Hello Family,

Last night in the Pan-Africanism voice chat (http://www.destee.com/chat) discussion, it was suggested that one of the most empowering things we could do individually, and easily, to help push the struggle of unifying us around the world ... is to say we are African ... instead of African American, or American, or Colored, or Negro, or Black, or any other number of things we've probably referred to ourselves as.

It was mentioned that all other people connect themselves to a land, except us. Ask a Chinese person, "What are you?" and they will say, "Chinese." Ask an Italian, "What are you?" and they will say, "Italian." Ask a Japanese, "What are you?" and they will say, "Japanese." Ask an African American, "What are you?" and many of us will respond with "Black," or "African American" or "i'm Black, but i've got some Indian in me" but rarely does our response fully and completely embrace Africa, by saying, "I am African."

I'm guilty of this. Until recently, i would have said, "African American" or "Black." I've been becoming more aware of a lot of things as a result of this community and all the many Sisters and Brothers that share with me. But what was really the clincher, was the opportunity i had recently of chatting with a gentleman from China in voice chat (http://www.destee.com/chat). He spoke a little English, making it possible for us to discuss a few things. I asked him did he know that he was in an "African American" chat room. He said no, he had been surfing, searching and just stumbled on us. He then asked me if i was a Negro. I said, "No, i'm African, i'm Black." (I was trying to embrace Africa, but notice i still had to throw that color thing in there, Black). When i said that i was Black, he responded by typing into the room ... "i'm a yellow-skinned-man ... lol" ... gosh ... it was very eye opening. I really don't think he meant it to be offensive, and of course i didn't take it that way ... but he was laughing at me ... laughing at the idea that a people would refer to themselves as a color.

Anyway, let someone ask me "What are you?" in reference to my culture, and i will say that i am African.

I had to grow into this and i would imagine that many of my Sisters and Brothers here in the U.S., must also go through some process to take off the old and put on new.

So, my question is ... how difficult would it be for you to refer to yourself as simply, "African," vs. "African American?" Would you be willing to do this? Do you see how it could help unify Africans all over the world, if we made this small little change in our lives?

Looking forward to any discussion this may stimulate.

:heart:

Destee

Not difficult for me at all...without question I'm Afrikan!

African and PROUD!!!!. Thier is no A. American.dont you agree?

To speak honestly. I dont know how easy this will come for me because if I went to Africa how will my people address me?
Will they accept me as African or will they say I'm American. Will the fine line be drawn there too? Don't get me wrong, Yes, I consider myself of African decent but will my people embrace me Or will they cast me as different too? It's just a question that I pose.

In Answer To Destee's Question

You can all me negro, black, or african-american; but I am not African, or a Person of Color.

No, I do not think that "calling" myself an African will help or make it possible for Black people around the world Unite. We seemingly love to romanicize Africa and Africans, as some glorious and righteous entity that can somehow transform us to the place where we should be; a place that we "actually could be" if we did the things that we should be doing to be just that. Our window of opportunity is small but open, and sometimes I feel as if, God, must be scratching his head wondering when and if we will ever get it!

I think that to do so would betray my foremothers and forefathers who suffered the reality of being sold--self, life, and limb, for trinkets, sugar, and gun "powder," to finish killing off themselves (kinda prophetic in a perverse kind of way; a blood legacy seemingly passed down all the shores the tears of OUR PARENTS graced with
their stripped humaness, into nothingness.) It would betray their strength and conviction to survive, to love and to live.

To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. We, the black natives of this land give ourselves to all; including other "Blacks" who happily and willingly join hand in hand with our oppressors; yet, we are the ones that everyone comes to for help, for sustenance to get them through the treacherous waters of life, then after use, we are ridiculed and spit out... Our foreparents and God himself must be crying for us.

What I spew is only my feelings; I have no hatreds because I cannot hold it. I think that if some of you have found some empowerment in calling yourself African or anything else you may want to call yourself; God bless you, be happy. It is just that to keep going into a circle of trying to define self; without ever knowing self will always relegate us to the low rung of life. Maybe, I have become selfish, and if I am, I will accept that, and try to correct it; but What have they EVER DONE FOR ME, FOR YOU, FOR US? What except find satisfaction in joining hand in hand with those in helping to keep hurting us... a thousand year trial that has up until now not penetrated our armour... for now, our treachery is so evident that we have sold our very souls to one defined ideology or another, and allow ourselves to be used as todies and jiggaboos; spitting out limp-wristed emotionalism....

Trinkets, sugar and gun-powder; the Bling-Bling of yesteryear that enslaved my people... that still does ( aren't labels bling-bling?)

Originally posted by happy69

To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. [/B]

happy69, I don't understand your logic. Can you please clarify.....

"Just remember that you don't have to be what they want you to be." - Muhammad Ali

"There has never been another you. With no effort on your part you were born to be something very special and set apart. What you are going to do in appreciation of that gift is a decision only you can make." - Dan Zadra

There's no right or wrong in how a person perceives their self. It may seem trivial to some as to how some of us view the world and ourselves in it, but our consciousness has to start somewhere and in some, it matters a lot that we connect to a place of origin that conjures up more memories of who we are than memories of pain. Romantic notions? To some degree probably, but I don't think romantic at the risk of being ignorant of the politics involved in our slave experience. No, in fact, it might be the opposite.

What have THEY ever done for me and us? Well, I guess that would depend on how a person thinks who THEY are. What are WE doing for us? No group is perfect and neither are Africans. To be blind to this fact is to be ignorant at its most basic level.

What I see when I think of Africa and the more I learn about her is a NATION built with strong, proud, and intelligent who historically have come through a lot. I see a nation of greatness and extreme potential.

Thinking of the greatness of Africa and it's potential helps me to clear my head and let go of racist programming that I've been exposed to ALL my life and a victim of here in America. This is all that I know, unless I make a concerted effort to find out the truth. I wear the badge for me and for my ancestors who couldn't claim it because they would be beaten, raped and killed if they did.

If my ancestors were alive today, I wonder what their thoughts would be and how they would want to answer this question. Deep inside I'd like to think I already know the answer.

happy, to answer your question sis...I don't see labels as "bling-bling." It may not make sense but in our world today, people tend to identify with groups by labels. I see this as another example practiced by us and others around the world.

Just my opinion.

Peace!

M-Brown;
to me it is simple. To call myself an African is to betray my foremother and forefather. As an empathetic people, sure, they would have forgiven the treachery... I do believe that; but I also feel that they would have been hurt the rest of their very lives for the treachery of their own basically giving them away to suffer; for SUGAR,AND TRINKETS... it is logical to me, and that is all that matters.

Queen,
that is your right. I have no qualms with your rationale. But, just like we have both espoused in the past that we need to rethink who we fight for , and what we fight for, and let no fight get in the way of our progress... I feel the same about "Other" Blacks. Not that they shouldn't fight for the things that they want and are right and just--- do that, it may work! I think that we need to take a break... We are the ones who lobbied for them to even be here; we still lobby--- and I feel that the dissipating level of that lobbying is due in part to US waking up to the fact that sometimes Black ain't Black--- and that is okay, but we have to think about it... Hell, we even lobby for Hispanics!

The absolute last time I raised my voice against anything was the Anti-Apartheid movement; it was wrong, it was unjust... I still have my pins, and "act-so" letters, etc... until I began to think; how could it happen, how could a people in a place where they outnumber those in charge by 1000 to 1 be enslaved? I think that our reticence to join with anybody is a light into the fact that we are wakening up to some very real facts; we are willing to help anybody and we do; nobody helps us... not other blacks, not anyone.... it is just the truth... you tell me of anytime when others did (and I am not talking Marcus Garvey, different time, differing people); and I will give you times when we have helped them..... and all the lies/liars that they ally themselves with... against us.

Your question should be Why Are We Not Doing It Just For Us?
Happily, I would say, that we are beginning- and that is good--start.

When I think of Africa... I think of the cradle of civilization, that gave birth to a great people... who were light years ahead of the rest of the world... who cursed itself and it's people by being blinded by "Bling-Bling;" And I am not just talking about their children they sold to Whites---and burdened them with unflinching hatred that still swirls around us each and everyday... they have put that caste upon their own children with unbidding greed, and hatred...

Just because the way we all are may be comparable, does that mean that it is right. I was trying to paint the picture that our seeming affiliation for Bling-Bling may be hereditary?

i feel like i'm an alien...on a distant planet
not quite african and not quite american
what too do?
peace
khasm

I'm Khemitic

[QUOTE]Originally posted by happy69
You can all me negro, black, or african-american; but I am not African, or a Person of Color.[Qoute]

Response: You'd prefer to be called any of the terms above but you choose not to be referred to as an Afrikan. However, weren't the terms that you prefer(see above) imposed on us by another people. Even the term "person of color" is not an Afrikan self imposed term. From my understanding the Europeans engineered those terms and classify us as such.


[Qoute] No, I do not think that "calling" myself an African will help or make it possible for Black people around the world Unite. We seemingly love to romanicize Africa and Africans, as some glorious and righteous entity that can somehow transform us to the place where we should be; a place that we "actually could be" if we did the things that we should be doing to be just that. Our window of opportunity is small but open, and sometimes I feel as if, God, must be scratching his head wondering when and if we will ever get it![Quote]


Ok. no one ever claimed that Afrika is a land filled with all peace and comfort. Politically the continent doesn't seem to be in a good place right now. However have u asked yourself why? Maybe one of the reasons might be the constant and deliberate undermining which leads to the underdevelopment of the most resourceful continent on the planet and we all are familiar with what the sale of human flesh did to the continent. We can see its continuing effects right now.

[Quote]I think that to do so would betray my foremothers and forefathers who suffered the reality of being sold--self, life, and limb, for trinkets, sugar, and gun "powder," to finish killing off themselves (kinda prophetic in a perverse kind of way; a blood legacy seemingly passed down all the shores the tears of OUR PARENTS graced with
their stripped humaness, into nothingness.) It would betray their strength and conviction to survive, to love and to live.[Quote]

How is indentifying ourselves with our birthright betraying our foremothers and forefathers? Are you suggesting that our foremothers and forefathers who were able to survive the brutal shipment from the continent to a captured land renamed America somehow ceased from being Afrikan or better yet voluntarily decided to renounce Afrika and be American, Afrikan American? They weren't even thought of as being human as evidenced by their treatment by the Europeans. As John Henrik Clark stated no Afrikan Americans, Jamaicans, Brazilians, Trinidanians, Cubans ever came on those ships.

[Quote]To call myself an African, would make me, an abused child, identify with my abuser; surely, you can liken that to those of us today, still reaching for labels to say who we are, what we are about... identifying with those who still wretchedly try to destroy us... it is a legacy that throughout history has provided us nothing but a self-imposed treachery that still serves to kill ourselves... we are easy. We, the black natives of this land give ourselves to all; including other "Blacks" who happily and willingly join hand in hand with our oppressors; yet, we are the ones that everyone comes to for help, for sustenance to get them through the treacherous waters of life, then after use, we are ridiculed and spit out... Our foreparents and God himself must be crying for us.[Quote]


Whose the abuser? Afrikans on the continent? Are you putting the full blame on those Afrikans for the situation of every single Black person worldwide. You say that you are an abused child meaning that you are a victim. However it seemed that you reserved the role of oppressor to the Afrikans on the continent. I have not once heard you mention where the Eurpeans fit in this scenario, and how the deranged quest for control and power by Europeans historicallly, has caused decay in the world today(white supremacy, racism), and has most likely caused you to view the situation as you view it.


[Quote]What I spew is only my feelings; I have no hatreds because I cannot hold it. I think that if some of you have found some empowerment in calling yourself African or anything else you may want to call yourself; God bless you, be happy. It is just that to keep going into a circle of trying to define self; without ever knowing self will always relegate us to the low rung of life. Maybe, I have become selfish, and if I am, I will accept that, and try to correct it; [Quote]

I wouldn't suggest that you have hatred but it appears that you have animosity for the Afrikans on the continent.

[Quote]but What have they EVER DONE FOR ME, FOR YOU, FOR US? What except find satisfaction in joining hand in hand with those in helping to keep hurting us... a thousand year trial that has up until now not penetrated our armour... for now, our treachery is so evident that we have sold our very souls to one defined ideology or another, and allow ourselves to be used as todies and jiggaboos; spitting out limp-wristed emotionalism....[Quote]


With every people there are going to be some who are traitors, some who are naieve and some who are selfish. Its not a big percentage but it does happen. Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that it was the Afrikans who sold all their people into slavery to the foreigners who were just innocently persuaded by the Afrikans to buy their people?


Summary: My "perception" of your comments is that it seems that you feel the need to further divide Afrikan people in America(commonly referred to as African American) from Afrikans on the continent. I'm not sure how you feel about Afrikans in the Carribbean and other parts of the world, maybe its in the same way that you view Afrikans in America, but I'm not sure. Well as we all know division has been the greatest tool that has fostered our confusion.

I am NEITHER!!!!!!!!! I am an AMERICAN of AFRICAN DESENT!

Living in NYC I have had the chance to meet many africans from all over the contenent and they will tell you plain and simple if you are not from the motherland you are Not African and that they are the African Americans

M-Brown:
Of course I was not suggesting that it was all of the African's fault; they are as much to blame in my own mind, as Whites... I don't have to divide anything...as I have stated and know is the truth--We have never been together! As far as African-American, it is just a political term, and even those in on the coining of the phrase, explain that as a term incorporating our dual heritages....

Yes, I probably do have a bias... we Blacks native to this land cannot continue to self-destruct.... I have been close with Africans in the past, I still have very close ties with some Carribbeans... and I still feel the same. Again, I ask you where have I gone wrong on this. How can we continue to utilize what power it is that we have to help others and let our own dreams continue to fall to the waste-side? Those other Blacks that I know feel the same; in fact it was some of them who got me asking questions, reading and understanding...

I am not against them, why should I be, I don't hate Whites, so why should I hate them... to me though, I think what is worse... and yes they do have biases and come here with stupid bias just like everyone else, just like immigrants of every stripe... so you say that I am to affiliate myself and what energies that I have trying to appease them? I think not; I will not waste any time on that... that is something that people have to come to mutually and I could careless if it ever happens... just as I wouldn't waste one ounce of breath on White racism... it is a wasteful use of brain and energy....

I am not saying that America shouldn't help them either-- Yes they should it is only fair; but is it not a rationale argument made when billions have been given and nothing but corruption takes place? Isn't it only fair to question how could so-called leaders and their friends take those funds and come to America, and open businesses (and this is not just Africans either!)????

You are correct, much of the problems faced in Africa is because of what others have done to control and destroy it... of course that is the truth... but again, as I stated before... to BUY, someone have to SELL.... SLAVERY, THE PURGING OF AFRICA, DRUGS IN OUR COMMUNITIES. BLACK DEMOCRATS, BLACK REPUBLICANS, ETC...

No Native Black American is naive. We are born knowing. We may have to lie, pretend, put on rosy colored glasses, shuck and jive, or fight--- to survive, but we can never say that we don't know.... we can never say that we don't know... and M-Brown, I respect you feelings, and whatever you want to do... I still feel that the only thing that we have to do is progress, and from one sister to you... More power to you.

african.

what kind of uneducated "oof" do you take me for? lol

African-American. My family roots probably left Africa more than 100 years ago. That makes me more American than African. I agree with Happy69. African-Americans try to make themselves seem more important than others. We always talk about the man bull****ting us. But, we are our own seeds of bull****. I'm talking about the stuff we say like "We come from queens and kings". I got news for you so, does everyone else. Sure whites bought us here in chains, but, you need to wake up and realise your fellow Africans helped em. It was a way of getting rid of your enemies. There is still slavery in Africa today. Besides, Africans are coming to America on their own now.


And to XXPanthaXX, you are bias. Everything you post is negative. even stating your from Klan Mountain Georgia. If you don't like prejuiduice whites, that's cool. But, to be equally biased about them makes you no better. You also, show that your biased towards Africans in this post. Who are you with besides you? I am not fooled by you. That's why you attacked my joke. you see everything in Black and white. Brother, like my poem says. Spare me the conspiracy, your conspiring against yourself.

I said nothing about African-Americans trying to make themselves seem more important than others. I am merely talking about labels... Your assessment underlines your agenda, do not include me in this. I merely speak to us focusing our energies on us, only for awhile.... and "X" is correct, why bring whatever happened on another thread here?

We have a right and duty not to agree on everything; we have to, it too is an integral part of us doing the business that we have to do as a people. Just because my stance on something is different than theirs, it does not mean that I feel that they are any less my brother or sister.... however, they too, have to judge me, and that is their right too.

I conclude I am not African; but African is a part of my heritage, no matter how I feel about the people, my blood runs from them; I like most native Blacks have White blood that is running in my veins too, and I would never call myself White either.

Everyone has a right to consider and call themselves whatever they want; as long as they are in the struggle and want us to get to where we belong, they can call themselves "Grape Ape," for all I care.

OOh OOh please, me, me.
Go head Destee wit yow bad self.
I could cry.

Dont ya know, i've been on another
Forum that i regularly post at (Its really my home,lets sees how yall do fa me here)
and the topic that has been going on for two
weeks is this one.
I guess its in the air,i could talk ya 2 def
about this one but ima keep it short.(If i can)
A few things
As we have no control over or any affiliation or never have had with any president or
Authoritive power in the USA we must limit
our attachment, for there will come
a time as did come a time in Sodom when we
will be given the means to leave.
(you's aint got no passport do you's).

When a man and nation so drunk on
power ignores all wisdom that the natives
shares and continues to perpetuate a self
destructive wave across the land as a
STRATEGY,
it can only come to one thing.
Do not let ideals become your motivation.
America is less than 600 years old and has
ran before it crawled,
EMPIRES take centuries to build.
The problem lies in our
short sitedness due to our quantitative life span.
There is an art to building an empire and
rules to life

QUICK IS SHORT LIVED!

WISDOM

In effect what im saying is
for black people
PATRIOTISM is Idealism and
America is getting more desperate
seeking what she has consumed
too quickly in foreign lands.
(You get me?)

Africa has EVERYTHING needed to
sustain the world.

WHY NOT KEEP HOLD OF YOUR GIFT?

If that aint the whole riddle to slavery
then I dont know.

Incidentaly

WHOLE LIE WOOD.. sorry Hollywood
Points towards NewYork like
it has an Agenda to
throw all the lost souls
in for a final bite of







THE APPLE.




As dead pres said
How can you be the Master and the Slave
at the same time.









*

@Earl

YOU SAID
"Sure whites bought us here in chains, but, you need to wake up and realise your fellow Africans helped em. It was a way of getting rid of your enemies. There is still slavery in Africa today. Besides, Africans are coming to America on their own now."

Aint that story a little tired,in effect what your stating has already seperated yowself from being an African.

Listen to your thoughts bru.

Let me clear up this cliche saying.

Slavery occured amongst
US A f r i c a n s
(thats /us/ not U.S.)
many years before
White slavery (different thing)

SHOO, i'd a had slaves too.
Slaves were the compassionate option from
God to deal with the negative of the village.
If a man rapes, say, your daughter or wife,
you have the option to put him to death
or enslave him,he becomes your permanent
employee (for free) all you gotta do is feed
shelter and clothe him, thats it.


NOW
What a surprise to see them being
branded,
raped, starved and killed.
Who ya thinks capable of such hatred?

THEY reinvented the whole thing.

OKAY
now thats cleared up.

"NOBODY EVER SAY THAT OLD TIRED
STATEMENT AGAIN."

We need to get off this Af Am pride
cos there aint nothing to be proud of
slipping further away from our culture.
Look what we're becomin.

@FORUM

Let me ask you what do you know about
Africa, as it makes up half your name?
then ask yourself the same about America
and what contribution do you
give to America
As opposed to AFRICA?

This ends the debate

Nah ma black Peoples,
Yowl American
not African American, AMERICAN American.
That was the trick in the first place.
No man can be two things (Ya get confused end up doing lowly things
in the name of one side, contradicting the other as we've seen)
Its like being bisexual it dont work,thats a sexual title for
A FREAK.

IM AN AFRICAN and I dont need
an AFRICANS APPROVAL TO KNOW IT!

I FEEL IT IN MA SOUL.


As Lot said to his Adorable wife

"YA COMIN OR STAYIN?"

Stayin?

"AIIGHT PEEEEAACE"











*

I disown American because "Black people" had to fight to be american and we are still not as equal as "americans r supposed to be. No one else add american to who they are so why should I?If I could have been born and raised in Afrika I would hav preferred it. America is where I live Physically but Afrika is in my heart, my spirit and my history. Nothing about america is apart of my history accept for slavery and though I acknowledge it The his story from that is even a lie. So why accpet I'm american when America is a lie.

most def a african living in america
not a african american nor a black man nor a man of color
forth i bleed as u and u RED
my peoples gave me a chance to be what i am now i stand
and say i am what i am ........a african man of strong roots.

AMEN

Poeticsoulsister!

A LUU YOU GEERL!

@FORUM

Learn from the sister!








*

I read most of the posts and I'm happy with some disappointed with others. I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American. My history varies. I have some family here long before the slave trade (despite what many may think Blacks were circling the world before Columbus' butt). I have some family members brought over here in boats in the early 1600's and others with roots in no other place but here. Any way. I will never deny whether or not I'm African. That's a beautiful thing. Despite how Africans may feel:

UPTOWNE"S POST ABOUT AFRICAN PEOPLE HE'S ENCOUNTERED:

Living in NYC I have had the chance to meet many africans from all over the contenent and they will tell you plain and simple if you are not from the motherland you are Not African and that they are the African Americans

Not a Problem, but do I walk around telling folks they aren't American because they weren't born here. What kind of double standard sh** is that? I wasn't born in African, so I'm not African? In that case..there sure are a lot of Americans that SHOULDN"T BE HERE?

I'm not a fan of labels. I'm no Christian, but I'm God fearing. I'm of African Descent and very proud of that ....because I am FROM KINGS AND QUEENS appointed by the most high. Despite what someone said earlier that every one is from Royalty....That's B.S. baby.

My role as an "American." What is American anyway? What history do we have outside of Bloodshed and tall buidings and football. None really. American history is Africa...Africans carried this place on it's back....gave America a monkey boost and now what ever we have left will be sold on E-Bay....

We are not here to stay......I'm God's Child originating from the RICH (not poor) soils of Africa. Here in America testing my strength.

I rumbled on that one, but any questions just ask. I'm sure I confused somebody. In summary. I'm African, understanding America and why I'm here. I hold no flags of any nation. I'm Royal T.

@Royal T
Dyou say?
"I hold no flags of any nation. I'm Royal T."

So then whas that symbol beside yo name?

@Forum
you gonna hate me for this but

AFRICAN & AMERICAN
Should have never been a combined word.
They VIOLENTLY CONFLICT.
This is the very thing that has scrambled our
ethics.
(More hatred to me)
Blacks in America are the most morally displaced in the whole of the black world
because they attached to the name American.
everyone else have been quite clear
that they are privelaged foreigners.
And the curse continues.
Bush is the embodiment of the American attitude. Is that what you are?
Homeboy FINALLY went to Africa.
In his sheltered plane helicopter seperate food
and the rest.
IGNORANCE.
My advice is go and see.

(not you Royal T,your probably still in
American dream mode,it'll wear off)

Ever met a mixed raced person who dont
know they BLACK? They loyal to neither
and become CONFUSED and HYPOCRITICAL.

Ever hung with a bisexual person?
same thing, its not that you cant be many
things just not two that oppose.
OK its here now and we use it to identify
our background but dont be fooled into
believing you American.
`next question is What is an American?
I notice its normally the Immigrants who
buy into it, MAYBE cos GETTING a GREENCARD is so hard
is like goin to boot camp.
THE **** IS DRILLED IN.

(This aint meant to be a dis)

Na Bru/Sis/homey/curz
Y'aint American
Your a permanent resident,made to feel
comfortable (Alice tumbling down
the rabbit hole)
in a RACIST REALITY.

(The Matrix if you like)


@Royal T
Please get off that sept 11th
stuff.It was an American who
masterminded it.

Patriotism 'll get
you nowhere!

The Day SUPERMAN
IS A SMASH @ THE BOX OFFICE
and hes black (not BLACKSUPERMAN)
just Superman

That day we'll all be AMERICAN.
and Marcus Garvey can say (from his tomb)
**** i was wrong!
till then get in line with Amadou,Rodney
and the rest.


AGAIN
HOW CAN YOU BE THE MASTER.
AND THE SLAVE AT THE SAME TIME?

Dead Prez




It aint hard to tell.

:kiss:



















*

OH MY GOD!
Dreams can come true!
:jawdrop:

Who could of wished for a better timed statement.

Just to force my point

This is the statement one of our regular racists posted on my home site Yesterday.
"003 - 02:50 am:

"I spent some time in the U.S. Navy and went to several oversea ports with a few worthless black sailors, when the white whores axed these negros what they were, they proudly said "American" when we got back to the ship they became "'african' Americans" again."


Well there you have it!

make ya mind up time.

see what happens when you stand for truth?

God is great!
:bowdown:

I see you misunderstood me, but I set myself up for that one. The Avatar next to my name is just that. An Avatar of Africa (the only one I could get to work by the way-didn't want the pic of the black woman flippin pancakes). Like I said in the beginning of my post. I'm African (a misnomer my the way) living in America. Above all I'm God's Child.

Indeed, I know September 11 was masterminded by one of America's own in order for us to fall for this dumb ***** war. So, I hate to tell you I was never on the Sept. 11 crap. My point was, everyone was crying "I'm an American" when the towers came down. I wasn't. I was crying "God help us fools. We've been askin' for it."

Unfortunately, there may not be a proper way to put my "label" in words, but I know Africa runs through me and America is trying to rob me from it. But what the heck is new. Any more questions Hesaid. We're doing fine.... :)

ok, I just re-read your post again....I missed something. You wrote:

(not you Royal T,your probably still in
American dream mode,it'll wear off)


I'm laughing at you now. ME ON American Dream mode. ME??? What part of my initial post stated that I was an American dreamer. I have Africa tatooed on my back with a Black woman attached to it holding up "THE FIST." White folks point at it in disgust and call it un-patriotic. I know my first post was a little confusing. I was writing off emotion, but I guess you didn't catch it all. Let me help you.


I'm not a fan of labels. I'm no Christian, but I'm God fearing. I'm of African Descent and very proud of that ....because I am FROM KINGS AND QUEENS appointed by the most high. Despite what someone said earlier that every one is from Royalty....That's B.S. baby.

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN.

My role as an "American." What is American anyway? What history do we have outside of Bloodshed and tall buidings and football. None really. American history is Africa...Africans carried this place on it's back....gave America a monkey boost and now what ever we have left will be sold on E-Bay....

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN....???

We are not here to stay......I'm God's Child originating from the RICH (not poor) soils of Africa. Here in America testing my strength.

-WHAT PART OF THAT IS AMERICAN?????

OR AM I MISUNDERSTANDING YOU......


ALL IN RESPECT BY THE WAY/NO BASHING OR HATING GOING ON. THIS IS THE WAY IT'S DONE.


by the way...you were one of the people I agreed with, how could you possible pull American Patriotism out of what i said? I'm lost. Help me please (EVERYBODY, not just directed at hesaid).

OKAY bru i stereo typed you!
This topic has just been goin
around too long an if we cant even
agree we African then how can we go
forward?
I was gonna apologise after your first reply
then OH SHIIT

Ya hat ta go back!
(Like jimmy castor)

Me
I got NO
patience.

Im the kinda person
who will always check to see if we've
lost the point.


If you look deep into
the way someone writes you can tell theyre
life story
all kinds of insecurities and stuff poor
out. Can you believe some people post
just to show off their Jewels (Knowledge.)
well ima Rob em and give it to the
needy.Half the time their debates become a personal show of who knows best defeating
the whole purpose of the site but they get
lost in it they no longer see.
I just hope
when we post,we are aware that we're
looking for solutions and not an Arguement.

We Argue enough.

On my regular site we're just building the infrastructure of a new world, economy an all.

Sorry bru
It aint you
The sep 11 thing got the old emotions
flowin.

Peace bru






*

Feels like your post went from you understood me back to not understanding me. So, now i'm extremely confused. First off, I made sure that I said no disrespect, no arguing. I'm just clarifying my statement because I was babbling my first time around. Secondly, Bruh, I'm a sista in this struggle. Check the photos in the family joint. Didn't I say a few times I"M AFRICAN (a misnomer) living in America testing my strength....am i missing something????? Somebody help me.....where ya at Destee fam. Am I messing up here...if so i have no problem fixing my errors, if that's what you mean. Clarify for me please.

THANKS!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Royal_T ... i'm with you Sister ... i'm not sure what Hesaid said ...
but perhaps if we act like we understood ... he'll let it go ...

:heart:

Destee

Originally posted by Baba Ahmed
NNQueen listen (regardless that some belittle those of us who quote other's words; I choose to use the words & thoughts who r demonstrably proven scholar/warriors. I b still learn'n and stumblin.) It's from AFRICAN POWER, by Asa Hilliard III, Ed.D; pg 4:

"...This lack of unity is in direct rejection of indigenous African principles which promote a strong sense of community.

"There's no need to struggle to change the minds of those who make a personal choice to function as an individual and not as a member of an ethnic family; with the obligations that family membership entails. But we do need to b clear about who chooses to be in the family and who prefers to be an individual or just 'happens to be Black.' Understanding this distinction will clarify the kinds of expectations or challenges which might be posed by certain people. It will help us to know who will be an advocate for African liberation versus who will be an opportunistic individual."
__________________________________________________ ___

To me a key phrase is, those who make a personal choice...

Anyway if I wanted to get real funky, I'd take it to the absolute: The African Woman is THE MOTHER OF HUMANKIND! Raised from the soil of Mama Afrika! Ya know? but I avoid do n that, unless in the arena of fat mouf'n.

To copy a 18 yr young brutha: dis heah is chess; not checkers!


Medase

Peace Baba,

Very poignant quotes by Asa Hilliard. What name we answer to tells a lot about who we are and the principles we believe in. People with like- minds and like-goals tend to gravitate toward each other. I agree that we need to be clear about who is among us and the criteria for becoming a member of a "family" has to be based on more things other than just being Black.

Aaahhh, Baba, you ask whether I know that my ancestors are here and if I hear them? I wish that I could say with absolute certainty that this is true, but I'm still "young" in my awakening process and learning how to listen with a deeper knowledge, a heightened awareness, and a keener sense of who I am. It's not easy Baba, when you've spent most of your life being conditioned, manipulated, oppressed, and taught not to know the "real" you. It's like taking a bath after a very long time, and as you scrub, you begin to shed layers of dead and useless skin away, only to discover a healthier, more rejuvenated layer that lay underneath hidden by all the grit and grime that built up from being unclean.

Being here can be like taking a bath, Baba. I have to thank Destee for providing the water and people like you for providing the soap and scrub brush.

Peace.

Destee...True maybe. But I'm like a Cosby kid...don't like to go to bed mad or not understanding something. Keeps the stress down. LOL :)


Baba Ahmed...nothing is confusing about what he said in general. I'm confused about his response to me that's all. I actually dig his initial comment.

Royal_T ... k Sister, i was on my way to bed when i posted, not feeling the best, but wanted to give you some love. I didn't understand Hesaid's comments about folks life stories, insecurities, and jewels being obvious based on posts in a fourm ... but there are many, more wise and more blessed than i ... and not all things are meant for me to understand ... so i was willing to accept that this was one of them. i understand your desire to figure it all out if you can, and i encourage you to do that ... just wanted to let you know that you hadn't messed anything up, and as great as this tool is, it's often easy to misunderstand someone ... at least for me it is.

All is well Sister :love:

Thanks everyone for responding to this thread.

:heart:

Destee

Destee....so true. It's very hard to read something the way a person intended and that's why I'm working so hard to figure it out. Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it alot coming from you.

****
go away for 1 day an
look at the mess! :(

No destee i wont let it go
I wanna be clear on this.
Peace an thanks Baba Ahmed
Royal T
Two confusions
I was apologising for my reply
to your statement,
you said:

(speaking real slowly,lips all animated like talking to a china man)

"I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American."

Now,I know how the press can change ya words around, but
there aint no paparazzo in heere,
that statement sounded very
much like a proud African living in America,
had you have said "I FEEL I AM an African living in America I would have overstood your predicament. NOW,
you said
"I understood my role as an American,"
I aint even going to ask what that meant
(maybe destee knows):kiss:
(no offence but i feel like im...never mind)
I hope in future you will try a little harder to
communicate with the one who you have
a problem overstanding directly because in all honesty your invitation to criticism meant I almost had to take it up with everyone else you involved (thats very ignant, **** an i was tryna apologise).
Anyway I do tend to give many
dimensions in my posts so I apologise for giving you more than
you bargained for but generally aint women
meant to do that multilogue thing?

Anything else?

Much love Fam.









*

I LOVE YALL....THAT'S ALL. I just wanted some clarification. Don't know if I'm beefing here, not being understood, or what. I almost feel insulted (don't know why), but I give up. Not even sure what we're discussing anymore..... aint women meant to do that multilogue thing? Huh? Ok, I said I quit...I love yall....I really do, but I don't know what's going on. I'll bow down and sit this one out!!! I'm a team player!!!


p.s. (JUST WANNA GET THIS TOGETHER...SORRY DESTEE)

HESAID:
[QUOTE]
(speaking real slowly,lips all animated like talking to a china man)

I hope in future you will try a little harder to
communicate with the one who you have
a problem overstanding directly because in all honesty your invitation to criticism meant I almost had to take it up with everyone else you involved (thats very ignant, **** an i was tryna apologise). [QUOTE] "

OK....I CAUGHT THAT PART AND I ACCEPT YOUR APOLOGY WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD YOU FAMILY THAT'S ALL. REALLY THAT'S ALL. THERE WERE NO INVITES TO CRITIICIZE. NONE. I FEEL IF I READ SOMETHING WRONG OF YOURS (IN ANY WAY), I'LL MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND NO MATTER WHAT. I GET IT NOW....SORRY AND THANKS. PEACE LUV.

HE SAID:
[QUOTE]no offence but i feel like im...never mind) [QUOTE]

I know you didn't finish, but none taken. :)



"I am African living in America. I wasn't American until Sept. 11, 2001. I indeed understand my role as an American."

My role as an American means....this is a greedy country. I know I'm in this social darwinistic society to get all and keep all, but I plan on getting and giving it back to my people in soooo many different ways. Nothing special on my part. I'm just in a position to do so.......that's all. :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

Baba Ahmed:
[QUOTE]See Royal_T that's experience flowing thru to us. And I'd guess some b n a Mama also. Notice how she darts all over pat'n this one on the head, rub'n the next one's back, lightly kiss'n another, stroking encouraging and even when challenging does it so that rarely do we read a lame brain rear'n up and bark'n at her or call'n her a whatever. I wonder sometimes does a person realize that her challenges when appreciated are stimulants to maybe re-think what's pushed out. 'Cause she knows once words ease or burst out there's really no call'em back. In her very quiet way she demonstrates humility w/o using the word itself! I dig her.

So diggit Royal_T while she comforts u, she also drops wise words into your eyes/soul. Yet u continue to beef; let me say sumpin: leave people's intentions alone. In cyland u can not see their actions [QUOTE]

I UNDERSTAND FULLY.....I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU! AND AMEN!!!:) :) :D :D :D :D :D

S'all gooood!

Now le me go peep ya melon
in the picture section!
BRU!

(Its Okay is a joke!)
:D
much love.

Im an "Original Man". I don't have a problem being called "Black" because being "Black" is natural! Black People are the Original people of this planet, the Mothers and Fathers of humanity. "Black" is the essence of Life!

Afrika is the first part of the Earth where life has sprang from, the cradle of civilization.

I rep being Afrikan with pride, for it is a title that describes the Original people.

I would have to say that I am an American of African decent also.

If we are talking about what others call us.....Why is it that we do not hear that current Africans do not call us African...they call us American.

When a child is born in Missouri and moves to California at the age of 2 and someone asks where he/she is from they will say California 99 percent of the time. He or she may qualify the statement by saying that I have people from Missouri at the end of the statement.

So I choose to say that I am American because my family has been here for 280 years and along with other slaves built this country. If you had built the house you currently live in...would you call the apartment you were born in home but no longer have family there home?

It has always been the white mans goal to make us feel like we don't belong here. But we built it (especially the south) with our blood, sweat, tears, and hearts, how can we not belong? And guess what...if you ask someone for modern day Kenya if we in the states are African, they will laugh when they give an infatic NO! LOL...if we traveled over there and were asked what are we and with a distinctive accent(to them) said we were African do you not think they would laugh us out of the country?

So if whites say we don't belong here, and Africans say we don't belong there then the question is Where do WE have the RIGHT to call home? IMHO it would be where my family has resided for almost 300 years and spent their lifetime trying to making it better for me. Wouldn't that stand to reason?

As someone pointed out...Some of us were slaves in African too....and were traded to Europeans for bull. They did not just invade and take us. They were invited by Africans!!!!

Are my ancestors from African..yes. But after almost 300 years of being here I would say that makes me American...and aparently so says those in Africa today.

I don't think we can stereotype Africans as not claiming us (American born folk). I know many Africans that have told me I was African without me asking their opinion. I also had an Ethiopian man some years ago tell me "Jesus was Black like you, he had hair like you and all before the Johnny come latelys showed up." That one took me by surprise because I was ringing him up at work and had never seen him before in my life. He just looked me in the face with concern and felt the need to let me know that. It was cool and I think African born people do love us, but some of them may not know how. Just a thought.

wow ! how did i miss this one?

so, f a pregnant cat crawls n2 a warm (but not too warm) oven on a cool day, & gives birth, whatcha gonna call em, biskits?

:laugh: :laugh:

well, i kno this is not the poetry thread, but since i hv nvr posted a poem at destee b4, i ask u destee 2 pls overlook this & hope its not a violation of the rules or anything. i wrote this over 6 yrs ago when i was feeling esp afrocentric (yes, it waxes & wanes at times) & it really fits the topic ? to a t. u'll find my answer 2 ur ? at the end.




how can i make u understand?
luv 4 an unknown motherland
how real to me these yearnings seem,
a place where we can live our dream

how can connection really b,
4 this place so far from me
who think not n terms of i but we
will it bring out the best n me?
can its power change my destiny?

something I realized long ago
it's not an option i have 2 go
this pilgrimage will help me grow
relight my burned out inner glow
2 many secrets i must know,
so many debts 2 her we owe

vast beyond imaginings
contrasts starvation & diamond rings
i ve thought it could b paradise
her quiet beauty does so entice
i seek her counsel & advice,
am i willing thou 2 pay the price

telebroadcast scenes of famine & drought
inapparent causes r not thought about
impoverishment unencumbered throughout
suffering & death 4 europes clout

profiteers 4 unjust gain
heap on my homeland endless pain
they aren t concerned w/repercussions,
f it's not 4 profit there r no discussions

no matter how long & hard she screams & hollers,
they see afrika n terms of dollars

her mineral wealth must all be taken
irrespective of health & lives 4saken
a portion of me must still reside,
events there can instill such pride

i know that we r still connected
b/c my core is so affected
by news of risks the continent is taking,
or triumphant progress my families making

some identify w clothes or cars
they still don t know quite who they r
but 3 piece suits or burlap bags,
both will decay & become rags


don t focus on my outerwear,
thru verse i lay my soul out bare
they say don t make waves, go w the flow
they ll be sucked down w/the undertow

others may flock to france or greece,
europe can t make my longings cease

portrayed as natural disasters & plague,
but the tragedies r oft man made
w/a spirit hardship cannot defeat
w/an almost feminine mystique

a treasure trove garden retreat
w/every pleasure ur heart may seek
yet thousands die even as we speak
from far more than not enough to eat

isolation keeps her dependent & weak,
boundary lines she must delete
prospects 4 uniting r far 2 bleak,
separated, she simply can t compete

the poverty, squalor, death & sorrow
juxtapose w/the grandeur of killamanjaro
never will she attain whats best
aping greediness of the west

the solution to the racial fights
is brotherly luv, not civil rights
earth's greatest need is 4 advancement
n the science of luving others enhancement

w/diamonds oil gold & bauxite
few can match her mineral might
no land can match her vast potential
no where else has been so influential
my respect 4 her is reverential,
the whole globe was once so deferential
she must c europes role as wholly non-essential
& its culture, properly, inconsequential

until we re there we can never be home,
our ignorance led us 2 disown
this land of which the least is known,
n untapped potential she stands all alone
where lifes 1st fruits 2 the world were shown

physically huge but not full-grown,
r solid future seeds now being sown?

work toward the goal of being pan,
ignore the borders from europes klan
we wrote the bible & the koran,
we must unite while we still can

could journey 2 a distant shore
strengthen me & make me more ?
will i feel that i ve been there b4 ?
such contemplation's about whats n store

rich colored fabrics tribal dress,
warmth of an afrikan caress
varied dialects, melodic tones,
familial kinship so often shown
mysteries that will remain unknown,
the pride we share talking of home

no matter how i dress or where i stand,
my luv & longings 4 the motherland
intertwined by choice, design & plan,
so as long as i b black & b a man
from inside out i m AFRICAN



again, gr8 ? & i ve enjoyed & identified w soooo many of the replys 2 it. destee 4 president! :toast:

I cant speak for everyone but
I think that was pretty appropriate
bit long but appropriate.

Doc Parker !!!! :toast: that was beautiful !!!!! :love:

Thank you for sharing ... got me over here smiling and smiling ... wow ... what a wonderful way to present your poetry ... you got some more?? ... oohhh what's going to be nice ... is to hear you speak this peace on the mic ... yess yess yess ... we gotta figure out why you can't get in ... can hardly wait to hear you speak this peace ... as i read it, i felt you speaking it ... but i wanna actually hear you ... www.*************/chat ... it's gotta happen ... :wink: ... thank you for sharing Doc Parker!

:heart:

Destee

Hi people,
I'm a continental African, so I don't know if my views are
welcome or not, but I'll say what ima say. I have read several of
the views in this thread, and here I'll attempt to address some
of the views expressed. ( It's gonna be a bit long )

It's not up to continental Africans to tell black/African Americans
who they are. Identity should be a process of self definition and
not labels given by other people. So it shouldn't matter what
continental Africans think. If you feel African, and call yourself
African then I guess you are. Pay no attention to anyone who
tells you different. On the flipside if you don't feel African, and
don't call yourself African I guess you're not. QED.

A brother asked how Africans will receive him, if he went on a
visit. I tell ya, some people will look at you and see only $dollar$
signs (it happens ). Some might see you as a their ticket to
getting a visa to come to the USA. Other people on the other
hand will be genuinely pleased to see you. They will put you up
at no expense, take you around the historical sights, markets,
nightclubs etc. Even the villages to see the traditional rulers. At
the end of it, they'll send you off with some mementoes. Any of
you who visits the continent should be prepared to take the good
tha bad and the ugly all in your stride !!! Continental Africans in
the USA have also had to put up with similar attitudes I gather.

I live in the UK, and when I first got here in the 1990s, Africans
were dished out a lot of disrespect by the local Black British and
Afro-Carribean folk. Young and old dissed us because of our
accents, mocked our names/surnames and some even made
monkey sounds whenever they heard us speak our language !!!
My old landlady Jamaican landlady at the time told me she would
not allow me to have any friends in the house, because Africans
were loud, uncouth and shouted a lot when speaking their
language. I told her that Carribeans shouted a lot too, when
speaking Patois and other Carribean creole languages. She later
back-pedalled after that. Some have complained to me that
Africans call them slaves, my reply was that any African who
called them slave, must have first been called a bushman by the
Carribean folks. They used to call us 'African boubou'. Some of
them dissed Africans for not speaking the Carribean dialect, or
for not being able to 'chat black' - the black British version of
Ebonics/AAVE.

There were so many other things but I do not want to go into
that, cos things have changed a bit over the years and there is
no sense going over old ground. In any case lot of Black-Brits
and Afro-Carribeans still have anti-African prejudice, but it is not
so blatant nowadays.


To be fair, there were, and still are, some very decent,
well mannered and polite Black-Brits and African-Carribeans
who do/did not treat Africans disrespectfully, kudos and
big up to them. Also there were/still are some very ignorant and
disrespectful Africans, so maybe its a case of "he who is without
sin, cast the first stone".


I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time ?
In closing I would like to make a few more statements and ask
a few questions.
I know their is a lot of spite and hatred towards us because of
slavery and the current state of Afric, from the diaspora Africans.
However, I would say that a lot of continental Africans
wouldn't have very deep feelings of black brotherhood with
diaspora Africans who demean, despise, ridicule and belittle us
continental Africans. You can't disrespect and persecute us on
the one hand, then call for black people to stick together, and us
to join hands with you on the other. ( I have heard of some of
the experiences of fellow continental Africans now living in the
USA, some of their experiences are similar to the UK based fellow
Africans ) .

So my African/black American brethren, what is it you want from
continental Africans:
i) Living in the USA ?
ii) in Africa ?


Lady Destee, pls feel free to move my question onto another
thread if this one is inappropriate. Thanx.

Regards

Hi people,
I'm a continental African, so I don't know if my views are
welcome or not, but I'll say what ima say...

We're thankful you did...it was needed...a different perspective. I appreciated it. Thank you.

Thank you araegba
you have made your points very clear...with much respect.
Peace

Revolutionary Greetings Pan-African Organizers,

We hope everyone is in good revolutionary spirits and practices. The summer months are really moving along. We just wanted to add a few words.

As sure as Africa is our parent, is as sure as we are the children of Africa and NATURALLY we are AFRICAN PERIOD!!! The best way that we can qualify our identity is three pronged.

Firstly, we have a shared history as a (whole) people like no other; and everywhere you go you will find us in the same disorganized and politically devastated conditions.

Secondly, we are socially the same. That is we interact with ourselves basically the same even if one Africa speaks Ayitian Kreole or West African Wolofo or English or Spanish. In addition, we overwhelmingly are spiritual or religious and believe in God, Chi, Yembe or whatever!

Thirdly, we are fully packaging a Mandinga supply of melanin. We in fact physically look basically the same and everyone of us got a cousin, sister, or brother in Africa and somebody will tell you, you know there is an African in my village in Chad who looks like you and who acts like you. WOW!!

These are just facts. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. When the African ran from the ******* he couldn't hide among other folk. Even the Mulatto was under scrunity.

And well, if we don't know we are African period and one people period the police sure in HELL knows. Don't they?

And don't be confused by the name Africa. Yeah it could be name after Tom, ****, Harry, Mary, Christine or Jane, but all the other names don't exist but in our minds and the world does not recognize them. Africa is on the map baby! And if you want Akebuland, then naturally you gotta free AFRICA NOW!

Is that right? Well All-Africans we gotta burn out. PEEEACE!

Originally posted by araegba


So my African/black American brethren, what is it you want from
continental Africans:
i) Living in the USA ?
ii) in Africa ?




To answer both questions. I want us all to come together as the Afrikan family we are. I want Afrikans in the USA and the Motherland to put this foolish sterotypical views behind us and embrace each other. When ever Continental Afrikans come to the U.S, I want us U.S blacks to except them with open arms and vise versa when U.S Blacks come to Afrika.

This may be off the subject a bit, but I want us U.S Blacks to stop crying about how Afrikans helpped sold us into slavery. We are all the victims of oppression by one common enemy(White Supremacy). U.S-Afrikans are suffering from mental slavery while Continental-Afrikans are suffering from mental colonialization. We are all in this together and we are FAMILY.

I was shocked when I read some of these responses. I would think people at this site would know better but I see the divide and conquor plan has really done a successful job.

Welcome to our forums! :wave:

It was a pleasure to read your post because so often we discuss the differences between continental Africans and African Americans in terms of how we feel toward each other. I'm glad that you felt comfortable enough to share your perspective as a continental African. I found what you wrote to be very interesting and it made me think a lot about your questions at the end.

I don't know that I want anything FROM Africans living in the USA or in Africa. More than anything right now, I think it's more important for me to work on me. To acknowledge the truth about my own identity, continue learning to love who I am and where I originally came from and to work hard to destroy the pathological conditions in society that are destroying us internally and externally.

Once I get my head right and my thoughts become clear, then I think I will be able to share this knowledge with others to help them experience the same "freedom."

I hope you continue to post here araegba. You're more than welcome to be here with us and I appreciate your openess.

Peace. :)

I would love to believe that by identifying myself as African I could in some way empower people of African descent around the world. However, since I am a child birthed in America, of varying ethnicities, would I be righteous if I did so? Would I not in turn be denying my Native American grandmother? It would be so much easier, I suppose, if one could view oneself as 'pure'. Purity notwithstanding, I am the product of all of my ancestors - no matter their skin color, or their ethnicity. Could I exist had they not been who they were? I have tried in my daily life to embrace those aspects of my heritage that are appealing to me, and the others I ignore.

African peoples, by this I mean people I have met who have migrated to the US from the African continent, have yet to begin to view themselves by a single identity. We have mistaken labels with true unity. What unity is there in labeling ourselves African when a Zambian, a Nigerian, and a South African still consider themselves different? They don't refer to themselves as African, they designate the country of their birth. Is this good? Is it right? Is it even relevant?

When people begin to take the larger view, we are all citizens of the same planet, maybe then we can see some progress. Maybe then there can be some resolution to the racial issues surrounding people of African descent. It is easy enough to take the verbal/easy ruote and say we are making a difference. But to truly make a difference we need to be more involved. We can never govern the way in which we are viewed by others, but if we change the way we view ourselves, others will be forced to change their views.

Mainly, I think that the idea of labeling ourselves African rather than African American, is an illusion . We need only to read a little history to realize that though Africa may be viewed as some great Mecca for people of color, and though she is the cradle of humanity, civilization, and knowledge; she and her peoples are not blameless. We have committed genocide, patricide, self hatred, enslavement in our own right. Our African foreparents often chose to accept the influence and ideas of the eurocaucasian immigrant. They chose to ignore their birthright for more obvious and immediate pleasure. Even now, there are many who would rather accept the eurocaucasian image of beauty, art, and intellect.

I would rather not have the need to wear a label - I am the culmination of many years of selective breeding - I am me. Sufficient. To identify myself as a color is ridiculous to me. But to identify myself as only one part of my racial heritage is equally ludicrous.

After arriving in Africa Tanzania and getting over the similarity of the market place to the carribean I was put up for one
night by (not a hotel but) the CABBIE who took me from the Airport(SHELTERED).That evening his wife cooked food for me(MAINTAINED) and we watched a video(ENTERTAINED) next day he went to work & left me in his house sleeping while he went to work(TRUSTED).
I watched this bull trying to hump a cow for the
rest of the day till he came home and drove me
to the sleeper train.(CHAUFFERED)Which he went to buy my ticket for.
He asked me for NADA in return but i gave him
a little money and exchanged email.
After that show of human
spirit which we have clearly lost,
I dont dare or care to politic.

Me im AFRICAN.

I'm keepin my opinions short...I'm African-American, If I went over there, I would be called an American.. Africans don't see Americans in the same light as they do other Africans...We're from a different culture, we grew up differently....I don't care how many dishiki's you put on, How big you fluff your fro'. If you were born in America, you are an American. An AFRICAN-American...Most African's can't look past the America part.......

And I'll visit this site tomorrow and probably get murdered for my opinions. but I don't care :)

SwtT..I won't murder you...you my peoples!! LOL but a lot of Africans DO see us as African...we shouldn't stereotype ... I know a load of Africans that would share their world with you in a second and want to know you inside and out. It's lack of education on both our parts...considering we go through the same crap everyday on two different continents. Is that a coincidence?

After giving this some thought I have come up with a few questions...

Are we seeking to be Identyfied by the color of our skin? Because when we call ourselves African doesn't that include (white) Africans?
Every person on this earth has their origins in Africa. So are we to call all people Africans? If not, what are the determining factors? As far as I can tell on this fourm, it seems to be skin color. If that is the case then shouldn't we distinguish ourselves from the other races of Africa by calling ourselves black or something else?

As for me...I can't wait to go to Africa and maybe someday call it home...but for now I am left with the cliche "home is where the heart is" and for me now it is here with my people who struggle every day.

Good questions A007 but those whites aren't indignous to Afrika. If you're refering to the dutch or boors of south Afrika, they're really Europeans who has been living in Afrika for a period of time.
As for the North Afrikans, those are really Arabs. There's a difference between an indignous and non-indignous Afrikan.

Just like here in Amerikkka, we're not American, we never were American. The true Americans are the indignous natives. We're Just Afrikans or Europeans who has been here over a period of time.

i consider myself black...i have no problem with the african struggle, but right now my priority/loyalty is to the struggle of blacks in america....besides if you let labels stick then you are a conformist and will allow almost anything....can't do it!!!!

@Baba Ahmed
Thanks bru that story depicts the same thing
its like Africa can teach us some of the things weve lost but we got to overstand that soon because they are fast becoming car jackers & Robbers from the cable influence. My point being
if we are gonna use the term African American
we must recognise we have a responsibility
because African Brothers are watching and
copying us.

One love bru we glad we agrre on this
important matter.
:toast: <-- (thats coconut water)

Hi folks I'm back again,
I'll try answering all your points in here.

Someone asked about the separation into nationalities and
ethnicities on the continent. Everyone knows, different Euro
colonisers divied up the continet into respective colonies for
their own financial gain. Africans led by people like the late
great Kwame Nkrumah and Julius Nyerere wanted an African
super-state since the 1950s/1960s, however not all Africans
were in agreement. The current Africans Union may be seen as a
partial fulfilment of that dream, however the leader of Libya
colonel Ghaddafi seems to see Africa as an extension of Arabia.
He wants a single African state, with the capital in Tripoli, Libya's
capital, and Arabic as the official language. I don't believe this is
in Africa's interest to have an Arab emperor.

And despite our ethnical and national differences, we do still see
each other as Africans, but Africans with different flavours !!!
There is no single standard flavour of Africanness, every ethnic
and national group brings there own flavour to the table of
Africanity. So there is nothing wrong with those differences as
long as they are handled with maturity, respect and understandin
g.

As an individual I feel deeply embarrassed by the slavery, then
colonisation and now neo-colonisation. However, that does not
mean I should now go around kissing the backsides of diaspora
Africans. It will never happen, take note Baba Ahmed who has
accused me of dishonesty !!! If diasporan Africans want the
continentals to pay reparations to them, I suggest they take it
up with the African Union. Set up organisations, let your hiphop
and reggae artists sing about it, till you drive it home to folks
back on the continent.

Baba Ahmed, what I said about diasporan Africans hating
continentals is true. I have heard and talked to a lot of
Carribean and black brits who have said they HATE us
Africans for slavery among other things. As for the harrassment I
talked about, I would say a large majority of Africans who arrived
in the UK during the 1990s experienced. For those who arrived
in the 1980s, it was worse for them than for us later arrivals.
When we arrived, we found most Africans would pretend to be
Carribeans as this was socially acceptable. British raised African
kids were raised as either Carribeans or straight up black-brits.
Nowadays (in London at any rate ), this hostility seems to have
calmed down a bit, or gone underground.

I would not like that to happen to my kids if I stay here. I would
prefer to raise mine as Africans who happen to be residing in the
UK. I live in a predominantly black neighbourhood myself, with my
neighbours being Black-British, Carribeans as well as continental
Africans in roughly equal numbers. This kind of arrangement will
enable each community to have their unique identity while relati-
ing to one other. ( All these communities go to the same clubs,
churches, restaurants, work together etc, as well as interacting
with other racial communities, so it's not so bad anymore ).
I have also only ever dated blacks (Africans, Caribs Black-Brits).
I can not vouch for other Africans, or Africans living in America,
but that has been my own preference.

Baba Ahmed, it seems you will like to have the power to dictate
us where we should live or who we should date as continental
Africans. It is as if continentals should be like little brothers to
you playing big brother. I do not believe continental Africans
should live under African-American/diasporan-African supervision.

I believe that continentals should not live in your shadow.
They do not require your permission/approval in the way they
choose to live their lives. Africans in the USA have a right to live
where ever they please. They should not become zombies being
directed by their Afram brethren in the name of reconciliation for
slavery. Unity does not mean one group should act as a
policeman over the lives of other groups. Unity, is forging an
alliance based on common interests and purposes as far as
I am concerned.

Baba you accused me of dishonesty in your response, I would
say I found your your response downright rude and insultive.
However, thanx for your honesty. One more question Baba, why
do you want continental Africans to live in African-American
neighbourhoods ? Date African-American women ? It may look
like a silly question, but I want you to articulate why you take
offence at Africans over these things.

Regards to everyone who has read and/or responded.

Originally posted by Pharaoh Jah
As for the North Afrikans, those are really Arabs. There's a difference between an indignous and non-indignous Afrikan.


I'm having difficulty understanding this view. Are you then advocating that only African peoples with darker skin tones should be allowed to consider themselves African? How does this relate to Americans of African descent? Are those of us who are lighter skinned not to be identified as African? On the larger scale aren't all of us, regardless of shade considered the same? People who are inclined to call a dark skinned sister ****** will use the same word to refer to a lighter skinned sister.

he: ur right, it is a bit lengthy, but then, whats the proper length 4 a poem? i ve had my eye on a couple of lines that cld b deleted w/o losing much.

destee: u so sweet! :spin: givin out props lik candy. :luv: much appreciated tho. yes, actually i hv quite a bit, but i sometimes feel like poetry gets lost here (mo offense). its a gr8 poetry site, but the volume is sometimes overwhelming. & then, as has been pointed out, there is the ? of length. when i write, i don't really think about length. since i 'm not overly concerned about publication, i write till i feel i've said what i wanted 2 say. i sense that u got the messege of this piece loud & clear, & even f i don't get n2 voice chat, there may b another way 4 u 2 hear it sometime. :shades: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

baba: it has been my pleasure 2 read & lrn from many of ur posts. imho, u bring the wisdom of the griot 2 the house.:teach: :teach: 'preciate the props. oh, destee 4 prez of whateva she wants 2b prez of

araegba: hi & welcome.:wave: enjoyed reading ur post. b lik me, don't worry 'bout length, no 1 'round here is payin by the page:lol:

'It's not up to continental Africans to tell black/African Americans
who they are. Identity should be a process of self definition and
not labels given by other people. So it shouldn't matter what
continental Africans think. If you feel African, and call yourself
African then I guess you are. Pay no attention to anyone who
tells you different. On the flipside if you don't feel African, and
don't call yourself African I guess you're not. '


my sentiments precisely & well said. since when do we let other ppl define us? looklin 4ward 2 reading more from u.

Doc Parker ... you're right, our poetry forum is so very active, post a peace one minute and it's on the back page before you blink ... but i'd keep posting to yours, moving it back to the top ... and don't let the question of length dissuade you ... long or short really makes no difference, so long as the quality is there ... and you have demonstrated that :) ... i did see your post to the other conversation we're having and am continuing to look into that for us, and i love doing it, so please don't feel you're a burden or any such thing as that ... but gosh, now you got me sorta kinda hope'n you won't be able to get into chat ... :wink: ... just kidding, i do want you with us ... i'll post to that other thread as soon as i know something else we need to try.

:heart:

Destee

I'd like to Welcome all the new Family Members that have posted in this thread ...

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Kuumba chi nia :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Pharaoh Jah :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Blaquebutterfli :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Cypher :wave:

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaaay Araegba :wave:

Thank you all for joining in and making yourselves right at home. Brother Araegba, you mentioned that you may not be welcome here or something to that regard ... please please please ... nothing could be further from the truth ... you are most very welcome and if anyone makes you feel not welcome, please let me know !!! I thank you for the information regarding African Languages and i look forward to hearing your accent in voice chat soon ... www.destee.com/chat ... for that matter, i look forward to hearing all of you in voice chat soon. Brother Araegba, i want to invite you to teach us an African Language in voice chat, but you are so new here and i don't want to put you to work before you even have a chance to get comfortable, so i'll wait a few more days :wink: We have such a great opportunity to come together, dispel myths, build together, and make a difference in our own lives and those of Sisters and Brothers we don't even know ... we are blessed that our paths have crossed here. Please know that you are at home.

:heart:

Destee

Originally posted by blaquebutterfli

I'm having difficulty understanding this view. Are you then advocating that only African peoples with darker skin tones should be allowed to consider themselves African? How does this relate to Americans of African descent? Are those of us who are lighter skinned not to be identified as African? On the larger scale aren't all of us, regardless of shade considered the same? People who are inclined to call a dark skinned sister ****** will use the same word to refer to a lighter skinned sister.



What Im trying to say is that many North Afrikans have no "Afrikan Blood" what so ever. Those are the same people who came and slaughter the indignous Afrikans of the land. Afrikan Americans are indignous Afrikans because we carry the Afrikan genes, which is dominent making every other gene recessive. Afrikans come in many colors but many of those North Afrikans are really Arabs who has been occupying the land for centuries. THOSE ARABS ARE NOT LIGHTSKIN AFRIKANS!. If you feel that way than you probably have no problem with them taking credit for building Kemet when in fact it was Blacks who were responsible for that great civilization.

Oh come now, facts are facts, please do not insult my intelligence or intellect. Any informed person is aware that Blacks are responsible for the building of Kemet. My question was not in refernce to Arabs but to persons of African descent who are of lighter pigmentation.

Yes a lightskin person is still an indignous Afrikan because they carry the trait, the genes which is the most dominent, they probably lack pigmentation due to inter-mixing but every other gene is recessive to Black genes. They still carry Africoid charateristics such as kinky hair, brown eyes, thick lips, broad nose or any other Africoid features.

Is that it?

Yes, Pharoah Jah...and I might add:

If the European slave traders had been successful in their attempts to enslave the Indian, there would have been no need for them to have gone to Africa for slaves. The Indian chose death rather than slavery, forcing the European to go to Africa for slaves. This resulted in the creation of a new race: the light-skinned African-American man and the light-skinned African-American woman.

("All things work for the good in God's kingdom.")

There are three beautiful shades of Blackness: (1) the light-skinned brothers andsisters, (2) the brown-skinned brothers and sisters, and (3) the dark-skinned brothers and sisters. Here is an interesting analogy...

These three beautiful shades of Blackness relate to the water in a well. For example:

The light-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water at the top of the well; the brown-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water in the middle; and the dark-skinned brothers and sisters represent the water at the bottom of the well. It is all water, which means we're all the same. The water at the bottom - represented by the dark-skinned brothers and sisters - is the water that went in first!

The light-skinned brothers and sisters are the surface of a dark, deep well, as the late, great Curtis Mayfield so eloquently put it...

Aqil I agree with everything you said but aren't one of the reasons the indians weren't slaves was because their immune systems wasn't build for the work we did?

xPeter wrote: Having been on the African Continent much of the last year I can tell you how we were received. Weather in Egypt, Ethiopia, Senegal, or Ghana. Togo, Gambia, or Benin the Black African People considered us brother or sister. The elder would ask "what has taken you so long to come home". Welcome home is what we here even from the Arabs in Egypt. When in southern Egypt were they look llike a Harlem or South Central they point to their skin and say "Nubian...Nubian". I never received as much welcoming from a Black African people as I do when I am in West Africa. Thgey aree so much more healthy physically and mentally than the average African-American. Especially physically.

I am a "Black African-American. A slave descendant. When they ask us overseas if I am from Europe or Jaimaica I say we are Black Africans from America. PT Botha daughter could come to the US and be considered a African American. Black is a distinction. Not to just refer with skin color along but also the mindset and whats in the heart. We define what "BLACK" is not someone else. We know based on our experience and relationship in the world with others.

Black in the english language is an "adjective". There is no "black land". A person's name should reflect land, history, and culture. We are not origins of north or south America. Biological and phenotypically we are African. But a person has a right to disclaim polictically their heritage in place for another.

Hotep

Well said....Isanusu

Baba Ahmen:

I know of the neighborhood ["The Prison Gate" community of Black Palestinians?] there along the Crescent strip in Israel. Black Africans are called "Cushee ... Cushee" instead of the "N word" as we have come to hear it in some places around the world.
There is no land mass called "Black Land" There is a Italy for Italians, and a Spain for Spainards but no "Black Land" on the map where I Black African Children can identify.

[But a person has a right to disclaim polictically their heritage in place for another.] Many People of African descent claim they are just "HUMAN" or just "AMERICAN" I for one will not spend time arguing with them no more when one say they were born "Chirstain" or "Jew" or they are just "American"

Yes you do not give energy calling on ancestors and you are using make shift names. That is one reason why nothing nevers happens. "True to our God.. True to our native land" as in Lift every voice. What was the pronounciation of "Our God" "Our land". When you call on the wrong god nothing happens. When you call on the spirtits of an Ancestor and it is not the correct name, nothing happens. Sort of like entering the wrong pin number.

I see more opportunities for Black African-Americans in Africa. There you have true affirmative action. While in Ethiopia in Asum we were going to breakfast at a restaurant early in the morning. When we came to the entrance, we seen that a group of whites were seated inside. The owner ask us to wait a minute and went in and ordered the whites out side to be seated and told us happily to come on in. It was cool that morning, the whites were looking pake but they accepted the situation. They knew they were not in their land. We have experienced similiar circumstances in airports in Togo. It is your land and you make your people comfortable first. I also stand aside for the women of these countries to go first and the elderly.

The ability to return and visit or live back in the land of your ancestors is a issue of reparations. All Black People should have the opportunity to experience what I have. I am moving back.

Hotep

You speak truth to power, Isanusu...al hamdu-l-'lah.

Re: the topic of this thread:

The name “African-American” is our final and official appellation. Final because the name truthfully defines both who and what we are: Black people born in America of African descent...

The truth of the matter is this: Most Caucasians dislike referring to us as African-Americans, because in doing so they are simultaneously acknowledging the fact that we have defined ourselves...after 400 years of their definitions, such as: “negroes,” “negras,” “negress,” “********,” and “colored people.”

Now some people say that there is only one race – the human race. And this is a true statement. But even though all human beings are members of the human race, all members of the human race are not the same. We need only to look at nature for a perfect example of this statement. You see, every eagle is a bird, but every bird is not an eagle. Similarly, every white man is a human being, but every human being is not a white man!

This planet is inhabited by almost six billion human beings – the human race. And five distinct classifications make up the Earth’s family, namely (1) the black race (Africans, African-Americans, and people the world over of African descent, e.g., Jamaicans, Haitians, Bahamians, Trinidadians, etc.), (2) the brown race (Arabs, Asian Indians, Iranians, Pakistanis, and most Hispanics, i.e., Spaniards, Portuguese, Mexicans and Latinos), (3) the red race (Native Americans, North American Indians, i.e., the Eskimos, and South American Indians), (4) the yellow race (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Filipinos), and (5) the white race, or Caucasians – people of European descent...

(There is also a group of people known as the Jews, who are a hybrid or mixed people, and therefore cannot be classified as a race.)

Black is a color, true, but the word also defines a race of people. The same can be said for brown, red, yellow and white. When I say that I am an African-American, I am saying at the same time that I am a Black man born in America of African descent. It is just that simple...

So, to put it correctly, we in this country who are the descendants of African and African-American slaves are African-American members of the Black race. It is indeed a most honorable appellation...

Peace brother Aquil, indeed as a name
African American can be accurate as a description, but as history has it the American part of the title has indeed tarnished the African part and I am quite certain Our transgression continues due to this contribution by lower demon psychological
manipulators to our once pure name, i accept your description as it is necessary but cultures are best preserved when left pure.
As with all things the psychology of belonging (as William lynch well knew) deteriorates with
coupling words as does with the word bisexual and of those trying to play the middle role of black and white with mixed race,a certain confusion almost consistantly develops.
To add, our African brothers (as i have seen with my own eyes have (because of the African in our name) developed a car jacking, pimping,homosexual and getting high culture to our extended families detriment. I dont say this because i want to be right i just want us to be aware that this is really a
description and should have never been a title.

As ive quoted time again:

"How can we be the slave and the master at the same time?":confused:

Dead Prez
On being African Americans.



Salamalaikum bru.









*

I am Alkebulantaazar the Afrakan queen from Khamit, via Trinidad

I would like to add my opinion to the discussion.

Contemplating your post, I remember thinking in my teens 'I'm not African, I am Black. I have never been to Africa and I don't know anyone who is.'

I was still in highschool at the time. To designate myself as an 'African-American' was segregationist. Why section myself off from the rest of 'America'? They didn't call themselves 'white-Americans' or European Americans. They still don't.

Now, Africa is much more significant to me. But above even this is Oneness. But not just Black Oneness or American Oneness or African Oneness, but Human Oneness.

I no longer look at the surface structure of the people I meet, or don't meet, as the case may be. In my eyes they are all One: Human.

So I am not Black, African, American or any combination of the three. I am a Male Human, Earthling. Potentially the first of many.

My opinion, of course.

xPeter wrote: Slaves and dogs are named by their masters...only free men name themselves. (John Henri Clarke) . White supremacy does not recognise the part Indian in me, nor that I may be Muslim or Christain. They look at me as a ******. Always did and always will. If you were a citizen why do you need civil rights. If you were a human to them why declare at WCAR "a crime against humanity" what was and still is happening to you. A persons name should reflect land, history, or culture. Me I am a Black African born in the United states ...America. Black African-American. Former slaves, slave descendant. That what we are. May not like it but it is the truth. The course of events that led to us being here on the whole was either directly or in part associated with that - slavery. I am very proud to be a Black African, very much so.

Hotep

I personally consider myself african american or black. Technically we are not really black. We are a variety of colors. Where did that come from in the first place? I love my complexion which is reddish brown baby!

Enigma, The very first people on Earth were literally black. There's people in Africa who are midnight dark. Care to elaborate on how we're mixed with different colors?

What I mean we are mixed is that we range from extremely light to extremely dark. Depending on our heritage. We have alot different nationalities with in us. I feel we should embrace every aspect of ourselves.

xPeter wrote: When traveling on the continient and coming back to the US, you imediately notice the difference in the two people. The so called Black Woman does not have anything on her counter part on the continient especially those Senegal, Congo, Kenyan, Togo. Hallie Berry would be a laughing stock in Senegal. On Goree Island every two out of three is a Serena Williams. This is common place but not looked at in the same conotation. It is considered beauty period. After being there for a long period and coming here to the states and seeing the behavior and lack of culture I can agree and respect those who say "I am not a African". Probably the reason blanket citizenship is not offered to all.

Hotep

Here is a good book for those who are struggling with the issue. Recomended by Asa Hillard.

Hotep

http://www.geocities.com/afrikandieli/MarimbaAni

Enigma the way I see it. Genetically my Afrikan or blackness is the dominent gene. It has been scientifically proven that "black" genes are dominent while "white" genes are recessive. Light or Dark, we still carry a certain amount of melinin that white people lack. If a white parent produces a seed with a black perent. The child is black since the black parent's genes are dominent. So of course Im going to embrace my African roots to the fullest however I do embrace my Native American side also. As for that 1% of European blood in my vains....never that... My great great grandmother dating back to slavery was raped by her master. My European side enslaved my Afrikan parents and stole this land from my Native American relatives. Sure I have to accept the fact that I have a European branch on my family tree but I don't have to embrace it.

Does anyone mind if I ask a question? Of course it's rhetorical, but I'll keep it short: Why even ask this question?

What purpose does it serve? To further segregate the already segregated? This subject came up on a carribean board and was almost as long as this one but what started the thread was an 'I-theopian' who was venting his anger at African Americans and their 'arrogance'.

It was surprising to me that, in their eyes, we African-Americans are 'different' from them. Black but not, 'really' African or Jamaican as such. And here, we ourselves have no real idea how to refer to ourselves. I personally thought the term 'black' was universal to everyone darker than 'white'. It was truly a disappointing revelation.

And this further disappoints in light of it. Not because it is a bad question to ask, but because the question must be asked at all.
But this is merely my observation, and it will be left at that.

xPeter wrote: Thanks to the N'trs

Here are two web sites which display the National Security Council Memorandum 46 and on what and who is "Black". No one is arguing with them of thgeir definition on "who is Black, who is African. Jimmy Carter the president who blacks adored was at the helm when this came down the pipe. Bill Clinton the who feel good Blacks consider the first "black president" was at the helm when the prison population began to swell to were 1.2 million out of 1.9 population is black. In esence the word does not have any thing to do with the shade of the complexion. There are Brown Blacks, Red Blacks, White Blacks and Blue Blacks. South Africans PT Botha and DeKlirk children could come to the US and be labeled a African American. But they can not be labeled "Black African-Americans", a slave descendant residing in the territory of the US. I have heard the Africans from he continient such as the Ethiopian, get involved in foolish arguments on skin shade due to mis education. Skin color is not only a major issue here in the US, but thoise who have traveled abroad will find out it is also in other white dominant countries. France, Russia, Germany, Brazil, Britain, Australia, Italy, North India, Israel, Palestine, and many others. And it will always be a major factor here in the US were the socalled black man and woman is at the bottom of every indicator of life. Does this mean give up, hell no. But Know thou self. Define thouself, and do for thou selve (s).

Hotep

http://www.finalcall.com/MEMORANDUM-46.htm

http://www.lists.kabissa.org/lists/archives/public/zimciv-list/msg00000.html

I've been reading this thread with interest, ever since it started.
But, I know that what xPeter said about the caste system in all these places are true for at least Latin America, where I have done some travel. To me it is worse than our good ol' boy Racism that we live and thrive within. I have only heard about it in Africa.
And the way it is in those places and the way people are literally treated (taking about L. Am) I would run to America, black as night, and cry that I am White too; Another reason I love being African-American.... or you can just call me Black-
I still, however, cannot see where our "coalitioning" with others who may or may not be "Black" have to do with our survival... until Black/African-American/Negros decide to coalition with each other none of that matters...
North Africans are considered white because they are Arabs...
I don't know what India Indians are considered... but there is no way I will even consider people who are basically darker than most of us--- White; but again, understood...They have the most poverty in the world (literally) and the worse Caste System.

Why are we still here? If you say that you are my brother or sister and you have no ill will towards my survival---what should it matter.

I'm with Smokey Robinson..."I love being called Black"

I am frail yet humane
Human, till the end
Spiritual in nature
Condescending man-

1poetsought ~

"What Im trying to say is that many North Afrikans have no "Afrikan Blood" what so ever"

everyone on the face of the earth has african blood, being that the entire human race decended from africa.... another thing, the first africans were reddish brown skinned, at least this is what i heard....The pygmies were reddish-brown, they soon spread out to the rest of africa and turned black in color, brown, even light brown, etc. so, BLACK african people can range in skin tone even without being "mixed".

If we go by "who has african blood," then whites could claim being african as well, that is if they wanted to.

I choose to call myself black.:)

We are a universal people, the original people. We have no beginning and we have no end. We are usually conceptualizing our perceptions, of who we are, to fit conditions and causalities. As I have said before, even TIME is a concept and historically names come and go. When did we first start calling ourselves African? Think about it? We need to be called what we know and perceive about ourselves RIGHT NOW, without excluding our spiritual, cultural or historical ancestry. What really counts is that, which is behind a name. Names are only symbols that direct you to something GREATER THAN THE NAME ITSELF! SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY EXIST!

First of all, a racial identifier or name is a Caucasian anthropological paradigm. Secondly, a reference to color becomes only a determiner, when someone shows up, usually extremely different from what you have seen (i.e. white folks). The oldest and broadest perspective is, that Africa is a continent in a sea of continents, in an ocean of worlds, in a universe of galaxies.

Remember, most people in the world have a name for their selves and a name they are called by others. Look into the history of most cultures and you will see this. Example, India was originally called Bharata, by the original inhabitants (Africoid people) and had no nationalistic boundaries.

How far are the borders of Africa, really? When does one place end and another begins. If Ivan Van Sertima is correct, in his book, THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS, we were here in the so-called Americas, when Europeans thought the earth was flat and when they weren’t even dreaming about America!

WE WERE PROBABLY ALL OVER THE WORLD BEFORE THE CAUCASOID COULD EVEN PERCEIVE HIMSELF, LET ALONE NAME HIS SELF!!

So, call your selves many things, for everything in the universe has many names.

LETS STOP BEING SO REACTIONARY, FOR WE WERE THE ONES WHO NAMED ALL THINGS AND INVENTED THE CONCEPTS OF SIGNS, SYMBOLS AND WORDS!!

Choose one or ALL of the below:

Black
Brown
Original Homo sapiens
Alkebu-lanian
Khemitic
African
African American
African Hebrew
African Asiatic
Nubian
Man
God
Or something else.

Lets refer to and expand on the teachers, of old, insights:

WHEN YOU SEE ME, YOU SEE GOD. WHEN YOU SEE GOD, YOU SEE ME. AND IF GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING, IS HE REALLY DEFINABLE.

MAYBE?
MAYBE, NOT.


Peace, love and Ashe,

Sun ship

P.S. - That's right!! I forgot to vote.

Here's my vote: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND NONE OF THE ABOVE. AND MORE.

Thank you, no matter what name we give ourselves...Tne fact will always remain that we're the original people. Africoids are universal!

100% AGreed!

I consider myself African and to one of the earlier posts it is true, north africans have little to no black blood, though some africans have their white blood i.e. hausas have some iberian in them.

Welcome Oba. Make yourself at home and enjoy your experience here. :)

Peace!

hmmmmm...I've finally arrived to the end of these posts,& I must say that TOO MANY OF US DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OURSTORY,because you are too focused on European history.....only Sekhemu,Isanusu,cypher,xPeter,happy69,Pharaoh Jah,& Lktpolit were seriously RAZORSHARP with their definitions of who we are,which is Khemetic,which means of the land of BLACKS,& Nubian....alright,Sunship,even though you went buckwild with some of your answers{with African attached to it} I still give you credit for mentioning that which NOONE ELSE has yet,which is [[[Alkebulanian]]],derived from Alkebulan, which is today FALSELY CALLED AFRICA. KMT,or Khemet{today FALSELY CALLED EGYPT} is the SOURCE OF GREATNESS OF ALL HUMANITY....this is where EVERYBODY within & outside of our Mother continent came in order to learn about SCIENCE,MATHEMATICS,ART,ARCHITECTURE,ASTROLOGY,TRU E RELIGION,MUMMIFICATON,etc....I WASN'T AROUND BACK IN OUR GENESIS,so I don't know what we called one another,however,I GO AS FAR BACK AS OUR HISTORY TAKES US TO DEFINE WHO WE ARE,so basically, it's all about RESEARCH: DO THE KNOWLEDGE TO OUR PAST,{by that of NUBIAN KNOWLEDGE,from Nubian scholars,not TRICKNOWLEDGY,aka Euro-knowledge,from European scholars}because without that our future shall remain VAGUE,Nubians....Even if you do define yourself within English terminologies,use something that the palebeast CANNOT label HIMSELF within the realms of the obvious....only words I can think of which fits us BEST on that scale is BLACK,BROWN,EBONY,& MELANIN DOMINANT. Remember,to study is not just for yourself, but for OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. What am I ? I AM KHEMETIC,or B.A.T.U.{Black As The Universe}




~Brown is my physical,Blackness is m