I was engaged in an interesting conversation this afternoon regarding this very topic, BLACK LOVE. Man and Woman. What is everyones ;interpretation, definition on this? I have mine which I will share following some feedback.

I would say my thoughts about "Black Love" are that I, as a black female, should:

Know "self" first
Understand my own 'blackness'
Self actualization/realization of what 'love' is to me
Recognize what I want from a relationship
Be sure about what I am willing to give to a relationship
SOUL DEEP

I know that I want to be in an 'exclusive' relationship with a black man ~ one in which we enhance each other, uplift each other, and are working towards the betterment of ourselves both as a union, then as individuals within the relationship.

Sharing love with each other completely ~ mentally, physically and spiritually.

To experience true "black love" I am unsure that I have.... I've been 'in love' before, as a sista dating, or in relationships with brothas, but I don't think that I feel like I can say that it was "black love"... rather than just -- love in general?~

In agreeance with ya' gurl...

Nihilism has practically destroyed our black families...no self love, hardly anything left....exceptn' to say to "recognize" that which is nearly lost...and to gain it back... put the "B" into 'lack' (Black) and the "L" back into 'ove' (Love); and let's get it going again!!


1 :heart:

Great question BlakVerb ... hmmmm ...

When i think of "Black Love" i think of my (our) history, those that have done all they could to hold the black family together, trying to save sons and daughters from a life of oppression, if possible. I tend to think of the sacrifices those gone on have made ... I think of my Grandmother and her willingness, her strength, to raise the children her husband conceived by another woman while they were married, as if they were her own. I think of the black women that must choose between a mate and her children, and she chooses the latter. When I think of black love I think of the baby born w/drugs in her system, Momma's not able ... so Grandmother, Grandfather, Aunt & Uncle step in. When I think of black love, I think of all the wonderful love, encouragement and support given to me by each and every one of you ... my black family.

Oh, skuze me ... you asked about BlackLove as it pertains to a man and a woman ???!!!! Oops ... :) ... i'll think on this and come back.

:heart:

Destee

I think i think a little different on this topic than most....

I agree that introspection and self love is important, but since we are talking about "love" and not "self" i believe it shouldnt be about you or what you get but what you give.

I believe...
love is selfless
and blind
and enduring.

it sees the person and situation for what it is at its core and not for the "outside", "ever changing" circumstances outside of it. In terms of relationships, i believe you love some for who they are, not so much what you get (even emotionally). True, we can’t be with someone just because we love them but likewise that doesn’t mean we have to stop loving them either. It is true that most of us want to see a return on the investment we place in love but I think we can all safely agree that even when we don’t see that investment pay off- love is still there staring us in the face.. We often have to make a conscious choice to move away from the situation. I have had love relationships with men and for certain circumstances i have walked away. I still love them, I just chose not to be "involved" with them. The reason i loved them in the first place had nothing to do with any agreement we made or what they gave me physically or emotionally but more because of the expression of who they were...for the way in which God "shined" through them. My love had no expectations to a particular outcome such as marriage or an external label that we as people look for to validate a love relationship. I guess what im saying is that i believe love is not tangible- it cannot, will not, be conditioned. I don’t believe you can fall in or out of it. You cannot find it or loose it.... I believe true love is a constant state....

I have found in my own quiet time of reflection and introspection, that "i get what i give". Even being the strong black sista that i am- I never felt the need to control or place conditions or limitations on my love. I have always trusted that love would see all things through.. This could be because of my faith in Gods love but also because of my very own walk in love...

When i think about relationships between brothas and sistas, i believe there is so much beauty that can be exchanged... I also believe that society has created the perception that instead of giving it freely, there must be something given to experience it. That the exchange comes from external factors. Usually this perception brings issues from the very start... Furthermore (assuming that both parties are healthy, stable, centered individuals), I believe in part because of the struggle in our ancestry, blacklove produces a bond that is unlike any other.

As i stated before, i have had some wonderful experiences with brothas and even today i find myself involved with a brotha that is beautiful inside and out. His family and church have embraced me which has made our bond that much stronger. And because both of us have an understanding and about love, alot of things that may have been an issue for us are simply nonexistent.

This is my view about love and blacklove for that matter. I understand that everyone has their own idea about what love is a what it encompasses- and i respect that. I look forward to hearing more about what everyone thinks....
Oh and i want to thank you, BV, for bringing this topic to the forefront. To you brotha…much love…

8th!

kemestry.....

lol..strange..but i actually agree with you...not entirely but in part.... i feel you...lol

8th!

hmmm,

love, in "general", is the ability to see a person for whom they are and not whom we desire them to be. Love requires being able to desire them after the newness comes off; when the days are long and sometimes you just don't want to be bothered. It is learning hot to agree to disagree and never going to bed angry. It is sacrificing for a common cause and walking headstrong into the will of God. it is remembering the special times when others don't and finishing your mates statements. Its learning them and their ways and knowing how to keep the freshness through surprises. Love requires work, but most seek it as just an emotion. Well, our heart can lies to us, especially if we depend on it solely as our precursor to a relationship. There are many who love someone deeply...they just love them from a distance.

I belive in love and all that it encompasses, but I also believe that unconditional love means that you will accept who the person you're in love with at face value. Meaning, you love them for who they are, nothing more of less. Although it is wonderful to want them to reach their highest goals, you have to first know what those goals are. Many marriages and long term relationships end because of infidelity. This occurs because the other shoe has dropped or the person you thought you married is not the person you're married too. We have to come into it with our eyes wide open and your minds clear of what we desire and trust that it will be all that we asked for. But we also must be prepared if what we think we see is not really there. Trust is key; believing in them is key. When you lose belief in them, you lose trust and once that occurs, communication is severed. After that...divorce.

I read a poem many years ago that said some things that are very true...

I love you for you not for who I want you to be
I need you to love me for me, not where you seek me to be;
I cannot fix your past nor can you fix mine.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
nor are you in this world to live up to mine;
I am I and you are you and if by chance we find each other,
then it's beautiful;

love is unconditional. That how I love and my future knows this. I understand that we don't meet eye to eye on everything but I do understand that we MEET. there is a lot involved in loving someone but when you live it, the work is not a difficult as people make it to be. Walking in love with a clear understanding of who you're with makes the walk worthwhile. Being evenly yolked with one and seeking Gods' favor will increase it immensely.

Ps: I chose not to take a biblical viewpoint for the question was asking my personal views. although they are one in the same, true love is real and I walk it no matter my belief system...

Love in general...yes up until recently, I've never experienced in my life, love that was unconditional from friends, hardly ever from family. I learned this at a very early age and it sometimes effects me even to this day. As previously mentioned love should be unconditional yet there is a cycle that has taken place where lessons on love are passed down from generation to generation. I learned love lessons from my mother, she from hers, so on and so forth. I have the desire to love unconditionally and seems it's me who'll be the one to end this vicious cycle.

* I feel a rant coming so I'll stop there*

As for black love knowing what it is...I can't say I've experienced it. I've been in many relationships short term and two long term. And again...they were all conditional. I had to give up something to get love in return.(sex, $$, dance, family,friends,love of self) If black love is reciprocal, unconditional, loyal, faithful, accepting of the person you are and the person you strive to be, nurturing, non-abusive physically/mentally/emotionally/sexually...then I have YET to experience black love.

This love thing effected me to the point where I tried so hard to please him that I lost myself in him.

I believe that love of God and self first is important before you can love someone else. That goes for family, friends and romantic relationships.

I believe that true love/black love can/does exsist. It's evident right here on Destee's board.

I understand where you're coming. Basically, what I've desired is to be loved and accepted for the person that I am and desire to be. As you said, love is the WILLINGNESS to become a better person for the sake of your mate.

I've been willing to become a better person for my mate (at the time) and for myself but, even still, that wasn't enough for him. That's why we're not together now.

There should definately be mutuality and reciprocity in a relationship!!:)

I think your assumption that there is no "unconditional love" is just that... "an assumption". I think if you adjust your pessimistic attitude, you could open up to the possibility of such a thing.

If we all dig a little deeper we will see that love does not mean relationships.... love does not mean marriage. I myself believe all things are possible.... I also believe that most people marry for convenience and compatiblility (right or wrong)....neither of which have anything to do with love...

8th!:heart:

Maybe i would, maybe i wouldnt....who's to say.....
personally, i would like to think my marriage could survive that-
i know of couples who have made it through obstacles such as those...and worse...

i guess that tells us what YOU would do...

There is no science to love...... stop trying to box it up and condition it.....

And...

yes, 2+2=4, IF and only IF you accept those principles on which the equation was built..
your theory states....
junkie+marriage= divorce
abuse+marriage= divorce

It is common for people to accept this theory because time has shown that this is what happens...they have been bred to believe that this is an acceptable outcome. (Let us remember convenience and compatibility....)

Thing is....I never considered myself common (sheepish),
my theory states....

junkie+marriage=prayer, counseling, communication;work
abuse+marriage=prayer, counseling, communication;work


:heart:

well, it seems that when i attempt to drop a few lines i am compelled to revisit my words. I have watched and now i speak.

Kemetstry, although we have agreed on many things and disagreed as well, i have always respected your opinions. Saying this i would like to speak up on what i am seeing.

First, when it comes down to "love" black or otherwise we must first understand that life does not cause the condition of the heart; life revelas the condition of the heart. That is why it is important to embrace unconditional love. When faced with the ills of the world we must know that we love that person before they became downtroddened and it should not change because of it. Honestly, we should love them greater in order to be strong for them. We must examine our hearts to see where we stand and walk in that. if our hearts are darkened, then so will our commitmment to relationships. Some people fall "in love" to compensate for the rejection they've received through life and that is wrong. The only one who suffers is their mate because the offender is blinded to their own shortcomings.

Anyone who gets married or is in a love relationship very quickly realizes that their heart is not transformed by a person--because no person will change their heart. [ex. "Why am I so antangonistic towards my wife? How can I change her life so that my good qualitites can come out of me?"] It is not the wifes' problem. We try to change the human heart by juggling rules and regulations, insight and understanding. The truth is--the source of love is Godward. If the problem involves the flesh (addiction, abuse, etc.) there is no human remedy, just human relief. Only God can remedy it.

Giving your mate the best of you at all times is a wonderful concept but that is all it is -- a concept. Loving someoen means loving them for the good and the bad. I find it to be unfair to only love someon becaus eof the positive things about them because them if a shortcoming shows its head, then we are quickly out the door. Divorce coutr is inundated with relationships ending because the mate "lost his job" or "stop doing the things we did when we met." Ther newness leaves eventually and this is when the work comes in. Only loving someone for the good they bring you and loving them back with only your good things creates a level of stress that is not needed. You work too hard to be "perfect" or "uncapable of doing wrong" and leave little room for mistakes. Accidents happen so how can you be perfect in that.
What i am basically saying is that love them for the bestof them and be cognizant of the worst of them. If you can love then through the storms, then the bright days are easier to love them.

The great need of today is to make people conscious of the products of their own heart. This can only come from seeking a deeper understanding of how we feel before we engage in a relationship that can be very detrimental.

"love is the WILLINGNESS to become a better person for the sake of your mate. " This should not be. Love should be the willingness to serve GOD first. if you live someone so that you can become a better person means that you are shrinking yourself and believing the one your with is where you want to be. This means that you don't want the person to accept you where you are and yet you want their love forever. You have put conditions on their undconditional. I beleive that if somene could love me for where i am today then they will love me greater when i reach the goals that i seek. although i desire to give my mate everything the desire, i strive to give GOD everything first. They have the best of me and the worst. They see the best of me always but there will be times when the best may not appear and this is when i need them by my side.

If i was faced with my wife getting addicted on drugs or abusive to me, i would not elave them. i would get them help. There is no second guessing about that, but, if my mate has any concerns about it, then i would seriously reevaluate the situation. Marriage is "til death do us apart." I would never get married to someone that would consider reasons for divorce for marriage is a commitment and "What God hath put together, let no man put asunder..."

it was wrong for me to better myself for my mate (at the time). My focus should've been on loving God first.

If I only knew then what I knew now, I could've saved myself 4 years of heartache.

*clarification*

Afri,

everything comes in time
on time
even when he's late
he's on time....

what will be will be....


no mistakes
only lessons
and growth
and change
movement.....

his will is always done...(even if it takes 4 years)

~seeing your testimony~

8th!

in my life with friends who ginuinely and sincerely care for me and my well being.

My father was soooo wrong to say that I don't have friends that help and care for me. How could he know anyway? You (and other poets) have helped me via internet more that my so called friends living here with me in the same city.

Seeing God's love filter through!


"he may not come when you want Him but He's ALWAYS right on time!!!!"

*wondering where I'd be spiritually if I never met you all*

Before I start this I noticed something that I don't think I've addressed in the past so I'll do it now. It may not be the right forum but to not discount my thoughts on "Blak Love" I feel I must.

The exclusion of the "c" in "Black". I exclude this because it is the letter that begins the word "colored." As in "No coloreds allowed." So for me the "c" in "black" has a negative connection to the past. Of course if I'm writing a paper for any particular reason I'd include it, but, outside of that it's dropped. So there is no "c" because "there ain't no colored in me." Feel me? It is my way of bewildering people enough that they may ask why the "c" is not present so I can tell them how I stand on the word "colored." This is the reason I do not pay too much mind to the NAACP. Because they stiil prescribe to that part of the acronym "National Association for the Advancement of COLORED people" hmmmm....I haven't been called "colored" in a long time, so who are they advancing? and I'll be damned if I accept that term from anyone. Anyway off that and on to the topic at hand.

"Blak love" what a marvelous thing and definitely a thought provoker. I appreciate the beautiful trains of thought that have been placed before us, I feel we can all learn something from these various points of views.

If I get to "utopic" just let me know.

When I raised this issue I was speaking of the emotional love between the "blak man and woman." I noticed there were a few replies that spoke of other areas of blak love and I value your views on the things mentioned because they are vital to this entire realm we call "blak love." But I chose man/woman love for one particular reason. Outside of God's love for us all, I feel that this connection between the blak man and woman is so very important.

I look at a lot of social issues that plague us. I thought often about how we could "fix" this. From homelessness to blak on blak crime, I feel that this connection could make a world of difference. Now mind you I to agree with a few of you who mentioned "self-love" because without it loving someone else "effectively" is impossible (I'll get to that "effectively" piece in a minute). But that's a whole discussion within itself, this "self-love."

I've also looked at the hateful attitudes of many blak men towards blak women and many blak women towards blak men and see "hurt" people. To the degree that they reside in a box with no windows, not seeing the beauty that a blak man or blak woman can bring to their life. This is a painful sight.

So with that said this is blak love to me. Blak love is a connection, and to quote N2, on a complete mental, spiritual, physical, and "emotional" level. This connection is one in which there is "unconditional/conditional" love, yes that's right both at the same time. I noticed discussion on this point and I thought, hmmm, very valid points. Love is unconditional that regardless of flaws "I will Love you". However, flaws (serious flaws like abuse, I'm not talking about a pimple on a nose) unchecked are unhealthy and destroys people. And people exist "unhappily together" and "happy" is priority. It makes no sense to me to be with someone that brings you down, or as I like to say "helps you die." Even in marriage and by no means do I advocate divorce. But, if it gets to be "unhealthy" and all resources to salvage the marriage have been exhausted, then that may be the "healthiest" and "smartest" choice. But there has to be an effort to save the union and not treat it as a "fad", ya know, "here today, gone tommorow." So in that sense there are conditions that need to be upheld, emotional conditions. Not the kind that go "if you get this for me I'll continue to love you" that's not love, that's control. Or outside of the materialistic viewpoint "if you change this about you or stop hanging with so and so, I'll love you." Once again that's control. Besides if the person was real with you in the first place then you know what kind of person you're involved with and you "fall in love" which actually you "rise in love" with that person.

Blak love is when a man and woman understands thier obligations to the other. Most importantly supporting their mate. This obligation encompasses many things from the aforementioned to;

*making their mate laugh - we all know about endorphins right? That chemical that is released into one's body when one laughs - and makes you feel good. We all want our mates to "feel good" don't we? So tell your mate a joke today!

*Listening to the other - even when you don't have a lick of interest in what the other's talking about. I am an avid sports fanatic and I can count many times that I was blown off by persons that I was with at the time when I began to speak of any sport. If you don't understand ask. It doesn't hurt to learn. Those brief glimpses into what thrills us can be future opportunites to surprise the us (ex. tickets to a game in the mentioned instance).Or for the sake of relating if you're with a mate who does not write and really doen't care about it, gets you tickets and goes with you to a poetry reading...well ****! there it is. When a person can enter a realm with you to the detriment of their total comfort...that says a lot. Just the undivided, attentive ear can turn someone on. And it shows that you are interested in the whole person.

*communicating - It's not a perfect science, to this day it is a work in process for me. This is an elementary point, but, as you know so many of us have issues with this. Just listen to the conversations in the hood on any given day, or on a CD. You can count the "your a *****" and "eff you *****" comments. This is a dysfunctional communicative process. But you know, and this is a tangent along the self-love piece, a lot of us prescribe to these descriptions and relish in the burnt up glow of being called these words. Sickness. Mental sickness. Now does that mean I condemn artists for using such words, as art if we can delicately veil it as such, no. But as a message that is conveyed I condemn it. I don't use such words as a rule of my respect for myself, my queen, and my people.

Beyond that a lot of us just don't talk, about anything beyond how someone's day at work or school was. I mean time out to stimulate each other on a "mental" level. Caress the intellect with the strokes of wisdom. It promotes growth and "If ya not helping me live (grow) you're helping me...die."

*Complimenting your mate. Showering them in verbal adulation. It's like milk "it does the body good." Tell your man or woman they look good a few times. After a while even if they look fantastic already they will go into another zone when it comes to looking good for you (and essentially it helps them out, on a feel good level).

*Telling your mate "I Love You." Yeah, your mate may know this, but, they never get enough of hearing it. Those are three words that can dang near change your physiological make up. It makes you what...you know...feel good.

I can go on forever regarding this. But those are some of my thoughts.

In addition to this blak love is helping mate understand who he/she is on an African level. If you need to break it down and say "baby, you know you have royal blood flowing through your veins well ****, say it!" If you don't understand your history, read and learn it. that probably can go without saying, but, I'm saying it. If we understood the greatness that flows through each other how can we, with a conscious mind, mistreat each other? Knowledge as we know is "empowering" and we want our mates to feel as such. For Queens to feel like Tabiry and brothers to feel like Piankhy (a King of Kush of the twenty-fifth dynasty)

When we support and love each other on this level and many of those mentioned. Then we can raise our kids iin a healthy environment and serve as role models of how young brothers need to grow and treat these future queens and vice versa. This love will put us in direct correlation to protecting one another and moving in the same direction when it comes to the struggles we experience as a people.

And in the beginning of "destroying" us as a people one of the first things that was done was destroy our "connection." That needs to be mended on a global level (but as they say take care of home first)

I'll end there as I could go on forever. So this questions is have I been there. That is the question.

one love, blakverb

On a whole diaspora level. I love all my blak people, from the crook to the saint. Some just need more to heal than others. hmmm....is this another conversation in the making?

Black love to me means to love UR community so much that U want 2 C a black owned grocery store,movie theater,shopping center. Black luv to me means if U have 2 walk that X-tra mile away from a more convienient store just to shop at a black store, that is black love. Black love 2 me is paying 20cents more 4 an item U could get at the 99cents store or the dollar tree.Black love is husbands supporting black women and the children they make, black love is the woman supporting the black man and understanding him , and telling him how 2 luv U, black luv is wearing the hair in it's natural state. Black luv 2 me is teaching the children not 2 feel low self worth because of their african slave /american indian heritage.Black love is God and he will lead & guide us 2 luv our selvels in this sick society today, black luv is 2 luv a brotha or a sista without that Lincoln Navigator truck. :love:

Black love is something that can not expressed into words. It's like looking at yr man or girl and knowing that they love u. It's the way we express our feelings toward each other. For me, it's feeling when u know that yr man loves u and there's nothing that can erase that feeling.
THAT'S BLACK LOVE!!

Originally posted by Abisha
Black love to me means to love UR community so much that U want 2 C a black owned grocery store,movie theater,shopping center. Black luv to me means if U have 2 walk that X-tra mile away from a more convienient store just to shop at a black store, that is black love. Black love 2 me is paying 20cents more 4 an item U could get at the 99cents store or the dollar tree.Black love is husbands supporting black women and the children they make, black love is the woman supporting the black man and understanding him , and telling him how 2 luv U, black luv is wearing the hair in it's natural state. Black luv 2 me is teaching the children not 2 feel low self worth because of their african slave /american indian heritage.Black love is God and he will lead & guide us 2 luv our selvels in this sick society today, black luv is 2 luv a brotha or a sista without that Lincoln Navigator truck. :love:

ITA:toast:

I don't think as love in black or white terms. But I have been reading several of the responses noted on this subject. I will say that love is unconditional. But as humans we are often caught up in the conditional. I have been in relationships and some were healthy and others were not.

But the greatest of all relationships is the love relationship. Have you ever seen the worst and the best in a person and yet your love did not change. Loving a person to me doesn't mean okay just because you don't measure up to my expectations, I am not going to love you anymore. It may mean that I need to re-evaluate my own expectations. I believe love exist outside of the parameters we place on them. Love just is - It helps you to believe you are okay where you are, wherever you are. Granted, we may need help with some of our issues. I love someone who has addiction issues and though I choose not to be involved with them on intimate level, it doesn't change my love. I just learn to live without them. And it hurts, but it's okay. Because I believe that is what love is. My mother taught me that and I believe black love is about that. We do not feed into the darkness of conditional love, but are uplifted by the light of the unconditional.

freezia

John Coltrane's Love Supreme.

Now, that's Black Love.

PEACE

Sun Ship

Originally posted by blackeyes


ITA:toast:


Thanks BlackEyes :)

Never let it die!

In romantic relationships, it is the obvious; sexual and romantic unity of black men and women. So it is a unity of the physical and emotional. Understanding the other gender better should be a part of romantic black love.

In terms of the community, it could mean unity with other black people; whether it's brotherhood or sisterhood. Finding ways to unite despite differences and also eliminating feelings of hate, envy/ jealousy and most important distrust.

In terms of family, it means the child respecting the parent and their role and the parent respecting their kid's role. Kids need to respect and appreciate the sacrifices their parents make for them, while parents need to remember that things aren't always easy in a kid's life either.

Patience
Acceptance
A combination of two people that love themselves enough to share as one.
Romance
Stability
Growth
Endurance
Compatible love making
Laughter
Sharing
Caring
Family
Support
Educating each other every day
Common religious beliefs
Comon music interest
Equality
monogamy
Forgiving of each other past
Happy with present
Dreaming about future
Planning to grow old together
Sticking it out through thick and thin
Trust
Sharing bills
Living life to the fullest
Never let anyone who does not share your union come between it
Being friends
Open to change
Pleasing without limits
Stand beside and guide always!
Even if he makes mistakes don't throw it up in his face,forgive,understand and find a solution