Hello Everyone,

A request has been made to divide the poetry category into sub-categories. One being for the "steamier" peaces and one for all others.

Poetry is art, and as such, nudity is often used. I'm thinking I could have the "steamier" category accessible only to those that choose admission/participation in it.

I personally don't want what would be considered "adult content" on the site, but many peaces are already here that some would classify as such. Considering the fact that registration is open to all those 13 and over, children are in our midst and we must act accordingly.

Having said all of this, there is only one person in our community that has ever been warned regarding the explicit poetry they've put here, so please don't think I'm speaking to "you," because I'm not.

This is simply a request, seeking the input of those who make this community what it is. Please share your thoughts with me.

Thanks,

Destee

...>appears from nowhere>

I think it would be a great idea. Especially for those that like to indulge in poetry with an erotic flare and colorful language.

<fades out to somewhere<...

I agree with Legend~~but also with you. With children in our midst it would be wise to have a sub catagory for the steamy peaces to be posted.

But I have a question: What would restrict the youth from reading in this sub-catagory???

Mama D,

My opinion would be no more categories. As the curator of our house, you ultimately have the last say in how you want us to conduct ourselves. I don't think we should bog the house down with subcategory after subcategory...Perhaps the registration age for this existing forum should be raised to 21 vice 13. If you desire to cater to young adults, why not develop a forum just for them???

Poetry, as you so eloquently stated, is art...it can be displayed in vivid and often times graphic detail.

The majority of our family of poets are housed in this forum and shouldn't have to jump around across the forum to read certain pieces.

Bottomline - I would say revisit the registration age and leave the original forum alone - have poets warn of the adult content in their posts and those who don't want to read "steam" have the personal option not to.

How do you police honest registration anyway?

Not adamant about this position - just giving my two cents...

Whatever the concensus of the fam, I can conform!!!

GQ

Thank you Legendof_1_Spirit and Afridancr.

Afridancr I'm thinking members wanting access to that category will have to email me requesting such, stating in the email that they are an adult. I will then give their username access to read/write to that category. Similiar to the way the Moderator category works now.

As I think on this, I'm wondering who/how will it be determined if a peace crosses the line and should not be in the "general" poetry area. Will we leave it up to the responsibility of each member to police themselves regarding this? I think we can as most here are responsible adults and know what would be appropriate for a child to read.

Food for Thought.

you have my full corporation. I know for fact that some of the pieces I post are borderline. I didn't know that there were younger people here. Point me in the right direction and I shall go.

I would hate to think that I was a part of corrupting the mind of a minor. I have children both under the age of 10 and would not want them to read some of the things I've posted/read. So to those of you I may have offended I am truly sorry. Little ones included.

Oh yeah I finally put ma glasses on and saw the short story board. Thanks again Destee. Let me know ifn' yeah I said ifn' I can do anythang else.

GQ ... thanks for your input. Actually this has crossed my mind a few times since putting the forum up. I'm with you, I don't want to weigh the forum down with sub-categories, but this is a legitimate concern and am looking for suggestions/advice from all.

In regard to changing the registration from 13 to 21, I don't like that, as it would be in essence saying ... this is an adult site ... and it's not. I don't want it to be.

"Adult Content" is a relative term and one could crossover quite easily, as the line is thin.

Hmmmm ... not sure what I'm going to do about this but your input will certainly be considered in whatever steps I take.

Thanks again GQ :heart:

Thanks 'Zorbsh'n, but no apology is necessary Sis. Not you or anyone has done anything they must apologize for. Again, I'm not sure how I'm going to handle this. It may be a *minute* before I do anything, waiting to hear what all have to say.

*Growing Pains* or *Labor Pains* ... hehehehe :)

don't forget to breathe through your nose or is it your mouth....ummmmm not sure anymore. Im here if ya needs me

My question is this: How will you know or prove that the person emailing you is really of adult age?

just a thought...:confused:

I hear ya Destee but I must respectfully disagree with you. For all intent and purposes this is an adult site!

Do you track how many of the poets are under 21?

I would venture to say that more than 90% are "of age" here.

While it is somewhat our responsibility to ensure our young folks aren't exposed to "adult themed" posts, it is also a responsibility of yours to allow freedom of speech and expression to everyone so inclined to want such without an disruption of what we've become accustomed to.

It seems like a double edged sword and a cliche' type "Catch 22" doesn't it? Can a young person 13-18 years of age, not express himself or herself explicitly?

I'm in no way advocating allowing them to just venture on in and be exposed to explicit posts but somehow I have the taste of discrimination in my mouth. If this is purported to be an open forum, then why the concern of what's posted here?

Let's face it Destee, as adults we have a responsibility but we aren't the parents of whomever is registering in this forum.

I think we would have done our part if a disclaimer was mentioned in the registration process that "all types" of poetry is written via this medium. Consequently, if there are no restrictions on the integrity of the registration process, we won't know who's peeking in anyway.

Another 2 cents making my four... :lol:

Your thoughts?

GQ

yall are making me work!
i see i got some research to do
i'll be back with more thoughts on this
in the meantime ... keep yall'z coming!

situation but rest in the assurance that whatever YOU decide...WE gotcha back!!!!

Much :heart:
Afri

I have to respectfully disagree with you GQ. This is NOT an "adult site". If it was, I wouldn't be here. In being ladies and gentlemen, we should very much be concerned with whose reading our post and how it might be influencing them. Yes, this forum is about free speech...no it is not discrimination or else we would not be able to post what we want to post here. It's simply about the issue of the "sexually graphic" post that are here for all to see.

There are many poems on varied subjects, which confirms in itself that this is NOT an adult site. This is a site for all people, where everyone should feel free to fit in. The issue that Destee is getting feedback on, is not whether the "graphic" postings should stop, but should she place them in a separate category for the enjoyment of those who like that type of poetry. A password, is Destee's way of saying "If you are under age, you are not welcome in this part of the forum". Of course, there will be some abuse on the part of children who are determined to get in, but at least Destee would have done her part in being a responsible moderator of the forum, she owns.

Personally, when I come across the title, that usually tells me what type of poem it is and so I don't go in. But every now and then, I do come across some by accident, because the title of the poem does not dictate the content thereof.

Yet, inspite of that...I ENJOY MY VISITS. I have in the past (AfroNet) and I will continue.

I hear ya too Joyce but rest assured that when I said "for all intent and purposes this is an adult site" I don't mean it in the sense of it's an R-rated site. I only meant that the majority of those who post here are more than likely adults. This is what Destee probably will research; just how many true adults are here. She'll run into a problem however. If there are no safeguards against fraudulent registrations, she'll not get an accurate account of just who is really who here in the forum.

My 2 cents have turned to 6 now... :lol:

Peace
GQ

just peeking in to say that i think we are confusing terms here ...

this is not an "adult content" site ...
with the intention of providing sexually explicit material/content

this is an "adult content" site ...
in that i do not market and/or solicit to children

easy to confuse ... :eek: ... really 2 separate issues

freedom of speech
and children's online privacy act

probably more but i'm no attorney!

i'll check back in after i find out more

I was not aware that there were minors in our presence...that forces me to rethink a lot of things because i'm aware that a good portion of my posts had some profane language and suggestive sexual content. I understand that minors are impressionable and I commend you on not trying to exclude anyone and set a positive example for them to follow, but I have just realized that I need to chill on posting for a while. Everything that I set forth to scribe comes straight off the dome when inspiration hits, and more importantly, it comes straight from the pages of my life. Sometimes I'm in a rage and the language gets a little questionable, but poetry is self-expression and I can't put limitations on it(not that anyone asked me to)...just making an obvious point. Currently i'm at a loss for words so i'll end it here...I'll check destee out at a later date!

but remember...I LOVE ME SOME Y'ALL!

PEACE,
DP2G

p.s. when a final decision is made, someone hit me up at fynedvd_19@hotmail.com

UNTIL THEN...

Destee,
Your committment to quality, fairness and inclusion is impressive. In light of the fact that children do read this site (quite a few I understand), the question of "Steamy" poetry is legitimate. However, I agree with GQ's position regarding poetry as a pure expression of art...all that art is, and all it is percieved to be. My two cents worth is using the other poetry forum which is not used as much as this one. The other forum is a wonderful outlet which I support. But I would give it up for the right of Poets to express their sensuality in a forum that gives notice as to the type of poetry that is posted. I am sure all will work out.

BE

Destee,

If it is an issue about "art" I don't feel it should be changed at all because as you say within art there are things that some may take offense to, yet, in and of itself it is still art. If this is an "age" issue then I feel that maybe there should be a site for "young poets" (hmmmm...that implicitly states that we are old, doesn't it?) Okay, younger poets...those that can't vote. There maybe should be a different catergory for them. However, I agree with GQ (if this is) an age issue then how is one to know how old a viewer is? This is definitely a sticky subject. But, this is a question that all forms of media has to answer, the bottom line is "check yo' kids" and if not then let them experience the fact that art is of various shapes, forms, sizes, and themes.

To be totally honest, and I'm basing this totally from the art slant, don't change a thing. Poetry is art and it need to be left as such "unadulterated or censored". Yet I don't think that is totally the concern.

Another thing to take note of is that you do not want to set any precedents here. Who's to say that if you add a "steamier" category or what have you, that someone won't come along and suggest that another category be added. And you know what happens when precedents are set. You open the floodgates up to a whole host of things.

Leave it be. I think I would be safe to say that for the most part (and I'm thinking numerical votes, and hey that may be an idea) everyone is content with the "content" and set-up.

just my thoughts,blak

Destee

I am seventeen. Eighteen in three months. As GQ stated poetry is art. Shall the words of Shakespeare, Langston Hughes, and others screen their work. It is open for all. Poetry is an art and every poem anyone makes is respected. I don't think it would be fair to split up the forum. I love reading poetry from people such as Street So'ja, GQ, RICH, Hunter, and many more. I chose to read their stuff. Plus the titles clearly state what they will be talking about I think. Once again I value poetry. Please don't separate the forum.

Much love and respect,

One_Love

that poetry is art. My question, however, is this: when we go into the grand museums of the world, is there a separate section for mature audiences where the nude sculptures and paintings are displayed?

Now, I understand that language can and does create strong images that have a profound affect upon our minds...and language, used skillfully, can say things that are subtly sensuous, suggesting the most illicit scenes. And it can also be used to shock and provoke thought using raw and uncensored language just as skillfully. The messages are important. And the messages reach each of us where we 'are'. There is growth that takes place within the avid reader. There is a new way of looking at our surroundings when we vibe with the poet and become one with the verse. We each come away with something learned. Something clarified. Something experienced, albeit vicarious. Something to ponder, something to look forward to...something to avoid... always 'something' more than we knew when we clicked on.

Destee, is it your responsibility to keep minors from the 'damage' their minds may sustain when they come here? And if you believe it is, I'll support that. Or, is it your responsibility to afford all, the opportunity to exercise their right to express, and the opportunity to 'learn', something true about life, in this place that is unique and beautiful? If you believe it is, I'll support that, too.

This is your place; though you allow us the opportunity to share in decisions. And it has been, from its inception, a place of quality. You have shown your fairness, and your firmness, when things were rough in the beginning. We have no more incidents of indecent and mindless messages passing for poetry here. You've seen to that. And this, is not the issue. All of the Destee Poets in residence adhere to standards that are inherent within this body; this board. It's all been good! But the final decision rests with you. I'm certain we all agree we shall respect whatever the outcome.


peace

a

i don't divide the tomatoes, bacos or the ranch in my salad.
and i like all of my soul food on one plate.
yeahh, i'm hungry.

*going to the fridge* :cool:

Thank you all for your responses.

Reminds me of the time I jokingly made mention of the "juiciness" in one of my Sister Juicylv4u2's peaces. I just tried to find it, but couldn't. Here's another peace by Juice that will give you an idea of how my Sista flows:

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=354

I think I offended her because she's not really been back since. It was not what I meant to do, but I know she still loves me as I've chatted with her several times since (and we've been friends a very long time). But I still think I hurt her. That hurt me. This place is about us having the opportunity to be us in all of our glory and splendor ... and my Sista Juicy can't help it if her glory and splendor is juicy ... da chile alwayz been dis way ... :lol:

Again, this will not be a hasty decision, so please keep your comments coming.

:heart:

Destee

I hear ya GQ. Sorry for misunderstanding you.


I agree with everyone that poetry is art. Yet the beauty of it is in the eyes of the beholder. Some like every thing on their chef salad, while others may want the raddishes left off. It is all a matter of what you like. Personally, poetry is also like food to me. Some of it taste good to the soul and some of it doesn't. When I sit down to eat, my food is always divided into sections. This for the purpose of fully enjoying my meal. So it is when I visit any forum, I prefer that it be divided into categories. I don't like mixing my spinach with my apple pie...*smiles* To me it seems to flow better for me. Many adults don't care to read that type of poetry, let alone being concerned about the kids.

But like I say, I like this place and will continue to come here and enjoy the jewels that are here. For many of the works of the poets here are unforgettable...like Bishop's poem that he reposted...just for me. It's the family atmosphere that makes my visits worthwhile. But my surfing would be aided tremendously if the site was divided into categories. That way, I would not feel like the driver who is trying to avoid pot holes. The highway would be smooth surfing.

Well it's just my 4 cent worth...It's Destee's forum and she must make the final decision and in the end, we must support her in it, even if we don't agree.:cool:

I think so many of us are just used to posting our work and have been doing it for so long, that we never even considered the fact that there might be minors present. I understand what all are saying, and many times its just an act of policing ourselves. I think the biggest thing we must consider as has already been stated is what method will be used to actually prove that someone is of age?...If we label a category as explicit or adult oriented it actually may peak the curiosity of the young folks even more and they'll become whatever age they need to become to gain access. On the other hand there is a responsibility that Destee has since this is her site, to make sure that it does not cross the line, where someone may deem it as X-rated. Maybe AMUN should write an article about this one. As for me I must retreat into the lighthouse and think about which way to go next.

I guess that means I can't post this new piece....I'm crying....I'll await Destee's Verdict.

Bishop, i definitely agree with you 100%

I think Destee said it best herself earlier...
"there has only been one" individual who
posted content over the borderline

anyone remember kryizar?

therefore, there is no need to form
separate categories

simply continue to monitor posts to
ensure internal control

Destee showed all of us that Kry's
behavior was unacceptable by
giving him the boot and erasing
his content

as such, i'm sure little minors who
are present get the message
not to mention all of you who are
21 and over

there's a difference between steamy
and over the borderline O-kaaaay

peace

poeticd

KNOCK KNOCK...Hello Destee> Can i come into your office for a minute? :D

from a ministerial viewpoint ifind it difficult to read some of the post (KRY's) because the content was abusive and non porductive but the scribes that post about all levels of feelings and emotions i find intersting. Although i may not respond to them all i do read them all and some do not inspire me to post comments. most of the time i prefer to write more than "nice scribe". Anyway,, Destee, separating the room more than it is will not dissuade writers from posting that content here because it is an "Open Forum". What i have discovered is that some post in both rooms now in order to get more responses. This in turns will fllod the room with not only more posts but more doubling up on post. I feel now that we are all aware of the m amount of minors that do enter the room we can curve our consciousness to reflect that. There is not one person here who is seeking to influence a minor in the negative aspect. The scribes, no matter how steamy, can help all to fully grasps their feelings and heal from past pains.

My vote? Keep the rooms as is and post a warning such as you have with the copyright infringement clause...

Returning to the garden...

I just read the initial post for this thread, and I'm for whatever changes have to be made. Although art is a free expression, there is responsibility to be garnered by the artist, as it relates to the influence of a younger audience, who might happen to take a gander at what is published or produced. Though you weren't talking to me, if in your opinion you see that my erotic flair crosses the line, do tell me. As you can tell, I like writing in a variety of genres, and have no problem with sticking to posting non-erotic material :cool:

I only have one post but I agree with whatever decision is set forth.

I can't say I agree nor can i say i disagree. Their are two places i post poetry....poetry.com and destee's forum. Poetry.com..i have no intentions on posting anything profound or explicit their. For many eyes will see. Young and Old.

If you do decided to do this though (yes i have to give my 2 cents :)). What about the profound language that is used in poetry. I write things that i don't think are that explicit but some of my friends do. What about those who express their feelings through language. Which should not be read by a child between the ages of 13-18. How will you avoid those? There is a lot of issues here once the main problem has been placed on the table. Opened a can of worms...yes you have...but is it good...yes it is. But if you do one...You'll have to do the others....personally..it is the only moral thing to do. Not just explicitness but also..adult language.

But in signing up you have an age bracket and ask ones age when they register. You don't know if they are telling the truth or not but they still should be in your records. Why not start the limitations to the sight from the time they sign up. You can't change the ones that are already in...but you can keep the news one from getting in. Not saying they can't come and see too...Just when they go to sign in it will take them straight to a different forum. In return that means work on your part...to keep it safe you can give every one a login which they already have...put a security on each category and they can login with their username and password that they use to login to chat. Which will only be available to those of that age group. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Sometimes i have a tendency to talk in riddles. Well good luck in figuring out what to do. That was my suggestion. :D

I just went to a sight WWW.POSITIVEYARDAGE.COM. And the first thing i saw was must be 18 years of age...Parental discression advised....

You should check it out!!!!

I DID GET A LITTLE HOT AT ONE TYME WIT ONE POST
BUT I KNOW HOW TO KEEP IT ON LOW KEY
I AGREE

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all for your responses.

First, to address the issue regarding The Children's Online Privacy Act, this forum is and always has been in compliance. Upon registration, a child (13 and under) must specify that they are (a child) and I must receive signed parental consent prior to allowing them to take part in this forum. This forum currently has no members registered as a child.

The second consideration seems to be the creation of a private forum to separate those who flow (more) sensually. It was my experience with Juicy (a couple of months ago) that made me first consider doing this. I created the category, it was named "Juicy Flows" in honor of my Sista. After creating the category and the description, figuring out how to lock it and how to give special users access to it and considering what the turn around time might be, once someone requested access ... after doing all of that ... I changed my mind and deleted it.

It seemed like I was building barriers, walls, putting locks on doors ... making a difference between one artist and another. Now that this has come up again, what will we do when someone wants to join us, share their flow and/or opinion ... and they are gay or lesbian? Will the "steamy" category members want them there? If not, they will need their own category, if they can live together. Of course we can't stop in the poetry forum, Amun-Ra's articles often challenge the status quo, certainly some stuff over there that needs to be on lock down. Many may think that Kemetstry has a few views in the Open Forum that need to be banned completely!

How would a peace of poetry be considered for inclusion into the "steamy" category? Who decides? If it stimulates my "purple flow," stirs passion in me, then should it go? I've read many peaces that made no mention of sex, talked of "nostrils flaring" and I got excited!!! Our poets have power in their pens.

The fact is, this family is about inclusion. To begin separating the poets because of the sensuality they share in their flow, would mean most every peace would be on lock down. The flows shared here are from the heart, often dripping in sensuality.

No post in this forum is meant to personally offend, hurt or cause problems for another. If you find one that does, please report it to me. We will continue as we always have, dealing with individual issues as they present themselves.

Again, thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me. Please know that no one has done anything wrong. No apologies are necessary and no behavior needs modifying.

Destee

making sure that everyone gets a chance to read this
then i willl let it take its rightful place within the archive

I thank you.