Hello Family,

Last night in the Pan-Africanism voice chat (http://www.destee.com/chat) discussion, it was suggested that one of the most empowering things we could do individually, and easily, to help push the struggle of unifying us around the world ... is to say we are African ... instead of African American, or American, or Colored, or Negro, or Black, or any other number of things we've probably referred to ourselves as.

It was mentioned that all other people connect themselves to a land, except us. Ask a Chinese person, "What are you?" and they will say, "Chinese." Ask an Italian, "What are you?" and they will say, "Italian." Ask a Japanese, "What are you?" and they will say, "Japanese." Ask an African American, "What are you?" and many of us will respond with "Black," or "African American" or "i'm Black, but i've got some Indian in me" but rarely does our response fully and completely embrace Africa, by saying, "I am African."

I'm guilty of this. Until recently, i would have said, "African American" or "Black." I've been becoming more aware of a lot of things as a result of this community and all the many Sisters and Brothers that share with me. But what was really the clincher, was the opportunity i had recently of chatting with a gentleman from China in voice chat (http://www.destee.com/chat). He spoke a little English, making it possible for us to discuss a few things. I asked him did he know that he was in an "African American" chat room. He said no, he had been surfing, searching and just stumbled on us. He then asked me if i was a Negro. I said, "No, i'm African, i'm Black." (I was trying to embrace Africa, but notice i still had to throw that color thing in there, Black). When i said that i was Black, he responded by typing into the room ... "i'm a yellow-skinned-man ... lol" ... gosh ... it was very eye opening. I really don't think he meant it to be offensive, and of course i didn't take it that way ... but he was laughing at me ... laughing at the idea that a people would refer to themselves as a color.

Anyway, let someone ask me "What are you?" in reference to my culture, and i will say that i am African.

I had to grow into this and i would imagine that many of my Sisters and Brothers here in the U.S., must also go through some process to take off the old and put on new.

So, my question is ... how difficult would it be for you to refer to yourself as simply, "African," vs. "African American?" Would you be willing to do this? Do you see how it could help unify Africans all over the world, if we made this small little change in our lives?

Looking forward to any discussion this may stimulate.

:heart:

Destee

Not difficult for me at all...without question I'm Afrikan!

African and PROUD!!!!. Thier is no A. American.dont you agree?

To speak honestly. I dont know how easy this will come for me because if I went to Africa how will my people address me?
Will they accept me as African or will they say I'm American. Will the fine line be drawn there too? Don't get me wrong, Yes, I consider myself of African decent but will my people embrace me Or will they cast me as different too? It's just a question that I pose.

In Answer To Destee's Question

You can all me negro, black, or african-american; but I am not African, or a Person of Color.

No, I do not think that "calling" myself an African will help or make it possible for Black people around the world Unite. We seemingly love to romanicize Africa and Africans, as some glorious and righteous entity that can somehow transform us to the place where we should be; a place that we "actually could be" if we did the things that we should be doing to be just that. Our window of opportunity is small but open, and sometimes I feel as if, God, must be scratching his head wondering when and if we will ever get it!

I think that to do so would betray my foremothers and forefathers who suffered the reality of being sold--self, life, and limb, for trinkets, sugar, and gun "powder," to finish killing off themselves (kinda prophetic in a perverse kind of way; a blood legacy seemingly passed down all the shores the tears of OUR PARENTS graced with
their stripped humaness, into nothingness.) It would betray their strength and conviction to survive, to love and to live.

To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. We, the black natives of this land give ourselves to all; including other "Blacks" who happily and willingly join hand in hand with our oppressors; yet, we are the ones that everyone comes to for help, for sustenance to get them through the treacherous waters of life, then after use, we are ridiculed and spit out... Our foreparents and God himself must be crying for us.

What I spew is only my feelings; I have no hatreds because I cannot hold it. I think that if some of you have found some empowerment in calling yourself African or anything else you may want to call yourself; God bless you, be happy. It is just that to keep going into a circle of trying to define self; without ever knowing self will always relegate us to the low rung of life. Maybe, I have become selfish, and if I am, I will accept that, and try to correct it; but What have they EVER DONE FOR ME, FOR YOU, FOR US? What except find satisfaction in joining hand in hand with those in helping to keep hurting us... a thousand year trial that has up until now not penetrated our armour... for now, our treachery is so evident that we have sold our very souls to one defined ideology or another, and allow ourselves to be used as todies and jiggaboos; spitting out limp-wristed emotionalism....

Trinkets, sugar and gun-powder; the Bling-Bling of yesteryear that enslaved my people... that still does ( aren't labels bling-bling?)

Originally posted by happy69

To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. [/B]

happy69, I don't understand your logic. Can you please clarify.....

"Just remember that you don't have to be what they want you to be." - Muhammad Ali

"There has never been another you. With no effort on your part you were born to be something very special and set apart. What you are going to do in appreciation of that gift is a decision only you can make." - Dan Zadra

There's no right or wrong in how a person perceives their self. It may seem trivial to some as to how some of us view the world and ourselves in it, but our consciousness has to start somewhere and in some, it matters a lot that we connect to a place of origin that conjures up more memories of who we are than memories of pain. Romantic notions? To some degree probably, but I don't think romantic at the risk of being ignorant of the politics involved in our slave experience. No, in fact, it might be the opposite.

What have THEY ever done for me and us? Well, I guess that would depend on how a person thinks who THEY are. What are WE doing for us? No group is perfect and neither are Africans. To be blind to this fact is to be ignorant at its most basic level.

What I see when I think of Africa and the more I learn about her is a NATION built with strong, proud, and intelligent who historically have come through a lot. I see a nation of greatness and extreme potential.

Thinking of the greatness of Africa and it's potential helps me to clear my head and let go of racist programming that I've been exposed to ALL my life and a victim of here in America. This is all that I know, unless I make a concerted effort to find out the truth. I wear the badge for me and for my ancestors who couldn't claim it because they would be beaten, raped and killed if they did.

If my ancestors were alive today, I wonder what their thoughts would be and how they would want to answer this question. Deep inside I'd like to think I already know the answer.

happy, to answer your question sis...I don't see labels as "bling-bling." It may not make sense but in our world today, people tend to identify with groups by labels. I see this as another example practiced by us and others around the world.

Just my opinion.

Peace!

M-Brown;
to me it is simple. To call myself an African is to betray my foremother and forefather. As an empathetic people, sure, they would have forgiven the treachery... I do believe that; but I also feel that they would have been hurt the rest of their very lives for the treachery of their own basically giving them away to suffer; for SUGAR,AND TRINKETS... it is logical to me, and that is all that matters.

Queen,
that is your right. I have no qualms with your rationale. But, just like we have both espoused in the past that we need to rethink who we fight for , and what we fight for, and let no fight get in the way of our progress... I feel the same about "Other" Blacks. Not that they shouldn't fight for the things that they want and are right and just--- do that, it may work! I think that we need to take a break... We are the ones who lobbied for them to even be here; we still lobby--- and I feel that the dissipating level of that lobbying is due in part to US waking up to the fact that sometimes Black ain't Black--- and that is okay, but we have to think about it... Hell, we even lobby for Hispanics!

The absolute last time I raised my voice against anything was the Anti-Apartheid movement; it was wrong, it was unjust... I still have my pins, and "act-so" letters, etc... until I began to think; how could it happen, how could a people in a place where they outnumber those in charge by 1000 to 1 be enslaved? I think that our reticence to join with anybody is a light into the fact that we are wakening up to some very real facts; we are willing to help anybody and we do; nobody helps us... not other blacks, not anyone.... it is just the truth... you tell me of anytime when others did (and I am not talking Marcus Garvey, different time, differing people); and I will give you times when we have helped them..... and all the lies/liars that they ally themselves with... against us.

Your question should be Why Are We Not Doing It Just For Us?
Happily, I would say, that we are beginning- and that is good--start.

When I think of Africa... I think of the cradle of civilization, that gave birth to a great people... who were light years ahead of the rest of the world... who cursed itself and it's people by being blinded by "Bling-Bling;" And I am not just talking about their children they sold to Whites---and burdened them with unflinching hatred that still swirls around us each and everyday... they have put that caste upon their own children with unbidding greed, and hatred...

Just because the way we all are may be comparable, does that mean that it is right. I was trying to paint the picture that our seeming affiliation for Bling-Bling may be hereditary?

i feel like i'm an alien...on a distant planet
not quite african and not quite american
what too do?
peace
khasm

I'm Khemitic

[QUOTE]Originally posted by happy69
You can all me negro, black, or african-american; but I am not African, or a Person of Color.[Qoute]

Response: You'd prefer to be called any of the terms above but you choose not to be referred to as an Afrikan. However, weren't the terms that you prefer(see above) imposed on us by another people. Even the term "person of color" is not an Afrikan self imposed term. From my understanding the Europeans engineered those terms and classify us as such.


[Qoute] No, I do not think that "calling" myself an African will help or make it possible for Black people around the world Unite. We seemingly love to romanicize Africa and Africans, as some glorious and righteous entity that can somehow transform us to the place where we should be; a place that we "actually could be" if we did the things that we should be doing to be just that. Our window of opportunity is small but open, and sometimes I feel as if, God, must be scratching his head wondering when and if we will ever get it![Quote]


Ok. no one ever claimed that Afrika is a land filled with all peace and comfort. Politically the continent doesn't seem to be in a good place right now. However have u asked yourself why? Maybe one of the reasons might be the constant and deliberate undermining which leads to the underdevelopment of the most resourceful continent on the planet and we all are familiar with what the sale of human flesh did to the continent. We can see its continuing effects right now.

[Quote]I think that to do so would betray my foremothers and forefathers who suffered the reality of being sold--self, life, and limb, for trinkets, sugar, and gun "powder," to finish killing off themselves (kinda prophetic in a perverse kind of way; a blood legacy seemingly passed down all the shores the tears of OUR PARENTS graced with
their stripped humaness, into nothingness.) It would betray their strength and conviction to survive, to love and to live.[Quote]

How is indentifying ourselves with our birthright betraying our foremothers and forefathers? Are you suggesting that our foremothers and forefathers who were able to survive the brutal shipment from the continent to a captured land renamed America somehow ceased from being Afrikan or better yet voluntarily decided to renounce Afrika and be American, Afrikan American? They weren't even thought of as being human as evidenced by their treatment by the Europeans. As John Henrik Clark stated no Afrikan Americans, Jamaicans, Brazilians, Trinidanians, Cubans ever came on those ships.

[Quote]To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. We, the black natives of this land give ourselves to all; including other "Blacks" who happily and willingly join hand in hand with our oppressors; yet, we are the ones that everyone comes to for help, for sustenance to get them through the treacherous waters of life, then after use, we are ridiculed and spit out... Our foreparents and God himself must be crying for us.[Quote]


Whose the abuser? Afrikans on the continent? Are you putting the full blame on those Afrikans for the situation of every single Black person worldwide. You say that you are an abused child meaning that you are a victim. However it seemed that you reserved the role of oppressor to the Afrikans on the continent. I have not once heard you mention where the Eurpeans fit in this scenario, and how the deranged quest for control and power by Europeans historicallly, has caused decay in the world today(white supremacy, racism), and has most likely caused you to view the situation as you view it.


[Quote]What I spew is only my feelings; I have no hatreds because I cannot hold it. I think that if some of you have found some empowerment in calling yourself African or anything else you may want to call yourself; God bless you, be happy. It is just that to keep going into a circle of trying to define self; without ever knowing self will always relegate us to the low rung of life. Maybe, I have become selfish, and if I am, I will accept that, and try to correct it; [Quote]

I wouldn't suggest that you have hatred but it appears that you have animosity for the Afrikans on the continent.

[Quote]but What have they EVER DONE FOR ME, FOR YOU, FOR US? What except find satisfaction in joining hand in hand with those in helping to keep hurting us... a thousand year trial that has up until now not penetrated our armour... for now, our treachery is so evident that we have sold our very souls to one defined ideology or another, and allow ourselves to be used as todies and jiggaboos; spitting out limp-wristed emotionalism....[Quote]


With every people there are going to be some who are traitors, some who are naieve and some who are selfish. Its not a big percentage but it does happen. Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that it was the Afrikans who sold all their people into slavery to the foreigners who were just innocently persuaded by the Afrikans to buy their people?


Summary: My "perception" of your comments is that it seems that you feel the need to further divide Afrikan people in America(commonly referred to as African American) from Afrikans on the continent. I'm not sure how you feel about Afrikans in the Carribbean and other parts of the world, maybe its in the same way that you view Afrikans in America, but I'm not sure. Well as we all know division has been the greatest tool that has fostered our confusion.

I am NEITHER!!!!!!!!! I am an AMERICAN of AFRICAN DESENT!

Living in NYC I have had the chance to meet many africans from all over the contenent and they will tell you plain and simple if you are not from the motherland you are Not African and that they are the African Americans

M-Brown:
Of course I was not suggesting that it was all of the African's fault; they are as much to blame in my own mind, as Whites... I don't have to divide anything...as I have stated and know is the truth--We have never been together! As far as African-American, it is just a political term, and even those in on the coining of the phrase, explain that as a term incorporating our dual heritages....

Yes, I probably do have a bias... we Blacks native to this land cannot continue to self-destruct.... I have been close with Africans in the past, I still have very close ties with some Carribbeans... and I still feel the same. Again, I ask you where have I gone wrong on this. How can we continue to utilize what power it is that we have to help others and let our own dreams continue to fall to the waste-side? Those other Blacks that I know feel the same; in fact it was some of them who got me asking questions, reading and understanding...

I am not against them, why should I be, I don't hate Whites, so why should I hate them... to me though, I think what is worse... and yes they do have biases and come here with stupid bias just like everyone else, just like immigrants of every stripe... so you say that I am to affiliate myself and what energies that I have trying to appease them? I think not; I will not waste any time on that... that is something that people have to come to mutually and I could careless if it ever happens... just as I wouldn't waste one ounce of breath on White racism... it is a wasteful use of brain and energy....

I am not saying that America shouldn't help them either-- Yes they should it is only fair; but is it not a rationale argument made when billions have been given and nothing but corruption takes place? Isn't it only fair to question how could so-called leaders and their friends take those funds and come to America, and open businesses (and this is not just Africans either!)????

You are correct, much of the problems faced in Africa is because of what others have done to control and destroy it... of course that is the truth... but again, as I stated before... to BUY, someone have to SELL.... SLAVERY, THE PURGING OF AFRICA, DRUGS IN OUR COMMUNITIES. BLACK DEMOCRATS, BLACK REPUBLICANS, ETC...

No Native Black American is naive. We are born knowing. We may have to lie, pretend, put on rosy colored glasses, shuck and jive, or fight--- to survive, but we can never say that we don't know.... we can never say that we don't know... and M-Brown, I respect you feelings, and whatever you want to do... I still feel that the only thing that we have to do is progress, and from one sister to you... More power to you.

african.

what kind of uneducated "oof" do you take me for? lol

African-American. My family roots probably left Africa more than 100 years ago. That makes me more American than African. I agree with Happy69. African-Americans try to make themselves seem more important than others. We always talk about the man bull****ting us. But, we are our own seeds of bull****. I'm talking about the stuff we say like "We come from queens and kings". I got news for you so, does everyone else. Sure whites bought us here in chains, but, you need to wake up and realise your fellow Africans helped em. It was a way of getting rid of your enemies. There is still slavery in Africa today. Besides, Africans are coming to America on their own now.


And to XXPanthaXX, you are bias. Everything you post is negative. even stating your from Klan Mountain Georgia. If you don't like prejuiduice whites, that's cool. But, to be equally biased about them makes you no better. You also, show that your biased towards Africans in this post. Who are you with besides you? I am not fooled by you. That's why you attacked my joke. you see everything in Black and white. Brother, like my poem says. Spare me the conspiracy, your conspiring against yourself.

I said nothing about African-Americans trying to make themselves seem more important than others. I am merely talking about labels... Your assessment underlines your agenda, do not include me in this. I merely speak to us focusing our energies on us, only for awhile.... and "X" is correct, why bring whatever happened on another thread here?

We have a right and duty not to agree on everything; we have to, it too is an integral part of us doing the business that we have to do as a people. Just because my stance on something is different than theirs, it does not mean that I feel that they are any less my brother or sister.... however, they too, have to judge me, and that is their right too.

I conclude I am not African; but African is a part of my heritage, no matter how I feel about the people, my blood runs from them; I like most native Blacks have White blood that is running in my veins too, and I would never call myself White either.

Everyone has a right to consider and call themselves whatever they want; as long as they are in the struggle and want us to get to where we belong, they can call themselves "Grape Ape," for all I care.

OOh OOh please, me, me.
Go head Destee wit yow bad self.
I could cry.

Dont ya know, i've been on another
Forum that i regularly post at (Its really my home,lets sees how yall do fa me here)
and the topic that has been going on for two
weeks is this one.
I guess its in the air,i could talk ya 2 def
about this one but ima keep it short.(If i can)
A few things
As we have no control over or any affiliation or never have had with any president or
Authoritive power in the USA we must limit
our attachment, for there will come
a time as did come a time in Sodom when we
will be given the means to leave.
(you's aint got no passport do you's).

When a man and nation so drunk on
power ignores all wisdom that the natives
shares and continues to perpetuate a self
destructive wave across the land as a
STRATEGY,
it can only come to one thing.
Do not let ideals become your motivation.
America is less than 600 years old and has
ran before it crawled,
EMPIRES take centuries to build.
The problem lies in our
short sitedness due to our quantitative life span.
There is an art to building an empire and
rules to life

QUICK IS SHORT LIVED!

WISDOM

In effect what im saying is
for black people
PATRIOTISM is Idealism and
America is getting more desperate
seeking what she has consumed
too quickly in foreign lands.
(You get me?)

Africa has EVERYTHING needed to
sustain the world.

WHY NOT KEEP HOLD OF YOUR GIFT?

If that aint the whole riddle to slavery
then I dont know.

Incidentaly

WHOLE LIE WOOD.. sorry Hollywood
Points towards NewYork like
it has an Agenda to
throw all the lost souls
in for a final bite of







THE APPLE.




As dead pres said
How can you be the Master and the Slave
at the same time.









*

@Earl

YOU SAID
"Sure whites bought us here in chains, but, you need to wake up and realise your fellow Africans helped em. It was a way of getting rid of your enemies. There is still slavery in Africa today. Besides, Africans are coming to America on their own now."

Aint that story a little tired,in effect what your stating has already seperated yowself from being an African.

Listen to your thoughts bru.

Let me clear up this cliche saying.

Slavery occured amongst
US A f r i c a n s
(thats /us/ not U.S.)
many years before
White slavery (different thing)

SHOO, i'd a had slaves too.
Slaves were the compassionate option from
God to deal with the negative of the village.
If a man rapes, say, your daughter or wife,
you have the option to put him to death
or enslave him,he becomes your permanent
employee (for free) all you gotta do is feed
shelter and clothe him, thats it.


NOW
What a surprise to see them being
branded,
raped, starved and killed.
Who ya thinks capable of such hatred?

THEY reinvented the whole thing.

OKAY
now thats cleared up.

"NOBODY EVER SAY THAT OLD TIRED
STATEMENT AGAIN."

We need to get off this Af Am pride
cos there aint nothing to be proud of
slipping further away from our culture.
Look what we're becomin.

@FORUM

Let me ask you what do you know about
Africa, as it makes up half your name?
then ask yourself the same about America
and what contribution do you
give to America
As opposed to AFRICA?

This ends the debate

Nah ma black Peoples,
Yowl American
not African American, AMERICAN American.
That was the trick in the first place.
No man can be two things (Ya get confused end up doing lowly things
in the name of one side, contradicting the other as we've seen)
Its like being bisexual it dont work,thats a sexual title for
A FREAK.

IM AN AFRICAN and I dont need
an AFRICANS APPROVAL TO KNOW IT!

I FEEL IT IN MA SOUL.


As Lot said to his Adorable wife

"YA COMIN OR STAYIN?"

Stayin?

"AIIGHT PEEEEAACE"











*

I disown American because "Black people" had to fight to be american and we are still not as equal as "americans r supposed to be. No one else add american to who they are so why should I?If I could have been born and raised in Afrika I would hav preferred it. America is where I live Physically but Afrika is in my heart, my spirit and my history. Nothing about america is apart of my history accept for slavery and though I acknowledge it The his story from that is even a lie. So why accpet I'm american when America is a lie.

most def a african living in america
not a african american nor a black man nor a man of color
forth i bleed as u and u RED
my peoples gave me a chance to be what i am now i stand
and say i am what i am ........a african man of strong roots.

AMEN

Poeticsoulsister!

A LUU YOU GEERL!

@FORUM

Learn from the sister!








*

I read most of the posts and I'm happy with some disappointed with others. I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American. My history varies. I have some family here long before the slave trade (despite what many may think Blacks were circling the world before Columbus' butt). I have some family members brought over here in boats in the early 1600's and others with roots in no other place but here. Any way. I will never deny whether or not I'm African. That's a beautiful thing. Despite how Africans may feel:

UPTOWNE"S POST ABOUT AFRICAN PEOPLE HE'S ENCOUNTERED:

Living in NYC I have had the chance to meet many africans from all over the contenent and they will tell you plain and simple if you are not from the motherland you are Not African and that they are the African Americans

Not a Problem, but do I walk around telling folks they aren't American because they weren't born here. What kind of double standard sh** is that? I wasn't born in African, so I'm not African? In that case..there sure are a lot of Americans that SHOULDN"T BE HERE?

I'm not a fan of labels. I'm no Christian, but I'm God fearing. I'm of African Descent and very proud of that ....because I am FROM KINGS AND QUEENS appointed by the most high. Despite what someone said earlier that every one is from Royalty....That's B.S. baby.

My role as an "American." What is American anyway? What history do we have outside of Bloodshed and tall buidings and football. None really. American history is Africa...Africans carried this place on it's back....gave America a monkey boost and now what ever we have left will be sold on E-Bay....

We are not here to stay......I'm God's Child originating from the RICH (not poor) soils of Africa. Here in America testing my strength.

I rumbled on that one, but any questions just ask. I'm sure I confused somebody. In summary. I'm African, understanding America and why I'm here. I hold no flags of any nation. I'm Royal T.

@Royal T
Dyou say?
"I hold no flags of any nation. I'm Royal T."

So then whas that symbol beside yo name?

@Forum
you gonna hate me for this but

AFRICAN & AMERICAN
Should have never been a combined word.
They VIOLENTLY CONFLICT.
This is the very thing that has scrambled our
ethics.
(More hatred to me)
Blacks in America are the most morally displaced in the whole of the black world
because they attached to the name American.
everyone else have been quite clear
that they are privelaged foreigners.
And the curse continues.
Bush is the embodiment of the American attitude. Is that what you are?
Homeboy FINALLY went to Africa.
In his sheltered plane helicopter seperate food
and the rest.
IGNORANCE.
My advice is go and see.

(not you Royal T,your probably still in
American dream mode,it'll wear off)

Ever met a mixed raced person who dont
know they BLACK? They loyal to neither
and become CONFUSED and HYPOCRITICAL.

Ever hung with a bisexual person?
same thing, its not that you cant be many
things just not two that oppose.
OK its here now and we use it to identify
our background but dont be fooled into
believing you American.
`next question is What is an American?
I notice its normally the Immigrants who
buy into it, MAYBE cos GETTING a GREENCARD is so hard
is like goin to boot camp.
THE **** IS DRILLED IN.

(This aint meant to be a dis)

Na Bru/Sis/homey/curz
Y'aint American
Your a permanent resident,made to feel
comfortable (Alice tumbling down
the rabbit hole)
in a RACIST REALITY.

(The Matrix if you like)


@Royal T
Please get off that sept 11th
stuff.It was an American who
masterminded it.

Patriotism 'll get
you nowhere!

The Day SUPERMAN
IS A SMASH @ THE BOX OFFICE
and hes black (not BLACKSUPERMAN)
just Superman

That day we'll all be AMERICAN.
and Marcus Garvey can say (from his tomb)
**** i was wrong!
till then get in line with Amadou,Rodney
and the rest.


AGAIN
HOW CAN YOU BE THE MASTER.
AND THE SLAVE AT THE SAME TIME?

Dead Prez




It aint hard to tell.

:kiss:



















*

OH MY GOD!
Dreams can come true!
:jawdrop:

Who could of wished for a better timed statement.

Just to force my point

This is the statement one of our regular racists posted on my home site Yesterday.
"003 - 02:50 am:

"I spent some time in the U.S. Navy and went to several oversea ports with a few worthless black sailors, when the white whores axed these negros what they were, they proudly said "American" when we got back to the ship they became "'african' Americans" again."


Well there you have it!

make ya mind up time.

see what happens when you stand for truth?

God is great!
:bowdown:

I see you misunderstood me, but I set myself up for that one. The Avatar next to my name is just that. An Avatar of Africa (the only one I could get to work by the way-didn't want the pic of the black woman flippin pancakes). Like I said in the beginning of my post. I'm African (a misnomer my the way) living in America. Above all I'm God's Child.

Indeed, I know September 11 was masterminded by one of America's own in order for us to fall for this dumb ***** war. So, I hate to tell you I was never on the Sept. 11 crap. My point was, everyone was crying "I'm an American" when the towers came down. I wasn't. I was crying "God help us fools. We've been askin' for it."

Unfortunately, there may not be a proper way to put my "label" in words, but I know Africa runs through me and America is trying to rob me from it. But what the heck is new. Any more questions Hesaid. We're doing fine.... :)

ok, I just re-read your post again....I missed something. You wrote:

(not you Royal T,your probably still in
American dream mode,it'll wear off)


I'm laughing at you now. ME ON American Dream mode. ME??? What part of my initial post stated that I was an American dreamer. I have Africa tatooed on my back with a Black woman attached to it holding up "THE FIST." White folks point at it in disgust and call it un-patriotic. I know my first post was a little confusing. I was writing off emotion, but I guess you didn't catch it all. Let me help you.


I'm not a fan of labels. I'm no Christian, but I'm God fearing. I'm of African Descent and very proud of that ....because I am FROM KINGS AND QUEENS appointed by the most high. Despite what someone said earlier that every one is from Royalty....That's B.S. baby.

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN.

My role as an "American." What is American anyway? What history do we have outside of Bloodshed and tall buidings and football. None really. American history is Africa...Africans carried this place on it's back....gave America a monkey boost and now what ever we have left will be sold on E-Bay....

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN....???

We are not here to stay......I'm God's Child originating from the RICH (not poor) soils of Africa. Here in America testing my strength.

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN?????

OR AM I MISUNDERSTANDING YOU......


ALL IN RESPECT BY THE WAY/NO BASHING OR HATING GOING ON. THIS IS THE WAY IT'S DONE.


by the way...you were one of the people I agreed with, how could you possible pull American Patriotism out of what i said? I'm lost. Help me please (EVERYBODY, not just directed at hesaid).

OKAY bru i stereo typed you!
This topic has just been goin
around too long an if we cant even
agree we African then how can we go
forward?
I was gonna apologise after your first reply
then OH SHIIT

Ya hat ta go back!
(Like jimmy castor)

Me
I got NO
patience.

Im the kinda person
who will always check to see if we've
lost the point.


If you look deep into
the way someone writes you can tell theyre
life story
all kinds of insecurities and stuff poor
out. Can you believe some people post
just to show off their Jewels (Knowledge.)
well ima Rob em and give it to the
needy.Half the time their debates become a personal show of who knows best defeating
the whole purpose of the site but they get
lost in it they no longer see.
I just hope
when we post,we are aware that we're
looking for solutions and not an Arguement.

We Argue enough.

On my regular site we're just building the infrastructure of a new world, economy an all.

Sorry bru
It aint you
The sep 11 thing got the old emotions
flowin.

Peace bru






*

Feels like your post went from you understood me back to not understanding me. So, now i'm extremely confused. First off, I made sure that I said no disrespect, no arguing. I'm just clarifying my statement because I was babbling my first time around. Secondly, Bruh, I'm a sista in this struggle. Check the photos in the family joint. Didn't I say a few times I"M AFRICAN (a misnomer) living in America testing my strength....am i missing something????? Somebody help me.....where ya at Destee fam. Am I messing up here...if so i have no problem fixing my errors, if that's what you mean. Clarify for me please.

THANKS!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Royal_T ... i'm with you Sister ... i'm not sure what Hesaid said ...
but perhaps if we act like we understood ... he'll let it go ...

:heart:

Destee

Originally posted by Baba Ahmed
NNQueen listen (regardless that some belittle those of us who quote other's words; I choose to use the words & thoughts who r demonstrably proven scholar/warriors. I b still learn'n and stumblin.) It's from AFRICAN POWER, by Asa Hilliard III, Ed.D; pg 4:

"...This lack of unity is in direct rejection of indigenous African principles which promote a strong sense of community.

"There's no need to struggle to change the minds of those who make a personal choice to function as an individual and not as a member of an ethnic family; with the obligations that family membership entails. But we do need to b clear about who chooses to be in the family and who prefers to be an individual or just 'happens to be Black.' Understanding this distinction will clarify the kinds of expectations or challenges which might be posed by certain people. It will help us to know who will be an advocate for African liberation versus who will be an opportunistic individual."
__________________________________________________ ___

To me a key phrase is, those who make a personal choice...

Anyway if I wanted to get real funky, I'd take it to the absolute: The African Woman is THE MOTHER OF HUMANKIND! Raised from the soil of Mama Afrika! Ya know? but I avoid do n that, unless in the arena of fat mouf'n.

To copy a 18 yr young brutha: dis heah is chess; not checkers!


Medase

Peace Baba,

Very poignant quotes by Asa Hilliard. What name we answer to tells a lot about who we are and the principles we believe in. People with like- minds and like-goals tend to gravitate toward each other. I agree that we need to be clear about who is among us and the criteria for becoming a member of a "family" has to be based on more things other than just being Black.

Aaahhh, Baba, you ask whether I know that my ancestors are here and if I hear them? I wish that I could say with absolute certainty that this is true, but I'm still "young" in my awakening process and learning how to listen with a deeper knowledge, a heightened awareness, and a keener sense of who I am. It's not easy Baba, when you've spent most of your life being conditioned, manipulated, oppressed, and taught not to know the "real" you. It's like taking a bath after a very long time, and as you scrub, you begin to shed layers of dead and useless skin away, only to discover a healthier, more rejuvenated layer that lay underneath hidden by all the grit and grime that built up from being unclean.

Being here can be like taking a bath, Baba. I have to thank Destee for providing the water and people like you for providing the soap and scrub brush.

Peace.

Destee...True maybe. But I'm like a Cosby kid...don't like to go to bed mad or not understanding something. Keeps the stress down. LOL :)


Baba Ahmed...nothing is confusing about what he said in general. I'm confused about his response to me that's all. I actually dig his initial comment.

Royal_T ... k Sister, i was on my way to bed when i posted, not feeling the best, but wanted to give you some love. I didn't understand Hesaid's comments about folks life stories, insecurities, and jewels being obvious based on posts in a fourm ... but there are many, more wise and more blessed than i ... and not all things are meant for me to understand ... so i was willing to accept that this was one of them. i understand your desire to figure it all out if you can, and i encourage you to do that ... just wanted to let you know that you hadn't messed anything up, and as great as this tool is, it's often easy to misunderstand someone ... at least for me it is.

All is well Sister :love:

Thanks everyone for responding to this thread.

:heart:

Destee

Destee....so true. It's very hard to read something the way a person intended and that's why I'm working so hard to figure it out. Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it alot coming from you.

****
go away for 1 day an
look at the mess! :(

No destee i wont let it go
I wanna be clear on this.
Peace an thanks Baba Ahmed
Royal T
Two confusions
I was apologising for my reply
to your statement,
you said:

(speaking real slowly,lips all animated like talking to a china man)

"I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American."

Now,I know how the press can change ya words around, but
there aint no paparazzo in heere,
that statement sounded very
much like a proud African living in America,
had you have said "I FEEL I AM an African living in America I would have overstood your predicament. NOW,
you said
"I understood my role as an American,"
I aint even going to ask what that meant
(maybe destee knows):kiss:
(no offence but i feel like im...never mind)
I hope in future you will try a little harder to
communicate with the one who you have
a problem overstanding directly because in all honesty your invitation to criticism meant I almost had to take it up with everyone else you involved (thats very ignant, **** an i was tryna apologise).
Anyway I do tend to give many
dimensions in my posts so I apologise for giving you more than
you bargained for but generally aint women
meant to do that multilogue thing?

Anything else?

Much love Fam.









*

I LOVE YALL....THAT'S ALL. I just wanted some clarification. Don't know if I'm beefing here, not being understood, or what. I almost feel insulted (don't know why), but I give up. Not even sure what we're discussing anymore..... aint women meant to do that multilogue thing? Huh? Ok, I said I quit...I love yall....I really do, but I don't know what's going on. I'll bow down and sit this one out!!! I'm a team player!!!


p.s. (JUST WANNA GET THIS TOGETHER...SORRY DESTEE)

HESAID:
[QUOTE]
(speaking real slowly,lips all animated like talking to a china man)

I hope in future you will try a little harder to
communicate with the one who you have
a problem overstanding directly because in all honesty your invitation to criticism meant I almost had to take it up with everyone else you involved (thats very ignant, **** an i was tryna apologise). [QUOTE] "

OK....I CAUGHT THAT PART AND I ACCEPT YOUR APOLOGY WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD YOU FAMILY THAT'S ALL. REALLY THAT'S ALL. THERE WERE NO INVITES TO CRITIICIZE. NONE. I FEEL IF I READ SOMETHING WRONG OF YOURS (IN ANY WAY), I'LL MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND NO MATTER WHAT. I GET IT NOW....SORRY AND THANKS. PEACE LUV.

HE SAID:
[QUOTE]no offence but i feel like im...never mind) [QUOTE]

I know you didn't finish, but none taken. :)



"I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American."

My role as an American means....this is a greedy country. I know I'm in this social darwinistic society to get all and keep all, but I plan on getting and giving it back to my people in soooo many different ways. Nothing special on my part. I'm just in a position to do so.......that's all. :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

Baba Ahmed:
[QUOTE]See Royal_T that's experience flowing thru to us. And I'd guess some b n a Mama also. Notice how she darts all over pat'n this one on the head, rub'n the next one's back, lightly kiss'n another, stroking encouraging and even when challenging does it so that rarely do we read a lame brain rear'n up and bark'n at her or call'n her a whatever. I wonder sometimes does a person realize that her challenges when appreciated are stimulants to maybe re-think what's pushed out. 'Cause she knows once words ease or burst out there's really no call'em back. In her very quiet way she demonstrates humility w/o using the word itself! I dig her.

So diggit Royal_T while she comforts u, she also drops wise words into your eyes/soul. Yet u continue to beef; let me say sumpin: leave people's intentions alone. In cyland u can not see their actions [QUOTE]

I UNDERSTAND FULLY.....I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU! AND AMEN!!!:) :) :D :D :D :D :D

S'all gooood!

Now le me go peep ya melon
in the picture section!
BRU!

(Its Okay is a joke!)
:D
much love.

Im an "Original Man". I don't have a problem being called "Black" because being "Black" is natural! Black People are the Original people of this planet, the Mothers and Fathers of humanity. "Black" is the essence of Life!

Afrika is the first part of the Earth where life has sprang from, the cradle of civilization.

I rep being Afrikan with pride, for it is a title that describes the Original people.

I would have to say that I am an American of African decent also.

If we are talking about what others call us.....Why is it that we do not hear that current Africans do not call us African...they call us American.

When a child is born in Missouri and moves to California at the age of 2 and someone asks where he/she is from they will say California 99 percent of the time. He or she may qualify the statement by saying that I have people from Missouri at the end of the statement.

So I choose to say that I am American because my family has been here for 280 years and along with other slaves built this country. If you had built the house you currently live in...would you call the apartment you were born in home but no longer have family there home?

It has always been the white mans goal to make us feel like we don't belong here. But we built it (especially the south) with our blood, sweat, tears, and hearts, how can we not belong? And guess what...if you ask someone for modern day Kenya if we in the states are African, they will laugh when they give an infatic NO! LOL...if we traveled over there and were asked what are we and with a distinctive accent(to them) said we were African do you not think they would laugh us out of the country?

So if whites say we don't belong here, and Africans say we don't belong there then the question is Where do WE have the RIGHT to call home? IMHO it would be where my family has resided for almost 300 years and spent their lifetime trying to making it better for me. Wouldn't that stand to reason?

As someone pointed out...Some of us were slaves in African too....and were traded to Europeans for bull. They did not just invade and take us. They were invited by Africans!!!!

Are my ancestors from African..yes. But after almost 300 years of being here I would say that makes me American...and aparently so says those in Africa today.

I don't think we can stereotype Africans as not claiming us (American born folk). I know many Africans that have told me I was African without me asking their opinion. I also had an Ethiopian man some years ago tell me "Jesus was Black like you, he had hair like you and all before the Johnny come latelys showed up." That one took me by surprise because I was ringing him up at work and had never seen him before in my life. He just looked me in the face with concern and felt the need to let me know that. It was cool and I think African born people do love us, but some of them may not know how. Just a thought.

wow ! how did i miss this one?

so, f a pregnant cat crawls n2 a warm (but not too warm) oven on a cool day, & gives birth, whatcha gonna call em, biskits?

:laugh: :laugh:

well, i kno this is not the poetry thread, but since i hv nvr posted a poem at destee b4, i ask u destee 2 pls overlook this & hope its not a violation of the rules or anything. i wrote this over 6 yrs ago when i was feeling esp afrocentric (yes, it waxes & wanes at times) & it really fits the topic ? to a t. u'll find my answer 2 ur ? at the end.




how can i make u understand?
luv 4 an unknown motherland
how real to me these yearnings seem,
a place where we can live our dream

how can connection really b,
4 this place so far from me
who think not n terms of i but we
will it bring out the best n me?
can its power change my destiny?

something I realized long ago
it's not an option i have 2 go
this pilgrimage will help me grow
relight my burned out inner glow
2 many secrets i must know,
so many debts 2 her we owe

vast beyond imaginings
contrasts starvation & diamond rings
i ve thought it could b paradise
her quiet beauty does so entice
i seek her counsel & advice,
am i willing thou 2 pay the price

telebroadcast scenes of famine & drought
inapparent causes r not thought about
impoverishment unencumbered throughout
suffering & death 4 europes clout

profiteers 4 unjust gain
heap on my homeland endless pain
they aren t concerned w/repercussions,
f it's not 4 profit there r no discussions

no matter how long & hard she screams & hollers,
they see afrika n terms of dollars

her mineral wealth must all be taken
irrespective of health & lives 4saken
a portion of me must still reside,
events there can instill such pride

i know that we r still connected
b/c my core is so affected
by news of risks the continent is taking,
or triumphant progress my families making

some identify w clothes or cars
they still don t know quite who they r
but 3 piece suits or burlap bags,
both will decay & become rags


don t focus on my outerwear,
thru verse i lay my soul out bare
they say don t make waves, go w the flow
they ll be sucked down w/the undertow

others may flock to france or greece,
europe can t make my longings cease

portrayed as natural disasters & plague,
but the tragedies r oft man made
w/a spirit hardship cannot defeat
w/an almost feminine mystique

a treasure trove garden retreat
w/every pleasure ur heart may seek
yet thousands die even as we speak
from far more than not enough to eat

isolation keeps her dependent & weak,
boundary lines she must delete
prospects 4 uniting r far 2 bleak,
separated, she simply can t compete

the poverty, squalor, death & sorrow
juxtapose w/the grandeur of killamanjaro
never will she attain whats best
aping greediness of the west

the solution to the racial fights
is brotherly luv, not civil rights
earth's greatest need is 4 advancement
n the science of luving others enhancement

w/diamonds oil gold & bauxite
few can match her mineral might
no land can match her vast potential
no where else has been so influential
my respect 4 her is reverential,
the whole globe was once so deferential
she must c europes role as wholly non-essential
& its culture, properly, inconsequential

until we re there we can never be home,
our ignorance led us 2 disown
this land of which the least is known,
n untapped potential she stands all alone
where lifes 1st fruits 2 the world were shown

physically huge but not full-grown,
r solid future seeds now being sown?

work toward the goal of being pan,
ignore the borders from europes klan
we wrote the bible & the koran,
we must unite while we still can

could journey 2 a distant shore
strengthen me & make me more ?
will i feel that i ve been there b4 ?
such contemplation's about whats n store

rich colored fabrics tribal dress,
warmth of an afrikan caress
varied dialects, melodic tones,
familial kinship so often shown
mysteries that will remain unknown,
the pride we share talking of home

no matter how i dress or where i stand,
my luv & longings 4 the motherland
intertwined by choice, design & plan,
so as long as i b black & b a man
from inside out i m AFRICAN



again, gr8 ? & i ve enjoyed & identified w soooo many of the replys 2 it. destee 4 president! :toast:

I cant speak for everyone but
I think that was pretty appropriate
bit long but appropriate.

Doc Parker !!!! :toast: that was beautiful !!!!! :love:

Thank you for sharing ... got me over here smiling and smiling ... wow ... what a wonderful way to present your poetry ... you got some more?? ... oohhh what's going to be nice ... is to hear you speak this peace on the mic ... yess yess yess ... we gotta figure out why you can't get in ... can hardly wait to hear you speak this peace ... as i read it, i felt you speaking it ... but i wanna actually hear you ... www.*************/chat ... it's gotta happen ... :wink: ... thank you for sharing Doc Parker!

:heart:

Destee

Hi people,
I'm a continental African, so I don't know if my views are
welcome or not, but I'll say what ima say. I have read several of
the views in this thread, and here I'll attempt to address some
of the views expressed. ( It's gonna be a bit long )

It's not up to continental Africans to tell black/African Americans
who they are. Identity should be a process of self definition and
not labels given by other people. So it shouldn't matter what
continental Africans think. If you feel African, and call yourself
African then I guess you are. Pay no attention to anyone who
tells you different. On the flipside if you don't feel African, and
don't call yourself African I guess you're not. QED.

A brother asked how Africans will receive him, if he went on a
visit. I tell ya, some people will look at you and see only $dollar$
signs (it happens ). Some might see you as a their ticket to
getting a visa to come to the USA. Other people on the other
hand will be genuinely pleased to see you. They will put you up
at no expense, take you around the historical sights, markets,
nightclubs etc. Even the villages to see the traditional rulers. At
the end of it, they'll send you off with some mementoes. Any of
you who visits the continent should be prepared to take the good
tha bad and the ugly all in your stride !!! Continental Africans in
the USA have also had to put up with similar attitudes I gather.

I live in the UK, and when I first got here in the 1990s, Africans
were dished out a lot of disrespect by the local Black British and
Afro-Carribean folk. Young and old dissed us because of our
accents, mocked our names/surnames and some even made
monkey sounds whenever they heard us speak our language !!!
My old landlady Jamaican landlady at the time told me she would
not allow me to have any friends in the house, because Africans
were loud, uncouth and shouted a lot when speaking their
language. I told her that Carribeans shouted a lot too, when
speaking Patois and other Carribean creole languages. She later
back-pedalled after that. Some have complained to me that
Africans call them slaves, my reply was that any African who
called them slave, must have first been called a bushman by the
Carribean folks. They used to call us 'African boubou'. Some of
them dissed Africans for not speaking the Carribean dialect, or
for not being able to 'chat black' - the black British version of
Ebonics/AAVE.

There were so many other things but I do not want to go into
that, cos things have changed a bit over the years and there is
no sense going over old ground. In any case lot of Black-Brits
and Afro-Carribeans still have anti-African prejudice, but it is not
so blatant nowadays.


To be fair, there were, and still are, some very decent,
well mannered and polite Black-Brits and African-Carribeans
who do/did not treat Africans disrespectfully, kudos and
big up to them. Also there were/still are some very ignorant and
disrespectful Africans, so maybe its a case of "he who is without
sin, cast the first stone".


I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time ?
In closing I would like to make a few more statements and ask
a few questions.
I know their is a lot of spite and hatred towards us because of
slavery and the current state of Afric, from the diaspora Africans.
However, I would say that a lot of continental Africans
wouldn't have very deep feelings of black brotherhood with
diaspora Africans who demean, despise, ridicule and belittle us
continental Africans. You can't disrespect and persecute us on
the one hand, then call for black people to stick together, and us
to join hands with you on the other. ( I have heard of some of
the experiences of fellow continental Africans now living in the
USA, some of their experiences are similar to the UK based fellow
Africans ) .

So my African/black American brethren, what is it you want from
continental Africans:
i) Living in the USA ?
ii) in Africa ?


Lady Destee, pls feel free to move my question onto another
thread if this one is inappropriate. Thanx.

Regards

Hi people,
I'm a continental African, so I don't know if my views are
welcome or not, but I'll say what ima say...

We're thankful you did...it was needed...a different perspective. I appreciated it. Thank you.

Thank you araegba
you have made your points very clear...with much respect.
Peace

Revolutionary Greetings Pan-African Organizers,

We hope everyone is in good revolutionary spirits and practices. The summer months are really moving along. We just wanted to add a few words.

As sure as Africa is our parent, is as sure as we are the children of Africa and NATURALLY we are AFRICAN PERIOD!!! The best way that we can qualify our identity is three pronged.

Firstly, we have a shared history as a (whole) people like no other; and everywhere you go you will find us in the same disorganized and politically devastated conditions.

Secondly, we are socially the same. That is we interact with ourselves basically the same even if one Africa speaks Ayitian Kreole or West African Wolofo or English or Spanish. In addition, we overwhelmingly are spiritual or religious and believe in God, Chi, Yembe or whatever!

Thirdly, we are fully packaging a Mandinga supply of melanin. We in fact physically look basically the same and everyone of us got a cousin, sister, or brother in Africa and somebody will tell you, you know there is an African in my village in Chad who looks like you and who acts like you. WOW!!

These are just facts. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. When the African ran from the ******* he couldn't hide among other folk. Even the Mulatto was under scrunity.

And well, if we don't know we are African period and one people period the police sure in HELL knows. Don't they?

And don't be confused by the name Africa. Yeah it could be name after Tom, ****, Harry, Mary, Christine or Jane, but all the other names don't exist but in our minds and the world does not recognize them. Africa is on the map baby! And if you want Akebuland, then naturally you gotta free AFRICA NOW!

Is that right? Well All-Africans we gotta burn out. PEEEACE!

Originally posted by araegba


So my African/black American brethren, what is it you want from
continental Africans:
i) Living in the USA ?
ii) in Africa ?




To answer both questions. I want us all to come together as the Afrikan family we are. I want Afrikans in the USA and the Motherland to put this foolish sterotypical views behind us and embrace each other. When ever Continental Afrikans come to the U.S, I want us U.S blacks to except them with open arms and vise versa when U.S Blacks come to Afrika.

This may be off the subject a bit, but I want us U.S Blacks to stop crying about how Afrikans helpped sold us into slavery. We are all the victims of oppression by one common enemy(White Supremacy). U.S-Afrikans are suffering from mental slavery while Continental-Afrikans are suffering from mental colonialization. We are all in this together and we are FAMILY.

I was shocked when I read some of these responses. I would think people at this site would know better but I see the divide and conquor plan has really done a successful job.

Welcome to our forums! :wave:

It was a pleasure to read your post because so often we discuss the differences between continental Africans and African Americans in terms of how we feel toward each other. I'm glad that you felt comfortable enough to share your perspective as a continental African. I found what you wrote to be very interesting and it made me think a lot about your questions at the end.

I don't know that I want anything FROM Africans living in the USA or in Africa. More than anything right now, I think it's more important for me to work on me. To acknowledge the truth about my own identity, continue learning to love who I am and where I originally came from and to work hard to destroy the pathological conditions in society that are destroying us internally and externally.

Once I get my head right and my thoughts become clear, then I think I will be able to share this knowledge with others to help them experience the same "freedom."

I hope you continue to post here araegba. You're more than welcome to be here with us and I appreciate your openess.

Peace. :)

I would love to believe that by identifying myself as African I could in some way empower people of African descent around the world. However, since I am a child birthed in America, of varying ethnicities, would I be righteous if I did so? Would I not in turn be denying my Native American grandmother? It would be so much easier, I suppose, if one could view oneself as 'pure'. Purity notwithstanding, I am the product of all of my ancestors - no matter their skin color, or their ethnicity. Could I exist had they not been who they were? I have tried in my daily life to embrace those aspects of my heritage that are appealing to me, and the others I ignore.

African peoples, by this I mean people I have met who have migrated to the US from the African continent, have yet to begin to view themselves by a single identity. We have mistaken labels with true unity. What unity is there in labeling ourselves African when a Zambian, a Nigerian, and a South African still consider themselves different? They don't refer to themselves as African, they designate the country of their birth. Is this good? Is it right? Is it even relevant?

When people begin to take the larger view, we are all citizens of the same planet, maybe then we can see some progress. Maybe then there can be some resolution to the racial issues surrounding people of African descent. It is easy enough to take the verbal/easy ruote and say we are making a difference. But to truly make a difference we need to be more involved. We can never govern the way in which we are viewed by others, but if we change the way we view ourselves, others will be forced to change their views.

Mainly, I think that the idea of labeling ourselves African rather than African American, is an illusion . We need only to read a little history to realize that though Africa may be viewed as some great Mecca for people of color, and though she is the cradle of humanity, civilization, and knowledge; she and her peoples are not blameless. We have committed genocide, patricide, self hatred, enslavement in our own right. Our African foreparents often chose to accept the influence and ideas of the eurocaucasian immigrant. They chose to ignore their birthright for more obvious and immediate pleasure. Even now, there are many who would rather accept the eurocaucasian image of beauty, art, and intellect.

I would rather not have the need to wear a label - I am the culmination of many years of selective breeding - I am me. Sufficient. To identify myself as a color is ridiculous to me. But to identify myself as only one part of my racial heritage is equally ludicrous.

After arriving in Africa Tanzania and getting over the similarity of the market place to the carribean I was put up for one
night by (not a hotel but) the CABBIE who took me from the Airport(SHELTERED).That evening his wife cooked food for me(MAINTAINED) and we watched a video(ENTERTAINED) next day he went to work & left me in his house sleeping while he went to work(TRUSTED).
I watched this bull trying to hump a cow for the
rest of the day till he came home and drove me
to the sleeper train.(CHAUFFERED)Which he went to buy my ticket for.
He asked me for NADA in return but i gave him
a little money and exchanged email.
After that show of human
spirit which we have clearly lost,
I dont dare or care to politic.

Me im AFRICAN.

I'm keepin my opinions short...I'm African-American, If I went over there, I would be called an American.. Africans don't see Americans in the same light as they do other Africans...We're from a different culture, we grew up differently....I don't care how many dishiki's you put on, How big you fluff your fro'. If you were born in America, you are an American. An AFRICAN-American...Most African's can't look past the America part.......

And I'll visit this site tomorrow and probably get murdered for my opinions. but I don't care :)

SwtT..I won't murder you...you my peoples!! LOL but a lot of Africans DO see us as African...we shouldn't stereotype ... I know a load of Africans that would share their world with you in a second and want to know you inside and out. It's lack of education on both our parts...considering we go through the same crap everyday on two different continents. Is that a coincidence?

After giving this some thought I have come up with a few questions...

Are we seeking to be Identyfied by the color of our skin? Because when we call ourselves African doesn't that include (white) Africans?
Every person on this earth has their origins in Africa. So are we to call all people Africans? If not, what are the determining factors? As far as I can tell on this fourm, it seems to be skin color. If that is the case then shouldn't we distinguish ourselves from the other races of Africa by calling ourselves black or something else?

As for me...I can't wait to go to Africa and maybe someday call it home...but for now I am left with the cliche "home is where the heart is" and for me now it is here with my people who struggle every day.

Good questions A007 but those whites aren't indignous to Afrika. If you're refering to the dutch or boors of south Afrika, they're really Europeans who has been living in Afrika for a period of time.
As for the North Afrikans, those are really Arabs. There's a difference between an indignous and non-indignous Afrikan.

Just like here in Amerikkka, we're not American, we never were American. The true Americans are the indignous natives. We're Just Afrikans or Europeans who has been here over a period of time.

i consider myself black...i have no problem with the african struggle, but right now my priority/loyalty is to the struggle of blacks in america....besides if you let labels stick then you are a conformist and will allow almost anything....can't do it!!!!

@Baba Ahmed
Thanks bru that story depicts the same thing
its like Africa can teach us some of the things weve lost but we got to overstand that soon because they are fast becoming car jackers & Robbers from the cable influence. My point being
if we are gonna use the term African American
we must recognise we have a responsibility
because African Brothers are watching and
copying us.

One love bru we glad we agrre on this
important matter.
:toast: <-- (thats coconut water)

Hi folks I'm back again,
I'll try answering all your points in here.

Someone asked about the separation into nationalities and
ethnicities on the continent. Everyone knows, different Euro
colonisers divied up the continet into respective colonies for
their own financial gain. Africans led by people like the late
great Kwame Nkrumah and Julius Nyerere wanted an African
super-state since the 1950s/1960s, however not all Africans
were in agreement. The current Africans Union may be seen as a
partial fulfilment of that dream, however the leader of Libya
colonel Ghaddafi seems to see Africa as an extension of Arabia.
He wants a single African state, with the capital in Tripoli, Libya's
capital, and Arabic as the official language. I don't believe this is
in Africa's interest to have an Arab emperor.

And despite our ethnical and national differences, we do still see
each other as Africans, but Africans with different flavours !!!
There is no single standard flavour of Africanness, every ethnic
and national group brings there own flavour to the table of
Africanity. So there is nothing wrong with those differences as
long as they are handled with maturity, respect and understandin
g.

As an individual I feel deeply embarrassed by the slavery, then
colonisation and now neo-colonisation. However, that does not
mean I should now go around kissing the backsides of diaspora
Africans. It will never happen, take note Baba Ahmed who has
accused me of dishonesty !!! If diasporan Africans want the
continentals to pay reparations to them, I suggest they take it
up with the African Union. Set up organisations, let your hiphop
and reggae artists sing about it, till you drive it home to folks
back on the continent.

Baba Ahmed, what I said about diasporan Africans hating
continentals is true. I have heard and talked to a lot of
Carribean and black brits who have said they HATE us
Africans for slavery among other things. As for the harrassment I
talked about, I would say a large majority of Africans who arrived
in the UK during the 1990s experienced. For those who arrived
in the 1980s, it was worse for them than for us later arrivals.
When we arrived, we found most Africans would pretend to be
Carribeans as this was socially acceptable. British raised African
kids were raised as either Carribeans or straight up black-brits.
Nowadays (in London at any rate ), this hostility seems to have
calmed down a bit, or gone underground.

I would not like that to happen to my kids if I stay here. I would
prefer to raise mine as Africans who happen to be residing in the
UK. I live in a predominantly black neighbourhood myself, with my
neighbours being Black-British, Carribeans as well as continental
Africans in roughly equal numbers. This kind of arrangement will
enable each community to have their unique identity while relati-
ing to one other. ( All these communities go to the same clubs,
churches, restaurants, work together etc, as well as interacting
with other racial communities, so it's not so bad anymore ).
I have also only ever dated blacks (Africans, Caribs Black-Brits).
I can not vouch for other Africans, or Africans living in America,
but that has been my own preference.

Baba Ahmed, it seems you will like to have the power to dictate
us where we should live or who we should date as continental
Africans. It is as if continentals should be like little brothers to
you playing big brother. I do not believe continental Africans
should live under African-American/diasporan-African supervision.

I believe that continentals should not live in your shadow.
They do not require your permission/approval in the way they
choose to live their lives. Africans in the USA have a right to live
where ever they please. They should not become zombies being
directed by their Afram brethren in the name of reconciliation for
slavery. Unity does not mean one group should act as a
policeman over the lives of other groups. Unity, is forging an
alliance based on common interests and purposes as far as
I am concerned.

Baba you accused me of dishonesty in your response, I would
say I found your your response downright rude and insultive.
However, thanx for your honesty. One more question Baba, why
do you want continental Africans to live in African-American
neighbourhoods ? Date African-American women ? It may look
like a silly question, but I want you to articulate why you take
offence at Africans over these things.

Regards to everyone who has read and/or responded.

Originally posted by Pharaoh Jah
As for the North Afrikans, those are really Arabs. There's a difference between an indignous and non-indignous Afrikan.


I'm having difficulty understanding this view. Are you then advocating that only African peoples with darker skin tones should be allowed to consider themselves African? How does this relate to Americans of African descent? Are those of us who are lighter skinned not to be identified as African? On the larger scale aren't all of us, regardless of shade considered the same? People who are inclined to call a dark skinned sister ****** will use the same word to refer to a lighter skinned sister.

he: ur right, it is a bit lengthy, but then, whats the proper length 4 a poem? i ve had my eye on a couple of lines that cld b deleted w/o losing much.

destee: u so sweet! :spin: givin out props lik candy. :luv: much appreciated tho. yes, actually i hv quite a bit, but i sometimes feel like poetry gets lost here (mo offense). its a gr8 poetry site, but the volume is sometimes overwhelming. & then, as has been pointed out, there is the ? of length. when i write, i don't really think about length. since i 'm not overly concerned about publication, i write till i feel i've said what i wanted 2 say. i sense that u got the messege of this piece loud & clear, & even f i don't get n2 voice chat, there may b another way 4 u 2 hear it sometime. :shades: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

baba: it has been my pleasure 2 read & lrn from many of ur posts. imho, u bring the wisdom of the griot 2 the house.:teach: :teach: 'preciate the props. oh, destee 4 prez of whateva she wants 2b prez of

araegba: hi & welcome.:wave: enjoyed reading ur post. b lik me, don't worry 'bout length, no 1 'round here is payin by the page:lol:

'It's not up to continental Africans to tell black/African Americans
who they are. Identity should be a process of self definition and
not labels given by other people. So it shouldn't matter what
continental Africans think. If you feel African, and call yourself
African then I guess you are. Pay no attention to anyone who
tells you different. On the flipside if you don't feel African, and
don't call yourself African I guess you're not. '


my sentiments precisely & well said. since when do we let other ppl define us? looklin 4ward 2 reading more from u.

Doc Parker ... you're right, our poetry forum is so very active, post a peace one minute and it's on the back page before you blink ... but i'd keep posting to yours, moving it back to the top ... and don't let the question of length dissuade you ... long or short really makes no difference, so long as the quality is there ... and you have demonstrated that :) ... i did see your post to the other conversation we're having and am continuing to look into that for us, and i love doing it, so please don't feel you're a burden or any such thing as that ... but gosh, now you got me sorta kinda hope'n you won't be able to get into chat ... :wink: ... just kidding, i do want you with us ... i'll post to that other thread as soon as i know something else we need to try.

:heart:

Destee

I'd like to Welcome all the new Family Members that have posted in this thread ...

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Kuumba chi nia :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Pharaoh Jah :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Blaquebutterfli :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Cypher :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Araegba :wave:

Thank you all for joining in and making yourselves right at home. Brother Araegba, you mentioned that you may not be welcome here or something to that regard ... please please please ... nothing could be further from the truth ... you are most very welcome and if anyone makes you feel not welcome, please let me know !!! I thank you for the information regarding African Languages and i look forward to hearing your accent in voice chat soon ... www.destee.com/chat ... for that matter, i look forward to hearing all of you in voice chat soon. Brother Araegba, i want to invite you to teach us an African Language in voice chat, but you are so new here and i don't want to put you to work before you even have a chance to get comfortable, so i'll wait a few more days :wink: We have such a great opportunity to come together, dispel myths, build together, and make a difference in our own lives and those of Sisters and Brothers we don't even know ... we are blessed that our paths have crossed here. Please know that you are at home.

:heart:

Destee

Originally posted by blaquebutterfli

I'm having difficulty understanding this view. Are you then advocating that only African peoples with darker skin tones should be allowed to consider themselves African? How does this relate to Americans of African descent? Are those of us who are lighter skinned not to be identified as African? On the larger scale aren't all of us, regardless of shade considered the same? People who are inclined to call a dark skinned sister ****** will use the same word to refer to a lighter skinned sister.



What Im trying to say is that many North Afrikans have no "Afrikan Blood" what so ever. Those are the same people who came and slaughter the indignous Afrikans of the land. Afrikan Americans are indignous Afrikans because we carry the Afrikan genes, which is dominent making every other gene recessive. Afrikans come in many colors but many of those North Afrikans are really Arabs who has been occupying the land for centuries. THOSE ARABS ARE NOT LIGHTSKIN AFRIKANS!. If you feel that way than you probably have no problem with them taking credit for building Kemet when in fact it was Blacks who were responsible for that great civilization.

Oh come now, facts are facts, please do not insult my intelligence or intellect. Any informed person is aware that Blacks are responsible for the building of Kemet. My question was not in refernce to Arabs but to persons of African descent who are of lighter pigmentation.

Yes a lightskin person is still an indignous Afrikan because they carry the trait, the genes which is the most dominent, they probably lack pigmentation due to inter-mixing but every other gene is recessive to Black genes. They still carry Africoid charateristics such as kinky hair, brown eyes, thick lips, broad nose or any other Africoid features.

Is that it?

Yes, Pharoah Jah...and I might add:

If the European slave traders had been successful in their attempts to enslave the Indian, there would have been no need for them to have gone to Africa for slaves. The Indian chose death rather than slavery, forcing the European to go to Africa for slaves. This resulted in the creation of a new race: the light-skinned African-American man and the light-skinned African-American woman.

("All things work for the good in God's kingdom.")

There are three beautiful shades of Blackness: (1) the light-skinned brothers andsisters, (2) the brown-skinned brothers and sisters, and (3) the dark-skinned brothers and sisters. Here is an interesting analogy...

These three beautiful shades of Blackness relate to the water in a well. For example:

The light-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water at the top of the well; the brown-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water in the middle; and the dark-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water at the bottom of the well. It is all water, which means we're all the same. The water at the bottom - represented by the dark-skinned brothers and sisters - is the water that went in first!

The light-skinned brothers and sisters are the surface of a dark, deep well, as the late, great Curtis Mayfield so eloquently put it...

Aqil I agree with everything you said but aren't one of the reasons the indians weren't slaves was because their immune systems wasn't build for the work we did?

xPeter wrote: Having been on the African Continent much of the last year I can tell you how we were received. Weather in Egypt, Ethiopia, Senegal, or Ghana. Togo, Gambia, or Benin the Black African People considered us brother or sister. The elder would ask "what has taken you so long to come home". Welcome home is what we here even from the Arabs in Egypt. When in southern Egypt were they look llike a Harlem or South Central they point to their skin and say "Nubian...Nubian". I never received as much welcoming from a Black African people as I do when I am in West Africa. Thgey aree so much more healthy physically and mentally than the average African-American. Especially physically.

I am a "Black African-American. A slave descendant. When they ask us overseas if I am from Europe or Jaimaica I say we are Black Africans from America. PT Botha daughter could come to the US and be considered a African American. Black is a distinction. Not to just refer with skin color along but also the mindset and whats in the heart. We define what "BLACK" is not someone else. We know based on our experience and relationship in the world with others.

Black in the english language is an "adjective". There is no "black land". A person's name should reflect land, history, and culture. We are not origins of north or south America. Biological and phenotypically we are African. But a person has a right to disclaim polictically their heritage in place for another.

Hotep

Well said....Isanusu

Baba Ahmen:

I know of the neighborhood ["The Prison Gate" community of Black Palestinians?] there along the Crescent strip in Israel. Black Africans are called "Cushee ... Cushee" instead of the "N word" as we have come to hear it in some places around the world.
There is no land mass called "Black Land" There is a Italy for Italians, and a Spain for Spainards but no "Black Land" on the map where I Black African Children can identify.

[But a person has a right to disclaim polictically their heritage in place for another.] Many People of African descent claim they are just "HUMAN" or just "AMERICAN" I for one will not spend time arguing with them no more when one say they were born "Chirstain" or "Jew" or they are just "American"

Yes you do not give energy calling on ancestors and you are using make shift names. That is one reason why nothing nevers happens. "True to our God.. True to our native land" as in Lift every voice. What was the pronounciation of "Our God" "Our land". When you call on the wrong god nothing happens. When you call on the spirtits of an Ancestor and it is not the correct name, nothing happens. Sort of like entering the wrong pin number.

I see more opportunities for Black African-Americans in Africa. There you have true affirmative action. While in Ethiopia in Asum we were going to breakfast at a restaurant early in the morning. When we came to the entrance, we seen that a group of whites were seated inside. The owner ask us to wait a minute and went in and ordered the whites out side to be seated and told us happily to come on in. It was cool that morning, the whites were looking pake but they accepted the situation. They knew they were not in their land. We have experienced similiar circumstances in airports in Togo. It is your land and you make your people comfortable first. I also stand aside for the women of these countries to go first and the elderly.

The ability to return and visit or live back in the land of your ancestors is a issue of reparations. All Black People should have the opportunity to experience what I have. I am moving back.

Hotep

You speak truth to power, Isanusu...al hamdu-l-'lah.

Re: the topic of this thread:

The name “African-American” is our final and official appellation. Final because the name truthfully defines both who and what we are: Black people born in America of African descent...

The truth of the matter is this: Most Caucasians dislike referring to us as African-Americans, because in doing so they are simultaneously acknowledging the fact that we have defined ourselves...after 400 years of their definitions, such as: “negroes,” “negras,” “negress,” “********,” and “colored people.”

Now some people say that there is only one race – the human race. And this is a true statement. But even though all human beings are members of the human race, all members of the human race are not the same. We need only to look at nature for a perfect example of this statement. You see, every eagle is a bird, but every bird is not an eagle. Similarly, every white man is a human being, but every human being is not a white man!

This planet is inhabited by almost six billion human beings – the human race. And five distinct classifications make up the Earth’s family, namely (1) the black race (Africans, African-Americans, and people the world over of African descent, e.g., Jamaicans, Haitians, Bahamians, Trinidadians, etc.), (2) the brown race (Arabs, Asian Indians, Iranians, Pakistanis, and most Hispanics, i.e., Spaniards, Portuguese, Mexicans and Latinos), (3) the red race (Native Americans, North American Indians, i.e., the Eskimos, and South American Indians), (4) the yellow race (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Filipinos), and (5) the white race, or Caucasians – people of European descent...

(There is also a group of people known as the Jews, who are a hybrid or mixed people, and therefore cannot be classified as a race.)

Black is a color, true, but the word also defines a race of people. The same can be said for brown, red, yellow and white. When I say that I am an African-American, I am saying at the same time that I am a Black man born in America of African descent. It is just that simple...

So, to put it correctly, we in this country who are the descendants of African and African-American slaves are African-American members of the Black race. It is indeed a most honorable appellation...

Peace brother Aquil, indeed as a name
African American can be accurate as a description, but as history has it the American part of the title has indeed tarnished the African part and I am quite certain Our transgression continues due to this contribution by lower demon psychological
manipulators to our once pure name, i accept your description as it is necessary but cultures are best preserved when left pure.
As with all things the psychology of belonging (as William lynch well knew) deteriorates with
coupling words as does with the word bisexual and of those trying to play the middle role of black and white with mixed race,a certain confusion almost consistantly develops.
To add, our African brothers (as i have seen with my own eyes have (because of the African in our name) developed a car jacking, pimping,homosexual and getting high culture to our extended families detriment. I dont say this because i want to be right i just want us to be aware that this is really a
description and should have never been a title.

As ive quoted time again:

"How can we be the slave and the master at the same time?":confused:

Dead Prez
On being African Americans.



Salamalaikum bru.









*

I am Alkebulantaazar the Afrakan queen from Khamit, via Trinidad

I would like to add my opinion to the discussion.

Contemplating your post, I remember thinking in my teens 'I'm not African, I am Black. I have never been to Africa and I don't know anyone who is.'

I was still in highschool at the time. To designate myself as an 'African-American' was segregationist. Why section myself off from the rest of 'America'? They didn't call themselves 'white-Americans' or European Americans. They still don't.

Now, Africa is much more significant to me. But above even this is Oneness. But not just Black Oneness or American Oneness or African Oneness, but Human Oneness.

I no longer look at the surface structure of the people I meet, or don't meet, as the case may be. In my eyes they are all One: Human.

So I am not Black, African, American or any combination of the three. I am a Male Human, Earthling. Potentially the first of many.

My opinion, of course.

xPeter wrote: Slaves and dogs are named by their masters...only free men name themselves. (John Henri Clarke) . White supremacy does not recognise the part Indian in me, nor that I may be Muslim or Christain. They look at me as a ******. Always did and always will. If you were a citizen why do you need civil rights. If you were a human to them why declare at WCAR "a crime against humanity" what was and still is happening to you. A persons name should reflect land, history, or culture. Me I am a Black African born in the United states ...America. Black African-American. Former slaves, slave descendant. That what we are. May not like it but it is the truth. The course of events that led to us being here on the whole was either directly or in part associated with that - slavery. I am very proud to be a Black African, very much so.

Hotep

I personally consider myself african american or black. Technically we are not really black. We are a variety of colors. Where did that come from in the first place? I love my complexion which is reddish brown baby!

Enigma, The very first people on Earth were literally black. There's people in Africa who are midnight dark. Care to elaborate on how we're mixed with different colors?

What I mean we are mixed is that we range from extremely light to extremely dark. Depending on our heritage. We have alot different nationalities with in us. I feel we should embrace every aspect of ourselves.

xPeter wrote: When traveling on the continient and coming back to the US, you imediately notice the difference in the two people. The so called Black Woman does not have anything on her counter part on the continient especially those Senegal, Congo, Kenyan, Togo. Hallie Berry would be a laughing stock in Senegal. On Goree Island every two out of three is a Serena Williams. This is common place but not looked at in the same conotation. It is considered beauty period. After being there for a long period and coming here to the states and seeing the behavior and lack of culture I can agree and respect those who say "I am not a African". Probably the reason blanket citizenship is not offered to all.

Hotep

Here is a good book for those who are struggling with the issue. Recomended by Asa Hillard.

Hotep

http://www.geocities.com/afrikandieli/MarimbaAni

Enigma the way I see it. Genetically my Afrikan or blackness is the dominent gene. It has been scientifically proven that "black" genes are dominent while "white" genes are recessive. Light or Dark, we still carry a certain amount of melinin that white people lack. If a white parent produces a seed with a black perent. The child is black since the black parent's genes are dominent. So of course Im going to embrace my African roots to the fullest however I do embrace my Native American side also. As for that 1% of European blood in my vains....never that... My great great grandmother dating back to slavery was raped by her master. My European side enslaved my Afrikan parents and stole this land from my Native American relatives. Sure I have to accept the fact that I have a European branch on my family tree but I don't have to embrace it.

Does anyone mind if I ask a question? Of course it's rhetorical, but I'll keep it short: Why even ask this question?

What purpose does it serve? To further segregate the already segregated? This subject came up on a carribean board and was almost as long as this one but what started the thread was an 'I-theopian' who was venting his anger at African Americans and their 'arrogance'.

It was surprising to me that, in their eyes, we African-Americans are 'different' from them. Black but not, 'really' African or Jamaican as such. And here, we ourselves have no real idea how to refer to ourselves. I personally thought the term 'black' was universal to everyone darker than 'white'. It was truly a disappointing revelation.

And this further disappoints in light of it. Not because it is a bad question to ask, but because the question must be asked at all.
But this is merely my observation, and it will be left at that.

xPeter wrote: Thanks to the N'trs

Here are two web sites which display the National Security Council Memorandum 46 and on what and who is "Black". No one is arguing with them of thgeir definition on "who is Black, who is African. Jimmy Carter the president who blacks adored was at the helm when this came down the pipe. Bill Clinton the who feel good Blacks consider the first "black president" was at the helm when the prison population began to swell to were 1.2 million out of 1.9 population is black. In esence the word does not have any thing to do with the shade of the complexion. There are Brown Blacks, Red Blacks, White Blacks and Blue Blacks. South Africans PT Botha and DeKlirk children could come to the US and be labeled a African American. But they can not be labeled "Black African-Americans", a slave descendant residing in the territory of the US. I have heard the Africans from he continient such as the Ethiopian, get involved in foolish arguments on skin shade due to mis education. Skin color is not only a major issue here in the US, but thoise who have traveled abroad will find out it is also in other white dominant countries. France, Russia, Germany, Brazil, Britain, Australia, Italy, North India, Israel, Palestine, and many others. And it will always be a major factor here in the US were the socalled black man and woman is at the bottom of every indicator of life. Does this mean give up, hell no. But Know thou self. Define thouself, and do for thou selve (s).

Hotep

http://www.finalcall.com/MEMORANDUM-46.htm

http://www.lists.kabissa.org/lists/archives/public/zimciv-list/msg00000.html

I've been reading this thread with interest, ever since it started.
But, I know that what xPeter said about the caste system in all these places are true for at least Latin America, where I have done some travel. To me it is worse than our good ol' boy Racism that we live and thrive within. I have only heard about it in Africa.
And the way it is in those places and the way people are literally treated (taking about L. Am) I would run to America, black as night, and cry that I am White too; Another reason I love being African-American.... or you can just call me Black-
I still, however, cannot see where our "coalitioning" with others who may or may not be "Black" have to do with our survival... until Black/African-American/Negros decide to coalition with each other none of that matters...
North Africans are considered white because they are Arabs...
I don't know what India Indians are considered... but there is no way I will even consider people who are basically darker than most of us--- White; but again, understood...They have the most poverty in the world (literally) and the worse Caste System.

Why are we still here? If you say that you are my brother or sister and you have no ill will towards my survival---what should it matter.

I'm with Smokey Robinson..."I love being called Black"

I am frail yet humane
Human, till the end
Spiritual in nature
Condescending man-

1poetsought ~

"What Im trying to say is that many North Afrikans have no "Afrikan Blood" what so ever"

everyone on the face of the earth has african blood, being that the entire human race decended from africa.... another thing, the first africans were reddish brown skinned, at least this is what i heard....The pygmies were reddish-brown, they soon spread out to the rest of africa and turned black in color, brown, even light brown, etc. so, BLACK african people can range in skin tone even without being "mixed".

If we go by "who has african blood," then whites could claim being african as well, that is if they wanted to.

I choose to call myself black.:)

We are a universal people, the original people. We have no beginning and we have no end. We are usually conceptualizing our perceptions, of who we are, to fit conditions and causalities. As I have said before, even TIME is a concept and historically names come and go. When did we first start calling ourselves African? Think about it? We need to be called what we know and perceive about ourselves RIGHT NOW, without excluding our spiritual, cultural or historical ancestry. What really counts is that, which is behind a name. Names are only symbols that direct you to something GREATER THAN THE NAME ITSELF! SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY EXIST!

First of all, a racial identifier or name is a Caucasian anthropological paradigm. Secondly, a reference to color becomes only a determiner, when someone shows up, usually extremely different from what you have seen (i.e. white folks). The oldest and broadest perspective is, that Africa is a continent in a sea of continents, in an ocean of worlds, in a universe of galaxies.

Remember, most people in the world have a name for their selves and a name they are called by others. Look into the history of most cultures and you will see this. Example, India was originally called Bharata, by the original inhabitants (Africoid people) and had no nationalistic boundaries.

How far are the borders of Africa, really? When does one place end and another begins. If Ivan Van Sertima is correct, in his book, THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS, we were here in the so-called Americas, when Europeans thought the earth was flat and when they weren’t even dreaming about America!

WE WERE PROBABLY ALL OVER THE WORLD BEFORE THE CAUCASOID COULD EVEN PERCEIVE HIMSELF, LET ALONE NAME HIS SELF!!

So, call your selves many things, for everything in the universe has many names.

LETS STOP BEING SO REACTIONARY, FOR WE WERE THE ONES WHO NAMED ALL THINGS AND INVENTED THE CONCEPTS OF SIGNS, SYMBOLS AND WORDS!!

Choose one or ALL of the below:

Black
Brown
Original Homo sapiens
Alkebu-lanian
Khemitic
African
African American
African Hebrew
African Asiatic
Nubian
Man
God
Or something else.

Lets refer to and expand on the teachers, of old, insights:

WHEN YOU SEE ME, YOU SEE GOD. WHEN YOU SEE GOD, YOU SEE ME. AND IF GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING, IS HE REALLY DEFINABLE.

MAYBE?
MAYBE, NOT.


Peace, love and Ashe,

Sun ship

P.S. - That's right!! I forgot to vote.

Here's my vote: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND NONE OF THE ABOVE. AND MORE.

Thank you, no matter what name we give ourselves...Tne fact will always remain that we're the original people. Africoids are universal!

100% AGreed!

I consider myself African and to one of the earlier posts it is true, north africans have little to no black blood, though some africans have their white blood i.e. hausas have some iberian in them.

Welcome Oba. Make yourself at home and enjoy your experience here. :)

Peace!

hmmmmm...I've finally arrived to the end of these posts,& I must say that TOO MANY OF US DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OURSTORY,because you are too focused on European history.....only Sekhemu,Isanusu,cypher,xPeter,happy69,Pharaoh Jah,& Lktpolit were seriously RAZORSHARP with their definitions of who we are,which is Khemetic,which means of the land of BLACKS,& Nubian....alright,Sunship,even though you went buckwild with some of your answers{with African attached to it} I still give you credit for mentioning that which NOONE ELSE has yet,which is [[[Alkebulanian]]],derived from Alkebulan, which is today FALSELY CALLED AFRICA. KMT,or Khemet{today FALSELY CALLED EGYPT} is the SOURCE OF GREATNESS OF ALL HUMANITY....this is where EVERYBODY within & outside of our Mother continent came in order to learn about SCIENCE,MATHEMATICS,ART,ARCHITECTURE,ASTROLOGY,TRU E RELIGION,MUMMIFICATON,etc....I WASN'T AROUND BACK IN OUR GENESIS,so I don't know what we called one another,however,I GO AS FAR BACK AS OUR HISTORY TAKES US TO DEFINE WHO WE ARE,so basically, it's all about RESEARCH: DO THE KNOWLEDGE TO OUR PAST,{by that of NUBIAN KNOWLEDGE,from Nubian scholars,not TRICKNOWLEDGY,aka Euro-knowledge,from European scholars}because without that our future shall remain VAGUE,Nubians....Even if you do define yourself within English terminologies,use something that the palebeast CANNOT label HIMSELF within the realms of the obvious....only words I can think of which fits us BEST on that scale is BLACK,BROWN,EBONY,& MELANIN DOMINANT. Remember,to study is not just for yourself, but for OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. What am I ? I AM KHEMETIC,or B.A.T.U.{Black As The Universe}




~Brown is my physical,Blackness is my ESSENCE~
By Sho Love da POETIC***

This is becoming a bit of a quiz show.
SOULDEEP 3
With all that said and done
REALLY!
Which of these names do you
feel the majority of our people are
FAMILIAR with? is this not selfishness,
to assume that because Khemetic
is the most appropriate name
(in your experience) this should be expressed
as what we identify with, knowing well that our
people are majorly lost in the terminology of
the oppressor?
How many people do you seek to unite?
This would be an example of bad leadership
I would suggest this is a plan B.
If you read my post before
I expressed that the location is the point to agree on first,
call it Afromerica if you like, maybe Afromet or Khemfrica
Aswad, Atlantis,or even the mothership
lets just get there first.

This is why I ask
what is
our intention.
ana lie, Pharoah Jah?


Hopefully we can take this up again later
on the board on AFRICAN SOIL.
(This should be the end,
if we truly seek the same things)
Sincere Unity.
With love Hesaid.









*

Im still in there boy, tryna UNITE you Ignant So an So's.
Laughin!
;)








*

PERHAPS WE WOULD GET FURTHER IF MORE OF US WERE INTO READING ABOUT OUR PAST...HOW CAN YOU NOT CARE ABOUT WHERE U CAME FROM? THIS IS THE INFORMATION AGE...& IF U HAVE ACCESS TO THE INFO,YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE NOT TO KNOW WHAT U SHOULD,LIKE YOUR ORIGIN!!!WHITEMAN HAS BLINDED US WITH HIS CONCEPT OF RELIGION ,WHICH IS TRULY ONE OF HIS GREATEST DIVIDE & CONQUER TECHNIQUES YET,THAT'S WHY YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO BE RELIGIOUS{& MY ENTIRE FAMILY IS CHRISTIAN BASED,MIND U}.....BLIND FAITH? NO THANK U. SPIRITUALITY? ALL DAY,ALL NIGHT.:heart:







THE TRUTH IS MEANT TO BE REVEALED,NOT CONCEALED.
IT REVEALS ITSELF IN ALL DUE TIME,ANYWAY,SO WHY HIDE IT?

By Shalom*** of ***The ConsciousCollective***

Now Hold orn there Buddy
No need to
SHOUT!
I hear you man
I int say nutt'n bout :

"NOT CARE(ing) ABOUT WHERE U CAME FROM?"
:) No Sir.
Im talking about the same location
Many names!

We could go on forever believe me.














*

THIS IS TRUE...& DON'T MIND THE TALL CAPS....I AIN'T YELLIN', IT'S JUST THE WAY I LIKE TO TYPE; I EVEN WRITE MANUALLY IN TALL CAPS....EVEN MY SMALL LETTERS LOOK LIKE TALL LETTERS,BECAUSE THAT'S JUST THE WAY I PREFER TO WRITE.

American

Homeboy quoted
Jay z!
I guess you mus be:x:

















*

The question is "Are you African or African American". If I must identify myself as one of the two, I would naturally identify myself as Afrikan. No such ethnicity as African American, or American for that matter. Furthermore, I ain't hyphenated or mixed up, I'm whole. Since the mid-'90s, I have identified myself and our people as Afrikans, only because I want us all to NOT lose sight of the fact that we originate from a specific area of the globe, which is NOT this foreign soil inside the beast's belly.

Because Alkebu-lan is now generally termed "Africa" is the reason I identify as Afrikan. Because Nia Maishani is an Alkebulanian name (Kiswahili), I use it to not only identify something very specific about my spirit, but as a reminder that I am not europagan and therefore need not be named Amy or Sally or what have you. I don't belong to the white man, therefore I care not to carry his surname (my Ancestors had no choice in the matter, but I DO). Wear my hair in locks because my Black Creator did not intend for my hair to be flat, stringy or unkinked. There is nothing in nature (no natural element) that tells us our hair's natural state should be altered.

The bottom line is that we have become too far brainwashed and specifically, whitewashed. We need to take it back to our Origin. All Afrikans and caucazoids and others as well need to be aware that Afrikans have a right and responsibility to be themselves, to be Afrikans in every way. There needs to be a variety of consistent reminders that we have a distinct and dignified identity. My cultural identifiers such as my name, ethnic category (Afrikan), skin color, hair texture (in its natural state) are reminders to society that I am not a "Negro" and will not be one just because I live in a white supremacist nation that expects Afrikans to present themselves and live their lives as Negroes.

It is crucial that we identify ourselves clearly as the People whom our genetic makeup constitutes we are, not as the remanufactured "knocked-in-the-head & left for (spiritually) dead" assimilators whom our incidental birthplace & its establishments indicate we ought to be.

:heart:
Yet another of our nation!
:heart:









*

LOVE LOVE & MORE BLACKLOVE 2 U, NIA MAISHANI....WELL ARTICULATED.

I agree. Thank you Sister Nia for that inspiring message!!!

I just think that in this country we are waaaaaaay too divided. I do beliee that you should have a connection to your cultural roots. But I also have a connection in the country where I was born. Where I hve grown up. Granted, we are a melting pot, but for all standard purposes, I am American. I have nothing against Afrika, but I'm not Afrikan. I have cultural roots there. But so does everyone if we all believe that life started in Afrika. I'm not African-American because of something that I've noticed. I was over in London and you don't call black British people African-British. This country segregates itself and I just choose not to do so.(which in some ways is segreagation in itself)

<<<<But so does everyone if we all believe that life started in Afrika.>>>> SayWord


I get tired of you intergrationist always bringing that up. My brotha, Afrikans in the diaspora are 'only' removed from Afrika for 400 hundred years, that's like a month compared to how long these other races have been gone. If a white person retrace thier roots, they are more than likely to end up in Europe. *sigh*

Like I said before, I think we are trace back Afrika. But I think you are Jamaican. That's where you were born and raised. Should you be allowed to fight in the liberation of Afrika, of course.

Pharoh Jah, I'm sorry that you don't like hearing that. Does it make it any less or any more true because you don't like hearing it or it brung up? Of course not. With that aside, my point is still the same. I think we should all learn our cultural history. But I also believe we should embrace where we are. Where we have been born andraised. Right now, I'm trying to learn more Afirkan history. The one important thing that I know and always have known is that there are a whole lot of Afrikan cultures. Each different and unique from the other. My question(this may sound silly, but it's something that has crossed my mind) is which one is mine? Is is Nigerian? Egyptian? Zambian? Where do I trace back too?

<<<I'm sorry that you don't like hearing that. Does it make it any less or any more true because you don't like hearing it or it brung up? Of course not. With that aside, my point is still the same.>>>

So does mine and I never said that it made it any less or more true. Im just pointing out that your argument doesn't hold too much weight considering the factor behind it.

<<<But I also believe we should embrace where we are.>>>

Speak for yourself my brotha!


<<<My question(this may sound silly, but it's something that has crossed my mind) is which one is mine? Is is Nigerian? Egyptian? Zambian? Where do I trace back too?>>


Many Afrikans in the Amerikkka are more likely to be from these tribes such as the Ashanti, Youraba, Ibo, or the Osun. But anywayz, why not claim all. Be proud to be an Afrikan period. All of Afrika is our home, from Kemet, to Nigeria down to Zimbabwe.

I have nothing to be proud of. I'm not Afrikan. If I was, I'd scream it form the mountain top. I'm proud to be American. I grew up here and it has shaped me into a good person. At least that what everyone who comes into contact with me thinks. I understand that my cultural heritage is in Afrika. But my heritage is also here. The Civil Rights movement. The Harlem Reniassaince. The Million Man March. Slavery. That's all a very real and tangible part of my culture. Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Maya Angelou, James Baldwin, Zora Neal Hurston. This my heritage. Billie Holiday, Muddy Waters and B.B. King. All part of my American heritage and upbringing. I am interested in Afrikan history, but I have so much to learn here.

Now you're denying yourself, your roots doesn't start in Amerikkka. Your History also goes further back to Chaka Zulu, King Tut, Hatshepsut, King Solomon and the Queen of Sheaba, Imhotep, Neffertari, Amenes etc etc. We all were born here in Amerikkka but our 'real' foundation is in Afrika. Many of the famous African-Americans you speak of get their spirit from the ancestors, we were the world's greatest poets, writers, and musician which goes back to our ancestors in Afrika - thanx to them. Langston, Zora and Maya even acknowledges that the ancestors have blessed them. I am an Afrikan who has been in Amerikkka for 400 yrs.

This is getting redundant. I consider myself American. Point is this country made me what I am now. I'm not denying Afrika. That's where my ancestors are from. But I'm from the USA. I don't like everything that's happened here, but that's life. i don't like everything that happens in Afrika. Is it so hard for you ro just see that I have my opinion on the subject and you can't change that. How can you say I deny myself. Because I don't see things your way? Afrika didn't teach me what I know now. Didn't teach me how to act, how to write how to think. Do I suffer because of that? Not to my knowledge. I'm a well balanced individual. Lost in your statements is that I a learning more Afrikan history. That doesn't mean I consider myself Afrikan..I just want to know what my ancestors were about. I know what I'm about. I know what my history is. If I would consider myself Afrikan..I'd leave this country. People like Malcom and Martin didn't fight for my civil rights so I can go to Afrika. Just like they were American, so am I.

Malcolm X, don't let him 'hood wink' you. You're an Afrikan who's people were brought to Jamaica. Marcus Garvey(a Jamaican born Afrikan) taught us that we blacks in the diaspora are African. Every other term just keeps us divided.

Those who want to be anything else, let them but do not let any 'negro' make you not proud to be Afrikan.

But I'm not Afrikan. Why can't you understand that. I was born in New York City. Went to college in New Orleans and teach in the NYC public school system. I teach English-Lit. I'm not Afrikan. If I was, I'd be proud. But I'm not. I'm sorry if that furstrates you, but that's not me. You got the wrong brother. I'm American. Malcom faught for my civil rights. He took his journey to Mecca, then came back. Martin fought for my civil rights. I am American. There's nothing wrong with that. I enjoy being American. I enjoy living here. I kno you probably think that my eyes are closed and that I'm just lost. Or whatever it is you want to say. Nothing is going to change. I'm sorry that this might be aggravating to you, but you brought it on yourself. You are the only person on this board that refuses to just let me have my opinion. I'm 23, who knows..by the time I'm 23 and a half I might change my mind. But that's something I'm going to do on my own. You can't force your philosophies on me. I'm respect your stance. You seem like a knowlegable man. But your lack of respect for my choice is starting to annoy me. Relax. It's a post board.

<<<Is it so hard for you ro just see that I have my opinion on the subject and you can't change that. How can you say I deny myself. Because I don't see things your way?>>>


You're entitle to your own opinion but you are in denile because of your statements. You say that you never been to Africa, but truth is you have no desire to ever visit. You call yourself Amerikkkan detaching Afrikan from it. I notice you make no effort to at least call yourself 'Afrikan-American'? and technically, the only 'real' Americans are the indignous natives. We're living in their country.


<<<Afrika didn't teach me what I know now. Didn't teach me how to act, how to write how to think.>>>

But if it wasn't for your great great grand parents, you wouldn't even be.

<<<Do I suffer because of that?>>>

Yes, appearently you're suffering from mental-slavery and you look at life threw Eurocentic glasses because any sane black person wouldn't be trying to be something they are not nor have they ever been. You're trying to hold on to a title that has never been you. You're rejecting your African self, trying to replace it with American. Sho, even the white people in this country isn't American, they are really Europeans who have been here for a period of time. If you want to meet an American, go visit a Indian reservation.

<<<People like Malcom and Martin didn't fight for my civil rights so I can go to Afrika.>>>

You may be right about Martin, but Malcolm is the one who said "You're not an American, you're an Afrikan who has been living in America for 400 yrs." Malcolm was against the concept of intergration. He supported "Black Separatism". Even when he left the Nation, his views didn't change too much. He believe that Islam could bring everyone together but as long as white supremacy exist, he saw a need for 'Pro-Blackism'.

I don't have any interest in going to Afrika? You're bugging. Not that it's any of your business, but I'm going to Afrika. I'm going to Zambia. And I'm going to South Africa. Don't assume what I desire to do.

Any idiot can reason if it wasn't for my great great great grand parents I wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for God I wouldn't be here.

Truth is..the Native Americans came here too. Theyjust had a different path. Don't talk to me about who or what I am. I'm not denying Afrika, I'm just telling you that I'm American. If you read all of my post, you would understand that the reason I don't call myself African-American is because I believe this country segregates itself and that is one of our major problems. I also said that when I went over to London, black men and women don't call themselves african-British. They call themselves British. This is the only country that has this issue. Black Canadians don't call themselves african-Candian. They are Canadian. I am American. You can choose to call yourslef Afrikan if you want to. But don't lump me in with you. I know what I am..I'm sorry if your chasing acceptance. Maybe you have some unresolved issues that you need to deal with. But I'm good.

Originally posted by Malcolm X
hat about the Jamiacans, or anyone from any ofthose tropical nations. They are black too. Imyself am Jamaican, yet if you ask me, Afrikan, or Afroamerican, I will tell you Afrikan. Our history traces back immediatly to Afrika. The slave ships that were to heavy once within sight of Miami, dropped off several slaves all over the lesser and greater antillies isles. As well, during the civil war, certian slave masters wanted to hide, then retrive their slaves, o they hid them in places like Trinidad, and Cuba.

After the Civil war, and after the black slave trade was outlawed, hundreds of slaves were taken, most on their own will to Jamaica, St. Lucia, the Dominican, and Trinidad and Tobago.

So with all these ties to slavery, the struggle and Africa, can someone tell me, Iam I considered African? I mean, I have great love and respect for Africa. So if I wanted to, persay, take part in the fight to liberat Africa, should I be allowe? I eally want to hear from NNQueen, and sayword, as well as sould Deep. TELL ME? Am I African? Are the Jamaican's African? I embrace the continent, and honor our culture. So, am I/we African?




OF COURSE,MALCOLM....BLACK IS BLACK....OUR NUBIANNESS or CONNECTION to OUR MOTHERLAND SPEAKS VOLUMES WITHOUT US SAYING A WORD.:toast:

I agree with you Malcolm. If there ever came a point where Afrika was in grave danger and I had the ability to stand up and fight, would. I never said that I deny my Afrikan roots. That's Jah trying to call me Eurocentric. I just don't call myself Afrikan or African-American. I am a born American. I'm doing what I can right now to learn about different Afrikan cultures. But after I've concluded my own personal studies...it's not going to make me any more Afrikan than I am already. When the revolution comes in this country..I will stand and fight. Not because I'm African-American, but because I am American and I have every right to be here as the next man. I'm not sure why you think I deny Afrika. I understand that is where my fore fathers are from. But I am from New York City.

<<<Truth is..the Native Americans came here too. Theyjust had a different path. Don't talk to me about who or what I am. I'm not denying Afrika, I'm just telling you that I'm American. If you read all of my post, you would understand that the reason I don't call myself African-American is because I believe this country segregates itself and that is one of our major problems. I also said that when I went over to London, black men and women don't call themselves african-British. They call themselves British. This is the only country that has this issue. Black Canadians don't call themselves african-Candian. They are Canadian. I am American.


First off, you need to calm down, you seem to be getting emotional.

Now yes the Native Americans have came threw a different path, but they been here longer than any of us. They are the true discoverers of this land and therefore, it belongs to them. Me and you are just occupying this. How could you sit and call yourself and American, knowing that the Natives are the original people of that title? That just make every other so-called American fake. You are not any more American than a mexican immigrant with their legal papers. The white man came and slaughtered many of the 'original' Americans, forcing them on reservations, while your people was dragged off the shores of Afrika and raped of their lauguage, religion and culture, put threw hell, made to denounce being 'Afrikan', and you got the nerve to sit up and say you're not 'Afrikan', with a straight face. How uncle-tom like. You say you was born here, AND? You are living on 'stolen' land that is not yours and never have been yours. For you to not even want no part in being identify as 'Afrikan' is a hell of a slap in the face to your great grand parents who were brought here. You are straight in denile, and as for Black-Brits or Black-Canadians, brotha, White Supremacy is all over the world, many of those people are also denying themselves. I've spoken with many Black-Brits who said in England, blacks are slowly forgeting their Afrikan Heritage. I was even told that is more common in England for a Black to date outside their race. America is not the only place with this problem. If you go to France, many blacks refer to themselves as 'Afrikan' with pride. In Spain, Blacks strongly recognize their Afrikan heritage. Not every black person overseas is brainwashed.


<<<I'm sorry if your chasing acceptance. Maybe you have some unresolved issues that you need to deal with.>>>>

No brotha, I've accept who I am..an 'African', it's time for you to do the same.

You talk a lot. Don't ever in your life call me an Uncle Tom. You really don't know me. You're the one that needs to calm down. if you can't respect my views, then just move on. I honestly could care less how you feel about how I see things. You keep saying that I'm denying Afrika. I've never said that. You said that I had no desire to go. Those words never came from me either. You're so caught up in trying to be right and trying to change my view, that you aren't reading what I'm typing. NO, I am not Afrikan. YES, I am American. I fight for Native American rights because this is their country. But I've been here long enough to say it's my country too. It was built on my fore father's backs. You don't want to call yourself American, fine. You hate it here...move to Afrika. Real simple solutions. Before you come at me with this nonsense again, make sure you read my post properly and make sure you read them all. Why you choose to come at me this way is beyond me. Have you noticed that you're the only one being anal. This is a discussion board where people share their views. I don't agree with everything I've ever read on Destee, but I respect them for their opinnion. Respect me for mine. If you can't, don't talk to me. Don't respond to anything I ever say. Because you've taken this way too far. I can't believe you have the nerve to call me an Uncle Tom. You have no idea who I am, what I am and what I do for my people. I noticed you didn't say anything when I hit you with the fact that I am going to Afrika after you made the dum statement that I have no desire to go there. Think before you respond to me. And stop trying to force your views on me. Jah, grow up.

ANYBODY BLACK WHO CALLS THEMSELVES AMERICAN IS IGNORANT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT RESPECTED AS ANY OTHER SO CALLED AMERICAN OVER HERE,{HOW ARE WE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE,& WE BUILT THIS COUNTRY? IN FACT,SATURDAY I AM GOING TO AN AFRICAN BURIAL IN THE WALL STREET AREA OF NYC FOR THE FINAL BURIAL OF 419 OF OUR ANCESTORS WHO ACTUALLY HELPED CONSTRUCT NYC}ESPECIALLY THE NATIVES,WHO HAVE BEEN [[[TOLD]]] WHERE TO LIVE INSTEAD OF BEING FREE TO LIVE WHEREEVER THEY WISH ON THEIR LAND....CRACKAS TRULY DISGUST ME WITH THEIR SATANIC WAYS & ACTIONS....THAT'S WHY THEIR ENTIRE RACE HAS CENTURIES OF BAD KARMA YET TO EMBRACE THEM & SWALLOW THEM WHOLE.

I'm Ignorant? Because I claim acountry that my for father's built? Yall are bugging. I don't even know what to say about that nonsesne. I'm ignorant because I understand I have a wealth of culture here that I haven't even scratched the surface of? I'm proud of the black men and women in this country because of the struggle we indure and we keep on fighting. But I'm ignorant to want to claim what we built? I'm ignorant because I choose not to see things your way? I'm sorry that yall are so closed minded that you only see one way of looking at things I'm sorry yall are so close minded that you just can't respect my views. I'm American. If you don't agree with me, move on.

LMAO, SAYWord....put down your sword

First of all, I didn't call you an uncle-tom, Im saying your views are uncle-tom like. Whenever a brotha trys to dettach 'Africa' from himself, then he's still have chains on the mind. Secondly, we both have difference of opinions, so Im counteracting, why are you getting so emotional? Im not trying to get you to change your views, Im trying to get you to examine yourself a little further since you're 'learning'. Im pointing out to you that we can't be American because we aren't indignous to this land. This land was also built on my forefathers backs but why are we still at the bottem of the barrel? Why is the asian and the hispanic community moving up faster than us? As for you going to Africa, I admit, that was my own assumption and I realize we're both in the struggle for liberation so apologize for that. Now as for you telling me to move to Africa since I don't like it here...watch yourself now..Lets just say I'll be in the motherland soon before this place comes down. But again, stop getting emotional..

ALL YOUR TRUE WEALTH IS IN ALKEBULAN or so called " Africa"...WHERE DO YOU THINK THESE DEVILS STOLE EVERYTHING THAT GOT THEM THEIR MATERIAL WEALTH? ASIA? NO. EUROPE? GUESS AGAIN....BY THE WAY,I'M VERY OPEN-MINDED....& HOW U FEEL IS HOW U FEEL,I'm just naturally counteracting it,that's all.

You're saying the Native Americans are the only true Americans because they were here longest. I'm saying that I've been here long enough to call myself American. My fore fathers built this country. It's more mine than theirs and I refuse to let anyone tell me different. it's not that I've detached myself from Afrika, it's that I need to claim what is mine. We built this country, we continue to make it work. I won't stay at the bottom of the barrel. Me claiming to be Afrikan isn't helping my struggle here. I hae so many fights to fight. And a lot of brothers and sisters before me fought for my American rights. Fought for me to have equal rights. And we don't have that yet. And I won't quit till we do. I'm not looking for acceptance by calling myself American. i'm looking for what is mine. I don't want to segregate myself, that's why I don't call myelf African-American. I don't call myself Afrikan because I feel it would be a injustice to all my fore fathers who built this country. I recognize my anscetral roots are in Afrika, I've never denied that. But I still am American. This is my home. I've formed my culture here. I look at college applications and I see that they say, "mark one....afro-american, cacusion, asian-american, carib-american, other" They don't segregate the white people so I refuse the same. When I went to college I clicked other. I follow my roots through America, to the West Indies and to Afrika. But I am American. That doesn't mean I haven't embraced my West Indian culture, and it doesn't mean that I deny Afrika. I just know that I'm American, and I won't let anyone take what is mine.

Jah..you said you didn't call me Uncle Tom but my views are Uncle Tom like...to me that amounts to the same thing. But if you didn't mean it that way, then I'm not going to trip. Soul...you however did call me ignorant. Let's take it down a level and not resort to name calling. Don't take it too far. Counteracting my veiws is one thing, attacking me and calling me ignorant is another. Let's all just try to chill.

The Asian and Latino(don't call them hispanic, they don't like that) communities are moving up faster than us, because their parents and children have more resolve. I'm teaching now...and when I have parent-teacher meetings I notice that the Latino parents always show up and take a really streong interest in what their child is doing. Unfortunatwly I can't say that about the Black parents. We don't push our children anymore. We don't help them strive to be better., That's why they are moving up faster than we are. because they want more for themselves. Our children have become lacksadasical. That's part of the reason I became a teacher. I'm trying to light a fre under our children's butts and knock some sense into them.

By citizenship yes, anyone could be American. Im a U.S citizen. My forefathers have struggled to become U.S citizen. But the blood in my vains are African. But we are not indignous. 'Naturally', our home is Africa or Europe. Brotha, do you not think that the Native Americans have more of a right to this land than me and you? I respect your opinion but calling my self an American is a big disrespect to my grandparents who were snatched from their homeland. I could see if they immigrated over here but they had no desire to ever come here. However you do make a few good points. Like the applications that have African-American, White, latino etc etc.. But brotha, it seem like we've been struggling for equality forever. We built this country, so why are we still suffering, it seem like forever we have a long way to go with 'equality'. This is why I support Black Nationalism over the Civil Rights Movement but that's a different topic.

Brothers ... no personal attacks, please.

:heart:

Destee

True...it's taking too long to get equality, but why give up? I can't quit. Truth is, there is nothing we can do about how we came here. We're here now. We built this. It's ours. I'm not going to let anyone deny me of that. No one is indignous to this country technically. Because people either migrated here or were brought here. But after 4 centuries, it's my home. I'd feel like a coward if I let anyone tell me that I can't have it. I understand your point, and to some extent I do agree with you. But this is my home. I'm American. I know my ancestors are from Afrika. But that doesn't make me Afrikan. It means that's where my roots are. When I go to Zambia and South Africa, I plan to learn more. But just because I've learned more, I don't see how that makes me any more Afrikan than I am now. I am a big supporter of the Civil Rights Movement. Because I'm going to fight for what I deserve. What is rigtfully mine.

I hear you but I believe through Civil Rights, this wont be achieve. I like Malcolm's Black Nationalist plan because it focus on us trying to built a solid foundation for ourselves and not putting too much presure on trying to be equal with our oppressors. Instead of trying to work for a white corporation, why don't we build our own corporation, and we need to start keeping our money in our communities. But that's just me. Now no-one being indignous to this country...hmm, The Natives built their whole foundation here. Being here over a period of time (like a thousand years), they adapted to this place. I believe they are more entitle to ownership over this land then the Europeans and African-Americans, although we put blood, sweat and tears into this country so we have more of a right to stay here than these white people (who's ancestors have wreck havoc as soon as they got here) so in a way I kinda agree with you but Africa is where my spirit is at. I don't think being here for centuries make me American, it just means Im an African who's been here over a period of time.

When I talk about equality, I could care less about white America. just want to be treated like a human being. Too many brothers and sisters have gone down in the struggle to give up now. I won't let their sacrifices be in vain. I believe in keeping money in the community. But we as a people haven't done that. Rap/Hip Hop is suppose to be "our" music. But we don't support it. We dilute and little white kids buy it. Rob Johnson sold BET to Viacom. We need to instill certain lessons to our children. That's why I don't give it up. I'm all about keeping money in the community and building a finicail base for ourselves. But I'm not sure how tha translates into me calling myself Afrikan.

We all want to be free. But we keep ourselves trapped. Who is the struggle against? We're the one's killing ourselves, droppin' out of school, unemployed, lack of black owned business, disrespecting our women, selling drugs, largest prison population etc etc...Is the struggle against ourselves...We are still slaves, this time it's just in the mind. Me calling myself 'African' is redefining myself of who I am and not letting anyone define me. It keeps me connected to who I am and where I came from. The struggle is not only about achieving human eqaulity, it also has to do with knowledge of self.

But the problem is parents not teaching their children better. It's not about what we define ourselves as. I was raised right. I got popped when I did something stupid and then my parents taught me the right thing to do. Now a days parents don't instill discipline in their children. Calling ourselves Afrikan isn't the issue when talking about what our struggle is now. We kill each other, we need to stop and realize that we are all that we have. Lack of Black owned busineses, we need to start buying grocery stores and laundramats and doing more practical things with our money. We need to move on from selling drugs. A we do need to so something about more than half of us in prison. But I still don't see how calling ourselves Afrikan changes any of that.

SayWord I agree with you for the most part but as for calling ourself afrikan, the struggle also has to do with knowing who we are and where we come from. The struggle is also defining who we are after we have been told so many lies. Yes, what we call ourselves are not as important as the rest of the problems that we face but it's apart of the struggle for mental-liberation. It may be easy for you to call yourself whatever, but for many of us, everything is not simple. Calling myself African is a personal and conscious choice and I applaued those who do the same. Calling myself American isn't helping us either.

To the rescue
Pharoah Jah
Ma brother, Big respect for holding the fort
Let me just elaberate on why Sayword we
should not entertain this American thing.

American is the location of birth I agree but as
for what it means in essence (in a loud proud black tongue) I beg you to tell me?
?
?
?
?
?I know we aint belileving the Bu****e now?
?
are we?
?
Excuse the sarcasm but there is no such thing
Its an idea in a Slavers mind that was built
on a lie and will always be a lie.
Just as the west Indians were told England
was paved in Gold.
Pharoah jah,
I believe what we are witnessing here is
denial, i say this because some of the things mentioned (by way of argument)hold no water
Of course our forefathers struggled to become
citizens but lets face it they didnt know what
we know. Half a them didnt know where they
were stolen from.If its about loyalty they were
Christians believing in a pale jesus, but we know better now. Let us not use emotional
ties to justify our affiliation with a country
that used blood and trickology of the worst kind to build itself.
Heres a fact
All things that last
take good time to build. ~There are certain
Kharmic principles (even in war)that must be
obeyed or destruction is inevitable.
great britain is one of the most powerful
Kingdoms in the world but it took millenia of
years to build,yet In only four hundred
years america has become a super power. It was a rush and the outcome is obvious, dont be too patriotic to this virtual existance so not
to see that you are just passing through and
your location is merely a matter of time.

There is no american dream and there is
no prize for fighting for an illusiion,im sure the
wife of Lot felt the same. We are world citizens, yes america is ours too but in truth we are
AFRICANs. The reason i have a problem with us trying to be American is because in
analysing "Africa" coupled with "america" as a name i notice that Transgression
is expressed in the america part and rich moral
and culture is expressed in the Africa.
America (which is really a British experiment)
has given our people Loss of respect for elders,
disrespect for Women,loss of moral boundaries,no respect for human
life,homosexuality,drugs, alcoholism,
low hygene,atheism,role reversal and many
many many
more transgressions. Where you find this is
not the case is where there are remnants of
our African self Which I would rather attribute
to our Forefathers even if you dont see it. I
urge you to open your eyes just a little wider so you can see how Africa is today mimicin a
lifestyle that promises the end of our sacred beliefs just because american has African joined to the name. If I could I would ban the name African american for the sake of Africas Purity
(If there is any left)
Like i said before there is really no such
thing, sooner or later(as hard as it is to
believe)you will have to face the truth that
it is a cage that keeps the blessed melinated people from returning to the father. i dont
believe you must make a physical move to
reconnect but certainly you must see
exactly what america is and dont be fooled
into believing that ancient hype.
Can you not ask yourself why Hollywood
is fixated with an Agenda to
get all the nations of the earth to come and
take a bite out of THE PROVERBIAL APPLE
that began mans transgression
ONLY NOW WE WANNA OWN IT!





Yous an African buddy.










*

I feel calling ourselves American gives us more of a right to claim what is ours. If I called myself Afrikan, I wouldn't have any right to this land that my fore father built. It's not a descion that I made over night. I've thought about this one for a while. I have a birth right. And I feel that I would deny that if I called myself Afrikan.

I'll tell yall this again..I'm American. The white man isn't the reason we don't raise our children right. We are the reason we don't raise our children right. We've lost touch with what should be important to us. The "American" dream is different for us all. Mine is to live with my wife and kids while teaching English-Lit at an acredited university. I'm here. And I will fight for my rights here. Because this is my country. If it was built on the back of my fore fathers then I have a right to claim and no one should tell me different. Yes...culturally we were pretty much raped. But I'm taking back what we worked for. It's ours. That's how I see it. Big business was built on our labor. The "freedom" of this country from England was gained from our stenght. I will use their own words to claim what is mine. If you want to call yourself Afrikan and you feel that will better help the struggle, then do what you have to. This is how I see me helping our people. By teaching. And by teaching my students to fight for wht is ours. By doing my community service. By being involved with the Church. I call myself American...cause that;s what I am. You calling me Afrikan isn't helping the problem. It's kind of like calling me a name that I'm not going to answer to because I'm too busy trying to help th young ones come up. I respect your opininon Hesaid. And that was an interesting read, but I'm still American.

<<I feel calling ourselves American gives us more of a right to claim what is ours. If I called myself Afrikan, I wouldn't have any right to this land that my fore father built.>>>


Sayword, you're pretty much beating a dead horse with a stick. The only 'rights' we'll ever have is the ones we have right now. We are not and never will be treated as first class American citenzens. As much as we've been threw in this country and as dirty as our government is, I don't want to be associated with the name 'American', I'll feel really insulted. At least I have a place I could truly call home. Face it, our fore fathers broke their backs and we get nothing in return. Instead of trying to be something I am not, I choose to take it back to my origin and accept myself.

Afrika isn't my home. America is. This is where I was born. Where I live. And I don't care how bleak the odds, I'm going to fight. That's just my nature. I am a firm believer that if a person isn't going to fight for the struggle, then they should leave. Why stay here if you hate it so much. Claude McKay wrote the poem "If We Must Die." In that poem he implored us to keep on fighting and never back down. And if must doe...we will die like men. I'm not going to call myself Afrikan because I don't agree withAmerican polcies. I might seem like an indealist, but that's just how I'm looking at things. If I ever lose the fire in me, I'll leave this country. But it's still in me. If I ever calld myself Afrikan...I'd move to Afrika. But I'm American and I will fight for what is mine.

LOL

Brotha, we're all fighting the struggle. Your struggle is Civil Rights, My struggle is 'Pan-Afrikanism'. We are both trying to achieve Liberation. My dedication is full time, so please don't go there and as I've stated, I'll be in Africa soon but I have a duty to teach the ignorant minds of our people. In other words, Im mentally-liberated now it is others I will lead to freedom. Calling myself 'African' has more to do with some 'Amerikkkan' policies, it's about 're-claiming myself'. After my forefathers, have been stripped of who they are, I am re-lighting the torch and re-discovering who I am.

You know what....we are going around in circles. I've exhuasted what I've had to say. And you have too. It was interesting while it lasted. Good talking to you.

HOTEP! ...

I became inspired, reading the various comments concerning what so called BLACKS in amerikkka, refer to themselves as being.

According to the information, we (NILE VALLEY INSTITUTE - NVI)
have ... There is NO such place as Africa ... That was a new name, given to the mother land, after the sabotage and fall, of ancient, KEM - KEMET - KAMIT, referred to by the greeks as ... EGYPT .

WE are ... KEMETIANS ... KEMETIC ...
Just as european so called jews are often referred to as being ...
semitic .

Because of the ORIGINAL KEMETIAN (EGYPTIAN) MYSTERY SYSTEM being so ADVANCED ... BEYOND, european comprehension ... KEMETIAN (EGYPTIAN) CULTURE ... Was LOCKED AWAY, in the archives of the federation of european secret societies ... KEMET / NUBIA, became so called Africa, RE-NAMED by the federation, TOTALLY, RE-DEFINING, and GROSSLY, SUBVERTING, ORIGINAL KEMETIAN CULTURE .

For example: * The KEMETIAN ORIGINAL NAME of a so called PHAROH, is a ... SHEKKUM .
* The so called OBELISK (greek definition), also referred to as the Washington Monument, is a ... TEKHEN .
* Jerusalem, is an adaptation of the KEMETIAN word ... HERU!!! ...
(METU NETER) .

The federation of european secret societies, RE-WROTE, so called African, and WORLD HISTORY, because THEIR DEEPEST FEAR and ETERNAL NIGHTMARE ... Is for the DESCENDANTS of the ORIGINAL KEMETIANS (so called BLACK EGYPTIANS) ... To DISCOVER ... WHO WE REALLY ARE!!! ... COLLECTIVELY .

As one begins to COMPREHEND ... OUR HIDDEN CULTURE ...
One BEGINS to COMPREHEND ... WHY??? ... THEY are PARANOID, ESPECIALLY TOWARD BLACK MALES in amerikkka .

When I say, OUR HIDDEN CULTURE ... I, speak of what europeans refer to as being so called ... 'SCIENCE FICTION'.
THEY could NOT in any way, allow the GLOBAL MASS POPULATION, to discover, that ... ORIGINAL KEMETIANS (BLACK EGYPTIANS) were moving about in ... ANTI GRAVITY, INTERSTELLAR SPACE CRAFT ... Between VARIOUS PLANETS ... THOUSANDS of YEARS AGO .

KEMETIAN CULTURE became SYNTHESIZED, RE-cycled, and
RE-defined, by THEM, and given back to the BLACK MASS POPULATION ... GROSSLY ... SUBVERTED . OUR NUBIAN / KEMETIC HOME LAND, now referred to as being so called Africa .

So called Christianity ... Buddhism ... Yoruba ... Islam ... And the so called Jewish, Kabala, Talmud, and Torah ... Are ALL, ADAPTED, from ... ORIGINAL KEMETIAN CULTURE.

IN THEIR so called 'SCIENCE FICTION' movies and novels ... WE!!! ... Are the so called ... ALIENS ... THEY are DEEPLY CONCERNED about .

HETEPU!!! ...

LORD! IMHOTEP!

very eye-opening indeed! thanks for the insight...this is a great place you all have here and i absolutely love it here...i have never encountered an environment so beautiful. i would love to be a contributor to such a pleasant and warming space; however due to my circumstances, i am crippled as far as via email but would feel great pride in taking the long route (money order). :)
sincerely bella

Welcome !

I have to agree with Lord Imhoteps
break down of wh and what we are though
If you look back there have been others
who claimed the name was incorrect, to that
I say we need the most basic of African
knowledge to relate to initially then we can
take up the Name issue when we have come
together and agreed on the location(which is
the same place)
To add to his comments and to saywhat's
expressing a fight for independance.
Our peoples story has been portrayed in many sci-fi movies.
We are Neo (a mix up of the
word ONE)
In truth america is still not independant of
britain most of this is (as I keep trying to tell
you) deception, they juggle the power around
so they can hide and control,these agenda's
go on for centuries, what we must do is think
in terms of the eternal Soul and not mortal
life and one will see that this is not the home
but as you said already brother you feel you
are an american and we are going round in
circles so Peace and Love (truly) but I hope
when the time comes to pop the Question
again at conflicting times of battle we aint
on opposite sides, as Shoshana Johnson and
others were, because next time the war may
be against the regiment of God (Angels).












Agent Smith: As you can see, we've had our eye on you for some
time now, Mr. Anderson. It seems that you've been living two
lives. In one life, you're Thomas A. Anderson, program writer
for a respectable software company, you have a social security
number, you pay your taxes, and you help your landlady carry out
her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go
by the hacker alias Neo and are guilty of virtually every
computer crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a
future, and one of them does not. I'm going to be as forthcoming
as I can be, Mr. Anderson. You're here because we need your
help. We know that you've been contacted by a certain
individual, a man who calls himself Morpheus. Now whatever you
think you know about this man is irrelevant. He is considered by
many authorities to be the most dangerous man alive. My
colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you but I
believe that you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to
wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start and all that we're
asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known
terrorist to justice.
Neo: Yeah. Wow, that sound like a really good deal. But I think
I got a better one. How about I give you the finger... and you
give me my phone call.
Agent Smith: Um, Mr. Anderson. You disappoint me.
Neo: You can't scare me with this Gestapo crap. I know my
rights.....










Agent Smith:
Have you ever stood and stared at it, marveled at
it's beauty, it's genius? Billions of people just living out
their lives, oblivious. Did you know that the first matrix was
designed to be a perfect human world. Where none suffered. Where
everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept
the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed that we
lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world.
But I believe that as a species, human beings define their
reality through misery and suffering. The perfect world would
dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.
Which is why the matrix was redesigned to this, the peak of your
civilization. I say your civilization because as soon as we
started thinking for you it really became our civilization which
is of course what this is all about. Evolution, Morpheus,
evolution, like the dinosaur. Look out that window. You had your
time. The future is our world, Morpheus. The future is our time.

















Agent Smith: Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of
inevitability. That is the sound of your death. Goodbye, Mr. Anderson.





Neo: MY NAME IS NEO.











*

Welcome bellasky and we're so pleased that you like it here. We work hard and diligently to make this a place where our people feel welcomed and 'safe'. We hope that you join the many other Brothers and Sisters who have decided to support our community by becoming financial contributors and there any several options you can choose from to make that happen.

Peace and welcome to our family!
:heart:

Hesaid...that was deep. I know a lot of movies and lit talk about our underlined struggle. the Matrix. X-men. To some extent, Fight Club. I don't think we are on opposite sides. Just seeing things differently.

Originally posted by bellasky
very eye-opening indeed! thanks for the insight...this is a great place you all have here and i absolutely love it here...i have never encountered an environment so beautiful. i would love to be a contributor to such a pleasant and warming space; however due to my circumstances, i am crippled as far as via email but would feel great pride in taking the long route (money order). :)
sincerely bella Hello Bellasky !!!! :wave:

Thank you so much for loving it here already !!! It is so kind of you and especially moving, that you'd join and almost immediately consider us worthy of your financial support. That is very encouraging. :) Thank You. You are more than welcome to mail your contribution to the following address, making it payable to "Destee" ...

Destee
P. O. Box 180512
Mobile, AL 36618

Again, thank you so much! Please make yourself right at home, we have voice chat too ... don't miss checking it out! ... www.destee.com/chat ...

:heart:

Destee

Sayword
Respect Bru
You just mentioned a movie that
most people slept on,
Fight club went over everyones heads!
That movie .....Matter of fact
I think Malcolm X would find that one
very useful.

Much Love.



















*

What is Fight Club about?

Hey Bru,
Re; Fight club.
Seemingly its about an underground mens
club where they get together to fight but in
its essence it shows how a man appealed to
the supressed nature of the male thats
bound in the office (the same could be done
to great success with women) Also he
expresses (without many people knowing) how
to bring down a system based on :
We are the system, the rest you gotta see.
It went over alot of peoples heads because they are more interested in the entertainment
aspect but its totaly revolutionary at the core.

Come to think of it Its probably time I watched
it again.















*

That has to be my favorite movie of all time. It so much deeper than what people think. When I finally upgraded to DVDs, that was my first purchase.

One of my co-workers just returned from a class where a man sued the dept he worked for because they gave him a job as supervisor and then demoted him. Why? He wrote on his application that he was African-American, but was he. He is a white man born in Africa (so that makes him African) and then as an adult he got U.S citizenship and now he's an American. Did he lie on his application or not. What is he?

By the way, he won the lawsuit. The court came to the conclusion that he did not lie....they said he is indeed an African American. Destee fam...break it down for me.

Hes Africrackan!
:)
Na hes a liar.
:)
Im jus playin I dunno
what he is CONFUSED MAYBE?
Thats why its better to be
thorough in your self assesment
these hybrids cause too much confusion
and uncertainty
mixing everything up.
I think they conflict.

















*

I think he's the true definition of an African-American

Remember that we are one of the few groups that is so bogged down in self-denial and cultural confusion that we can't even agree on what to call ourselves as a people. It's not as if a majority of us agree on something and only becoming quirky if we have the choice. We act as victimizing victims and argue about our label.

We haven't officially claimed any moniker so we can't be surprised when the government makes the rules about what we are and what someone else is. Just look at how people react when you present just calling ourselves "African".

We are renters of our owneship as people with an unclear lease and a corrupt landlord.

Do it for ourselves black folks and you don't have to be upset at others for what we should be in control of.

Know what deepa?

In just four sentences you said more than all of us have said
in the entire thread.

Much Much Love
AFRICAN QUEEN.














*

Co-sign with Hesaid.......Deepa you said all that needs to be said.

Originally posted by Sun Ship
We are a universal people, the original people. We have no beginning and we have no end. We are usually conceptualizing our perceptions, of who we are, to fit conditions and causalities. As I have said before, even TIME is a concept and historically names come and go. When did we first start calling ourselves African? Think about it? We need to be called what we know and perceive about ourselves RIGHT NOW, without excluding our spiritual, cultural or historical ancestry. What really counts is that, which is behind a name. Names are only symbols that direct you to something GREATER THAN THE NAME ITSELF! SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY EXIST!

First of all, a racial identifier or name is a Caucasian anthropological paradigm. Secondly, a reference to color becomes only a determiner, when someone shows up, usually extremely different from what you have seen (i.e. white folks). The oldest and broadest perspective is, that Africa is a continent in a sea of continents, in an ocean of worlds, in a universe of galaxies.

Remember, most people in the world have a name for their selves and a name they are called by others. Look into the history of most cultures and you will see this. Example, India was originally called Bharata, by the original inhabitants (Africoid people) and had no nationalistic boundaries.

How far are the borders of Africa, really? When does one place end and another begins. If Ivan Van Sertima is correct, in his book, THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS, we were here in the so-called Americas, when Europeans thought the earth was flat and when they weren’t even dreaming about America!

WE WERE PROBABLY ALL OVER THE WORLD BEFORE THE CAUCASOID COULD EVEN PERCEIVE HIMSELF, LET ALONE NAME HIS SELF!!

So, call your selves many things, for everything in the universe has many names.

LETS STOP BEING SO REACTIONARY, FOR WE WERE THE ONES WHO NAMED ALL THINGS AND INVENTED THE CONCEPTS OF SIGNS, SYMBOLS AND WORDS!!

Choose one or ALL of the below:

Black
Brown
Original Homo sapiens
Alkebu-lanian
Khemitic
African
African American
African Hebrew
African Asiatic
Nubian
Man
God
Or something else.

Lets refer to and expand on the teachers, of old, insights:

WHEN YOU SEE ME, YOU SEE GOD. WHEN YOU SEE GOD, YOU SEE ME. AND IF GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING, IS HE REALLY DEFINABLE.

MAYBE?
MAYBE, NOT.


Peace, love and Ashe,

Sun ship

P.S. - That's right!! I forgot to vote.

Here's my vote: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND NONE OF THE ABOVE. AND MORE.



Think our two American friends need to read this...

<<<how have we become so weak and fragile? why do we look outside of ourselves for answers?>>>>

This is my last response on this thread, then yall could have it.


Because our mentality has been really tampered with due to oppression. We're so backwards that we're arguing over rather if we should take on the name of our African ancestors or our oppressor's name "American" when in fact, there are many names to go by....Pick one that fits you best. Our fore fathers struggled in this country to make a name for themselves, however they had no clue about Africa, how could they have claim it?.... but our forefathers 'before that' made a name for them selves by building the foundation of civilization..Which came first, the 'black African' or 'the black American'. Why do we look outside of ourselves for answers? good question, but who are we looking outside to? While you choose to look to our 'American' fore fathers, Im looking to our African ancestors..This isn't some thought I just grasped over night, this is due to looking more and more deep into myself (knowledge of self). The more I come into knowledge of self, the more I realize, we're not who we think we are. Part of Black Consciousness is elavating, self awareness,
re-discovering one's self. After 400 yrs of lost identity that was taken from our fore-fathers, Im stepping up and re-claiming it and I am proud. We've been threw so much, snatched off the shores of Africa, brought to the Americas and stripped of our culture, language, religion...forced to break our backs with hard labor, beatin with whips, raped, lynched, attacked by dogs, spit on, force to watch our family members be sold off or 'die', and just be humiliated, oppressed, depressed and supressed. And threw all that hell we were put threw, I still have the heart to say Im a Afrikan. I still carry the pride of my ancestors and I will never feel no shame. If you feel differently, than oh well brotha/sista, that's you.



Final thought - Regardless of what we call ourselves, One thing that will never change is the fact that we're the Original people. See SunShip's last post.

Shem Hotep.

Hold Up NOOOWW!
Did he say?
"my only question would be what prevents you from returning to africa? could it be the racism/ genocide/ social caste system in africa or could it be a deeper understanding that there is no greater nation on earth than america?"

Oh LARDY LARDY.
I just realised that Pharoah Jahs stance was right
IGNORE!
Notice how these AMERICANS have all of two
posts on the site, meaning people are joining
destees just to disagree. Ha ha Ha ha!

know what that means, Pharoah?

means we takin on the whole internet,
they just coming and droppin like flies.
I aint got energy for this,maybe young
Malcolm can school em for a while.

before I go:
This has got to be the dumbest, patriotic,
millenium slavery statement ive ever heard.
Again.
"there is no greater nation on earth than america?"

OH Yeah guess thats what you'll be saying
when the Rest of the World string you up an
ask you to repeat that.
Or will it?

by the way the 1040 tax you pay goes
overseas to her Majesty the queen.
I guess you believed your own hype.

DOH!!!





*

I read it..I'm still American.

Hesaid....calm down. You're not fighting the whole internet. Take a step back and breathe. Yall are going crazy on the board. If I knew you couldn't handle other people's views, I wouldn't have posted here. Nah, I'm lying...I would've posted even more. But all jokes aside...relax. Just take some deep breaths and count to 10.

Sayword
I've counted to 10 and im aaiight now.
PEACE!
But do read Deepa's post.


Then break it down


then


Re-proclaim your roots


and we'll just put it down to


temporary MEMORY LOSS


and move on.:)




We cling to this condemned rock like the
Titanic,
Passified to reduce shock and panic,
we're rocked into a deep sleep.
(Hesaid)









*

XXPanthaXX
Yeah
welcome back
Your turn bru!








*

Yall are really funny. It's amusing to me that yall are getting this worked up because you don't like the way I think. Because I don't think like you doesn't mean I have chains on the mind. It doesn't mean I've lost myself. It just means that I don't agree with you. No harm in that. But if you want to take on the internet, have fun. I read all the post. And I know what I'm claiming. Nothing has changed.

"Hotep Family
Brother X icthroughu is no longer with us....."
Oh shoo you cyberhitmen move wit
the quickness.
Ha Ha LOL!















*

It seem like the only time I get to call myself Afrikan without being attacked by "them" (you know who you are) is when I write poetry. Maybe I should leave the open forum alone for a while. In the poetry section, I seem to get alot of "Black Love". Unlike here for expressing "Afrikan Pride"..

Peace Brother Pharoah Jah...the revolutionary path that you are on is often rife with naysayers and unbelievers. Do not look to them for support or encouragement. To do that would be suicidal.

Your Brothers and Sisters in the struggle here in the Open Forum recognize and acknowledge your wisdom and respect you as a warrior. Stand firm in what you believe. Always remain open to knowledge and continue to question information that doesn't make sense to you. Weigh it all against the spirit of our Ancestors that are always with you...guiding you and showing you the way. Black love is here for you, Pharoah Jah...in the Open Forum. Stay with us and continue to share your wisdom.

Peace
:heart:

I second that bruther AFRICAN.

I hope the people giving you a hard time stop. It's not right for people tp attack you for what you believe in.

Aint my Avatar corney?
Ha

I think it's kind of cool. want an avatar, but I don't know how to get one.

Sayword

"I think it's kind of cool. want an avatar, but I don't know how to get one."


Go into your : user CP - Edit Options - Avatar.












*

Greetings to the board. I POSTED THIS SAME REPLY IN THE THREAD STARTED BY NGUMBI. I've been following this thread for some time and decided it was time to tell My Story. I was born and raised (not bred) in SAVANNA(H), GA. (I conveniently put parenthesis around the 'H', to show relation to the Afrikan word). Savanna(h) imported African slaves from the Caribbean and the Continent. Savanna(h) is complete with Islands and Swamp/Marshland. This is ideal for growing rice hence the "Lowcountry" being mainly composed of Rice Plantations. West Africans (the ones who survived the middle passage) were brought there to work the rice fields since they were already experts at it. (Savannah was named so because of the resemblance of the land to certain places on the coast of West Africa <NOT a coincidence!>) The Patriarch of my mother's family was an ex-slave who built a community in rural GA for the rest of his family who existed at the time in the 19th century. His mother was an Afrikan who was born on the continent. The patriarch of my father's family did the same thing in another rural GA town. You see, I'm part of the FOURTH generation of Afrikans who were enslaved here in GA. Have I ever been to Africa? No, I have not had the pleasure as of yet. Am I not an Afrikan? OF COURSE I AM!! Not in the PC definition. But to all "Black" people who would deny my birthright, I pose ONE QUESTION: If extraterrastrials (let's just say Martians) landed anywhere on Earth, procreated, and after a couple of generations would they still be martians or earthlings?? I know this is a bit of a stretch but the laws still apply. Just like brother Malcolm said, putting kittens in the oven DON'T MAKE THEM BISCUITS. Now, there are some "Black" people who feel the need to deny themselves and everyone else (misery loves company) of their ancestry. One more question, my lil' cousin is half Nigerian half Georgian. Is he an Afrikan? The thing is you would never know it unless he told you. My Brother-in-law is Haitian and whenever he comes to GA (not a big concentration of Haitians) He is "mistaken" for being from the Continent because of his skin tone, accent, right down to the food that he eats. And we all have heard some knowledge of the traditions that Haitians have kept to this day. But according to some, Haitians are not Afrikan because of where they are on a map(???) I have news for SOME of you. Right across the Savannah River in South Carolina there are some AFRIKAN settlements that have survived. Yes, I'm referring to the GEECHIE/GULLAH nation, who still speak a "pidgin" or creole dialect mixed with english AND West African words. Sorry for the long post but I HAD to get this off my chest. I'm tired of the division. How in the HELL are we supposed to UNITE and we're jabberin' and slobberin' profusely about who is what? What are YOU? http://www.ccpl.org/ccl/gullah.html http://www.islandpacket.com/man/gullah/ http://www.blackconsciousness.com

Hi,

I posted my thoughts and opinions in response to several comments made in a thread entitled, 'Do africans hate black americans?' on the 'Africa Forum'.

Apparently some Africans look down on African Americans regarding them as layabouts addicted to welfare who play the race card as and when it suits them....while some African Americans see their brothers and sisters back home as arrogant stuck ups.

Since the topic of this thread is similar in nature to the aforementioned, I hope you don't mind if I post it here as the thread seems to have already ran its course by the time I made my contribution.

Thanks and much love.......uzoka


we better stick together

Listen people, we are family [as the song says] and if we don't get over what are very small differences, as compared to those differences that exist between us [Africans] and whites, we won't just find ourselves without a slice of the pie or looked down upon by the entire world [bad enough as that is]we will find ourselves dead....exterminated......gone and our memory erased from the history books.

The reason we Africans are hated [and yes I used the word, African....how dare you be ashamed to be called an African...mother of all modern humanity and birthplace of civilization and all that that entails...foundation on which ALL subsequent progress made by mankind is permitted to stand....such pursuits as astronomy, agriculture, architecture, engineering, aeronautics, mathematics, medicine, metallurgy, physics and writing systems had their beginnings in Africa [kmt].
Spirituality too...from which all the present day major religions are derived, christianity, judaism, buddhism, islam, hinduism....oh and Africans were building boats to sail to asia to do business with them too.....confuscius [sp?] would hitch a ride on those boats to go back and study....you are AFRICAN....yeah sure...Africa is going through a very bad time but there was a time when the Europeans were savages whose only contribution was to leave great mounds of garbage as a testament to the fact that they were here or there....at a time when Africans were building pyramids....reading the stars....sailing oceans....everyone has had their embarrassing moments and their glorious highs....it's part and parcel of the human experience.]

Anyway....as I was saying, we are hated because of Africa's vast mineral wealth.

There's a real fear among those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo that African's will unite and take their God given **** back!

That is why we as a people are constantly and continually denigrated at every opportunity.
Our worth...our humanity is constantly under attack so as to justify the rape of Africa and her people.

The civil rights movement 'won' for us a few crumbs and when I say 'won', I mean that those crumbs were given as way of quenching that fire that roared in the belly of Africans around the world...a fire that sought complete and unrestrained freedom, a freedom that would have eventually led to Africans returning to the motherland in great numbers and working [along with those who chose to remain as part of the African diaspora]with their brothers and sisters in Africa to restore Africa to greatness.

IMO, we are relatively free today because Europeans [with the help of those modern day steppin' fetchit lackey negro houseboy African elites who pander to European interests at the greatest of expense to their own African people] want to this time secure the wealth of Africa legally [neo colonisation] through privitisation.

Europe's wealth [and that of Japan and the US] is very heavily dependent on the vast mineral wealth of Africa ...without it, they would dwindle to nothing very quickly indeed.

Did you know that the UK's oil reserves will run out by 2005 and the US's will run out by 2020 [iraq anyone?]

Once they have secured the wealth for the good of Europe and only Europe [I mean Europe geographically speaking as well as racially...whites basically...and lets face it, Europe never had the African's best interests at heart] then there will no longer be a need to pretend that they are officially striving for racial equality.

Then if we are not ready, it will be game over.

Family of mine, our descendents won't be shackled in chains as our ancestors were...no....they will be executed.
For instance, did you know that the US has been researching biological weaponry that targets specific genotypes?

Why?

It doesn't take a genius to work that one out.

Wake up please please please....love one another, help each other....lets get ready to rumble and all that.

Whites, as a people, have never liked us...dont like us...don't want to like us...and never will and consider us a stain that must be removed.

The only way we will survive is to unite, sort our **** out and prepare our defenses back home in Africa.

That's not to say that once that is done, we adopt the European view of 'get them before they get you'.

No...we live....be happy and know we're ready should the white man decide that our full and true independence...Africans in charge of their bodies, minds, destiny, resources etc etc is too much for him to take.

BTW...I am from Nigeria and don't give a monkeys whether you are north, west, south or east African... African American...UK black or whatever...you are my brother/sister and although I have probably never met you...well....I don't want to sound funny here but....I feel love for you.

Anyway...before I start shedding tears [lol] I'll sign off.

Peace....oh and nice to be here!

[Edited by uzoka on 10-09-2003 at 10:39 PM]


;)

And thank you for your enlightening message. I'm glad that you finally decided to join us by sharing your wisdom. I always enjoy reading the different perspectives among our people. I was born and raised in south Florida and I always heard Black people from S. Carolina who spoke the pidgin/creole dialect called "Geechies" but never knew why. Ironically though, it was always said in a derogatory way to describe people coming from there. I'm so glad that you have explained it to me and finally, I now see that the opposite is the case...a proud people with a proud tradition and certainly better off for keeping certain Afrikan traditions than many of us whose families looked down on it, and chose to move away from it to become more like Europeans.

Peace and again, I'm glad you're here.

What a powerful piece. Thank you and welcome to our community. It was passionate, articulate and sprinkled with just the right amount of humor. :) Yes, sometimes we have to laugh at some of the things we go through as we strive to survive in America. Without it, how could we truly survive? The so-called truth that racists keep cooking up continues to be defied by the FACTS as we know them to be. We must never lose sight of that.

Your message is very powerful and as shocking as some of it is, I believe you're right. Many of us are still walking around in a sleep-state, but let's give thanks to our Creator that at the same time, many of us are not. Our eyes are WIDE open and as long as they are, the 'enemy' will never rest. Victory will never come easy for them as long as some of us are awake.

What is it that sustains us as a conscious people? Why do we continue to fight and what are we fighting for? Who is our enemy and what do they look like? Is racism the worst kind of WMD? What is the best strategy for defeating those who hate us and want to conquer over us by completely oppressing us and/or destroying us? What is the common thread that will bring us together from all parts of the globe to unite so that when it's GAME OVER, we are the victors?

Peace.

In case these questions are not rhetorical, permit me to give my own opinion as to the answers [and they are just my opinions...I don't claim to be more right or in the know than any of my brother/sisters with an opinion different to mine].



What is it that sustains us as a conscious people?

The creator, each other and the human spirit that refuses to go lay down and wither away ...even in the face of overwhelming odds.


Why do we continue to fight?

Because of our subconscious [or in some, conscious] need to honour those that have come before us that continued to fight [and die] for their [and our] physical freedom.
We on, some level or another, know we owe it to them to continue the fight for our complete freedom, ie, our psychological freedom and Africa's freedom, free from arrogant and racist European/US inteference.


What are we fighting for?

Complete Freedom.

Psychologically, we do this by reading and sharing, finding out the true and increasingly proven history of mankind's rise [ie, the African's role as author of civilisation and humanity's first teacher...mortal teacher that is].

Africa's freedom.....by uniting and resolving our petty differences to realise that we are brothers and sisters....pooling our collective talents/resources.

An African centred global network of African's working for all humanity but first and foremost for the good of Africa and her children on the continent and around the world, with strong, focused africans at the helm who cannot be bought/corrupted.


Who is our enemy and what do they look like?

Our enemy IMO, is anyone who would continue to see Africa's people marginalized and trodden on for the good of profit...western profit...with Africans themselves seeing nothing in the way of profit themselves and reduced to begging for what was already theirs in the first place.

Unfortunately in addition to Europeans, we are our own enemy too....perhaps our worst.
Africans themselves are playing perhaps the biggest role in this neo colonisation [privatization] of Africa which then goes on to allow those, with the power, to perpetuate a world view of Africans that completely disrespects and marginalizes our people.

Since independence 50 or so years ago, spineless African elites have continually allowed the west to steal from their people whilst fattening their own swiss bank accounts.

Then you have everyday ordinary Joe or Jane African who doesn't like west indians because he/she thinks they're all this and that etc.... a lack of unity basically.

Yeah, anyone who opposes African prosperity, dignity, equality....in short, all the industrialized countries that rely on theft to maintain their wealth and anyone who knowingly or unknowingly hinders African unity....either in their local communities or on the world stage.

At the 56th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights and the first preparatory committee for the World Conference against Racism during March, April and May in Geneva, Switzerland, when African countries said they wanted the issue of reparations for slavery to appear on the agenda, the western group of nations opposed, saying that that, ''NOONE wanted a retrogressive conference".

In other words, African opinion is worth nothing....we will decide in what form [if at all] moral correctness will appear.
The countries that agreed included [surprisingly to some not surprisingly IMO, Israel and Poland..even though Isreal has been privately seeking reparations for the atrocities inflicted upon them by the nazis...you'd think they'd empathize but no....this is what we're up against...a world that believes in justice...except that is, when justice interferes with profit...more importantly white corporate profit....since they fear that if we recieve too much in the way of justice for past horrors we may be in a position take back what was rightfully ours in the first place and in doing so, make less what they have stolen....GREED].

This is how they really feel....but you won't see this aired on TV or written about in the papers.
The reality is we are nothing to them.


Is racism the worst kind of WMD?

Not IMO....it is greed since that is why IMO, institutionalized hostility toward Africans exists.


What is the best strategy for defeating those who hate us and want to conquer over us by completely oppressing us and/or destroying us?

Hardcore global UNITY....coordinated efforts to build global African wealth along with measures taken to ensure that the wealth generated stays within our communities.

This coupled with efforts to oust those African 'leaders' who allow Europe a free pass, to be replaced by leaders who think of Africa and Africans first [including Africans outside the continent].


What is the common thread that will bring us together from all parts of the globe to unite so that when it's GAME OVER, we are the victors?

The fact that if we don't, we AFRICANS will lose and go gently into that night.

Once Africa is theirs, they will [to put it bluntly] kill us...my opinion.


Peace and love.

Peace Brother Isanusu,

I respect you Brother Isanusu and your opinions, as I also respect the statements of Sister NNQueen and Brother uzoka. But African ritualism like Pan African-ism has been around a long time also, and it has yet removed this oppressor off our backs or renewed the overall African psyche. A renewed African mind needed for the progress and unity of Africans worldwide.

Now, I have never dismissed the all-important spiritual dimensions of African consciousness and I do believe, ritualism in its proper context, is defiantly necessary. But I sometimes have a problem with chants about harvesting “plantains” while we’re plucking apples. Even though, we should still honor our ancestral roots.

What I am concerned about is the domestic and international infrastructures that independently support the African world. Which are, at this point, missing. This includes a secure family structure, community collectivism, communal enclaves (such as co-housing), non-grid connected utilities, alternatives to fossil fuels (regardless if we (Africans) sale this product to others temporarily), innovatively diverse food production, technologically advanced water purification plants, solar/hydro/wind produced energy and the equipment and/or devices to support such technologies. The list goes on.

I THINK WE ARE LACKING IMAGINATION, COMMON SENSE AND MOTHER WIT, NOT RITUALS.

I never forget a Kwanzaa celebration I attended, some years ago. There was plenty of ritual, music and dance. But, when it was time to make the offering, of the first fruits of the harvest, every fruit and vegetable in the ritual was from the supermarket, i.e., the “United Fruit Company”. The Africans themselves had produced nothing. This was in, indirect opposition and contradictory, to the Black Nationalist and socialist ideas, that where the foundations of the Kawaida theory, which is the ideological origin of Kwanzaa.

I had once encountered an old sister-elder, who seemed to be in her 80’s. She was very conversational and knowledgeable, when it came to Kemetic spirituality and cosmology. Though, we weren’t into, any kind of deep esoteric discussion or anything. She had a strong understanding of the ancient Kemet pantheon and its corresponding relationships to nature, symbolic colors and so forth. But I never forget what she told me as I thanked and commended her, for her knowledgeable insight. She said something like this, “ thank you baby, but I’m still trying to find out how I can use this knowledge to pay my gas, electric and water bill” and then she laughed.

I will never forget this simple, but eye opening statement made to me that day. She had connected ritual, religion and spirituality directly to the simplicity of living. Sense then I have very little tolerance for rhetorically based or ritually induced African-isms, as far as I am concern, this sister was sent by the Most High, to invoke me into using a practical African consciousness. I’ve been living, learning and relating the idea ancient applicable knowledge for years, in other words, “put your mind and hands on it and do it” or “plan your work and then work your plan” and “if you can’t do it right, than it leave alone”! I had never read a book to receive the “applicable knowledge theory”. God and the ancestor put it right in my head many years ago and now I have seen many other African thinkers, utilizing this idea. This shows how Africans have their own collective consciousness (as apposed to C. Jung’s). It would seem that direct action (not politics, rallies and protest) as it applies to the actual survival of the African man, woman and child would be a reasonably simple process, but we are more concern about ideas than life

There is esoteric knowledge that will never be written down and regardless of the deep mysterious fraternities and secret societies of African spirituality and mysticism, heaven will always control the message and choose the messenger and also, the knowledge and the one who is allowed to know and the understanding of what he knows.

I used very simple examples to explain what I call, “the applicable knowledge theory”,
because, all complexities began with simple constructs. Again, like the elders always say, “common sense and mother wit”.

Also, as far as rhetoric is concerned, there is not too much more you can do on a Discussion forum. As long as our statements are functional, blue-printable and are directly referenced to constructive application, then, they may possibly have more validity than rhetoric.


Peace,

Ashe!

Sun Ship

Sun Ship...that was amazing

Thank you, SayWord. May you stay blessed and enjoy inner peace, wherever you are and wherever you go.

I know, we all have slightly digressed from the original thread, but I would like to humbly repost this piece of wisdom for, my brother, Isanusu.



“What makes a tradition alive?

The adherents must be fully capable
of manifesting the greatness of their tradition in contemporary settings

If someone says
that they have mastered esoteric spiritual traditions,
then they must be able to manifest
the power of that spirit today

Unless the force of tradition allows us to
manifest a unique greatness
there is no reason to keep it.”

By Deng Ming – Dao





Peace,

Brother Sun Ship

My sister and brother-in-law stay in South Florida. You are a blessed sister to have been raised in such a beautiful and culturally diverse region. Yes, Geechie was used as a derogatory term. But we have to embrace our culture no matter what an unconscious person may have to say. Give thanks for the sister from Nigeria, who is not caught up in the isms and schisms of some of our bros. and sis. on the continent. Peace.

Quote: Brother Isaunu

“…you actually display disrespect and disdain for the ancient knowledge you profess.’…”

“You did not answer the question about participating in rituals.”

Peace Brother Isanusu,

The word ritual has a very broad meaning. To say you have ritualized is meaningless. For that matter, devil worshippers ritualize, Halloween and Christmas are born out of rituals and even George Bush participated in rituals at Yale (skull and bones).

I’m going to assume that you are talking about an African ritual of some particular tribe or tribes in Africa. For you haven’t really told me anything about your own unique ritual experiences.

WELL, I GUESS THE HIDING OF KNOWLEDGE IS SOMETIMES MORE
MYSTERIOUS THAN THE KNOWLEDGE ITSELF.

So, since your definition of ritual seems to be wanting and non-descriptive. Lets look at Webster’s definition of the word – ritual:

Ritual adj. [[L ritualis]] of, having the nature of, or done as a rite or rites [ritual dance] –n. 1.) a set form or system of rites, religious or otherwise 2.) the observance of set forms or rites, as in public worship

Rite n. [[ME < L ritus < IE *rei-, var. of base *ar-, to join, fit …]] 1.) a ceremonial or formal, solemn act, observance, or procedure in accordance with prescribed rule or custom, as in religious use [marriage rites] 2.) any formal, customary observance, practice, or procedure [the rites of courtship]

Hmm-mmm, lets’s see (?)

I’m sure based upon these definitions I probably have been in quite a few rituals in my life. But, let’s go further. Look brother, I am an African in the American experience. Everything I have become, spiritually, psychologically and socially has come from the hands and mouths of my ancestors. For, I understand to get to Africa proper, you must go through Mississippi, first. The rivers of this country (Turtle Island) can talk to a spiritually aware Black man as clear as the Nile. Herbs picked from the gardens of my African elders, right here, can heal me like the herbs of Africa, and exotic lands I’ve never seen.

TO FIND MYSELF, I WILL NOT ABANDON MYSELF.

The first African to tell me of ethereal visions was my black African American grandmother. My dead ancestors who died from hard work and lynchings speak to me, in ways you can only imagine.

RITUALS ARE A DIRECT CULTURAL RESPONSE TO THE AFRICAN’S STORY, NO MATTER WHERE THEY FIND THEIR SELVES.

THOSE WHO TRULY RITUALIZE, DO NOT CALL THEIR RITUALS, "RITUALS".
(but we will continue using this word, for contextual clarity)

I have so-called "ritualized" with many African American musicians, artist and dancers, as we have held up the spiritual and cultural traditions of our ancestors, right here. Even if you go to Africa and sit at the feet of a particular shaman, you will still, have to journey within.
Are you going to tell me that their spirit or truth is greater than that of your own given traditions and teachers? Can you tell me that, the Lucumi of Cuba have less of a spiritual tradition than the Yoruba in Nigeria? Did not, Shango, Yemoja and Oshun travel with them in their souls? Why do you think the Orisha’s still possess the shouting sisters in sanctified churches?

There have practitioners of the different ways of invocation, who have been able to sit in black churches and identify the saint or deity that is possessing or riding the parishioner, just by watching their behavior and movements.

Are you going to tell me that my late father who came from the hill country of Mississippi, wasn’t still in the ritual traditions of his ancestors when he was burning fifes from cane and stretching skins for drums and celebrating who he was as an African man through song and dance. Matter of fact, in places in your own African culture, right here in America, the chain has been unbroken. But, if you are always looking for your culture to be wrapped in kente cloth and cowry shells, you are short minded, in your understanding of yourself. YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO TO INDIA TO RECEIVE ENLIGHTENMENT AND DON’T HAVE TO GO AFRICA TO RITUALIZE YOUR ANCESTORS.

Believe me, brother, it’s my ancestors, who have the infrastructural nurturing of Africa and Africans on my mind. They are constantly reminding me, "if not you, then who"? I owe this DIRECTLY, to them.

THE PEOPLE CAN’T DANCE WHEN THEY’RE HUNGRY AND WE CAN’T AFFORD TO TURN OUR FIREWOOD INTO ALTARS WHEN WE’RE COLD AND HOMELESS.

AFRICA, IYA WA NU!
ASHE!!!!!!!!

Sun Ship

P.S. –

If I was on the moon,
I would still be an African
and I would ritualize and work my knowledge and science
as it applies to my experiences and environment.

“…some traces were retained of the former group life,
and the chief remaining institution was the priest or medicine man.
He early appeared on the plantation and found his function
as the healer of the sick, the interpreter of the unknown,
the comforter of the sorrowing, the supernatural avenger of wrong
and the one who rudely, but picturesquely, expressed
the longing, disappointment and resentment
of a stolen and oppressed people.”

- W. E. B. DuBois, “The Religion of the American Negro,” New World IX (Dec. 1900), 618.

Ashe,

Sun Ship

I can not say that I am either. I what my parents are my mom is mixed {white and black} and my dad is Puerto Rican. Whatever you consider that I am loving it.

Peace ShortyLove21,

You have no problem calling your father, Puerto Rican. You know that one your grandparents is, obviously, White and the other is, obviously Black. But, you are indecisive about WHAT YOU ARE. Don’t you know that Puerto Ricans are Afro-Hispanic (African-Hispanic) people, regardless if many of them admit it or not. Even the World Almanac agrees with this, reality. There are many African Hispanics (including Puerto Ricans) who totally identify with, embrace and ritualize their African heritage. The question initiating this thread is more than about race or nationality.

Ashe,

Sun Ship

To be honest with you I really don't know what to say. I read a lot of these post and this subject seems to be a serious matter. There are a lot of things that have come across my mind when reading the different post. Also my way of thinking comes from my experiences with Africans and different articles about Africans views of black americans.

I personally consider myself as an African American simply because I want to show honor and respect to my ancestors. I think about the many sacrifices that they made for me and I appreciate what they have done. They practically built this country but us African Americans remain at the bottom. Our ancestors built this country and the white man took control. I feel that we should way more power then what we have:(

Even though I see myself as an African American I have a hard time adding the word American. I think about American history and I not proud of it. Why should I say that I American? I think about all the troubles that we have had since we have been here. Life in American from hasn't been all that great. Until this very day life isn't all that great. No matter what we accomplish here in America we will never be at the same level as everyone else. America somewhat has made us who we are but I still don't feel that I am apart of America. I don't think that America is the land of the free.

I have read many articles about this topic and Africans view regarding it. In most articles that I have read Africans do not see African Americans as Africans but they consider the Black people from Latin America as Africans. I don't see how Black Latins who have been far away from Africa as long as we have could be considered more of a African then us. That is what threw me for a loop. I have tried my best to develop relationships with Africans and I have been successful with 10 at the most who see us as family. The others have told me that they don't like African Americans and that they don't want to have anything to with us. Some of them have told me that their parents teach them to act that way towards us.
:maddd:

I don't have any hard feelings towards Africans because I feel that I am apart of them. When they hurt I hurt. When they cry I cry. I don't want them to suffer but to live and have productive lives.

When I think about the things that I stated above it makes me wonder why I should consider myself as an African. For one they don't see me as one and most of them don't like us. Why should I say that I am one when I am not accepted by them? I have nothing but love for my fellow African brothers and sisters. I love Africa as if I was born there and I try to learn as much as I can about it. Africa is my ancestors starting point and I want to learn about the Continent.

I am not accepted here in America and also by the Africans. It makes me wonder where my place is in this world. Just because I had bad experiences with Africans I won't allow them to change my mind as to who I am. I am not confused and I know who I am and that is African American. I proud of who I am and would not change for the world Those questions came to my mind when I read those articles and faced those situations.

Also I can't say I haven't been accepted by Africans. I have been accepted by an Ethiopian lady who defined my name. That meant a whole lot to me. She is the one person that I will always love and respect. She shows no favortism she loves everyone. I will never forget her. :kiss:

There is something that I have been trying to get through, with these posts, to Africans who were exiled here, in America, via the slave trade and that is, you are a direct descendent to YOUR ancestors. Regardless if other Africans, who are alive in the continent today, respect or recognize you, or not. I’m sure the hope and anguish of our ancestors was, that we would never forget from whence we came and our spiritual connection to them. As I believe, Amiri Baraka once said, “we didn’t get off the ships from Africa singing St. James Infirmary (a well-known Jazz tune, at the turn of the last century, circa 1900). Original African culture, through trials and tribulations stayed alive in the United States for centuries. Field anthropologist and ethnologist are constantly finding African carved drums, canes and other symbolic objects, proving ongoing African cultural and spiritual expressions, during and after slavery. There was African dancing and rituals continuing, on a weekly basis, in New Orleans’ Congo Square, up until the 1900’s and we know that, the Voodum religion, spiritual continuum is relevant and practiced, till this present day.

The African grave yard, in New York, is probably, just one of many Archaeological finds, which are constantly defining the continuous African presence in America, regardless, of the deracinating effectiveness, of the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. These ancestors in New York, were born African, lived as Africans, died, funeralized and buried as Africans. The Archaeological evidence proves this assertion.

THEY DIDN’T NEED ANYBODYS APPROVAL, TO BE WHO THEY WERE!


We OWE OUR ANCESTORS the continuity of respect, culture, identity and African spiritual invocation, as it applies to our plight, environment and consciousness. As I have said before:

OUR ANCESTORS WHO LIVED AND DIED FOR OUR SURVIVAL, DID NOT, LEAVE US IN THE CHARGE OF THOSE WHO DID NOT!!!!!!!!

So we are an unique community of Africans in America, regardless of how other Africans feel, and our contributions to the overall Pan African world have been without question, extraordinary and renowned, through out the world. Do I need to list our inventions or cultural influences? And for Africans in or from the continent to deny their connection to us, in a positive light, would be insane!

So be who you are, so God can know you, when heaven prepares to bless and redeem, it’s first creation.

Peace and Ashe, my brothers and sisters,

Sun Ship

What about someone who is half black and half white? Where do they fit in?

Peace SayWord,

I will repeat, what I have said earlier, “The question initiating this thread is more than about race or nationality.” This is about spiritual, psychological and cultural people-hood and not the Europeans erroneous and manipulative paradigm of race.

Peace Sun Ship

ok

Originally posted by Sun Ship
There is something that I have been trying to get through, with these posts, to Africans who were exiled here, in America, via the slave trade and that is, you are a direct descendent to YOUR ancestors. Regardless if other Africans, who are alive in the continent today, respect or recognize you, or not. I’m sure the hope and anguish of our ancestors was, that we would never forget from whence we came and our spiritual connection to them. As I believe, Amiri Baraka once said, “we didn’t get off the ships from Africa singing St. James Infirmary (a well-known Jazz tune, at the turn of the last century, circa 1900). Original African culture, through trials and tribulations stayed alive in the United States for centuries. Field anthropologist and ethnologist are constantly finding African carved drums, canes and other symbolic objects, proving ongoing African cultural and spiritual expressions, during and after slavery. There was African dancing and rituals continuing, on a weekly basis, in New Orleans’ Congo Square, up until the 1900’s and we know that, the Voodum religion, spiritual continuum is relevant and practiced, till this present day.

The African grave yard, in New York, is probably, just one of many Archaeological finds, which are constantly defining the continuous African presence in America, regardless, of the deracinating effectiveness, of the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. These ancestors in New York, were born African, lived as Africans, died, funeralized and buried as Africans. The Archaeological evidence proves this assertion.

THEY DIDN’T NEED ANYBODYS APPROVAL, TO BE WHO THEY WERE!


We OWE OUR ANCESTORS the continuity of respect, culture, identity and African spiritual invocation, as it applies to our plight, environment and consciousness. As I have said before:

OUR ANCESTORS WHO LIVED AND DIED FOR OUR SURVIVAL, DID NOT, LEAVE US IN THE CHARGE OF THOSE WHO DID NOT!!!!!!!!

So we are an unique community of Africans in America, regardless of how other Africans feel, and our contributions to the overall Pan African world have been without question, extraordinary and renowned, through out the world. Do I need to list our inventions or cultural influences? And for Africans in or from the continent to deny their connection to us, in a positive light, would be insane!

So be who you are, so God can know you, when heaven prepares to bless and redeem, it’s first creation.

Peace and Ashe, my brothers and sisters,

Sun Ship

I understand what you are saying. Why is it that Africans dislike it when African Americans see themselves as African? When a black person from Latin America says it it's okay. I don't think that it is fair to make differences and it makes me feel that they are nit pickin with African Americans. I read this article about Nigerean Women joining forces with Black Cubans in America with some kind of religion. I think that is of total disrespect because we were born here and we should have been included as well. What is that Africans have against us? Should I even worry about? :confused: :confused:

Dont worry
most Africans are so busy tryna get their green card they detest anybody trying to remind them of what they wanna forget and the story goes
on, everybody so confused, how can one not
know they aRe African.
Bottom line wether
black, white, blue or green the problem is
PATRIOTISM even conscious blacks have it deep in the subconsious mind branded through years of slavery.

I predict at the end of this Judgement day
there will be left in America those who bought
a dream(mainly from everywhere but Amerikkka)
and those who were too startled by reality
that they missed the last boat.
One way or another these opportunities to
link and invite a passage out shall become
fewer and fewer because its becoming a battle
to express the simplest of realities truths to
our sheople. Remember its happened
before and we think not in my lifetime
Oh no!
Think again!


Pillar of salt!








*

Originally posted by Sun Ship
Peace SayWord,

I will repeat, what I have said earlier, “The question initiating this thread is more than about race or nationality.” This is about spiritual, psychological and cultural people-hood and not the Europeans erroneous and manipulative paradigm of race.

Peace Sun Ship

For me, this is the best answer I've read so far in this very long thread. It gets to the heart of the question and bares the deep psychological construct of how we think of ourselves when we answer it.

Penetrate the superficial layer...go way beyond the obvious...put aside what you thought you knew and dig deeper into it by travelling through time into the past...past your parents...grandparents...great-grandparents...until you've crossed the sea of oppression which caused you to forget and become re-connected with the original essence of who you are...thereby will your true identity be revealed.

Most of us in America have mixed blood running through our veins but that still is no reason to be confused particularly if we overstand, primarily, how it is that it came to be that way. Many people live in denial. Call it like you feel it!

My opinion...Peace.

IMO,

The main thing is at the end of the day is that we resolve to recognise our common origins and begin to make things work economically, globally and locally, in favour of the Children of the Sun, globally

We either win the war or sit around looking for names and die!

I don't profess to possess a complete knowledge of the genocidal logistics involved but I've read enough to know they want us dead.

That's the bottom line.....our priority should be to eventually physically distance ourselves from whites as much as is possible which would be to return to Africa....and soon.

While we're arguing over titles or expending energy being drawn in by such emotive decoy tactics as 'ghettopoly' or the confederate flag et al, the enemy is getting ready to kill us.

That's not an over dramatization of the reality of the [our]situation,that's a fact and it needs to be stressed repeatedly

It has been in the minds of whites since they first laid eyes on us and since early on in the last century, those in a position to make real those murderous aspirations, have worked tirelessly towards accomplishing exactly that, and they're close.

The European is besotted with greed and furious jealousy, he will use those whom he regards as his enemy to kill his own to ensure that those fruits remain his.
They will not deign to share the fruits of the earth and he must be defeated before we can begin the process of healing and rediscovery.

I won't define the word 'defeat' in this context because that is up to the enemy himself but more than likely, he will not accept any less than complete conquest; he will not stop.

That's where AFRICANS as a political force should concentrate their energies in my opinion....

Thanks and Peace.......

Quote: Sister-warrior, NNQueen :bowdown:

“Penetrate the superficial layer...go way beyond the obvious...put aside what you thought you knew and dig deeper into it by travelling through time into the past...past your parents...grandparents...great-grandparents...until you've crossed the sea of oppression which caused you to forget and become re-connected with the original essence of who you are...thereby will your true identity be revealed.

Most of us in America have mixed blood running through our veins but that still is no reason to be confused particularly if we overstand, primarily, how it is that it came to be that way. Many people live in denial. Call it like you feel it!”

_______________________________________________


Sister-warrior NNQueen, fearless professor of truth and insight, you have nailed this thread to the cross and redeemed its rhetorically infested soul. You’ve turned a moth into a butterfly, with your very philosophic and super-consciously inspired response, my sister.


__________________________
__________________________


Quote: uzoka:

“The main thing is at the end of the day is that we resolve to recognise our common origins and begin to make things work economically, globally and locally, in favour of the Children of the Sun, globally

We either win the war or sit around looking for names and die!”


“While we're arguing over titles or expending energy being drawn in by such emotive decoy tactics as 'ghettopoly' or the confederate flag et al, the enemy is getting ready to kill us.”

Repeat uzoka’s quote:

“WE EITHER WIN THE WAR OR SIT AROUND LOOKING FOR NAMES AND DIE!””

________________________________
________________________________


READ BOTH OF THESE POST CAREFULLY BLACK PEOPLE AND NEVER SAY, THAT NO ONE HAS EVER TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, FOR TRUTH IS CONSTANLY BEING REVEALED!!!!



ASHE!

Sun Ship

________________________________
________________________________

P.S. - IMPORTANT NOTE!! –

HAPPY EARTH DAY, Sister-warrior NNQueen :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Like I said in another post, you are constantly on point, with your opinions, like a stinging bee and a sharpened dagger!!

"May the Sun shine upon the crown of Sistah NNQueen :bowdown:, one of New Africa’s Black spiritual professors of truth! Let her tongue be like a sword from Heaven. Her mind, like treasures revealed in the chambers of Aset. May she dine with gods and heavenly beings, on the celestial boat of Ra. And let every word from her mouth and sweetened lips; be swift and subtle like an avenging serpent, protecting her brood.”

I respect you Sistah and I want you to enjoy, many more, years to come! :bowdown:

Peace, Love and Ashe

Sun :)

Brother Sun Ship...our respect is mutual! Thank you for the acknowledgment...I receive it with the utmost of humility for you too are very generous with sharing your knowledge among us and I value it and respect you for that!

Peace, Love and may you continue to prosper beyond your expectations!

Queenie :)

The SISTERS in this forum are lighting the intellectual FIRE! NNQUEEN and UZOKA thanks for the feminine P.O.V. The Mother Spirit of our ancestors is alive and well within you. Us BROTHERS are holding the forum up with NO PROBLEM! Peace to fathers of the NU Afrikan movement/nation. We are ASCENDING... I feel it, and I know you all do too. Let me know what's on your minds at this point in the forum. Has any new ground been reached?

(OOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM)

I'm an african by both blood and residence and it's not about the name at all!
If you came to my land which by virtue is also your land,i wouldn't reject you nor will my brothers and sisters.
To us whether you call yourself African American or just African is your prerogative.
The unity happened the day you were born.
The reason why there isn't much unity right now it's coz we don't know much about each other's life...
how can we unite when i know your story and you don't know mine?
or when you know my story anf i don't know yours?
We have let media dictate what we have to know,instead of getting the info our way.
I mean we are living in the information age,aren't we?
Right now i should say most africans who live in the continent know so much about african american culture(or just american culture) than you know about us....it's sad!
I mean we grew up watching black american comedy,listening to r&b,hip hop.
I don't know why it was like that,i guess we felt proud that the chains of slavery didn't kill your spirit!

#Most dads have classics from Marvin Gaye,Al Green,Barry White....
#We also watched Rudy in The Cosby show,Different strokes,
Janet in Good times
#We r still watching Oprah & Dr Phil
#We watch MTV,surivor,the amazing race,we also have our own big brother,
we watch fear factor
Most people have floetry's album even Toxic....you get the picture

And i'm talking about common folk..
This is probably news to you

CNN has painted a different picture from what we as Africans know.I have never seen 90% of the stuff they show on CNN about africa.
And i'm not saying they make the stuff up...they just go hunting for the bad coz hey,bad has always been equated with Africa.
I am not rich,my parents are not rich and most of my friends are just middle class but i guess the media has concluded that nobody wants to see an average african gal a living normal life like most people in the 1st world countries.

We have had celebrities from the US(usher,oprah,sisqo,the fubu guys,india arie,montell jordan,foxy brown etc) come to africa and they've all been received well.
Coz we know you didn't leave the land by choice.

So in a nutshell....what makes you african,is your acceptance and conciousness about the land in entirety![/COLOR]

Put me down for Black and proud.

Greetings and Welcome Andreattah!! :wave: What an honor it is to have you join us in the discussion! The message you impart is beautiful and sobering. It's sad but you force me to admit that I don't know as much about you and our culture as I would like to and probably need to know. It hasn't been all that long since I recognized who I was and learned to love and respect where I originally came from. Much of that self-love and desire to want to know was robbed from me along with my freedom. Our history was rewritten by foreigners and lies were created to replace the truth.

Most of us were programmed to believe the lies that were taught to us in their schools. Thanks to many of our great African American leaders, we have fought hard and long and the truth couldn't be concealed forever. So slowly but steadily our true legacy as a people has been surfacing and is now being made available to our people in many places, including this one. So it's no wonder that I didn't recognize you and the motherland for so long but I'm thankful that I didn't remain ignorant for the rest of my life.

As you probably already know there are many misconceptions that African Americans have about continental Africans. Separating the myth from reality has not been an easy task for many. There is a common belief that continental Africans don't like or want to associate with African Americans and resent the fact that many of us claim Africa as our "homeland". I don't know how or why this ever became an issue and would love for you or anyone you know to shed some light with us on that topic if you could.

The great manipulators are working hard still to divide us. We need to put an end to that once and for all and come together as a community and be a force to be reckoned with. I don't know how you feel about it but much has been lost over the past 400+ years in terms of our connection and we need to put an end to the pain of our separation.

When you really sit down and think about it, I wonder whether there was a divine reason for our separation and could the reason be put to our greatest advantage rather than our continuing struggle? African Americans have lived with the beast and learned his ways and know his secrets. Could it be possible that this information can serve us better than we realize?

Anyway, it's great to have you here and we hope you decide to interact with us on a regular basis. If you haven't already, check out our Panafrican Forum and contribute to some of those threads too. You will see we have some very heavy brothers and sisters that dialogue there regularly on a number of issues and ideas.

If you like what you see, consider becoming a Premium Member too. Spread the word among family and friends where you are and have them join us as well. We'd love to have you.

Peace,
Queenie

WE ARE THE SUN PEOPLE.

wow, alot of people with the african....



nothing can make me say im African.....

proudly say im African American, proud of my culture, and proud of my nation

i think tavis smiley advocating us calling ourselves black. although i never stopped. i prefer the term black for more than one reason but also because it has just one syllable.

tavis or some other black leader said we need to classify ourselves as black because now with the many numbers (and growing) of african immigrating and becoming citizens, they are able to use the term "african-american". meaning they become and are recorded as african-americans when using government programs such as setaside programs. in short, we, black folk, will have even less dollars available for such programs.

wow, alot of people with the african....



nothing can make me say im African.....

proudly say im African American, proud of my culture, and proud of my nation

Seriously, what culture are you referring to?

Seriously, what culture are you referring to?


excuse me?

I am Simply an African........... In America

My folks come from East Africa, so that is the culture that I will go by.

I need to do a bit more digging through family history before I can tell you anything else.

I might have been born in America, but I have Southern U.S./East African Blood.

excuse me?

No offense Black man.... just asking.


Is it the pre middle-passage culture that the vast majority of us don't have a clue about (not saying you don't)?

Is it the post slavery culture where the vast majority of us have been indoctrinated into European ideals?

So my question is this, what culture are you referring to relative to Black people of this country.

* I am not saying that we are without culture, I just want to know what you are referring to.*

My race : Black
(It is incorrect to identify one's race using a nationality; there is no french or german or african or american race)
My nationality: united states
(Those who use American are technically incorrect because our nationality/citizenship is that of the united states; when you ask their nationality Black People who are from countries in Afrika identify themselves by the country they're from, while we call them Afrikans out of not knowing better)
My culture: Afrikan
(I choose to identify with all Black People on the planet; therefore I use Afrikan to designate my culture, since Afrikan Civilization is the oldest on the planet and ALL other cultures came from it)

BLACK, ARIKAN, AFRIKAN AMERICAN IS FINE W/ ME. THE WORD EUROPEAN DESCRIBES WHITE PEOPLE, AS AFRIKAN DESCRIBES BLK PEOPLE. DIDNT AFRIKANS REFER TO THEM SELVES AS BLK BEFORE CONTACT W/ EOROPEANS ANYWAY?

WEATHER YOUR FROM KENYA, OR EGYPT, OR GHANA YOUR FROM AFRIKA, THE SAME GOES FOR AA'S. HOWEVER AFRIKAN IS MORE TECHNICAL FOR ME, BLK HOLDS A CERTAIN POWER.

No offense Black man.... just asking.


Is it the pre middle-passage culture that the vast majority of us don't have a clue about (not saying you don't)?

Is it the post slavery culture where the vast majority of us have been indoctrinated into European ideals?

So my question is this, what culture are you referring to relative to Black people of this country.

* I am not saying that we are without culture, I just want to know what you are referring to.*

Greetings Chucky...have we met yet? If not, please let me welcome you to the community! :wave:

You pose a very interesting question and given your list of two choices, it's a slippery one. :spin: If you haven't noticed yet, check out this thread on what is our culture and feel free to enter the discussion if you haven't already.

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27088

I hope you find it interesting.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Is the name that a person answers to indicative of how they think and thus behave?

Are there any significant differences between the terms "African" and "African American" and "Black"?

Discussion has spanned the vast cavern between race/heritage/culture to the number of syllabels in a word.

We've read comments about the political and economic impact assigned to words and their different meanings. But what does it all boil down to really? Is it all politically based?

According to the federal Office of Management and Budget, the words "African American" and "Black" are synonymous: "People's having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa." They even allow for terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" used in addition to Black or African American.

What statement do you make when you answer to the word "African", or "African American" or "Black"? What message do you want sent when you call yourself by those names because as you can see, it doesn't matter to the federal government.

Queenie :spinstar:

what is an AMERICAN???(smile!) Hmmmm?????

Even as I say that, I must admit that I am one, as I am not fully an African person, possessed of the full fruits of my heritage. I do not speak an African language, nor worship African Gods, nor dance African dances, but I owe most of what I do culturally to an African history, heritage, and legacy... I would never relinquish that, and will forever cling tenaciously(as my ancestors did)to that which makes me uniquely me, and us uniquely us...

I will never give it up to dwell on the treacheries of the past, and all that I do I do in the best interests of my brothers and sisters on the planet, because I cannot separate myself from them for best or for worse. Yes, sister Happy69, I have said on another ocassion that I feel you on a deep and visceral level, that understanding that Africans in the United States have walked the point for other Africans around the world, but that due to logistics and other factors, does not mean Africans from other points on the globe have not done great things which reflectected their love for me, and other Africans in the world. We were HERE, in the belly of the wickedest of all beasts, thus we did what we did out of necessity...

Other Africans in Diaspora came, and DID in fact contribute mightily to our struggle in the United States. Therefore, those Africans, who hailed from Puerto Rico, like Schomburg, the Dominican Republic, like Carlos Cooks, who hailed from Haiti, like Toussaint, Who hailed from Barbados, like Crispus Attucks and John B. Russwurm, Who hailed from Jamaica, Like Marcus Mosiah Garvey, who hailed from Cuba, like Mario Bauza and Chano Pozo, who hailed from Antigua, like Z. Alexander Lubby...are my heroes, and I value their contributions on the same level as so-called native born Africans of the United States... Dr. Marta Moreno Vega, Felipe Luciano, Professor Luis Reyes Rivera, are all Afro Puerto Ricans who wear that label proudly, and who have given unwavering support to African Americans, and I just cannot see how we can slap these beautiful folks in the face by not recognizing their contributions to our struggle... sorry, aint doin' dat...

Africans from the continent...Africans in Diaspora... Hard cold facts are that tribalistic antagonisms are a thing that has existed on the continent for forever... That has been our downfall as a people... One day we in diaspora will understand that we are perpetuating one of our greatest weaknesses as a people, one which the oppressors have used to great disadvantage to us... My plea to you, sister Happy69, is that even if you have issues with those who sold us into slavery, try not to talk about it so much(wink-wink!) It is this kind of talk which provides - and has through the centureis - the white man with great grist for his wickedness... We need to get a grip on that, and keep our bidness to ourselves... Sometimes I believe that all of our showy loud talk in the 1960's made us so tailor made for any counter intelligence program... We are so loud, emotional, and expressive on a cultural level, but when you're trying to build something quietly, it is detrimental... While we are loudly proclaiming this and that, the humble, quiet Chinese 'bout ready to take over the world...

Excuse my rambling... I am a man of African Descent, and most proud of that - loud, emotional, and all(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

what is an AMERICAN???(smile!) Hmmmm?????

Even as I say that, I must admit that I am one, as I am not fully an African person, possessed of the full fruits of my heritage. I do not speak an African language, nor worship African Gods, nor dance African dances, but I owe most of what I do culturally to an African history, heritage, and legacy... I would never relinquish that, and will forever cling tenaciously(as my ancestors did)to that which makes me uniquely me, and us uniquely us...

I will never give it up to dwell on the treacheries of the past, and all that I do I do in the best interests of my brothers and sisters on the planet, because I cannot separate myself from them for best or for worse. Yes, sister Happy69, I have said on another ocassion that I feel you on a deep and visceral level, that understanding that Africans in the United States have walked the point for other Africans around the world, but that due to logistics and other factors, does not mean Africans from other points on the globe have not done great things which reflectected their love for me, and other Africans in the world. We were HERE, in the belly of the wickedest of all beasts, thus we did what we did out of necessity...

Other Africans in Diaspora came, and DID in fact contribute mightily to our struggle in the United States. Therefore, those Africans, who hailed from Puerto Rico, like Schomburg, the Dominican Republic, like Carlos Cooks, who hailed from Haiti, like Toussaint, Who hailed from Barbados, like Crispus Attucks and John B. Russwurm, Who hailed from Jamaica, Like Marcus Mosiah Garvey, who hailed from Cuba, like Mario Bauza and Chano Pozo, who hailed from Antigua, like Z. Alexander Lubby...are my heroes, and I value their contributions on the same level as so-called native born Africans of the United States... Dr. Marta Moreno Vega, Felipe Luciano, Professor Luis Reyes Rivera, are all Afro Puerto Ricans who wear that label proudly, and who have given unwavering support to African Americans, and I just cannot see how we can slap these beautiful folks in the face by not recognizing their contributions to our struggle... sorry, aint doin' dat...

Africans from the continent...Africans in Diaspora... Hard cold facts are that tribalistic antagonisms are a thing that has existed on the continent for forever... That has been our downfall as a people... One day we in diaspora will understand that we are perpetuating one of our greatest weaknesses as a people, one which the oppressors have used to great disadvantage to us... My plea to you, sister Happy69, is that even if you have issues with those who sold us into slavery, try not to talk about it so much(wink-wink!) It is this kind of talk which provides - and has through the centureis - the white man with great grist for his wickedness... We need to get a grip on that, and keep our bidness to ourselves... Sometimes I believe that all of our showy loud talk in the 1960's made us so tailor made for any counter intelligence program... We are so loud, emotional, and expressive on a cultural level, but when you're trying to build something quietly, it is detrimental... While we are loudly proclaiming this and that, the humble, quiet Chinese 'bout ready to take over the world...

Excuse my rambling... I am a man of African Descent, and most proud of that - loud, emotional, and all(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Then again the chinese man wasn't bought, sold, slaughtered and raped like cattle. i feel ur point though isaiah,

Isnt the fact that the selling into slavery of blacks by blacks is just another wht strategy anyhow? A. a strategy to erase the past of psychotic genocydal habits that r whts way of bus. b. a strategy to make it seem we were "savage" (their favorite word) so it is ok what they did since we were doing it anyway.

yes there were SOME CHIEFS & TRIBES that sold their pow's , or just plain sold out. but it wasn't as wide spread as they want u to believe it was. i mean look at now adays, u have house negroes like jc watts, conned dum-leeza-rice, colin- kissin'- powell, armstrong williams, kofi annan Ect. but r these puppets i mean people representative of blk's in the us(or the world)??? hardly, they r a minority, as were the sell outs who sold us.....

Brother Isaiah, you delivered a very passionate speech. I agree that we shouldn't shun our fellow Africans in the diaspora who are supportive of African Americans and learn the importance of differentiating between those Blacks who are for us and those who are against us. We shouldn't adopt the same thinking process of our oppressors by lumping us all in the same boat together just because we might look alike.

There's something else you wrote and I know Sister Happy has also mentioned in other discussions and that is about us not always telling all our "bidness". You stated that you "sometimes think that all of our showy loud talk in the 1960's made us so tailor made for any counter intelligence program" and I also believe this to be true.

Black people regained their voices in the 1960s as a result of the hostile and volatile climate at the time and the racial unrest that had reached its peak and spilled over among Blacks. We have SO MUCH to say and we're saying it loud that we are BLACK AND PROUD!

Can you imagine what it felt like as a people to have your voices shut down for so long due to racism that to finally have them back must have been something short of a miracle.

You've probably read and seen the same stories I have about when we were enslaved, how we couldn't speak our opinions in public, couldn't look white people straight in the eyes, were reduced to shuffling with our shoulders slumped over looking down at the ground when we walked. How dehumanizing it must have felt like to be treated as though you were less than nothing.

Personally, I think we have every right to be as loud as we want to be because of that period in our history when we couldn't be anything but "slaves" to other people. Yes, we are emotional, and expressive and passionate on a cultural level. That's the beauty that I see in our people because it's ingrained in our very nature to be that and so much more.

My point is, I don't believe we should feel badly about being the way we are, be made to think that something is wrong with us because of it or feel the need to apologize to anyone about it. So often we're advised that we should TEMPER our behavior in public--especially around white folk. We're bold and bright in every sense of those words and I think if we were ever to lose those qualities about us, the world would not be as exciting or energetic.

But, having said that, I also understand what you mean about when you're trying to build something in the midst of and in spite of a hostile living environment, we should be smart about it and do our building quietly! "Shhhhh"... :)

There too I think we draw on our history as African Americans because we know alot about how to do that as well. We are masters of covert activity and learned it well during times when it was "legal" to kill a Black person simply for being taught how to read and write. Remember the "underground" railroad.

I don't know that we should take a page out of the book of "how to" for the Chinese or other Asians who are quiet about their political agenda. Not trying to stereotype them or anything, but they tend to be quieter as a people period. We're not like that and for us to suddenly become "quiet", I think, would send a red flag up immediately among those watching us and they'd know something was up and begin watching us even more closely. So being quiet may not work for us as it might for Asians but there may be other strategies that we can come up with that could work to our advantage. If Harriett Tubman and gang can figure it out, we can too.

JMHO...Queenie :spinstar:

Sista Queenie and Brotha Therious, I dig ya, I hear ya, I feel ya! As my man Isaac Hayes would say, "If you feel like ya wanna scream, and screamin' is the only thang...Screeeam On!(smile!)

I don't advocate that Africans give up our culture - some other stuff we do, but NEVER our culture... As you said, Sista Queenie, the world would be a most dull and boring place if Africans suddenly decided to act like the Chinese... My point, and I know you understood it, was that we need to build without making a splash - just do it, and shet up... And that not because the White Man is listening, because he gone be listening and looking and surveiling us no matter how we go about it... It's really about energy, what we do with it, how we utilize it, how we manage it... Frankly, I would love to see the look on the White man's face as we are building our power, our infrastructure... He loves to see us rapping and making big, rousing speeches, and nothing gets done... He loves that, so we're only giving him what he loves to see from us, what he expects from us... I would like that man to see the opposite from us, and there's nothing he can do about it... That is my dream(smile!)

Having said that, Queenie, I agree that we had, and continue to have, a great deal to say and express as a people... I bid that we continue to speak our unique truths to the world, because that is the only way we can change the world - by transmission of our ideas to others, as well as, our own... But, as COINTELPRO proved, sometimes you've got to put some shade on your game - you aint got the luxury of gving the man your address, because you're at war... Good generals will NEVER give the enemy his location, his plans, his strategies... I believe I read in Sun Tzu's The Art of War, that a good strategy to assume when your opponent is stronger than you are is to be everywhere he is NOT! To attack him where he least expects it... That is the strategy being used in Iraq, that was the strategy used by the Viet Namese...

It is no shame to learn from the strategies of others, how they defeated their enemies... It is no shame to build a better car or television set by assimilating the enemy's technology, and improving on it, as the Japanese did... It is no shame to build the best hotels in the United States when you are locked out, as the Jews did... As Africans we need to borrow from others as they have borrowed from us, and we should not be so arrogant to believe that that is a shame - they didn't...

Here's one, I believe that if Africans studied the Chinese diet, their macrobiotic system, which is basically a Way of Life strategy, we wouldn't have the issues we have with hypertension, diabetes, clogged arteries, renal disease, prostate cancer... I love African culture, man, but I believe other cultures actually have something to offer us... Life affirming, life sustaining cultural exchange is what I am talking about here...

For whatever it is worth, there is a Zen saying, which I try to keep close to me, because of it's humble simplicity: Empty Your Cup... It simply means that one who's cup is always filled, has no space for which they can ADD anything else... That includes knowledge, wisdom and understanding...

Peace!
Isaiah

Greetings Chucky...have we met yet? If not, please let me welcome you to the community! :wave:

You pose a very interesting question and given your list of two choices, it's a slippery one. :spin: If you haven't noticed yet, check out this thread on what is our culture and feel free to enter the discussion if you haven't already.

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27088

I hope you find it interesting.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Nice to "meet" you. I will view that thread.

Thanks

isaiah u speak the words of truth. the best way to beat ur enemey, is 2 become ur enemey. assume his mind state(THAT SIMPLY MEANS KNOW THY ENEMEY NOT ACT LIKE HIM ALWAYS STAY TRUE TO YA SELF) , thats so real back man

Sista Queenie and Brotha Therious, I dig ya, I hear ya, I feel ya! As my man Isaac Hayes would say, "If you feel like ya wanna scream, and screamin' is the only thang...Screeeam On!(smile!)

I don't advocate that Africans give up our culture - some other stuff we do, but NEVER our culture... As you said, Sista Queenie, the world would be a most dull and boring place if Africans suddenly decided to act like the Chinese... My point, and I know you understood it, was that we need to build without making a splash - just do it, and shet up... And that not because the White Man is listening, because he gone be listening and looking and surveiling us no matter how we go about it... It's really about energy, what we do with it, how we utilize it, how we manage it... Frankly, I would love to see the look on the White man's face as we are building our power, our infrastructure... He loves to see us rapping and making big, rousing speeches, and nothing gets done... He loves that, so we're only giving him what he loves to see from us, what he expects from us... I would like that man to see the opposite from us, and there's nothing he can do about it... That is my dream(smile!)

Having said that, Queenie, I agree that we had, and continue to have, a great deal to say and express as a people... I bid that we continue to speak our unique truths to the world, because that is the only way we can change the world - by transmission of our ideas to others, as well as, our own... But, as COINTELPRO proved, sometimes you've got to put some shade on your game - you aint got the luxury of gving the man your address, because you're at war... Good generals will NEVER give the enemy his location, his plans, his strategies... I believe I read in Sun Tzu's The Art of War, that a good strategy to assume when your opponent is stronger than you are is to be everywhere he is NOT! To attack him where he least expects it... That is the strategy being used in Iraq, that was the strategy used by the Viet Namese...

It is no shame to learn from the strategies of others, how they defeated their enemies... It is no shame to build a better car or television set by assimilating the enemy's technology, and improving on it, as the Japanese did... It is no shame to build the best hotels in the United States when you are locked out, as the Jews did... As Africans we need to borrow from others as they have borrowed from us, and we should not be so arrogant to believe that that is a shame - they didn't...

Here's one, I believe that if Africans studied the Chinese diet, their macrobiotic system, which is basically a Way of Life strategy, we wouldn't have the issues we have with hypertension, diabetes, clogged arteries, renal disease, prostate cancer... I love African culture, man, but I believe other cultures actually have something to offer us... Life affirming, life sustaining cultural exchange is what I am talking about here...

For whatever it is worth, there is a Zen saying, which I try to keep close to me, because of it's humble simplicity: Empty Your Cup... It simply means that one who's cup is always filled, has no space for which they can ADD anything else... That includes knowledge, wisdom and understanding...

Peace!
Isaiah

Well-put Black man.

isaiah u speak the words of truth. the best way to beat ur enemey, is 2 become ur enemey. assume his mind state , thats so real back man

Why in the world would we want to assume the mind set of the oppressor? I can only hope that Black people stop lowering themselves by adopting the lower mindset and ideals of the white man.

Why in the world would we want to assume the mind set of the oppressor? I can only hope that Black people stop lowering themselves by adopting the lower mindset and ideals of the white man.

I DID NOT MEAN THAT THE WAY IT SOUNDS, I MEANT KNOW THY ENEMEY. HOW HE THINKS, WHAT HE MIGHT DO, HIS LIKES AND DISLIKES, KNOW HIS NEXT MOVE AND BE THERE BEFORE HIM. THIS IS A PROCESS OF GATHERING INFO. I DNT MEAN BECOME AN OREO. THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE U RESPOND................OF COURSE U MUST ALWAYS STAY TRUE UR SELF, REPRESENT YO BLACKNESS, CMON DUDE I WASNT BORN YESTERDAY

Sista Queenie and Brotha Therious, I dig ya, I hear ya, I feel ya! As my man Isaac Hayes would say, "If you feel like ya wanna scream, and screamin' is the only thang...Screeeam On!(smile!)

I don't advocate that Africans give up our culture - some other stuff we do, but NEVER our culture... As you said, Sista Queenie, the world would be a most dull and boring place if Africans suddenly decided to act like the Chinese... My point, and I know you understood it, was that we need to build without making a splash - just do it, and shet up... And that not because the White Man is listening, because he gone be listening and looking and surveiling us no matter how we go about it... It's really about energy, what we do with it, how we utilize it, how we manage it... Frankly, I would love to see the look on the White man's face as we are building our power, our infrastructure... He loves to see us rapping and making big, rousing speeches, and nothing gets done... He loves that, so we're only giving him what he loves to see from us, what he expects from us... I would like that man to see the opposite from us, and there's nothing he can do about it... That is my dream(smile!)

Having said that, Queenie, I agree that we had, and continue to have, a great deal to say and express as a people... I bid that we continue to speak our unique truths to the world, because that is the only way we can change the world - by transmission of our ideas to others, as well as, our own... But, as COINTELPRO proved, sometimes you've got to put some shade on your game - you aint got the luxury of gving the man your address, because you're at war... Good generals will NEVER give the enemy his location, his plans, his strategies... I believe I read in Sun Tzu's The Art of War, that a good strategy to assume when your opponent is stronger than you are is to be everywhere he is NOT! To attack him where he least expects it... That is the strategy being used in Iraq, that was the strategy used by the Viet Namese...

It is no shame to learn from the strategies of others, how they defeated their enemies... It is no shame to build a better car or television set by assimilating the enemy's technology, and improving on it, as the Japanese did... It is no shame to build the best hotels in the United States when you are locked out, as the Jews did... As Africans we need to borrow from others as they have borrowed from us, and we should not be so arrogant to believe that that is a shame - they didn't...

Here's one, I believe that if Africans studied the Chinese diet, their macrobiotic system, which is basically a Way of Life strategy, we wouldn't have the issues we have with hypertension, diabetes, clogged arteries, renal disease, prostate cancer... I love African culture, man, but I believe other cultures actually have something to offer us... Life affirming, life sustaining cultural exchange is what I am talking about here...

For whatever it is worth, there is a Zen saying, which I try to keep close to me, because of it's humble simplicity: Empty Your Cup... It simply means that one who's cup is always filled, has no space for which they can ADD anything else... That includes knowledge, wisdom and understanding...

Peace!
Isaiah

Some women like it when a man sings to them. I love it when a man can speak to me in a language that I can understand and can relate to. I love it when a man teaches me things that are important and didn't know before. Keep speaking brotha because you are feeding my mind and lifting my spirit and I thank you!

Queenie :bowdown:

I am a Man from my mama womb. I really do not care what ya call me, African, Cuban, Afro-Latino, African-American whatever you prefer, cultural Identification has really no bearing in my life, I got other stuff to worry about besides that.

Queenie, whew, I don't know if I live up to all that you said, but if I do, I'm very honored by your comments, and thank you very much(smile!) BTW, Help Is On The Way - that's check in the mailbox in less discreet terms...

Peace!
Isaiah

Manasiac, based on your photo, based on your African Cuban-African-American roots, you don't have to be concerned with whom and what you are...

Your humanity, your manhood, born of woman, that's all a given, but you're much more than that... I dig where you're coming from, but you are the sum of your life experiences, like our bodies are the sum total of our diets(smile!) Like the food we eat, our experiences give us seasoning, refines and polishes our personalities - which the psychologists say are formed by the time we're about 5 years of age... Experience and environment, which shape those experiences, tend to influence what we are... But keep on being who you are bruh... We dig ya for who you are...

Peace!
Isaiah

I'M BLACK (RACE) AND AMERICAN ( NATIONALITY). THAT'S WHAT I CONSIDER MYSELF. MY ANCESTORS WENT THROUGH WAY TO MUCH FOR US TO CLAIM A PIECE OF THIS COUNTRY FOR ME TO FLUSH ALL THAT DOWN THE DRAIN TO CLAIM A CONTINENT THAT FRANKLY HAS NO CONNECTION TO US BLACK FOLKS IN AMERICA. I UNDERSTAND IT'S A QUESTION OF IDENTITY. WE AS BLACK PEOPLE HAVE AN IDENTITY THOUGH. AS MUCH AS WE'VE BEEN SCREWED WITH, WE STILL HERE!!! AND ARE NOT AS BAD OFF AS MANY WOULD BRING YOU TO BELIEVE. WE'VE EVEN MANAGED TO FORGE OUR OWN CULTURE IN THIS THANG. BESIDES, AFRICAN IS PERSON FROM A CONTINENT ( WHERE IN AFRICA ARE YOU FROM?) AND AMERICAN IS A NATIONALITY. THE WHOLE DESCRIPTION IS WAY TOO VAGUE TO EVEN MAKE SENSE.

THAT'S MY "BIG" OPINION.

I am a Man from my mama womb. I really do not care what ya call me, African, Cuban, Afro-Latino, African-American whatever you prefer, cultural Identification has really no bearing in my life, I got other stuff to worry about besides that.

THE QUESTION WAS WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF BROTHER, NOT WHAT WE CONSIDER YOU. PERHAPS YOU ASSUME YOU HAVE NO CULTURAL IDENTIFICATION?

I whole hartedly agree Bigtown we have gone through too much to not want to take a part of this country for ourselves.

THE QUESTION WAS WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF BROTHER, NOT WHAT WE CONSIDER YOU. PERHAPS YOU ASSUME YOU HAVE NO CULTURAL IDENTIFICATION?

Brother BigTown, brother Manasiac knows who he is, and has stated that on many ocassions... He has a unique way of expressing himself, but that doesn't mean he's not aware of what's goin' on(smile!) After you get to "know" someone, you know when they're pulling your leg, dig???(smile!) You read people's posts, and after awhile you discern what page they're on... Reading your posts, I am developing insights into where you are coming from...though I haven't quite located you on the compass yet, I'm getting there...(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

MY BAD, THAT BROTHER CONFUSES ME SOMETIMES LOL

I am Manasiac, not a Brother, A boy or a homeboy.

OK, YOU'RE NOT A BROTHER. LOL

I am a born citizen of USA which makes me an American. I am a descendent of Africa about 5 times removed. I know lots of people that were born in Africa but now are citizens here in our country, they, I believe are African Americans Others still I know that attend college with my daughter that are here on visa, they are Africans. I am a Black American, and very proud to be.

Actually everyone (except your general generic blue eyed blond haired WASP) born in this country refers to him/herself by some ancestral land connected to America by a hyphen. Asian-American, Korean-American, Irish-American, etc. The moniker African-American is technically sufficient to describe who I am without the ambiguity and confusion of adopting a name which in fact implies that I am native to a place I've never even been.

While I am happy we discarded the more derogatory names like *****h, negro and coloured I don't see the need to make another change. We do this every ten years and the president doesn't mind making these name changes official--smiling and signing the documents with a flair that disguises the truth that we have in fact produced nothing more than a popcorn fork. Calling ourselves African-Ameican was supposed to have accomplished something. Why has nothing really changed for us? We take a black baseball cap with a big X on it put it on an empty head and think we are honoring Malcom. We put a new name on old stigmas and think we are honoring ourselves.

We have bought into the idea that we can escape a stygma by adopting a new name not associated with that stygma. In truth a name is just a symbol. If we change the symbol without addressing the thing that symbol symbolizes all we are doing is putting a freshly laundered sheet on a flea infested mattress. Would it not be more conducive to a good night's sleep to get rid of the fleas? Would it not be more conducive to progress to strive to attach positive meaning, integrity and honor to the name we have than to chase after a new name that will soon have the negatives of th old name attached to it? Not to say that we can eradicate racism from others but we certainly can change the way we perceive ourselves and that will lead to attitudes and behaviors which will put us on higher ground call us what you want.

I'm Black or rather I am a Black Man...

Malcolm said this almost 40 years ago. Some of our Elders have said that whenever the white supremacist wants to disrupt us from learning to work together, he simply throws the 'identity' brick in the game, because he knows that it's a 'circular' question, meaning that it can't be answered to the satisfaction of all. Why do we think so much time, energy and effort was put into destroying our 'identities'? I think we should recognize that this is a relatively new question. 140 years ago, Black People from everywhere in the world knew who we all were and knew where we came from(The Land of the Blacks). In 4-5 generations, (about 100 years), we've been 'educated' out of our identities so that we will not want to claim what is historically ours, and I'm talking about a heritage of 150-200 thousand years old. This american 'identity' is only a few hundred years old, a dot in time. Whatever we call our self, I just hope it is em-powering and not de-powering.

You Can't Hate the Tree and Not the Roots
by Malcolm X
You have to realize that up until about 1959, Africa was dominated by the colonial powers. And by the colonial powers of Europe having complete control over Africa, they projected the image of Africa negatively. They projected Africa always in a negative light—jungles, savages, cannibals, nothing civilized. And, naturally it was so negative, it was negative to you and me. And you and I began to hate it. We didn't want anybody to tell us anything about Africa, and much less call us an African. And in hating Africa and hating the Africans, we end up hating ourselves, without even realizing it.

Because you can't hate the roots of a tree and not hate the tree. You can't hate Africa and not hate yourself. You show me one of those people over here who has been thoroughly brainwashed, who has a negative attitude toward Africa and I'll show you one who has a negative attitude toward himself. You can't have a positive attitude toward yourself and a negative attitude toward Africa at the same time. To the same degree your understanding of and your attitude toward Africa becomes positive, you'll find that your understanding of and your attitude toward yourself will also become positive.

_______________________Excerpted from his speech "The Last Message."

Brother OldSoul, I think you must be reading my mind sometimes, man(smile!) Hey, quit dat!!!(smile!)

I was thinking about how MALCOLM said, "...why you left yo mind in Africa!", the other day, in reference to some of the stuff I had been reading at another discussion forum... Like you said, we're dealing with the effects of colonization on a daily basis, and when we encounter the thinking, it is always good to have the antidote handy(smile!) Knowledge is wonderful, but self-knowledge is the penultimate - next to the knowledge of GOD... Brother, as longs as cats like you are on the job, we'll get there, to that place where we once were... The damage is extensive, but not irreparable...

Peace!
Isaiah

You know, I have found that a lot of younger people (my own generation included) have their issues with anything African. Baack during the South African apartheid fight... when Black Americans were rallying support for our African brothers and sisters.. A lot of people felt that WE should not help THEm because THEY din't help US during slavery. WE actually had debates in school about why or why not heping them was a good idea. So a bunch of folks feel like we should not identify with anything African simply because the Africans didn't send search and rescue mission for those of us stranded in America.

I've always identified myself as a Black Woman (I think I said this already), mainly due to the fact that most Africans who come over here are offended that we have the nerve to call ourselves African-Americans. I don't know as much about the Motherland as I should, but I am willing to learn.

It is definitly a good idea to call oneself African without including america. However, not including the american portion also means denying all of our slave, spiritual, and blues roots. Let me try to put it like this. Nat Turner was american, Frederick Douglas was american, Harriet Tubman was american, Louis Armstrong was american, Bille Holiday was american, Dr. King was american....I feel that by leaving off the american would be to leave out a large part of our history. Now I am by no means sentimental when it comes to america because of the fact that they still will not recognize the justice for reparations as well as the legacy of slavery and a segregated society; but we too sing america. So before we jump ship, let us go into a Pan-African mindset that we as americans bring a unique story to the table of the diaspora. With all that said, I classify myself as Alien, because I am neither american nor African.

"Louis Armstrong was american"

Excuse me, Louis Amstrong actually identified himself as an African maybe an amerikkkan too, but he actually visited Africa and the place where his ancestors came from and was proud of his ancestory and related to Africa. As a matter of fact, he refused to be buried in New Orleans because it was so racist towards him and his people.

With all due respect Brother Nebraska, who are you to place an identity on our ancestors? How do you know what they called themselves and how they related to Africa? I personally would have called them "Africans" because they were warriors.

Your statement may have some of those beautiful warriors you mentioned rolling their graves. In other words, you may want to speak for yourself.

We as a people have been so indoctrinated by white supremacy that we don't know a hill of beans about Africa. For those of us who saw that fool from harvard, walking around africa blaming africans for slavery, I think his name is whatever!!!, I His name is henry louis "Skip" the facts gates.

PBS, the so-called liberal channel, showed that ridiculous, lyinig documentary so many times for people to see and BBC gave him 50,000,000 to do that documetary. I wonder why?

This is called media literacy brother and appears that you and Toylin are a victims of it.

Toylin, may I add that I don't know what Africans you are running into my sister but I have been to Africa and have several African friends. All who relate to my calling myself African and who are happy that I do so.

Please forgive my words if they appear angry, I am so tired of Africans or (amerikkkans) in the diaspora denying their heritage. Not one white person has ever said they do not relate to europe, but we are all up in the mix saying "I ain't no African".

This is so sad! Please do your homework before you make such self-hating statements.

Peace and Love.

[QUOTE=pdiane

This is called media literacy brother and appears that you and Toylin are a victims of it.

Toylin, may I add that I don't know what Africans you are running into my sister but I have been to Africa and have several African friends. All who relate to my calling myself African and who are happy that I do so.

[/QUOTE]

I have met many Africans (Mostly Nigerians for some reason.. there seems to be a large Nigerian population here in Michigan) that are angry that Black people call themselves African-American, or even Africa. I have even run into African Muslims who tell me that I have no right to wear a scarf over my hair because I'm not Muslim!

Congratulations on visiting Africa. Some of us do not have the finances to partake of that journey just yet. And congratulations, also, on the warm recpetion you have received by our brothers and sisters from the Motherland. Not all of us have had the positive experiences that you have.

Futhermore, it would do our community a great deal if some of the luckier ones who have been afforded certain opportunities to educate those of us who have not.

Thank you
Peace and love!

Toya

I'm just me. I don't know what I would label myself as far as black, african american, american or what. I can not feel as though I can call myself african because I've never been to africa. I can't say I'm american because I've never liked or agreed with anything american. I was only born here. I guess if you got technical....I'm american...but that's definately not where my loyalty lies, so how could I be?

I'm just me. I don't know what I would label myself as far as black, african american, american or what. I can not feel as though I can call myself african because I've never been to africa. I can't say I'm american because I've never liked or agreed with anything american. I was only born here. I guess if you got technical....I'm american...but that's definately not where my loyalty lies, so how could I be?

I feel you, brother. I think there are a lot of us who disagree with what it means to be amerikan, but at the same time, most of us have never been anywhere else... so what do we really know?

I feel you, brother. I think there are a lot of us who disagree with what it means to be amerikan, but at the same time, most of us have never been anywhere else... so what do we really know?


That's the hard part toylin, because I never felt like this (america) was the place for me...and I still don't. But where is? I guess it's a matter of getting out there and finding something better...which I'm planning to do.

That's the hard part toylin, because I never felt like this (america) was the place for me...and I still don't. But where is? I guess it's a matter of getting out there and finding something better...which I'm planning to do.

I hear you.

Pdiane &Toylin, how y'all doin', Sistawomen???(smile!) Interesting posts by the both of you!

Sista PDiane, I live in Brooklyn, and work in Harlem, and both of these locales in my city have rather large Continental African populations these days. I cannot say that I've gotten the same kind of contemptible responses from these brothers and sisters, but I can, at times, feel their angst with me as an African American. As I have said elsewhere, I am in no way deluded that I am loved by Continental Africans, anymore than I am loved by Europeans, or anyone else who would attempt to browbeat, criticize, or hold in contempt my people here in North America, Latin America, or the Caribbean... As it is necessary for us to understand Africa, and Africans, it is their responsibility and their duty to atempt to understand US...(smile!)

Yes, it is absolutely a two-way highway, here... They are NOT more important than I am, and what I have come through in the wilderness of NORTH AMERICA... Us African American toubabs have made it possible for them to come to this badboy, and attend schools, live in neighborhoods, and earn a living they could not on the continent... Yes, they should be quite grateful for that, as it all came at great pain and cost to my ancestors... For them, or anyone else, to fix their faces in an arrogant and scornful mask of derision toward my people and theirs, tells me they are in need of an education that begs much more than what they can ever receive at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton, dig...(smile!) I will NEVER accept anything less than their respect, and I will NEVER make excuses for anyone who insults me. I don't do it for White Man, I will not do it for BlacK Man...

No African, No Muslim, has the right to tell an African American woman what should or should not wear, man, and that has me hot this morning... Who in hell DIDN"T tell you slavery was over???? Is that because SLAVERY is still in effect on the Continent??? Brother take your cowardly *** back home, and tell those arabs to get their hands off YOUR WOMEN!!! You got enough issues on the continent than to be all up in our cool-aid here... This is the level of ignorance that would surely get me in some trouble on the continent... I wont have folk steppin' to me like that...

Sista PDiane, I am goin' to the Continent(and Chicago, too!)... They need an education, many of them... I must admit that one of my real good friends is an Nigerian brother... He's a young cat who came here only a few years ago, and is deeply impacted by HipHop... Oddly enough, the brother is a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...(smile!) I share a lot of history of Africans in the United States with him, because, again, I believe MOST people in the world, including us, need some serious debriefing about African and African American history... This white man has us believing lots of strange things about one another... That's his obsession, to keep us at one another's throats... I am an African and I am an American... I will NEVER toss away the beautiful things my ancestors struggled to create out of nothing... No One on the face of this planet will make me believe that what we have created is less than what they have created... I look about the world, and I see it dancing to the beat the WE Africans in the United States created, the original ART FORMS WE CREATED - not the other way around... Do they engage in browbeating because their jealousy, out of a sense of inadequacy in our powerful presence???(smile!) They will not tell me who I am... I come to far by faith to fail myself like that(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

"Us African American toubabs have made it possible for them to come to this badboy, and attend schools, live in neighborhoods, and earn a living they could not on the continent... Yes, they should be quite grateful for that, as it all came at great pain and cost to my ancestors... For them, or anyone else, to fix their faces in an arrogant and scornful mask of derision toward my people and theirs, tells me they are in need of an education that begs much more than what they can ever receive at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton, dig...(smile!) I will NEVER accept anything less than their respect, and I will NEVER make excuses for anyone who insults me. I don't do it for White Man, "


I am so there with you Brother Isiah, I think the difficulty is that we as Africans in amerikkka have this attitude that "we ain't no savage, poor, starving african" and that makes it very hard for us to get along as a people.

All of us are victims of media literacy in which Africans come here thinking we are a bunch of gangsta hip hop criminals who are lazy, when we think of Africans as opportunists who hate us.

Both groups suffer from white supremacy and self-hate to the degree that we disrepect each other.

Someone has to open up, someone has to say. Stop this madness. I do that in my community and it works. It is almost as if Africans are on the defensive because they come across ignorant so called African-amerikkkans who loathe them, look down on them and say derogatory things to them. They stereotype us and lash out at us like they have done to Sister Toylin.

We have an African sisters group in Boston. Dance and culture bring us together. We eat a look at videos at eat others house. We give each other parties, organize all types of cultural events. I would like to invite Toylin and you brother to Boston to see what we are doing here.

When Africans arrive in the u.s., we are in the position of power. We have businesses, we have churches, we have homes, we have great authors, schools. So to me it is up to us to break the ice and say, exactly what you said above, but follow up with that with events and venues to bring us together. Do you understand what I am saying brother?

If an African told me that I ain't a Muslim or an African, I would proceed to not just let him know that our ancestors paved the way for him to step foot in this country but start a dialogue with him and try to show him that he is a victim of media literacy. I find most Africans are open to this. Most people are open to Love brother.

We are giving up too easy on our brothers and sisters from Africa, yet talking about them like dogs. We don't do that to white folks. We are patient with them, we love them. No matter what they do to us.

When the last time you had an African in our homes, to discuss these issues. I do it all the time.

If we did we would be a lot further along in being indepedent from our mental slavery.

Notice Brother ISiah, I did not include "i will not do it for a Black Man". Peace and Love to you.

"I will NEVER make excuses for anyone who insults me. I don't do it for White Man, I will not do it for BlacK Man..." That's my quote, and I stand by it...

My beautiful sister, are you saying that I should smile, and make light of it when a Black Man slaps me in the face - because he is Black??? No, my beautiful sister, I will not tolerate any human being slapping me in the face - period... I don't extend my person as a welcome mat to be walked on by African people, or any people... When folk act as the hammer using you as a nail, they will hammer you as long as you behave like a nail(smile!) I am not in the habit of trying to please and appease people solely based on their ethnicity, even if we are of the same ethnicity... I give respect where respect is due, and basic respect of all humanity is due, in my humble judgement...

My beautiful sister, I understand that you have your points of view on this, and I have mine... Here in New York City, Continental Africans have staked a claim on Harlem, the so-called cultural mecca of African Americans in the United States... They are there because they were welcomed there - though I admit, not always with open arms... That's not always attributable to self-hatred, however... When you move into an already crowded environment, sometimes you rub the present and previous occupants the wrong way(smile!)

I agree with you that there is a great deal of ignorance on both sides on this situation, but I believe that Africans coming to these shores need to become better aquainted with our history and culture in this country... Like I said, it stings and hurts to be treated by your own as if you are their enemy... Perhaps that is what African Americans respond to... We have Diasporan Africans and Continental Africans coming to this nation which our ancestors hands built, and behaving no differently toward us that a white man... How should we respond to that??? Have our people not been slapped enough??? I think, quite frankly, we have... We have extended the welcome mat to others, and now I would like to see Continental Africans extend that welcome mat to Africans from the New World... Don't ask us for one dime... Just extend that welcome mat... I'll be waiting...(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

We are Black in my opinion. Black: The displaced people in America of African ancestry lost in the diaspora.

Please click the link below to see how this subject is being dealt with by white people with enormous influence in our community...

African American and African (http://whgbetc.com/hennessyad.jpg)

Please click the link below to see how this subject is being dealt with by white people with enormous influence in our community...

African American and African (http://whgbetc.com/hennessyad.jpg)

Oh My Gosh !!! I've seen it all now !!! Man ... thank you for this Brother OldSoul!

Family, yall need to check that link out above, be sure to enlarge the picture so you can read the text ... man oh man oh man ... here's the link again ... http://whgbetc.com/hennessyad.jpg

aint nuth'n else i can say ... just visit the link Family.

Thanks again Brother OldSoul.

:heart:

Destee