In this land of opportunity and freedom (almost), it is my belief that we still act like slaves!!!

Definitons:

1. a person held in servitude as the property of another

2. a person who has lost self-control and is dominated by
something or someone.

Now technically we do not fall under the first definition. Although, a convincing case can be made the we are the property of white america. But I will focus on definition number two. There is no doubt that as a race we are the very definiton of slave(#2).

We have lost control of our capacity to think for ourselves. This could have very well happened at the beginning of slavery. And I realized the profound effect that it has had on our people (because i see it every day). But...isn't it time for us to become self aware and enlightened??!!

We as a race have more ablility than any other race on the planet but we don't know it and if we do we don't show it outside of sports and entertainment. Why is that??...because we still think like slaves! We are still walking around talking about the white man keeps us down. Mr Chalie won't treat us fairly. We have to change the laws to be equal. We need affirmative action. We need reparations. For give my english but that is BULLSH*T.
ALL WE NEED TO DO IS CHANGE THE WAY WE THINK AND THE WAY WE ACT......PERIOD.

Don't get me wrong...I know we are still treated like second class citizens, but we are only second class if we believe it(and most of us do.) Any time you are put in a position of weakness by asking, petitioning, or demanding something from someone whom does not want to give it to you...you are second class in their eyes and your own(even if you don't think you feel that way). Basically you are saying to them and to yourself that" I need you to GIVE me 'THIS' in order for me to be complete, validated, and/or equal." 'THIS' ranges from respect, equal treatment, money, apologies, or whatever else we rightfully deserve but they are not willing to give. The fact of the matter is we don't have to ask them for ANYTHING. We are smart enough, capable enough, strong enough, and believe or not..free enough to get all that we deserve and want without their help and inspite of their hinderance. The reason we don't???? WE HAVE NOT LEARNED TO THINK AND DO FOR OURSELVES.

(I will try to keep this brief...forgive the long windedness). There are a few reasons we will not prosper even if white america became enlightened. First we still have no sence of community. This started in slavery when they split families up to undermine the strength that comes from trust and love of family and freinds. We have still not recovered and we have actually taken it a step further. Our families split up and never form family or freinds in their communities ever again. We can not build a foundation for prosperity with love and trust for one another in a community that has the best interest of the group/race rather than the best interest of self. And within this we have people who do become successful and move away and are never heard from again (in their communities). It is like when slaves got free and never went back....but the difference is they COULDN'T go back. Nowadays we CHOOSE not to go back because we feel we are better than that place where we came from. Well here is news to you diserters....you will never be better than the place where you are from in the white mans eyes....only your own....and in that case whom does it benefit--Noone--not even yourself because now you don't have a true home because when its time to choose sides believe me...you will not be on theirs.

Next we are still teaching an outdated method of getting education and financial empowerment. The admonition of go to school get a college education and get a "good job" with a big company came from the panic in and after the depression. Before the depression 75 percent of americans were small and medium sized business owners. After the depression, people whom had lost their businesses told the children the "get a good job" method to prosperity because big companies provided 'security' benefits and good retirement packages. Well that is outdated for a couple of reasons. Number 1..There is no such thing as a secure company job in which you can retire from in 40 years anymore. Very few big companies last 40 years and even if they do they will downsize you as soon as it becomes advantageous to get rid of your $100,000 salary so they can hire two graduates to do your job for $35,000 each. Number 2..College educations are very inadequate when it comes to financial stability. All they teach us is how to get a JOB= (Just. Over. Broke). 93 percent of college graduates retire broke i.e. they have to rely on family, friends, social security, or they have to work. In addition these educations are subjective. They choose who to let in..how much it will cost..(because their bottom line is PROFIT..not education) and what to teach. It is possible, if not probable, to get a $200,000 Harvard education for the cost of fines at the public library. Why don't we do that....because we only do what we are told(slave mentallity)...and they told us we have to have a peice of paper in order to succeed! How to succeed in getting a job..yes
how to succeed in changing your condition of thought, plight of your people, and prospertiy of you and your community..NO.
Number 3. It is only required that we have formal educations in feilds such as medicine, law, engineering and a few others. To own or operate a business, be a journalist, writer, and many others, do not require a degree. We should model our economic and community growth after the Jews. Less the 50 percent of them go to college...yet they are the most powerful economic culture in america. This is because they teach their children the real value of the dollar...how to make it and use it to effect change..., how to value themselves and their community, and how to educate themselves. Jews save 25 percent of every dollar that they make..at the very least. Blacks spend all that they make plus some they don't so they can keep up with the joneses. That is when we become slaves to our jobs and slaves to our posessions. The bosses tell us what time to get up...what time to eat lunch...what time to go home...and what time to go bed...all by saying you have a job with me and i need you to be here from 9 to 5. We don't have the power to quit because we have amassed so many bills from trying to feed our material cravings that quitting would render us homeless and destitute. The Jews do not live that way because they have used libraries to learn how to be empowered financially and it is not through working a job and buying flashing possessions.

I have much more but this is getting long so I will stop here to get others' thoughts.

have you been reading Black Lies, White Lies by Tony Brown?

just wondering

i understand the points you are stressing. however, we don't have unity because many of our own people do not respect themselves. it's like Lauryn Hill says, "so many caught and bought you can't list them how you gonna idolize the missing" covering a portion of your thread very well. we sell our souls to satan's throne. what America is facing is more than simply a war between nations and race relations. it is also about a war between the haves and the have nots. therefore, i support Martin Luther King's vision completely regarding our chaotic social disorder. Focus on who truly shares God's vision for mankind.


peace

poeticd

poeticd--

no I have not been reading Black Lies and white lies but i will now. I agree it is also a war between the haves and the have nots. What I am trying to address is why we continue to be the have nots..and i submit it is not because of the white man nor is it their responsiblity to aide us in our journey.

The problem with focusing on who truly shares God's vision is there will always be disagreement about who does and who doesn't...who is right and who is wrong...who is more Godly than whom. This dissention is part of the reason we are having trouble.
We have to separate the two. This is not to say that we should neglect our spirtuality because it is a vital part to us being complete, only that we separate the goals of salvation from the goals of economic change.

according to the scripture, what is it for a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?


America was developed on the foundation of capitalism by Europeans who converted gold and other precious metals
from other continents into currency with the faces of dead
presidents in the image of white men (visit the Mount Rushmore site and read its history).

After our struggle, i would rather inherit the kingdom
of GOD before walking a mile in the shoes of the originators of
this country-two wrongs don't make a right

whomever shares GOD's vision for mankind believes in equality whether your economic status be rich or poor

unfortunately, it's quite rare for a Black man or a White man to become rich in the world without losing sight of GOD's vision in the process

remember the scripture establishes that "you can't worship both GOD and money" in other words make the money but don't let the money make you or dictate your philosophy and value system all for the sake of it

yes, each and every time opportunity for integration presented itself to blacks relative to residing in white neighborhoods whites would always move up to bigger and better but do we really have to move up to bigger and better to dictate that we are as dignified or as good of a person as people who are white and carry that particular mindset

i don't think so people are about different things

and i agree with you as stated, "This dissention is part of the reason we are having trouble."


peace

pd

poetic--

I agree that we should never worship money. If you refer to my first post, you will see that my emphasis was on community and thinking for ourselves. We should understand the money is not everything. However, it is right next to everything that we hold dear except our spirtuality. Money is not the root to all evil...Ignorance is. We have been so brainwashed that the love money is the root to all evil that we have neglected to educate ourselves about it. All I am saying is become educated...about yourself, about God, about econmics. This education does not have to formal and in many cases shouldn't be formal. Money is simply a tool and unfortunately we have no idea that this tool should be used to help others. To think that money is not important to our lives is to live in denial.

To say we are not capable of dividing our goals between the kingdom of God and the plight of our people while we are here on earth is to say we are one dimensional and I disagree with that.

Dre'

By the way....do you or don't you think we are still slaves?

"To say we are not capable of dividing our goals between the kingdom of God and the plight of our people while we are here on earth is to say we are one dimensional and I disagree with that"

then let's agree to disagree:

To say our current state of being under the leadership of President Bush who is clearly using the political influence of the state of Texas to run an entire country not to mention the entire world through what some would call his "cowboy" mentality is to say history is not in fact repeating itself under terms of regression which means you are living in denial.

sweetheart, some of our own people are going through an identity crisis. they have to recognize who they are and where they come from first. some i feel choose to ignore their past for fear of what they might find which is nothing but the truth regarding the internal weaknesses within our own community and the strategic planning of the European culture to take advantage of our internal weaknesses. there is no way to move forward and tackle the issues in American politics without first learning about the background of European culture and not to mention your own background. the very people Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice is supporting is holding them down, yet they are so blind in their own mind (ignorant as you say) they don't even see themselves

i want you to read the history of Queen Mary (a.k.a Bloody Mary) of the Catholic Church versus the Protestants. the setting of this story takes place in England located in EUROPE. Remember what I said about European culture and how easily we have been influenced under the foundation of this capitalistic system. well, that's not the only thing. we have also been influenced by European culture relative to their religion. Bush is not of anything other than European descent. based on the merits of history and the foundation for which America was established regarding European Law, how is it possible for you to think otherwise?

i wish we weren't as one dimensional as our ancestors but history is clearly repeating itself

sorry :(


peace

pd

:heart:

that's a good question, hopefully, after i have done further research and read many of these books i just ordered.

i'll be able to answer your question.

my brother got me a gift certificate for amazon.com

i didn't enjoy reading before but i'm reading everything i can possibly get my hands on thanks to president Bush at least something positive came out of his presidency :lol:

peace

poeticd

:)

Poetic--

First let me say that i do not agree to disagree with you because we have yet to disagree on anything other than whether or not the white(or european) race is keeping us down.

I agree that history is repeating itself. I agree that Bush is a cowboy president. I agree that many of our people are going through identity crises. I agree that it is better to gain the kingdom of God rather than the riches of the earth.

All I am saying is that we still think like slaves. That was the point of the post. We still don't think for ourselves. We either identify with white america and try to follow their paths to success while abandoning our own people or we don't choose a path of success at all. Included in success is personal growth, spiritual growth, economic growth, good health, and community involvement. All of these things can take place if we change our way of thinking....mainly that the only way to an education is formal. In short....WE NEED TO LEARN AND THINK FOR OURSELVES AS A RACE.

by the way...how did we get on politics? :)

is definitely a touchy subject...

i think Americans irregardless of their ethnic backgrounds or religion needs to get down and pray to GOD for change to set all of us who are facing repression free.

when you say there is a need for us to separate religion from the discussion of economics which is a major BRANCH OF POLITICS(to answer your question on how we got on that discussion) that's where I feel we agree to disagree.

b/c the scriptures establishes that "not any nation that has been built on the backs of slaves shall prosper". you think GOD can't bail the repressed out of our sticky economic situation of hard labor for little to nothing in wages. Man please! :lol:

i'm sure you'll enjoy Tony Brown's book b/c he also believes that "we need to learn and think for ourselves". however, i seek not that of my own understanding but for the lord to lead and guide me. tell me one person on the face of this earth who has all the answers. you couldn't name one every leader who has achieved greatness has sought out guidance from the lord to make decisions in positions of leadership. you can't tell me the lord hasn't done great things for you.

keep praying :)

peace

pd

:heart:

Whew...I've been off the boards a couple of days and you all wrote a novel...lol

Literally, I don't think we are slaves because we are not the property of anyone any longer. Figuratively, I agree that we are enslaved by our own thinking and the limitations we impose on ourselves. Which is worse?

It's much easier to be "owned" and thereby controlled by others as opposed to have to think for yourself, be held accountable and possibly subject yourself to being your own worst enemy because you might be too lazy or less inclined to make the good decisions. Invisible shackles and chains, self-beatings and mental/emotional self-torture is far worse in my opinion. During legal slavery, at least you had an excuse. Post-slavery, we have no one but ourselves to blame for whatever choices we make. Do nothing, get nothing. Do something and at least you stand a chance to get something in return and you can say you tried.

I disagree that we are one dimensional, poe. We don't give ourselves enough credit for the potential that we are all capable of because we witness so much chaos and confusion in our daily lives. Black people have as much potential, skill and ability as anyone else. We have a myriad of opportunities at our fingertips on a daily basis but I think we don't take as much advantage of these opportunities as people of other races might. For some reason many of us are stuck in a time warp and can't seem to move forward by taking risks that could make a major difference in positive ways.

We have to stop being masters of "excuses" and seeking scapegoats for our problems. We can always blame our lack of interest, our lack of doing, our lack of caring on others, but the bottom line is, we still have to stand on our own feet eventually or the world will pass us by.

Politics and spirituality...are they mutually exclusive? Depends on one's political and spiritual views and how one exercises those views. They definitely have to be compatible and the politician must be consistently consistent in how he/she practices what they believe. Governments are run by people and people will always be fickle. My opinion is that in politics and anything else, a person is as s/he thinks.

"I disagree that we are one dimensional, poe. We don't give ourselves enough credit for the potential that we are all capable of because we witness so much chaos and confusion in our daily lives. Black people have as much potential, skill and ability as anyone else. We have a myriad of opportunities at our fingertips on a daily basis but I think we don't take as much advantage of these opportunities as people of other races might. For some reason many of us are stuck in a time warp and can't seem to move forward by taking risks that could make a major difference in positive ways. "

stop right there based on what i have in bold:

"you established we don't give ourselves enough credit for the potential that we are capable...AND...for some reason..we don't take advantage of opportunity like other races might"

understandable but my point is if more people took more time out of their schedule to seek to find GOD and establish a relationship with him in spirit then they would be set free from all state of confusion

again, not one woman or man on the face of this earth has all the answers i have been in real life situations where my own people have turned their back on me b/c of their pure ignorance and surely I wasn't going to run to the white man or as blak says "uncle scam" to resolve a problem within my own community so i turned to my faith and belief in GOD in prayer

and i tell you he saw me through the storm if you ever have the time to read one of my works entitled "Queen Of Hearts" you'll understand me and also a poem entitled "Lies, Lies and More Lies". i can't force or persuade anyone to believe in GOD they will have to go through a personal life experience themselves through the test of time to see that the word of the scripture bears truth and can be utilized as a guide to resolve real day issues

as far as people being stuck in the past i agree with you

however, how can we move forward if history continues to repeat itself over and over again. to know what next step to take, you have to know where you come from NNQ

like i told A007 some people are afraid of what they might find but whatever i find it's not going to change my heart

i just need to know the truth so that i may understand the next step

back to reading :read:

one

poeticd

:heart:

poe...I don't mean to give the impression that I am questioning your spiritual beliefs or your personal testimonies that support your beliefs. That is not my intentnor am I taking issue with that. That's your relationship and I don't question that. If I'm understanding what you wrote, I also hope I didn't leave anyone with the impression that I know all the answers either because I don't. I still, however, respectfully disagree that Black people are one dimensional, even if some don't believe in the same things as you.

At another forum, I believe that I agreed with Dre' that I feel it important for Blacks to know their past AS WELL AS having a vision about where they want to go. So I agree with you there. My point was I think SOME of us are stuck in a time warp and can't let go of the past and are afraid to take risks by standing on their own two feet.

Dre's questions was, "Are We Still Slaves?" I repeat, no, not in the sense that we were once the property and owned by others that oppressed us. However, I think, for some of us and I agree with Dre', do have "slave" mentalities.

Some might think that the only way to be truly free is through a belief in God. Others might disagree and seek freedom through other sources. I'm not judging which method is right or wrong in my comments here. But if the question is about slave mentality in the 21st century, I agree that it exists and for me personally, I'd much rather be "free" and my own person to choose whichever direction I want to take.

You are absolutely correct when you say that the Lord has done great things for me. You are also correct in saying that no one has all the answers. You are incorrect however in the statement that all great leaders have sought guidance from the lord. I think you mistake those leaders who YOU think are great for people who have been great leaders. Nepoleon, Hitler, Elijah Muhammad, Jim Jones, and countless others have been great leaders regardless of the fact that they were out only for themselves. In fact, except in the case of Elijah Muhammad, all of them were evil.

If you believe that God will deliver us from our current blindness, ignorance, econmic distress, and failing faith, tell me why hasn't he yet. I don't dispute that he has the power. I dispute that he want to GIVE it to us. We have to help ourselves and God will increase our efforts tenfold. But as of yet, we haven't even made a ligitimate effort. Prayer is not enough!! If it were we would have been delivered 100 years ago.

peace and luv

Dre'

i am referring to mankind as a whole my mindset is not one dimensional in only referring to my own racial heritage

you are the one stating, "BLACK PEOPLE are not one dimensional"

i look at the picture as a whole because everyone who is BLACK is not going to agree with you and A007 but you and he might find some white, asian, or native american people who do in the place of someone within your own racial group who doesn't agree with you

what about referring to everyone else in America as a whole? :confused:

only looking at things from our own perspective as Black men and women is ONE DIMENSIONAL in itself of itself because our country is a melting pot we all owe the responsibility to help one another. Black people are not the only people in America among the needy. We simply contributed to the foundation of this country for little to nothing and our community wants justice. However, we don't support our own community through reinvesting in our own communities b/c we all have different views. Some feel that they owe a responsibility to rebuild there neighborhoods. Some do not feel that way. Therefore, you need to start looking beyond the color of one's skin to see whether they share the same vision as you.

Also, Kemestry is apart of a Greek Organization and I am aware of its history. NNQ if you look at different Greek Organizations background, then you will notice that their opinions differ. Although their opinions differ, they all have the same general objective in mind and that is the freedom to live their lives independently as they see fit for themselves. My mindset is harmonious. Therefore, I don't know whether I will ever join a Greek organization. Don't get me wrong. Greek unity can be achieved if they are willing to listen, learn, and grow from one another. However, I keep my focus on GOD because I know in his kingdom he has a representation of people from all different categories. I am sure that he judges a man based on the size of his heart.

pd

:heart:

squash the beef

there is no need to be defensive

i'm not one to argue or attempt to disprove
someone else's mindset all for the sake of
arguing

in fact, I need to learn how not to entertain
discussion topics on a whim because I am
looking at some of the things I posted yesterday
and today it doesn't make any kind of sense :lol:

everyone teach one i'm willing to learn and grow
from everyone in Destee's Forum b/c I have a harmonious
nature. however, i have to wonder, if i were to start talking,
would you listen or would you all cover your ears for lack of tolerance to listen to someone else's input or opinion?

just wondering

one

pd

:)

POE--

I thought we were discussing the question of weather or not we think like slaves. I am not defensive sweetie and if I came across that way I sincerely apologize. I am merely stating some facts and some of my opinions based on these facts.

Fact 1. We as a race are still far behind where we should be economically, mentally, emotionally, and spirtulally.

Opinion 1 (based on fact 1) We are in this state becasue we still think like slaves. Meaning we don't think for ourselves.

Fact 2. There has never been and instance where mixing religion and wordly prosperity has had a sustained consistent move towards change....including the NAACP and the civil rights movement.

Opinion 2 (based on fact 2) we should not mix religion with our journey as a people here on earth. The focus will always become our faith...(probably because it is more important to our peace and growth as humans). Nevertheless if our goal is equality, pride, respect, and economic success....we should not include religion.

Fact 3. Educating ourselves on history, economics, self-esteem, emotional stability, and spirtuality is the key to our success in life.

Opinions 3 and 4 (based on fact 3) 3. we should not rely on the formal system to educate us. Formal education only teaches us to be dependent because its main focus is to get a good job and it leaves out crucial parts of education like economics, self-esteem, pride, and spirtuality.

4. Yes it is important to know our history because if we did ---we would know that it is time to CHANGE. If we continue to do what we have always done (which we are) we will continue to get what we have always gotten (which is the short end of the stick)

Poe-- If you based your opinion of me being defensive on the questions that I asked then again I apologize. They were not asked in the spirit of anger. I only asked them to provoke you to think about what you were saying about us only needing God.

I ask again for you to answer the question
If you believe that God will deliver us from our current blindness, ignorance, economic distress, and failing faith, tell me why hasn't he yet.

Now that I read it I understand why you felt the way you did. It sounded like a challenge rather than a question. I ask your forgiveness and humbly submit that I meant no ill will. I was merely being passionate about that which I believe. If you do not wish to answer the question I understand fully.

as always
peace and luv

Dre'

"If you believe that God will deliver us from our current blindness, ignorance, economic distress, and failing faith, tell me why hasn't he yet."

Have you ever heard the phrase? "He may not come when you want him but he's always there on time." Again, as I established to NNQ, only the test of time will make you a believer in the miracles of GOD. I can't do that for you. "Seek and yea shall find, ask and yea shall receive, knock on the door and he shall answer" Kneel down and pray, he will answer all of your questions. Just as it's the Lord's job to change/reveal himself to you for progress. He has to do the same with every other person on Earth. Therefore, you have the gift to see through things. However, how many other people also have that same gift. You should use the gift GOD has given you to see through things and teach and elevate others in our community whether it be writing a book or teaching a class. Don't just vent on Destee. Get out and share your gift others :)

peace

pd

:heart:

Sorry you aren't feeling well Poe. I didn't realize i was venting..lol.
I thought I was presenting an idea. I do share with others when possible. Thanks for you comments. I hope you feel better.

peace and luv

Dre'

*LOL* Okay, now I'm really confused. I have completely lost the thread to this whole discussion. Somehow the point has gotten convoluted. Poe, I'm trying to grasp your point but I'm afraid I can't follow your thread and I don't know that you're understanding mine either. I thought Dre' was directing his question to Blacks ABOUT Blacks and not universal man, but maybe I'm wrong. Dre'...you're deep my brother...that's about all I can say, except that I find it refreshing.

Kudos!

"Poe, I'm trying to grasp your point but I'm afraid I can't follow your thread"

this is A007's thread :lol:

yes, he started the discussion regarding internal issues in our community but i thought that i would take it a step further on the basis that America is a MELTING pot of people from different ethnic group

A007 needs to narrow the scope of his thread to the issue of "slavery in america" and where do we go from there? because we use the term "black", we're not simply talking about people of color born in America but also black immigrants

believe it or not, black immigrants feel that blacks of America are ignorant and are quite hopeless

now that's who A007 needs to debate with on this particular topic it's because of the different views and opinions of people in my community that I pray and seek guidance from GOD to set me free from this state of confusion in our community

peace

pd

:heart:

:)

Poe--

Praying for God to set you free is great.....but what are you doing to help clear up the state of confusion?

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not questioning God's power or your faith. I am only asking what actions are you using to participate in your(and our commuinity's) enlightenment?

There is no malace in my quesion. There is only a desire to provoke thought.

peace and luv
Dre'

well, i prayed about it and i'm going into the field of social work

i have just been called to do this and i am reading books and plan on writing some books during the course of my career. i'm learning and growing as i move along. God is good. :)

peace

pd

:heart:

"seek and yea shall find, ask and yea shall receive, knock and the door shall be answered"

what is GOD calling you to do? the path he has appointed for me may not be your path and the path he appoints for you may not be in my jurisdiction.

A007, I truly have to agree with you on your post Feb, 2001. All of what you said is true. Back in the day Black Men and Women used to have a meeting of the minds and never said a word, we understood each other by jesture, expression, and advoidance of verbal communication. It is ok to strive to get to the top, but in doing so we are forsaking our most valuable asset, our children. We look at each other with hate, animosity, and jealousy. We are a unique group of people and Jehova God does work in mysterious ways, this forum and forums of the like are a form of his work, we are communicating again, we are trying to understand again, the internet world is our door for us to begin to redeem ourselves and begin to understand our feelings, we are miles apart, this here, "the Internet", is our beginning.

Stand in front of a glass that faces other people and you will see them clearly, drop a small amount of silver onto the glass and you will only see your own reflection. all that I can add
to this is that I see Great potential in the AA community, I see growth everyday. and I am
proud to live in this Black body that was given to me from above

Free your mind and your body will follow. Someone told me once that the only people that talk about money are those that don't have it, the wealthy never do. I submit that the same principle can be applied to what we're talking about here.

It's obvious that most of us who have posted comments about this topic are people that see problems in the AA community and want the situation to improve. But just as the poor have opportunities to change their financial condition, so do African Americans if it's important to them.

One wealthy person may only have one thing in common with other wealthy people and that's the measure of their financial worth as compared to the rest of the population. But that might be where their commonality ends because wealth alone doesn't make them exactly like every other wealthy individual.

As AA's do we all identify with each other beyond the color our skin? Individually, what makes us the same as every other AA and what makes us different? Individually, a wealthy person could make a positive difference to many others by teaching people how to make money; sharing their knowledge. A compassionate capitalist. Then there are those that wouldn't share that information (for free) because they might figure, hey, I got mine the hard way, so everyone else should do the same. Some AA's that don't support affirmative action think like that.

A victim's mentality can enslave you. They say that knowledge is power, but I want to add that it's only power if you act on it. Does that make sense?

Queen---

Yes what you've said makes since. And I agree that freeing our minds will free the rest of us. That was my point.

To answer your questions "As AA's do we all identify with each other beyond the color our skin? Individually, what makes us the same as every other AA and what makes us different?"

What makes us the same is the way we have be socialized in America and the fact the many of us still think like slaves. We are not trying to free our minds. We SHOULD identify with other AA's based solely on their skin color. If that were not the case...there would not have been a civil rights movement..a NAACP..or any other of the organizations that try to make our lives in America better. The only difference between us and Jewish-Americans is that they have freed their minds by being ambitious, compassionate, spirtual, and a community. We as Africans-Americans have yet to become this enlightened, and as a result our communities suffer from ignorance, selfishness, and economic inferiorty.

We have to teach our adults how to think for ourselves, how to be spritual, how to control our emotions, and how to handle our finances and they we will teach our youth the same. But the key is to change our way of thinking.....NOW.

I do not think we are slaves but I do think there are obstacles hindering the progress of African Americans. Black schools are usually poorly funded. Bad education leads to the bad, low paying jobs. When President Bush was pushing his economic plan, I was quick to notice the part where he was cutting taxes on dividends. You will have to play the stock market to understand that one. Although, the only people who will benefit from it are those serious players in the market, mainly wealthy whites. The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer. The attack on afirmative action is another thing. Another, young university students have bad credit before the age 21.

That is why I am a big supporter on education. I know there are other things affecting our community but I decided to be an activist on this field, one at a time. Being a computer scientist I am able to write educational programs , since my mom is a teacher (30 yrs) that help also. Also, fixing computers free of charge helps others, too. Furthermore, I try to teach others about the stock market, also. Every little things helps. Things will not get better over night, but we are making small steps in the postive directions.

ND---

I understand where you are coming from and agree to a certain extent. Yes, there are obstacles that stand in our way. No, we do not need Bush or any other political help to change our current situation. Yes, education is making a big difference because we are hinder economically. No, we don't have to rely solely on public schools to make a difference. See, the problem is not the schools or its funding, its our desire to learn and learn those things that will effect change. I submit that we should take advantage of the LIBRARIES that are available to us. We can get a Harvard education for no more money that library fines. But....since that hasn't been ingrained in us or our youth we expect and except that the school system be the deciding factor in our education. Well...the problem with relying on public or even private schools for our education is that they do not teach us the things necessary to control our own destinies. All school teaches us is how to get Jobs. And when a good job is our primary focus we are still allowing others to control our fate. The boss tells us what time to get up, what time to be at work, what time(and how long) we can eat lunch, what time we can go home, and to a certain extent what time to go to bed (because we don't want to be tired in the morning). We have to be proactive by educating ourselves outside of the school system and subsequently instilling in our youth that they can no longer afford to base their system of knowledge on formal education.

The things that are most important to learn we they barely touch on in formal schools.. Economics, financial savvy, entreperneurship, community involvement, and self love!

Nfant, Dre'...you get a big thumbs up from me on what you both wrote. Dre', your main point is powerful.

It's not so much about what we are taught as it should be about what we learn. A "formal" education has it's value, but it's that "informal" education that will not only help you to survive but to excel.

AA's are an intelligent group of people and we demonstrate everyday that we have great capability of learning things. We also have excellent retention spans when it comes to information we want to retain.

Aaaahhhh...the library...an extremely valuable resource that is hardly used in the AA community. I took a graduate course not too long ago that had as a component, a lesson on how to USE the library. Can you believe that? :eek:

What excuses do we have in this day and age for NOT seeking or obtaining knowledge on just about anything conceivable to man? If man invented it, there's information out there on it. Information about economics and politics is not a white privilege. Economics and politics don't discriminate--it's people who learn how to use it for their personal gain that do.

I realize that many AA's of the baby-boomer generation might be first-time college graduates in their families. So our parents may not have had the resources to teach us about free enterprise ventures, stocks/bonds, pension plans, etc. But what's our excuse today? My parents always stressed that land is a good investment. How many of us own land or a piece of property?

Ignorance is not a privilege nor is it a viable excuse. Ignorance does not negate the fact that we now have access to so much information but what are we focusing our attention on? How many AA rap artists or professional athletes are smart enough to know how to not only make the money, but keep it?

AA communities tend not to come together to pool their financial resources like Asian and Latino (especially Cuban) communities do (and have done for years) to spread the wealth and help each other in those communities. Many Haitians and Jamaicans that do make it into the US and are not deported have dreams of owning their own businesses here and many do open them up. How? Their communities help. Look at the Koreans. What about the AA women...has anyone had their nails done lately? Who did them? Who sells the hair that's used to weave into an AA woman's head? How many times a month do you make appointments to get your nails done and (in Missy Elliott's words) "get your hair did?"

You can't tell me that AA's don't value money as much as people of other races in this country. Combined we represent a HUGE portion of the GNP as consumers. We make everyone rich and richer except, for the most part, ourselves. Where does OUR money come from and how do WE spend it? Do we really understand the power that money is given in this world or do we only care about the consummable products that money can buy?

Racism systematically verifies itself, when the slave can only break free by imitating his master; thus, contradicting his own reality.

H. RAP BROWN

Queen--

Thank you and I am glad that you see where I coming from.

Many people ask where do we start. I submit that we start with ourselves and then share it with our youth and our community. One of the major problems in the AA community is that for some reason we want to keep the information all to ourselves. I believe that is for two reasons.
1. We have decided that its every person for themselves. The "me and my family against the world" creed is causing us to divide as a community resulting in our own downfall. Do we not understand that by sharing information that helped us can only make us stronger?
2. We don't feel like there is enough to go around. We feel like if we help Joe get his it will take away from what I have and hinder me in getting anymore.
That is simply not true. If I build a nice house and I help everyone around me build nice houses the property value will go up...not down. It is the same in almost every situation in life. If we help others around us..it will serve to improve the community...which will, in turn, make us richer..(in spirt, knowledge, health, and wealth). There is enough to go around. So if we stop being jealous, envious, and greedy and begin to share your information and your gifts with the community and then we will ultimately help ourselves by helping others.

I agree that some youth donot have the desire to learn. Too many think the only way they can make is rapping or playing ball. Although, the only successful African American you see on television is rappers and athletes. These youths have no guidance. I blame television for some of this. Children see too much at a younger age.

ND--

I understand where you are coming from and yes, some the blame should be on the media; but Most of it should be placed at home and in the community.

If we taught our youth how to think for themselves and that their minds are their best bet for riches (if money is what they desire), then their focus would be on acquiring knowledge -not a nice jump shot or nice rap flow.

I have just finished reading 'Souls of Black Folk' by W.E.B.DuBois, and one hundred years ago when he wrote this book the main problem with us was racism, today the main problem is racism. WRONG !!!. The main problem is us. We refuse to vote, refuse to be anything other than a consuming community, are always blaming our issues and problems on 'the white man', refuse to go to school, refuse to build our own media, newspappers, schools, etc. Where were we when Robert Johnson sold BET. Oh, we couldn't afford to buy BET ? No, we could afford it, we didn't come together to buy it. Where were we when Morris Brown College lost its academic standing because of financial troubles ? Why was Morris Brown in financial trouble in the first place ? Where are we when vouchers are handed out to drain the brightest from our neighborhood schools and leave OUR NEIGHBORHOOD schools to become holding pens for the privatized JAIL system ?.
Where are we when its time to vote and whites run in our community and win because we can't seem to get to the polls ?
Where are we ?????? I live in a neighborhood where a white college went out of business. My neighborhood is 89% african-american and hispanic. Not a poor neighborhood, just lazy. Did we
buy the college and open an Historically Black College ? NO, we let the place close down and be boarded up!. Who's the problem ? WE are, and until we become economically, politically, and educationally responsible for our situation, I guess we can resign ourselves to a few more hundred years of blaming the 'white man', if we're not extinct. I love my people I just want to see us be responsible for ourselves. Peace and Love.:( :( :(