Is money the root of all evil? Can a person actually "love" money more than they love another human being?

Can money change a person or just their lifestyle?

How and what are Black people in America, especially our youth, learning about the value of money?

Would you rather have your money invested or the cash?

Even if you had the money to give, would you expect your child to work to earn their money or would you rather give them money to spend without expecting them to do anything to earn it?

Do you think it's important to purchase from a Black-owned business?

Are Black men intimidated if their girlfriend/wife earns a higher salary than his?

Do Black women only want a man that has a car, house and lots of money?

Could our HBCU's benefit from our financial assistance?

These questions were inspired by a conversation in another forum and I'm curious about what people think. Black people spend a lot of money as consumers in this country and a great majority of it leaves our communities within minutes of us receiving it in the form of salaries or whatever other sources of income we receive.

Companies are targeting our communities to get us to spend this valuable resource (money) as fast as we get our hands on it and these products aren't cheap! Just looking at all the "labels" our youth wear, how much would you estimate is the total value of the outfit they are wearing? If we held on to our money longer and spent more of it within our communities, some of the problems we experience in our communities may be nonexistent.

What do you think?

Queen much respect.

I hate to start out on a controversial not but..oh well. NO money is not the root of all evil...ARE YALL READY FOR THIS?? LOVE is. Not just the love of money. The love of power, the love of a person, the love of sex, the love of things, the love of approval and anything else a person can love. We have to learn to control our emotions and quit letting them control us.

Money can change both a person and their lifestyle. Of course the lifestyle comes first. But eventually, people whom are not well grounded, and balanced begin to think that money entitles them to priveledges that others are not entitiled to. What they dont understand is that the money if the money is the only thing that sets them apart then they were nothing without it..so God help them if they should lose it.

Unfortuneatly most of our youth our learning about money from what they see on the Idiot Box(T.V.) Videos, movies, exposes on houses and cars. Al they see is bling bling. They and many of us adults have learned the VALUE of money. Money is simply tool to make life comfortable. I should be used to make life comfortable for all whom one cares about. Using it to excess diminishes its value greatly. We should learn to save, invest, and HELP. Not simply consume so others can see what we have and THINK we are doing well.

I expect my son to work for money he gets. He will have to work for it in the world he may as well learn to do it at an early age. I also teach him to save half of every dollar he gets. Its important to know what to do with money as much as how to earn it.

Of course its important to buy from black-owned business but business owners need to run a good business. They should expect to be patronized if they are going to provide inferior products or service.

I would not be intimidated by a woman making more than me. Then she could take me shopping:D

I dont want to get too deep into what women are looking for in men, but as it stands now...it is the FIRST thing women expect from a man that they would like to get serious about. I mean how many of you women would talk to a brotha who was working at McDonals??

We need to educate ourselves better about money and its real value...outside of the formal education system. Then we can educate our children.

007 -

"...I dont want to get too deep into what women are looking for in men, but as it stands now...it is the FIRST thing women expect from a man that they would like to get serious about. I mean how many of you women would talk to a brotha who was working at McDonals??..."

I am a woman who, if I do make more money, would want to know that the man is able to take care of me and our responsibilities if he had to rely soley on his money. An accident or health problems may affect the amount of money I'm bringing in or cut it off completely for a while or permanently. Of course, I am talking about a marriage. So for me, I wouldn't look down on a man working at McDonald's. But I'll think 'what if I need him to step it up'. I wouldn't want that on me. I don't want to be calling around trying to borrow money. Or, trying to keep working as much as I can to help out knowing I need to have myself at home with this bad back.

If a brotha is working at McDonalds and sees someone who he wants to be his queen. Then he might want to ask himself that question. Can I take care of her? When the children come, will I be able to take care of her AND the children? If he can do it at McDonalds, then okay then.

I know that you maybe using McDonald's as an eample, but it could be any job where a man is making less money. The type of job, the security of it, the benefits and type will be important to me as well as mine should be for him. We are trying to build a relationship with what we both bring to the table and hopefully we'll jump the broom after all is said & done. If so, it will give me a peace of mine and make me feel secure with him.

Just talking with no intention of him being my king & I his queen, just platonic friends then it wouldn't matter. We're friends and his money is none of my business.

Anyway, that's how I look at it for myself.

I'll be back with thoughts on the other issues.

You had me crackin' up with that opening statement man!! *lol* I have a quick minute then I have to run, but I will be back later to fill in the details of what I'm about to write. I just had to comment first on this...

You wrote:

"I hate to start out on a controversial not but..oh well. NO money is not the root of all evil...ARE YALL READY FOR THIS?? LOVE is. Not just the love of money. The love of power, the love of a person, the love of sex, the love of things, the love of approval and anything else a person can love. We have to learn to control our emotions and quit letting them control us."

Dre...you have me pulling my hair out on that one, man!!! *lol* This is how I would word that....The love of THINGS is the root of all evil, not the love of people. The LUST for or the obsession with people, maybe, but not the love!

I think our primary purpose in this world is to love ourselves and each other. Love of people is a many splendored thing! Love makes the world go round! Where is the love? Isn't that what we've been saying here recently? Sure it has. It's only when we get it twisted and start to love THINGS that we have lost sight of what it is we're supposed to be loving and begin the fast slide down that long slippery slope.

lol@hate to start out on a controversial note, but oh well. And you know what else I think, there are times when I don't think there's anything wrong with letting our emotions move us because sometimes they can get us to do things that are courageous and loving. Discipline is good, true! But part of the reason we were given these emotions were to let them guide us along a path of truth and openness.

Whatcha think? :D

Anana so should we feel the same way when we are looking for our queens? "if I do make more money, I would want to know that the 'wo'man is able to take care of me and our responsibilities if (s)he had to rely soley on his/her money. An accident or health problems may affect the amount of money I'm bringing in or cut it off completely for a while or permanently."

I made a few changes to your statement to project as if we as men thought the same way how obsurd it would sound. Some women want it both ways. (i don't know if you do or not Anana) But, they want to be equal..the relationship to be a 50/50 partnership..but I know very few women who are willing to support a man when he is unemployed or just has a job that doesn't offer very much. Yet, it is almost a given that it is our job as men to 'take care' of a woman if she does not work or has a low paying/part time job. Now for me it is fine for women and society to think that way. However, there will be no 50/50 partnership is the burden of keeping the family supported falls squarely on my shoulders. 51/49 maybe. The problem is that many women are not willing to concede that 2 percent(or higher) shift in control but want to be 'taken care of' non-the-less.

I propose that many women that are screaming there aren't any good men(or very few) overlook less afluent men because they themselves aren't willing to take on the responsiblity of 'taking care of man/family' If it is a womans choice to systematically disqualify half of the elegible 'good' men based on their income, their shouldn't be complaints of the number (or lack thereof) of good men their are.

Queen--

I am glad I could make you smile:D . I ask only this is it obsession or lust that makes a person shoot someone because they slept with their spouse?? I agree with letting our emotions 'guide' us. But there is a difference between being guided by emotions and being driven by them like many of us are.

peace Dre'

007 -

I think that when choosing a mate, a man should also consider the fortitude of the woman, and would want to know that she will not fall apart or run away (as some do), and is capable to step in if something happens to him. Particularly, if they have children or plan to.

Personally, I would definitely step up and take the reins if he needs me to. He may become ill and can't work, or he may want to branch out and start his own business. If he comes to me and say 'I want to this'. We talk about it, and if it seems good for us and then I have to support him. I can't fight him on it and say stuff like 'I'm not gonna have everything on me because you're following some pipe dream'. I don't want him to be somewhere he doesn't want to be. I want the best of him. I want him whistling when he leaves the house, not dragging. I may say, 'give us some time to take care of a few bills and then let's do it'. But I will never want him to worry about 'I can't do nothing, because then what will she do'. Or worry about, 'what will she do if something happens to me'. I don't want him lying flat on his back with pain and have to worry about how the children & I are getting along on top of that. That I couldn't stand.

When two people come together, they bring what they have to the table and both should feel secure & safe with each other. If it's a situation where he has 'it like that' where everything would be taken care of if something happens to him. I'm sure he would like to know that she will still be there in spite of.

Just as I would not want to worry about 'how are we & the children gonna get by now', or 'is he gonna still be here for us', I wouldn't want him to have that worry either.

I am in a positon right now where I can step up & step in without skipping a beat, and I like knowing that I can. If I came to him initially with no job, a PT job, a temp job, or one with no benefits, then I would not feel secure. Personally I wouldn't. I won't let him get away because I don't have a job or a decent one (so to speak) and feel unworthy of him. If he wants me, I'm gonna hang on to him, but I will start thinking that 'now that I'm with this man and part of a couple. I have to start thinking differently'. It may take getting more education, sharpen or getting new skills, something to allow me to help ensure the safety & security of our family. I will not 'kick back' and think that now I have it made, now I have a man and he will take care of me forever, because life can throw you a quick slap without you seeing it coming. So you have to be equipped as best as possible.

I know women who don't work, work when they want, work at temp jobs and depend on the man to do everything, because they can. The man allows this. I know of a couple where the man is just strained out because of it. But sometimes men may allow that because they feel that it is their job to take care of everything. I don't know.

But 007, I think it can put a burden on the relationship when one person feels as if the whole load is on them & they have no breathing room to do anything but work. Unless there is money to prevent any strain, even if something happens to either. I don't personally know anyone like that.

Anyway...I want my honey to have breathing room.

When considering a queen, a man should think about that and it's nothing wrong with it. And not consider it 'cute' that 'she depends on me for everything'. Unless he has the 'bank' to not have to think about it.

I do believe that some women do not want to take on that responsibility. They like being taken care of. And I suppose there are some men who like to be the one taking care of her.

But I know several who have and who are taking on that responsibilty. Especially women whose husbands started their own businesses. That's also a part of taking care of each other.

Just as we sometimes allow certain behaviors from men, men sometimes allow certain behaviors from women.

But it all depends on the couple and what they can endure. How much they can get by on.

But getting back to the initial statement, regardless of how much money I make, I would like to know that if something happens to me, that my honey can take care of me & the children without it. I also want him to know that I and the children will be alright if something happens to him and I had to get by without his.

To me it is not absurd.

Dre, your question:

"I ask only this is it obsession or lust that makes a person shoot someone because they slept with their spouse??"

My answer:

Neither, it's a "crime of passion" caused by extreme jealousy, anger and stupidity! Like the wife in Houston, TX who ran over her husband several times and killed him as he exited a hotel after being with another woman. The jury called that premeditated murder. They didn't say, "Oh, she ran over him because she loved him." What drove her (pardon the pun) to do it? From my point of view, pisstivity at it's highest level and possibly temporary insanity. Love didn't make her do it. She obviously was upset and probably felt betrayed. Maybe she thought she would lose out on a lifestyle to which she had been accustomed because of another woman so she thought killing him while still married to him would insure that her family would inherit his money. I don't think that genuine love would cause a person to do harm to the one they loved, no matter what they did. In self-defense, yes. I know people say that and use it as an excuse for doing strange things, but is that real love? I hardly think so. Something else is going on and some other emotions are at play in these types of situations.

Examples:

I killed him/her because I loved her!
He beats me, but he really loves me.
I tried to kill myself because she left me and I still loved her.
My pimp really loves me, so I sell my body for money to make him happy.

I don't think that LOVE is the root of all evil because what I'm attempting to describe doesn't represent love to me.

So love isn't the problem, mental/emotional illness is.

On the subject of the 50/50 scenario. I guess I should always qualify my comments as those of an older woman. That might make a difference in the perspectives that I share versus those of women of younger years. I don't know if that's true, but it might be possible.

In my opinion, as far as relationships go and who does what and what share, I say toss the numbers out the window because they don't mean a thing. There's no place in a real love relationship for that kind of thinking. Role assignments are what the couple decide they should be. Solid relationships should glide through the good times and be strong enough to be sustained during the not so good times. Standing together when one of you is down, the other should provide the support the family needs. There's a difference between perpetual laziness, no count shiftless behavior and a temporary set-back. With everyone working together to keep the family unit strong and healthy, the relationship will survive the hard times. So, what I'm saying is, I would not hesitate to support my husband during times when he is unable to. He will still be my king because an 8-5 job doesn't make him one. I will do all that I can to uplift him and be his biggest cheerleader. When he greets me after I get home from work with dinner on the table, the laundry done and a tub of warm water for me to soak my tired body in, won't make him less of a man in my eyes. When he needs to talk about his fears and frustrations, I will be a quiet listener and not pass judgment. When I see him trying and being rejected, I will not harass him or turn my back on him. A marriage should mean more than just lovers, it should also be about friendship. Some people may not agree with me on what I'm about to say, BUT...people who don't make good friends will not make good spouses.

Anana--

Your statement--"I think that when choosing a mate, a man should also consider the fortitude of the woman, and would want to know that she will not fall apart or run away (as some do), and is capable to step in if something happens to him. Particularly, if they have children or plan to. " may be what a man SHOULD consider when choosing a mate, (so the playing feilds will be level) but it is not what we consider. We consider looks (sad but true), intelligence (wheather we are on the same level) personality, demeanor, since of humor, understanding, trustworthiness, and sex(sad but true). In none of those qualities do you find money, stability, fortitude, occupation(or lack thereof) or ability to provide for a family. Contrary to popular belief we use our hearts to decide on a partner much more than women. Women think about things like ' money, stability, fortitude, occupation(or lack thereof) and ability to provide for a family' those are requirements from the head and not the heart. All I was saying was that if some women were to give the man at McDonalds a chance he may melt your HEART and LEARN to provide in order that he may ease your MIND and earn your respect and trust in the process. The fact that a man would subject himself to ridicule for working at McDonalds says volumes about his work ethic and his charactor. But many women would not know that because he gets no chance simply because of the perception that he will not be able to provide.

Queen--

First let me say that we know you are the exception and not the rule so don't be trying to make the other women look better because you have seen the light....lol

I thank you for your insight. As you will see, I am not one to take a stance or make a statement and stick to it throudh hell or high water. I put my ideas out there to subject them to scrutiny so I may become more informed and more enlightened. You have made me re-think my position on the root to evil. Thank you. I somewhat agree with your mental/emotional illness theory, but i would like to simplify it if I may.

Now..I think the root to all evil is IGNORANCE. We don't know what real love is. We don't know how to control our emotions. We don't know how to value money without greed. We don't know how to deal with our pains so that we may be complete. And worse of all ...We don't know that we don't know and the definition of that is IGNORANCE.

What cha think??;)

IMHO, the root of all evil is choice fueled by greed. Just being IGNORANCE is not evil. I'm ignorant of a lot of things, but I'm not evil or do evil things. I believe that where ever you find evil doings, you will find greed somewhere in the mix.

*LOL* I have to be quick right now because I have to leave in a few but you all have said a mouthful...so much to absorb and digest...all good perspectives too, I might add.

Let me start with Dre'...about ignorance, I have to agree with Zero's interpretation on the point of ignorance. Ignorance stems from a lack of knowledge and information. Ignorant people will often say, "I didn't know". When you become an adult, society has certain expectations that you SHOULD know certain things. On the other hand STUPID, is a whole other story. Stupidity is when you know what you're doing is not socially acceptable but you do it anyway. The combination of ignorance and stupidity is far more dangerous than either of them separately, IMHO. When you have an ignorant person who does stupid things, is someone that can do a lot of damage to themselve, people around them and to society. So an ignorant person isn't inherently evil. An ignorant person can be evil, however, but they're not evil because they're ignorant. And although money can be the root to some people doing evil things, I don't think that it has the corner of the market on evil.

Gotta run, will be bbl! :)

007 -

"We consider looks (sad but true), intelligence (wheather we are on the same level) personality, demeanor, since of humor, understanding, trustworthiness, and sex(sad but true). In none of those qualities do you find money, stability, fortitude, occupation(or lack thereof) or ability to provide for a family. Contrary to popular belief we use our hearts to decide on a partner much more than women. Women think about things like ' money, stability, fortitude, occupation(or lack thereof) and ability to provide for a family' those are requirements from the head and not the heart. All I was saying was that if some women were to give the man at McDonalds a chance he may melt your HEART and LEARN to provide in order that he may ease your MIND and earn your respect and trust in the process. The fact that a man would subject himself to ridicule for working at McDonalds says volumes about his work ethic and his charactor. But many women would not know that because he gets no chance simply because of the perception that he will not be able to provide."

007 -

If that's the criteria that men use to select a woman in which to merge your life and possibly the mother of your children, then it is your choices and decisions and take responsibiltity for it.

I wouldn't say that women think more with the head and less with the heart than men. Those 'requirements' mean the ability to take care of those you love. They are not the 'mushy' and romantic type things we like to talk about like a nice body, nice smile, making me laugh, etc, but they are also expressions of love as well.

And so - All I'm saying is that if a man is working at Mcs and is ready to start a family, he should consider that himself and ask 'can I take care of a family working here?'. He should already know that and not have to worry about a woman taking a chance on him, giving him a chance to melt her heart, and learning to provide for her and easing her mind. He should work that out with himself.

Before one even think about merging your life with another, you should already know how you want to live and as you meet people you will know what type person best fit into your life's scheme.

I'm saying that working at McDonalds should not be the issue. The issue should be if he could step up & step in when/if need be. His work ethic, and his working at all is a good thing. But the stigma attached to working at McDonalds when better/greater opportunities elsewhere may raise questions for some women. I don't know.

I know that regardless of how much money I make, I want to be assured that I and my children will be taken care of, if my money was taken out of the equation. Whether he's at Mcs, the car wash, a mechanic, a police officer, it doesn't matter. What matters is when it's time to step up-all I want to hear is footsteps 'stepping up' and not stuttering about 'what are we gonna do now'. And my honey should feel the same. He shouldn't have to hear 'oh what am I gonna do now'. To ensure that to each other, is an expression of love.

Anana---

I understand where you are coming from. I hope that I didn't convey that I didn't. You are coming from the same place that most women are coming from in regards to someone who is able to provide. I understand....I don't agree...But, I understand.

I am not saying that women should not think that way. All I am saying is DON'T COMPLAIN about not being able to find a "good man" if you are systematically eliminating half of the prospects because you feel like you need a man to be able 'step up'. You all say that it is easier for a man to find a good women. The reason is because we aren't disregaurding women because of their financial status/potential. We simply have more to choose from because we look at all and yall only look at the "good providers." Not right or wrong just fact. (in most cases)

Dre' and Anana...Can we agree that there are some basic differences in the way men and women think when it comes to selecting mates? Basically I don't have problems with anything either of you says.

I think that some of the differences we experience in our approach to mate selecting is biologically driven by hormones and the levels we each have: testosterone and estrogen, as well as how we are socialized. I've already mentioned the social aspects in an earlier post.

On a basic level, I think that when men and women look for a mate, there are certain things they look for and reasons why. You see this explained often in mammals featured on the Discovery Channel (don't laugh, I'm serious *lol*). I don't think we are that far removed from the same concept although grant you we're higher on the intellectual chain.

Females look for a mate that is an alpha-male, a smart and powerful leader. The runt and the weaklings never get any play. The alpha-male controls the "family" and brings order when their is chaos, establishes the rules the "family" will follow and provides them with protection.

Males look for a mate that he can breed with and who will give him babies that are strong and healthy. He wants a female that is intelligent and will be a good nurturer of his babies to insure that his gene pool continues in the future by providing strong leaders.

Instinctively I think humans are doing essentially the same thing, but in man's world during modern times, our natural instincts have become dull and life isn't that simple. When women say what they look for in a partner, as Anana described, I think they're saying they are looking for that alpha-male and who knows, maybe he can be working in a McDonald's, although I'd seriously have to question why.

Dre' the way you describe what most men look for in a female partner sounds biologically sound too. The problem is that today, humans have the ability to disguise themselves and appear to be something they aren't so it's not always easy to identify their true qualities in the beginning.

Women might see a handsome "manly" looking man and get all excited. He might be well-dressed, smell good, have that vibrant personality and has a job. Men might see a very attractive woman who can carry on a conversation without splitting verbs, who laughs at his jokes and become instantly "hooked". A chicken-head, she is not (at least on the surface.) But all of these tangible things do not an alpha-male or queen make.

So bringing things up several notches to the two-legged, upright walking, equipped with thumbs and functioning with a reasonably large brain species, it's obvious we have to do a little more work when it comes to selecting the "right" mate. There is an old saying, there's someone for everyone.

The Discovery Channel is quite interesting, I find. *lol*

Why would you question why he is working at McDonalds??

Let me tell you why I used McDonalds as an example. I have a friend who works at Mickey D's . He has been there about 10 years. He makes over $40,000 per year. (he's a manager) But when he introduces himself and tells a woman where he works that seems to be the end of their interest. He purposely leaves out the part that he is a manager and makes a good living at it. His perspective is...if that is all they are concerned with, he doesn't want them anyway. So back to my original point-- There is no problem with having 'a man who can provide' as a priority when looking for a man, but don't complain when you can't find one because you have eliminated half of the eligable men with this requirement that they be someone that can provide this false sense of security that is rooted in what women 'perceive' to be strength.

Dre', you're right. I assumed Anana meant someone flipping burgers for a career. If someone is happy doing that, that's okay. But being honest, being the type of woman I am who always likes to push the envelope, I would want my man and would encourage him to do more with his life. Not because of the money, but because of the broader possibilities and opportunities. I would want my man to be the best that he can be by growing and changing, building, seeking, moving forward. If he wasn't that type of person, yes, I would have problems with that. But it's not about the money but about the potential and all the wonderful possibilities.

There's more I could add to this but I don't have time right now. Let's continue this conversation.

Ok i'm in the same boat as Queen...I gotta go. But I will leave a challenge.

Name one evil act or set of actions that was not rooted in ignorance.

In every evil act that you will be able to think of think of you will be able to trace its orgin back to someone not knowing something (including how to control their emotions) or thinking they know something that they dont.

See if someone can come up with a convincing arguement to the contrary...lol

peace Dre'

*thinking*...lol

A lot of people are too caught up in social status, who you with, what you wearing/have and lack morial and self respect and/or self confidence. Money or greed is a root to a lot of this evil. When you are broke or have a little of money not many people wanted to know you. As soon as you come into some money people are looking for a handout or want to be your friend. You can not deny that if a man drives around in a Lincoln Navigator that he will attract more women then the man driving the
PT Crusier.

If I was financially stable and had some kids I would not spoil my kids rotten. They would need to learn the value of a dollar. Once they come through money problems they will know how to handle it. I rather have my money invested than have the cash, so I can have my money grow. I also think it is important to support black-owned businesses, too many other people get rich off of us. Furthermore, HCBU's would benefit from financial assistance. All the time from some pretigious white university,an alumni is donating millions back to his or her school. Many HCBU's are poorly funded. A bad education will lead to a bad job.

Nfant, you said a lot and I'm with you all points!!! Good post and I'd like to make a few comments.

What you described in your first paragraph, I agree with. It's sad but true that most of us measure the value of another person by the contents of their wallet/bank account. Sadly, whenever they see the external trappings and they get all hyped, do they ever ask: IS IT PAID FOR??? Cause if it ain't, I don't care what it is...if there's a mortgage, car note, credit card balance..someone else OWNS it and they're just letting you live in it, drive it, wear it...either until you pay them in full or they have to repo it.

Your second paragraph...admirable. When I read it I wondered how important it would be for both a husband and wife to believe in and do the same things when it came to money management in the family.

As a side note, I'm laughing at your comparison using the PT Cruiser as an example. Heck, I thought that was a pretty nice car. *lol* My standards must be fairly low, huh? *lol*

No, your standards are not low. I like the PT Cruiser myself and may try to get one in the coming year. Although, if you had a choice between a free $10 bill or a $100 bill, what would you prefer? $10 is nice but I would take the $100.

Loan me a $100 and I'll pay you back on pay day!! *lol*

Just kiddin'....

:toast: