It was mentioned recently that homosexuality
was practised in Africa pre Colonialism, ah hope
not,it kinda hurts my heart
anyone know anything about that?
Say it aint true!

I never heard about that....but never say never

Jomo Kenyatta in his classic book "Facing Mt. Kenya" about the culture of the Gikuyu of Kenya, specifically addressed the issue of homosexuality. In his own words he stated that homosexuality did not exist in their culture until the coming of Europeans. I am inclined to believe this opinion. And I think it applies to other peoples in Africa as well. I have no actual fact for my next statement but if any homosexuality existed in Africa pre-colonialism it might have been in Northern Africa. There is a significant Arab influence in Northern Africa, and there is an underground influence of homosexuality/bi-sexuality in their culture. By large at the risk of being called prejudice, I think homosexuality is a perversion that the white man brought upon the world. I truly don't believe that it did exist in Africa before colonization (European or Arabic)!

P.S. It is a fact that AIDS in South Africa emerged as a major threat among Gay White Arikaneers, then later spread to the true (black) South Africans!

I am of the opinion that homosexuality is a normal lifestyle within the context of western Caucasian culture. It is abnormal in the cultures of people of color...

I concur with all of your opinions. My Afrakan dance teacher gave a presentation about this subject. She is from Senegal. She said that homosexuality is not tolerated among her people and that is is completely frowned upon in Afraka.

My people:

I saw this post and thread and agonized over whether information could empower those of you who are not able to accept that our ancestors were also same gender lovers.
Below and in my next post i will list a few sites which you may go to and read some info.

Many of our people including my father (a native born Kikuyu) were homophobic to the point of near insanity, yet today lesbians and gay men are all over the world, in every culture race, color, creed, religion and lack of religion et-al. Jomo Kenyatta, was very aware of the fact that gay men were in his own tribe, he allowed FGM and other crimes against women and although he and my father were comrades he was also very much in denial.

Coupled with this, is the fact that the fear many have of people who are same gender lovers has done more to harm our psyche than 500 yrs of slavery. Denial, lies, hypocricy, and falsehood are some of the reasons why our own children (especially our sons) choose to keep secrets which in my opinion can lead to disaster later on.








What Catholicism and most other modern Christian churches vigorously deny is just how much homosexuality was not only tolerated, but practiced by many of its founding fathers, and the degree of toleration, if not veneration, it received. Afrocentrics often deny that homosexuality was a feature of African cultures in ancient times. And more than a few anglicized Native Americans would be shocked to learn that homosexuals were not only common among their tribal ancestors, but were even venerated as being spiritually gifted.

Homosexualty and bisexuality, we now know from modern research, is ubiquitous throughout the world. It exists in all cultures, and has at all times in history. A relic of our evolutionary history, homosexuality and bisexuality is very commonly practiced in nearly every culture, whether tolerated or not. The only difference is the openness with which it is practiced.

Another thing we know from modern research is that some degree of bisexuality, in the absence of cultural taboos, is not only extremely common in men, but is probably the rule! "Homosexuality of convenience" which occurs in the absence of available female partners (such as is commonly seen in prisons, for example) is widespread even in cultures that frown on homosexuality. Most men, at some time in their lives, experience homoerotic feelings towards other men - whether they choose to admit it or not. The percentage of men who have had a homoerotic experience to orgasm in amazingly high even in America. By the age of 49, fully 60% of American men have had such an experience. We not only know that homosexual experience was ubiquitous, but that it tended to follow certain general patterns, nuanced by local traditions, taboos and prejudices.

Among these patterns are a tendency of partnerships to form between adolescents of differing ages, with the older male performing the more active (usually insertive) role, and the younger performing the more passive (usually receptive) role. The more tolerant the society, the older the senior partner became, to the point of being intergenerational in some cases, such as ancient Greece. In nearly all cases, however, taboos existed against homosexual rape, and most such societies had taboos or laws intended to protect an unwilling junior partner from an aggressive senior partner.

We also know that there is a small minority of men (estimates range from 3 to 7 percent depending on the criteria examined) who seem to be biologically disposed to homosexual orientation, and for whom there is no element of bisexuality at all. Often these men display feminized charactaristics (a "swishy" personality, or a tendency to perform in drag, for example), and these men are usually the ones who show no interest in forming relationships with women (and who often consider even the idea to be repugnant). It is these men, the small minority, that are the source of the stereotype of the "swishy queer." Similarly, at the opposite end of the spectrum, there are a similar number of men who never have had any homoerotic experience at all and find the idea to be repugnant. But that leaves the vast majority of men in the middle, who on at least rare occasions, find other men to be erotically interesting.

The fact of the ubiquity of bisexuality is probably the source of the rumor that homosexuality is a chosen orientation. The fact that many men have erotic attraction to both sexes to at least some degree and are therefore offered the opportunity (or required by society) to choose is why many religious groups seem to think that sexual orientation can be changed. There is not a shred of evidence to indicate that a significant shift really can occur - "reparative therapies" succeed only in repressing one sexual response in favor of the other, often with pyschologically devastating results.


In modern cultures, a myth has been spread, mostly by homophobic religious groups, that homosexuality is primarily a modern phenomenon, that it is a chosen orientation, and it is a symptom of moral decline.
Such a notion runs counter to what we know of homosexuality, and what we know of its history and its biological origins. We now know, for example, that most men in ancient Greece and Rome engaged in at least occasional homosexual contact, and a not insignificant number of the marriages consummated in both civilizations were homosexual. We know that homosexuality, though not known by that name, was not only tolerated, but even celebrated in the arts, theater and in cultural activities. The ancients did not view gender as a determining factor of who should love or be married to who; the qualifications related solely to matters of age and biological relationship (incest).

We know that the ancient view of homosexual sex was that it was innocuous, harmless (so long as both parties were fully consenting), and could be as much a symbol of love between the participants as heterosexual sex. Indeed, in most African cultures, mutual masturbation and anal sex engaged in by pre-marriage adolescents was considered to be nothing more than childplay.

Indeed a vast corpus of literature has been left us by the ancients, which celebrates same-sex relationships, and which in many cases is homoerotic. Much of the literature of "straight society" also makes clear, in a variety of ways, that homosexual relationships were widely acknowledged, not considered immoral or "sinful," but rather were considered a normal part of life. In many "primitive" societies, such as those studied in Africa and the Pacific Islands, the patterns seen are often the same as those seen in ancient Greece and Rome. Adolescent males would often pair-bond, engage in frequent homosexual relations, and exhibit great love for each other, until the time came to become fathers and husbands. They would then make a choice - going on to find (or be assigned) a wife, and abandoning their same-sex partner. The choice was often difficult - and not a few chose to remain with their same-sex partner for the rest of their lives.

Homosexuality in Prehistoric Africa
Our knowledge of homosexuality in prehistoric African cultures is limited by the late-Middle Age European views of Africans, of homosexuality, and of course, the European reason for being in sub-Saharan Africa in the first place - the slave trade. Among the earliest references to it are some of the records of the Inquisition in Brazil. From the Denunciations of Bahia, (1591-1593) comes this thoroughly racist reference to it:

"Francisco Manicongo, a cobbler's apprentice known among the slaves as a sodomite for 'performing the duties of a female' and for 'refusing to wear the men's clothes which the master gave him.' Francisco's accuser added that in Angola and the Congo in which he had wandered much and of which he had much experience, it is customary among the pagan negros to wear a loincloth with the ends in front which leaves an opening in the rear... this custom being adopted by the sodomitic negros who serve as passive women in the abominable sin. These passives are called jimbandaa in the language of Angola and the Congo, which means passive sodomite. The accuser claimed to have seen Francisco Manicongo "wearing a loincloth such as passive sodomites wear in his land of the Congo and immediately rebuked him."

Read and think

natukae na ndugu

Go to www.ashantiwarrior.com
www.outafrica.com

with permission

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Ashanti Warrior (or Ghanaian?) is gay? Gay, as in homosexual? As far as the second link, it redirects to a commercial website (netbroadcaster .com) with a bunch of incessant, annoying ad popups.

:confused:

Man and woman were made for each other, anything outside of that is just a notion.

With that said, I'm not a person who condones violence, professional discrimination or denial of basic human rights against people who are homosexual.

However, the definition of gaybashing seems to include not agreeing with the lifestyle. Disagreement with the lifestyle isn't gaybashing, its a personal opinion and we have a right to that opinion.

Let's examine:

Viewing homosexuality as wrong is not gaybashing

Disagreeing with the acceptance of homosexuality is not gaybashing

Understanding that people have been gay throughout time but also understanding that that fact doesn't make it "right" or "good" is not gaybashing

Believing that homosexuality isn't part of the progressive natural process of life is not gaybashing

Speaking about and believing that homosexuality isn't a practice or a group that should be included with the struggle of African people isn't gaybashing

Over and over I'm trying to figure out why the issues of Gays and Lesbians are included or compared to that of black people. It is not the same and never will be. We have to stop being the torchbearers for every other group and light the way for our own.

My sistah:

Your points are well taken and understood, however the question was not about sameness but wheter homosexuality exits in Alkebulan ta azar or if it ever did?

Sikele wa na kuchilago te na wa ne tenkilele mwanglele tewangeloe

(I pointed out the moon and the stare and all that was seen was my finger ) >?xhosa)

Natukae na ndugu

I never assume..perhaps some research could/would help. in the meantime if I have irritated you my sister or even perhaps opened up some pain ....please forgive.. As for the assumation? NOT!!!. A very good man someone whom I respect as a person is an Ashanti and that is his sight and as I have so gently said before..We all may need to GET OVER IT.. gays will be here until the end of the times as will our people.
people who are same gender lovers cross all ethnic lines, races, colors, religions and lack thereof and i refuse to be mad at em.

Love ya
Your sister

FYI

Being Seen as Gay Equals Asylum www.google.com will bring a story about a GAY ASHANTI Warrior who is in denial and who claimed he only said he was gay to get into the US LOL!!


All Amanfi has won, asylum of course, is the chance to place the merits of his claim before the immigration authorities, so his winning asylum in the U.S. is by no means assured.

But his case has established a principle that homophobic persecution can provide a basis for asylum, regardless of whether the petitioner is himself actually gay

Thanks a lot

your sistah

GayUniverse Man to Man Message Board
Africa

This will be my last post on this mater but FYI if you would seek more go tp www.gayuniverse.com. We are not ostriches and do not live with our heads in the earth. We are intelligent people and therefore what another does is no reflection of the man or woman in the mirror.

You are loved

Yes, and I approached an underlying issue within all of the conversations that involve homosexuality and the African community.

I look at more than the moon and stars...I see the cosmos.

Whassup Alkebulantaazar
I just wanted to let you know that articles are not allowed to be posted unless you have the written consent of the author...what you can do is write a brief synopsis ex..a few lines...and then provide a link where others can view the article..for further info you can view the Forum rules..So can u please edit your post at your earliest convenience..Thanks Alkebulantaazar...
Peace....

u may suggest it, but we dont have to take your counter african, counter revolutionary, counter afrocentric advice to heart.

homosexuality is condemned within the spiritual scriptures of several african religions.

Peace my sister:

Will do it as soon as possible. I just didn't understand the rules. however the site is www.google.com and the title is the title above. This is a news article .

Originally posted by Deepa
Yes, and I approached an underlying issue within all of the conversations that involve homosexuality and the African community.

I look at more than the moon and stars...I see the cosmos.

Therefore would you be saying that you cannot see one without the other? LOL
Point well taken

natukae na ndugu( spirit enjoins us)

Alkebulantaazar,

You have neither irritated me, nor opened up pain (and I'm confused about what you meant by that). The ad popups were a bit annoying, but I was annoyed by THOSE, not by you. I'm not sure what type of research you were referring to. When I clicked on your first link, it took me to a one-page website with a photo of an Afrikan man who was a part of some type of "Mr. Ghana" or something. Maybe you know more about him than do I, but I didn't take his entry in such a contest to mean he must be homosexual (I dislike using the terms "gay" and "homosexual" interchangeably).

I won't attempt to assert that there have been no instances of homosexual activity on the Afrikan continent (surely there have been), however, I don't believe it is a behavior considered "natural" or permissive in any particular Afrikan culture. But I do believe that any high incidence of homosexuality in Afrika is directly attributable to colonization and nothing more.

I'm no basher of homosexual persons, and as consenting adults, adult homosexual couples should be free to exercise whatever behaviors they so choose to exercise amongst one another, with no fear of retaliation from heterosexual persons.

On the other hand, when they step over the line and go after minors, heterosexuals, even animals, that's where I draw the line. That's where bashing is warranted.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ifasehun
[B]u may suggest it, but we dont have to take your counter african, counter revolutionary, counter afrocentric advice to heart.

Can you prove this my sister? Once you do I will also show you where even those who ascribe to severa have often been homosexuals. If we base everything on literature without followup we are bound to err, I live a life which allows me exposure to all people, I have lived in Afraka and with people who are homosexuals and no my sister we do not have to ascribe or believe anything we read nor do we have to believe it..It does help when we can be openminded and admit that we can never tell who is a same gender lover regardless of whether or not we like it.

Please know sis that some of those brothers and others with the ripples of iron..are also not all that they appear..That professor sister in front of the classroom is not all that she appears, and even our familiy members have more flava. This will be my last post about this as there are other issues of more importance. I will read anything anyone writes but will not send my thoughts.. Thanks to all

Love you

Originally posted by Alkebulantaazar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ifasehun
[B]u may suggest it, but we dont have to take your counter african, counter revolutionary, counter afrocentric advice to heart.

Can you prove this my sister? Once you do I will also show you where even those who ascribe to severa have often been homosexuals. If we base everything on literature without followup we are bound to err, I live a life which allows me exposure to all people, I have lived in Afraka and with people who are homosexuals and no my sister we do not have to ascribe or believe anything we read nor do we have to believe it..

nothing you're saying is making any sense here. you and i both know that you cant be an open gay in most parts of africa. you should know this if you "lived" in afrika or "afraka" as you call it. (lol?)

It does help when we can be openminded and admit that we can never tell who is a same gender lover regardless of whether or not we like it.

no - we cant be open minded about things that are anti-life or anti-afican or anti-afrocentric or anti-revolutionary. sorry. we dont have that leisure. this is NOT a game.

Please know sis that some of those brothers and others with the ripples of iron..are also not all that they appear..That professor sister in front of the classroom is not all that she appears, and even our familiy members have more flava. This will be my last post about this as there are other issues of more importance. I will read anything anyone writes but will not send my thoughts..

again, you arent making any sense. who is what professor and what is a family member with more flava? if you're gay, just come out say YOURE gay. otherwise, we have no idea why you continue to allude to the hidden army of black gay people. as the sister nia put it - a by-produce of colonization, nothing more. they are colonized and it appears you may be too...you're right there are better topics than this.

Thanks to all

Love you

Therefore would you be saying that you cannot see one without the other?

Nope.

One would do a lot better without the other.

To Ifasehun

Agreed! I couldn´t have said that better myself.

Nope.

One would do a lot better without the other.

Please tell me me how one can do without the sun the moon and the cosmos..i ask because i am still teachable LOL.
I will be leaving tonight to travel back to Dimona, i have a laptop but doubt that i will be here as much as i have been. My assignment is over and i want to see my family and after 11 months of being in the belly of the beast..i am full of fire and ready to reach for the COSMOS, MOON AND STARS...

THANKS FOR YOUR KINDNESS

NATUKAE NA NDUGU:heart:

I stand corrected. I mistook your comment. I was referring to your comment in reference to Africans and Homosexuality.

As far as the cosmos, the moon and the stars, they are interconnected and one can't see one without the other.

Therefore would you be saying that you cannot see one without the other? LOL
Point well taken

natukae na ndugu( spirit enjoins us)

Yes.

Originally posted by Deepa
I stand corrected. I mistook your comment. I was referring to your comment in reference to Africans and Homosexuality.

As far as the cosmos, the moon and the stars, they are interconnected and one can't see one without the other.



Yes.

Its all good my sistah, you are not the only one here who has misunderstood my threads and i take no issue with your words.
As i have stated i will make no more comments about homosexuality on this venue because it is obvious that the truth cannot be accepted.

Now my sistah before you misunderstand again please know that i came in peace and that i have been here for many yrs off and on albeit under another name which has been long forgotten. i am the sister of a politica prisoner who is well know in the community as i am, and although i have found and taken another path towards unity for our people i must continue to support the rights of all people to freedom of choice.

i will never disrespect another scribe nor for that matter any human being if i can help it because i choose to live in harmony with mankind and esp those whom i call my Alkebulans.

i am in NY, as i type awaiting my flight back to Dimona, Israel and although my first thoughts were to simply walk away from this venue in peace and allow sleeping people to sleep, after seeking an opinion from someone in my circle it came to my attention after allowing someone close to me to read a thread sent to me by another sistah that it would be sheer folly to not continue to place threads of my choice and allow what happens to happen.

My sista/bro i am an Atty, well known in theis community and even after several yrs living in northeast Alkebulan(AFRAKA) and with and under the leadershhip of my husband of 36 yrs i still feel the greatest love for those still living in the belly of the beast.
My profession and our struggle (www.kingdomofyah.com) dictates that i must defend the rights of people to live freely and as they choose even if its against what we as people believe.

Case in point. I am the mother of 7 sons anf the wife of a brother who is the 1st of 7 sons and in 1989 one of our sons was murdered while still in the US and through no fault of his own.
At that time i was here in the US working towards legal citizenship in Israel for the kingdom,(we now have dual citizenship) and one cannot imagine what it is like to have your first snatched from your life through the fault of others who valued nothing but the rock. However,

Did we seek the life of his killer?
should we have sought the life of his killer?

We think not because we understood why it happened and understood where the fault lay. Instead we decided to forge ahead and reach out to those so called gang members and try to salvage a life as oppossed to allowing the CJ system to take a life.
We have adopted another young man into our family who may have become one of my death row clients had we not offered love and in doing so have saved a life through love and sacrifice.

Our son is not forgotten and we know(the entire community in Dimona) that our son was and is free and that we love our people to LIFE as oppossed to death.
For those of you who have never experienced the kingdom of yah before you begin think anything negative please go to the site and check us out

I shall return soon

Toda rabah

You are for the healing and upliftment of Afrikan people, I understand that above all.

These discussions allow us to think outside of the box and express ourselves, so no disrespect given and none received.

Even in disagreement we learn.

In other words...It's all good.

All I'm saying, is I don't overstand what was the point of this thread.

:confused:

If it was to prove a point that there are many Afrikans who are homosexuals in the closet, well it is no secret that there are black closet homosexuals. Yet, the photo on the website didn't prove that point (though--again--it didn't need to be proven to begin with).

Originally posted by Nia Maishani
All I'm saying, is I don't overstand what was the point of this thread.

:confused:

If it was to prove a point that there are many Afrikans who are homosexuals in the closet, well it is no secret that there are black closet homosexuals. Yet, the photo on the website didn't prove that point (though--again--it didn't need to be proven to begin with).

My sister what would make an intelligent person think that all Afrakans are in the closet? If you had searched a bit more about the brother in the pic his story would have been revealed..
For now, i am at peace but love a debate so look for me in the whirlwind!!
Ciao LOL


ps Check out Mike Rameys spot think you may like my peice

I didn’t see any homosexuals, although there may have well been some in my midst, In fact in many traditional African languages there is no word to describe homosexuality and many of our liberated areas such as Namibia, Zimbabwe etc. have laws on their books totally opposed to homosexuality, Sam Njomo President of Namibia suggested arresting open homosexuals on sight,
Also my Sister in regard to those links you provided:

www.ashantiwarrior.com is a Brooklyn, NYC based website their info: Ashanti Warrior
Martin Luther King Addo, 111 Montague St, Apt. 6A
Brooklyn, NY 11201 US
+1 917 945 4921, Fax: +1 902 749 5429

Toda raba my brother:

I see that you are still standing and that our ancestors have continued to shine blessings upon you.

Your answer above is exactly what I am trying to convey here and more importantly I appreciate the fact that you did not attempt to disrespect me with suggestion which is the sign of a true freedom fighter.

The fact that you did not see homosexuals in Alkebulan does not mean that they are not there. As we both know Namibia has a great population of lesbians and gays>

www.mask.org.za/SECTIONS/AfricaPerCountry who have been there forever and who were born as such.

My brother one does not choose to become gay it is a birth order my son and fortunately or otherwise i believe that to dismiss them from our plateau as people who are from planet x?
I still submit that fear is the tool that has been used to judge and like putting perms and blond dye in the hair of an Alkebulan descendant fear is what often makes many of us unteachable.

As an atty, Sam Njoma, is a violator of huiman rights and not a defender of the same. His recored is appalling and he and his thugs will never be able to rid the country of anyone let alone homosexuals so the laws which are on the books are not going to change people who are born the way thwey were.

last my brother

When i teach I have the ability to be inclusive, accepting, and openminded which allows me to remain teachable.

The site is a favorite of mine and I have had occassion to meet the brother,because before I can teach human behaviour I must understand human behaviour.


M
Keep up the good work

Hotep Family
Sister Alkebulantaazar for clarity sake I view homosexuality as a form of mental illness, and those who partake in homosexual relationships suffering from that illness..
It is illegal in almost all of Africa to partake in homosexual relationships it’s even in the link you supplied...

WoW!!! NO pun intended and as my son says I aint mad atcha!! I will also agree that most people believe that homosexuality is a form of mental illness and back in the day the AMA designated it the same. However, mental illness is part of a way of life for many people including our people and just so we are clear we have been discriminated against for less than that? My question is why are people who are gay so hated and why do most people use homosexuality as an excuse to violate human rights?

When i called you son its was not meant to offend and as the gracious sparing partner that i am i will give you that one my brother!! As you know brother jacuma, i love good dialogue i incense people because i persist and refuse to back down. I usually know what i am talking about and have slews of info to support my premise.

It makes no difference what is illegal in the world , bro Jacuma, it is only illegal if we did it Do U remember???? pass laws were needed less than ten yrs ago in SA, we as people could not live around euros, our children could not go to school because of our complextion and that is why i know that if people could change and not be gay then they perhaps would do so rather than risk being murdered because of something they cannot help or stop. What Nujoma is doing is trying to make people less than persons
How many of our people do you think had wished they could pass for white??

Laws will never stop what is natural therefore Nujoma, and any other mentally ill leader is barking up the wrong tree and sadly he is the type of mentally tormented man who would murder his own like Idi Amin did thousands of human beings in his quest to rid people of a way of life. He scares me and all legal minds and esp those of us who have fought for human rights from way before he became pres.
What the purpose of this thread was was to find out how my people felt about people who are homosexuals because i am very much a person who believes in social activism as both an Atty mother wife and freedom fighter. My brotha, if you are in your 30's or early 40's then i am old enough to be your mother so that is the reason why i use the word son. I find it respectful and loving because i have 7 sons and our oldest is 40.

Now back to Namibia, i have every web site that is avail in the country and behind the mask is just a tip of the iceburg. Yes, majority of the gays in Afrika may be euros however, that was not the question.. The young man wanted to know the truth and whether or not their were any Gay Afrikans. When i was there i met many people who shared much and when i was in S.A the same and one thing that i must support is a persons right to be who they are..**** a law. on paper. The creator is still in charge.

For myself, i believe that the real dishonor? here is that many of our people are remiss to understand that the genetics play a major part in the brain. Check out the functions of the nuero transmitters, the pituitary gland, the beta endorphins and testosterone (if you choose to) whatever you do let it be known that i respect your believe but will say that there appears that there is a bit of hysteria with many of our afrikan males and often as a social scientist i see this behaviour as a mens to violate the laws of individuals.

As for Namibias pres. Had the Kingdom of Yah had to rely on him it is possible that the israelis may have ousted us yrs ago. I still submit that he is a human rights violator, a terrorist and a fraud who treats women like??? Nujoma comes out of the same skin as Robert Mugabe TERRORISTS UNDER THE GUISE OF FREEDOM FIGHTERS have you ever heard the term Xyy criminal?


you are loved

why are some of you so "obsessed" with defending homosexuality? i bet you have spent more time trying to relate homosexuality to black social justice issues than you have spent FIGHTING for black social justice issues.

the white man wins again. it's sad how he can make you think its progressive to pursue his agendas.

there is no way to be both an Ashanti WARRIOR and a Gay man. lol

do you know what the Ashanti would do to him and YOU for such a comment? the women would corner you in the marketplace and teach you the value of holding ones tongue. lol and lets just say the brother might not make it out of the spot alive.

tsk tsk tsk.. gay ashanti warrior. lmao..what a odd comment indeed. yall better stop looking at african people with those white eyeglasses. and when i say african, i mean US not them. We are ALL africans!

I think you have proven that there are gay Africans Alkebulantaazar. Now that you have, can we please put this topic to rest. Gay Africans are not a topic important enough to warrant 3 or 4 different threads. We have other issues that need to be addressed, and other information that needs to be shared.

Originally posted by panafrica
I think you have proven that there are gay Africans Alkebulantaazar. Now that you have, can we please put this topic to rest. Gay Africans are not a topic important enough to warrant 3 or 4 different threads. We have other issues that need to be addressed, and other information that needs to be shared.

Shalom my brother:

I am the husband of the one you call AlkebulanTaAzar and as her number one fan I have decided to address this issue as she has as you have said> proven her point (as she normally does).

African> You have a name which speaks to unity and I hope self governance and yet when my queen asked me to read your post i said to her Quote >when did he give you birth? We laughed out loud and allowed our children to read the posts she had written while in the US and in london.

We read one post where an obviously insecure person asked if my wife was a lesbian and when my son asked if she had sent a rebuttal her words were>Are you insane? and laughed again.
She told us that some things are best ignored and that her battle was not personal but scholastic, passing knowledge because information is power.

Now, my wife grew up in the Caribbean Africa Europe and the US and has come from a life of struggle like myself. I am a brother from the south, and being as my struggle has been one of straight up struggle from beginning to end my wife and I believe in two very important things.
One is our right to say what is truth regardless of who likes or dislikes it, and our right as a people to our destiny and identity.

I believe that you are in error by asking Yaazmyn to refrain from her thread. However, I will admit that my queen will not step away from what she believes is right and even I get a bit ticked off when she digs in. I respect her because of her dedication and committment to iradicating the death penalty, political prisoners, and reparations and with that allow me to say this to you out of respect. This is a quote from my wife.

You may not like what I am about to say, but you can never deny me the right to say it!

She has made her point and will not be back as often as before because as you have said..We do have more concerns of an immediate nature so my suggesation to you my brother is that you check yourself before you wreck yourself.
We do not live in a world where homosexuality does not exist and no matter that you feel it is not a subject your comfortable with have you ever thought that there are people here who agree with her?

One cannot have a sight as important as this where one person can dictate what another chooses to share. We have come through 500 yrs of being told not to do one thing or another and from the looks of your post it is obvious that you are still acting with the same Willie lynch mentality. My queen is one of the best educators we have ever known here in Israel and we are all better for having her prescense and truth be told so aren't you.

Chill out brother homosexuality is here to stay get over it. You may say what you will in rebuttal but this will be my last response.




Shalom Prince

well, its positive that the brother-husband has spoken and that its so obvious that you and your queen have a good relationship, but that doesnt negate or prove anything in this topic. lol

i could very well have my wife on, and she would turn say, "Thabiti (as she knows me by) is not one to back down and if you look at his points on...yadda yadda" -- it would still be conjecture - and biased conjecture at that.

No one ever denied the existence of gay Africans. White culture is universal now...lol Its the Parasite's most powerful commodity. Where he goes he steals the best of his hosts, then transplants the worst of his own civilization - homosexuality included.

I will say it only once more- It's very clear in the scripture of several indigenous religions of Africa - Its the duty of all fertile men and women to procreate, raise families and interact man to woman. Many sexual behaviors are clearly prohibited - including any act that place a man with anyone but a woman. Its true - for at least the last thousand years we have known Europeans - well longer - and during that time there have been gay Africans - but God, the Ancestors and the African priesthood and community elders have always been clear - homosexuality is wrong.

It doesnt matter that you support your wive's right to speak on the issue - if her reply is anti-african. A stance that is rendered all but useless on this message board.

Peace and blessing to all my bothers and sistahs in and "out " pf the struggle . I am an afrikan by ancestry and a lesbian by all means I need to say I am not 1 to stop bearing children because of that fact that I am a lesbian I have a child she is 9 and plan to have more with my wife/ companion Oya. I in some respects understand why people fell the way they do about lesbians but all of us are not men haters and such as a matter of fact most lesbians I know what to have children it just a matter of finding or should I say choosing the right mate. This will go on so I will end this for now. PEACE and BLESSINGS.
LOVE IS LOVE and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS DEVINE
ashe

PEACE AND BLESSINGS I DO KNOW OF SHANGO AND OYA'S MARRIAGE AND ALSO OF OSUN. YOU ARE POSITIVELY RIGHT WE ARE PEOPLE AND THIS IS THE LIFE WE CHOOSE. I WANT TO THANKYOU FOR YOUR RESPONES .I HAVE FOUUND OUT WHERE THER IS AN IFA TEMPLE. I THANKYOU .
I PRAY THAT YOU HAVE ALL YOU ASK OF IN LIFE
AHSE

Homosexuality is a part of human nature. From the day we dropped out of the trees we have been this way. It is a behavior that occurs in animals as well- and they have no reasoning faculties (at least in human terms anyway). Africans did have homosexual tendencies as they were also human beings with human feelings. Because of slavery, it seems like the biggest opponents of the gay lifestyle is us post-African slavery descendants. Look at the people who are against gay marriage in the United States (lots of brown faces there). I don't find any issues with it. It doesn't bother me nor affect me in any way. I am heterosexual and happy and have learned how to accept others for how they are or want to be. I think insecurity makes one uncomfortable. Even if you are religious or have a specific viewpoint about it, that does not mean that the ENTIRE WORLD has to believe the way YOU believe. No one is the ulitmate judge. And, I do not adhere to religious doctrine as I am not religious.

Homosexuality is human nature? says who? Nor do I subscribe that an ancestor of mine came down out of trees.s perhaps you need to speek for your own beliefs.

I don't care if to homosexuals or lesbians want to get married, and I agree... it has no affect on me. However, I am not a the descendant of a monkey, the obvious allusion being made that some primates exhibit homosexual behaviour.

If you identify with primates then that is your affair.

Although homosexuality in pre-colonial Africa could have been a reality. Because there were perversions in our society. It is not right no matter who does it. In terms of energy and magnetism, only opposites generate and attract. Nothing would exist without the interaction of the male and female energy. You could not reproduce. Only the coupling of the male & Female sustains that primordial energy we call LOVE.

*My information taken from the book "The Science of Love", by John Baines

We all have our opinions we are entitled to. I just don't worry about how someone else decides to live their life. There is too much hate in the world to add on to it. To YOU it is not right, but you will continue to beat your head against the wall since the world simply does not care to listen. People will do what they want to do regardless of how you or I may feel.

Although homosexuality in pre-colonial Africa could have been a reality. Because there were perversions in our society. It is not right no matter who does it. In terms of energy and magnetism, only opposites generate and attract. Nothing would exist without the interaction of the male and female energy. You could not reproduce. Only the coupling of the male & Female sustains that primordial energy we call LOVE.

*My information taken from the book "The Science of Love", by John Baines

There is too much hate in the world to add on to it...

So true so true... smh... Can Black folk really afford to dismiss any of our people???

Even if you believe that homosexuality is a mental illness, don't the mentally ill deserve love and acceptance too, or in the least: tolerance and understanding ?


Much Peace,
Akilah :peace:

Although I was initially put off by the topic of this thread, I am richer and wiser for following my instinct, and reading it...

It is not a waste of time when African people can show one another this level of intellectuality and respect that was demonstrated in this thread... In a word, it was majestic, and in another word it was awesome! Sister Alkebulantaazar's "digging in" was, ultimately, a "turn-on" for me, because I'm a sucker for strong eloquent Black Women(smile!) But each and everyone who posted to this thread was equal to the task of debating the issue, and that was so wonderful to me.

So what that homosexuality existed in Africa Pre-Colonial times, or now... It exists like so many things we wish would go away. At one time I felt as many on this thread do about this question, a certain sense of shame in admitting that, yes, possibly our people practiced this sort of thing... Now, I see it as human/animal behavior - though an obvious deviation from the normal.

I don't see it as a mental illness, or any such outlandish proposition, but a different life choice than my own. Thinking back to when I first became attracted to females, I am glad that females had that "SOMETHING"(whew, that SOMETHING!)that delivered me from any sexual confusion!(smile!) As young boys and girls, we are naturally attracted to our own gender, and I think that some never quite get beyond that attraction even as they grow into sexual maturity... The rest is the root of their own personal sexual choices...

But I loved Sister Deepa's rules on GayBashing... I agree with them wholeheartedly, and admit to a sense of major annoyance with Gays when they start talking that talk at the slightest disagreement with them or their lifestyle. Ironically, we, as African people, Jews, and so forth, are given to the same level of sensitivity when it comes to ourselves, given our collective histories of oppression and discrimmination...

So I tend to try to be as open and sensitive to the concerns of Gays as I am Africans and others... It is only doing the same jusitice to others as I would have done for me... I think that is why I was so impressed by Sister Alkebulantaazar, her sense of universal justice... If you cannot find it in yourself to be just to others, then you will reap as you've sown...

Peace!
ISAIAH

Hello, all. Just my 2 cents. Don't know if homosexuality was in pre-colonial Africa or not. If so, probably no different than what Native Americans did in pre-colonial America. Native Americans either banished homosexuals with provisions to survive or accepted them BUT had to do women's roles in the society. And if needed, probably reinforced man power in war or other things that women never did.