying most black men are pathetic, and then hinting as to the truthfulness and validity of the statement.

It should be said that some black men are pathetic [as are some white men] so as to spare those black men - who in my experience, are the majority since unlike you, I have travelled -who, although they may not be swimming in money, work hard and carry themselves with dignity, from bearing the brunt of criticism they do not deserve, and to encourage them that they are noticed by their women.

But I guess you can always back track after saying something like that, you have that right, no harm done...pfft.

I am not African. I am not going back to Africa

:lol: what a loss :lol:

What are you telling me for, please, save it for someone who gives a **** as to what you consider yourself to be or your insignificant views concerning the potential greatness [or lack thereof] of Africa, who I think will get on just fine without you. :) hehe

I guess this greatness that was taken out of Africa at the advent of slavery went only with the women since as you say, most of the black men are pathetic [black men in your experience being defined as African Americans since as I said, it is obvious you're not well travelled].

And as for the trickets?

Yesterday, blacks sold people for trinkets, today, they sell drugs to people, yep, WE got problems alright.

ROOOAR! :lol:

My people, please let's not turn this discussion into a Black male/female, African American bashing slamfest. :fight: I think the purpose of this thread is to discuss how Blacks can often be our own worst enemy...in terms of the Eminem story. Let's not be hypocrits--in other words throw stones at glass houses or say one thing and do something different. Anyone brave enough to tell the truth about the type of music that is so popular today, then speak either for or against it so that you can stand up and be counted. It's ok to disagree, just do it in a manner that doesn't create a hostile environment--please.

Thanking everyone in advance...

Peace!

Your words are saturated with truth and reason NNQueen and I just want to make it clear [even though at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter] that I do not think anything negative regarding African Americans or Af Am men, as I said, we have our problems; I merely took issue with the statement that black men are pathetic [or that most of us are].

There are good black men to be found in abundance everywhere [including Africa] and that has been my experience travelling around the world over the past 8 or so years, that is the only point I was trying to make, that and that black women should speak specifically regarding black men who are less than they ought to be, for fairness' sake.

Eminem?

Well, how many times more are blacks going to invite whites to their party, ply them with food and drink, all in order that whites will then turn around, disrespect their hosts and steal the furniture?

Blacks only have themselves to blame, stick with your own and don't let them in.

Peace.

uzoka, thank you for your reply and cooperation. Your points are well taken and good advice. We should be careful not to generalize our comments to mean ALL Black people unless we have factual data to support our beliefs. After all, to generalize like that has to include even the writer of the comment if they are a member of the group of which they are addressing.

The questions you raise are good ones, but unfortunately, ones that seem to be constantly asked when it comes to discussions about Black people. When are we going to learn and, as I have written often, if not now, when?

I've heard it expressed that Blacks are genuinely a "giving" people and that we have no problems sharing what we have with others. Our history abounds with examples of where this might be true. On the surface that makes us seem like we're extremely generous and that's usually an admirable quality to have, but if our generosity is causing problems for us because we're not selective enough in what we share and who we share it with, then is that a quality to admire or is that just plain stupid behavior?

How easy is it to keep things to ourselves without others finding out about them before we've had the opportunity to patent the ideas? They set the rules and determine the standards and own the majority of the businesses that we try to enter into. How can we protect our 'ownership' such that we don't get raped/robbed of our ideas anymore? We invent concepts yet many of us ever reap full benefit of the blood, sweat and tears that we put into our inventions. Others 'bite' our ideas and become wealthy. What's the difference? Could it be that we're Black and they're not? Could this be discrimination or simply poor business savvy on our part?

What is really being said here?

Happy69,

I have read many of your post, in which you are constantly, reiterating your displeasures concerning the negative actions of Black People and especially Black men. First of all, I am an African American man, born here in America and I find your comments baseless, insulting and without merit, as far as, implicating most Black men as “pathetic”. But I am not personally offended, for I have complete knowledge of Self (which includes a constant examination of my imperfections). I AM NOT AFRAID OF THE COMMENTS OF A HURTING BLACK WOMAN. For all Black people in this twisted exilic experience are in pain. And by using the word exile, I refer to being “exiled from our true self”. This is the state of Africans, Black people and Aboriginal people all over the world. But even with that said, “ Strong sisters cannot respect brothers, no matter how caring, loving and/or humble they are, who kowtow to uncorroborated innuendos and insidious insinuations, regardless if those comments are directed at you (Black Woman) or ourselves (Black men).

WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTIVE, SISTER?

The old folks say, “You can’t attract flies with vinegar”. If you are a woman of wisdom, I don’t have to explain this parable.

It’s hard for me to imagine that your Father (seemingly an outstanding Black man) could find your comments to be respectful of yourself (the intelligent Black Woman, that he had a hand in raising), let alone Black men. I know that the very strong and spiritual Black Women, who had a major part in my upbringing, would find your diatribes appalling, inciting and unbecoming of your nature (Respectful Black Woman).

The type of Black man that you abhor is not spending his pimp-downtime posting on Destee.com and I can’t imagine any Black man, ‘worth his salt”, could find your condescending comments enlightening or informative.

Sister, you need to regurgitate that “bitter pill”, and show some love; for a man, much like your father may be on the other side of your comments.

Peace, Love and Ashe,

Sun Ship,

P.S. – without apologizing for cruel and ignorant brothers, the white man has disrespected his woman in ways that cannot be counted for centuries, but even she (for whatever reason) is not going to TOTALLY malign her man; for she, even in her ignorance, realize at the end of the day, he is all, that she has.

Sister NNQueen :bowdown:

Regarding the ramblings of that “rapping, trailer park, troglodyte” “M&M”. Who’s tongue I hope melts in his mouth.

What should we aspect of white men?

He should be rewarded for being, “who he truly is”!!!!

It’s not often that white men tell the truth about how they REALLY feel about Black people, let alone Black women.

And we always want them to recant and lie to us with an apology?????

We are more diluted than he is!!

Hello Black People ___He-ll-llooooo!!!!!!! :teach:

ANY WHITE MAN, WHO DOESN’T RESPECT HIS OWN MAMA, IS DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO RESPECT BLACK WOMEN!!! :jawdrop:

Wake up Black people!!!



Also regarding the fact of Black people being so sharing with others (i.e., whites), I do understand that we may find it hard to remove ourselves from our original God/teacher role as it applies to the world. Though I will not speak for the HipHop/Rap world, I do know that many times (for some reason) we do not like to be students of our OWN CULTURE AND/OR MUSICAL LEGACIES and many times neglect the Griots and teachers of our OWN culture, in our OWN community.

I’ve seen this with Jazz (real jazz), the Blues, African/world music and Afro-Cuban/Salsa to name a few.

I am not trying excuse the treacherous culture robbing dealings of conspicuous white people or the traitorous back-room dealings of despicable Negro sellouts, with the previous statement. But we have abandon control of our culture and validated the exploitation of our culture by not defining and promoting our culture’s truest intent or protecting the integrity of its creations.

Remember this. ____When a civilization is given over to debauchery, it’s the Kings and Queens, Princes and princesses, the Sages and wise men, who are held accountable; for never have you seen the totality of a great culture celebrated or castigated, by the intellectual discourse and artistic renderings of the ignorant, foolish and unlearnt, within.

Peace,

Sun Ship

Slap us again, Brother Sun Ship for your words sting of truth!

Generous to a fault. Sometimes it seems as though we constantly seek the acceptance and approval of the white man such that we sell ourselves out for fleeting moments of bliss. We're good students at something but you're absolutely correct, it's not about our own culture and I must ask why is that? Does this behavior characteristic stem from slavery? Why can't we learn from our history such that we are equipped to avoid repeating the same mistakes over and over? What is it that we fear will happen if we raise up against what we believe are injustices against us and take full responsibility for ourselves and control of our lives and destiny? Are we psychicly (is that a word?) controlled such that we've lost control of our actions and can't understand why we do what we do that harms us?

You're right about Eminem...he's doing exactly what he's able to do and shouldn't be faulted. There's another old saying that no one can do anything to you that you don't allow them to. Eminem is making his money and grabbing his moment of fame, and yes, he's being helped by the very people that he hates. That's more than sad, that's sick.

We complain about this and that; stay in perpetual wonderment of others that 'steal' from us, yet nothing much seems to ever change. Why is that? Why can't we become change agents? Are we shuffling along single file with our ankles and wrists still shackled to each other?

Sisters and brothers, let's stop pointing the finger at each other and spewing hatred and disgust at each other. It's not the Black man's fault, it's not the Black woman's fault as long as we aren't sitting on our butts and doing NOTHING to embrace and uplift our own. Let's put all the petty infighting aside and begin to show each other the utmost respect. We have a tougher battle ahead of us and we need to build our armor and prepare our comrades. We have to stop pulling apart and begin to draw closer together because it's going to get real ugly year by year if we don't focus and build an arsenal to protect ourselves with. We've lost a lot of ground over the last few years and if we don't understand that and why, the erosion will continue to grow and eventually there will be a landslide with Blacks on the bottom of the heap.

You want equal rights? Equal to whose? You think the laws in the U.S. will give you or has given you equal rights? Hmmm...which laws are these? You want equal access? You want better services? If so, what's stopping you? Do you care where you spend your money? Do you care how the government spends your hard earned tax dollars? If you invest, do you know or care about the companies you invest in? Do you care about the growing cost of health-care and its impact on the African American community? Do you care about the rising cost of a college education in public institutions across the nation and its impact on African American students? What's the state of our HBCU's today? Do we care what happens to them or not?

The list goes on and on so even though this thread is about Eminem, I think we have much more serious and far more important things to discuss than one white man and how he makes his money at the expense and with the help of some Black people.

Peace!

sunship...i would have loved for you to give specific examples of some of our jazz and blues greats...artists that we as a people have let go of...i am convinced that we must continually call out names...to mention an eric dolphy or an errol garner...to mention a blind lemon hopefully will stimulate some one of us to check out who they are...begin to relate to some of our roots and not give energy to those who keep us unfocused. I say that because what you said was dead on...(alive on)...and nnqueen your response to him was also , for me, so positive. It addressed the questions of what do WE do NOW. Acknowledging our history and not just the ones who have been written about in the commercial media.., Thinking about what we do, politically, economically, socially, spiritually- to me, is the only way we will really move forward.
One way, in making points, is to speak to some of those who have come and done...calling out names...and then courageously asking who they are...if we don't know..

NNQueen,

You are right...we need to worry about other things than Eminem. Mainly, we need to become more involved politically and find out what laws, state and national, that are affecting our lives. So many bills are signed that affect us and we never know until it's too late.

We need to become more involved in our communities...walk the walk, not talk the talk. I suggest we start a topic that covers political events and decisions that affect us.

There is nothing that I can do, if you misinterpret my words or intentions... nor will I say what is not truth to appease anyone. There is nothing that I stated that was not the truth; I qualified my statement... There was no way possible to misinterpret my words... I am very clear about what I think and what I feel.
We as a community have an open window--still; if we decide to take it-- but what will happen or can happen if we don't face some hard truths about ourselves? Nothing.
Again, nothing in my posts is not and have not been the truth... I don't think I have ever generalized anything... and the statement that you misinterpreted, in and of itself was a queston?
Wouldn't it be illogical to say all black men are one way, yet the black men in my life are not like that-- not in the remotest?
Black women catch hell in this world... there are never anyone out there to pat us on our heads and tell us that it is okay; not even from US-black women; and who join the malay with those who attack US? Black men.

I have never and will never be disrespectful to anyone; unless I get it first; and then, I can either walk away without a word, or respond.

This thread is an indictment of Black men who willingly and openly have disrespected a whole culture. And from the gang bang attitude, it seems that many of US regal these individuals as heros. That I do not get?
Eminem, is your average White person. I expect others who are not black to try and hurt us; but when it is your own--- then that is not only sad; that is the end of the culture.

What do I want from US--- Black Americans?
I want us to get mad enough to Unite, to Love Ourselves, and cut the dead weight--Which would include many in our communities from the criminal to the entertainers. We get mad about Eminem and Ghettopoly; but not mad at those who perpetuate these very same crimes in our own communities. That is dangerous and the very hypocrisy that is being used against US-- it is played out right in front of our faces. And if I say something that makes you mad enough to do something, anything... Then that is great.

Of course I understand what you are saying; "You can't attract flies with vinegar,"
Then I ask you, then why is that the only way sometimes to get us to react to anything?
And don't you even tell me that that is not truth concerning US!
They literally kill us... because it is a way to get us off focus ... do you think that they don't like to see us riot and destroy ourselves? Cincinnati didn't fall this time.
They report verifiable lies just to get us upset and then they play the hypocrisy game that we are perpetuating against us... They get an upset Black Man (usually-- who is all twisted with the emotionalism of the moment); and then they find some jiggaboo- usually a Black Males, who comes along as parrot for racist whites to rebutt (rather say that all White folks are good, and it is just them negros that is the problem)... and they sit back and laugh at the monkey fight...

I do agree with you when you state the disrespect that the White man shows for his woman; but he is "smart" enough not to do it in public. How many times do you see Black males talking to Whites about how much he hates Black Women? And there have been some cases when the opposite is true too.
Maybe we should learn to fake it. Everybody else does. Those stats of a woman being beaten or killed every 8 seconds of everyday---
ARE NOT US--
And it has nothing to do with us. And it is no excuse for what we are doing to OURSELVES.

Oh and my father believed in calling 'em as he seen 'em.

it is mostly US.

Is that a fact??? Happy69, I first want to thank you for sharing this article, which contains some facts that I will store in memory and refer back to next time I'm in the company of candya&&'s fans. For now, let us return to some of the comments you wrote in haste. It is MOSTLY US who work to destroy ourselves, you say? I shouldn't even have to dignify that blatant distortion of fact with an analytic rebuttal, but I guess it behooves me to do so. How much power do you seriously suggest that we as a community have to harm & otherwise destroy large numbers of our population? Are you suggesting that we could somehow have the means & mechanism to incarcerate more than 1/2 a million of our people at once (read Prison Industrial Demon Captors)? Are you suggesting we have control over the airwaves/tellllievision networks/news media and etc., which hold the instruments that compose the scripts of our lives, as they wish to depict AND SHAPE them? Did we establish capitalism? Is it regulated by us? Is it us who sat down decades ago at roundtable discussions, and continue to do so today, mapping out nefarious plans for our demise, and precisely how these plans shall be carried out, all the way down to each minor detail, including plans B-Z, just in case we should catch on to what is going on and try and stop them? Are you suggesting to me that we are at the helm of the drug cartel? Did we create HIV? Oh and it was a creation, mind you. Is it black police chiefs who head notorious, brutal police forces that beat and kill our people routinely? How about the pharmaceutical industry, which disperses harmful drugs to our people disproportionately (Ritalin, AZT, Prozac, etc., etc., etc.)? Do we control either the street or corproate drug industries? Alcohol and tobacco industries? Are we the ones who purchase the billboards that go up in the 'hood advertising the hardest of legalized drugs (Camel/Kool/Newport/St.Ides/Colt45/RedBull,etc.)? Did we set up the Faith Based Initiative, which has created the megachurch/bipartisan church corporation?

Sure, we are actors in this criminal performance they have created for us--they scripted it precisely that way-- but I think I can get a WHOLE LOT more people messed up on drugs/cigarettes/alcohol/intracultural hatred/self-destruction if I own and control some stuff, than either individually or as a collective subculture, who owns and controls nothing.

God, what kind of world we live in when someone like Jesse Lee Peterson says, "Most Black Men Are Pathetic" and it just may be True?


The problem lies not with "most black men", but with anyone who could buy into that white supremacist bull****, that has been blasted into our psyches since day 1. It boggles my mind to know that grown folk still allow hollywood to spoon-feed them their reality, and they bite off into it as if it were their last meal. And the mind control is more effective in this cesspool nation than anyplace else on the planet. I'm too longwinded, I know, but I must add finally that I find it insane the way Ebony women & men are so EASILY set at serious odds with one another, even to the point of hatred. It is so against our nature. Lastly, if most black men were pathetic (I'm having a difficult time coming up with 5 whom I know personally), that would mean that there are quite a number of pathetic black women out there (their mothers, who had or should have had a significant influence on how they turned out).

Please do not allow the media to distort your vision.

Surely, anyone who disagrees with and was offended by marshall's comments about Ebony women, is equally offended by negative remarks about Ebony women, regardless of whom or where they originate. So why the fixation on "US" doing the same thing? Anyone who disrespects their own is not typically going to be the one complaining when caucazoids offend us. It is us who are against ALL those bozos (regardless of their color or culture) and their trashy sentiments who are demanding respect for us by us AND them and complaining whenever and wherever we find an infraction. Who among our people has ever suggested that black-on-black disrespect is cool??? Please do not take one idiot (like Ja Rule) and then brush the entire Black Nation (or the Black Man, for that matter) with the same broad stroke.

:peace:

I do agree with you when you state the disrespect that the White man shows for his woman; but he is "smart" enough not to do it in public.

Now what the heck is that supposed to mean?

I'm sorry but I have to take issue with this comment, even at the risk of dragging this thread way off course but, surely you jest!

To give one example of the very public maltreatment of white women at the hands of white men, the European witch hunts of 1400 - 1800, 400 cruel and inhuman years of misogynistic [and religious] slaughter


Now, I will be the first to admit that some [quite a few in fact] black men are completely deplorable in the way they interact with the women in their lives or in respect to their views concerning women in general but to abbreviate the matter as I need to be out of door in like 10 seconds, there's nothing private [or smart] about the ways in which white men have gone about mistreating their women, nothing at all.

The above statement in quotes is so not grounded in truth.


Peace.....

In terms of who causes our problems--some see it as 'us'; some see it as 'them'; some don't see anything at all because they wear blinders, live in denial and are politically asleep.

Sister Nia, you raise some good questions. I would hazard a guess that the answer to each of your questions is a resounding "no"--Blacks do not control any of those things. Yet and still they manage to find their way into our communities, affecting our daily lives, harming us, destroying us and causing a vast amount of sadness and frustration among us.

If this is about who controls what, then I think we know who creates many of our problems and how these problems find their way into our communities. But could this be where their control ends and ours begins? For certain, there is one thing that we do have control of and it's the greatest power we or anyone can possess. It's more precious than gold, money, sex, big fancy cars and homes...we have control of ourselves--our minds. This is a fact.

Some of us may fall victim to these trappings but many of us don't. Blame needs a target. As Black people, we need a growing number of us to be conscious by recognizing that we cannot blame ourselves for something we have no control of. But at the same time, being honest with ourselves by also recognizing that if we don't like what's happening to us, then we must take responsibility for our behavior. We don't need to be the creators of something to share responsibility for what happens to us if we electively consume what is created.

May I be presumptuous to suggest that much of what is negatively affecting our community is not any different than what other communities are exposed to as well. But when we're exposed to it, it becomes like a pariah. We are severely allergic to European ways and means. It never has set well in our bellies and I doubt that it ever will. Assimilation to European culture might work well for other racial groups, but it's counter-productive for us. No matter how much $$ you make, you're still Black. You can drive the most expensive car but you're still DWB (driving while Black). Large homes in majority white neighborhoods, you're still subject to waking up to a cross burning in your front yard...yes, even in the 21st century.

Let's be clear about who to blame and for what. Then let's take responsibility for our actions and control of our destiny. Let's get past this...

Peace!

Nia M:
It is MOSTLY US who work to destroy ourselves, you say?

YES. No one is controlling anyones mind. No one put a gun to your head and made you call your own people *******; or women and girls ******* and whores. No one put a crack pipe to your hand. AND SURELY NO ONE MAKES YOU GO OUT AND BUY RECORDS AND PRODUCTS FROM PEOPLE WHO DEGRADE AND DISRESPECT YOU.


How much power do you seriously suggest that we as a community have to harm & otherwise destroy large numbers of our population?

ALL OF IT. Our survival and demise is in our hands. You say UNITY but what kind of UNITY is there when we hen peck over what is and what is not OUR PROBLEMS.
I know that it is okay in the books of many females that it is okay to constantly be portrayed by society as a whole as Gold Diggers, ******* and Whores.

Are you suggesting that we could somehow have the means & mechanism to incarcerate more than 1/2 a million of our people at once (read Prison Industrial Demon Captors)?

DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. But I'll try. Prison is the new slavery. If we are as smart a people as we like to say why do we fall into it? I do believe that many of those in prison should not be there; I do believe that many are addicts of one kind or another and should get treatment just like their White counterparts; but if you know how the game is being played; and you know that the cards are stacked against you... why get into the game--- the criminal game that is?

Are you suggesting we have control over the airwaves/tellllievision networks/news media and etc., which hold the instruments that compose the scripts of our lives, as they wish to depict AND SHAPE them?

YES. Turn them off. If the 90% of us who believe similary turn off the television and decide not to buy newspapers that berate, disparage and marginalise us--- there can and will be sweeping change... Why do you think that almost trillion dollars we shovel in to the system is always referenced?

Did we establish capitalism? Is it regulated by us? Is it us who sat down decades ago at roundtable discussions, and continue to do so today, mapping out nefarious plans for our demise, and precisely how these plans shall be carried out, all the way down to each minor detail, including plans B-Z, just in case we should catch on to what is going on and try and stop them?

IRRELEVENT.

Are you suggesting to me that we are at the helm of the drug cartel? Did we create HIV? Oh and it was a creation, mind you. Is it black police chiefs who head notorious, brutal police forces that beat and kill our people routinely? How about the pharmaceutical industry, which disperses harmful drugs to our people disproportionately (Ritalin, AZT, Prozac, etc., etc., etc.)? Do we control either the street or corproate drug industries? Alcohol and tobacco industries? Are we the ones who purchase the billboards that go up in the 'hood advertising the hardest of legalized drugs (Camel/Kool/Newport/St.Ides/Colt45/RedBull,etc.)? Did we set up the Faith Based Initiative, which has created the megachurch/bipartisan church corporation?

NO. WE'D RATHER BE THE STREET HOODS, THE FOOLS MAKING UP THAT 500,000 IN JAIL ON THE NEW PLANTATION. THE FOOLS KILLING OUR OWN PEOPLE; DON'T YOU THINK THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WHEN THOSE WHO DO RUN AND CONTROL THE CARTELS DON'T LET THAT GARBAGE INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES? I GUESS NOT.

CRAZY DRUGS TO OUR KIDS. I blame US 100%. I have known several of the the COULD'VE BEEN STRONG BLACK MEN WHO COULD'VE BEEN SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY... LIFE CUT SHORT BECAUSE THEIR PARENT WANTED TO GET A CHECK... AND LET WHITE FOLKS CALL WHAT WAS BEING CHILDREN; BEING CRAZY-- AND THEN THEY SAY, BY THE WAY, WE'LL GIVE YOU A CHECK FOR YOUR TIME.. AND WE LINE UP FOR THE MONEY.

FAITH BASED INNITIATIVES DIDN'T SET UP THE MEGACHURCHES SURROUNDED BY THE GHETTOS--- WHERE OUR OWN PEOPLE ARE DYING. WE DID AND DO THAT.
I HAVE RANTED LONG AND HARD ABOUT THIS ONE--- THIS IS BASED ON GREED. THE INNITIATIVE DIDN'T INVENT THE AVARICE AND GREED OF THE FAILED BLACK CHURCH- WE DID THAT (SOME SEEM TO BE STARTING TO WAKE-UP).

Sure, we are actors in this criminal performance they have created for us--they scripted it precisely that way-- but I think I can get a WHOLE LOT more people messed up on drugs/cigarettes/alcohol/intracultural hatred/self-destruction if I own and control some stuff, than either individually or as a collective subculture, who owns and controls nothing.

SO. WE ARE AT FAULT. BUT THEY CONTROL OUR MINDS?

ALL YOU HAVE SAID IS THAT WE ARE WEAK AND WORTHLESS. ACCORDING TO YOUR DIATRIBE THEN ALL THEY HAVE TO DO TO US IS HOLD OUT A CARROT IN FRONT OF OUR NOSES AND WE WILL BRAY LIKE DONKEYS.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOUR MIND IS CONTROLLED. BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU WE CONTROL NOTHING; ESPECIALLY NOT OUR MINDS. WE ARE MERELY ROBOTS.

SO WHAT ARE WE HERE FOR? WHY ARE WE VOICING OPINIONS... SO IF I CAN INFER WHAT YOU WROTE--- WE ARE CONTROLLED... SO WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG? ACCORDING TO YOU, I GUESS I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY SAY?

THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO STOP RACISM. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THEIR INDICTIVE TO DESTROY US. BUT IT IS US WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN SURVIVAL... BUT THEN AGAIN, ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU WROTE... WE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF ANYTHING--- NOT EVEN OUR MINDS!

That is some SCARY ****. NOW I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ALL ARE COMING FROM; I AM WRONG BECAUSE IT IS REALLY THEM WHO ARE DOING THIS; AND OUR DYING IN THE PRISON PLANTATION, OUR KIDS NOT BEING EDUCATED, OUR YOUNG BEING IMMERSED IN CRIMINALITY, OUR MALES HAVING NO RESPECT FOR ANYONE OR ANYTHING--INCLUDING THEMSELVES AND FEMALES FOLLOWING SUIT, AND US NOT TAKING CARE OF OUR HEALTH---ALL THAT IS THEM, NONE OF IT IS US.

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

Peace, NNQueen. To state what must already be obvious to some in this forum, we cannot even BEGIN to guess at or fathom the degree of brainwashing that we have suffered as a people, and continue to suffer unwittingly on a daily, hourly, secondly basis. Such is the handiwork of the oppressor.

If this is about who controls what, then I think we know who creates many of our problems and how these problems find their way into our communities. But could this be where their control ends and ours begins? For certain, there is one thing that we do have control of and it's the greatest power we or anyone can possess. It's more precious than gold, money, sex, big fancy cars and homes...we have control of ourselves--our minds. This is a fact.

The only place any real control of ours begins is at the doorstep of Segregation. The Matrix is too extensive and too deep rooted a trap for us to try and navigate through successfully whilst maintaining our sanity. Black folk in this society respond to its structure in one of three ways: acquiesce their position in this society and maintain a false sense of security, peace and sanity, -or- buck against the position dictated to them in this society and either wind up getting knocked off, die a premature death because of the morbid degree of stress on their sociological immune system, or they eventually go off the deep end. A small percentage reject this society and either get a one-way ticket to another land or recede into a commune. That's the gist of what we have the power to do in our own defense in this decadent society.

As far as us having control of ourselves/our minds, unfortunatley, that is far from fact. Yt is the authority, for most of us, and to get our community as a whole to reject that authority, will not happen in this lifetime. The mind is actually much easier to manipulate than anything material, and yt is the worldwide master of mind control. Very few of us use more than 2% of our actual thinking capacity at any given moment, and that other idle 98% is CONSTANTLY under manipulation, all day long, day in and day out, year in and year out, by the enemy. For this reason, although a small minority of us--like you and I--actively work at filtering out all the bs that is shoved upon us incessantly, we too are brainwashed, and cannot escape the brainwashing entirely. It is for this reason that even though we have the best intentions, we too "slip" at times, and think/behave like less than the Alkebulan culture soldiers we have become.

It's easy to say, well, we all need to clean up our communities, and teach the youth. We most certainly must, however, only those inclined to do such will act. There are more caucasians willing to work against us than there are people among us willing to wake up and unite against our destruction. Although I'm against cloning, I kind of wish we could clone somebody like Na'im "Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery" Akbar and Frances "Ysis Papers" Cress Welsing about 20 million or so times, and give each pair to every Ebony child in amerikkka as their Godparents, to help bring them up to recognize what is going on in this beast's entrails.

Blame needs a target. We don't need to be the creators of something to share responsibility for what happens to us if we electively consume what is created.


There is no need to point fingers, that is wasted energy. We must, however, recognize the origin of a disease if we are to develop a cure. This is not about casting blame, although we absolutely must be careful not to "blame the victim". That we SHARE responsibility for what is happening to our people is a moot point, however, to state that it is MOSTLY US who are the perpetrators is to view the world with tunnel vision--that misinformation HAD to be debunked.

Happy69, just look at how you tried to convolute my points. If you overstood what drove you to misconstrue my words, you should be ashamed. Clearly, you are so blinded by the fury you harbor toward yourself (which you project outward onto the Black Collective), that you preclude yourself the ability to see through the smokescreens where the bigger picture looms. You try and compare an indigent, Black, uneducated (unaware), struggling-for-basic-survival male to a rich, priviledged, caucazoid, calculating, power-crazed luciferian male???

My statements make no sense to you, because you have no overstanding of white supremacy, and as Neely Fuller Jr. aptly put it, consequently, "everything else you think you overstand will simply find you confused" (I'm paraphrasing here). This is why you propose simplistic, implausible solutions, such as "all the zombies, just throw out your teevees and other propagandistic media". Criminals, just stop committing crime, even though you're stacked up on top of everybody else around you in your modern day ghetto, about to simultaneously suffocate and die of starvation, and the tools for committing crimes are practically hung around your neck. Low IQ, poverty-stricken mamas, just say no to an extra $500.00+ in your pocketbook and a pill to make your child stop defying your authority and that of his schoolteachers. Pastors, we know you detest the evil dollar, so just hang up the phone when you get the call offering you a $million contract to develop your church property and programs.

Happy69, I'm quite sure you'd love for me to concur with your "weak and worthless" and other derogatory sentiments about our people, but fat chance. I'd like to sbumit to you that you would only be doing yourself a favor if you were to simply change your attitude about your culture. Until then, your vision will be dimmed to blindness to the greatness of our PanAfrikan civilization. Until then, you'll see yourself as no more than a slave descendant nurtured only by your submersion/subjugation in western culture, brutally victimized and stunted by folk who resemble you in appearance.

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

You are most welcome. Please take it in bit by bit, very slowly.

Peace, Love.

Nia M.

Sister Nia, thank you for your post. I do not disagree with most of what you wrote. But I'm not sure I understand your views about us not having the ability to control our minds and why that's not a fact. I know that racism affects the mind and allows it to be manipulated by others. This is an obvious fact proven by the collection of experiences we have as Black people. I know what percentage of our brain capacity the majority of people actually use and that it's small compared to what we have access to and are capable of using. But if we don't do things that develop our minds--be they simple or complex things-- then I don't believe anything will change for us.

This is why you'll have to help me better overstand your comment about "authority." I don't see how anything we do is done without some thought being given to it. The physical home for thinking is our brain. Authority or any sense of it has to first be conceived in the mind, in my opinion. Behavior is a result of decisions/choices that we make. Knowledge "feeds" the mind where all ideas are conceived. Making an effort not to oversimplify possible solutions to change our condition, I do believe that there are ways we can battle our condition by using our collective minds to conceive ideas and design tangible things we can do. What authority do we or anyone has without first a thought being conceived that makes us believe that we have some authority. What do we have authority of?

I also believe that there is a place for simple approaches. Sometimes simple approaches to a complex issue has value. "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time." We must consider all angles, all options, make every effort to maximize the use of our energy. But we don't remain at the simple level throughout. Throughout each phase of our existence, we must continue to develop our minds, increase the use of our brain power, and by doing that, maybe then we could see why turning the television off might have some merit.

And finally, yes, you're correct again...you and I are also brainwashed, and cannot escape the brainwashing entirely. I agree with that completely. Even though we might slip from time to time by thinking or behaving less than the Alkebulan culture soldiers that we are, it's a blessing for us and our people that we don't stay in that mindset for long. There's no simple approach to white supremacy. We've been exposed to it and under its control for too long. But I believe we can and am determined to help us overcome it.

Sister Nia, you are the voice of Nai'm Akbar and Frances Cress Welsing...they live through us as do our other powerful Ancestors. Keep sharing your knowledge in the circle of our community. We gather here to learn and to expose the truth as we should know it and embrace it.

Peace :heart:

?
My statements make no sense to you, because you have no overstanding of white supremacy, and as Neely Fuller Jr. aptly put it, consequently, "everything else you think you overstand will simply find you confused" (I'm paraphrasing here). This is why you propose simplistic, implausible solutions, such as "all the zombies, just throw out your teevees and other propagandistic media". Criminals, just stop committing crime, even though you're stacked up on top of everybody else around you in your modern day ghetto, about to simultaneously suffocate and die of starvation, and the tools for committing crimes are practically hung around your neck. Low IQ, poverty-stricken mamas, just say no to an extra $500.00+ in your pocketbook and a pill to make your child stop defying your authority and that of his schoolteachers. Pastors, we know you detest the evil dollar, so just hang up the phone when you get the call offering you a $million contract to develop your church property and programs.

And you call yourself Loving of Black Americans? All you have said is that it is okay to kill ourselves. People like you are sick. You love your culture so much you want them to be stuck and servile. For you respect of self and love of self and love of community means nothing. Be a criminal. Do not educate yourself. Stay in poverty. Be a Rich church in a poor and dying neighborhood. KILL KILL KILL YOURSELF.

How could someone lay that bs down here about hating Capitalism, but then say that it is okay for churches, and single poor mothers to operate within it's structure--- not to help themselves up, but just for money.

You wrote the words, and I responded... I convoluted nothing.

You are nothing but a White Supremist in Black Skin; and I'm not trying to understand anything you think--- it is there; and I have to much respect for myself and too much belief in Black Americans to fall for it.

But then again, you didn't write it, it was the White Man who wrote; after all he is controlling your mind.

Hotep, NNQueen. Please see my replies intertwined below, displayed in Navy.

Sister Nia, thank you for your post. I do not disagree with most of what you wrote. But I'm not sure I understand your views about us not having the ability to control our minds and why that's not a fact.

You are most welcome, and what I am suggesting is not that we do not have the ABILITY to control our own thinking, beliefs, perceptions. We simply (most of us) do not have the will or the discipline or the mental energy OR THE COURAGE to actively and consistently filter out the bs that is a neverending current beamed through our consciousness and subconsciousness, majority of the time sidestepping our antennae. I'm here to tell you, it can sometimes be a psychically exhausting, dejecting effort to process some of the stuff when you actually are hit with the reality of some of the worst of what is going on. ESPECIALLY when you think of the numbers of us who have NO clue what is going on. THAT'S terrorism. Recognition is the WORST terror.

But if we don't do things that develop our minds--be they simple or complex things-- then I don't believe anything will change for us.

I'm not sure I'm clear on what you are speaking of, but I think I agree. One thing we must do is elevate the consciousness of those whose consciousness is subdued. DaveyD (to name one example) has been incredibly instrumental in this effort. DESTEE is incredibly instrumental in this effort. Folk like them are reaching large, diverse numbers of our people, many of whom wouldn't otherwise take an interest in these types of discussions, but because they have something unique that draws all kinds (Hip Hop focus, Poetry focus), man, it is THE opportunity to revolutionize the thinking of those who need it. There are not too many Ebony brothers & sisters out here who have enough clout or pull or resources to challenge the Mass Ignorance Movement in this way, or any way. But as Runoko Rashidi once expressed to me (after I somewhat naiively exclaimed, "Brother, this is EXACTLY what the people need, to change the way things are! If everyone could be hipped to this information, oppression would end abruptly!), it is not even enough to simply try to wake folk up, because awareness demands action, and most are not ready or willing to fight. To add to that, ignorance is the most comfortable position in which one can find oneself. That was my whole point in my response to comfy. I mean happy.

This is why you'll have to help me better overstand your comment about "authority." I don't see how anything we do is done without some thought being given to it.

Now come on, NN. You know darn well that 85% of us CONSTANTLY do stuff without thinking. Cash ya social security check and take the whole thing to the casino. Utility bill due, but so are your kitchens for a touchup, and your nails for a fill-in, but your'e a little short on funds and your appearance doesn't have a grace period. Purchase a Benz or Expedition for 50 grand and work two jobs to pay the note, all the while paying rent where you live. Why do Black folk have a love affair with trinkets that depreciate fast??? MIND CONTROL.

Authority or any sense of it has to first be conceived in the mind, in my opinion. What authority do we or anyone has without first a thought being conceived that makes us believe that we have some authority. What do we have authority of?

Not a thing. We rely first and foremost upon THEIR corrupted, mistranslated spiritual texts, and their caucazoid deity. That being the case, I need not even offer further examples. How many Nubians do YOU know who can conceive of an Afrikan, Africoid deity that is the Supreme Authority? The concept you speak of is already ingrained indelibly in the minds of the masses, ESPECIALLY the BLACK masses. Our minds have been programmed FIRST AND FOREMOST to consider the Supreme Ruler to be WHITE, and consequently, incidentally, every other authority over everything else to be white as well.

I also believe that there is a place for simple approaches. Sometimes simple approaches to a complex issue has value.

It has no value if it is not at the very least feasible.

Throughout each phase of our existence, we must continue to develop our minds, increase the use of our brain power, and by doing that, maybe then we could see why turning the television off might have some merit.

I cannot figure out why the obvious is not obvious here. Who said the idea of turning off the telllievision has no merit??? Also, unless I'm misreading, the above statement seems to suggest that "in this phase of MY existence" (which "phase" would that be?), I'm not developing my mind and increasing the use of my brain power as I should be, therefore I'm unable to consider the merits of turning off the telllievision. Either I'm trippin' (which I hope is the case), or the level of this discussion has plummetted.

Sister Nia, you are the voice of Nai'm Akbar and Frances Cress Welsing...they live through us as do our other powerful Ancestors.

:screaming: :eeek: PLEEEEEEEEEEASE don't send my mentors to an early grave!!!!! They've got a WHOOOOOOLE lot more decades to go before joining the Ancestors!!! (Please, someone throw a glass of WATER in my face!) :hammer:

?
And you call yourself Loving of Black Americans? All you have said is that it is okay to kill ourselves. People like you are sick. You love your culture so much you want them to be stuck and servile. For you respect of self and love of self and love of community means nothing. Be a criminal. Do not educate yourself. Stay in poverty. Be a Rich church in a poor and dying neighborhood. KILL KILL KILL YOURSELF.

How could someone lay that bs down here about hating Capitalism, but then say that it is okay for churches, and single poor mothers to operate within it's structure--- not to help themselves up, but just for money.

You wrote the words, and I responded... I convoluted nothing.

You are nothing but a White Supremist in Black Skin; and I'm not trying to understand anything you think--- it is there; and I have to much respect for myself and too much belief in Black Americans to fall for it.

But then again, you didn't write it, it was the White Man who wrote; after all he is controlling your mind.

happy69, do you mind if I ask your age? How could it be that everything I wrote could fly 10,000 feet over your head? :confused:

I tell you where Europeans are smart, in uniting even though their intercontinental history is tinged with conflict and oppression and traitorous betrayal between nations and cultures.

They now have the European Union, a supranational economic unit with a 25 country strong membership [and growing] with ties to the US and Israel, whose interests and motives are that of ensuring the continuation of imperial white supremacy under the guise of a global community or marketplace.

That's where they are smart, or rather, have some common sense, not in this ignorant and deluded misconception that some of them do not treat their women badly [or as badly] as some black men or that they are too smart to do it [lol] in public, or that they are, in any way, our [black men, women, whatever] betters, what utter tripe and nonsense!

I don't have to start bringing up such things as pornography [how more public do you want to get] or some white male celebrities who have been charged and imprisoned for beating their wives or girlfriends, I'm sure you know of these men [as if the beating of a woman by a man in private is any smarter or more, what?... honourable? - than doing so in public, pfft.


Even though Europe has had its abundantly fair share of intercontinental strife, animosity and bloodshed, in regards to Africa and Africans, they move and act monolithically to maintain, nuture and emphasize the status quo in regards to wealth sharing and one's place in the world based on ethnic background.

Such examples abound, World wars I & II, England's victimization of the the Irish [who themselves are known to have traded in European slaves from their raids on Roman Britain and the continent] in an effort to separate the Irish church from the papacy, the atrocious viking raids on Britiain, the slavery systems of Greece and Rome, visigothic Spain, Iceland, Russia on which the good health of the economic and social structures of the aforemtioned countries of the 'old world' depended, but in the face of the African question, they habour no ill feeling for past wrong doings [or they put it to one side], they are agreed, exploitation and continued denigration of blacks the world over is essential to their continued prosperity and so this is the nature of OUR struggle.

This is why I believe [and thankfully, for the sake of my sanity included, others do too] Africans the world over should move together as one as regards the struggle, and it boggles my mind, at any rate, as to why we don't all think this way, especially in regards to allowing outsiders to partake of black creative genius, only to time and again, steal the blasted thing.

The only thing we should imitate where Europeans are concerned, is their will for unity regardless, a family may have their problems that between them, look to be irreparable or from which there is no redemption, but try causing one member of that family of people suffering and see how quickly the other members [no matter what the issues behind 'closed doors'] come to their aid.

Saying things like black men are pathetic or white men are smart because they pummel their women with the shades drawn or the like [what planet are you on because that isn't the case on my Earth!] reeks of white supremacist conditioning, that whites are inherently better even when they behave badly, that no matter what we do, there's no way we can match them, which as we know, is uninformed, antiquated and ignorant.


I am not 'black'. None of us are. But I am 'human', as we ALL ARE HUMAN

Try telling that to the so called European 'elites' who would [if they completely had things their way] see all Africans dead or reintroduced to slavery, attending to task considered beneath the former, similar to, well exactly the same as what the Dalits of India were [and are]made to suffer under a violently racist Hindu system, where is the recognition of their humanity?

We are humans...pfft.

Save that idealist nonsense for coca cola ads, or maybe take a job working as a writer for Benetton (sp?).

Here in the real world, everyone is assigned a place in the world based on skin colour [phenotype], black on the bottom, in terms of world view and whites on the top with the lower and upper intermediate positions being conferred on the basis of the degree to which one is dark or pale skinned respectively; in addition to one's complicity within the system [conscious or otherwise].

That is the system into which all are cast from birth, regardless of their say [if they could say anything at birth] on the matter, that is reality.

Therefore it only makes prudent sense to me to side with other people of like [in this case, Africans] with a view to overcoming this reality and changing it.

There are people who are poor and there are the people who are responsible for their poverty. Poverty is not color-coded, nor is greed and hate. To solve a problem, the solution must be worked at from all angles to cover every possibility, not just one color or 'race' of people or their ideas of it.


Poverty may not be colour coded by that is not the issue in regards to what I talk about. I talk about the effort to depopulate the continent of Africa and control the minds of Africans world wide, the issue is whether there IS an concerted effort to:

1) Do away with a good portion of the African people so as to free up world resources for the use of not just the European elite, but the masses to whom the aforementioned refer to as 'flim flam peasant stock'.

2) Ensure that Africans never unite, the first component of the 'divide and rule' strategy that European have quite adequately utilised in an effort to ensure 'one' is brought to fruition.

When you look at the distribution of Africa's wealth you can see that it is indeed colour coded with Africans owning practically nothing in their own land.
Most of it is shipped out as raw material then shiiped back in as the finished product, at exhorbitant prices.

Here's another example of the helping hand we shouldn't slap away, just in case this time, they're genuine.

http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/Glaxo-Ghana-AIDS-Drugs.htm

Better minds than I possess have reached the same conclusion, Africans where ever must unite, and others have taken that view further and deemed it necessary to separate ourselves from whites.

African denigration, the lack of value placed on the lives of Africans, the proxy wars fought on behalf of the US [financed by the US] on the continent, the emerging evidence for AIDS being a man made disease and its introduction to Africa, tainted immunisations, the Catholic church advocating that Africans not use condoms, even though you'd think the pope would preach differently.

The catholic church and its 'well meaning' attempts to save the savages from hell!, killing 250 million Native Americans alone with newly introduced diseases, the equivalent number of people in Europe at the time.

And I'm sure some of those whites genuinely had people's best interests at heart but the sum total of their interference was death, loss, suffering and something akin to hell.

Do the reading on the Roman Catholic church who [within the United Nations] have persisted in preventing the distribution of condoms and the dissemination of infomation in this regard, which would save millions of lives.

They persist in this regard where women in developing countries are concerned, the catholic church having gone on record as saying, "women are vessels of excrement".

Yet they claim officially to believe all are equal in God's eyes, that may be true but God is not the head of their church, again if you do the reading you will find out what I mean, another example of the helping hand you talked about?


The way you perceive the world limits your ability to progress emotionally and spiritualy. While you resent what has become of you at the hands of europeans, it is shortsighted in that you cannot see that it was motivated by the greed of a very few individuals. Sure the 'europeans' are responsible for much of what you complain, but it is only because of their power which enabled them to do so.

The greedy apirations may have begun as those of a priviledged few, but their ideologies [created for the purposes of justifying their avarice] have filtered down through the layers of society and have now taken root in the minds [in varying degrees] of the great majority [even some blacks] and have created an insatiably gluttonous western society that is completely concerned with material wealth gain.

The wealth of the European elites is largely to be found tied in with western corporations who are the scourge of such places as Africa and South America while the media [also owned and controlled by them] continue to spew forth negative image after unflattering protrayal of blacks in general so as to act as escort along one's routes of thinking to further aid in softening any emotions experienced as a result of witnessing the sufferings of others, together with violence in general in TV [remember how the first to die in a movie was always black?, well now blacks have the means to fight back, ie, they are not in chains anymore, you get the odd fim here and there where the black may die last or not die at all; blacks walk out of the cinema thinking, well at least he didn't die first, things must be getting better lol]

And it is not just the European elite that are behind this, it is everyone who falls for the promise of power and wealth, or that they are in danger of losing what they already own or that what they do is for the good of whatever.

It wasn't the European elites who physically pulled the trigger on King, it wasn't the European elites who pulled the trigger on Assata, it was not the European elites physically writing letters to the pope in an attempt to bring her back or that denied Mumia the right to a fair trial and lied about him on oath, its not the European elites who physically killed Steven Bico, who said, "The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of oppressed.".
It's not the European elites who pull up next to a young black couple and blow their heads off for no other reason than they are black, and the fact that they are trying to earn their stripes to be inducted into one of several extreme right wing groups within the US forces.
It wasn't the European elites who killed Steven Lawrence, a black British teenager set upon and stabbed to death ten years ago by 16 known to be racist youths.

Ordinary people consumed with hate do these things and this hate is a result of [amongst others] of the Theosophical theories that were core to the dementedly racist belief systems of the European 'blue bloods'.

Btw, did you know the term 'blue blood' came from the fact that the aristocracy ate and drank using silverware, because of this, they contracted a condition called Argyria which gives the sufferer [amongst other things] a blueish colouration to their skin and the whites of their eyes resulting from silver salts and large silver compounds that where unable to pass through the system and therefore, accumilated in the tissues.

The European elites are not stupid, they cannot be seen to advocate belief systems and behaviours akin to that of the nazi's, who incidently, were directly influenced by such theories of the European elite as those contained within the cult of Theosophy with its racist ideas on the evolution of man.

They have always remained hidden and used the European bourgeoisie to push forth their views on the order of things and the military/industrial complex to appropriate [steal]
resources that does not belong to them, these days with the help of stupid Africans [a good example being the Selous scout, the former colonial secret service, who under the directions of the British goverment, hire local African thugs [who I bet get paid tuppence, but to them it is something] and with them, roam and terrorize other Africans so as to give the world the impression that Africans are incapable of looking after themselves and it is best that Europeans take over.

Hence why at African independence, the feudalistic royal aristocracies of Europe and the US used the World Bank and the IMF tp approach African countries with that offer of a helping hand and have since introduced structural adjustment programs that have never worked, ever!, and keep making thing worse, or to quote an article I recently read on the history of the WB and IMF

http://www.xat.org/xat/history3.html Read it, it's an eye opener.

Nations borrow Special Drawing Right from the International Monetary Fund in order to pay interest on their mounting debts. With these SDR's produced at no cost, the IMF charges more interest. This contrary to bold claims does not alleviate poverty or further any development. It just creates a steady flow of wealth from borrowing nations to the money changers who now control the IMF and the World Bank.

If a group or organisation had used its hard earned money to help these developing nations, then we might sympathise that there should be a real effort to repay these loans. But the money used was created from fractional reserve banking. The money loaned to the Third World came from the 90% the banks allow themselves to loan on the 10% they actually held. It didn't exist, it was created from nothing, and now people are suffering and dying in an effort to pay it back.


Go do the reading on the history of that, I don't see why I should waste my time typing it out for you, go read!

As Henry Kissinger [not himself, a member of European aristocracy]said, "We're bombing them to save them from themselves".

Or in other words, they are useless, they are incapable, the 'wretched of the earth' and it is up to us to put them out of their misery for their own sake.

Who in their right, sane mind should refuse that kind of a helping hand?????

You are the one who is in the possession of a limiting point of view [when blacks think in that fashion], go read the FACTS, that is, they have occurred, have been said and written or are playing out today as I type this.

This 'we are the world' crap is the exact thing that keeps blacks way down at the bottom, always begging whites, whose leaders [hidden and in the public eye] think of them as cannon and biological warfare fodder [they don't? go do the reading], to see the light, when blacks have it all, resources, brains, land, culture, creativity and the rest.

You think if blacks side with whites, those in power and who have been in power for centuries [and some of who believe they are descended from Christ] are just going to let go because people who they refer to as, 'flim flam peasant stock' start living in harmony, which as I have explained is a 'reality' for the heavily sedated, pfft.

As long as the majority agrees, the minority is powerless. The more of the majority that joins the minority, the bigger the minority becomes until *it* is the majority. My ideals encompass all humankind, regardless of color or ancestral history. The only way to affect change is by gathering like minds and reducing those minds to skin tone severely limits one's options.

I sincerely hope you black folk are not falling for the same old smokescreen.

By bringing all peoples together and making One of them as the earth is one. If you really want to overcome your reality and change it, it won't be by deflecting the hands of those who can help you.

Who says blacks need the help of whites?

Oh you mean, like the World Bank and the International Monetery Fund that have helped Africa amass a 300 billion debt [and rising] that has helped to reduced the average lifespan in Africa from 70 [circa 1950] to present day 29.

[B]Everytime whites have held hands with blacks it has been in order to benefit themselves, when they got what they wanted they abandoned blacks.

Women did it, homosexuals did it, the World bank did and do it, the IMF did and do it, the G8 did and do it [and did it when they were the G7], the G8 donor communities do it.... need I go on?

In regards to Africa, I've said it before, in keeping Africa without power, Africans world wide are afforded none at the local level [why? what are the consequences]

You mean the helping hand where while Tony Blair can tell you that Britian will not tolerate racism in any form, the country thens vote against reparations for slavery and racism at the World Conference against Racism?

That is EXACTLY the helping hand Africans don't need, and to date, it is the helping hand they've been offered so why should they accept or even listen to those that stick their helping hand out....the hand that first appears kind and benevolent but is a wolf in sheeps clothing, ready to kill, squash, oppress and forsake as and when it suits.

If those truly god natured whites want to do something to effect change, that's nice, good luck to you, but I believe it is wise [not necessarily convenient or the most convenient nor is it an easy task] for Africans do it things on their own, amongst themselves.

While that will not completely do away with the threat of people who are consumed with only self interest, it will reduce their numbers [logically so] and the confusion, and instill confidence, in that Africans are handling their business on their own!

And if that means Africans miss out on what was a genuine offer of help, too bad, I'd rather miss out on help from whites and continue plugging away than to trust them and end up badly.

What is real, what has happened, what is happening, what has been written, what has been said,that is what is real to me, not the starry blind eyed, sickly sweet philosophies of the unread and gullible, whose benightedly naive visions are not even partially rooted in historical or contemporary reality.

And believe it or not, I say that with no disrespect intended but come on, look around you!

Greetings, old_sd73, and welcome to the boards. You know, I read over your statements, your philosophy, and I have this to say in response:

You have a potentially good point. Not "black", but human. Interesting. Liberal. Broader thinking. But I can go one better. I'm not even human. I'm an Earthling. Just the same as all the other creatures about me on this planet.

Oh, but no. That would be to separate myself into a category exclusive from that of other creatures beyond planet Earth. Creature. Yes, I'm a creature.

No. That would set me apart from that which was not actually created, such as the Creator Itself. I am a Being.

But then, that would distinguish me from all objects which are not beings. I'm getting closer to what it is that I am. I am existence. I am existence itself. But are there not things that don't actually exist? Perhaps not? I don't think there is anything that does NOT exist, because if there is a conception of it, then it exists conceptually. Perhaps I am merely a concept. O.k., so I am a concept.

But that would be a label. How about we just say that I am what I am. I simply am. I am.

Uzoka, I have to give it to you, Brother. Your knowledge and wisdom--compared to most--surpasses your years. I concur with all your sentiments from your shorter post, and will read the remainder of your longer post that I didn't finish, when time permits. :teach:

That's got to be the the nicest thing I've had said about me, thank you Nia, although, you may not agree with the gist of my longer post hehe.

Peace

Peace old_sd73,

Your attempt at racial reconciliation for the broader good of humanity and your advocacy against poverty and injustice may be eloquent and thoughtful, but it’s blustering full of platitudes, romanticisms and misguided optimisms that are fostered by your unrealistic and abstract view of the world.

First of all, you want to disregard color. When I hear this proposition, as some type beginning for “human harmony”. I find this disingenuous proposal by whites or anybody else FULL OF CRAP. To exclude the natural phenomenon of color and hues from the psyche (which is impossible) to, in some convoluted way, appease and cajole Black people, is insulting to those people who are blessed to have the tones of the earth in their skin. It is abominable and racist for somebody to ignore this obvious ordination by God (called, MELANIN). So-called color-blindness is a racist substitution for whites inability to accept, the peoples of color normality’s, in contrast to their own, most obvious, abnormality (the absence of color). I have always found this patronizing gesture of goodwill, condescending and pathological. For whites attempts at psychologically removing from me (in their own minds) what they do not possess (color) in order for us to relate on a socially “equal” level, is more than disingenuous, but truly “pathetic”. __________(There’s that word again,_LOL)

Quote: old_sd73

“Were you to be entrusted with a black and white poor person, there is no doubt you would allow one to prosper over another”

Unquote


You make this supposition that poverty is a great equalizer, to sort of, solidify your overall argument. There may be some truth, to the fact, that impoverished whites are subjugated and disavowed by the upper stratums of their own society, but recognizing this fact, doesn’t address the underlining factors, regarding the survival of African people in this genocidal world environment. Matter of fact, regardless of our political ideas, Blacks have never hindered the upper mobility or overall well-being of “poor” whites; be their “welfare” “entrusted (?)” to us or not. Many times it’s the “poor” whites that are foolishly beguiled and recruited at the end, of the “long arm of the law”, and used as the antagonist and exterminators of African people. They were usually given promotions into the more accepted and functional classes of Euro/American society for their services as police men, slave catchers, posse members, terrorist and just outright “n*gg*r haters”.

It’s always when African people try to unite we are summoned, before, “The white inquisitors of legitimate beliefs and reasonable actions”, who investigate our motives and try to emotionalize our grievances, as if we have no natural responsibility, intellectual rationale or ethical arguments governing our lives. Our academic dissertations, collective indignations and personal understanding, of the “white racist phenomenon” are disregarded.

We are surely the invisible people, as it applies to history, opinion, intellect and existence.

You don’t understand the fact that our existence and history is unique and extraordinary in everyway. Instead of this (black pride) always being viewed as the “wicked” antithesis to “white” supremacy, it should be exalted, as “the blessing” the world needs; a counter-balance or deactivating force, to the imbalanced white psyche.

The Jews are rarely scorned for their uniqueness and isolationist attitudes; the Italians are never rebuked for their cultural peculiarities and whites, in general, are never discouraged, for the promotion or critique of European history, mores or lifestyles. But, when we tell our truths or promote our experiences or speculate on our role in the human story, we are chastised and dismissed.

Even though whales and pigs and squirrels are mammals. They all have unique and peculiar characteristics and to ignore their uniqueness tells you nothing about either or the broad zoological classification of mammals, as a whole.

To try to resolve all ills of all people with the same medicine, although the diagnoses and prognosis of one, is different from that of the other, is foolishness; It’s like selling societal reforming “snake oil”.

That which saves a people in Appalachia will not necessarily reform the ills of the ghetto, barrio or African village. And the philosophical constructs and religious mores that catapulted European societies cannot always address the progressive reformations needed for African countries or communities. It is obvious that the “European way”, though his ingredients were borrowed and even stolen, was designed to set European/white society above all others, with the rest of humanity prodded into being marginalized consumers and parasitical end-users.

Even a Martian can see this.

Peace,

Sun Ship

My original statement (Sun Ship)

“The Jews are rarely scorned for their uniqueness and isolationist attitudes; the Italians are never rebuked for their cultural peculiarities and whites, in general, are never discouraged, for the promotion or critique of European history, mores or lifestyles. But, when we tell our truths or promote our experiences or speculate on our role in the human story, we are chastised and dismissed.”

old_sd73, response
Quote:

“See this, you believe Jews to be white and all these other white folk to be 'non'white'”

unquote


What???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . Are you sure, that was what I implied, I gave specific ethnic cases (of white people) and then made a general observation (about white people).

It seems that after, you consumed the phrase “misguided optimism” from my previous post; it made you totally misconstrue the content that followed.

Honesty and truth is a very noble characteristic of those who are spiritually endowed. This is closer to the spiritual path than superfluous panderings directed towards an illusive humanity, supposedly imbued somewhere in the hearts of our oppressors. Your views are very allegorical, as you ferret and grope for the so-called innate “love-qualities”, hidden subliminally in the morals and ethics of this deceptively cruel and spiritually void society.

Constructed, reinforced and embraced by most Caucasians. This society was designed for the pursuit of (their) happiness, excluding all others.

So I guess you believe something like the following, “Lets all love on the mountain of systemic racism and white cultural domination and I guess, all will go well, as long as our white brothers feel unthreatened”.

It’s truth that sets a man free, not platitudes and romanticized rhetoric.

Brutal societies have always cherished their treatises of romantic love poems and prose to mask, their absence of “true” love and compassion. Until whites are able to devalue their psycho-cultural constructs, that has made their “white-ness” the center of the “human” universe. There is very little to be accomplished on a societal level.

Peace,

Sun Ship

If you were not so focused on what you believe to be the value of money, you would realize that nothing of your argument is relevant. If there were no money, there would be no problem with solving the issues that you decry

Me?... focused on money or its value?.
I refer to something within the human character far older than the $.

Your most recent post, taking in to account the millions of Africans, South Americans, Indochinese, Bangladeshi, Chileans, East Timorese and Cypriots, Cambodians and inhabitants of Laos etc who have been killed, tortured, and terrorized as a result of what you erroneously believe to be an obsession with money, is an insult, and is vapidly lacking in any degree of honesty, and to paraphrase, is a load of crap.

And in light of your dismissive ramblings despite my touching on the painful realities of this world, you are in no position to accuse me of a failure to comprehend your stale and meaningless sentimentalities, which blacks have heard before many times.

Obviously the point of the link concerning money didn't even come within a square mile of your understanding.

The whole point of the link was to show you that MONEY DIDN'T EXIST, or rather, it's value did not exist at its conception and technically does not exist today, beginning with the Bank of England] was based on nothing, therefore is invalid, but for the belief that it does carry value.

Yet the issues which I and two-thirds of the world's population 'decry' were created nevertheless and have not been solved, continuing to worsen with millions around the world being displaced, killed etc every year.

What can we learn from this then, money is not the problem, it is greed, greed is not the pursuit of money, it is the pursuit of power, or on the scale of which I speak, the depriving of access to things of vital importance to other people so as to derive from them their obedience.

http://www.ckln.fm/~asadismi/kissinger.html

http://www.ckln.fm/~asadismi/articles.html


I am not influenced by money, and Bill Gates is no different from the corner bum to me. I would do the same for both if they needed my help. I would simply do it for the poorer man faster. Money is actually one of my favorite targets. I plan to one day burn a pile of millions in currency just for the benefit of the materialistic people watching. It would fill me with the utmost joy.

If I could, I'd burn it all. Which leaves you to a stalemate. Your argument is material, mine is spiritual. You cannot comprehend my position while yours is based on the physical


What you have said here negates nothing contained within my closing remarks or within the main body of the post preceding my last, you do not see blacks as your lesser, good for you, but it changes nothing in regards to what blacks must do if they ever want to be assured of the right to self determination in every aspect, on their own as separate from whites and free of European white supremacist impurities.

You do not control the multinational corporations who rape and plunder their way across the globe on the interests of imperialist greed, with the financing of paramilitary forces to do away with people who right is access to the lands they are indigenous to.

You do not control the judiciary and law enforcement systems that, guided by virulently racist principles [again that have their origins amongst the so called European bloodlines of The Holy Grail -who stragely ignore that Jesus was supposed to have been a jew], disproportionately incarcerate blacks, neither do you control the minds of those in the media who persist in a one dimensional rendering of what it means to be black that consults them little.

You do not preside over the Third World policies of the IMF and the WB.

You control neither the proletarian mode of thinking or that of the bourgeoisie, both of whom in the interests of self, simply do their job and are only to happy to surrender independence of thinking [or as I said, are swept up in the materialism of the West], or who are consciously active in their collusions.

http://www.ckln.fm/~asadismi/usterrorism.html
____________________________________________

One keeps hoping that the American people will rein in their government. But the criminally vicious Bush II Administration has had the overwhelming support of the U.S. population for its wars. 75% of Americans supported the war on Iraq and 70% of them believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the World Trade Center attack even though there is no proof for this. One has to ask, what is wrong with these people? Are they as Michael Moore writes, an "idiot nation"? Are their minds so commodified by consumerism and television that they believe anything an unelected President tells them? But to understand this one has to go back to the origins of the U.S. state and society. As one American said after seeing the World Trade Center collapse, "We should go and wipe 'em out just like we did the Injuns."
____________________________________________

Now if you wish to contend an ultimate intercession on the part of the supernatural in the affairs of (wo)man, well that is a matter of opinion, and I must admit, I would like to believe this but again, if blacks are to begin to chart their own way, it must be on their own terms, the spiritual included, apart from others...with the push for a strong home, for with that comes a strong family and since HISTORY, the great teacher [if you choose to listen] has shown that Africans, having entrusted their future to and held hands with others, ended up in a position no better but more more often times than not worse [physically, materially and spiritually speaking] than before that trust was given....then the alternative should now be explored, that being complete self reliance combined with independent explorative restoration, [requiring a purging of outside influences which to date have given us absolutely nothing but taken much, too much].

As I said before, if genuine well meaning whites wish to create a better world then do so on your own, you don't need us, never have, unless it was [along with carefully concealed intention] to take what belongs to us.

The struggle in Africa is between africans and whites just instigated it

Wrong again, my ignorant, oblivious and apathetically indifferent friend.

The struggle in Africa was/is conceptualized, instigated, exacerbated, controlled and financed by whites who often take active part, via such methods as counter insurgency contracts being given to former western army personnel to the training of the local security units trained in the aforementiined techniques and measures, to the hiring of local thugs, financing their use of firearms and the like with a view to supporting a proxy war on behalf of whites.

http://mediafilter.org/caq/CAQ57Racism.html


Still alive when these trophy photos were taken,
Shidane Arone, a Somali civilian, was tortured and
killed as a theft suspect by Canadian commandos, including Cpl.
Clayton Matchee with whom he is pictured.
_______________________________________

Members of the 2-Commando unit of the Airborne Regiment took that license literally while serving in Somalia as part of the international peacekeeping force. Canadians were appalled to learn that regiment members had tortured and murdered a Somali teenager whom they suspected of theft and had photographed the crime. It was one of several illegal killings carried out by the group. There was no doubt that racism was an important ingredient in the crimes and a persistent component of military life in Somalia.
Some of the troops had renamed Operation Restore Hope, Operation Smash *******. A video taken by another Canadian commando unit which depicted hazing rituals in the elite unit showed recruits simulating anal and oral sex and being forced to eat vomit and bread soaked in their urine. The unit's lone black recruit was put on a dog leash and forced to walk on all fours with the words I love the KKK scrawled on his back in human excrement.


These wars are incapable of occurring with the severity that they have done and continue to do, without outside backing.

For instance,

Somalia: 1992

From 1979 -1989, Maj. Gen. Mohammed Siad Barre’s regime received roughly $1 billion in US military and economic aid, including $154million in weapons deliveries. US arms deliveries accounted for 31% of Somalia’s arms imports from 1985 to 1989.5

With that kind of an 'instigation' is it any wonder that some war have been in existence for more that a decade with the longest running war in Africa of 27 odd years occurring in Angola.

http://www.ckln.fm/~asadismi/africa02.html

Angola

Another U.S.-made disaster is the 27-year long civil war in Angola (Africa's longest-running war) which ended in April 2002; the conflict killed 500,000 people and shattered the country. The U.N. has warned of a catastrophe in Angola, where half a million people face starvation (as a result of the war) and more than a million depend on food aid for survival. Thousands of people have died of hunger over the last few months, and more are dying every day. According to the BBC, "It is the worst starvation to hit Southern Africa in over a decade." Three and a half million Angolans (a third of the population) have been displaced by the war and eight to fifteen million land mines cover Angola making agriculture hazardous. As a result, fertile Angola has to import half its food requirements. There are 100,000 disabled land mine victims, 82% of Angolans live in poverty and a child dies of a preventable disease every three minutes. Like the Congo, Angola is rich in mineral wealth: it is Africa's second largest oil producer (after Nigeria) with some of the largest offshore oil deposits in the world, and its diamond output is worth about $800 million a year.

The civil war started with Angola's independence from Portugal in 1975 when the left-wing Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA) took power and Washington launched a CIA covert operation in July to overthrow it. The operation was the brainchild of Henry Kissinger who was then Secretary of State in the Ford Administration. The CIA at the time was led by George Bush Sr. The CIA plan included backing a South African invasion of Angola in October and support for Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA), an opponent of the MPLA, led by the brutal Jonas Savimbi. UNITA was an agent of the Portuguese colonial regime; its task was to destroy the MPLA, and it had received aid from apartheid South Africa whose invasion it joined. The U.S. asked for the South African invasion and helped Pretoria airlift men and materiel up to the front line so the latter could seize the capital Luanda and stop the MPLA from establishing itself as Angola's first independent government. Before South African forces could reach Luanda, however, Cuban troops landed there in November and beat back the apartheid army.

The CIA operation spent $31.7 million on arming UNITA and the South Africans before being shut down by Congress in 1976; U.S.aid to UNITA resumed in 1985 under the Reagan Administration and Savimbi received $250 million between 1986 and 1991. U.S. support for Savimbi reached a record $50 million in 1989 when George Bush Sr. became President. As one observer put it, "Two military supply flights a day maintained a UNITA campaign that became increasingly brutal and destructive. Savimbi...by this time...was reduced to naked coercion. Men were forced to fight for his army, women were dragooned into sexual slavery and peasant farmers had their food seized. Those who challenged his authority would be accused of witchcraft and burnt alive along with their families." According to Human Rights Watch, UNITA forces "engaged in indiscriminate shelling, long-term sieges that starved civilians, summary executions, torture, mutilation of the dead, hostage-taking, and attacks on international relief operations." The European Parliament denounced U.S. aid to Savimbi and declared UNITA "a terrorist organization which supports South Africa."

Washington's support for Savimbi continued even after the Cubans withdrew in 1991 and the U.S.S.R. collapsed. The U.S. finally recognized the Angolan government in May 1993 under Clinton. By then Savimbi was able to finance his war through diamonds smuggling; the conflict ended after he was killed by government troops in February 2002

And at other times, instigation, or rather infection, is all that is needed with little participation on the part of Africansm other than to make a clenched fist.


http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/aids_origin.htm

In his well known report WHO MURDERED AFRICA, Dr. William Campbell Douglass, M.D., wrote that HIV was finally produced (genetically engineered) in 1974, after having been PREDICTED and REQUESTED! He tells us that the AIDS virus by the WHO (World Health Organization), was not just a diabolical scientific exercise that got out of hand. It was a cold-blooded successful attempt to create a killer virus which was then used in a successful experiment in Africa. African AIDS was the result of the smallpox eradication vaccine program conducted by the World Health Organization during the 1970s. It was not an accident. It was deliberate!


See how he just casually brushed it off as if he were speaking about a bar room brawl that lasted all of 5 minute, where whites merely hurled a few insults and such to get things off the ground?, there's that dismissiveness rightly spoken of, which begs the question, if correct analysis in regards to the dynamics behind [or that run parallel with] the struggle mean that little to him, why is he here? hmmm, though he claims love for any and everyone, he hasn't once commented on the points I brought up concerning world wide African slaughter and terrorization historically or present day, or even tried to verbalise an understanding that a people who have been tricked time and again, may be of the opinion that, several times bitten, even more so shy.

The struggle in Africa is between africans and whites just instigated it

Here you use the many different names of people who share at the very least one thing in common: they were all oppressed by the powerful and in this day and age, that means the wealthy, and not necessarily the wealthy leaders. Nor do I believe this to be a case of an obsession with money. To coin a phrase 'a rose by any other name'. In this case, evil, wickedness, selfishness, or as you seem to call it 'greed' is the cause and that comes down to the individual person


You're confusing yourself now.
That's not what you said in the first place, you didn't say anything came down to wickedness and selfishness and evil, you said:


If there were no money, there would be no problem with solving the issues that you decry

You believed money to be the root of all the evil of which I speak, and if it didn't exist then everything would be fine or an easy solution could be found, but I showed you that money was not the cause, that greed was since [to give the context in which I speak as an example] since the value of money did not exist.

Obviously your whole thinking on this matter is flawed since even if money didn't exist, you would still have the problem of ridding people of their greed, which in turn causes one to be wicked in order to satisy their greed, the circumstance depending.

Now you contend that wickedness etc is the cause, which is it, money or evil and wickedness, you cannot have both since one is older than the other and therefore existed without the other.

And don't say well wickedness led to the creation of money because you said quite quite clearly, if money didnt exist there'd BE NO PROBLEM.

Do not mistake the fact that I give several examples of peoples of diferring ethnic backgrounds for some sort of recognition of a common road on which all may travel in regards to effecting recovery and then prosperity.
I gave several examples to give you an idea as to the magnitude of you insults but I am concerned with Africa.

If it is your way to educate by belittling or name calling, it cannot be because you are more intelligent than I, just less compassionate

No, it's my way of belittling period, I have no intention of educating you, that is something you should do for yourself.

To me, the value of money is an illusion.
This appears to be the case with you, however we appear to have arrived at this conclusion by different means. Your assertion that 'money or it's value did not exist and does not today' is, and I'll paraphrase, 'a load of crap'.

But you say this without offering any evidence to show that the information I base this assertion on is a load of crap, therefore your comment is baseless.

Certainly money has value to those who have it. If you do not see that, it is you who 'is vapidly lacking in any degree of honesty'

Now you're really starting to confuse yourself, okay clearer this time.

That fact that money has value to those that have it is exactly what I said:

I said:

"The whole point of the link was to show you that MONEY DIDN'T EXIST, or rather, it's value did not exist at its conception and technically does not exist today, beginning with the Bank of England] was based on nothing, therefore is invalid, but for the belief that it does carry value."

In other words, the belief that it is does carry valueis what gives money its value.
Now for this belief to exist, surely someone is doing the believing, and its fair to assume that the people doing the believing are both people who have money and have not.

Therefore, how can I be lacking in any degree of honesty if I've basically said what you have said, and before you said it?


And you believe me to be ignorant of this because I view it in a different light than you? I am well aware of the suffering of the impoverished but what is your 'information' doing to change this?

You are simply stating the obvious and making a big show over it, but adding nothing constructive

The point is not what is my information doing to change this since to change things was not the intention of posting the information in respect to this discussion.
The point is why should blacks, in light of this information [which both encompasses historical and current reality] accept a helping hand from whites?


This too I have also concluded, but I have taken it a step further. I used to work as a computer administrator, now I sit at home all day with my wife and kids. I used to make 20 bucks an hour sitting at a computer monitor for ten hours a day, 4 days a week, with three glorious days off. Now I have 7 days off a week, am unemployed and no longer, as you put it 'deprived of my vitality and forced into obedience' thereby. I quit the system, pulled my kids out of public school, and I have all that I need. I actually have enough left over to help members of my family get what they need as well. I have gained knowledge and increased because I put it to use. Now, I wouldn't take another paying job no matter how much 'they' paid me. Not even a million dollars an hour. I simply don't care.

??

What?

What you've said here has nothing to do with my comments on the origins of the European's role in the creation of the struggle which is one of the reasons I posted the link on Africa and its crumbling economy and infrastructure.

The link, as I said before, was to show you that money wasn't the cause of the black struggle, which you believed it was [I've quoted you enough saying this which also indicates that you do not believe the spiritual has anything to do with it, money being material, if you truly did believe the spiritual had a part to play you would have come to the conclusion straight away that something within the human character is at fault, but you didn't, only after I showed you money had nothing to do with it.

But in regards to work, the sad fact is we now live in a world where money does have value [in that everyone believes this] you must work.

It is not just what 'blacks' must do. It is what we all must do. It is what humanity must do. If we blacks do it first, well and good. But if it does not spread to humanity, others will continue to suffer and not only under the hands of white 'supremacists'. Your hate is almost palpable

Again confused.
You mistake honesty for hatred, I comment on Africans who work against the interests of Africans, and I'm often more critical in the words I choose to use in my comments of them than I am of whites, then I must hate Africans.

I have criticised myself in past, then I must hate myself, question is was I being honest or did I pull those criticisms out of thin air?

Now, you agree that blacks must do something for themselves first, I would add that the part of whites is to let go of the system of white supremacy and seeing as they are the sole beneficiaries of this system and considering the emerged evidence that say they've taken oppression to a new level, I don't see it happening, nevertheless, black must ensure they are able to defend themselves on all fronts...again by getting rid of what is not relevant to them, and I really don't see how that can be done amongst whites even or by including whites in what we do.

I see us having to all return to Africa at some point and even then, whites will surely not leave us alone such would be their fear and outrage.


What is this supposed to mean? That you keep up with terrorist conspiracies? Are you *helping* anyone here?

Oh this is getting montonous.

Again, the points given in my posts to you are to list the reasons why blacks should do things on their own for a change.
And to use the word 'conspiracies' is to suggest that there is little basis for their existence, again, do the reading and you will see that they should be referred to as 'actualities'.


Nor do I wish to control these thingsWhat I do control is my own mind and by that, my world. The media I ignore. The grail means nothing to me. Jesus wasn't a Jew ('jew' didn't come into meaning until long after he was dead). But then again, what value does any of what you said have? Is there a point to this madness you suspect?

But you said 'we blacks' what you control, what you ignore, the grail's meaning to you does nothing to stem the tide of white supremacy so your comments here are irrelevant.

And even if you were white, I've already admitted the existence of good natured whites, but again it negates nothing in regards to whites making the first move in doing away with white supremacy, an unlikely event, which forces blacks to do things on their own since WS is counter black prosperity.

And as for Jesus being a jew, what I meant to say was that the European bloodlines of the Holy Grail believe themselves to be the 'king of the Jews' but to do not consider themselves to be Jewish.


Nor do they preside over me.

No, They preside over Africa and devoid of your benevolent leadership [that is if you were able to survive long enough to put your policies into effect] Africa suffers, therefore you're burning all money if you could comment again, carries with it no relevance, as you would still have the greed to deal with, money is created from nothing so if you burnt it all, they create more, from nothing.

More hate and dissention to no purpose? You are full of words but where is your promise? What are you 'doing' about all this? Other than talking?

Again the point in posting that article was to demonstrate that the hatred is not be found amongts the elite only, which was your original contention, or the few, it is far reaching and widespead and to be found within every societal layer.

My promise?

I could ask you the same questions.


Is the promise of solution a prerequisite to a right to discuss the problems, [or give them voice, or to give your opinion] inherent within black communities or outside forces that have a direct effects on the problems and why you personally believe black should work for self reliance?
And how did you reach the conclusion, not knowing anything about me that all I do is talk, , stick with what you know....that we are all humans and if money didn't exist there'd be no problems fixing things, and that staying home from work contributes to a move from the status quo to a more democratic order of things.

I do wish to content an ultimate supernatural intercession on the behalf of mankind. It will certainly happen and soon. The babylon system that rules the world will fall in a flaming heap, and I will be there dancing a jig, streaming tears of joy. Why? Because I anticipate the burden that is used to oppress and deny the indigenous of their rights to be lifted from them. The same burden that has already been lifted from me. When that happens, the weak will be strong and the illusion of material power will vanish.

Furthermore, my contention is History. Black African Hebrew Israelite History that says we will be reprieved of that which oppresses us and that we will make a strong push for our home on our own terms and that we will have the power of the God of Israel on our side. There will be no way to prevent our success. All who oppose will fall as babylon will fall. Not because we blacks are better or greater than any other, but because by strength of reason and righteousness we will change the world for the good of all and those who desire that change will join us.

Uh huh, so what you are saying is this is what you BELIEVE will happen, but you have not said HOW this happen, that is a matter of opinion and no matter what you say, it will not change my belief that it will be done through hard work on our part to restore ourselves and in doing so make others see, by force if necessary, in that we will be forced to defend ourselves against an enemy who as I have said before elsewhere, has never deigned to have others before or alongside him, hence the creation of white supremacy.


If this means you believe me to 'white', your assumption is sadly mistaken. I am quite black-skinned. My genuine well meaning intent is to equalize all by one rule: that of Compassion. It is also my genuine, well meaning intent to see destroyed everything and everyone not conducive to such a state of human existance. Not that it would be by my own hand, but my trust in the God of Israel is founded on the knowledge of Her and not in the belief of Her. Yes, I said 'Her'. Why? Because of knowledge.

In the near future, the world will be enveloped in an inferno in an effort to rid it of evil, the wicked, and to establish Truth for All Time. That effort will not be in vain. I will not be among the wicked. I desire to be untouched by the flame.

Yes I believe God to be both male and female, and yes I assumed you were white, as you sound so, in that you seem to ignore the realities, excuse me, you're placing your hope in what?, that it will turn out okay without us doing anything or by siding with the very people who are active in our destruction....pfft

You are black??? African? and yet you knew nothing of the factors [or your analysis is too narrow and ignore such factors a proxy war, divisive tactics of the US, Canadian, and European etc oil, telecommunication etc etc companies locally] involved in the troubles in Africa so you regurgitate typical ignorant European one liner such as:

The struggle in Africa is between africans and whites just instigated it.

The whole reason for my having posted there information, to show you this is not so and that instigation is ongoing [excerbation and financing].

Yet you claim to be in control of your mind or opinions contained therein.
Everytime I show you what you said is incorrect you hide behind the, 'what does this information do to change things' curtain.

That is not the point, the point is was I right in saying you were incorrect or rather, too fleeting.

You're either lying or ignorant, well then again, in light of another poster recent comments, you could well be black.

I was brought up to believe that if you do nothing you get nothing and I do not envisage whites giving up white supremacy without a fight, and Africans are in no position to fight, either offensively or defensively speaking.

I do not hate whites, I love blacks...Africans, and want to be assured we can defend ourselves....in the meantime I will be heading to Africa next year to do some aid work then back to england on a project I have in mind then back to Aus because....in the meantime, Africans are being killed waiting for the destruction of Babylon you speak of behind at your computer after 'a hard days work'.


What I see here is more dissention to no purpose. Where is the benefit in your words? Is there hope in them? Wisdom? Nothing can be gained by complaining about a problem. What are your solutions?

The purpose again, in the context of this discussion was to list WHY BLACKS SHOULD WORK TOWARDS THEIR OWN PROSPERITY as opposed to joing forces with people who in the past have never benefitted black even though they at first claimed that was their intention.

Why is the onus on me for solutions, I've seen nothing from you in that regard except dull platitudes about all of us being human and none of us being black.

I think most blacks here would agree with me when I say that Africans should do thing on their own.

I am not in possession of the complete blueprint for how blacks should go about doing things on their own but that much is obvious to me.
I know what I personally can do, and that first involves me going to Africa.

Now what are your solutions in the physical here and now in getting whites to relinquish white supremacy through loving them even as they tread daily on African dignity,