In the continuing sex wars between black males and black females, a new interloper is on the scene; and, so far, has escaped the wrath usually heaped upon white women. She comes in a variety of colors, often has a broad nose and thick lips and as a rule doesn’t have blue, grey, or green eyes; neither does she have blonde hair.

Enter the Asian woman. These women with dark, straight hair don’t have the Eurocentric looks that are passed off as the model for beautiful women.

"In most societies the scale of female desirability is primarily determined by what the men as a group perceive as most feminine or most attractive. Note that the word is ‘feminine’ rather than ‘beautiful.’ Some reports say Asian women are considered petite by most American men and are therefore perceived as more feminine than ‘white,’ ‘Latino,’ or ‘black’ women.”

It may come as a surprise to some African American women that “white” women have dropped to second place on the attractiveness scale among men in general. Asian women are showing up in rap videos, television and movies more frequently. Hollywood actresses such as Lucy Liu, Joan Chen, and Kelly Hu are getting roles once reserved for blacks.

Now, new studies show that that the most marriageable women in the United States today are “Asian” not Euro-American.” Is this a new competitor for black men? Yes. Are more black men dating and marrying Asian women? Yes. Why? Who knows, but as this trend moves forward, it brings into question that standard argument that Afro-American women are victims of the “Eurocentric” beauty standard.

So, what accounts for Asian women being perceived as the most feminine and African American women being perceived as least feminine and therefore least attractive? Most of it has to do with stereotypes reinforced by the media, but this does not account for the boost for women of Asian descent. Unfortunately, outside of the black community the black female most men are familiar with is the caricatures portrayed by African-American women in films and on television.

What other men see, are the black women who appear all too often as guests on the “The Jerry Springer Show;” and, the image projected is that of an in-your-face, hostile, neck undulating, head bobbing, finger pointing woman with insatiable sexual desires. It is the stereotypical “Sapphire” image we have long tried to dispel.

Obviously, these women are not representative of the entire black community, but there seems to be no outcry from African American women who don’t fit this stereotype. Nevertheless, large amounts of men, including black men, are “turned off” by crass sexuality, materially grasping and vulgarity. Sadly, we constantly reinforce this image; in rap videos and the roles we play in movies and television. Actors need to work, but the images on the silver screen and television screen leave lasting impressions and the impressions about black women are generally less than uplifting.

How big a role does the media play in this portrayal of black femininity? Clearly, it is nearly over powering, but not all of it is hype. The black community itself perpetuates these stereotypes by not saying anything. So, the next time we pick up a stone to throw at the “white woman” who are “stealing” our men we should be aware that we might be aiming at the wrong person. Who is the right person? Not being one to cast stones, I can’t say, but it would seem that a few boulders might fall in the black community.

Ra


:confused:

very well said

Writing this required careful thought because I wanted it to be clear that I was not picking on anyone. This is a piece of reporting--I am the messenger. This information is available in a lot of places. All I did, was bring it together as one piece and report it.

Ra

;)

indeed i feel ya the report show much display of thruth

It is always a touchy situation delaing with things that in some way may denigrate or marginalize the black community, especially when it comes to men and women and their perceptions of each other without risking the wrath of one or the other group. Still, it is interesting information. As an observer of people, it is not news about Asian women becoming more popular in the United States, but I was surprised at the femininity aspect. That is something I never gave much thought, but I guess it is something men consider in choosing a mate, just as a woman might also make masculinity a factor is choosing a mate. It is oneof those things that is not articulated well because like beauty, it is subjective. What I know of Asian women is largely what I have read or seen. I've only had one intimate relationship with an Asian women in my life and it was largely isolated, so I can't really draw anything from it in terms of all Asian women's femininity. I suspect that like any other group, there are winners, losers and whole bunch of in-betweens. Still, it makes me curious. Is it a fad? A new trend? Or, is it the opening of new opportunities for black men and women? I don't know, but it is interesting, especially considering how the European standard has held sway in the United States for so long. Is it a changing of the guard as white people become the minority? Or is it just an anomoly, an errrant blip on the social radar?

:confused:

I mean we can't fault men that like women. Be they white, Asian, Latino or Black. Some men do have a preference and they should not be knocked for it. Even still you do have to look at the fact that White and Asian women are put on this high horse of beautiful, but look at how they want bigger @sses and lips, hips and want to be darker than they really are. Want to dress and talk like Black women. Want to dance like us, get their hair like ours the whole nine yards. I see it as a compliment. They really want to be BLACK......

I consider myself to be very femenine. I have white men as well as brothers and Asian men looking at me and complementing me all the time. I just say different strokes for different folks. The media is magnifying this and turning a mole hill into a mountain.

Everyone can't look like the girl in the video. Shoot I blame all these magazines who have all these airbrushed images of women on the cover. Put a real woman on there for a change. I wouldn't give a rats @ss if every NBA player or NFL player had a white woman or an asian woman on his arm. That has never bothered me. I mean Shaq ain't paid none of my phone bills you know what I'm saying. I'll probably get jumped on for my statements but I don't care. It's time we start taking actions and stop talking about what is being taken from us. Stop making those near pornographic videos, stop teaching our little girls how to shake dance by age 5, and make them pick up a book and read it.

This is just my 2 cents worth anyway. Good topic as always Ra





One

Airbrushing--you nailed that--looking in a magazine anymore it's hard to tell what's real and what isn't--and implants, men and women get them so it's hard to tel what's live and what's Memorex--Still, as you said, it is a matter of taste--what one considers feminine--another won't--on another note--where did all these white women with ***** come from?--overnight, it seems like a crop of white women with ***** popped up--who are these women? It's all a matter of taste and preference and arguing the point is a losing propostion because no matter how much each group loves its own--its all subjective and in the eyes of the beholder.

Ra

;)

Amun-Ra,

What is the purpose of continuing this trend of so-called responsible and objective reporting whose purpose it seems is to ALWAYS point out to readers how Black women are constantly being passed over and less favored when compared to other women? If it wasn't a Black man writing it, I'd swear the person that waswore a white hood and burned crosses.

We see enough of this every day, read about it in the tabloids, see it on television--why do you keep shoveling and stirring this crap up? It's the worst kind of crap too, the kind that only allows weeds to grow...poisonous, suffocating weeds.

Do you think you're reporting something that is new and different? Do you think we're numb and blind to the reality about how Black women are perceived in this racist, blood sucking society? I wish some Black men who don't agree with you Amun-Ra would stand up, speak out and protest this kind or reporting. Aren't there any men out there that will show us that you're not a part of the statistics that Amun-Ra is describing? Come on and speak out in support of your sisters!!!

I don't have to put another woman down to prove or defend my sense of self-worth. White women, Latino women, Asian women, Indian women...who next? I am second to no one because my existence isn't determined nor controlled by men. And I don't have to report on the number of men and their races that find me attractive. That is NOT the point!

Maybe this says a lot about the differences between men and women and how we think but the point is I think this is GARBAGE and it reeks of the worst kind. I'm getting tired of being one of the few Black women, heck Black anything protesting this type of nonsense--but as long as it keeps coming, I'll comment!

:mad:

I wish some Black men who don't agree with you Amun-Ra would stand up, speak out and protest this kind or reporting. Aren't there any men out there that will show us that you're not a part of the statistics that Amun-Ra is describing? Come on and speak out in support of your sisters!!!

Not once did I say this was my opinion--not once, but this statement clearly points out that you think it is--so it is another case of attacking the messenger for bringing the news. And it is news to many.

Maybe this says a lot about the differences between men and women and how we think but the point is I think this is GARBAGE and it reeks of the worst kind. I'm getting tired of being one of the few Black women, heck Black anything protesting this type of nonsense--but as long as it keeps coming, I'll comment!

Good comments, but still the examination is missing. One of the things, I was looking for is to find out does anybody think there is any truth in this. I am looking for whys?

Still, it makes me curious. Is it a fad? A new trend? Or, is it the opening of new opportunities for black men and women? I don't know, but it is interesting, especially considering how the European standard has held sway in the United States for so long. Is it a changing of the guard as white people become the minority? Or is it just an anomoly, an errrant blip on the social radar?

Nothing has been adressed except the topic. I had a couple of responses that addres how the media helps paint thses pictures and they reflected thought on a distasteful subject, but decrying the subject doesn't change the story, it avoids it. Defend it you must, examine and debate, but dismantle the story, not the messenger.

Ra

:cool:

Amun-Ra ... why post information that belittles Sisters? Have you been contributing articles like this all the time and i've just not been reading them? I can't allow this to continue. Our community is about empowering black people, not tearing us down, or broadcasting reports that do. There are thousands of web sites that would jump up and down with joy to have a black man posting negative reports of black women while touting the wonders of all others, please take this to them. We have too much work to do here and you're really getting in the way.

Destee

LMAO,

Amun-Ra "where did all these white women with ***** come from?--overnight,"
True indeed!

Why doesn't anyone comment on the content--you don't like the message--give a better message--is everyone afraid of the message? Do they feel that it doesn't need to be commented upon? Hiding our heads in the sand makes it go away? I have been appalled by the lack of women willing to stand up and address the issue itself--of course I expected no reply from black men, but I did expect women to stand up with more than "they don't like the topic." I never back away from a controversial subject because I don't like it. I have no use for the Ku Klux Klan, never had and never will, but I can discuss it, I can dismantle it, I can even ridicule it, but I am not afraid of the subject.

Are we so snowed that we don't think these things are every day issues? Or, are we afraid of defending black women because not everyone will agree withour defense? News flash! Everyone won't agree with your defense, but it will be an honest assessment and it yours to boot.

In the future I will not post such things that require comment that every doesn't agree with--I'll make like these things aren't said or done and do the commenting or dismantling of these issues myself, apart and away from this page.

I will post only topics that we can all agree upon and not go against the grain for those who are quick to decry, but aren't so quick to present well reasoned, logical, positive defenses of what should be something that is easy to debunk. Still, I will respect that even though I don't agree with it. I will not bother to provoke thought on subjects no one wants to think about. The role of the devil's advocate is not appreciated here, so I will cease.

:devil:

I'm not even sure if I want to get involved in this conversation, but personally I did not see this particular thread/topic as being disrespectful to Black women. In my understanding the thread was mostly based on how the media displays specific views(stereotypes) of Black women and many times we as Black women ourselves(as well as Black men ) have taken on these views(stereotypes). It does seem that alot of what Amun Ra has said in this thread is real. It seems that an increasing nuber of Black men are interacting with women from other racial backgrounds(however this has been happening for generations) and I have seen an increasing Asian presence among Black men in the media( ex.videos) and I'm sure in the general population as well. The stereotype of an Asian woman( and I'm mostly concentrating on women who are Chinese, Japanese, etc..) is someone who is petite, obeys her mate/husband ex..geisha girl, and also a woman who knows her place in the home. To some men these stereotypes of Asian women are desirable and would lead them to think of the Asian woman as being feminine. Some things can be painful, but are we here to make each other only feel good or are we here to face certain issues even when they are uncomfortable and shouldn't seeking truth be the objective? I'm aware that no one asked me for my opinion, but I guess I wanted to add my own views anyway.

Amun-Ra ... with so many wounds that need to be healed, you stab us with a knife (post white folks negative studies of us as though it is truth) just to see how quickly the new wound heals or how many come to help stop the bleeding. You say you expected no Brothers to come to our aid, but you did expect us to fight back better than we have. You knew a defense would be required.

Gosh. You just don't get it. This is not the place we come to fight, and certainly not each other over what white folk say about us. This is our refuge, a place where we can build together, not fight imaginary battles based on what other people think of us. It is so time out for even caring what they think of us! It is time for us to focus on how we think of each other and how to heal the damage caused by conditioning / studies that have left us thinking the worst of ourselves.

You are obviously sure, confident and secure in who you are and what you've accomplished, and only sticks and stones can break your bones, but all of us are not there yet. Do you realize we have Sisters and Brothers hurting mentally, physically, spiritually, psychologically? Do you know this, do you care? This community is here to provide an escape from the continuous assaults on our being. A place where we can find peace and encouragement from our own folk ... and here you are throwing rocks at us, waiting to see who says, "ouch."

White folk and all their racist studies, or Black folk who present them as truth can hardly be considered "New Threats." It's business as usual.

Destee

As an African women I must say that I am proud of me. I love who I am and who most of us are. We are beautiful. we are smart. We are feminine. We are a force that all would like to understand. our strength has been passed down from generation to generation. If a black man does'nt find our being pleasant or suitable, I say the issues lies within himself. It is his image that he's so willing to erase. I know for a fact that there are many white men, asian men that dream of encounters will black women but unlike some black men they remain true to their own. They support each other. There is no need for me to defend who I am or why black men choose to date or marry outside of their race. I'm beautiful and no one will ever convince me that I am anything less or that I have a problem being the beautiful black me! It's not an issue to debate when you know your own selfworth but it hurts to hear that our men would put others on such a pedestal without any regards to the women who helped make and mode them into the black men that they are.

I have tend to agree with much of what Mahogany says here. However a few other people have made some valid points as well. Much of what Amun-Ra says in the thread is very well known and perhaps he is guilty of re-hashing information already known. However he does postulate a few points that we may not be taken into consideration. And I do agree that we need to challenge the images and perceptions that we help re-inforce or are complicit in allowing to continue by staying silent. Perception in many cases is reality. Working around Yte people shows me what they think of us and how they percieve us, based on stereo-types and their very limited interaction with us, outside the work place. I believe the most constructive thing we can do is not support any images, forms of communication, products and groups that denegrate and malign the image of black women, or men for that matter. Naturally this would include SOME hair care products, skin whitners, CD's and videos, columnist, et al.

I do not care for stereotypes and I don't care much for the people who believe them--any of them. We can be secure in ourselves and our own self worth and I certainly salute all who have found that within themselves because that much is needed just to face the world, but I worry that we don't call down the offenders in our community who help perpetuate those stereotypes. (too many videos and music portraying black women as--hoes, etc.) That's a weak one, but those videos and music are also embraced by white as well as blacks and unfortunately, that is how some view out women when it is a far cry from the truth. I am aware of groups of black women fighting these images, but it seems that not much can be done in the face of unlimited dollars.

Ra

:cool: