Lie Number 1)

MONEY (or the love of money) IS THE ROOT TO ALL EVIL!!

We have believed this for so long that it is a regular part of our lives. And because we believe that lie (conscienously or not) many of our plights to be equal never focus on the one thing that would make us equal....MONEY!!

Now don't get me wrong, I understand that money is not the most important thing in the world....LOVE IS (thats another topic entirely). But the vast majortiy of Blacks and most whites have no idea that all of this racism and dislike between the races is ECONOMIC at its core. Slavery was about money, them setting us free was about money, the reason they dislike us is about money (even though most do not realize it), the formation of the KKK was about money, equality is about money, and most of the problems in OUR communities are about money (or the lack thereof).

Money or the love of it is not the root to all evil....a woman drowning her kids in a bathtub has nothing to do with money, kids shooting up their schools have nothing to do with money, men kid-napping little girls to rape them has nothing to do with money, and there are a host of other evils which take place that have nothing to do with money or the love of it!!!

The statement is in the King James Version of the Bible so we believed it. King James had that translated like that so his subjects whom were very God-fearing would not focus on thier aquiring wealth so that he would not have to fight for it. The Hebrew translation is "The love of money is the root to many different kinds of evil" And that IS true. But not even close to ALL evil.

Lie Number 2)

In order to aquire any measure of financial success, outside of sports or entertainment, in this country one must have a good FORMAL education, i.e. college degree.

This is the second biggest CON fed to our children, and believed by us that the country has ever produced. Colleges exist for ONE reason....to make money like any other BUSINESS. We have bought into this for generations upon generations to where it is ingrained in us.

First let me say, that I have been to college, have enough hours for two degrees, but don't have one because I came to this conclusion about college while in college (i hope that made since).
I do believe that college has its place. There are some professions such as doctor, engineer, etc. that will require college, by the way attorney is not one of them, but if you do your homework you will find that these 'high' paying professions on average make less than salespeople with no degree..i.e. real-estate agents, car salemen, etc. But I don't believe that formal education is the way out of our generational poverty. They do not teach us the things we need to know to get ahead but only the things we need to survive, i.e. get a job. (Just Over Broke).
We have to learn about the REAL value of money. It is not being consumers that make our money powerful but producers. Schools do not teach us the most important things about money like how to balance a check book, how to invest, how to manage our money, how to manage our credit, how to become a producer, how to save, how NOT to spend, how to share, how to obtain it etc. We are taught the basics to get a job, to work for somebody, and be controlled. They (employers) control our income. They control our schedule. They control our self-esteem. They control our stress and many many other things in our life. That is all formal education teaches us. We need to educate ourselves about those aspects of money and power. I mean over 70 percent of African-American adults do not own a library card!

What this thinking about formal education has caused is a low amount of hope and even lower amount of self-esteem in our communities for those who do not do well in the school system. So... they become like crabs in a barrell pulling many of those who are capable down with them because they want others to be in the same boat that they are in.

The fact is that Oprah Winfrey, Madaam C.J. Walker, Bill Gates, Dave Thomas, Sam Walton, Henry Ford, Nelson Rockerfeller and countless others have become among the wealthiest in the world WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE! Henry Ford and Dave Thomas did not make it out of grade school. If we educate ourselves in the areas of business and entrepreneurship we can obtain some measure of financial stability in our communities and start to aquire some real equality in terms of access and opportunity.

Lie Number 3)

The African-American battle for prosperity and equallity is a spiritual one.

I have the most to say about this but I will keep it short. Simply put.... we are fighting the wrong war in this regard. If our war is an economic one, how do we expect to win fighting spiritual battles. Its like we are in the wrong game. They are playing football and we are play tennis. We are just not equipped to fight them. We are in churchs, mosques, temples, etc. and they are in the board and senate rooms.

I understand and agree with the fight for morality and family values in our communities. However, that is not the battle we are losing. They are just as amoral and splintered as we are yet they have control of the money and thus all the power. The reason we a losing our youth to the media and entertainment powers that be are the financial rewards they see there. Even though most of us know that it is an illusion, THEY DO NOT. They believe it is real and lasting. And rather than fight the financial battle with financial education and weapons, we try to send our children to church. This is where they learn that the Love of money is the root to all evil. So because they really desire money, they equate themselves with being evil. This cycle stifiles their spirituality in such a way that we permanantly lose some of our youth.

I am not saying that spiritual gain is not important. In fact it is the most important because it is where true love comes from. However, one can not win the war of economics by fighting battles of spiritual warfare.


Even though the prior are MHO's this much is fact:

80 percent of all wealth in america is controlled by 20 percent of the population.

of the 20 percent that controls most of the wealth 99 percent is white

of the 20 percent 60 percent do not consider themselves sprititual people

65 percent of the wealthiest do not have college degrees

A LARGE percent of the 80 percent whom are not wealthy have never read a book about economics or finances outside of school.

I conclude with this question.

If they control all of the information that we take in.. i.e. (education), then wouldn't that allow them to control us?

AAAAAMMMMMEENN!


'one can not win the war of economics by fighting battles of spiritual warfare.'

fantastic post!


can a get another AMEN!

yes yes yes !!!!
word up

l agree 99%. the 1% l disagree is the part where you input " ...them setting us free... " (although this was not the core of your post).

peace.

Hesaid and Rich

Thank you for the positive feedback.

J'hiah

I understand how people would disagree with my statement about them setting us free, but us being set free was a byproduct and a political weapon used to keep the south as part of the union.....which was strickly an economic concern for the U.S. What do you think?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to you next one.

wow , u have some very interesting points! very informative and real! espeicially the note about college degrees!! 90% of the folk i have met who are absolutely successful have no college degree!

keep on ! this is slick! all the way around!:toast: :toast: :toast:

Great points... another thing that keeps us enslaved is that we let ourselves be inundated by the "prejudice" and "hatred" of others towards us (racism), instead of summing up and relying on the love we have for each other-- or should have.

When we start just saying, that is "your" problem things can change, when we start believing it-- things WILL change.

Good points about money, however... what has been fundamentally overlooked, is that we are at war with principalities. i.e. the Powers in the Vatican. These are the real banksters. A thorough overstanding of who and what is manipulating the economy is called for here.

To liberate us from the yoke of this beast will take more than just money. This beast is using our "science" to keep us in light code lock down, but he will turn around and call us pagans and heathens. Look very carefully at the dollar bill. You'll see that it is inundated with cryptic codes and images based on what we taught back in khemet. But it says in God we trust right? They're referring to their god in Rome. Money has a specific and particulate energy, we must demystify what it stands for... today, as a means to take control of our own destiny.

A007
If your talking about the forseeing of the industrial revolution, of course, it appears that
nothing is done from moral obligation though there are many who see beyond capitalism but
there's often some financial gain along the line. Im sure it was the use of machinary that
conveniently helped the slaves become free as (I predict) the internet will do the rest.
Thats all the favour we need from God we should be able to handle the rest.
In all honesty my personal belief is Morally
many white people truly dont know. They get confused with all kinds of givens.
I remember one time a guy in NewYork died in
a fire cos he went back to save a cat. How often do they protest to save a rare penguin in the antartic when thousands are dieing
at home. Morally confused so the protesting to
theire morality is way too short a reach.
I too say defeat them in their own game of economics.
The reason i agreed so much with your post is because I am realising these things now. We
often pray for things in a manner of
"any minute now its gonna drop from the sky"
when its really a matter of hard work,statistics and calculated risk . Basically mathematics and
research. These revelations came from me questioning why atheists often have such material blessings (as im sure many of us ask)
The answer is, the fact that they dont depend
on God makes them give 100% and not
expect a gift to fall from the sky.
I feel that post needs to echo in cyberspace forever.

Great and powerful post, Dre'. The responses are outstanding as well. Have you heard the saying that "A" students teach "B" students how to work FOR "C" students? :)

I have a question for Sekhemu because I need some clarification.

Exactly what did you mean when you wrote:

"Money has a specific and particulate energy, we must demystify what it stands for... today, as a means to take control of our own destiny."

Where does money's energy flow from and exactly how do you demystify it? Are the 3 lies that A007 wrote about what makes money mystical in your opinion and do you think that once we stop believing these lies we can free ourselves enough to do what it takes to accumulate money?

Thanks for the questions NNQueen. The energy of money flows directly from the subterranean vaults in the vatican. Although US currency is minted in Washington D.C. , the esoteric masonic codes on the back and front... attest to the fact, that it is issued by high initiates. The first step in demystifying it is to, severe the lust and desire to aquire it. To overstand...that the desiring of money, simply for the sake of having it, is the problem.

In addition, there is a pressing need right now to check and balance the beings that are "holding the purse strings" Namely the various Cardinals and CEO's that conduct rituals magic with the aid of sacred geometry and hyperdimensional physics. Sistahs... in particuliar, can destroy this agenda, by engaging in offerings and libations to the ancestors, and having them petition the creator to do the neccessary "work"... Now, it is very, very important to do this....specifically during the menstrual cycle. If there're any sistahs out there that want to learn more about conducting this rite I will oblige, however discretion is needed here fo obvious reasons. In short NNQueen, money is a tool, a magical tool, but it has been used to pull a veil over our eyes, we have to fight on the same playing field.

Lastly, yes I agree with A007 assessement of the 3 lies and we all know there are many many more to name as well. If we look down through history, none of our solutions, in terms of liberation, have been a simply matter of economics or even warfare for the matter. Heightened levels of conciousness and spirituality, notice I didn't say religion!

We are about to complete a great year in terms of astrophysics. and the earth is directly situated, under what is called a photo band. Simply put we're gonna go thru a density shift. The accumulation of money WILL NOT liberate us from the yoke of this beast . It's about the assimilation of information, and how to use it against the enemy.

In a nutshell this "Man" is trying all he can, on many different levels, including money. to prevent us from claiming our inheritance

To prevent the various dna strands in our blood stream from moving us off this plain to the 5th to 12 densities. This is liberation. But his imprisonment

More--

Thank you for your response. I would venture to say many of us if we looked closely would find close to the same things. Look at the owners of all of the construction companies around where you are and see how many were started by people with college degrees. Thanks again

Happy--

You are absolutely correct!!! We need to focus on ourselves and our loved ones. We should only try to control what we can...which are mostly our actions and attitudes. When we try to legislate and control what others do we really run into problems and frustrations...Great response!

Hesaid--

I agree 100% with your assessment. Of course morality and spirituality is and should be important to us, however there are times when it gets in the way of unity and education of certain things. ESPECIALLY because many of us are STILL being taught that money is the root to all evil. Thanks Hesaid

Queen--

No I hadn't heard that before!! But I WILL certainly use it from here on out ..lol...is that ok?

Sekhemu--

The only reason money is a mystery for us is we let others dictate what we learn about it (or don't learn about it for that matter)
Money is inanimant...it has no energy. The energy comes from those who have the most and control its distribution because they know the ends and outs of it...and we do not.

For us to focus on the spiritual (or ritual) in order to change our econmic situation IMHO is a mistake. The reason I believe it is a mistake is because it is so much more important than money that it will envitably (in every case one can cite) split up the unity of a people. It keeps us from being our best (in the issue of finances).
We get sent into battle with scripture and ritual and they are fighting with guns and knives!! For most of us spiritual prosperity is more important that financial gain but for most of us it is extremely diffulcult to focus on our spirit when we are suffering physically..(bills, poverty, pain, illness, hunger and other things that can be battled with money). Once we are fine financially we will be better spiritually and then we can focus.

Yes there are more lies to name many of them undermine our unity which is a very vital part of us prospering. IMO though if we can understand these three we will be well on our way. What do you all think?

A007 let me state for the record that I have no doubt at all that your sentiments are sincere. However I have to disagree with you on a number of points.

First and foremost, my last post was a reply to NNQueen
2) Your assertion that money has no energy and is an inanimate object is incorrect, everything, i.e. Animal, fish, vegetable, minerals and yes.... even money has energy. Einstein proved that.

Energy can be manipulated, and this is exactly what is being done in the case of money. As I said in the previous post, the masonice and esoterical emblems on the dollar bill attest to this fact.

Are you not aware that every single one of our Presidents with the Exception of J.F.K. were freemasons, most of the 33rd degree masons? Ofcourse I don't need to tell you what kinds of rites they perform, right?

You say it is a mistake for us to "focus on the spiritual (or ritual) ritual in order for us to change our economic situation. The reason I believe it is a mistake is because it is so much more important than money that it will inevitably split up the unity of a people. It keeps us from being the best (in the issues of finances)"

If spirituality is more important than money, it would seem to me that if, "it"... meaning spirituality, were to "split up the unity of a people" then that unity wasn't on a solid foundation to begin with. That in fact, the unity was for all intents and purposes... cosmetic. There is very little spiritual adhesion in our community

You say "we get sent into battle with scripture and ritual and they are fighting with guns and knives"

I don't believe I said fight with scripture, I said we are fighting principalities and that this is a spiritual war. I should think that if our enemy wanted to come at us, with guns and knives... what could prevent them? This is because he knows doing so will not solve his problems, or else it would have been done long ago.

This is proof to me that our oppressor has resolved to attack us in much more subtle ways. For instance Chemtrails!

True it is more difficult to focus on spirit when we are suffering physically. However the notion that suffering i.e." bills, poverty, pain.illness, hunger and other things can be battled with money" is very misguided, at best. and ignorant at worst. Most of our suffering is directly attributed our lack of overderstanding of African spirituality, i.e. elders, ancestors and God, in that order

Our ancestors prophecised thousands of years ago that we would forget them andtheir ways, this is mainly why we suffer.

You state that once we are fine financially we will be better spiritually and then we can focus. Many christians and muslims are doing very well financially today, but they don't sit on boards that implement foreign or domestic policy. In fact many of them are nothing more than puppets and uncle toms

Ironically most of these brothas and sistahs don't have a clue to who is pulling their stings, and the one's that do know to keep their mouth shut. Why do you think Nana Khalid Muhammad left the N.O.I.

Money is not and will not solve our problems, simply because we are not in the loop, and never will be. We are the enemy of the powers that be.

Sekhemu--

Let me say first that I respect your opinions and veiws. Let me say second that we will have to agree to disagree on this topic my brother. My first inclination was to debate your points one by one (except the 33rd mason one) until I realized that I would be doing exactly what I think we shouldn't. Your most recent post lends itself to my position that we would argue about our faiths and veiws of spiritulaity to a point where nothing is getting accomplished.

Let me ask you these two questions before I conclude:

1) Why is poverty still running rampant in Afrika for those whom are very spiritual and still remember their ancestors?

2) How is knowing about our ancestors, spirituality, and God going to change the poverty we experience as a people in America?

For the record...I do agree with your assessment of the uncle toms who have some measure of wealth and success and only use it to help themselves!!

very good points, but how many will use what resources they have to make a difference...one other thing that they seem to have over us is UNITY, we have blacks in high places who still refuse to unite...we can't win for losing....

Let me make this very clear, I don't post opinions, I post what I know are facts, opinions are arbitrary.

To answer your first question. There is no evidence that ATR practictioners are in poverty based on their spirituality. I don't know where you got that information. In fact if you know of any brothas and sistahs in the states that are practioners, I doubt very strongly you would find them homeless.

Most of our brothas and sistahs in Africa are either Muslim or christians. The poverty you speak of, for instance Ethiopia, are in predominantly Christian and muslim countries . This is an example of where you find stravation and famine. I wonder why?

If you don't know the various sciences(spirituality) our ancestors practiced and the God(s) they adored, then I can't tell you. Perhaps you haven't ventured into african mystery schools enough to know what is possible. Or simply not interested

I don't come here to "argue" about spiritual beliefs, as you suggest. I come here to offer solutions and alternatives to western conventional modes of strategy.

As I said earlier in the thread, our ancestors said that we would forget them and we would suffer the consequences.

In the ashmolean museum in London, they have a papyrus relating to the human artificial.. A.I. this ofcourse is the story of Yacub grafting the white man.

All of this is recorded in Temples in Waset i.e. karnak... and in other holy places throughout Khemet, via the Medu Neter.

I've seen these recordings, with my own eyes. Are you prepared to visit them yourself and refute what was written thousands of years ago?

You are right, perhaps we do need to agree to disagree. My approach to the liberation of our people is holistic, there is no viewing one piece of the pie, as a panacae. I think yours approach is primarily economical and western oriented.

But what is so ironic about this approach is, the white man himself is heavily steeped into quantum physics and ritual magic.

Both disciplines were thoroughly embraced by Hitler and the Nazi party during and before WWll.

Much of which was documented in a book by Rudolf Steiner called the Spear of Destiny, about the the "black sun", and isn't it interesting that the nazis would you an occult symbol. the whirling cross or what is known as a swatika on their flag?

Subsequently America and Russia divided these "scientist" after the end of the war. THis is why both countries have the most advanced weapons in the world, including REMOTE VIEWING.

I believe the Movie Minority report was a about this endeavor.

So in short, you are entitled to believe our liberation is through economic means. Clearly the white man does not. If he did, he would have Prohibited our ability to buy and sell goods and services

Who would be able to stop him from doing so

cypher--

I agree that unity is a VERY big problem among us, one of the biggest in fact! However, it is not a lie...we have known for years that there is strength in numbers, yet most of us choose to have this every man for him self/me against the world attitude. We have to change our way of thinking to a community veiw......

and one of the reasons we can't is because we can't agree on a solution because our respective faiths/religions/dogmas keep us from focusing on the problem.

Case in point...myself and Sekemu "debating" not arguing (at least I am not arguing) about what is the solution(s). Maybe it's because we can not agree on the root of the problem...and it is (IMHO) and always has been about money/power.

Let me say my brother that my posts are OPINIONS based on fact. These are my thoughts...which have orginated in my mind...and I have no problem adjusting what I believe to be true if there is an adequate amount of new information to encourage such a change. As that has not been the case, I will have to say that I humbly and respectfully disagree with you on your approach.
"It is the wisest and strongest of all men who knows that he does not know it all and his way is not the only way" -- Ghandi

And even though I agree with you when you say that mine is a western and economical approach, I see nothing wrong with having this approach since it is what enslaved us in the first place.

"So in short, you are entitled to believe our liberation is through economic means. Clearly the white man does not. If he did, he would have Prohibited our ability to buy and sell goods and services"

The white man has not prohibited our ability to buy and sell goods and services because he has seen our inability to learn and master this system and feels no threat because we can not even agree that it is important in the liberation of our people, so they are content to let us remain in ignorance and laugh at our incompetence behind our backs about us focusing on spiritualiy while they have taken over because of their economic prowess not their respective faiths.

"One can not build all of the parts of a house and expect it to stand without first focusing on a solid foundation."---- unknown

I applaud your holistic approach, but my belief is that the foundation of our problem is economic so that is where I have focused my attention.
your brother in the struggle

Dre'

well said Dre,

The slavery you referred to in your reply was based on money, true, but it was maintained by brain washing. This is why many of our people today buy into the western oriented mind set.

It is for this very reason that Japan prevented foreign belief systems to be promulgated in their country for hundreds of years.

On the surface it may appear to be about money, but it is more about control over the minds of men and women, i.e. their souls

You are right about the white man not prohibiting us from buying goods and services, but you are wrong in your ascertion that we have failed to master this system. Black people have made leaps and bounds economically, in spite of racism.

In fact there are more educated black people than ever. The problem is that there is a glass ceiling in place, and not only because of money.

Dre. do you honestly think that the white male power elite, that use our knowledge based on what we taught them thousands of years ago, would allow us to participate in their agenda.

You can call it economical or whatever you want to call it. The fact remains no matter how well educated we are, or how much money we have. There are deliberate road blocks, preventing us from liberation.

Perhaps you do not believe that the white man conspires against us?

If this were about money why is it the Jews could not buy their way out of Nazi Germany? is it because they didn't know the system? They knew the system so well that indeed they were blamed for a poor German economy.

So what did hitler do, he used the occult and propaganda to win over the hearts and minds of the German people. As a means to justify his extermination of the Jews.

Did you know that the helped finance this campaign, just like they did slavery.

Not only did they help underwrite the Nazi party, the Jesuits knights helped train them in the black arts. WHy would they do that. What does "magic" have to do with empowerment?

For the same reasons Wiccans(witches) were burnt at the stake during the salem witch hunts

Wiccans practiced a matriarchal oriented belief system based on nature. This was diametrically opposed to christianity, obviously a patriarchal religion.

So they could not have that now could they?

Brotha you can believe this is only about money, and I can see why you would, but that is not the case. It is about power, and there things that you cannot do with money, no matter how rich or fiscally astute you are.

Secret societies rule the world. Emphasis on secret. But what are they so secretive about and what secrets are they gaurding?

Isn't a little strange that throughout the 500 years of slavery, the catholic church and the slave masters never had a problem with Vodun, or candomble, or even santeria, as long as the practioners used the catholic saints?

What does that say to you? it says they directly or indirectly approved of it.

It's not like they didn't know these yoruba based systems didn't exist.

this is because they were using the same rituals, including animal sacrifice. How do you think their clergy learned how to do exorcisms?

I don't need to convince anyone of this, this is and has been proven. There just now letting some of this come to light now.

There's a "novel" turned film coming out called the order.

And lastly you say whites "laugh at our incompetence behind our backs about focusing on spirituality while they have taken over because of their economic prowess not their respective faiths"

Wrong! History 101

White men, a few white men. Got in the position of "economic prowess" by the bible and the bullet. If you didn't accept their religion than you got shot.

Something about this religion thing huh?

And on top of that, particuliarly in this country... from 250 years of free labor

If the white man is laughing about anything, he's laughing about the fact that the majority of us don't know he stole our legacy and uses what we taught him against us.

It's mind over matter. Not matter(money) over the mind. Unless some people love money so much they can easily be brainwashed.

He **** sure ain't got nothin to laugh at me behind my back for.

Btw the vast majority of black folk don't have to come full circle to who we truly are, just a critical majority of us do.

""And lastly you say whites "laugh at our incompetence behind our backs about focusing on spirituality while they have taken over because of their economic prowess not their respective faiths"

Wrong! History 101

White men, a few white men. Got in the position of "economic prowess" by the bible and the bullet. If you didn't accept their religion than you got shot.

Something about this religion thing huh? ""

Not really....it was and is smoke and mirrors!! They want you to accept their religions so they can control your thoughts and actions ...not because they believe!!! Do you believe that these relgious leaders (especially those who claim to believe in Jesus) would kill, steal, and destroy for money and power's sake if they REALLY believed in the faith that they were killing people for?

It's just like I said with the first lie..... King James commissioned and oversaw a version of the Bible that would keep people from trying to acquire wealth by have among its doctrine that "MONEY IS THE ROOT TO ALL EVIL" yet he himself was a homasexual atheist.

I agree with you when you say that its about power and control of our minds but I believe they want both of those things so they can keep the only thing they have ever wanted...WEALTH!!

And for the record I Love only the Lord and my people for money is just a TOOL to change the lives of those I love while they are here on earth.

you apparently didn't understand the gist of my pointing out to you. that the white men gave you the option of the bible or the bullet. You left out the fact that my statement was a correction to your notion that white men got where they are because of economical prowess.

The point was they used the means of force and free labor... to get where they are today. And Still do.

"do you believe that religious leaders would kill, steal, and destroy for money powers sake if they REALLY believed in the faith they were killing people for"

You're a tad naive brotha, The conquistadors had no problem killing heathens who were not part of the Roman Catholic church
Afterall they were infidels. Might make right, in this case relgion, backed by the pope in Rome, was the origin of their might.

Let me ask you something now, do you think that the crusades was a war based on money. It was a religious war. To claim Jerusalem for the christians. Money was, at best.... secondary.

Now since you asked me a series of questions, I think it's only fair that ask you some as well

Do you believe in capitalism? if you do, let me ask you another question. Is capitalism good for democracy?

Also do you believe that white men conspire against black people in secret cabals?

And lastly, something you never directly addressed, if our ancestors docemented, in writing... in Egyptian Monuments, that we would be subjected to these conditions, because we forgot them, are you prepared to refute this.

Mind you this has nothing to do with religion. people from all backgrounds can read it for themselves. Whether they by atheist, muslim, jew, bhudhist, capitalist, satanist, whomever. The writings are there.

You say you believe in the lord, by that I would assume Jesus Christ as well.

Are you aware that the story of the birth, resurrection, and the second coming of Christ, was prophesized in Egypt before there ever was a bible or people called Hebrews?

This is recorded in temples and papyrus throughout Egypt. Egyptologist don't always have a religious affiliation. Would you claim that this is a matter of religion, based on their information?

Ofcourse you wouldn't. because this is not about different religious interpretation or opinion. It's about what has come to pass based on the information already given. In the medu neter!

THe sages of Khemet were infinitely more spiritually sophisticated than many would suggest. No where in any of their papyrus, temples, sarcophagi or tombs, do they even suggest that we would get out of this madness by the means of money

Do you know enough about this culture to repute this, that is the question I have for you. As i said, and let me re-iterate... this has nothing to do with anyone's religious background, you can do the research from a purely historical and archaelogical point of view.

I'm no christian, but I have read the bible. I can find no place in the Bible,,, where it says we would be delivered by the use of and knowledge of money.

btw you proved my point about this man, wanting to control us by our thoughts and actions. Isn't this what the scriptures say satan wants to do? control our thoughts and actions. but he doesn't want money does he? he needs what? souls

Maybe satan is not some spook under the ground but a man in flesh.

"You're a tad naive brotha, The conquistadors had no problem killing heathens who were not part of the Roman Catholic church
Afterall they were infidels. Might make right, in this case relgion, backed by the pope in Rome, was the origin of their might."

I totally agree with you on this point...my question was WHY did they want people to be catholic? If it were to save these infidels souls, then killing them because they didn't believe would hardly seem the solution...would it? I submit that this and the holy wars were and are a MASK for what the real agenda is...and that is money and power!!! And isn't it easy to see how they gain support of killing people if it is about "holiness"...but would lack the same support if they openly came out and said..."we just want to kill people because we want control of 36 percent of the worlds oil" (in the case of the middle east)

"Let me ask you something now, do you think that the crusades was a war based on money. It was a religious war. To claim Jerusalem for the christians. Money was, at best.... secondary."

See explaination above.... But I respectfully disagree that money was secondary....they just could not let it be known that money was the primary focus or they would have had very little support.

"Do you believe in capitalism? if you do, let me ask you another question. Is capitalism good for democracy?"

I believe capitalism is the best way for us to prosper as a people here on earth in terms of economics. Democracy is not ever going to be good until it is truly democratic. What I mean is that in its current state...there are still very few people making decisions for the masses. It doesn't matter what economic system is in place if the officials are corrupted.


"Also do you believe that white men conspire against black people in secret cabals?"

Of course and not only there!!!

"And lastly, something you never directly addressed, if our ancestors docemented, in writing... in Egyptian Monuments, that we would be subjected to these conditions, because we forgot them, are you prepared to refute this."

I am not prepared to refute this on from a historical standpoint because it is obvious that you are more versed on that subject than I am. What I am prepared to say is...regardless of what was written when and/or by whom, it is still your (and others who believe the same as you do) INTERPRETATION of our current situation that lends itself to these predictions being true/fact. What I mean is noone can say for certain that our current situation is a result of forgetting our ancestors....it was a matter of opinion when they wrote it and it is a matter of opinion wheather you believe what they wrote is true. Because if it were not opinion.....then it would be FACT that I PREDICTED that people(you and I in this case) would focus on spiritual principles before they focused on economical ones. Don't you see that is what they want us to do because we (noone) will ever completely agree? It is easy to agree that 1 dollar + 1 dollar = 2 dollars because we can PROVE IT by operation. However, we will never agree on spiritual principles because there is too much that can not be proven....and this arguement becomes a perpetual distraction.


"Are you aware that the story of the birth, resurrection, and the second coming of Christ, was prophesized in Egypt before there ever was a bible or people called Hebrews?"

Of course I am aware of it....what does that have to do with anything. If you are attempting to discredit my belief in Jesus it is not possible because my faith is not bound by books (such as the bible) or time references...and for the record....it was a prophesy as I understood it, which means that it had not come true yet. Thats neither here nor there because it has no bearing on this discussion.

"Do you know enough about this culture to repute this, that is the question I have for you. As i said, and let me re-iterate... this has nothing to do with anyone's religious background, you can do the research from a purely historical and archaelogical point of view.

I'm no christian, but I have read the bible. I can find no place in the Bible,,, where it says we would be delivered by the use of and knowledge of money."

No I do not know enough about the culture to refute it. I have no desire to research it from a historical and archaelogical point of veiw because I feel it has very little bearing. Do you believe those prophets that you refer to in the culture were doing research of a 1000 years prior in order to predict the future? I am looking to the future and that requires me to only know the immediate past (last 200 years).

I am sure you didn't find this in the bible as it was a tool to control the masses in their pursuit of tools of liberation (one being money). However, it sounds like when you refer to delievery of our people you are referring to our ultimate deliverance and if so...trust me I realize that our ultimate deliverance will not come from money...but I am only referring to our existence here and now until the Lord comes back.

Let me ask you this...What would you do with a Billion dollars? And do you think you could ever earn such an amount?

I will answer your last question first, I wouldn't want a billion dollars to do anything with it. I have my reasons why, and it is to exhausting to go it to that right now

You say you cannot refute what was prophecised on the temple walls and monuments of Egypt, and then to grossly oversimplify their overstanding and translation.

In effect you have completely contradicted yourself. If you cannot dispute what was written by your own ancestors, particuliarly in light of the fact the information was secreted in tombs, temples and papyri over a 6000 year span.... how can you call it their opinion?

Moreover the words, "people who believe as I do" that's a very slick and cowardly comment to inject in a very serious dialogue. The people you refer to who "believe" as I do, come from a varied array of backgrounds and idealogy.

You some how seem to suggest that because of the common translation of scripts and text... something you know little or nothing about, that one size fits all in the way of agenda

Scientist, from the University of Chicago as well as the British museum, as well as Writers like Jon Henrik Clark and others from the pan-african community have all read and translated the same information.

Is it your assertion that they all have the same socio-political agenda? Ofcourse to assume that would be ridiculous

Your claim that noone can say for certain that our current situation is a result of forgetting our ancestors" it was a matter of opinion

How much do you know about African belief systems? let's get to the bottom of this. I'm not just talking about Khemet, I'm talking about Yoruba, Ashanti. Khosa, Vodun.

All throughout Africa, whether it be 500 years ago or 5000 thousand the message is the same, honor your ancestors.

The warnings that were given to us weren't just given by the Egyptians when it came to prophecy, are they all wrong.

But you will admit that you know little about ATR's, correct? yet you claim it is opinion, I would say that's throwing out the baby with the bath water, and a bit arrogant

You say that I am refering to our ultimate deliverance that will not come by money.

What do you think true deliverance is? I see you really do believe that money can save us until "the lord" comes back? Oh I see. the fact that christ threw the money changers out of the temple was insignificant I guess.

if you believe in capitalism then you also believe in the white power structure that is based on profit driven exploitation.

This practice is based on the formula high profits for little wages. In addition the transferring of high and low skilled employment overseas. to meet the demands of multinational banks and corporation.

This is capitalism. it works in any form of democracy

I didn't ask you if you WANTED a billion dollars. I asked "What would you do with a Billion dollars? And do you think you could ever earn such an amount?" And you avoided the question.

I admit that I have very little knowledge of ATR's (i have a little) but the fact remains that with ANY spirituality the beliefs are based on opinion and interpretation. Of course what I said about the ATR's was opinion...(because it can not be proven) but neither can the ATR's.

The reason I said what I did about opinion is because you believe that we are in our situations that we are in because we fail to honor our ancesters (because someone prophesied this long ago) and I believe we are in the situation we are in because we refuse to acknowledge that all of the oppression and suffering we have (and still) endure is as simple as GREED on the part of whites and a few blacks.

So I ask you this....How do we prove which of us is right? You will give your information and sources.....I will give my information and sources and people will form an OPINION on which they believe.

And for the record I think only LOVE can save us to the Lord comes back...but it is sure easier to love if one is not needy and/or lacking.

Peace and Love

...I think that siding with the Beast would be detrimental to us all...yes, the system of America is a Beast....we will NEVER be equal to the ruling class in this country....we are not even "Americans", we are "Afro-Americans", and we've been hear longer than most....

....until the system is changed, or done away with completely, we will always just be some ******....the "Founding Fathers" of this nation cared nothing about us (except maybe to ravage our women)....these white-superimist men are plastered all over this money that you say will bring us out of slavery.....will salt quench ones thirst...???...

....in order for this American system to be successful, there MUST be a LARGE class of poor people.....and WE are apart of this poor class.....money will not bring us out of slavery, knowledge of self will.....

...the #1 Lie that is keeping black folk in chains is Christianity....as long as we continue to blindly and ignorantly hold on to this European religion, we will ALWAYS be subordinate to those who gave us this religion....Europe conquered the world with the Cross...

...all who know History will know that this powerhouse of Amerikkka WILL NOT LAST FOR TOO MUCH LONGER.....it is not the time to side with that which is damned, unless you want to also be damned.......Amerikkka will be taken out by the same things that allowed it to rise to "greatness".....

very well said Rosetta, my sentiments exactly.

If you need a source as to what our ancestors prophecised, Read the pyramid text by Wallis Budge. And the Gods of the Egyptian by The same Author. In fact I will do you one even better, you can go to the schomburg research center homepage, and enter the respective topic, and you will get periodicals and sources from various authors.

Prophecy is not a beliefe, it is a fact. YOu must not know the difference. If something my ancestors wrote came to pass, like our bondage for 400 years came to pass, that is not a belief.
Give me a break, are you serious

I don't need to avoid the question of what to do with a billion dollars because I don't care about having that kind of money. Like rosetta said, paper with dead masons on it.

In my earlier post I gave a thorough and accurate account of what the energy of money has done to the unitiated. Yet you say money had no energy except the energy we give it, a clear contradiction in terms

I think you are a litte out of your league when it comes to the overstanding and knoledge of the use of the occults on the part of the white ruling elite.

You admit to not be knoledgeable about these matters yet you continue to chalk it up to belief. This is not about belief. It is a fact that ritual magick is being practiced by cardinals et al in the Vatican.

If you diasgree with this fact, that is your problem. Go after your wealth, it has become your God

Dreamfunk says:
"...I think that siding with the Beast would be detrimental to us all...yes, the system of America is a Beast....we will NEVER be equal to the ruling class in this country."

I agree with you. I think siding with the Beast would be detrimental...but I believe the BEAST is ignorance and greed not the system. I have been giving my opinion on how to fight a WAR AGAINST THEM on their turf. I know we will never be equal to someone whom has all the control and power, yet we can not even begin to talk about taking over our homeland(which they control too) until we have aquired some measure of wealth as a people. It is retarded to think we can get to and take over our continent and most of us can afford to fly to the next state!!

Rosetta and Sekhemu---

All I will say is see LIE #3. This religion (or whatever you call it) has you two blinded, and it is what they have been banking on for 2500 years.

If capitalism is SOOO evil then relinquish your homes and cars and clothes and COMPUTERS and don't participate in it!!! I submit that neither of you will do that. Does that make hypocrites??

rosetta stated-- "Anyone who says that the accumulation of wealth can be done outside of our Lord YHWH is again attempting to make a FOOL out anyone who will listen."

So is it your contention that all of us who have some measure of wealth did so inside YHWH??

Sekhemu, you did avoid the question of what would you do with a billion dollars (and I knew you would) for two reasons. #1 You have been blinded by religion and ancestor worship. #2 YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH IT! So...in order to deflect you say you wouldn't want that much money. You and 90 percent of the rest of us blacks in the WORLD feel the same way. DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO FEEL, SO YOU WILL NOT TRY TO AQUIRE IT??? Do you know how much land in Africa and resources to have that land prosper a Billion dollars could buy?

The ONLY two things that the white man has ever cared about is MONEY and GUNS. Money/land/wealth to by GUNS. GUNS to kill and steal more money/land/wealth. Its that plain and simple and because people like you two REFUSE to believe it is that simple we (the black people of the world) stay in bondage.

These rituals and magic and other things you believe in may in fact go on....in fact I will except it as the truth because you two say so, BUT if your religion/faith teaches you two that your actions are controlled by any thing or anybody besides your God and yourselves....it is failing you.

Last but certainly not least, ANYONE who KNOWS me knows the money/wealth is nowhere near my God. As I said before, it is merely a TOOL to regain our freedom. If you think that we can regain our homelands without money/wealth you are mistaken.

BTW...I am sensing some hostility here..:lol: Why are you two angry with me for expressing what I believe?? I have called you no names nor have I attacked you personally or otherwise so am I being attacked? It is of no consequence though...... so express yourselves as you would like. There is nothing you can say to incite anger or hate in me. I will love you still.

I could care less about a billion dollars, the white rulling class is scared of the black revolutionary more than billionaires and millionaires. If that weren't the case, why are most of our black nationalist either dead or in jail. These people are not threatened by Oprah Winfrey or Bob Johnson. They were threatened by People like Malcom X and Kwame Nkrumah. Why? because they threatened the whole system of capitalism and it's strangle hold on people of color.

Capitalism and democracy are two different things. The Iroquoi confederation had democracy, capitalism was not a part of their experience. They did very well, until you know who arrived

Bill Cosby trying to buy NBC was the greatest corporate threat ever leveled against the beast, and you what happened there, with his family and all. Made the brotha back down

Money does not equal wealth. The money we use is intrinsically tied into foreign investment. If any one of these foreign countries or institutions decide they don't want to buy Treasury notes, you can kiss your little Benjamins and Lincolns good bye.

The currency of this country is controlled by multi-national banks. And the value of the dollar, is based on the fiscal policy of the respective institutions. So who cares about a billion dollars. the gold reserves of this country don't even belong to us... I thought gold was the collateral for cash.

This is why money is called a promisary note, a loan. Ok? So stop trying to play like I'm dodgin this ridiculous notion of a billion dollars.

You are right we will never get control over our homeland, why? because we don't make weapons or have a standing army, if your premise is to fight purely in a conventional sense

The other thing is, I don't belong to a religion or practice a religion. I don't read a book that tells me how to behave, nor do I post what I believe. I post what is fact and can be proven. So stop trying to frame this discourse in term of religion.

African mystycism is not a religion.

WHich leads me to my other point, you have gone out of your way to claim that what my and your ancestors warned us about is opinion. I gave you references to check.... to disprove what I told you, here's another one, The Great Pyramid decoded, by peter lemesieur.

This book breaks down the chronoligical order of the scriptures, including moses, jesus, mohammed, including... and up to the modern era. In addition to our captivity in this country

All of this is done mathematically and scientifically using the dimensions of the inner chambers as the reference.

But you will say this is interpretation withou teven reading the book, i would imagine

It appears you are reluctant to give our people, from days gone by, the credit they deserve. Perhaps because you know full well that you being the capitalist that you are... cannot server two masters at the same time.

as far as my "faith"teaching me my actions being controlled by anything but my God and myself and it failing me. That's pretty ignorant. How would you know what is failing me? particuliarly when you don't know what kinds of successes I've had over the years

God does not control man, this is why we have free will
"If you think we can regain our homeland without money/wealth, you are mistaken"
I don't need to regain my "homeland" nobody can tell me what or where my home is in the first place. But let us entertain this notion of buying back a homeland.

I seem to recall native americans signed treaties and made transactions to re-aquire their homeland.

Every single treaty was and has been broken, without exception.
Today most black African nations are in debt to either the IMF or the world bank

So for the sake of argument, let's pretend a consortium of blacks go to africa to buy some land.

Who really has the power to sell, and how will the a large influx of people affect the ecology and natural resources of a given country

The countries in Africa are heavily in debt. And the IMF and world bank will be calling the shots as to where and who will be sold land.
These two institutions certainly will not cave in to pressure by blacks. As a matter of fact these are the very same institutions that Malcom tried to get other african countries to distance themselves from.

I see where this is headed, you believe that all our problems or at least our solution is strictly monetary. As I said to you in the earlier post, this beast has no intention of removing his grip from our necks

He knows that he's done a good job with his spells and bag of tricks to keep us from knowing who we truly are. What do you think the COINTEL program was about?

The movement was about liberation, from the yoke of capitalism, not democracy. And it began with the mind, not with how much money we needed to topple whitey.

If they control the money and they print the money, but we have no army to take it from them, it's a losing battle. Even if we had the mindset to as you say, put our resources together and challenge this man.

Who's gonna stop them from crushing us? Russia. this is why I say our ancestors knew what they were saying and gave explicit details as to how this would all end

So once again, think about now. we don't have the numbers to challenge them. Because they control all the financial institutions, and they have the weapons to defend them

Sekhemu you wrote
this is why I say our ancestors knew what they were saying and gave explicit details as to how this would all end

Share with us the details as to how this would all end. I read where you spoke about the conditions we're in is because we forgot them (our ancestors). Could you share with us more of this prophesy. Does it say when and how we're going to emerge victorious? You don't have to go into great details, just summarize your thoughts with the highlights of the prophesy.

Thanks

Sekehmu--
""I could care less about a billion dollars, the white rulling class is scared of the black revolutionary more than billionaires and millionaires. If that weren't the case, why are most of our black nationalist either dead or in jail. These people are not threatened by Oprah Winfrey or Bob Johnson. They were threatened by People like Malcom X and Kwame Nkrumah. Why? because they threatened the whole system of capitalism and it's strangle hold on people of color. ""

Like I said...You have no idea what to do with it and less of an idea on how to aquire it so you deflect with these notions of why you THINK they were afraid of Malcom and Kwame. As for Oprah and Bob...of course they are not afraid of them because they have no desire to help us become free. What threat would they pose?


""Money does not equal wealth. The money we use is intrinsically tied into foreign investment. If any one of these foreign countries or institutions decide they don't want to buy Treasury notes, you can kiss your little Benjamins and Lincolns good bye.

The currency of this country is controlled by multi-national banks. And the value of the dollar, is based on the fiscal policy of the respective institutions. So who cares about a billion dollars. the gold reserves of this country don't even belong to us... I thought gold was the collateral for cash.

This is why money is called a promisary note, a loan. Ok? So stop trying to play like I'm dodgin this ridiculous notion of a billion dollars.""

Do not attempt to educate me on money or wealth. You are neither qualified nor open minded enough to do so. I would venture to say that I know more about the subject than you and rosetta put together. I only say this because of you short sided responses to direct questions about money.

I know that money does not equal wealth. This is why many times I wrote "money/wealth". And you are dodging the notion of a billion dollars.

"You are right we will never get control over our homeland, why? because we don't make weapons or have a standing army, if your premise is to fight purely in a conventional sense"

That is exactly my point.....MONEY/WEALTH and GUNS!! I believe I have said that. Of course we are going to need an army to protect ourselves and our lands.....It is the only reason the Native americans don't have their land/wealth.


"WHich leads me to my other point, you have gone out of your way to claim that what my and your ancestors warned us about is opinion. I gave you references to check.... to disprove what I told you, here's another one, The Great Pyramid decoded, by peter lemesieur."

No I haven't gone out of my way to prove what they warned us about was opinion....I have simply stated that your INTERPRETATION of our state of being in this day and time is OPINION. You say that we are in bondage because you believe these prophesies that say its because we forgot our ancesters. I say we are in bondage because I believe EVERY SINGLE RULER SINCE MOSES when they assert that WEALTH AND ARMIES ARE THE ONLY REAL POWER ONE HAS IN PROTECTING HIS PEOPLE. Now...who is to say which of us is right. You have historical references and I have historical references... the only variable is what we choose to believe. Doesn't that make it OPINION????

"The other thing is, I don't belong to a religion or practice a religion. I don't read a book that tells me how to behave, nor do I post what I believe. I post what is fact and can be proven. So stop trying to frame this discourse in term of religion.

African mystycism is not a religion. "

I don't care what you call it....It is based on BELIEFS not facts. Every religion, faith, practice, and mystycism is based on some things that can NOT be proven. Yours is no exception...even though you believe it with all of your heart....but then...don't the other fanatics?

Rosetta--

These ARE THE 3 of the LIES THAT KEEP US WHERE WE ARE!!! The proof is that we are arguing about your religious beliefs!

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote....I am not a racist and those whom have read my other postings and/or know me know that the ONLY desire I have in me is the uplifting of our people!

I love you anyway boo :D :kiss:

in repsonse to Zero Gravity. In the Temple of Waset, commerated by Amenhotep lV. you can also buy the book by Wallace Budge. the Gods of the Egyptians. you may also want to get "the contendings of Heru and Set, by Gerald Massey

On the south western wall it says. Ra created man from tears. Men/reth the children of iniquity who rebel against the Gods. will be fettered in a distant land, by boats for 400 years

After this period of time the Eye of Ra i.e. Utchat... will take vengeance on the captors of men with great blood shed and burning..

This is passage is found in coffins, papyri and monuments all throughout khemet,

Naturally the eye of Ra is not a conventional military force. But the beast put it on the dollar bill over a pyramid. So even they know the deal about their end

Zerogravity, for at least 4000 years the sages in Khemet kept very detailed accounts of what our people would experience in the future. The solution was always spiritual. To re-institute formulas, elixirs and invocations for restoration

#1 We have we traded in slavery for over 560 years AND here we still remain.

#2 Isn't the Eye of Ra a little late, IF coming at all?

I sumbit that if the solution is spiritual we are indeed doomed because we (all blacks across the world) will never agree on a single spiritual truth.

Thanks Sekhemu...I have other questions, but I guess I should read the material you mentioned first. There is one question that I would like your input on ... How have you incorporated this knowledge into your everyday life? How do you use what you know on a daily basis for the enrichment of yourself and your family? I humbly ask you these questions to gain a better understanding or perspective, if you will, from someone that is well versed in the subject.

Please, anyone else that would like to share...by all means.

I'm gonna make one last post on this topic, and if A007 wants to have the last word, good for him. My ego will be intact lol

Let me ask you a question. Do you truly think, that the powers that be, will sell native americans, or blacks... weapons to bring about their demise.

Didn't Marcus Messiah Garvey Try to get black people together? You see how they got rid of him.

YOu claim I am deflecting the issue of money by bringing up black revolutionaries. They are, and always will be related. If you were to admit that, then you would have to accept that fact that this is true

I know of no black revolutionary or nationalist, many of them with advanced college degrees.... that subscribed to capitalism as the liberating agent of our people. Certainly not in this country.

Show me a black nationlist millionaire? that's an oxymoron!

The fact that most are dead or in jail tell us what kind of threat they were. Not Even Farrakhan is a black nationalist

I'm gonna ask you this . for sake of argument, say we come to the mindset and agree to put our money together.

We don't control the courts. we don't control the intellegence agencies, we don't control the money markets, or the military, or the schools, or the police departments or the banks, or the congress and the senate. and certainly not the executive branch of government

Do you think money is gonna wrestle that control away from white folks.

Do you actually think white folks will sell weapons to us... so we can turn around and take over?

I mentioned several sources... that can be verified, as to what I say about our ancestors. but you don't investigate them... yet you call me narrow-minded.

If something comes to pass, or can be proven, that's called a fact. I told you what I say is not opinion. and that it has been proven, over and over again. Then gave you references.

If the sages of time gone by, wrote down information via divination, and it came to pass, not once but a number of times......what do you call that? lucky guesses

But you would never know because you haven't checked to see if it was true or not

If somebody tells me something by word of mouth, I'm gonna go find out if it's true or not, religion has nothing to do with it

One other thing. I will entertain your question about this whole billion dollars, Here's what I would do with it. I would open up a chain of book stores, a hand full of radio stations, and get some brothas and sistahs "adequate" legal representation, in and out of prison.

However I would expect to face major opposition, particuliarly when it comes to buy radio stations and the legal reprensation issues. Which brings us back to square one again. The same problem with fighting the beast.
Let's step away from the whole metaphysical dyamic here. lGetting back to your premise about money/wealth. No concueror is going to provide the apparatus for a subjected people to overthrow them. unless they themselves self-destruct

THis is what happened to the Roman Empire... to a lesser degree. The former slaves were never able to over come the ruling class.

Nor will we overthrow this beast by material means and/or gains. but you are welcome to think other wise.

you can write for as long as you want. but and many other people know better.

BTW, you need to be careful who you call fanatic. if I'm not mistaking most of the lynching and abortion clinic bombings were, and are done by christian fanatics. Not by brothas and sistahs that choose to embrace their ancestors

whatever A007, i was answering Zerogravity. you can change dates if you like, but the post wasn't answering you in the first place.

Good questions Zerogravity, As far incorporating this knowledge in my everyday life and for the enrichment of myself and family.

By divination I can warn people of what the possibilities are in their future. as well as what a departed loved one is trying to communicate to them.

We can only share what others want to take part in. So to this end I do not discuss opinions. I can only share what has been tried and true

Unlike religious dogma, I do not subscribe to the notion of hell. Nor do I believe that the creator loves everyone. We see that every day in nature

So thank you Zerogravity, I am honored to answer all that I can

"Let me ask you a question. Do you truly think, that the powers that be, will sell native americans, or blacks... weapons to bring about their demise."

MOST DEFINATELY!!!!!!! They have sold their children, their mothers, and their family and friends for MONEY....They WILL have NO PROBLEM with selling us weapons if the price is high enough. Anyway...if we have enough resources...we don't need to buy their weapons...we can make our own....we are smarter than they are!

"I know of no black revolutionary or nationalist, many of them with advanced college degrees.... that subscribed to capitalism as the liberating agent of our people. Certainly not in this country. "

And yet here we still are. That is EXACTLY my point. Shouldn't we understand by now that there needs to be a different approach...duh.

"We don't control the courts. we don't control the intellegence agencies, we don't control the money markets, or the military, or the schools, or the police departments or the banks, or the congress and the senate. and certainly not the executive branch of government

Do you think money is gonna wrestle that control away from white folks.

Do you actually think white folks will sell weapons to us... so we can turn around and take over?"

MONEY controls all of those things that you have mention........Yes we will take over SOME of the control of some of the branches of government if we have enough resources. Yes...I KNOW...white folks will sell us weapons for the right price....HISTORY HAS PROVEN THEY WILL SELL ANYTHING TO ANYONE IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT!...Who do you think sold IRAQ their first nuclear weapons?


"BTW, you need to be careful who you call fanatic. if I'm not mistaking most of the lynching and abortion clinic bombings were, and are done by christian fanatics. Not by brothas and sistahs that choose to embrace their ancestors"

You are absolutely right, I humbly apologize if I offended you.


"whatever A007, i was answering Zerogravity. you can change dates if you like, but the post wasn't answering you in the first place."

I have not changed any dates! Europeans had us on slave ships before America was "discovered" by columbus. Where do you think the colonists go the idea from.

That would constitute bondage in a foreign land by boats wouldn't it?? And one of my points is....HERE WE STILL ARE! Where is your EYE of Ra and why haven't we been delievered. Because if the prophesies are indeed FACT, then we are due any day now...because we are well past 400 years bondage.

Like I said man whatever. you can have the last word. I'm sure your ego would appreciate it

Like I said man whatever. you can have the last word. I'm sure your ego would appreciate it

Not quite sure why I abandoned the topic, but it is worth revisiting. Does anyone agree with these three lies?

Not quite sure why I abandoned the topic, but it is worth revisiting. Does anyone agree with these three lies?




A007,

Are you certain that the premises lead to the drawn conclusion in the thread title?

A007,

Are you certain that the premises lead to the drawn conclusion in the thread title?



Absolutely. Do you disagree?

Absolutely. Do you disagree?




A007,

First, would you explain why you are absolutely certain!

A007,

First, would you explain why you are absolutely certain!



I explained at the start of the thread. Shall I repost?

I explained at the start of the thread. Shall I repost?




A007,

Yes, it can be brief, the thread is very old, maybe you have change somewhat by now!

I explained at the start of the thread. Shall I repost?





A007,

Is there a problem?

I explained at the start of the thread. Shall I repost?




A007,

The reason I am leaving these posts is to give you some idea how long it takes you to reply. This is a bad habit and depletes anyone's motivation to dialogue with you. We have gone over this before, just thought I would show what a hanging post looks like. But of course you will come roaring back as though nothing has happened. Be well my friend! See you whenever you decide to return!

A007,

The reason I am leaving these posts is to give you some idea how long it takes you to reply. This is a bad habit and depletes anyone's motivation to dialogue with you. We have gone over this before, just thought I would show what a hanging post looks like. But of course you will come roaring back as though nothing has happened. Be well my friend! See you whenever you decide to return!



Then why not say that is why your are posting? No I don't have a problem. It seems as if you do. As I have said before...on most days, unless I am off I visit destee only once, maybe twice a day.

I asked you a question...just as I have in other threads and you (yet again) declined to answer ...in your own words "This is a bad habit and depletes anyone's motivation to dialogue with you."

Let me say that when I can get you to answer questions so we can have an open and honest dialouge that I enjoy it. That just hasn't seemed to be the case in our last couple of debates. I apologize if the length of time that it takes me to get back to the threads bother you, but such is life, you can't have it all.

peace.

Then why not say that is why your are posting? No I don't have a problem. It seems as if you do. As I have said before...on most days, unless I am off I visit destee only once, maybe twice a day.

I asked you a question...just as I have in other threads and you (yet again) declined to answer ...in your own words "This is a bad habit and depletes anyone's motivation to dialogue with you."

Let me say that when I can get you to answer questions so we can have an open and honest dialouge that I enjoy it. That just hasn't seemed to be the case in our last couple of debates. I apologize if the length of time that it takes me to get back to the threads bother you, but such is life, you can't have it all.

peace.




A007,

Okay, I understand. Now, why are you absolutely certain. That was our last exchange. Also, shortly, I will be going to chat for a brief period and probably not respond as rapidly. Please overlook my concerns!

A007,

Okay, I understand. Now, why are you absolutely certain. That was our last exchange. Also, shortly, I will be going to chat for a brief period and probably not respond as rapidly. Please overlook my concerns!



Because there are no logical and/or factual theories that have been presented to me that contradict my conclusions.

Because there are no logical and/or factual theories that have been presented to me that contradict my conclusions.





A007,

Let me try and explain something, whereas you reject the King James Bible for some rightful reasons, my assignment is to uncover the mistranslations. Now, actually we are on the same track, but with different view points. Until and unless or by divine intervention, we will not be able to reconcile our view points. But I also enjoy our talks, very much so. The question becomes, will blacks with opposing views ever come together, that is the million dollar question.

A007,

Let me try and explain something, whereas you reject the King James Bible for some rightful reasons, my assignment is to uncover the mistranslations. Now, actually we are on the same track, but with different view points. Until and unless or by divine intervention, we will not be able to reconcile our view points. But I also enjoy our talks, very much so. The question becomes, will blacks with opposing views ever come together, that is the million dollar question.




The answer to the question is PROBABLY NOT. That is why it is so important to NOT agree to disagree. Either something is or it isn't; there is VERY little grey area. The problem is that people can not bring themselves to CHANGE what the "believe" because they have so much invested in it. It doesn't make the belief true simply because one believes it. Either what they believe in is TRUE or it is NOT true...it can't be both. So, the GOAL should be to find out which viewpoint/belief is true even if it means that you have to go to great lengths and painstaking steps to find out you were wrong. That is what happened to me, that is the ONLY way we will ever come together...IMO.

The answer to the question is PROBABLY NOT. That is why it is so important to NOT agree to disagree. Either something is or it isn't; there is VERY little grey area. The problem is that people can not bring themselves to CHANGE what they "believe" because they have so much invested in it. It doesn't make the belief true simply because one believes it. Either what they believe in is TRUE or it is NOT true...it can't be both. So, the GOAL should be to find out which viewpoint/belief is true even if it means that you have to go to great lengths and painstaking steps to find out you were wrong. That is what happened to me, that is the ONLY way we will ever come together...IMO.




A007,
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Well said A007, well said!

A007, thank you so very much for giving me something to seriously consider.
I have, for the most part of my life, believed ALL of those things. But you have given me something to rethink, as I never looked at them like this.

A007, thank you so very much for giving me something to seriously consider.
I have, for the most part of my life, believed ALL of those things. But you have given me something to rethink, as I never looked at them like this.


Kamau,

You are very welcome. That is the highest compliment one can get. Please let me know what you think after giving it consideration.

Since I am a current undergraduate college student, I can speak volumes on this, but I will be brief. In fact, I want to analyze it to make it better to understand what I am saying. I have been in college for going on 4 years, so I surely know what I am talking about! (Meaning I have been in college long enough to have graduated with a 4-year Degree)


Lie Number 2)

In order to aquire any measure of financial success, outside of sports or entertainment, in this country one must have a good FORMAL education, i.e. college degree.We have threads speaking on this. I am getting to the point where I feel as though...If you have something to say, just say it! Don't 'formalize' your speaking; come out and tell it like you should.

This is not what is taught in college. What is taught is you must do it in such a way that it will show people how much of a 'scholar' you are and how much of a 'professional' you can be. Then wonder why many of us young folk come home sounding as if we done lost our mind! Actually come to think of it, here in this country, there has been a new language developed on college campuses. I call it AmeriCollege-ish! :lol:

This is the second biggest CON fed to our children, and believed by us that the country has ever produced. Colleges exist for ONE reason....to make money like any other BUSINESS. We have bought into this for generations upon generations to where it is ingrained in us.College has become a true Business. It is also one of the primary reasons for me not attending Church anymore, but that's an entirely different conversation. To be honest, the only thing keeping me in these schools is the thought of being my mother's first child to go to college. My [older] brother likely will not receive that chance, and my younger brother will likely attend college, but he's on my father's side. I know how proud she would be, and as much as I can not stand these schools, I feel I would be doing it for her. Generally speaking, I am happier when she is happy; this would make her very happy. Then again, so would Self-Knowledge!

First let me say, that I have been to college, have enough hours for two degrees, but don't have one because I came to this conclusion about college while in college (i hope that made since).I am closer to being in this situation Obama is of being sworn in as President. It makes sense to me, and if we were to discuss it, our discussion would prove just how much sense it makes. Then again, I am almost getting a taste of my own medicine, because I did an essay a couple years back telling how important college is, and what college is all about. Wow - Knowledge of Self does not change somethings...it changes everything!

I do believe that college has its place. There are some professions such as doctor, engineer, etc. that will require college, by the way attorney is not one of them, but if you do your homework you will find that these 'high' paying professions on average make less than salespeople with no degree..i.e. real-estate agents, car salemen, etc. But I don't believe that formal education is the way out of our generational poverty. They do not teach us the things we need to know to get ahead but only the things we need to survive, i.e. get a job. (Just Over Broke).Exactly-
Not everything requires a college degree. I have come to understand that there are some things that require a college degree, especially the professional positions. A teacher, researcher, or engineer (like you said) must attend college. Many colleges and universities are now building labs all over their campuses, so that students can balance work in the classroom with work in the labs. But there is a problem with that - what about those of us who will not be taking up any lab-centered occupations? Not only that, but those of us who will be doing something that does not call for lab experience? All the more reason to consider what you want to do with your life before you enroll into college. There is great incentive for the College/University when students are 'Undecided;' that only means keep you around to take away another few thousand dollars from you, whether you pay it for the Government pays for it. With what I will be doing, I definitely do not need a college degree, although it would be nice to have one. In fact, to be honest, four years living on a college campus is all I really need to understand the impact of my career work. I spent 3 years of my college life operating out of Management-Administrative-level positions, learning everything I need to do it on my own. The work i did speaks for itself. If I did that in 3 years an an undergraduate, what do you think I could do today? It may not lead to much money, but I can promise you I will live one of the happiest lives!

We have to learn about the REAL value of money. It is not being consumers that make our money powerful but producers.Also, understand that consumption and spending can be identified as a mental illness when you think about it. In addition to learning about the value of money, we would need to work on breaking the addiction to spending and withdrawing that which could be used for a better purpose.

Schools do not teach us the most important things about money like how to balance a check book, how to invest, how to manage our money, how to manage our credit, how to become a producer, how to save, how NOT to spend, how to share, how to obtain it etc.It's funny that you mentioned that, because it touches on my follow-up point to opposing the traditional American Education structure. I learned much of the above in Vocational school. In such programs, you do not spend hours and hours learning a bunch of mess that will be useless to you as you live. You don't have to stay up all night depriving your Mind, Body and Soul of rest just to learn meaningless "stuff." In such programs, you can be your own teacher and student; it is just much more of a worthwhile experience. As far as learning to become producers, it's amazing what happens when a Government is not in control of how and what you learn to produce. There is a reason why most prefer to learn such things "on their own."

We are taught the basics to get a job, to work for somebody, and be controlled. They (employers) control our income. They control our schedule. They control our self-esteem. They control our stress and many many other things in our life. That is all formal education teaches us. We need to educate ourselves about those aspects of money and power. I mean over 70 percent of African-American adults do not own a library card!Nothing much for me to say here, except that I would have to follow-up on your statistic - What percentage of them have even stepped foot into a Library!?

What this thinking about formal education has caused is a low amount of hope and even lower amount of self-esteem in our communities for those who do not do well in the school system. So... they become like crabs in a barrell pulling many of those who are capable down with them because they want others to be in the same boat that they are in.Things like this happen when you become another $40,000 investment (a college tuition of $10,000 x 4 years of school) rather than an important part of the College Community.

The fact is that Oprah Winfrey, Madaam C.J. Walker, Bill Gates, Dave Thomas, Sam Walton, Henry Ford, Nelson Rockerfeller and countless others have become among the wealthiest in the world WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE! Henry Ford and Dave Thomas did not make it out of grade school. If we educate ourselves in the areas of business and entrepreneurship we can obtain some measure of financial stability in our communities and start to aquire some real equality in terms of access and opportunity.Sistah Destee did not go to college to learn how to create, run, and operate our Community. Listening to her is far better than listening to all 4 of my professors at this nationally ranked University! Malcolm X did not have a Bachelor's or Master's Degree in Behavior Science or History, but he sure knew how to deliver a lecture! The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey did not attend college to learn how to publish his own newspapers, deliver an effective speech, or build the U.N.I.A. All this to say - I try not to think about it, because it is the very thing that would drive me out of school! All of the people to date that I have the utmost respect for (which is not too many people) have one thing in common: No College Degree! (including Bro. Jeremiah Camara (http://twelvehp.com/), who is author of one of the greatest books i've ever read!)

Instead of focusing on the negative, I will focus on the positive. However, this is not what you may think it means. What I mean by this is I will focus on being my own educator rather than focusing on and why the western education system is not my best educator.

I rest on that.

KWABENA

Lie Number 1)

MONEY (or the love of money) IS THE ROOT TO ALL EVIL!!

We have believed this for so long that it is a regular part of our lives. And because we believe that lie (conscienously or not) many of our plights to be equal never focus on the one thing that would make us equal....MONEY!!

We have not limited our pursuit for money because of a desire to avoid evil. Our problem is more related to financial irresponsibility. There are plenty of people out there pursuing the all mighty dollar, but they are SPENDING that dollar on depreciating assets rather than INVESTING that dollar on appreciating assets. Our lack of wealth within our community has very little, if anything, to do with believing the Bible.

You would be hard pressed to show me an example of someone who would be wealthy if they would only stop believing the Bible. On the other hand, I could show you thousands of examples of someone who would be wealthy if they would only stop spending all of their money on 22" wheels, $150 sneakers, and cars that lose half their value as soon as they drive them off the lot.

Lie Number 2)
In order to aquire any measure of financial success, outside of sports or entertainment, in this country one must have a good FORMAL education, i.e. college degree.

The fact is that Oprah Winfrey, Madaam C.J. Walker, Bill Gates, Dave Thomas, Sam Walton, Henry Ford, Nelson Rockerfeller and countless others have become among the wealthiest in the world WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE! Henry Ford and Dave Thomas did not make it out of grade school. If we educate ourselves in the areas of business and entrepreneurship we can obtain some measure of financial stability in our communities and start to aquire some real equality in terms of access and opportunity.

I agree with the vast majority of what you have said in this point. However, I recommend education for a variety of reasons. I got education on an "as needed" basis. As I wanted to learn specific things I would go take a class on that particular subject. As an example, when I wanted to understand more about accounting principles, I took two accounting classes.

I firmly believe in the adage presented earlier by another poster "A students teach B students how to work for C students" or something to that effect. I am a B - C student, so I go both ways. I work for C students, but I also invest in Real Estate and other enterprises.


Lie Number 3)

The African-American battle for prosperity and equallity is a spiritual one.

I have the most to say about this but I will keep it short. Simply put.... we are fighting the wrong war in this regard. If our war is an economic one, how do we expect to win fighting spiritual battles. Its like we are in the wrong game. They are playing football and we are play tennis. We are just not equipped to fight them. We are in churchs, mosques, temples, etc. and they are in the board and senate rooms.

I understand and agree with the fight for morality and family values in our communities. However, that is not the battle we are losing. They are just as amoral and splintered as we are yet they have control of the money and thus all the power.
The "battle for prosperity and equality" is seperate and distinct from the "fight for morality and family values in our communities". We are, in fact, losing the fight for family values. You do realize we have a male role model problem, right? You do realize we have 70% of our children born OOW, right? "Family values" would reinforce principles of fatherhood and manhood that are often lost when a male child is
raised without the benefit of his father being RIGHT THERE, INVOLVED, on a DAY to DAY basis. Yes, make no mistake about it, unless we do something differently than we are doing now, we are losing this battle.

There is nothing about spirituality, Christianity, or the Bible that prevents an individual from making wise investments, avoiding wasting money on fads and depreciating assets, and pursuing wealth. Your assertion that it is a widely spread lie that the battle for prosperity and equality is a spiritual one suggest that someone is teaching that all one must do for prosperity and equality is "pray and have faith". No one that I know of is teaching such a thing. The bible certainly doesn't teach it. No one is teaching that Christians cannot be in the board room nor in politics. In fact, they are best suited for both.


The reason we a losing our youth to the media and entertainment powers that be are the financial rewards they see there. Even though most of us know that it is an illusion, THEY DO NOT. They believe it is real and lasting. And rather than fight the financial battle with financial education and weapons, we try to send our children to church. This is where they learn that the Love of money is the root to all evil. So because they really desire money, they equate themselves with being evil. This cycle stifiles their spirituality in such a way that we permanantly lose some of our youth.

This is far from truth. We are losing our youth to the media because we are losing the battle for family values. We need fathers in the homes instilling values in our children that teach them what is illusion and what is real. A child with a father in the home can listen to songs about popping a cap in his fellow brother and realize it is Just a song, an illusion...but those whose reality is based on the media think this is words to live by. (don't twist to mean Women cannot raise sons, many do a great job of it, but children NEED their biological Father and Mother for optimal balance.)

We are not losing our children to the media because "we try to send our children to church". We are losing our children to the media because our homes are not in tact, we are robbing our children of the balance that God gave to each and every child, the love and support of the biological parents that came together to create them.


I am not saying that spiritual gain is not important. In fact it is the most important because it is where true love comes from. However, one can not win the war of economics by fighting battles of spiritual warfare.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.



Even though the prior are MHO's this much is fact:

80 percent of all wealth in america is controlled by 20 percent of the population.

of the 20 percent that controls most of the wealth 99 percent is white

of the 20 percent 60 percent do not consider themselves sprititual people

65 percent of the wealthiest do not have college degrees

A LARGE percent of the 80 percent whom are not wealthy have never read a book about economics or finances outside of school.

I conclude with this question.

If they control all of the information that we take in.. i.e. (education), then wouldn't that allow them to control us?

You have made very fine and accurate observations, but IMO, have drawn inaccurate conclusions. You seem to have an opposition to religion, the Bible, and Christianity that is unfounded based on the reasons you have given.

Actually our socio-economic plight runs a lil deeper. In fact we are still living under the phantom of some of those laws that were made to keep us in place,,,,!

Q.Why? :qqb012:
A. Because they know who we are - we don't know who we are! :SuN019:

"Black Labor, White Powe" by Dr. Claud Anderson

Know Jesus - No Liberation
No Jesus - Know Liberation
Ase'