I'm ignorant about Pan-Africanism and want to learn about it. I've been seeing the term used a lot here in various threads and my lack of understanding prevents me from commenting on it. So I thought I'd come here hoping to find out more about it. But I don't see anywhere that defines it and explains what it means, how the concept got started, basic principles, philosophy, etc.

I could seek and probably will, information on the web but I thought I'd start my search here.

Thanks!:)

Hey NN, now you know if you wanted an explanation of PanAfricanism, all you had to do was ask me. Here it goes:

In all honesty there is not a set definition of Pan Africanism, you can't find a definition in Webster's Dictionary. Pan Africanism is an idea. Pan Africanism grew out of 19th century efforts to end slavery and the slave trade. At this time blacks worldwide were being oppressed. Slavery existed in America, South America, and the Carribean. Also the colonization of Africa (born out of the Berlin Conference of 1884 & 85) had begun. As a result of these events black people world wide began to realize that they faced common problems (slavery, colonization, and racism), and that it would be to their benefit to work together in an effort to solve these problems. Out of this realization came the Pan African Conferences of 1900 (London), 1919 (Paris), 1921 (London, Brussels, Paris), 1923 (London), 1927 (New York), and the last official one was in 1949. Some of the most influential blacks of the time participated in these meetings: Slyvester Williams, W.E.B. Du Bois, Marcus Garvey, Kwame Nkrumah, etc. The belief that people of African descent throughout the Diaspora (meaning spread throughout the world) share a common history, culture, and experience and should stick together. This belief is the principle idea behind Panafricanism. Bringing black people throughout the world together because of our common culture. Panafricanism can be expressed through history, literature, music, art, film, clothing, and food. I hope this helps

Hey PA...*lol*...well, like I said, it really wasn't until I saw so many references being made to it in some posted messages throughout the different forums here that I realized if I wanted to respond intelligently, I'd better learn more about it.

Yes your explanation makes a lot of sense, so much so that now I'm really curious as to what has happened since the 1949 conference. With such an admirable ideology why hasn't this concept, not only been sustained, but spread throughout the African American community and embraced more widely? Is there more to it than you had time to share that has caused people to question Pan-Africanism? You've listed some of the pros, now, knowing how objective you can be PA, what are some of the cons?

I don't have much time so I'll be short with this response.

The continued progress of the PanAfrican Conferences were slowed by the beginning of the modern Civil Rights Movement in America (1950), and the renewed movement for Indepence in Africa (most of the countries in Africa would achieve their independence in the late 1950s & 60s). In other words the major participants of the PanAfrican conferences became consumed with changing the social structure in their own countries and ceased to work together worldwide.

So to answer your question NN, I guess a shortcoming would be that with PanAfricanism it can be difficult to decide whether to concentrate more heavily on solving the problems around you or the problems effecting blacks worldwide. Also a new Pan African group was formed in the 1990s: the New Pan-African Movement (PANAF). They hold periodic meetings by African heads of state and development officials to attempt to fix African problems. They officially meet in 1991 (Ivory Coast), and 1993 (Gabon). They are headed by the Rev. Leon Sullivan, and endorse free trade, domocratization, and an international solution to the politicial problems of blacks. However they are not that high profile (I haven't heard anything from them in quite awhile).

see i didn't know all dis here so i learn something today
Thanks

NNqueen,

To hip you to some of the more sublime things about Pan-Africanism as I know them and teach them.

Pan-Africanism can also be socialist or capitalist or based on communalism.

Pan-Africanist can be followers of Garvey, who believed in the idea of an African Empire, more capitalist.

Pan-Africanist can be more like Dubois and Nkrumah who believed in scientific socialism.

Pan-Africanism can also incorporate the many veins of Afrocentrism, or the Negritude movement [what Afrocentrism was called in Africa back in the 60's].

Pan-Africanism incorporates all these ideologies and more.

The main thrust of Pan-Africanism, is that you are thinking in terms of the African Diaspora [ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE WORLD] and the mother Continent[ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE WITH IN AFRICA].

Pan- just means ALL.

All-Africans or All of Africa and her children, no matter where they are in the world.

For me when I say I am Pan-African these are the things that I believe that I mean.

1. I believe that all Black Children deserve a Black Education.
2. I believe that Black Americans should plan to return to Africa.
3. I believe in economic segregation for Africa.
4. I believe in family ownership of land not private and not public.
5. I believe that we should concern ourselves with basics.
6. I believe that Black People need to be humble and unify.
7. I believe that God gave Africa to Black People.

Of course I am also a fan of the Bible. So I believe Jesus when he said "love your enemies", he did not mean PRETEND you do NOT have any enemies.

If you do not have enemies, how can you love them?

My belief of the purpose of Black Americans in America is best shown by one of my favorite Black Americans Christians. He was killed by White People.

Will the Lord suffer this people to go on much longer, taking his holy name in vain? Will he not stop them, preachers and all? O Americans! Americans!! I call God--I call angels--I call men to witness that your destruction is at hand, and will be speedily consummated unless you repent." The words of David Walker, the Bostonian son of a free mother and slave father, were as much a threat as they were a jeremiad. His 76-page pamphlet, Walker’s Appeal ... to the Colored Citizens of the World (1829), marked the beginnings of a new abolitionism--and the beginnings of a rift between white and black antislavery movements. Nervous reactions "They want us for their slaves, and think nothing of murdering us," Walker wrote of southern slaveholders. "Therefore, if there is an attempt made by us, kill or be killed . . . and believe this, that it is no more harm for you to kill a man who is trying to kill you than it is for you to take a drink of water when thirsty; in fact the man who will stand still and let another man murder him is worse than an infidel." Walker had never been a slave, but having been born in Wilmington, North Carolina, he knew its horrors. He had once seen a son forced to whip his mother to death. As a devout Baptist with a deep knowledge of the Bible, he believed the Old Testament God who violently freed the Israelites would free "the most degraded, wretched, and abject set of beings that ever lived." The Boston clothier was also fluent in the rhetoric of the American Revolution, quoting Thomas Jefferson at length. For Walker, the Declaration of Independence, which affirmed the right of revolution, justified blacks’ rising against their oppressors. Thus they could act confidently: "Never make an attempt to gain our freedom or natural right, from under our cruel oppressors and murderers, until you see your way clear--when that hour arrives and you move, be not afraid or dismayed; for be you assured that Jesus Christ the king of heaven and of earth who is the God of justice and of armies, will surely go before you. And those enemies who have for hundreds of years stolen our rights and kept us ignorant of him and his divine worship, he will remove." Southern whites were horrified by "the diabolical Boston Pamphlet." They passed laws forbidding blacks to read, banned the distribution of all antislavery literature, and offered rewards of up to $10,000 for Walker’s arrest.

For me Pan-Africanism is two fold. What we are going to do to secure that Africa is never attacked again in the future. And what we are going to do, to improve our humble home and our people in Africa.

Crunchy, what an amazing dissertation. Thank you for the lesson. I hope you will continue to share your knowledge and perspective with us. I have a question.

Panafrica wrote: "Also a new Pan African group was formed in the 1990s: the New Pan-African Movement (PANAF). They hold periodic meetings by African heads of state and development officials to attempt to fix African problems. They officially meet in 1991 (Ivory Coast), and 1993 (Gabon). They are headed by the Rev. Leon Sullivan, and endorse free trade, domocratization, and an international solution to the politicial problems of blacks. However they are not that high profile (I haven't heard anything from them in quite awhile)."

Do you know anymore about this that you can share?

Also, you wrote about several different ideologies Pan-Africanism can be based on. So are you saying that there are different Pan-African groups that are based on all the various ideologies? There's no single Pan-Africanists group under a single ideology, mission or purpose?

Great reply CrunchyStuff, and nice to meet you. To answer NN again:

There are different ideologies (or different approaches) to PanAfricansim. If for no other reason this is a reflection of the different cultures & economic structures of the various countries in the world where people of African Descent live. Each country, each ethnic group, each nationality (African, African American, African Carribean, African European, etc.), has a different perspective to bring. Many Pan Africanist are socialist, and the debate whether socialism or capitialism is most beneficial to the improvement of black people worldwide is one of the hottest debates among Pan Africanist. These are the types of issues that are better discussed at a Pan African Conference like those of the early 1900s, which is why I would personally like for them to continue.

Monster,

The idea hasn't been allowed to propogate because largely we (Africans and the descendants of Africans world-wide) have been kept splintered and inundated with the "us" and "them" ideology. The best war stragedy has and always will be divide and conquer. As long as we are kept divided-we can and will continue to be conquered.
Also, with the post Civil Rights covertness (is that a word?) of rasicm and discrimination less and less of us see THE WHITE MAN as a common enemy. As more and more of us "move up the ladder" and "vacate the inner cities" and "master higher learning" we think about a time when it was illegal for Blacks in this country to learn how to read and mistakenly think we are farrrrrrrr removed from those days. When in actuality we own less (homes, businesses, land) but are spening more and that misused wealth blankets us in a false sense of entitlement and achievement. Don't get me wrong---we have come a long way BUT we still have a long way to go.

The Reverend Leon Sullivan is dead. The UN has worked with the ideas of the Reverend Leon Sullivan. I just got that information off the web about him.

I did not know anything about him before PanAfrica mentioned him. Let me explain why.

I am not interested in a Pan-African agency that puts pressure on GM and Ford and Citibank and Kmart to do the right thing. I think that is virtual lunacy. So I have never investigated this group.

That group is a perfect example of Capitalistic Pan-Africanism.

That said. In an effort of unity. I do not think this group harms Africa or Africans because they are more or less working from within the framework that we have been handed. As far as they are concerned the West, meaning America and Europe run the world and control the currency and money and business in Africa. Thus they pressure these groups to treat Africans better.

While all of that is true, and one has to appreciate what they are doing and give them respect for it. What they want is only a step in the right direction. Nobody should attempt to stop them but there must be among us those who dare to dream on an independent Africa. An Africa that sets the price and value of it's own currency. An Africa where GM and FORD and SHELL and CitiBank and Kmart, are community partners, not antagonistic foreign vultures, who take goods out and cash out and put nothing back, as they are now, and as they would continue to be under Rev. Sullivan's vision. Rev. Sullivan would only add a few more goodworks, In otherwords GM might help build some roads.

Of course this is frustrating to me, because I have seen what these companies do when they say they are helping the African communitys that they extract raw materials from. One company in Nigeria claimed that it had really helped the community by putting in water and roads. Unfortunately most do not understand that those were roads to and from the company so that they could extract the goods and that the water is used as a weapon against the workers, if they strike or try to get a union, the water is turned off and the community now dependent on the water is made to suffer, unless they give into the company.

So community works by these big multi-nationals is a "bandaid" on the big bloody wound but still it is something more than nothing, which Africa was previously getting. Mr. Sullivan's heart is in the right place, he was just naive or maybe he is not naive and knows the deal but decided that was all he could get.

There are many Pan-African socialist movements and by far at the grassroots level, Pan-African socialism is the most popular. You would need to look up the writings of Nkrumah, one of the best Black minds that God ever graced the Black race with. Truly one needs to read this man just to be enlightened.

However that said, Nkrumah is dead and most of the Pan-African socialist movements have grown past his thinking, while building on the sure and strong foundation that he laid.

There is a singularity of Pan-Africanism in that it is pro-Black People the world over with an overriding concern for Africa.

That "Pro-Black People" is the central and most functional ideology of Pan-Africanism and it is most important. Do keep in mind we live in a world where some Black People are not Pan-African and they write books and articles about "how blacks are racist", "thank God we were slaves, because I would hate to have been born in Africa", and "Africa is poor because it is not Christian".

When you have Blacks that hateful of their Black Roots, and Africa. Then of course the central ideology of Pan-Africanism as stated above is much more important than it might seem at first.

So yes there is a single Pan-African ideology, mission and purpose.

That said, within the bounds of Pan-Africanism, there are many different views of how we shall go about changing Africa for the better. I believe in Unity and would allow for all of them, as stepping stones if nothing else. That is why I extend respect for the Rev. Sullivans and for the Scientific Socialists. However I am of the Communalism strain of Pan-Africanism. I do not believe that Socialism nor Capitalism differ that much in that they both "do business" with the Western Powers and as such, both will be marginalized in the world whether the world is capitalist or socialist. [right now it is capitalist].

Both of those Pan-African ideology's have at their center a cental materialistic basis. As a Christian, I could careless if we sell 1 item or 10,000 items. I see a continent where we all work for everybody else. Meaning we concentrate on digging wells, and laying down road, and building houses or huts and educating our people.

I am not interested in making sure that Africans are on the internet, or have the latest gadgets from the west. I do not believe that medicines from the west have ever been that helpful to Africans. So I would not sweat the loss of those either. I do not believe that western style education and information systems have made enough of an impact in Africa to justify a continued slave/master relationship with the west.

Some people fear disconnecting from the west because they fear losing technology, medicine and education from the west, they believe that Africa needs these things. So they want to continue to do business with the west whether they are socialist of capitalist.

I trust in God and believe the Bible, when it says that I have given to each race [Nation] what it needs.

I believe in a Africa that can sustain itself but first must get the basics settled. Food, Water, Housing.

All of this is within Africa. Africa does not need anybody to obtain these things. Development under a capitalist or a socialist system proceeds in an uneven and thus far to date not very useful way because those in control of Africa do not seem to understand the very simple proverb: You must crawl before you can walk.

Sorry this was so long. Smile.

PanAfrica,

Nice to meet you also. I appreciated your factual historical post about the beginings of Pan-Africanism. Thank you.

Monetg,

It is hard on Black People to know what their position should be, with so much confusion coming at them. Thank God for African Wisdom and The Bible.

Proverbs 29:7 The righteous taketh knowledge of the cause of the poor; The wicked hath not understanding to know it.

Proverbs 31:8 "Speak up for people who cannot speak for themselves. Protect the rights of all who are helpless.

Proverbs 16:19 It is better to be oppressed with the poor, than to get riches with the oppresser.

African Proverbs

The axe forgets, the tree remembers.

Just because one is well dressed, it does not make them rich.

The King's dog, is still just a dog.

Crunchy....do you talk like you write 'cause I bet you can go! :)

This is a whole lot to absorb and it'll take me some time but I'm I'll come back with many more questions. I didn't realize the concept of Pan-Africanism was so deep.

Thank you!

Oh, is there a booklist that those of you who are well read in this area can start on this topic? Maybe we can start having discussions on some of the different authors and their ideologies.

Queen,

But of course. And I made that short! Believe it or not. Smile.

For an economic background on Africa [and this should be widely available at a university campus for instance] you can read:

How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. By Walter Rodney.

If possible I would recommend taking African American History courses and African History courses. Most University offer these courses. This is only 4 courses. 2 for African Americans and 2 for Continental Africans.

For a good historical text and some might scream about this choice but it is simply one of the best anthology's around. I recommend Loius Gates African American Anthology collection. It cost about 50 bucks at a University Bookstore. It is possible to get it from the library. It contains some of the greatest African American writers, playwrights, activist [many of whom were writers] and poets.

There are of course many writings that you can get on the web. These teach you about Black People historically and they are important for understanding that "Pro-Black People" ideology.

One of the best sites on the web is the Global African website. It teaches you about who and where African people are in the world. Make sure to read about the Black Panther party in Australia.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/runoko.html

That should be more than enough to keep ya reading for a minute.

Revolutionary Greetings

I have been observing the conversation and I must say that I am impressed. I am a member of the All-African People's Revolutionary Party (A-APRP) and we classify our party as a "Pan-Africanist" party. Pan-African based off of the definition determined at the 5th Pan-African Congress convened in London, 1945. Pan-Africanism was defined as "The total liberation and unification of Africa under scientific socialism" and Pan-Africanism being our objective, we are a "Pan-Africanist" party. We are also Socialists. We recognize that of all continents, Africa held onto "Communalism" the longest (and still does). We want to take the values of Communalism that existed prior to industrialization and apply them to modern society. We do not have a "Marxists-Leninist" ideology, we have an "Nkrumahist-Tureist" ideology which means we are guided by the revolutionary ideas, principles and practices of Kwame Nkrumah and Seku Ture. We as African people think it is best to adhere to African ideology. Class distinctions are imparted on every aspect of every persons life, therefore you will find "Bourgieousie" Pan-Africanism and "Revolutionary" Pan-Africanism. I love the example of Bourgieousie Pan-Africanism given earlier. Bourgieoussie Pan-Africanism is what the World Bank and IMF would like to see. But Revolutionary Pan-Africanism is what Africa is struggling for and this does not work in the interest of these Capitalist financial institutions. In fact, it works in the opposite of their interests. But this is the struggle we face...and once our mother Africa begins to achieve mass organization, no force on earth or in the heavens will stop her (in fact, all the forces of the heavens will be behind her *smile*). I hope this was helpful in furthering the understanding of Pan-Africanism.

ready for the REVOLUTION!!!
RA

Rebel Africa,

I am very excited by some of the things that AAPRP is teaching and bringing to the people of America. It is refreshing to have my cake [socialism] and eat it too [communalism]. I have been to at least one AAPRP website and I enjoyed it very much.

Ever Forward, Never Backwards!

As Crunchy already stated "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" is a good book to read about Africa's economic development.

As far as Pan African history is concerned another good book is:

"Africans in the Americas: A History of the Black Diaspora" by Michael Conniff & Thomas Davis. "Pan Africanism in the African Diaspora: An Analysis of Modern Afrocentric Political Movements" by Ronald Walters is another book I'd recommend.

Two more books that you might look at are:

"Africans & their History" by Joseph Harris which is a decent overview of African History, and "Government and Politics in Africa" which also discusses African economy.

Great posts all around.

Thanks for the reading list. You've listed a library! While I'm doing my homework, I'd like to see replies to PANTHA's question:

"How do you express Pan-Africanism in your everyday life?"

Personally, I express Pan-Africanism in my everyday life by consciously working towards the fullfillment of Pan-Africanism through the labor that I put into the building of our party (The A-APRP). I am ideologically guided by Kwame Nkrumah and Seku Ture and I express it in my culture. I eat African foods, I wear African clothes (from time to time), I seek friendship with Africans at home (in Africa) and abroad (amerikkka and etc.) and I do my best to THINK like an African (even though my thinking has been severly impaired by amerikkka). The closest thing to "spirituality" in my life is this all emcompasing feeling that I am being watched by people. Not that spaced out "Illuminati" type stuff. But a feeling that people are standing over my shoulders watching me. I feel they are my ancestors. I feel like they are speaking to me. As if people can't hear them, but they know I can hear them so they are giving me a message. They want redemption. I cannot escape this feeling and so I live my life to fullfill this mission to redeem them. To say the things they never had the chance to say. That if they said it the master would torture their babies. To act in ways they couldn't act. To be able to defend my women, (family and friends) in ways that they couldn't. I know that this kinda seems "off subject" but it's not. I feel these feelings EVERYDAY, and this is what keeps Pan-Africanism in my mind everyday. PLEASE don't have me committed to a mental institution yall. I'm really a nice guy when you get to know me *smile.*

Queen,

I read, write, talk and breathe Jesus and the Bible everyday. It is the best contribution that anyone can make towards Pan-Africanism in my opinion.

For me it is about the poor people who suffer in Africa and the world.

The situtation in Africa:

Pro 13:23 Even when the land of the poor produces good crops, they get cheated out of what they grow.

Why the leadership in Africa must change:

Ecc 5:8 Don't be surprised if the poor of your country are abused, and injustice takes the place of justice. After all, the lower officials must do what the higher ones order them to do.

What steps can we in America take to help the poor people in Africa [and elsewhere]?

1. Learn about the situtation.

(Proverbs 29:7) The righteous taketh knowledge of the cause of the poor; The wicked hath not understanding to know it.

2. Reach one, Teach one.

Pro 31:8 "Speak up for people who cannot speak for themselves. Protect the rights of all who are helpless.

What does God think about America and the other countries who participate in oppressing Africa [et al]?

Jer 5:27 Their houses are stuffed with ill-gotten gain, like a hunter's bag full of birds. Pretentious and powerful and rich,
Jer 5:28 hugely obese, oily with rolls of fat. Worse, they have no conscience. Right and wrong mean nothing to them. They stand for nothing, stand up for no one, throw orphans to the wolves, exploit the poor.
Jer 5:29 Do you think I'll stand by and do nothing about this?" GOD's Decree. "Don't you think I'll take serious measures against a people like this?
Jer 5:30 "Unspeakable! Sickening! What's happened in this country? [MSG Bible]

Mic 3:4 The time's coming, though, when these same leaders will cry out for help to GOD, but he won't listen. He'll turn his face the other way because of their history of evil.

Why doesn't my preacher speak more about the poor, since Jesus came to preach to the poor?

Mic 3:5 Here is GOD's Message to the prophets, the preachers who lie to my people: "For as long as they're well paid and well fed, the prophets preach, 'Isn't life wonderful! Peace to all!' But if you don't pay up and jump on their bandwagon, their 'God bless you' turns into 'God **** you.' [MSG Bible]

What should be our goals as people trapped in the Belly of the beast [Africans in America]?

1. Get out of America

Rev 18:4 Just then I heard another shout out of Heaven: Get out, my people, as fast as you can, so you don't get mixed up in her sins, so you don't get caught in her doom.


Remember that Jesus gave us the example:

He died for us, so that we could get to home to heaven.

Maybe it is time that we died [spiritually die to desiring the luxury's we have here] for our African brethren so that we can get back home.

Jesus and the Bible are the solution. We must be courageous even though the odds seem against us. As the bible says:

No cowards will be in heaven.

*95 percent of African Americans and Africans World Wide are Christians. Coming to them in any other fashion besides what the Bible and God [Jesus Christ] says is pissing in the wind. Besides the fact that you go to hell if you do not believe in Jesus, that makes an awfully good incentive to preach the Bible and Jesus. Which is why Louis Farrakhan carries around a Bible, he has faced the reality that African Americans are Christians.

RebelAfrika,

The One who speaks to you, will show Himself.

I used to call the things I heard in my Spirit, my african anscestors also until the day that God made himself known to me fully.

As the Bible says:

Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
Isa 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

RebelAfrica NOTICE,

The person God was talking about being his ANNOINTED servant was NOT A JEW or an Israelite. Notice that God had ANNOINTED, NAMED, STRENGTHENED, and gave WISDOM to this NON-JEW.

Your not crazy at all.

Very interesting...and informative.

The first way I express Pan Africanism in my everyday life is through my marriage to an African woman (Equatorial Guinea). The second is through raising our daughter, who is a Pan African child. I eat African food, listen to African music, wear African clothes, read Pan African books (seeking knowledge about blacks throughout the diaspora), and participate in Pan African organizations. Finally I express PanAfricanism by coming to this message board. I am a Pan Africanist through and through.

Pantha,

I do know that Pan-Africanism is not centered around any religion. That is why Africa doesn't have Pan-Africanism and is bumbling and stumbling to get it. In my opinion.

This is why I do not count myself among the "Scientific Socialists", I realize that what I am bringing to the table is fundamentally different from what most socialists are bringing to the table.

Of course Radical African Socialism is very close in ideology, they know what I know. Religion is the only platform on which a successful revolution can be run.

If they do not have God to worship. They will in fact worship the state. That is why they had to burn down temples dedicated to worship of Ho Chi Mein. The reason that Leo Tolstoy [The father of Russian socialism] was a Christian Socialist. The Chinese government is inviting Christian teachers, they have discovered that rather than fight the massive wave of underground Christians in their country [China prints the most bibles in the world], they are going to integrate the verses in the Bible that apply to state ideology.

I got those stat's from a textbook entitled Africa Christianity. And other places.

I have seen bible teachers use those figures to reprimand Americans who dream of growing up one day to bring Christianity to the little heathens in Africa.

In fact Africa has more Christians than America has people.

Crunchy Stuff,

I don't feel like it's one person watching me. I don't feel like it is three people either *smile.* I feel like it is some Africans who are my ancestors who are speaking to me in a language I cant understand anymore (but deep inside, I "UNDERSTAND" them).

Anywayz, I appreciate your opinion though. I hope you don't mind me sharing my opinion in relation to something you said earlier? It's just that I don't think that the fact that Africans are "Stumbling" or "Bumbling" their way to Pan-Africanism is a "matter of fact" due to not being centered on "one particular religion." Anybody who knows anything about Africans knows that we are a very religious people and that we are very tolarent of the many existing religions. In fact, it is the europeans who are intolerant to various religions (which is why they fled "religious" persecution in europe and came to amerikkka) and that Africans who are intolerant to religious differences are "acting out of the ordinary" of African thought (or acting european). Unlike the Marxist, the Pan-Africanist does not view religion as being "the opiate of the masses" because we are aware of the GALVANIZING role religion has played in our struggle for Pan-Africanism (and I say that we are "struggling" for Pan-Africanism, not "stumbling" and "bumbling" to get it). We have religion but we don't have a monolithic concept of religion. But I don't think that this is the problem. I think that the problem is that the white imperialistic power structure puts obsticles in our way to bumble and stumble on. They heighten ANY AND EVERY difference that they can detect to make us bumble. We was the ONLY PEOPLE IN HISTORY to wear medallions of our entire continent on it!!! To me, this is a sign of our unlimited potential for unity that is HIGHLY underated!!! If only we could stop bumbling over the "willie lynch" stuff though. And it's the C.I.A., the World Bank and the IMF that make us stumble. They destablize African unity on various fronts. We are not trippin' over our own feet. Someone is intentionally trippin' us. If only we could stop stumbling over the "co-intel" stuff though! But thats why they call our situation a "struggle" you know? But these are just a few of my thoughts and opinions. I apologize if I run off at the mouth sometimes.

Rebel Africa,

What we each feel is such a powerful personal thing. I do not think that one should intrude too much on what God is doing in individual people's lives. I will let God handle that business. Except for this one poem by John Hendricke Clarke.



I will leave that in this separate post, so that we can continue our discussion about Pan-Africanism unimpeded by that rather personal conversation. Smile.

Rebel Africa,

What you have basically said above, forgive me for charecterizing it as this is that "the white man did it". Which is fine, I understand this and know it to be the truth.

Yet now we have to deal with the fact that the white man is STILL HERE and he will continue to DO IT.

Right?

So how can we stop the whiteman?

I believe that we must have moral conviction and certainty on our side.

Smile.

Thank you for sharing poetry by the distinguished and renowned Dr. John Henrik Clarke.

Unfortunately, it is against our Forum Rules (http://www.destee.com/forums/rules.php) to add copyrighted information without including written permission from the copyright owner (in this case, Dr. John Henrik Clarke).

Please edit your post above, adding his written permission or by deleting the words that belong to him.

Thanks.

Money and just in case you need it.

The Copyright Law is Title 17 of the US CODE and it is section 107 where the Fair Use portion of the Law is.

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.


http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

If I didn't get a good :lol: out of this, I would have ignored it.

Since Destee OWNS Destee.com--just in case you didn't know--click Forum Rules (http://www.destee.com/forums/rules.php) for what Destee says about posting other people's work.

Have a great day.

Not to come down on you sister crunchystuff, but monetary is absolutely right. While there are general rules when it comes to using copyrighted material, and quoting said material. This is a site owned and operated by sister Destee. Destee has her own rules about using copyrighted material which includes obtaining the written permission of the author of the material you are quoting. As well as posting the approval in your message. You obviously were not aware about this, so I'm just letting you know for next time. :)

Money,

Okay. Smile. I am glad you got a kick out of it. I removed it.

By the way Pantha, Everything I have written here is original and none of it came off of the web. There is no copy and pasting from my posts. Except the Bible verses.

The Bible verses have no copyright because copyright expires after 75 to 95 years. The KJV et al is over 400 years old.

Pantha,

Maybe that is my site, maybe not. Should I claim it? Maybe it will have copyright violations. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding it is mine.

:lol:

You know, I just got through reading the forums rules for the first time and I'm glad this forum is moderated because I HATE those unmoderated forums. People go CRAZY up in them ones, you know?

Anywayz. Sis. Crunchy Stuff, I read your original post before it was deleted. You made some very good points (just wanted you to know). Regarding your edited post, I too believe that we must have moral convictions and certainty on our side (to achieve Pan-Africanism). We are of the same opinion regarding this. I'll end with that (for now *smile*).

In terms of political views in America, are there Pan-Africans who are Republicans or Democrats? If not, do you vote in elections?

Republican PanAfricanist? Now that is a truly scary picture.......lol! However I guess it wouldn't be impossible. As was already stated PanAfricanism is a broad philosophy. Having room for Socialist as well as Capitalist ways or thinking. So I would assume that a PanAfricanist can either be republican or democratic.

Pan-Africanism, as defined by Dr. Kwame Nkrumah, is the total liberation and unification of African under sciencific socialism. African Must Unite, as well as Africans (that means me and you).

"The total liberation and unification of Africa under an All-African Socialist Government must be the primary objective of all Black [African] revolutionaries throughout the world. It is an objective which when achieved, will bring about the fulfillment of the aspirations of Africans and people of African descent everywhere. It will at the same time advance the triumph of the international socialist revolution."

"All people of African descent, whether they live in North or South America, the Caribbean, or in any part of the world are Africans and belong to the African nation."

-Dr. Kwame Nkrumah

A-APRP - Atlanta (http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/)

I think it's important to keep this thread alive so that people who were like me when I first arrived here, and don't have a clue as to what panafricanism is, can learn. I've learned so much since I asked this question. I found answers to questions I had to explain my own thoughts and behavior. This thread has given me a greater sense of purpose. I'm still learning and I think it's important that others do too.

Peace! :heart:

RED
Revolutionary Greetings,

Everyone on this forum sound so revolutionary that it is not an understatement to say we are impressed (ditto). Everyone who is talking about Pan-Africanism is on or about the head. We too are members of the All-African Peoples' Revolutionary Party, Missouri Chapter St. Louis proper. We agree with the Nkrumahist-Tureist definition of Pan-Africanism. We don't have much time, because we are at the slave and stealing time. Gotta go.

Greetings Ahmed,

The definition is broad. But it is the total liberation and unification of Africa under scientific socialism. You can read Ahmed Seko Toure piece Pan-Africanism, Revolution and Culture. You can look up the definition of Pan-Africanism as sited in the report from the 5th PAC (1945). Kwame Nkrumah talked about Pan-Africanism so much that you can read just about anything by him, but the Autobiography: Ghana would be a good choice.

Now what does the definition mean in practice for us. Well, in the All-African Peoples' Revolutionary Party we believe and practice building the Party as we abbreviate it. So this is accomplished by continuing to work with the Pan-African Congress of Azania, the Azania Peoples' Organization, the Democratic Party of Guinea, the African Party for the Independence of Guniea and Cape Verde, and their respective womens' wings.

We have maintained a strong political relationship with them as often times seen at African Liberation Day. Once we have the masses under the umbrella and build the mass Party we will see the fruits of our labor like never before.

As quiet as it has been kept, how many of us know that Africa has given the world another most recent contribution? In 2001 in the islands of Cape Verde, the PAICV came back to power after ten years out of power. The masses voted them back in. That is the Party of Abdel Djassi (Amlicar Cabral).

We need to take note of that and do more study and use this example to help us build the Party.

We look forward to more discussions on this pivotal topic. But we do want to say that economic freedom is part of the call for Pan-Africanism and that we also need to hook up with the sisters and brothers in West Indies i.e. Haiti, Europe i.e. Germany, et cetera.

Pan-Africanism is not in isolated to Africa, but Africa is primary. We hope this can help contribute to the discussion.

Comrade Kuumba Chi Nia

Revolutionary Greetings,

We gotta do all that my man. Listen, do you know of any or have information on the New Afrikan Peoples' Party. We heard a little bit, but we have not had the chance to really study them. Brotha push for the African United Front in your area as we make attempts at consolidating our efforts here.

Revolutionary Greetings,

XXPanthaXX if we spelled that correctly, personally it would be an honor to host such a topic. However, as if yet we don't have a PC and use the library and time may be tight. In the near future we will secure a PC and if the opportunity arises we will be glad to help

Hey NN, now you know if you wanted an explanation of PanAfricanism, all you had to do was ask me. Here it goes:

In all honesty there is not a set definition of Pan Africanism, you can't find a definition in Webster's Dictionary. Pan Africanism is an idea. Pan Africanism grew out of 19th century efforts to end slavery and the slave trade. At this time blacks worldwide were being oppressed. Slavery existed in America, South America, and the Carribean. Also the colonization of Africa (born out of the Berlin Conference of 1884 & 85) had begun. As a result of these events black people world wide began to realize that they faced common problems (slavery, colonization, and racism), and that it would be to their benefit to work together in an effort to solve these problems. Out of this realization came the Pan African Conferences of 1900 (London), 1919 (Paris), 1921 (London, Brussels, Paris), 1923 (London), 1927 (New York), and the last official one was in 1949. Some of the most influential blacks of the time participated in these meetings: Slyvester Williams, W.E.B. Du Bois, Marcus Garvey, Kwame Nkrumah, etc. The belief that people of African descent throughout the Diaspora (meaning spread throughout the world) share a common history, culture, and experience and should stick together. This belief is the principle idea behind Panafricanism. Bringing black people throughout the world together because of our common culture. Panafricanism can be expressed through history, literature, music, art, film, clothing, and food. I hope this helps


African, Pan-Africanism has always struck fear into the hearts and minds of the enemy. This is why efforts have always been made to destroy it. Garvey made some serious mistakes from which we must all learn. But, Garvey was attacked from many quarters because he was uniting the African Nation all over the world, not because of his mistakes. This is why for a long time, anti-Pan-Africanists have been slow to recognize and respect the contributions that Garvey made to the African Revolution.

It was during the Fifth Pan-African Congress that Osagyefo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah began to harmonize and synthesize the philosophy of the Garvey movement and that of the Dubois Movement. Note that Brother Dr. Dubois was, at least to some extent, committed to an ideology of social elitism. Check out his belief in a so-called "Talented Tenth" or elite cultural leadership for Africans. This concept was opposed to the philosophy of Brother Dr. Booker T. Washington (another great African who has not received his due respect among anti-Pan-Africanists). Washington makes very convincing arguements in favor of oganizing and serving the masses of Africans as opposed to just a select elite (See [U]Up From Slavery[U] by Booker T. Washington.) At the Fifth Pan-African Congress, Osagyefo received the reins of leadership for the first time. He implemented a philosophy more akin to that of Washington and Garvey than to that of Dubois. In order words, Osagyefo commited to organizing the African masses, while at the same time showing the best that African leadership had to offer. This led to the political Independence of the Republic of Ghana a few years later and the start of the African Revolution.

It is interesting to note that although Garvey and Washington had gone to join the Ancestors by the time of Ghana's Independence, Dubois was still alive. Furthermore, Dubois left the USA in the face of serious political harassment and oppression and became a citizen of the Ghana Republic. For the remaider of his life, he was a close friend of Osagyefo. So, we see the synthesiztion among the various African philosophies with Osagyfo.

What too many of us fail to understand is that with the emergence of Nkrumahism, Pan-Africanism attains a non-"racial" definition. Nkrumahism is about geo-politics, not "race". So, Pan-Africanism not only found harmony with the various philosophies among Africans (or Black People), it also harmonized with Pan-Arabism and the anti-colonial struggles of the Arabs. Thus, we see a close and intimate relationship develop between Osagyfo and Gamal Abd El-Nasser, the first president of Egypt. (Abd El-Nasser is usually considered to be an Arab.) Abd El-Nasser gave one of his daugthers to Osagyefo to be his wife. They bore several children who today are making significant and meaningful contribitions to the development of Pan-Africanism by harmonizing Pan-Arabism with Pan-Africanism. Thus, Nkrumahism becomes the highest expression of Pan-Africanism. Nkrumahism has always been about the unification of the entirety of the African Continent, not just those parts that are predominantly "Black". Thus, we see the Ghana-Guinea-Mali Union and emergence of the African Union.

A bunch of thugs made war against Osagyefo's government in Ghana. So, he was forced to live his life out outside Ghana. His family went to Egypt. He established headquarters in the People's Revolutionary Republic of Guinea where he continued to serve as Co-President of the Ghana-Guinea Union. Here Co-President Ahmed Seku Ture continued to develop Pan-Africanism alongside Osagyefo. Around this time, my late Comrade Dr. Kwame Ture began to help to build the All-African People's Revolutionary Party (AAPRP). Thus, Nkrumahism merged with Tureism. The official ideology of the AAPRP today is Nkrumahism-Tureism. Indeed, this is a high expression of Pan-Africanism.

My own humble efforts here do not deserve much consideration alongside the magnificant contributuions of the greatest Pan-Africanists such as Adam (Peace and Blessings be upon him), Joseph (Peace and Blessings be upon him), Moses (Peace and Blessings be upon him), Ruth (Peace and Blessings be upon her), Naomi (Peace and Blessings be upon her), Hagar (May Allah be pleased with her), Ishmael (Peace and Blessings be upon him), Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him), Khadija (May allah be pleased with her), Aisha (May allah be please with her), Solomon (Peace and Blessings be upon him), The Queen of Shaba, Nzinga, Equiano, Delaney, Cromwell, the Washingtons, the Garveys, M.L.King, Al-Sahabazz, the Duboises, El-Nasser, the Nkrumahs, Lumuba, Cabral, Al-Qadafi, the Tures and many, many others. But, being inspired by the outstanding example of Brother Gamal Nkrumah in Cairo (and many others, May Allah be Pleased with them all, and Bless them.), I am working to harmonize much of what is called Nasserism to Pan-Africanism. Thus we see a harmonization of Nasserism and Nkrumahism-Tureism. The emerging ideology can simply be defined as the ideology that synthesizes Nkrumahism-Tureism with Pan-Arabism to answer the the exigencies of the latest generation Arabs and Africans.

African, Pan-Africanism has always struck fear into the hearts and minds of the enemy. This is why efforts have always been made to destroy it. Garvey made some serious mistakes from which we must all learn. But, Garvey was attacked from many quarters because he was uniting the African Nation all over the world, not because of his mistakes. This is why for a long time, anti-Pan-Africanists have been slow to recognize and respect the contributions that Garvey made to the African Revolution.

It was during the Fifth Pan-African Congress that Osagyefo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah began to harmonize and synthesize the philosophy of the Garvey movement and that of the Dubois Movement. Note that Brother Dr. Dubois was, at least to some extent, committed to an ideology of social elitism. Check out his belief in a so-called "Talented Tenth" or elite cultural leadership for Africans. This concept was opposed to the philosophy of Brother Dr. Booker T. Washington (another great African who has not received his due respect among anti-Pan-Africanists). Washington makes very convincing arguements in favor of oganizing and serving the masses of Africans as opposed to just a select elite (See [U]Up From Slavery[U] by Booker T. Washington.) At the Fifth Pan-African Congress, Osagyefo received the reins of leadership for the first time. He implemented a philosophy more akin to that of Washington and Garvey than to that of Dubois. In order words, Osagyefo commited to organizing the African masses, while at the same time showing the best that African leadership had to offer. This led to the political Independence of the Republic of Ghana a few years later and the start of the African Revolution.

It is interesting to note that although Garvey and Washington had gone to join the Ancestors by the time of Ghana's Independence, Dubois was still alive. Furthermore, Dubois left the USA in the face of serious political harassment and oppression and became a citizen of the Ghana Republic. For the remaider of his life, he was a close friend of Osagyefo. So, we see the synthesiztion among the various African philosophies with Osagyfo.

What too many of us fail to understand is that with the emergence of Nkrumahism, Pan-Africanism attains a non-"racial" definition. Nkrumahism is about geo-politics, not "race". So, Pan-Africanism not only found harmony with the various philosophies among Africans (or Black People), it also harmonized with Pan-Arabism and the anti-colonial struggles of the Arabs. Thus, we see a close and intimate relationship develop between Osagyfo and Gamal Abd El-Nasser, the first president of Egypt. (Abd El-Nasser is usually considered to be an Arab.) Abd El-Nasser gave one of his daugthers to Osagyefo to be his wife. They bore several children who today are making significant and meaningful contribitions to the development of Pan-Africanism by harmonizing Pan-Arabism with Pan-Africanism. Thus, Nkrumahism becomes the highest expression of Pan-Africanism. Nkrumahism has always been about the unification of the entirety of the African Continent, not just those parts that are predominantly "Black". Thus, we see the Ghana-Guinea-Mali Union and emergence of the African Union.

A bunch of thugs made war against Osagyefo's government in Ghana. So, he was forced to live his life out outside Ghana. His family went to Egypt. He established headquarters in the People's Revolutionary Republic of Guinea where he continued to serve as Co-President of the Ghana-Guinea Union. Here Co-President Ahmed Seku Ture continued to develop Pan-Africanism alongside Osagyefo. Around this time, my late Comrade Dr. Kwame Ture began to help to build the All-African People's Revolutionary Party (AAPRP). Thus, Nkrumahism merged with Tureism. The official ideology of the AAPRP today is Nkrumahism-Tureism. Indeed, this is a high expression of Pan-Africanism.

My own humble efforts here do not deserve much consideration alongside the magnificant contributuions of the greatest Pan-Africanists such as Equiano, Delaney, Cromwell, Washington, Garvey, M.L.King, Al-Sahabazz, Dubois, El-Nasser, Nkrumah, Al-Qadafi, the Tures and many, many others. But, being inspired by the outstanding example of Brother Gamal Nkrumah in Cairo (and many others), I am working to harmonize much of what is called Nasserism to Pan-Africanism. Thus we see a harmonization of Nasserism and Nkrumahism-Tureism. The emerging ideology can simply be defined as the ideology that synthesizes Nkrumahism-Tureism with Pan-Arabism to answer the the exigencies of the latest generation Arabs and Africans.

Greetings dear African!

I have been following some of your posts and this one really sparked my interest.

Do you, ideologically speaking, identify as an "Nkrumahist"?

I dont think I have seen a reference on these boards beore to "Nkrumahism-Tureism" and I was a member of the A-APRP long ago before this particular ideological change (1978-81).

Another thing. Nkrumah called for an "All-African WORKING CLASS Party". As you may know, this does not exist anywhere on the continent, and how does the inclusion of Arabs facilitate this development when not all Arabs identify with Africa?

Greetings dear African!

I have been following some of your posts and this one really sparked my interest.

Do you, ideologically speaking, identify as an "Nkrumahist"?

I dont think I have seen a reference on these boards beore to "Nkrumahism-Tureism" and I was a member of the A-APRP long ago before this particular ideological change (1978-81).

Another thing. Nkrumah called for an "All-African WORKING CLASS Party". As you may know, this does not exist anywhere on the continent, and how does the inclusion of Arabs facilitate this development when not all Arabs identify with Africa?


It is great to see an African who has a working knowledge of the African Revolution from an Nkrumahist-Tureist perspective. Nkrumahism is best thought of as the highest manisfestion of Pan-Africanism.

Osagyefo never used the term "Working class" party or anything else as far as I know. Nkrumahism is based on the idea of mass movement such as was demostrated by the Honorables Booker T. Washington, Marcus Garvey and Dr. M.L. King. The African maases consisit of elements from all socio-economic classes. The important is the correct relationship to the African Revolution, not an European-style social class.

The Arabs that I know identify with Africa about to the same level as the Africans do. Of course we have fools both among the Arabs and the Africans. The bottomline is we cannot possibly draw a neat little line between Arabs and Africans. As you will notice in my comments above, throughout recoreded history, Arabs and Africans have been linked in some way or the other. It is a historical fact that ALL ARABS are direct descendants of Africans. The example of their tracing their ancestry back to the Prophet Abraham (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is one that cannot be repeated too often. It was through Abraham (Peace) and the Ethiopian sister Hagar (may Allah be pleased) that Arabs have come. Every conscious and intelligent Arab knows this mythology. The time has come for Africans to learn it and to know it, also.

Contact me at unification_front2yahoo.com for a discussion of private, internal Party affairs.

It is great to see an African who has a working knowledge of the African Revolution from an Nkrumahist-Tureist perspective. Nkrumahism is best thought of as the highest manisfestion of Pan-Africanism.

Osagyefo never used the term "Working class" party or anything else as far as I know. Nkrumahism is based on the idea of mass movement such as was demostrated by the Honorables Booker T. Washington, Marcus Garvey and Dr. M.L. King. The African maases consisit of elements from all socio-economic classes. The important is the correct relationship to the African Revolution, not an European-style social class.

The Arabs that I know identify with Africa about to the same level as the Africans do. Of course we have fools both among the Arabs and the Africans. The bottomline is we cannot possibly draw a neat little line between Arabs and Africans. As you will notice in my comments above, throughout recoreded history, Arabs and Africans have been linked in some way or the other. It is a historical fact that ALL ARABS are direct descendants of Africans. The example of their tracing their ancestry back to the Prophet Abraham (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is one that cannot be repeated too often. It was through Abraham (Peace) and the Ethiopian sister Hagar (may Allah be pleased) that Arabs have come. Every conscious and intelligent Arab knows this mythology. The time has come for Africans to learn it and to know it, also.

Contact me at unification_front2yahoo.com for a discussion of private, internal Party affairs.


"If armed struggle is to be waged effectively, it also, like the Party, must be centrally organized and directed. An All-African Military High Command under the political direction of the All-African working class party would then be able to plan unified strategy and tactics, and thus deliver the final blows at imperialism, colonialism, neocolonialism, and settler minority regimes."

Nkrumah, "Class Struggle in Africa", p-85-85.

"The rash of military coups in Africa reveals the lack of the socialist revolutionary organization , the need for the founding of an all-African vanguard working-class party, and for the creation of an all-African peoples' army and militia." ibid. p. 54

Nkrumah further states, " Socialist revolutionary struggle, whether in the form of political, economic or military action, can only be ultimately effective if it is organized, and if it has roots in the class struggle of the workers and peasants."

Osageyfo reiterates these points in the Handbook, but I have it packed somewhere because I never expected to ever even have anyone to discuss these point with!

Furthermore, thanks for the invite but I left the Party in 1981 so I can not discuss "private, internal Party affairs". To be totally honest and open, at the time I left, it was during a period when rumors were circulating concerning brother Kwame being "poisoned", alledgedly by another central committee member who is associated with another website that I shall not mention out of respect for all folks concerned!

therefore, my take on this is different and rather unique because of the nature of "internal" ideological struggle I waged almost 30 years ago, while during the same time this "socialist Revolutionary VANGUARD all-African working-class Party" has yet to emerge and fulfill its historical Mission.

I will not go so far to quote Fanon and conclude that this mission has been betrayed but Pan-Africanism has been emersed into micro-nationalist factionalism and what Nkrumah referred to in his book "Neocolonialism:the Last stage of Imperialism" as BALKANISATION.

In reference to your earlier statements concerning the Chinese and Arabs, let me remind you it was on his way to China that Osageyfo as overthrown, and the Chinese backed UNITA and FNLA in Angola.

I am really "Old School" and having grown up in the Los Angeles Black Arts Movement, I am keenly aware that many of the statements you cite concerning the Chinese support of specific liberation movements also points to "factionalism", and for these reason elements in the Party have been accused of being "Maoists", some of the same figures who were also former "Maoists" within the BPP. This further explains support for Mugabe's ZANU and the PAC in Azania, as opposed to support for the ANC, Mandela and, at the time ZAPU. Of course, this also is why Mandela and the ANC are critical and/or indifferent to Mugabe's Zimbabe. The classic Maosit/Marxist split within the Frontline states.

It is the responsibility of "the Party" to resolve these micro-nationalist tendencies, not to reinforce them. This is why I must give credit for the attempt to resolve difference with the Chinese and Arabs. China has played a progressive role in support of Frelimo, SWAPO, and to a lesser degree, PAC and the BCM. The Chinese also supported the FLNC in their opposition to Mobutu in Zaire (Congo). Therefore, what have the Chinese or Arabs contributed to "Socialist revolutionary Struggle" is my main concern. And in this area, it seems as if the "Arabs" have played a counter-revolutionary role in Chad, Sudan, Morocco and various other countries which were at one time headed along a revolutionary socialist path under revolutionary leadership such as Egypt (Nasser), Kenya (Mboya), Algeria, and Mali (Modibo Keita).

It is great to see an African who has a working knowledge of the African Revolution from an Nkrumahist-Tureist perspective. Nkrumahism is best thought of as the highest manisfestion of Pan-Africanism.

Osagyefo never used the term "Working class" party or anything else as far as I know. Nkrumahism is based on the idea of mass movement such as was demostrated by the Honorables Booker T. Washington, Marcus Garvey and Dr. M.L. King. The African maases consisit of elements from all socio-economic classes. The important is the correct relationship to the African Revolution, not an European-style social class.

The Arabs that I know identify with Africa about to the same level as the Africans do. Of course we have fools both among the Arabs and the Africans. The bottomline is we cannot possibly draw a neat little line between Arabs and Africans. As you will notice in my comments above, throughout recoreded history, Arabs and Africans have been linked in some way or the other. It is a historical fact that ALL ARABS are direct descendants of Africans. The example of their tracing their ancestry back to the Prophet Abraham (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is one that cannot be repeated too often. It was through Abraham (Peace) and the Ethiopian sister Hagar (may Allah be pleased) that Arabs have come. Every conscious and intelligent Arab knows this mythology. The time has come for Africans to learn it and to know it, also.

Contact me at unification_front2yahoo.com for a discussion of private, internal Party affairs.

If I may add, HAGAR as considered "Egyptian".

It was his third "wife" KETURAH who was "Ethiopian".

Peace!

]"If armed struggle is to be waged effectively, it also, like the Party, must be centrally organized and directed. An All-African Military High Command under the political direction of the All-African working class party would then be able to plan unified strategy and tactics, and thus deliver the final blows at imperialism, colonialism, neocolonialism, and settler minority regimes.
Nkrumah, "Class Struggle in Africa", p-85-85.

Now that you cite specifics, I seem to remember. It has been a long time since I studied those sources in detail. But, I think I can contribute a bit of more precision, here. Osagefo called for an All-African High Command. True. As I understand it, it was to be a means by which to coordinate the various local armies spread among the african (and Arab) states, something like the USA National Guard and Reserves under the Chairman of the Join Chief of Staff. This is not to be confused with the All-African People's Revolutionary Army, however.

"The rash of military coups in Africa reveals the lack of the socialist revolutionary organization , the need for the founding of an all-African vanguard working-class party, and for the creation of an all-African peoples' army and militia." ibid. p. 54

Once again, we talikng about the All-African People's Revolutionary Army, here. It was meant for the All-African People's Revolutionary Party (AAPRP) to lead this army, as I understand it. But ultimately, the All-African Socialist Government was to also be Led by the AAPRP. It is interesting to note that as Nkrumahism harmonizes with Tureism, the concept of the African United Front (AUF) develops. The National Black United Front (NBUF) is closely related to this concept.

I consider Al-Hajj Malik Al-Shabazz to be thr true founder of the AUF, although he never actually dealt with it in concrete organizational form. However, he did lay out the theory behind it, before he left us.

The concept of the Front or the United Front can be found among many of the great revolutionaries of the previous century. For instance, we see the Natinal liberation Front of Vietnam and of Algeria, the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique, the Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front, and the Palestine Liberation Organization, to name just a few. By studying these organizations, we learn that United Fronts usually consist of more than one political party. Their main purpose appear to be to bring various political parties under a central coordination to pursue a struggle for state political power. As power is attained, their purpose is to share power among the various parties.

Here in the Diaspora, we stand little to no chance of ever controlling independent state political power in the near or foreseeable future. Therefore, a new type of politcal organization is needed to bring us together and to coordinate our struggle in pursuit of BLACK POWER. By this, I mean the process by which we can express our political aspirations as we move towrds a United States of Africa and Arabia (USAA). In my vision, I see the Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia as that instrument. Once the USAA is established, all Africans and Arabs throuhout the world will be active citizens of the USAA, while at the same time, retaining, at will, their various individual citizenships in the various nation-states of the Diaspora.

But to get back to your statement, the concept of the vangard seems to show Osagyefo's learning process as he studies revolutionary history and theory; and learn from the experiences of peoples all over the world. I have already stated in this forum that at the Fifth Pan-African Congress, Osagyefo found harmony between Dubois's concept of the "Talented Tenth" and Washington's and Garvey's theories of mass struggle. Dubois was pretty much a life-long socialist. He was, without a doubt, greatly influenced by the great revolutions of Europe, especially the Russian Revolution, and later in life, the Chinese Revolution, as well. It seems that the "Talented Tenth" is closely akin to the concept of the vangard. Cool.

The problem is this: too many of us use this so-called vangard concept to cop-out and revert to the moribund theory of the "Talented Tenth". In the process, Dr. Dubois is venerated while Dr Washington and Marcus Garvey are vilified. Thus, we are cheated of the benefits of the contributions that these great Africans have made to the African Revolution. The so-called African intelligentia in this country delights itself is teaching our kids how stupid Garvey was. And Booker T. Washington is presented to the kids as a complete fool who was so stupid, he blah, blah, blah. The greatest institution that Africans have built in this country, Tuskegee University, is virtually ignored. We cannot even find a theory to guide us as we attempt to develop the businesses in our community. Get it?

Keep in mind that the edition of the Handbook of Revolutionary Warfare that is available to us is not the one that was origianlly intended for us. It appears that the CIA stole the intended edition when they enticed those thugs to attack Osagyefo's offices. In any event, when we weigh the passages you quoted against the entirety of Osagyefo's Collected Works, we will find that mass struggle is, and ought to be, our ideology. This in no way takes away from the need for the best possible leadership that we can obtain. Thus, there is really no contradiction between the theory of the vangard and the theory of mass struggle. But, do not allow us to get confused by un-necassarily using a language that is cut-and-paste from the manuals of European revolutiopnary struggle. We have our own struggle. I have just updated my post above. I added the names of great Pan-Africanists that we can learn from starting with the Holy Priophet Adam himself (Peace and bLessings be upon him). If we serious study those references, it would take a life time. There would be little to no time left to copy Europeans. We certainly have enough to study from our of own history to guide us to victory.


Nkrumah further states, " Socialist revolutionary struggle, whether in the form of political, economic or military action, can only be ultimately effective if it is organized, and if it has roots in the class struggle of the workers and peasants."

Osageyfo reiterates these points in the Handbook, but I have it packed somewhere because I never expected to ever even have anyone to discuss these point with!

Osagyfo has come to realize that war has been imposed upon us. Actually, the war did not originate here. From the very beginning, there was conflict between the progressive forces and the reactionary forces among us. But, we did not start this war. And, it is entirely a densive war on our part. As soon as the enemy stands down, we will cease to fight. But, we are not fools. We will defend ourselves. Nevertheless, Osagyefo seems to be too much of a gentleman to call it like it really is. It is like this: too many of our so-called leaders are betraying the African Revolution. Most are from the so-called elite classes. What we must understand, however, is that just because a lower middle class college professor or lawyer, for instances, make war against us; this does not mean that all lower class college professors and lawyers are our enemies. (This is why I do not like talking in terms of class. It is almost impossible to classify us into precise classes.) Our enemy is the institutions of exploitation and oppression, not classes.

Keep in mind also, that Osagyefo gave us vast volumes to study. It is much too easy to take a few words here and there out of context and twist and turn them in such a way as to really contradict the essence of what Nkrumahism is. For instance, Osagefo commanded us to be pragmatic. To this end, we see that there was never any so-called socaist revolution in Ghana, Mali or Guinea wher Osagyfo was Co-President. There were much effort to develop Africa. But, elements from all econmic theories were studied and implemeted.


Furthermore, thanks for the invite but I left the Party in 1981 so I can not discuss "private, internal Party affairs". To be totally honest and open, at the time I left, it was during a period when rumors were circulating concerning brother Kwame being "poisoned", alledgedly by another central committee member who is associated with another website that I shall not mention out of respect for all folks concerned!


I will modify the invitation. In private, we can discuss the internal affairs of the African Nation. This would include whatever we want to say about the various politcal parties among us. For instance, it would be insane to say that we could not criticize Bush's Republican Party. But honestly, I want to talk about the Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia. There is much that ought not be discussed in public, but are okay to discuss in private.


therefore, my take on this is different and rather unique because of the nature of "internal" ideological struggle I waged almost 30 years ago, while during the same time this "socialist Revolutionary VANGUARD all-African working-class Party" has yet to emerge and fulfill its historical Mission.

I will not go so far to quote Fanon and conclude that this mission has been betrayed but Pan-Africanism has been emersed into micro-nationalist factionalism and what Nkrumah referred to in his book "Neocolonialism:the Last stage of Imperialism" as BALKANISATION.

Without a doubt there is some truth to what you are saying, here. But, I think it would be a compromise of the principles of the African United Front as defined by Brother Malcolm to get too deep into this line of thinking in public. Email me.


In reference to your earlier statements concerning the Chinese and Arabs, let me remind you it was on his way to China that Osageyfo as overthrown, and the Chinese backed UNITA and FNLA in Angola.

This proves little that is worth wasting much time on.

I am really "Old School" and having grown up in the Los Angeles Black Arts Movement, I am keenly aware that many of the statements you cite concerning the Chinese support of specific liberation movements also points to "factionalism", and for these reason elements in the Party have been accused of being "Maoists", some of the same figures who were also former "Maoists" within the BPP. This further explains support for Mugabe's ZANU and the PAC in Azania, as opposed to support for the ANC, Mandela and, at the time ZAPU. Of course, this also is why Mandela and the ANC are critical and/or indifferent to Mugabe's Zimbabe. The classic Maosit/Marxist split within the Frontline states.

Weellllllll, yeah. But, keep in mind that these matters have not prevented Mugabe and Mandela from moving forward to the African Union and hopefully to the United States of African and Arabia, eventually. I would certainly find no problem including them in the Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia.

It is the responsibility of "the Party" to resolve these micro-nationalist tendencies, not to reinforce them.

No. Point blank: this is the job of the political Front, not the job of the political party.

This is why I must give credit for the attempt to resolve difference with the Chinese and Arabs. China has played a progressive role in support of Frelimo, SWAPO, and to a lesser degree, PAC and the BCM. The Chinese also supported the FLNC in their opposition to Mobutu in Zaire (Congo). Therefore, what have the Chinese or Arabs contributed to "Socialist revolutionary Struggle" is my main concern. And in this area, it seems as if the "Arabs" have played a counter-revolutionary role in Chad, Sudan, Morocco and various other countries which were at one time headed along a revolutionary socialist path under revolutionary leadership such as Egypt (Nasser), Kenya (Mboya), Algeria, and Mali (Modibo Keita).[/QUOTE]


No doubt, you are right. But guess what: hasn't Mobutu done more damage to Africa than El-Nasser? Ain't Mobutu a "Black" African while El-Nasser is an Arab African? In any case, we can not change the historical fact that Arabs are the children of Ishmael (Peace and Blessings be upon him) who is, without a doubt, an African through the Prophetess Hagar (Peace abnd Blessings be upon her). To be blunt, they are every bit as big of fools as Africans are. They are just as confused and brain-washed as we are. Our job is to show leadership to All Africans, including Arabs.

As a point of further clarification, fratricide has been committed in many, perhaps most, if not all African countries. But, Diasporan African did not get all emotional about it until George W. Bush and Con-(you fil in the blank) Rice started lying and claiming that the Sudense Africans were not Africans, but Arabs. Give me an ever loving break!! Al-Bashir as black as he is is not an African? Whew! What they do not tell us is that Arabs are Africans. So, poor little humble folks like me have to go through ...just to clarfy things and try to wake up a few Africans to the hard, cold, scientoific facts of reality. And, it is precisely those who like to claim that they are progressive who keep fighting me!, not Bush and those homosexuals (Clinton was a heterosexual. But, he could lie almost as bad as Bush.) running this government.

I have got an even better one for you: guess what. Barak Huesein Obama is not an African!!!!!!!!!!!! I am trying to be "resapectful" here. Plus, I try to be a good Muslim. But when I think about this, sometimes it gets kind of hard to avoid using a few bad words that are left overs from my days as a good Christian. Now is the time for us to start waking up. What if the Republicans start telling us that the Ibos are not Africans? "Guess what, y'all. Them Ibos are A-rabs. They pray to that no good, rotten, stinking Moor Ham It [Muhammad ur-Rasul-Allah (PEACE AND BLESSINGS be upon him)]. They just totally dis-respects y'all's Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [Isa ur-Rasul-Allah (Peace and Blessings be upom him)]. I thinks I need to go to the UN and get y'all a resolution saying them done kilt too many Nigerians. So, they must be committing genocise jsut like Hitler done to them good ole poor Jews." We must stop letting our enemies divide and conquer us.

No doubt, you are right. But guess what: hasn't Mobutu done more damage to Africa than El-Nasser? Ain't Mobutu a "Black" African while El-Nasser is an Arab African? In any case, we can not change the historical fact that Arabs are the children of Ishmael (Peace and Blessings be upon him) who is, without a doubt, an African through the Prophetess Hagar (Peace abnd Blessings be upon her). To be blunt, they are every bit as big of fools as Africans are. They are just as confused and brain-washed as we are. Our job is to show leadership to All Africans, including Arabs.

As a point of further clarification, fratricide has been committed in many, perhaps most, if not all African countries. But, Diasporan African did not get all emotional about it until George W. Bush and Con-(you fil in the blank) Rice started lying and claiming that the Sudense Africans were not Africans, but Arabs. Give me an ever loving break!! Al-Bashir as black as he is is not an African? Whew! What they do not tell us is that Arabs are Africans. So, poor little humble folks like me have to go through ...just to clarfy things and try to wake up a few Africans to the hard, cold, scientoific facts of reality. And, it is precisely those who like to claim that they are progressive who keep fighting me!, not Bush and those homosexuals (Clinton was a heterosexual. But, he could lie almost as bad as Bush.) running this government.

I have got an even better one for you: guess what. Barak Huesein Obama is not an African!!!!!!!!!!!! I am trying to be "resapectful" here. Plus, I try to be a good Muslim. But when I think about this, sometimes it gets kind of hard to avoid using a few bad words that are left overs from my days as a good Christian. Now is the time for us to start waking up. What if the Republicans start telling us that the Ibos are not Africans? "Guess what, y'all. Them Ibos are A-rabs. They pray to that no good, rotten, stinking Muhammad. They just totally dis-respects y'all's Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I thinks I need to go to the UN and get y'all a resolution saying them done kilt too many Nigerians. So, they must be committing genocise jsut like Hitler done to them good ole poor Jews." We must stop letting our enemies divide and conquer us.

Most of this I agree with but must take exception on to points: One, in references to the anture of the "enemy" and social classes, and two, your statements concerning the responsibility of the "front" rather than "the Party".

I think that your conclusions on these to strategic points are actually a departure from "Nkrumahism".

Nkrumah had acute perspective concerning the role of the Vanguard Party, in the socialist revolutionary struggle, the nature of this ideological class struggle, and the class basis for this struggle, with the working class and peasants playing the vanguard role.

Nkrumah specifically spoke against elites and elitism so I am not advancing the notion of a talented tenth. Quite the opposite.

This bings into focus my problem with "the Party" having spent more than 30 years organizing college "Students as the spark of the Revolution" while neglecting to organizing the working class masses.

I also have reservating concerning your statement concerning "sociaist revolutionary struggle" because in the countries I mentioned, this is exactly what Nkrumah, Sekou Toure, Tom Mboya, Modibo Keita, Augostino Neto, Eduardo Modlane, Robert Sobuke, Steven Biko, Amilcar Cabral, David Sibeko and Robert Mugabe, just to name a few, supposedly were engaged in.

Failure to recognize these this amounts to capitulating to the African nationalist and petty-bourgeouisie, reformist political action and abandonment of revolutionary CLASS struggle.

I find it interesting that you are speaking of African-Arab unity without addressing CAPITALISM, as most of the "Arab" states are pro-capitalist and anti-socialist, for the most part.

I have no problems uniting in solidarity with "Arabs" or anyone else, for that matter, who is fighting against western imperialism, and for the "total liberation and unification under scientific socialism".

However, if they are opposed to "scientific socialism" they are thus opposed to the very essence and meaning of Pan-Africanism.

Peace!

Okay. Now we fixing to get down to the nitty gritty. Please do not take my dis-agreement with your line of thinking as a sign of dis-respect. I am growing by interacting with you. I hope you can also benefit.

Most of this I agree with but must take exception on to points: One, in references to the anture of the "enemy" and social classes, and two, your statements concerning the responsibility of the "front" rather than "the Party".

I think that your conclusions on these to strategic points are actually a departure from "Nkrumahism".

African, there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking, as such. I am glad to know that you are thinking. Our problem is too many of us do not think.


Nkrumah had acute perspective concerning the role of the Vanguard Party,

Please cut-and-paste that staement from Nkrumah's WORKS.

in the socialist revolutionary struggle, the nature of this ideological class struggle, and the class basis for this struggle, with the working class and peasants playing the vanguard role.

Nkrumah specifically spoke against elites and elitism so I am not advancing the notion of a talented tenth. Quite the opposite.

This bings into focus my problem with "the Party" having spent more than 30 years organizing college "Students as the spark of the Revolution" while neglecting to organizing the working class masses.

It is acceptable to talk about the Party in this context in public, I think. Please keep in mind that as proceed in the theory of mass struggle, it is helpful to recall our actual history. Osagyfo spent several years as a student in this country and elsewhere. He was just short of earning his PHD before his health began to fail and he had to return home. But once he began the ASfrican Revolution, he was awarded an Honorary Doctorate. Throughout his student years, he made meaningful contributions towards organizing and making preparations for the Revolution. Clearly this proves sufficiently the value and significance paying attention to African stydents.

But, we are talking about Nkrumahism-Tureism, here. Accordingly, we cannot simply concentrate on what Osagyfo alone said or did not say. To fully appreciate our ideology, we must look at the the contributions of the Tures, as well. By Tures, I mean Almany Samory Ture, Ahmed Seku Ture and Kwame Ture (not to mention the many African women involved as mothers, sisters, spouses and daughters, etc.) Dr. Kwmae Ture was certainly a student organizer. The Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) payed an important role in the developement of Pan0-Africanism. The concept of Black Power, which at the core of Pan-Africanism, was developed largely by SNCC. Brother Kwame made a major role in SNCC.

I do not want to get too deeply into arguing the pros and cons of organizing students, at this point. Suffice it to say that throughout history, student have, and still; do, made and make revolution.


I also have reservating concerning your statement concerning "sociaist revolutionary struggle" because in the countries I mentioned, this is exactly what Nkrumah, Sekou Toure, Tom Mboya, Modibo Keita, Augostino Neto, Eduardo Modlane, Robert Sobuke, Steven Biko, Amilcar Cabral, David Sibeko and Robert Mugabe, just to name a few, supposedly were engaged in.

Failure to recognize these this amounts to capitulating to the African nationalist and petty-bourgeouisie, reformist political action and abandonment of revolutionary CLASS struggle.

Well, I am certainly that many would like to see me "capitulate". However, reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I find it interesting that you are speaking of African-Arab unity without addressing CAPITALISM, a
s most of the "Arab" states are pro-capitalist and anti-socialist, for the most part.

Yeah. It's called green dollarism. By the way, send me a few bucks. I kinda like that stuff myself.


I have no problems uniting in solidarity with "Arabs" or anyone else, for that matter, who is fighting against western imperialism, and for the "total liberation and unification under scientific socialism".

However, if they are opposed to "scientific socialism" they are thus opposed to the very essence and meaning of Pan-Africanism.

Peace!

As-Salam Alaikum.

Okay. Now we fixing to get down to the nitty gritty. Please do not take my dis-agreement with your line of thinking as a sign of dis-respect. I am growing by intercting with you. I hope you can also benefit.



As-Salam Alaikum.

Interesting response.

First of all, I am quite used to folks disagreement with my "perspective" so no offense or sense of disrespect is taken.

Therefore, I will not read too much into your comment concerning "green dollarism".

However, I will suggest that you do not trivialize the issue.

I am 49 years old and in my time have witnessed the rise, fall and demise of numerous "liberation movements", "nationalist fronts" and "revolutionary organizations". And in many instances, that very same "green dollarism" was used as a tool to co-opt these very same "revolutionaries".

Also, if you carefully read previous posts in certain of the threads on this mesage board, you will find that many before you came and went, propagating the very same "ideology".

I am more concerned, at this point, with assessing in a "historical dialectic" manner the success and/or failure of these "revolutionaries" rather than re-visit ideological strategies, tactics and objectives from my "underaduate" era.

If you know what i mean......

Wa Alaikum As-salaam..

Interesting response.

First of all, I am quite used to folks disagreement with my "perspective" so no offense or sense of disrespect is taken.

Therefore, I will not read too much into your comment concerning "green dollarism".

However, I will suggest that you do not trivialize the issue.

I am 49 years old and in my time have witnessed the rise, fall and demise of numerous "liberation movements", "nationalist fronts" and "revolutionary organizations". And in many instances, that very same "green dollarism" was used as a tool to co-opt these very same "revolutionaries".

Also, if you carefully read previous posts in certain of the threads on this mesage board, you will find that many before you came and went, propagating the very same "ideology".

I am more concerned, at this point, with assessing in a "historical dialectic" manner the success and/or failure of these "revolutionaries" rather than re-visit ideological strategies, tactics and objectives from my "underaduate" era.

If you know what i mean......

Wa Alaikum As-salaam..



Thanks for the links, African. I have been referred to to mypsce.com more than once. But, I have problems understanding what is going on there. I will try to study it more. I can see that it may be something worthwhile. propheticmusic.com also interess me. My son has done some work along that line. I will try to remember give his link. Here it is: http://compose.mail.yahoo.com/?To=nicknelson%40consultant.com. This is a business link that might interest you and the users. I believe in Africans working together and pooling resources. This is what the Front is all about.

As for historical mateialism, there is no mystery, there. Brother Malcolm tells us to study history. Simple. The problem is this: the enemy controls the our means of communication. This is how they are able to keep us brain-washed. We must be wise enough to avoid the traps they always set for us. This is what keep getting me louled up. We cannot even hold an intelligent discussion of African affairs without some fool interjecting some nonsense he learned rom the enemy. This is why waste far too much time arguing about crazy stuff.

The Party was the first victim that I saw this happen to. We decided to organize. We were students seeking education and careers. But, as soon as we started defending ourselves against zionistinterference in our affairs, we were attacked from within the organization. The first trick they pulled was feminism. We could not even hold a meeting without some woman acting crazy. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MARRIED COUPLES in our group, at that time, got divorced.

We divorced our wives and kept trying to move forward. Then they sent the gay movement after us. As I write, we have "males" coming to meetings dressed up like sisters. The enire Party Chapter in this area has been dominated by cross-dressers for the last 15 years, or so. I do not understand cross-dressing. So, I removed my children from all Party programs. There have been too reports f child abuse in the Catholic Church and other places for me to risk the safety of my children with cross-dressers. For all I know, theywill not harm the children. But, I do not have the time or the will to study cross-dressing to find out for sure. In the meantime, I will risk my children.

The biggest problem with this sexuality thing is this: nobody is allowed to discuss it. This may very well be my last statement on this issue in this forum. But, I have tried to avoid offending anyone. But, you keep pushing the issue. I will not lie to another African. What I have said is not meant to offend, but I have called it the way I see it, in terms of historical materialism, or as you say "historical dialetics". I just hope that just one African can benefit from what I just said. It is the truth.

I have called for a political front. The front is my attempt to avoid this kind of in-fighting. I have said this before. But, there are forces affot in this community that knows this better than I do. This is why they keep provking me in such a way as to pick fights over evry little petty trivia issue. They want to bog us down in in-fighting so that Bush and his little lesbians can pick a fight against Iran and Sudan. All they want is to control the oil. This is our oil. Allah gave these resources to us. Allah commanded us to keep these resources and to eat of them. I have shown many Africans those Verses from the Book of Genesis. But, I have never received a positive response. Yet, people would have me believe that they are true believers.

Let's get off this subject and get down to making some concrete progress.

Interesting response.

First of all, I am quite used to folks disagreement with my "perspective" so no offense or sense of disrespect is taken.

Therefore, I will not read too much into your comment concerning "green dollarism".

However, I will suggest that you do not trivialize the issue.

I am 49 years old and in my time have witnessed the rise, fall and demise of numerous "liberation movements", "nationalist fronts" and "revolutionary organizations". And in many instances, that very same "green dollarism" was used as a tool to co-opt these very same "revolutionaries".

Also, if you carefully read previous posts in certain of the threads on this mesage board, you will find that many before you came and went, propagating the very same "ideology".

I am more concerned, at this point, with assessing in a "historical dialectic" manner the success and/or failure of these "revolutionaries" rather than re-visit ideological strategies, tactics and objectives from my "underaduate" era.

If you know what i mean......

Wa Alaikum As-salaam..



Thanks for the links, African. I have been referred to to mypsce.com more than once. But, I have problems understanding what is going on there. I will try to study it more. I can see that it may be something worthwhile. propheticmusic.com also interests me. My son has done some work along that line. I will try to remember to give you his link. Here it is: http://compose.mail.yahoo.com/?To=nicknelson%40consultant.com. This is a business link that might interest you and the users. I believe in Africans working together and pooling resources. This is what the Front is all about.

As for historical mateialism, there is no mystery, there. Brother Malcolm tells us to study history. Simple. The problem is this: the enemy controls the our means of communication. This is how they are able to keep us brain-washed. We must be wise enough to avoid the traps they always set for us. This is what keep getting me fouled up. We cannot even hold an intelligent discussion of African affairs without some fool interjecting some nonsense he learned from the enemy. This is why we waste far too much time arguing about crazy stuff.

The Party was the first victim that I saw this happen to. We decided to organize. We were students seeking education and careers. But, as soon as we started defending ourselves against zionist interference in our affairs, we were attacked from within the organization. The first trick they pulled was feminism. We could not even hold a meeting without some woman acting crazy. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MARRIED COUPLES in our group, at that time, got divorced.

We divorced our wives and kept trying to move forward. Then they sent the gay movement after us. As I write, we have "males" coming to meetings dressed up like sisters. The enire Party Chapter in this area has been dominated by cross-dressers for the last 15 years, or so. I do not understand cross-dressing. So, I removed my children from all Party programs. There have been too many reports of child abuse in the Catholic Church and other places for me to risk the safety of my children with cross-dressers. For all I know, they will not harm the children. But, I do not have the time or the will to study cross-dressing to find out for sure. In the meantime, I will not risk my children.

The biggest problem with this sexuality thing is this: nobody is allowed to discuss it. This may very well be my last statement on this issue in this forum. But, I have tried to avoid offending anyone. But, you keep pushing the issue. I will not lie to another African. What I have said is not meant to offend, but I have called it the way I see it, in terms of historical materialism, or as you say "historical dialetics". I just hope that just one African can benefit from what I just said. It is the truth.

I have called for a political front. The front is my attempt to avoid this kind of in-fighting. I have said this before. But, there are forces affoot in this community that knows this better than I do. This is why they keep provoking me in such a way as to pick fights over evry little petty trivia issue. They want to bog us down in in-fighting so that Bush and his little lesbians can pick a fight against Iran and Sudan. All they want to do is to control the oil. This is our oil. Allah gave these resources to us. Allah commanded us to keep these resources and to eat of them. I have shown many Africans those Verses from the Book of Genesis. But, I have never received a positive response. Yet, people would have me believe that they are true believers.

Let's get off this subject and get down to making some concrete progress.

Yes your explanation makes a lot of sense, so much so that now I'm really curious as to what has happened since the 1949 conference.

Since the Fifth Pan-African Congress, the African Revolution has been moving steadily forward. There have been times when things have slowed down some, such as now; but overall progress has been in the positive.

I am convinced that much of the historical evidence has been either hidden or destroyed. What happened soon after the Fifth Pan-African Congress is serious struggle fot independence of African states ensued. At the same time new and higher levels of organization were brought about. The All-African People's Conference was convened in Accra. Interesting enough, few people are aware of the All-African People's Conference which was the logical sucessor to the Pan-African Congress Movement. Instead, the Movemnet fragmented as various forces called for a Sixth Pan-Congress a & 7th, etc. The net effect of that was divert attention from the true Revolution.

Also, we cannot ignore the significance that the African Revolution had in sparking the Civil Rights Movement under Martin Luther King, Jr. So, eventually, not only did the entire world rebell against colonialism and zionism, but we rebelled against racism in the good ole racist USA.

At the same time, reactionary forces were busy. Some Africans did not want to unite with anyone except Europeans. But, the people of Guinea kicked the setlers out, with very little ceremony. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seku_Ture.) By then, the significance of Arab and African solidarity and common purpose became apparent to the enemy. But even so, the Casablanca Group of African States was orgainzed.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_group.)

The Casablance Group led the way to the Organization of African Unity, headquarted in Addis Ababa under His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAU)
In this connection, it is instructive to notice what happened to His Imperial Majesty. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selassie.) The demise of His Imperial Majesty was follwed by what is known in history as the Red Terror in Africa. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Ethiopia%29.) Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Pan-Africanists were slaughtered like dogs. (May Allah accept the Prayers of all of them.) (That was not genocide. That was merely fratricide, something that the great pwers of the world chose to ignore, "benign neglect". It is only genocide, it seems, when oil is involved.)

Only, only a very small number, less than 10 million men, women and children were caught in the crossfire and victimized by Christian thugs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_-_1985_famine_in_Ethiopia.) Shucks, folks cannot even remember what happened....

Since these events, there has been much confusion among Africans, in general; and Pan-Africanists, in particular. Clearly, a worldwide conspiracy has been launched against us. Even so, the Revolution is very much alive. Unfortunately, too many of the current genaration of Africans leaders do not even know that they are leaders. All of the leaders of the past have gone to be with the ancestors. So, we have leaders who are just waiting around for unification and developent to just fall from the sky, by-in-by. They seem to have a messiahic complex whereby their Lord and Savior is going to show-up soon and solve all of our problems without us having to do anything other than just sit around and bite hot-air. When they are not biting air, they are shooting hot air at their brothers and sisters...so much so that we seem to have fallen into the habit of fratricide. We still remember Rwanda, although we cannot seem to remember Ethiopia. But, so far our leaders have been unable or unwilling to avoid repeating the mistakes of Ethiopia and Rwanda. May Allah help us all.

See also the Union of African States (

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_African_States) and the United Arab Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic.) Notice the Red, Black in Green.

I don't have much time so I'll be short with this response.

African, please do not think that I am picking on you. But clearly, you are on the wrong track already. You are a leader. As such, You have a duty to find the time; to make the time. Until we all learn to show a sense of leadership vis-a-vis our children and our youth in general, we have problems. Do not try to push your duty and responsibilities onto the shoulders of the next generation. Try being a responsible adult.

The continued progress of the PanAfrican Conferences were slowed by the beginning of the modern Civil Rights Movement in America (1950

Wrong again. The Civil Rigts movement was part and parcel of the overall African Revolution. It was impossible for Africans to receive any kind of respect before the emergence of BLACK POWER in the form of Egyptian political independence followed by that of Sudan, Ghana, Guinea and the the majority of African nations, including the Arab nations.

For instnace, in the early 1960's; an African could not even enter a resturant to buy a hamburger while traveling long distances over-the-road. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in) We were humiliated as African, Arab and Asian diplomats and students began to travel between New York City and Washington, D.C. Whenever they were mistaken for a Diasporic African, they would be refused courtesy and service. Therefore their struggle became identical to ours in the good ole racist USA.

Accordingly, Diasporic African students on the East Coast decided to just stand up for their human dignity. Thus, began the Sit-in Movement... This led directly to the BLACK POWER movement and the development of BLACK POWER into Pan-Africanist theories.

and the renewed movement for Indepence in Africa (most of the countries in Africa would achieve their independence in the late 1950s & 60s). In other words the major participants of the PanAfrican conferences became consumed with changing the social structure in their own countries and ceased to work together worldwide.

Wrong again, African.

Subsequent to the Fifth Pan-African Congress, the All-African People's Conerence (AAPC)was convened in Accra, Ghana. This included representatives from the entirety of the African continent. Keep in mind that only Gahna, Guinea, Ethiopia, Liberia, Sirres Leone, Egypt and a few other African states, perhaps Morroco, were independent at the time of the AAPC. Therefore, it was necessary for those states that were independent to offer moral, material and logistical support to the struggles for indepnence throughout the entiety of the the African continent, the Carribean and the good ole racist USA. This is why the AAPRP, although most of its political work was done in the diaspora in it's early years, was founded and based in Africa.

Forthermore, a worldwide anti-colonialist and anti -Zionist movement developed. From the very beginning, the Pan-Africanist Movement, after the independence of Egypt, Ghana and Guinea and Sudan (and a few others), was closely linked to the anti-colonial movements in Asia. We supported the Struggles of the the peoples of Southeast Asia, China, Latin America, the Philipines and many other places around the world, and still do. This is where the real probelms began.

The neo-Pan-Africanists, later to identified as the anti-Africanists in sheep clothing, began to agitate against our Asian allies. We saw riots directed against Asian merchants and other such non-sense. Later they began a conspiracy against the Hispanics. We are only now beginning to outgrow the damage that was inflicted upon us from these forces. Keep in mind that utimately these very same reactionary forces in our own community came back to get us in a very real way. We need look no furhter than the notorious Red Terror movement to see what I mean. Hundreds of thousand were slaughtered directly. Milions were slaghterd indirectly (May Allah accept their Prayers.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Ethiopia%29.)


So to answer your question NN, I guess a shortcoming would be that with PanAfricanism it can be difficult to decide whether to concentrate more heavily on solving the problems around you or the problems effecting blacks worldwide. Also a new Pan African group was formed in the 1990s: the New Pan-African Movement (PANAF). They hold periodic meetings by African heads of state and development officials to attempt to fix African problems. They officially meet in 1991 (Ivory Coast), and 1993 (Gabon). They are headed by the Rev. Leon Sullivan, and endorse free trade, domocratization, and an international solution to the politicial problems of blacks. However they are not that high profile (I haven't heard anything from them in quite awhile).

Although Rev Sullivan's organization s part and parcel a part of the overall Pan-Africanist Movement, and it has rendered much valuable services to the African Revolution, it is absolutely incorrect to presume that this movement is in the leadeship of the African Revolution. The political leadership of the African Revolution is, and ought to be, in the hands of political parties up to now when political fronts (defined as multipoliticalparties) are beginning to take leadership. During the heyday of Rev Sullivan's movement, the ANC, ZANU-PF, MPLA, FreliMo and the PAC of Azania were at the forefront. Now that victory has been acheived, the next stage of the Revolution is emerging in the form of the African Union, and many political parties aspiring to form a political front as a way-station to a United Staes of Africa and Arabia. In fact, the main purpose of the politcal front at this time is to be a clearing house to elect a government for the United States of Africa and Arabia.

In the past, Conferences and Congresses have been organized on the basis of invitations, ONLY. Virtually any ole body could call together a few friends and relatives, (bring your own bottle, please) throw a big shing dig and name it a Pan-African Congress. Now, a call has been issued for delegates to be directly elected by the African masses. (http://fudaa.blogspot.com/.) These delgates will have full legitimacy and full authority to establish a government that will be duly recognized by all civilized nations of the world.

Hot air will no longer suffice.

NNqueen,
For me Pan-Africanism is two fold. What we are going to do to secure that Africa is never attacked again in the future. And what we are going to do, to improve our humble home and our people in Africa.

The best way to secure Africa is through the establishment of a United States of Africa and Arabia.

Great reply CrunchyStuff, and nice to meet you. To answer NN again:

There are different ideologies (or different approaches) to PanAfricansim. If for no other reason this is a reflection of the different cultures & economic structures of the various countries in the world where people of African Descent live. Each country, each ethnic group, each nationality (African, African American, African Carribean, African European, etc.), has a different perspective to bring. Many Pan Africanist are socialist, and the debate whether socialism or capitialism is most beneficial to the improvement of black people worldwide is one of the hottest debates among Pan Africanist. These are the types of issues that are better discussed at a Pan African Conference like those of the early 1900s, which is why I would personally like for them to continue.

You are right about one thing: this nonsense is hot. Thsi is why so much effort and so much energy has been wasted is distraction strategies away from Pan-Africanism. There is a counter revolution movement afoot. It was originally led by anti-Pan-Africanist forces such as Menguistu. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg)

There's no single Pan-Africanists group under a single ideology, mission or purpose?

The Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia is an organization dedicated to bringing all Pan-Africanist organizatins and parties into a single effort to elect an All-African People's Constitutional Convention.

You are right about one thing: this nonsense is hot. Thsi is why so much effort and so much energy has been wasted is distraction strategies away from Pan-Africanism. There is a counter revolution movement afoot. It was originally led by anti-Pan-Africanist forces such as Menguistu. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg)


LOL!

Your entire perspective is fallacious.

It was "originally led" by the reactionaries responsible for the Murder of Pan-Africanist leader Patrice Lumumba, and the reactionaries responsible for the overthrow of Dr. Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana and Ahmed Ben Bella in Algeria. Long before "Mengistu" came to power in Ethiopia.

LOL!

Your entire perspective is fallacious.

It was "originally led" by the reactionaries responsible for the Murder of Pan-Africanist leader Patrice Lumumba, and the reactionaries responsible for the overthrow of Dr. Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana and Ahmed Ben Bella in Algeria. Long before "Mengistu" came to power in Ethiopia.

True. But, this discussion is about a few very limited ides and subjects. We do not expect to cover the enitrety of African history, here. The best that we can hope for is to give the next generation the tools that they will need to correctly analyze our history so that they can avoid the mistakes that we made.

That is extremely important: we made mistakes, big mistakes. Accordingly, we have a duty to act like mature adults and own up to our mistakes in front of everybody, especilly the leaders of the next generation. We do not want them to make the mistakes that we made.

Africans, do not ignore fratricide among us. When Menguistu commited fratricide, too many of us ignored it. All that the Chistian community did was send in a few boat loads of wheat fatback and couple barrels of chitterlings as millions of our brotehrs and sisters starved under Menguistu. Now, they want to cry crocodile tears over the war in Western Sudan. Be assured, this is not because they have found love for Africans overnight. It because the Islamic Republic has immease petroleum reources. But, the pigs messed up. They bombed Sudan. Now, Sudan is selling her oil to the People's Republic. so, they are bluffing. They do not want any piece of Sudan because they know that they cannot win, there, any more than they can win in Irag or Afghanistan.

So, I am against this propaganda not bexuse I fear for the safty of Sudan. Beleive me, we can defend Sudan. The only thing that worries me is we, as Africans, are not learning to avoid walking into divide and conquor traps set for us by Rev. Mr. Charley.

I want to take this opportunity to clear up an earlier mis-understnding that developed because Brother Omowale and me. I call you a name as a tease because I mistakenly thought that the two of us had developed a degree of comaraderie that permitted light teasing and joking. It seems that I was wrong. Therefore, I want to extend to you an invitation to join us at fudaa.blogspot.com under Nkrumahis-Tureist Economics to continue developing an economic theory to guide us as we enter the final stages of the African Revolution. This is a very serious minded blog.

see i didn't know all dis here so i learn something today
Thanks


African, there is till much more to learn. History is our best teacher. Keep learning.

Forward! LONG LIVE THE NATION!!!!!!!!!!!

NNqueen,

To hip you to some of the more sublime things about Pan-Africanism as I know them and teach them.

African, always remember that no matter what one knows and thinks one knows, there is always more to learn. Personally, I try to learn something new each hour of each day. In fact, teaching is one of the best ways to learn. In order to learn by teaching, one must be wise enough and humble enough to learn from one's student.

Pan-Africanism can also be socialist or capitalist or based on communalism.



Please see my thread under Pan-Africanism, Nkrumahism-Tureism in this forum. For a more in-depth theory, go to fudaa.blogspot.com. Scroll down to Nrumahist-Tureist Economics. Please study the links and let me know what you think.


Pan-Africanist can be followers of Garvey, who believed in the idea of an African Empire, more capitalist.

The Honorable Marcus Garvey was, in fact, elected Provisional President of Africa. I do not know that he ever called for an Empire. It seems to me that a president heads a republic, or a united republic, rather than an empire.

Pan-Africanist can be more like Dubois and Nkrumah who believed in scientific socialism.

The Honorable Dr. W.E.B. Dubois became a member of the American Communist Party, towards the end of his life. He was a friend and collaborator of Osagyfo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah, the first President of the Republic of Ghana. However, we should avoid confusing communism with scientific socialism. (See Marxism-Leninism and Nkrumahism by Comrade Dr. Kwame Ture (formerly Stokely Carmichael.) This is available in this forum under Pan-Africanism, scroll down to Marxism...It is also at fudaa.blogspot.com along with other pertinent information.

Pan-Africanism can also incorporate the many veins of Afrocentrism, or the Negritude movement [what Afrocentrism was called in Africa back in the 60's].


We are into deep water on this one. If you do not know how to swim, be careful.

Pan-Africanism incorporates all these ideologies and more.


The highest expression of Pan-Africanism is Nkrumahism-Tureism. See the references above.

The main thrust of Pan-Africanism, is that you are thinking in terms of the African Diaspora [ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE WORLD] and the mother Continent[ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE WITH IN AFRICA].


Pan-Africanism is about serving the African Nation (the African Union, plus the African Diaspora.) It is a theory and means by which "Africans and People of African descent all over the world are Africans and belong to the African Nation: Africans for Africa."


Pan- just means ALL.

All-Africans or All of Africa and her children, no matter where they are in the world.

Exactly.

For me when I say I am Pan-African these are the things that I believe that I mean.

1. I believe that all Black Children deserve a Black Education.

African children, please. The Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia has a Committee on Education and Social Development. See the references avove.


2. I believe that Black Americans should plan to return to Africa.

"Black Americans" should recognize and respect their Africanness before making an actual physical return to Africa. Otherwise, they will do more damage than good for the African Revolution. AFRICANS FOR AFRICA.


3. I believe in economic segregation for Africa.

We need Economic Development in Africa as well as the African Diaspora (the African Nation). We must pursue this Development wherever we may be physically location at any one given point in time. In fact, the word "segregation" worries me. For instance, we need to trade with our neighbors. This includes Iran, located on our Tigris-Euphrates border and all of the Pacific Powers. These include Sri Lanka, the Philipines, Japan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Korea, Singapore, Indonesia, India, China and some smaller islands. We Africans have blood relations to all of these peoples. Therefore, we should be careful about the use of the word "segregation".

Be especially mindful that the places I just mentioned include the majority of humanity. They also have the majority of economic potential. Therefore, we no longer need Mr. Charley. That much is certain. We have never needed him. He needs us. See the slavetrade. We did not ask to come here. We were kidnapped and brought here screaming and yelling, fighting and resisting, against our will. We are ALL Citizens of Africa.


4. I believe in family ownership of land not private and not public.
5. I believe that we should concern ourselves with basics.
6. I believe that Black People need to be humble and unify.
7. I believe that God gave Africa to Black People.

Absolutely. Read Genesis Chapter 2, Verses 8-17. For those too lazy to go look for the Bible Rev. Mr Charley gave them, I have listed those Verses below:

8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, (Soamlia? Abdurrahman) in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and there it divided and became four rivers. ( The River Nile. Abdurrahman) 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 and the gold of that land is good; bdellium (berilium, arong Lake Victory. Abdurrahman) and onyx stone (Malagasy. Abdurrahman) are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which flows around the whole land of Cush. (Ethiopia. Abdurrahman) 14 And the name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. (Irag. Abdurrahman)

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden.

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." (I have a friend who tells me that there is a place in Somalia that is is sort of like the Burmuda Triangle in as much as anyone who enters the never returns. This is known to local Africans only.)

Beautiful! This is Pan-Africanism at its very best.

Of course I am also a fan of the Bible.

Absolutely.

So I believe Jesus when he said "love your enemies", he did not mean PRETEND you do NOT have any enemies.


Absolutely.


If you do not have enemies, how can you love them?


Absolutely.


My belief of the purpose of Black Americans in America is best shown by one of my favorite Black Americans Christians. He was killed by White People.


Absolutely. Do not forget the Unlce Toms who set him up.


Will the Lord suffer this people to go on much longer, taking his holy name in vain? Will he not stop them, preachers and all?

Amen.

O Americans! Americans!! I call God--I call angels--I call men to witness that your destruction is at hand, and will be speedily consummated unless you repent."

Amen

The words of David Walker, the Bostonian son of a free mother and slave father, were as much a threat as they were a jeremiad. His 76-page pamphlet, Walker’s Appeal ... to the Colored Citizens of the World (1829), marked the beginnings of a new abolitionism--and the beginnings of a rift between white and black antislavery movements. Nervous reactions "They want us for their slaves, and think nothing of murdering us," Walker wrote of southern slaveholders. "Therefore, if there is an attempt made by us, kill or be killed . . . and believe this, that it is no more harm for you to kill a man who is trying to kill you than it is for you to take a drink of water when thirsty; in fact the man who will stand still and let another man murder him is worse than an infidel." Walker had never been a slave, but having been born in Wilmington, North Carolina, he knew its horrors. He had once seen a son forced to whip his mother to death. As a devout Baptist with a deep knowledge of the Bible, he believed the Old Testament God who violently freed the Israelites would free "the most degraded, wretched, and abject set of beings that ever lived." The Boston clothier was also fluent in the rhetoric of the American Revolution, quoting Thomas Jefferson at length. For Walker, the Declaration of Independence, which affirmed the right of revolution, justified blacks’ rising against their oppressors. Thus they could act confidently: "Never make an attempt to gain our freedom or natural right, from under our cruel oppressors and murderers, until you see your way clear--when that hour arrives and you move, be not afraid or dismayed; for be you assured that Jesus Christ the king of heaven and of earth who is the God of justice and of armies, will surely go before you. And those enemies who have for hundreds of years stolen our rights and kept us ignorant of him and his divine worship, he will remove."[/QUOTE

Amen. Amen. Amen. AAAAAAAAAA. Amen AAAAAAAAAAAAA,. Amen AAAAAAAAAAAMMEN AMEN. AMEN. Amen.


Get the HOLY GHOST, Chiiiiiiil-lins.....

Better watch that kind of stuff. You might re-convert me back to Christianity. Joking.


[QUOTE]They passed laws forbidding blacks to read, banned the lins.


What? No wonder must of us do not know anything about Africa.

" Southern whites were horrified by "the diabolical Boston Pamphlet."

I hate to see their horror when they see the diabolical fudaa.blogspot.com.

For me Pan-Africanism is two fold. What we are going to do to secure that Africa is never attacked again in the future. And what we are going to do, to improve our humble home and our people in Africa.

ORGANIZE! ORGANIZE! ORGANIZE!........

UNITE! UNITE! UNITE! .......

AFRICANS FOR AFRICA! AFRICANS FOR AFRICA! AFRICANS FOR AFRICA!........

FORWARD! FORWARD! FORWARD!..........

LONG LIVE THE NATION! LONG LIVE THE NATIOn! LONG LIVE THE NATION!

Great reply CrunchyStuff, and nice to meet you. To answer NN again:

There are different ideologies (or different approaches) to PanAfricansim. If for no other reason this is a reflection of the different cultures & economic structures of the various countries in the world where people of African Descent live. Each country, each ethnic group, each nationality (African, African American, African Carribean, African European, etc.), has a different perspective to bring. Many Pan Africanist are socialist, and the debate whether socialism or capitialism is most beneficial to the improvement of black people worldwide is one of the hottest debates among Pan Africanist. These are the types of issues that are better discussed at a Pan African Conference like those of the early 1900s, which is why I would personally like for them to continue.

Debate is part of a dialectic process by which we arrive at growth and development. As this relates to socialism and capitalism, I report that progress has been made. Thanks to the works of Brother Omowale and me, as well as this forum, we have been able to develop the concept of Nkrumahist-Tureist Economics. One feature ofthis theory is that we are now able to move beyond the debate over capitalism and socialism to determine exactly what is best for the African Nation at any one given point in time. There are times when capitalistideas and practices can and must be used to acheive development. At other times, we must utilie socialist methods. Whether we use capitalist methods or socialist methods, we must always be true to Africa. One way to be true to Africa is to allow ourselves to be guided by the principle of as-Sharia which prevents economic exploitation and oppression. Keep in mind that as-Sheria is Islamic Law and that Islam is an African religion.

For a more in-depth analysis of Nkrumahist-Tureist Economics, please visit us at fudaa.blkogspot.com. Scroll down to Nkrumahist-Tureist Economics. Here, we have listed several important institutions that affect the economic life of Africans all over the world. It is our duty as leaders of this generation of Africans to analyze this economic reality and develop new ideas and theories and practices to the Development and Unification of Africa.

[ Don't get me wrong---we have come a long way BUT we still have a long way to go.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. FORWARD!

The Reverend Leon Sullivan is dead. The UN has worked with the ideas of the Reverend Leon Sullivan. I just got that information off the web about him.

I did not know anything about him before PanAfrica mentioned him. Let me explain why.

I am not interested in a Pan-African agency that puts pressure on GM and Ford and Citibank and Kmart to do the right thing. I think that is virtual lunacy. So I have never investigated this group.

That group is a perfect example of Capitalistic Pan-Africanism.

That said. In an effort of unity. I do not think this group harms Africa or Africans because they are more or less working from within the framework that we have been handed. As far as they are concerned the West, meaning America and Europe run the world and control the currency and money and business in Africa. Thus they pressure these groups to treat Africans better.

While all of that is true, and one has to appreciate what they are doing and give them respect for it. What they want is only a step in the right direction. Nobody should attempt to stop them but there must be among us those who dare to dream on an independent Africa. An Africa that sets the price and value of it's own currency. An Africa where GM and FORD and SHELL and CitiBank and Kmart, are community partners, not antagonistic foreign vultures, who take goods out and cash out and put nothing back, as they are now, and as they would continue to be under Rev. Sullivan's vision. Rev. Sullivan would only add a few more goodworks, In otherwords GM might help build some roads.

To acheive these aspirations, WE MUST UNITE. Once we establish a government for the United States of Africa and Arabia, we will be able to do these things and set an export tax on ALL OF THE RESOURECES THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING TAKEN (STOELN, REALLY) FROM AFRICA AND ARABIA to pay for this much needed develiopment. This is a new and sure way to get reparations for centureis of unpaid labor and other economic exploitation and opprerssion.

Of course this is frustrating to me, because I have seen what these companies do when they say they are helping the African communitys that they extract raw materials from. One company in Nigeria claimed that it had really helped the community by putting in water and roads. Unfortunately most do not understand that those were roads to and from the company so that they could extract the goods and that the water is used as a weapon against the workers, if they strike or try to get a union, the water is turned off and the community now dependent on the water is made to suffer, unless they give into the company.

Beautiful! Absolutely!

So community works by these big multi-nationals is a "bandaid" on the big bloody wound but still it is something more than nothing, which Africa was previously getting. Mr. Sullivan's heart is in the right place, he was just naive or maybe he is not naive and knows the deal but decided that was all he could get.

No excuses are required. As a leader, he had the responsibility to know.

There are many Pan-African socialist movements and by far at the grassroots level, Pan-African socialism is the most popular. You would need to look up the writings of Nkrumah, one of the best Black minds that God ever graced the Black race with. Truly one needs to read this man just to be enlightened.

However that said, Nkrumah is dead and most of the Pan-African socialist movements have grown past his thinking, while building on the sure and strong foundation that he laid.

There is a singularity of Pan-Africanism in that it is pro-Black People the world over with an overriding concern for Africa.

Africans for Africa!

That "Pro-Black People" is the central and most functional ideology of Pan-Africanism and it is most important. Do keep in mind we live in a world where some Black People are not Pan-African and they write books and articles about "how blacks are racist", "thank God we were slaves, because I would hate to have been born in Africa", and "Africa is poor because it is not Christian".

This is the ideology of the Rev. Mr. Charley.


When you have Blacks that hateful of their Black Roots, and Africa. Then of course the central ideology of Pan-Africanism as stated above is much more important than it might seem at first.

So yes there is a single Pan-African ideology, mission and purpose.

Nkrumahism-Tureism is the highest expression of Pan-Africanism. Please see fudaa.blogspot.com for a detailed discussion. See the article by Comrade Dr. Kwame Ture titled "Marxism-Leninism and Nkrumahism. Note that we developed Nkrumahism to an even higher level by incorporating Tureism and stting forth an Economic theory to guide us in developing new ideas, thories and practices.

That said, within the bounds of Pan-Africanism, there are many different views of how we shall go about changing Africa for the better. I believe in Unity and would allow for all of them, as stepping stones if nothing else. That is why I extend respect for the Rev. Sullivans and for the Scientific Socialists. However I am of the Communalism strain of Pan-Africanism. I do not believe that Socialism nor Capitalism differ that much in that they both "do business" with the Western Powers and as such, both will be marginalized in the world whether the world is capitalist or socialist. [right now it is capitalist].

Green-dollarism. The correct Economic theory for Africa must be developed from Nkrumaist-Tureist Economics. Note that Nkrunmahist-Tureist Economics repects as-Sharia (Islamic Law) while at the same time doing business with the Pacific Powers of Asia and Latin America. (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42992.)(http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/jan-june06/sudan_05-15.html.)(http://fudaa.blogspot.com/.))) We have wasted 500 years doing business with the Atlantic Powers to our own disservice and dis-advantage. The time has come for new ideas and practices.


Both of those Pan-African ideology's have at their center a cental materialistic basis. As a Christian, I could careless if we sell 1 item or 10,000 items. I see a continent where we all work for everybody else. Meaning we concentrate on digging wells, and laying down road, and building houses or huts and educating our people.

Absolutely. Export taxes can and must be used to finance this type of development. We can always find ways and means to exempt our friends from these taxes, if we want to. But, our enemies will pay reparations, one way or the other.


I am not interested in making sure that Africans are on the internet, or have the latest gadgets from the west. I do not believe that medicines from the west have ever been that helpful to Africans. So I would not sweat the loss of those either. I do not believe that western style education and information systems have made enough of an impact in Africa to justify a continued slave/master relationship with the west.

Absolutely. But, the internet the means by which we finally organize the whole African Nation.

Some people fear disconnecting from the west because they fear losing technology, medicine and education from the west, they believe that Africa needs these things. So they want to continue to do business with the west whether they are socialist of capitalist.

We do not need Mr Charley. We have never needed him. He needs us. That is why we were kidnapped and brought here agaionst our will. History is our best teacher.

Now that we are beginning to regain our autonomy, we will pick and choose who we do business with. (See the above references) Mr. Charley will be the last on our list of favorites.


I trust in God and believe the Bible, when it says that I have given to each race [Nation] what it needs.

See the Book of Genesis, Chapter, Verses 8-17 for some African history and Pan-Africanism:

8. Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.

9. And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10. A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

11. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold.

12. (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [6] and onyx are also there.)

13. The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [7]

14. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15. The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

16. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;


I believe in a Africa that can sustain itself but first must get the basics settled. Food, Water, Housing.

Amen.


All of this is within Africa. Africa does not need anybody to obtain these things. Development under a capitalist or a socialist system proceeds in an uneven and thus far to date not very useful way because those in control of Africa do not seem to understand the very simple proverb: You must crawl before you can walk.

Sorry this was so long. Smile.

Thank you, African.

We prefer poverty in liberty to riches in slavery-His Excellwency Preasident Ahmed Sekou Toure.


ORAGNIZE! ORGANIZE! ORGANIZE!

UNITE! UNITE! UNITE!

FORWARD! FORWRD! FORWARD!

LONG LIVE THE NATION!
LONG LIVE THE NATION!
LONG LIVE THE NATION!

Queen,

Make sure to read about the Black Panther party in Australia.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/runoko.html

That should be more than enough to keep ya reading for a minute.

Please give us more details about how to find the Black Panther Party in
Austrilia. We need to keep a database on all African polical parties as we prepare to orgainze world wide elections to elect agocernment for the United States of Africa abd Arabia.

Revolutionary Greetings

I have been observing the conversation and I must say that I am impressed. I am a member of the All-African People's Revolutionary Party (A-APRP) and we classify our party as a "Pan-Africanist" party. Pan-African based off of the definition determined at the 5th Pan-African Congress convened in London, 1945. Pan-Africanism was defined as "The total liberation and unification of Africa under scientific socialism" and Pan-Africanism being our objective, we are a "Pan-Africanist" party. We are also Socialists. We recognize that of all continents, Africa held onto "Communalism" the longest (and still does). We want to take the values of Communalism that existed prior to industrialization and apply them to modern society. We do not have a "Marxists-Leninist" ideology, we have an "Nkrumahist-Tureist" ideology which means we are guided by the revolutionary ideas, principles and practices of Kwame Nkrumah and Seku Ture. We as African people think it is best to adhere to African ideology. Class distinctions are imparted on every aspect of every persons life, therefore you will find "Bourgieousie" Pan-Africanism and "Revolutionary" Pan-Africanism. I love the example of Bourgieousie Pan-Africanism given earlier. Bourgieoussie Pan-Africanism is what the World Bank and IMF would like to see. But Revolutionary Pan-Africanism is what Africa is struggling for and this does not work in the interest of these Capitalist financial institutions. In fact, it works in the opposite of their interests. But this is the struggle we face...and once our mother Africa begins to achieve mass organization, no force on earth or in the heavens will stop her (in fact, all the forces of the heavens will be behind her *smile*). I hope this was helpful in furthering the understanding of Pan-Africanism.

ready for the REVOLUTION!!!
RA

It is always good to hear from the Party. Please visit us at fudaa.blogspot.com. As can be seen in my most previous post, we are moving forward to hold elections of a government for the United States of Africa and Arabia. All political parties serving the masses of Africans and Arabs all over the world will be asked to stand before the electorate. This especially includes the All-African People's Revolutionary Party.

Pantha,

I do know that Pan-Africanism is not centered around any religion. That is why Africa doesn't have Pan-Africanism and is bumbling and stumbling to get it. In my opinion.

This is why I do not count myself among the "Scientific Socialists", I realize that what I am bringing to the table is fundamentally different from what most socialists are bringing to the table.

Of course Radical African Socialism is very close in ideology, they know what I know. Religion is the only platform on which a successful revolution can be run.

If they do not have God to worship. They will in fact worship the state. That is why they had to burn down temples dedicated to worship of Ho Chi Mein. The reason that Leo Tolstoy [The father of Russian socialism] was a Christian Socialist. The Chinese government is inviting Christian teachers, they have discovered that rather than fight the massive wave of underground Christians in their country [China prints the most bibles in the world], they are going to integrate the verses in the Bible that apply to state ideology.

I got those stat's from a textbook entitled Africa Christianity. And other places.

I have seen bible teachers use those figures to reprimand Americans who dream of growing up one day to bring Christianity to the little heathens in Africa.

In fact Africa has more Christians than America has people.

African, somehow I sense that you are a very young Sister. But, you have wisdom and insight far beyond your chronological age. What you have just said is absolutely correct. To get some backup against the dogmatists, check out Revolution and Religion by His Excellency President Ahmed Sekou Toure. A thranslation and reprinting is available at fudaa.blogspot.com