What in the hell is going on with wedding these days? I have watched as wedding costs for the average Joe and Jane has reached nearly $50,000. Say what! Fiddy thousand!

Come on folks, the ink on the wedding certificate won't even be dry before the divorce papers are in the mail. These fairytale weddings show a society that is stuck in fantasyland when it comes to romance and marriage. Blacks marriages end in divorce nearly three times as often as white marriages, which is horrendous because white marriage fail 2 to 1. In other words for every two marriages, one will fail and the rate for black folk is even higher.

Have we lost our ****ing minds? $50,000 for a ****ing wedding that turns into a funeral of broken dreams and hard reality? I don’t think so. Right now, black women who have been divorced are almost guaranteed to never marry again and as she ages the chances go from slim to none. Each ten years a black woman ages, reduced the chances that she will never marry. In fact, black women are the least married female group in the United States.

It's not right, but it is fact. Black men can do as they please. They are in demand and have multiple choices. These are not my words, they are documented facts. In the real world romantically speaking, black men are seen as more masculine and manly and are considered a prime catch especially if they are educated. On the other hand, black women are seen as less than feminine and overbearing.

Again these are not my words, these come from statistics. That's' why I question these $50,000 weddings. They are a waste of money and they are certainly a waste of human feelings. Perhaps divorces should cost more. If you’ve got $50,000 for a wedding buy a house instead. Buy some stocks and bonds. Buy something that you can split later. Of course, I am trying my best to get a rise here, don't back off.

Ra


:confused:

You won't get an argument out of me because I agree that $50K for a wedding is a lot of money. But that's merely based on the size of my wallet. However, IF a couple can afford to spend that amount AND the event serves as a genuine symbol of their love and commitment and not a facade to impress others, then why not?

Besides, what you may think of as a "fairytale" wedding, might not be that at all. Elaborate weddings are not a new phenomenon in any culture. After all, they are supposed to be symbolic of a blessed union between two people and their families, is it not? A new beginning. Planting a seed from which is family tree is expected to grow. The celebration of two people becoming as one or a unit.

While it may be true that Black men can do as they please, what exactly does that mean? Amun-ra, you wrote that Black men are perceived to be "prime catch" and you imply that Black women aren't viewed the same way. Factual or not, that statement is filled with stereotyping based on racial biases and sexual misnomers. Does the imply that Black men don't view Black women as being feminine? As a Black man yourself Amun-Ra, do you believe this to be true? Help me to understand by defining what "feminine" or "feminity" and by what standard are being used to define these terms? Only your opinions are sought here.

Black women--overbearing? *lol* I'm sure some people have this opinion, HOWEVER, again, what do you or the data mean by this? Are there specific qualities that Black women display that leads toward this view?

Finally, based on your statistics about African American divorces, I can see why you would think spending $50K on a wedding would be a waste of money. However, if we all took this dim view and let ourselves be guided only by a social pathology, never to dream of a better more meaningful experience--then where would that way of thinking lead us?

I pulled the info from several sources--I will put it in the next post--it was interesting because we always see black men catching the tail end, but these surveys indicated that romatically, the black man ranks high on the list of desireables while black women hit the other end because of the items I mentioned--sure thay are stereotypes--Saphires and the overbearing load-mouthesd woman--but they aren't my stereotypes--I'll put it in the next post and the sources so yu can see it yourself--I agree with the affordability portion--although as a man I must say that a big wedding was the last thing on my mind--for me it was a moment that I didn't want to share with anyone other than my immediate family and best friend--but that's me--I don't like ceremony in romance--but I am the Grynch who stole marriage--like Rodney King--"can't we just get it on,"--okay that's not quite what he said, but you can see that weddings are about as pleasureable to me as a funeral except in the funeral the corpse stays dead while in the wedding it rots and rots and rots until it stinks up everyone around it--then it dies an ignominious death--I am the marriage facist--been married 20 years and renewed my vows, quietly, in Jamaica at Dunn's Falls. Still, I would have rather be snorkleling.

Ra

:heart:

Good grief!! Sounds like you need an attitude adjustment! :D BUT, if that works for you and your mate, that's wonderful.

However, Amun-Ra. . . in spite of the high statistical rate of divorces among Blacks, I hardly think that marriage deserves to be compared to funerals and rotting flesh!! *lol* We won't ask how much you spent on your wedding. *lol*

I'm looking forward to your sources of data. I'm very curious about where the data comes from and who's perceptions they are to describe Black men and Black women.

:)

Forty-eight percent of all black women of marriageable age are either divorced or have never been married (compared with 31 percent of white women). Among African Americans aged 20–39, there are about 10 percent more women than men. An additional 10 percent of males are in prison, and another 10 percent are otherwise restricted by the legal system. Eighty percent of African American graduate students are women. For individuals between the ages of 25 and 55 there are 86.5 black men for every 100 black women. (In this same age group there are 100.5 white men for every 100 white women.) Other causes for this black male shortage include tragically high homicide rates (51.4 deaths per 100,000 black men), suicide rates (9.9 deaths per 100,000 black men, compared with 2.0 per 100,000 for black women), and rates of death from disease and accidents.

In addition, black men are far more likely to marry nonblacks than are black women. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the incidence of black-white married couples quadrupled between 1960 and 1990. However, writers have suggested that while black men often prefer fairer-skinned women, black women tend not to prefer fairer-skinned men. Also, African Americans are more in demand as husbands than as wives, some research suggests, partly because black men are seen as slightly more masculine than white men and black women are seen as slightly less feminine than white women. The media reinforces this image of black men through its stereotypes of African American males as rugged athletes. It has also been suggested that the American government promotes single motherhood for African American women by providing welfare aid and, along with it, a certain degree of economic freedom for these women. This governmental safety net may also aid men in rationalizing their refusal to marry.

i Read, Reason, Write, Sixth Edition, Dorothy U. Seyler, http://www.dushkin.com/seyler/se04/race5.mhtml, Is Finding a Husband a Major Concern for African American Women?

Ra

:heart:

Thank you Amun-Ra, very good information. Now, as I read these statistics, seems to me much of the "inbalances" can be changed as a result of a change in thinking and behavior. For example.

"black men are far more likely to marry nonblacks than are black women." Black men could take the view that this behavior is a problem in the Black family and either not do this or do it far less frequently.

"It has also been suggested that the American government promotes single motherhood for African American women by providing welfare aid and, along with it, a certain degree of economic freedom for these women. This governmental safety net may also aid men in rationalizing their refusal to marry." Black women, when possible, should use this type of assistance as a last resort; take a different view on having babies outside of wedlock and be more supportive of each other to avoid being seen as an economic drain on society.

"Eighty percent of African American graduate students are women." More Black men could enter graduate school to obtain terminal degrees. However, it would also help if the job market could absorb more educated Black men and sometimes it doesn't turn out that way. It's often said that Black women find it easier to get a job than a Black man because Black men are seen as a threat to White men. Do you think there is some truth to this?

Do Black men prefer light-skin toned women? Do Black women prefer dark-skin toned men? Well, I have to admit that I do and I'm not sure why that is! Hmmmm...

50k? ... that's a lot of money.

Ra, a comment you made raised a question. You mentioned:

Ra quote:
Blacks marriages end in divorce nearly three times as often as white marriages, which is horrendous because white marriage fail 2 to 1. In other words for every two marriages, one will fail and the rate for black folk is even higher.

Is there a study or what is your opinion on the divorce rate of interracial marriages? Do the figures falls closer to the black statistics or the white statistics or somewhere in the middle?

Interesting there are numerous studies on the subject of interracial divorce stability--I have several papers I've written on the subject and I will post them for you.

It is a hard one to shake because there are many factors influencing all of this. I plan to write on them because there are a couple of things I would like to take issue with and one in particular is that men are intimidated by independent women.

Ra

:cool:

What? You don't have an opinion? LOL!

I will await your papers on the subject of interracial divorce to hear what you have to say...thanks for indulging me.

It will also be interesting to hear what you have to say on that issue "men intimidated by independent women", for I too have some issues with that as well.

indeed 50k is a lot
yes it's true that so many end so soon as fast as they get hooked they lose i study it to some point and found that
Black marriages crack faster then whites but both to crash
more then the records show
what happen to a simple wedding and fun as love is bonded
it's the money stuff i guess that rip bonds apart like paper
ya on point ............it's true how marriages fails
out of 100 about 70 end in devoice a total combine of all creeds

My information on mixed martiages fail at a lower reate than others--the reasons behind it are complex--part of it has to do with showing the public that it will work and that most couples entering these unions are doing so with their eyes wide open and are expecting some adversity and are more prepared for it--Ra

:confused:

not to go into debt. so that's why me and hubby paid for the thing ourselves. My momma bought my cake (hook up from her baker friend) I did the food you know wings, meatballs, veggies, patties, rice, bread small stuff like that, had sparkling cider, we bought our rings at one time and put them sukaz on lay away, got married at my church so we didn't have to break the pastor off, got the hook up on the weddin dress, bought it in the country for like 150, got the hook up on the brides maids dresses, hooked up on the flowers cause the flower man went to the chrurch, daddy did the pictures, best friend did the video and we had a hell of a time.....50 g's my ***

could you expand on the reasoning behind the mixed-marriages divorce rates being somewhat lower than others. I follow you on the couple going into it with open eyes, but I thought most people enter marriage with their eyes somewhat open. Anyway, whenever you feel like talking bout it more indepth...

UbZoRbShUn
You didn't have to pay for the Pastor/Church? Most churches now (at least the ones in Ga) wants to charge MEMBERS big dollars for wedding ceremonies...and I'm not talking chump-change either :)

not one red cent and I live rhet here in Atlanta, if you paying big grip then you must not be a member of that church... see people all caught up in the bling bling. hell when i got married we didn't know what bling bling was ('92)... you know gold was still in ha ha ha

that explains it! ... in the past 2-3 years, maybe as far back as 5, I've known a few couples getting married and are members of the church and they had to pay BIG dollar$ to their church for the wedding ceremonies to be held there.

I was just curious :)

see marriage is about the bond , the love in heart
the vows ...........today everybody on the money stuff
trying to have the best wedding in town but
what about the true love of vows posed unto one another
not that 700.00 dress for one hour and the cake for 200.00
to slice up and the big fancy limo ....what !!! give me my own car
weddings should be kept simple and sweet as once was
not this madness being posed today .......mannnnnnnnnnn!!
next it will cost ya arm , leg, house,car , and ya heart..........

If you aren't wealthy, a $50,000 wedding seems extravagant for such a shaky proposition. I've been to them and they are nice. I've been to one that cost even more and they are nicer, but the bottom line is the marriage and the cheap ones and the extravagant ones fail at the same rate. It would seem a good time to cut your losses. Now, for my sexist comment. Women have been conditioned to have a big fairy tale wedding. It starts from the moment they are born and continues until they go to the grave. American movies and advertising (the diamond industry, flower industry, gown industry, vacation industry, etc.) all have a stake in making this part of a woman's dream. It is the ultimate romantic fairy tale. Diamonds aren't forever for men. Tuxedos are rentable and look the same--unless we go ghetto fabalus (green, pink or yellow). Everything centers on the woman. It is a woman's thing although the marriage is certainly important to both, but it is marketed almost solely to women.

Ra

:heart:

I meant they have their eyes open to how difficult it will be as a mixed couple. You are right, all couples go into their marriages with their eyes open, but a mixed couple must also be aware of more things than will affect their marriage that have nothing to do with their romance or relationship, or maybe that should be that has everything to do with their romance and relationship.

Ra

;)

is it because of the mix race and how other family member or friends even people see them as or lable them to be self destruct
at any cost the high price and the vow of love is now a twisted myth!

to me vows are a very beautiful
and opening of a heart and soul
combining as one…feelin complete
what happen to love each other
not try to out do your
best friends wedding
..but now and
days the cost is more
important..i had a friend get
married this pass
summer she paid 1500.00 for her grown
she only can
wear once…and the party after
wards was very nice..and all the money they spent
instead of rentin a house
they could of purchased a house....but
now they yellin divorce….after 6 months....
me i dont see no sense in all that...

the price to pay !!!
stakes too high
it's now days all about the beauty of it
and what cost most to make it a day to
remember but when it clash down a wast
of money just to say i do and then i don't !

Rich is right--black marriages last even less time--this is not a good bet in anybody's book, but that doesn't stop us from the show--Ra

indeed 50k is a lot
yes it's true that so many end so soon as fast as they get hooked they lose i study it to some point and found that
Black marriages crack faster then whites but both to crash
more then the records show
what happen to a simple wedding and fun as love is bonded
it's the money stuff i guess that rip bonds apart like paper
ya on point ............it's true how marriages fails
out of 100 about 70 end in devoice a total combine of all creeds

the thought is deep and so many broken homes
marrage lasting only months the value is smaller then the price

I am doing about 75K myself, I have went up from my initial cost of 50K. I want to make the union the best memory of our lives, I will always make money, and my happiness is not going to be stifled by it.

IF you can afford it great! If not, you need to marry within your budget. If I do not have the funding that I need for my 50K to 75K wedding, a playa will just save until lol! I got me a lil budget for it right now, so I hope it can continue to grow.

it's all good brutha but even if i did have it , I will not pay that much money
to get married to me it's a pure waste that money can go on a house for future living
or to help finance the new family and 99.8% of the time who get all this money
the whites !
making a grand killing from many pockets .

Good luck brutha Manasiac keep saving on the budget tip .

First of all, If I am paying 50k to 75k for a wedding, I will already have purchased a house and created money for the future kids and myself and da wife. Usually you will not spend that kind of money on a wedding and be broke thereafter. Also you can purchase wedding items from Blacks, there are brothers and sisters in the wedding buisness. :-)

that's true but only a hand full and there are many that don't think
ahead as you are and they just jump the broom for that moment of sweet
beauty it's to much for a few hours today living just too high for that kind
of spending , but i feel you big time

Did you know there was like 80% of the couples who felt they would be set
and had all the twist and turns worked out and once married they found
themselves in debt within the first year which have started family problems
i've witness it more then i like to see .

I would not spend a lot on a wedding. It indeed is not worth it. I think it's more for show than anything. It's not going to make your wedding anymore memorable than it would be if you spent $10,000. If it does make it more memorable, then maybe there's something wrong with the relationship. A wedding above all should be about the two people getting married, not the show that goes along with it. All these big time celebrities spend millions on their weddings and turn around and divorce a year or two later. There are way too many things you can do with that money...and if anything...save it. You can never have too much money in the bank. To throw it away just because you can (at the moment) is foolish. I understand that people want someting to remember, and that's all good and that's their business, but after it's all said and done, you'll might miss that $50-$100k more than you remember where it went. Nothing is guaranteed. Money comes and goes no matter how much potential and money making savvy you may have. Ever heard the saying :happens:

that is so true kente.....big spending on a wedding is not worth the
later problem many have and will face in life , simply too much i agree
it should be about the two in question not the top choice fancy wedding
and glamor

And to think for a few hours whewwwwww!!!

the price to pay !!!
stakes too high
it's now days all about the beauty of it
and what cost most to make it a day to
remember but when it clash down a wast
of money just to say i do and then i don't !

Some women spend elaborately because they want to show off they have a man.

If a couple wants to spend a lot of money put it in a house not in a ceremony that's going to last one day!

that is so true , why show off !
when later in life this same money will be needed
to uphold the house or family we seem to look at
the glamor of getting married and not the long term of
life together and the struggle one may face down the
line .......