Welcome to Destee.com QbanMami!! Thank you for your input on this important topic. I will gladly visit your website, and I hope you become an active participant on this one.

THANK YOU PANAFRICA. IT IS IMPORATANT TO REPRESENT MY "BLACKNESS" AT ALL TIMES- POSITIVELY OF COURSE!!

Alaafia QubanMami,

Que vola, manita?! Donde tu ta?!.....Chango ta veni :flame: Me encanta Yemaya. Esa si que me ayudo bastante. To la hija de Yemaya son tremendas fieras pero que es un mar sino hay turbulencia?

Hiali
Oni Chango
Awofakan ni Osa'di

nice changes on this board, Destee... streamlined look... I like... :tongue:

nice changes on this board, Destee... streamlined look... I like... :tongue:

Hello Dadachango ... :wave: ... so nice to see you back in the house! Glad you like the way things look ... guess this means you'll be here more, sharing all of that wisdom?! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

I've always like this community. There's some intelligent folks up in here. I've been wrapped up in the Matrix for awhile, so it has been hard to keep up. Right now, I'm trying to finish my short film. I am re-doing the music to it before sending it out to film festivals. Hey, how do you post pictures within the posts or is it not possible?

Hope you are well.
Hiáli

Hello Dadachango ... :wave: ... so nice to see you back in the house! Glad you like the way things look ... guess this means you'll be here more, sharing all of that wisdom?! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

Que bola, asere? :) Nice to see Mijo aqui!! TU sabes que aunque hay turbulencia en el mar hay tranquilidad tambien!! Como eta tu? Me voy pa Nueva York El 14 de julio pa' irme a la parada dominicana en Grand Course! Tu vives pa'tra verdad? Me encanata Chango tambien PERO no puedo salir con el!! hahaha. Somos como aceite y agua- no mezclamos!

I am born form Yemaya & Oshun (long story)... and Shango was born with one of Yemaya's letters... so you wouldn't get drama from me... lol Relax though... I wasn't hitting on you sister, just trying to make chit chat... don't stir up your waters now...lol

Where are you know... in FL? I was in Cuba last July... I loved it so much I was thinking about staying. I love it when folks can walk around with self-respect and intelligence. It's also nice that the religion is recognized there as the state religion... so, leaving un gallo by the tree is not looked upon as some craziness.

Be blessed... odabo... Hiali

Actually. I'm in Michigan but I'll be moving back to NY next year. The last time I went to Cuba I was 20; I'm 30, now but we are taking my daughter, Yemaya, there in November so she can receive her elekes. I'm so excited for her. The first time I went to start my religious work, my mami took me to the big statue of Ochun In Havana and I could not stop crying. Oh by the way, I didn't think you were hitting on me! :0 You can go to migente.com if you want to check me out! My user name is Hija_de_yemaya. You can see my baby girl, too! Are you cuban, too?

Que bola, asere? :) Nice to see Mijo aqui!! TU sabes que aunque hay turbulencia en el mar hay tranquilidad tambien!! Como eta tu? Me voy pa Nueva York El 14 de julio pa' irme a la parada dominicana en Grand Course! Tu vives pa'tra verdad? Me encanata Chango tambien PERO no puedo salir con el!! hahaha. Somos como aceite y agua- no mezclamos!


No disrespect to you sistah, But do you think you could post your comments in English as well as spanish?

No disrespect to you sistah, But do you think you could post your comments in English as well as spanish?
I'm sorry, Sekhemu. I wasn't trying to exclude anyone but the post I was responding to was in Spanish so I just answered accordingly. NO problem! :spinn:

I'm sorry, Sekhemu. I wasn't trying to exclude anyone but the post I was responding to was in Spanish so I just answered accordingly. NO problem! :spinn:


Muchas Gracias(thank you ver much) Did I spell it in spanish correctly lol? I'm trying to learn it :help:

Our culture is also complete. That we can bring up all the ethnic biologies that compose our culture is a sign of inclusion, not exclusion. While U.S. culture is allowed to go on with itself in terms of self-definition, it seems arrogant to assume that Latino people should adopt the ways of another nation whose history is peculiar onto itself. While some may seek to identify themselves as one or the other without a regard to all (as an "escape hatch") is a sign of racist beliefs, I do not think that simply identifying as African-Latino is a complete statement either. Latinos do not have to identify ourselves as Afro- Indo- or Euro-. We are what we are... a rich and diverse culture... complete. People may use the term interchangeably for whatever reason they may have, but nevertheless we are still "Latino". (Unlike the marketing term "hispanic" which so-called White Americans have invented to group all Spanish-speaking peoples together regardless of differences.) To say we are "Latino" connects us to this land which has created the culture that exists today. It is a term that WE give to ourselves and encompasses all that we are.

To sit here and define ourselves along another culture's terminology is ignoring our ancestral past that has taken hundreds and thousands of years to arrive where we are today as a people. Latino history may have its share of racism, but to use U.S. methods of defining who we are (or resolving our issues) would not benefit us. (ie. Puerto Rico has been subjected to U.S. ideas of race who has tried to continue to force a split (begun by Spain) amongst us based on THEIR ideas of race and separation. We have resisted even 100 years later as we have the highest percentage of intermarriage in Latin America.) We should be respected to define ourselves as we are, without the intrusion of American ethno-supremacist thoughts. This doesn't mean we should ignore our varied cultural roots... it means we should be allowed to make up our own minds as to how we should go about preserving and further building our culture. We are born from a twisted past, of course... that doesn't mean we should remain this way. Every culture defines itself along ancestral lines and the history that created it. However, it should not be another culture dictating how we should think or act. U.S. thinking never seems to consider that we are already a people.

Actually. I'm in Michigan but I'll be moving back to NY next year. The last time I went to Cuba I was 20; I'm 30, now but we are taking my daughter, Yemaya, there in November so she can receive her elekes. I'm so excited for her. The first time I went to start my religious work, my mami took me to the big statue of Ochun In Havana and I could not stop crying. Oh by the way, I didn't think you were hitting on me! :0 You can go to migente.com if you want to check me out! My user name is Hija_de_yemaya. You can see my baby girl, too! Are you cuban, too?

Debes de ir... a mi amigo le hicieron Obatala en la Habana Vieja. Los tambores en Cuba son tremendos !! Se montaron unos cuantos Orichas. Me dio la gana de quedarme ahi. Esa gente son Cubiches de verdad !! Conozco gente en la Habana, Matanzas y Santiago.

Soy boricua pero tengo ese pueblo en mi corazon !! Hay muchos aqui que no quieren que veamos la belleza de corazon que tienen esos islenos, pero vete y chequealo tu misma... y cuando puedas ve al Museo Yoruba (#615 Prado entre Dragones y Montes)... ahi te encontraras con un estatua de Ochun que mide 10 pies en altura... eso si que es bello... le dices a Mercedes Armenteros que Hiali Quinonez le manda saludos !! Ella es la secretariada general del museo. Ella me hizo la introduccion con el Lic. Antonio Castenedas (el presidente)... y el me invito hablar en el Congreso Internacional ahi. Regresare a Cuba el ano que viene.

Odabo, manita :spinn:

Most "conquered" people are subjected to the legacy of European hegemony and mores, suffer from a form of identity crisis. The masses are for the most part lulled asleep. One could argue that american chattel slavery served as the Template for all colored folks to be held in check. For a time.

This is what we call the blues! :book:

Ashe

"People may use the term interchangeably for whatever reason they may have, but nevertheless we are still "Latino". (Unlike the marketing term "hispanic" which so-called White Americans have invented to group all Spanish-speaking peoples together regardless of differences.) To say we are "Latino" connects us to this land which has created the culture that exists today. It is a term that WE give to ourselves and encompasses all that we are."

DadaChango, actually the term "Latino" is a marketing term, and Hispanic is a cultural term, as in spanish-speaking, spanish traditions... There is no Latino culture as there is no African Culture, or European Culture, or Asian Culture... All of these peoples have varied and different cultures...

There is no Pan-Latino trane of thought, as there is no Pan-African trane of thought - which we are, I guess, all struggling to achieve. New York Puerto Ricans are not of the same thinking when it comes to voting as the Miami Cubans, and that is not an African American imposing my views on so-called Latinos. When I say "so-called" I am not being disrespectful, but keeping in concert and consistency with my purview on the term.

Here in our city(yours and mine)Dominicans and Puerto Ricans have very different histories here, and in their native countries... That impacts on their entire purview of how to proceed at the polls, as well as, their social interactions with one another. The Colombians out in Elmhurst and Jackson Heights, Queens are another entity, and the Mexicans "invading" Spanish Harlem these days present their own issues and agendas, and they differ from the P.R.'s who've been here since the 1880's...

I agree with you that African Americans have ZERO right to tell you how you should think, and I've said so elsewhere at this board... On principle alone, we are a people who should know better than to impose our views on anyone outside of our group... God knows we raise holy hell when this is done to us, and the world knows by now to step carefully in that arena(smile!) If anything, we should be defending your god-given right to self-determination and self-definition...

Nuff respect, bruh, but 'connects us to this land'? What land are you referring to?

Peace!
Isaiah

DadaChango, actually the term "Latino" is a marketing term, and Hispanic is a cultural term, as in spanish-speaking, spanish traditions... There is no Latino culture as there is no African Culture, or European Culture, or Asian Culture... All of these peoples have varied and different cultures...
"'Latinos'/'Latin-Americans': refers to Puerto Ricans, Chicanos (Mexican Americans), and Spanish speaking people from Central America, South America, and the Caribbean who are living in the United States. 'Hispanic' is another term used to describe these populations, in fact, that is the term the U.S. government used in their data collection. But those who prefer to be known as 'Latinos' say the word was coined to express a common cultural heritage (Black, Native American, and Spanish), while the term 'Hispanic' merely reflects common usage of a European-based language. Female members of these groups are called 'Latinas'." source link (http://www.bsu.edu/students/cpsc/article/printfriendly/0,1386,24488-4102-8474,00.html)

"Hispania" is the Roman name for Spain which eventually became known by a similar-sounding "España" (the oldest known name was originally "Tarshish" and is found in the Old Testament of the Judeo/Christian Bible). To say we are "Hispanic" denotes we still have an allegiance to Spain. If we still wanted to be aligned with Spain we would have never fought for independence in the first place. The term "Latino" connects us to the land which has given birth to what a famous Mexican named José Vasconcelos called the "Cosmic Race".{1} (http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/french/as-sa/ASSA-No9/JG2.html) Regardless of our past (Indigenous and African slavery) , we still have the intellectual and numerative power within our hands to affect change in order to create a brighter future.


There is no Pan-Latino trane of thought, as there is no Pan-African trane of thought - which we are, I guess, all struggling to achieve.
Having been involved from birth in movements towards our solidarity, I respectfully disagree. My aunt Nisi was a member of the central comittee of the Young Lords Party of the late 60's and 70's and also the Black Panther Party. "Power to the People" is not a strange term I just happened to come across. {2} (http://palante.org/Documentary.htm) (Check out Iris Morales' documentary if you ever get the chance.)


New York Puerto Ricans are not of the same thinking when it comes to voting as the Miami Cubans, and that is not an African American imposing my views on so-called Latinos. When I say "so-called" I am not being disrespectful, but keeping in concert and consistency with my purview on the term.
Diversity in cultural/societal needs and economic situations here in the U.S. created this as in any of the "Latino" Nations.

Miami Cubans who arrived in the early 60's were from the upper classes of Cuban society. Many of them are still trying today to coerce international associations to legally (and illegally ie. the Bay of Pigs fiasco) obtain their repossessed lands from the Cuban government. Nationalization wiped the Cuban economic slate clean and allowed them to achieve (despite the U.S. embargo and other underhanded tactics) what it has achieved as a Nation in leaps and bounds. 98% literary rate... a higher life expectancy than EVEN the United States... more "Black" neurosurgeons in proportion to their population than African-Americans here in the U.S., etc. You'd be pissed TOO if you had your land taken away to be redistributed amongst the rest of your poor countrymen and women!

"Marielitos" {3} (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr02.htm) (who arrived in the 80's) do not necessarily share the same views as the earlier wave of Cubans. They may all despise Castro, but they do not vote the same. "Marielitos" were those convicted of crimes, those deemed psychiatrically unstable and homosexuals (who have, since the 90's, been given more respect than even here in the United States)... all peoples considered by Castro's government to be anti-revolutionary in the building of the modern Cuban Nation. They were told they had to leave rather than stay and cause dissension in the reconstruction of what was once a heavy slave plantation society. Many of these Cubans are still living with this grudge. Why NOT vote Republican... if it means probably getting your land back? In the meantime, the Island Cubans under Fidel have moved on. Having lived there for months at a time, I have experienced this progression and have developed a bottomless respect for their INCREDIBLE intelligence. I remember talking to a "Black" man who spoke 7 languages. Their intelligence made me stand in awe. They may have a long way to go to achieve a true democracy, but SO DO WE. We can debate which form of government is best until the cows come home...but SELF-DETERMINATION is of paramount importance to a people's INTEGRITY. The platform upon which Island Cubans have chosen to stand upon has allowed them to progress the way THEY wanted to. Even in the U.S. you supposedly have a "free society", but for a great deal of time, you still had enslaved people who weren't even considered a FULL person. This isn't such a great place either when you really think about it.

Even during the time when the U.S. did not seem to care about apartheid in South Africa, many Cubans (from the island) have fought and died in that African nation for the sake of "people" . {4} (http://www.afrocubaweb.com/southafrica.htm)

Puerto Rico is a prime example of how destructive the U.S. has been in terms of its foreign policies towards its neighboring NATIONS. Going to that island may make one THINK there is wealth... everything LOOKS like it may be an affluent society to the everyday tourist... but, the reality is that 2/3rds of the people live on welfare and food stamps. Puerto Rico's GNP is THREE TIMES POORER than the state of Mississippi. EVERYTHING there is simply too expensive for the everyday Puerto Rican to afford. The products that are made BY Puerto Ricans are sold back to Puerto Ricans at ridiculously higher prices.

In the case of the Puerto Rican archipelago... 1899 brought Hurricane San Ciriaco to the island, destroyed most of the farmland and killed over 3,500 people. The U.S. moved in to purchase the land cheaply only to have Puerto Ricans come in to work for slave wages. They took advantage of this miserable situation and, instead of economic aid, chose to create huge monopolized sugar plantations... plantations which became known as "The Big Four". These were absentee-owned sugar corporations that established a policy of hiring fewer and fewer native workers. This situation threw the Puerto Rican economy into a downward spiral from which it has never recovered. From owning 93% of the farmland, in 1897... the Puerto Rican people were MADE destitute by an Imperialistic Nation bent on serving their OWN ECONOMIC INTERESTS. Vieques Island, P.R. and 60 years of ALL-OUT WAR and land devastation is the historical proof of how the United States made Puerto Rico into the "Great American Toilet Bowl".{5} (http://ponce.inter.edu/cai/tesis/halvarez/cap2.html) In order to survive we succumbed (through economic trickery during times of misery and political coercion) to the invading U.S. government. That, coupled with the supression of our independence movement, has caused us to take a different route, both economically, politically and even socially.

Nevertheless, Cubans (in the island) and Puerto Ricans (in the island and some here) still consider themselves to be "two sisters" separated by the U.S. This has not changed and I doubt it ever will. The United States loves to instill propaganda between us... trying to cause us to never come together... but, our flags aren't similar because of some mistake. WE created our flag together with the Cubans in New York City (1895) with the very same design and inverted color schemes to show a permanent solidarity between our two Nations. When I stayed in Cuba, I was constantly reminded that one day we TOO will be free. I can never forget how those words felt when they passed through my very soul.

I understand your response... no offense is taken. Although you may have a million differing opinions in the world, my eyes... as well as others... remain fixed on the goal of solidarity.


Here in our city (yours and mine) Dominicans and Puerto Ricans have very different histories here, and in their native countries... That impacts on their entire purview of how to proceed at the polls, as well as, their social interactions with one another. The Colombians out in Elmhurst and Jackson Heights, Queens are another entity, and the Mexicans "invading" Spanish Harlem these days present their own issues and agendas, and they differ from the P.R.'s who've been here since the 1880's...
Again, our histories are uniquely different from nation to nation. Dominican Republic was invaded by U.S. forces in 1965 and another government forced into place (of course, with all the anti-Castro rhetoric of the 1960's... communism was given a bad name). {6} (http://www.progressive.org/mplvjl00.htm) They have their own story to tell. Nevertheless, we remain united against the oppressive force in this hemisphere... the United States. Dominicans are my brothers and sisters... and we share similar origins as well. Involvement in "Latino" solidarity movements have allowed me to see this first-hand.


I agree with you that African Americans have ZERO right to tell you how you should think, and I've said so elsewhere at this board... On principle alone, we are a people who should know better than to impose our views on anyone outside of our group... God knows we raise holy hell when this is done to us, and the world knows by now to step carefully in that arena(smile!) If anything, we should be defending your god-given right to self-determination and self-definition...
I didn't refer to "African-Americans"... more so the ones who run this Nation. From "Negro" to "Black" to "Afro-American" to "African-American"... a Nation has defined themselves within the parameters of the only Nation in the Western Hemisphere to have not eradicated the institution of slavery with their own independence (from the 1770's to the 1860's is around 90 years). I understand and support your community in what it seeks to achieve for itself. And, while I can straddle all these "racial" lines, I have an identity that is self-defined by the people who I am a part of. My online name, "dadachango", attests to my own recognition of my African roots... however, I still study and practice Indigenous American spirituality as it is an intrinsic and inseparable part of me as well. I should not have to choose a side in order to be "down for the cause". I am simply confident in who and WHAT I have derived from. I uphold all aspects of ME. In "Latino" nations... slavery was one of the major reasons (if not the only one), for separation from the colonizing Empire.


Nuff respect, bruh, but 'connects us to this land'? What land are you referring to?
Latino-America... the majority of these two continents (save for the U.S. and Canada), of course. :grouphug:

Ashe.

Thank You for the history lesson Dadachango69!!

Dadachango, I wont debate about a Pan-Latino Culture, any more than I will debate a Pan-African culture... Both are theoretical... Pan-Latino Unity, Pan-Latino Solidarity, yes, but a culture all subscribe to??? Uh, uh, bruh(smile!)

I don't have much to argue with what you said, but it was not Fulgencio Batista who was responsible for the murder of those more than 5,000 African Cubans in 1912. Batista is a terrible enough figure not to dump that on the man's grave... For one, he was born in 1901, not yet old enough to be President, or hold office in Cuba or elsewhere(smile!) Refer to the following webpage for more information on that infamous massacre...

http://diaspora.northwestern.edu/cgi-bin/WebObjects/DiasporaX.woa/wa/displayArticle?atomid=242

I'm at work now, and I will revisit this issue later...

Peace!
Isaiah

it was not Fulgencio Batista who was responsible for the murder of those more than 5,000 African Cubans in 1912.

Thanks for pointing out the oversight. It was actually an amendment by Morúa Delgado which was named after him (Moruá) which incited the massacre a few years later. Moruá was himself of african descent. I guess that is our version of a "sellout".

Wow, dada, this is some deep stuff here. There's a lot there to investigate. Ima have to revisit this again. Spoken like a tru omo-Chango. You go!

Perate, where's my flag?! lol

We have too many people in our community that do not accept that their race is the same as ours. These people in my eyes are worst than the KKK.
We have people disrespecting the fact that this is a Black People's Forum and they come in here typing spanish without translating. WHY... I ask myself.

I have noticed a lot of Anti-American comments and I ask myself why do these people come here to America.

The bottomline is that Black people from other cultures (Puerto Ricans, Dominicans,...) come to America to live like the Black Americans that they associate with openly but inwardly they do not want to "MAKE THE CONNECTION".

So who is worst the white man dressed up in KKK attire or the person with "black skin" that says to another Black person.... "I am not Black".

I think that there seriously needs to be a reality check.

These same "black skinned" NON-Black people are using up the resources in our BLACK COMMUNITIES. When "black skinned" or "colored" immigrants come into the US... they do not go to the White Communities and set up shop. They know for the most part they are not going to "welcome them with open arms" so these "colored or black skinned" so called NON-Black people go to the BLACK COMMUNITIES.

It is deceptiveness. This deception is worst than the KKK. Black people welcome these people and in essence these people stab the REAL Black People in their backs.

Do you know what is the purpose of the US Census?

Also to add.... I think that Black People in general.. need to stop focusing on being LIKED.. we need to make sure that we are always RESPECTED. These people that deny their blackness may act like they like us but they are actually disrespecting us.

According to the US Census... everyone in the US... has to first tell what their race is and then select a Hispanic, Latino culture if they have one. Being Latino is not your race. Being Hispanic is not your race. Race vs. Cutlure a lot of people do not understand that there is a difference. For me... I think we need stronger IMMIGRATION LAWS.

When people are in our community like the Asians, and others that we know are not Black and are not supporting our community we say that there is a problem. Racism and Discrimination exist in Hispanic and Latino cultures just like the American culture. The difference is... that Black Americans in general do not live in denial of what our genetic make up is... WE EMBRACE IT... and that is why we are economically doing better and are more COMPLETE than some of these "colored , black skinned " so called NON-Black people.

Futhermore.... why can't Latinos and Hispanics just call themselves Spanish people.... hmmmm does it have to do with the fact that the true Spaniards disassociate themselves from these Latinos and Hispanics....

FINALLY... WHAT HAPPEN TO THE ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD TEST!?!?!? :)

BTW... Most of these same people say that their RACE on the CENSUS is WHITE. Approximately 90% of these Latinos and Hispanics that look Black... are saying that their race is WHITE. So WHITE America... do not consider them to be WHITE... and that is why.. we have the CULTURE CLASSIFICATIONS. SO WHEN I SEE THESE SAME PEOPLE SAY BLACK AND RACE IS SOMETHING.. THAT IS BASICALLY USED TO DIVIDE.... WHERE DO YOU THINK... THE CULTURE CLASSIFICATIONS COME FROM.... -- WHITE AMERICA. :cool:

Politically -- what happened to the Black Agenda????

This is a great post IntuitioninMD....I'm impressed!

Is there any reason why you're attacking me with that rhetoric? I am Latina and identify with all that is in me. On top of that, I haven't said one thing for you to lash out at me with that. Thanks a lot for the comment of "using up your resources". Forget about typing anything anymore in here. Take care and peace. I'm gone.

Is there any reason why you're attacking me with that rhetoric? I am Latina and identify with all that is in me. On top of that, I haven't said one thing for you to lash out at me with that. Thanks a lot for the comment of "using up your resources". Forget about typing anything anymore in here. Take care and peace. I'm gone.

I don’t think IntuitioninMD was attacking you Zoraida, her post just happened to follow yours. What she said is something many African Americans feel about Latinos, especially Afro-Latinos that try to pass as white.

I'm ignorant of what was said before. But with Ms intuition, I'm impressed too!! Are you the same person? Skipping that, Zoraida with all due respect-she was not addressing you. If she was-she'd done so. 'Slap!' Did I do that??!!! Any how to reverse what Intuition said-what of immigrants that do the exact opposite? Like the Nubian Egyptian that sued INS in a publicized case to change his designation from 'white' to 'Black'. Not all immigrants are as Intuition said but one like that is TOOOO many!!!!

After posting in and reading a couple of these types of threads that explore Black/Latino connections, which usually becomes the “Latino vs. Black” debate, It is obvious to me that all the information, scholarship or olive-branches that you present means nothing. I had wish Black and Brown people would celebrate their similarities and their commonalties, especially Latinos who are of African descent or those who are considered Afro-Latino, but I am convinced this will only happen among a hand-full of the culturally aware of both peoples and/or cultures.

Whites no matter what language they speak, what complexion their skin or how different their cultures or histories have been, can all come together as one social dynamic or international collective; be it European or White, they face the rest of the world (people of color) as one entity. We (people of color) will never represent a solidify entity, no matter how much we have in common, ethnically, ancestrally or culturally. Even in our African spiritual and historical paradigms we find reasons to be different and can't recognize that we have the same spiritual ancestors.

The slave masters and conquistadors have surely won this battle and plantation shall never be empty, even when master is dead and buried. This is so sad, but true.


Peace,

Brother Sun

Whites no matter what language they speak, what complexion their skin or how different their cultures or histories have been, can all come together as one social dynamic or international collective; be it European or White, they face the rest of the world (people of color) as one entity. We (people of color) will never represent a solidify entity, no matter how much we have in common, ethnically, ancestrally or culturally. Even in our African spiritual and historical paradigms we find reasons to be different and can't recognize that we have the same spiritual ancestors.

The slave masters and conquistadors have surely won this battle and plantation shall never be empty, even when master is dead and buried. This is so sad, but true.


Peace,

Brother Sun


Brother Sun Ship.... I almost see your point and I also do feel that some people are mentally still enslaved. One thing that I will and must say about African Americans in general --- that is forgotten --- is that with UNITY we were abot to accomplish big things. For our ancestors to go through so much torture from the slave trade, to slavery, to racial discrimination - African Americans (Blacks) have UNITED and have and collectively have taken our people to a higher level. We need to keep on fighting the good fight until we have all the we need and some of the things we want.... BUT you do have African American Upper Class and Upper Middle Class Communities where there are real stores. Of course that is so much work that still needs to be done. Our original tongue(language) was TAKEN from us -- just as it was taken from other people that were part of the slave trade.

When we really do need to....Black People do come together and are united.

For white people in general -- they have their own discrimination --- look at the Jews. They have more religious unity problems --- probably because they do not have a rainbow of people (dark skinned to light skinned). But they do discriminate amongst each other for things like their hair texture, how pale their skin is compared to other white people.

But we are not trying to become like the Vikings.

In order for us.. to really unity... we need to accept the differences and acknowledge when some one is being disrepectful.

I have had Africans tell me on a number of occasions... "at least my ancestors were not slaves" ---- things like that make me want to dail immigration.

" When we really do need to....Black People do come together and are united. "

So true.

" For white people in general -- they have their own discrimination --- look at the Jews. They have more religious unity problems --- probably because they do not have a rainbow of people (dark skinned to light skinned). But they do discriminate amongst each other for things like their hair texture, how pale their skin is compared to other white people. "

Great point. The worst discrimination I have seen is when they turn on each other. I see crying, and total break down. They attack each other on social class, and ethnic levels as you state.


" I have had Africans tell me on a number of occasions... "at least my ancestors were not slaves" ---- things like that make me want to dail immigration. "

Those slaves came from Africa, so why should you feel bad? It is actually of their ancestor, slave blood arrived undiluted. It wasn't until their arrival we were born of that melting and blend.

The blood that flows here in America is of their ancestors first, mine second.

============

Latino's are just my lighter shade of brown. I believe someone said, and pointed out how the complextion of latino, and mexicans range from white to black. If there was no connection why do they speak spanish in Panama?

============

"Racism and Discrimination exist in Hispanic and Latino cultures just like the American culture. The difference is... that Black Americans in general do not live in denial of what our genetic make up is... WE EMBRACE IT... and that is why we are economically doing better and are more COMPLETE than some of these "colored , black skinned " so called NON-Black people."

No disrespect, but I believe your statements reflect a general lack of understanding on your part about how racism/"white supremacy" operates and its highly adaptive nature w/r/t racial categorization. The reason why Americans have a vastly different understanding of race than much of the world including latin and much of south america has absolutely nothing to do with Americans being more honest about the topic, or "not in denial". The fact of the matter is, that there are major differences in the way in which racism operates in america vs. many other parts of the world, and this has a direct bearing on how people are racially categorized (which is very much arbitrary, especially with regards to the categorization of "mixed" race/descended people), and in turn, view themselves.

It must be understood that the "one drop rule" is for the most part a uniquely Anglo-American phenomenon. It is hardly universal. Why isn't it universal?

Answer:

1) "racism" isn't predicated on the existence of a "pure" white race. as a supremacist system, it is highly adaptive to the cultural environment it is implemented in.

2) racial categorization is NOT an exact science, it's socially defined, and the main cultural "environmental factor" influencing "racial categorization" is demographics.

So from this I can answer why is it that in latin and south america, north africa and asia where the demographic situation is such that "browns" outnumber both "whites" and "blacks", "browns" are members of the elite oppressive hierarchy? (where I have defined "blacks" as unmixed dark skinned people, "browns" as intermediate skinned people between "black" and "white", and "whites" as extremely fair skinned people)

Because generally in "white" supremacist systems: the elite group only becomes stringently "exclusive" in terms of only allowing membership to "pure" whites (like in america) when "whites" significantly outnumber others but otherwise the membership is inclusive (like the much of the world outside of america).

Another good example of this is in europe during Nazism, where membership to the elite group at the top of the social hierarchy was so stringently exclusive that "whites" like slavics, jews, rom gypsies were considered non-white and persecuted.

In present-day Sudan, it's the reverse situation, where only the blackest of the black with absolutely no cultural or racial ties are desiginated as the lowest of the low, while the vast majority of their oppressors would be "black" by american standards, are at the top of the social-hierarchy as essentially "non-blacks".

It has to be understood from history and looking at this from a global perspective that "White" supremacy (i.e. skin color based hierarchy" isn't predicated on the purity of "whites" or for that matter their existance in any one society. Once the initial posion of skin color based prejudice/oppression enters a society, it can maintain itself indefinitely without the existence of actual "white" people. ("white" = by american standards).

It's a bit much for Americans to expect a people from an entirely different culture to come to America and immediately adopt the mainstream racial/cultural understanding that they have (and yes, it's particularly difficult in america to seperate race and culture, so there goes that argument, that they're always mutually exclusive), they have a vastly different experience.

And perhaps, you should be worried about immigration because with the "browning of america" due to the increasing of population of so-called "non-whites" from different cultures, the racial definitions are CERTAINLY going to change and definitely cause a fragmentation in the "one drop of black blood" makes you black population of american blacks, your preference or not.

It's already happening with groups pushing and lobbying for the multiracial categorization on the census forms, if that hasn't already happened, I'm not sure.

i don't like this tendency of lumping together "people of colour" as somehow being a diametrically opposed group to "whites". This is simply not the case in most parts of the world.

Remember "people of colour" includes groups like arabs, indians, far east asian mongoloids who also have their own history of abusing "blacks" in their own cultural spheres. Remember it was Europeans who substituted the middle easterners as the main abusers of blacks in Africa.


it's not "whites" vs. "people of colour"

it's more like

whites vs. people of colour when whites are the majority

but when they are not, it's

whites + browns vs. blacks.


and more generally,


it's human vs. human.

Are you the same liviti from blackplanet.com? Any who I agree the system has been blacks vs. browns and whites. It was not long ago that "colored" and black were 2 separate identities in the united states, there was no lumped connection other than the fact they had slave blood in them but the mulattos and other multiracial still had hierarchy over the dark ones. Fact of the matter is just because someone has even a modicum of slave blood in them doesn't mean they're going to share your agenda, as many of the Latin disporians repeatedly show you in the US.

Are you the same liviti from blackplanet.com? Any who I agree the system has been blacks vs. browns and whites. It was not long ago that "colored" and black were 2 separate identities in the united states, there was no lumped connection other than the fact they had slave blood in them but the mulattos and other multiracial still had hierarchy over the dark ones. Fact of the matter is just because someone has even a modicum of slave blood in them doesn't mean they're going to share your agenda, as many of the Latin disporians repeatedly show you in the US.

Sorry... I must correct you... on that fact... first they called as Negros... than .. COLORED... than ... BLACK... and now.. for some... African Americans.... therefore colored people were always... people from African Descent..... I do not know why we are dancing.. around the term color... I simply used... to appease the people that do not consider their race to be black... but.. want... their.. culture to classify what their race is... and it does not work that way.

Either way... the issue is not black vs... brown.. I do not know... what that is about... it is .. people that.. have ancestors... that are CLEARLY from Africa but they deny that genetic link.

But.. to each his own.

If you do not accept yourself... for who you are... how are you going to expect someone of another race to accept and RESPECT you.


I know of a person that was born in New York and her parents.. were Dominican and Trinidadian... and her race is black..... She moved to Florida... where it is Little Cuba and tried to deny her blackness and wanted people to only see her for being a Hispanic.... her fellow... Cuban... Hispanic people told her on several occassions that she is not a hispanic... she is black... BUT... she is HISPANIC AND BLACK....

No colored and Negro were always classified as 2 different groups, one mixed one pure, or at least dark enough to be considered so. The CME church itself was founded based on this concept. Hispanic isn't really a race as much as an ethnic group, and many of the Cubans in little Havana are "white" anyway. But as stated before the slaves from other parts of the Americas do not share the same cultural environment as American Negroes and thus do not feel the need for affiliation. Unless political support is needed of course :smokin:

The CME church? Do you mean the AME church?

No colored and Negro were always classified as 2 different groups, one mixed one pure, or at least dark enough to be considered so. The CME church itself was founded based on this concept. Hispanic isn't really a race as much as an ethnic group, and many of the Cubans in little Havana are "white" anyway. But as stated before the slaves from other parts of the Americas do not share the same cultural environment as American Negroes and thus do not feel the need for affiliation. Unless political support is needed of course :smokin:

YOu are mistaken:

"The group of people in America distinguished as Blacks have had a long list of names. In fact we can learn important historical facts from the periods in which names like Colored, and Negro distinguished Black people.

So Blacks accepted the name Negro as respectable, and later during Jim Crow they accepted the name Colored."

In America... there is no longer a check box for "color". IN AFRICA... I know that there are still places that do the pencil test and that their are some Black people their they may consider themselves to be white.....

But... hey... we are sharing to learn and understand. :)

nah CME was made after the AME

"Either way... the issue is not black vs... brown.. I do not know... what that is about... it is .. people that.. have ancestors... that are CLEARLY from Africa but they deny that genetic link.

But.. to each his own.

If you do not accept yourself... for who you are... how are you going to expect someone of another race to accept and RESPECT you."

so anybody that has an ancestor from africa (and how recent does that lineage have to be, since presumably all of humanity is descended from original humans out of africa) is just black?

that's an american perspective that people with even one black ancestor, no matter how distant are "black".

and THAT IS THE issue: the largely SUBJECTIVE nature of racial categorization which is why american blacks (a largely mixed population) do not see eye to eye with hispanic and others on the subject who is "black" and who isn't all of the time.

it's not like american blacks just woke up one day accepting clearly mixed race looking people as "black", while hispanics and others consciously chose not too. these perceptions are a product of their cultural influences, namely the type and way in which racism manifests itself in their respective societies.

yes, there was a seperation between "blacks" and "mixed-types" in america but it was never to the extent it was in other societies such as in latin america or north africa.

There is a lot of oversimplification in this debate over the use of the terms colored, Negro, black or African to denote and describe people of African descent. All four of these terms were a preference and frequently used term by whites even before the 1900’s, as noted in many early American documents referring to our people. We borrowed each one of these titles from white society and have used them as we saw fit, be it for political, social or cultural reasons. The terms colored and negro were almost synonymous in the early to mid 1900’s, not only by African Americans but to others, just look at the names of most Black organizations in that time period.

“Light-skinned mixed-race” African Americans who chose to segregate their selves from the main stream of “colored society” were in a minority, though they were numerous and proficiently organized. This type of “color game” was complex and many times inconsistent. Sometimes it was done openly, but sometimes quietly and discretely. Some of these African Americans would cordially associate with dark skinned relatives, friends and co-workers daily and would still join “Blue vein” organizations and churches that would only accept “Negroes” with “light complexions”.

In a white patriarchal world, miscegenation of whites and blacks, historically has been detrimental for Blacks, because in recent world history (last 2000 years) many societies, usually warmongering whites, Aryans and other Asiatic people would conquer and overthrow pacifist Black nations and impregnate the women, who children were mandated to give allegiance to their foreign “non-Black” fathers (this is patriarchy 101). Usually these mulattos were given special privilege and control over the territory via their patriarchal birthright and their allegiance to the fatherland. Middle-Eastern Arabs and many other North Africans are products of this racial phenomenon and later also Europeans, North and South Americans. (Refer to the works of Dr. John Henrik Clark and the three-volume work “Sex and Race” by J. A. Rodgers)

This subject is deep and explosive, because it gets to the root of other people true ancestry.

Peace,

Brother Sun Ship

Interesting, that is exactly what the Portuguese and French, and British did to the Ibo and fon Benin and Nigeria. Most of the "Africans" weren't truly black but lancado or half-breeds who swore allegiance to the colonial powers that these empires used to be allied to. Namely abomey

Are you the same liviti from blackplanet.com? Any who I agree the system has been blacks vs. browns and whites. It was not long ago that "colored" and black were 2 separate identities in the united states, there was no lumped connection other than the fact they had slave blood in them but the mulattos and other multiracial still had hierarchy over the dark ones. Fact of the matter is just because someone has even a modicum of slave blood in them doesn't mean they're going to share your agenda, as many of the Latin disporians repeatedly show you in the US.

Brother Oba, What is "slave Blood", my beautiful brother???(smile!) I want you to explain to me how the properties of Human Blood differ from "slave blood", doctor...(smile!) Man, we get some doozies up in here...

Peace!
Isaiah

Quote: Brother Oba Iparankanru

“… there was no lumped connection other than the fact they had slave blood in them…”

unquote



Whoa…Man o’man…brother Isaiah, I read right pass that term “slave blood”. What in the world is this…do you think this was a Freudian slip or some sort of continental African distinguisher used for diasporic Africans in the western hemisphere, that we're unaware of …slave blood???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

I am also waiting for brother Oba Iparankanru reply



:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


Baffled,


Brother Sun Ship

Those descended from the slave blood of africans who were enslaved as opposed to the free darks in the north(who were never enslaved but migrated on their own accord in the 18th century).

added: Pre emancipation 1790's-1860s

Those descended from the slave blood of africans who were enslaved as opposed to the free darks in the north(who were never enslaved but migrated on their own accord in the 18th century).

added: Pre emancipation 1790's-1860s

That's ya STO-ree, and ya stickin' to it, I see, docta(smile!) Awight, Black man, awight now!(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Quote: Brother Oba Iparankanru

“… there was no lumped connection other than the fact they had slave blood in them…”

unquote



Whoa…Man o’man…brother Isaiah, I read right pass that term “slave blood”. What in the world is this…do you think this was a Freudian slip or some sort of continental African distinguisher used for diasporic Africans in the western hemisphere, that we're unaware of …slave blood???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

I am also waiting for brother Oba Iparankanru reply



:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


Baffled,


Brother Sun Ship

I'm witcha Brother Sun Ship!(smile!) I didn't know my blood was distinquishable from any other human being's blood... I always thought that my DNA came from the same African Woman as Brother Oba N Dem, but...well now I know Ise frum de Slave peepas wit de slave Blood... Whut'd I do to be so black and blue - hoohoohoo...(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

This is why learning about our brothers & sister in the Diaspora is so necessary

I don't see why it is upsetting there were mulattos of slave/white blood in the north, and black africans, from empires that had not yet fallen to colonial powers in the north in their own communities as well.

Those descended from the slave blood of africans who were enslaved as opposed to the free darks in the north(who were never enslaved but migrated on their own accord in the 18th century).

added: Pre emancipation 1790's-1860s


I was trying stop drinking...you, know …cut back on the scotch and beer, but this is scary...

My o’ my…good "uga-dee buga-dee"!!

... "slave blood" and "free darks" ?????????????????????????

Now, I want to know what the difference between a “free dark” and an ole time “darky”


You know, the old folks use to tell me... “It's one thing for someone to think you’re a fool...but it's another thing to open your mouth and remove all doubt” ...now, I don't know what this statement has to do with this thread or Brother Oba's post, but I thought I would just interject the wisdom.


Peace (I guess)

Brother Sun Ship

I don't see why it is upsetting there were mulattos of slave/white blood in the north, and black africans, from empires that had not yet fallen to colonial powers in the north in their own communities as well.

Listen Brother O, I might be remiss in my clowning, but I was just trying to be alternative, man...(smile!) I didn't wanna start preaching to you, so I tried to clown a piece... Perhaps, I shoulda preached when all things failed...(smile!)

Deal is Black man, that ALL Human BEings are descended from that AFRICAN MAMA rest of her precious soul... Her blood is not only yours and mine, but the White Man's... There aint no such thing as ETHNIC BLOOD or BLOOD LINES, and that kinda nonsense, ya heard??? That's folk stuff, ignorant old wives tales kinda stuff... It aint got nothin' to do with science... Like RACE and RACES is a geopolitical psycho-social construct... It got nothing to do with real science... Aint got nothing to do with nothing but the false ideas and constructions we learned from living in an ignorant, dumb-downed society...

Again, my young brother, whose intelligence I admire - there's no such thing as "Slave Blood", Yoruba Blood, African American Blood, Pure Blood - or even MIXED BLOOD... Blood. my brother, is BLOOD, and BLOOD comes from The Creator who created that African Woman who is the MOTHER of us all...

Peace!
Isaiah

I don't see why it is upsetting there were mulattos of slave/white blood in the north, and black africans, from empires that had not yet fallen to colonial powers in the north in their own communities as well.

Listen Brother O, I might be remiss in my clowning, but I was just trying to be alternative, man...(smile!) I didn't wanna start preaching to you, so I tried to clown a piece... Perhaps, I shoulda preached when all things failed...(smile!)

Deal is Black man, that ALL Human BEings are descended from that AFRICAN MAMA rest her precious soul... Her blood is not only yours and mine, but the White Man's... There aint no such thing as ETHNIC BLOOD or BLOOD LINES, and that kinda nonsense, ya heard??? That's folk stuff, ignorant old wives tales kinda stuff... It aint got nothin' to do with science...

Like RACE and RACES is a geopolitical psycho-social construct... Its got nothing to do with real science... Aint got nothing to do with nothing but the false ideas and constructions we learned from living in an ignorant, dumb-downed society...

Again, my young brother, whose intelligence I admire - there's no such thing as "Slave Blood", Yoruba Blood, African American Blood, Pure Blood - or even MIXED BLOOD... Blood. my brother, is BLOOD, and BLOOD comes from The Creator who created that African Woman who is the MOTHER of us all...

Peace!
Isaiah

lol, Race is very real, always has been as has racism, long before western civilization was even cultivated. Long before even Arabs started tainting African blood via the sword. There are clear differences between peoples from different continents and areas in and out of Africa. The out of Africa theory is still a hypothesis, not 100% fact. Although I am a staunch believer in the saying science is only as factual as the next discovery. But back to the subject itself the American Slave mixed mulattos were clearly a separate group from the immigrated Africans, Maroons, and Latin American Negroes living abroad in the northern cities. It’s just a fact. as a matter of fact the distinctions were in the south as well. Between pure and mulatto slaves, Masters used to give their mulatto child slaves if he/she was their only offspring.

Good afternoon to all. I just spent approximately eight hours reading through this forum's topic, simply because I couldn't stop, and additionally because I feel a bit sick and took a day off. Nonetheless this has been time well spent. I Am extremely impressed not just with the breadth of knowledge displayed by many of you, but also with the tactful and professional manner in which you disagreed (sometimes). I'm a techie by profession and through my college education, therefore, many of you would be more informed in history than I am, but I feel that my interest and own informal research may help in these debates. Now I would like to address the only two postings that I found disturbing (one, I will only mentioned, the other I would address more in detailed because I feel is more dangerous).

I Am Dominican. A Dominican with a strong African heritage, which could readily be observed in my physical appearance. I was disturbed by the comments made by (Dominican lady whose name thou should not speaketh), nuff said.

The other and perhaps, in my view, the most serious one, is the post made by intuitioninMD. This posting is extremely disrespectful to me as a member of the African Diaspora. The color of my skin is not something that I claim to be accepted by African Americans, is something that I claim because is who I Am, and no one, absolutely no one has a right to tell me I can't do it. Africaness and blackness is not a monopoly controlled by a few. Intution's posting make us look like sneaky little backstabbers, as if we need yet another stereotype, specially coming from people whom have suffer the worst of stereotypes in this country, it was extremely disappointing.

Something that I found extremely offensive was the KKK comparison. Now that didn't hurt me, it just simply pissed me off. The gloves are coming off, you hear that?

Listen, intuition, Afro Latinos and African Americans are fighting for crumbs. You are the true epitome of what happens when you put two cats in bag, they tear each other to pieces trying to escape.

I was shocked that no one called her on this; in fact her display of this intolerant behavior against people like me is what sometimes turns us off. You go to Washington Heights, what African Americans did we stab in the back to get all those businesses up and running, who hangs out in bodegas and is closely associated with Dominicans? The answer -that's the drum roll you hear- African Americans. I think that YOU are no different than the KKK - deport them, speak English only, go back to Africa (oops).

I think you owe every Pan African on this site an apology, for this goes against the spirit of what they are trying to accomplish. You also owe an apology to Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and any other group of people that you HATE and offended by your rant!!!

I encountered someone just like you in Brooklyn Intuition, he saw me come out a Latin club (I was home on leave), and he said something to this effect:” I hate this Spanish mother****rs who speak Spanish and look like me, that think they are black." Of course I ignored his silly ***, because he was a moron and a self-hater.

Needless to say, thank god for afrolatino.com, without this site there wouldn't be one of the many contradictions to comments made by fools who say that Latinos of African decent don't recognize their heritage.

Take care.

P.S. these are some of the major issues that afro Latinos deal with in this country, not light enough to be part of the Latino package trying to be sold, and not black enough to be looked as equals by African Americans. I would never ask for acceptance from others so that they can approve something that I already am. I'm crazy and cocky like that!!!

Dominican Azuca:

I noticed the length of time it took you to read this thread! I am impressed with a person who takes their time to read an entire thread (especially one as long as this), instead of reading 1 or 2 responses, and jumping in! I'm sure you noticed that this topic is extensive, there are actually a few on this website about similar subjects (Afro-Latinos). There are some definate misunderstands, misconceptions, and even hostilities between Afro-Latinos & African Americans. Yet what better way to come to an understanding than this forum. I would like to personally welcome you to Destee.com, and I look forward to your participation!

Thank you for welcoming me Panafrica. There are certainly some misunderstandings and misconceptions about these two groups.

The question that has to do with this thread is “Are Latinos / Hispanics - "Africans" too?

Latinos are an ethnicity, not a nationality or a race. A Latino (for a lack of a better term) can be of various ancestries (African, European, even Asian). There exist a huge number of Latin Americans that have African ancestry, but as we know, some do not claim it due to conditioning brought about by colonization. This fact has already been made clear and elaborated on by more scholarly and capable individuals than I.

Again, thank you for your warm welcome, and I assure you, that my last post was based on what I perceived as something extremely out of context and counter productive to what panafricanism is trying to accomplish. This doesn’t mean that I am against anyone’s opinion; it was just simply my reaction to that opinion.

my last post was based on what I perceived as something extremely out of context and counter productive to what panafricanism is trying to accomplish. This doesn’t mean that I am against anyone’s opinion; it was just simply my reaction to that opinion.

Completely understood!

Good afternoon to all. I just spent approximately eight hours reading through this forum's topic, simply because I couldn't stop, and additionally because I feel a bit sick and took a day off. Nonetheless this has been time well spent. I Am extremely impressed not just with the breadth of knowledge displayed by many of you, but also with the tactful and professional manner in which you disagreed (sometimes). I'm a techie by profession and through my college education, therefore, many of you would be more informed in history than I am, but I feel that my interest and own informal research may help in these debates. Now I would like to address the only two postings that I found disturbing (one, I will only mentioned, the other I would address more in detailed because I feel is more dangerous).

I Am Dominican. A Dominican with a strong African heritage, which could readily be observed in my physical appearance. I was disturbed by the comments made by (Dominican lady whose name thou should not speaketh), nuff said.

The other and perhaps, in my view, the most serious one, is the post made by intuitioninMD. This posting is extremely disrespectful to me as a member of the African Diaspora. The color of my skin is not something that I claim to be accepted by African Americans, is something that I claim because is who I Am, and no one, absolutely no one has a right to tell me I can't do it. Africaness and blackness is not a monopoly controlled by a few. Intution's posting make us look like sneaky little backstabbers, as if we need yet another stereotype, specially coming from people whom have suffer the worst of stereotypes in this country, it was extremely disappointing.

Something that I found extremely offensive was the KKK comparison. Now that didn't hurt me, it just simply pissed me off. The gloves are coming off, you hear that?

Listen, intuition, Afro Latinos and African Americans are fighting for crumbs. You are the true epitome of what happens when you put two cats in bag, they tear each other to pieces trying to escape.

I was shocked that no one called her on this; in fact her display of this intolerant behavior against people like me is what sometimes turns us off. You go to Washington Heights, what African Americans did we stab in the back to get all those businesses up and running, who hangs out in bodegas and is closely associated with Dominicans? The answer -that's the drum roll you hear- African Americans. I think that YOU are no different than the KKK - deport them, speak English only, go back to Africa (oops).

I think you owe every Pan African on this site an apology, for this goes against the spirit of what they are trying to accomplish. You also owe an apology to Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and any other group of people that you HATE and offended by your rant!!!

I encountered someone just like you in Brooklyn Intuition, he saw me come out a Latin club (I was home on leave), and he said something to this effect:” I hate this Spanish mother****rs who speak Spanish and look like me, that think they are black." Of course I ignored his silly ***, because he was a moron and a self-hater.

Needless to say, thank god for afrolatino.com, without this site there wouldn't be one of the many contradictions to comments made by fools who say that Latinos of African decent don't recognize their heritage.

Take care.

P.S. these are some of the major issues that afro Latinos deal with in this country, not light enough to be part of the Latino package trying to be sold, and not black enough to be looked as equals by African Americans. I would never ask for acceptance from others so that they can approve something that I already am. I'm crazy and cocky like that!!!


Welcome my brother, It is my hope that anything I've posted concerning any Dominican Brotha or sistah has offended you. You post was excellent

Ashe

Fear not my good brother Sekhemu for you are in good graces. My comments were not directed at you, simply at a post that caused the African in me to loose it a little bit.

Thank you for your complement, it certainly means a lot to me.

Keep up the good work and fighting the good fight.

Peace and respect to all, including those with whom I disagree.

Personally I think some Hispanics put themselve on the shelf over American Black...the same way I think some Africans do...but the real litmus test is the South baby....Outside the South they can say "I'm not Black I'm Dominican, Puerto Rican, Panamanian, Cuban, African" but come to the Sip baby...you Black just like me.....just like we do ofay...personally I don't care if they're Irish, Italian, Russian, Ukrainian....they all white to me...

Mississippi Red

Personally I think some Hispanics put themselve on the shelf over American Black...the same way I think some Africans do...but the real litmus test is the South baby....Outside the South they can say "I'm not Black I'm Dominican, Puerto Rican, Panamanian, Cuban, African" but come to the Sip baby...you Black just like me.....just like we do ofay...personally I don't care if they're Irish, Italian, Russian, Ukrainian....they all white to me...

Mississippi Red

I tried understanding your post MissippiRed, and in my haze of Nyquil induced stupor, I will try to reply as best I can.

Personally I think some Hispanics put themselve on the shelf over American Black...

Unfortunately, you are right, some hispanics do put themeselves on the shelf over American Blacks. The good thing is that you said "some". Hell, some African Americans put themselves on the shelf over hispanics and other African Americans; and some Hispanics put themselves over other hispanics, i.e. Eropean looking Hispanics over African looking Hispanics. It's a tragedy anyway you look at it, regardless of who is doing it to whom.

but the real litmus test is the South baby

This isn't necessary. I don't need a litmus test nor would I subscribe to one in order to realize that I'm an Afrolatino. I don't need a racist white southerner to call me a ni**er to make me realize that I'm of African ancestry. plus, we have our own litmus test, is called the NYPD.

personally I don't care if they're Irish, Italian, Russian, Ukrainian....they all white to me...

This part I don't understand. I read it a few times in order to put it into context and I don't see anything. Are you implying that this is what all Hispanics think of themselves? Listen, not all Hispanics are black, just like not all americans are. So if they don't see themselves as black, perhaps there is a chance that they are not. Also, you don't define people, they define themselves. I say this, because I don't know which Hispanics you're refferring to.

I'm glad that in the last quote the word "personally" is present. People feel different ways about certain matters, but it doesn't make them right about their perceptions.

I'll give you an example: "personally I think that all people with an extra eyebrow think they are better than me, and they can all go to hell." Does this really mean that all individuals with an extra eyebrow think they are better than me? or is this my "personal" impression?

By the way Mr. MississippiRed, I responded to you out of courtesy and for the sake of discussion, not to make you change religion or anything.

Peace and Respect MississippiRed.

I would never ask for acceptance from others so that they can approve something that I already am. I'm crazy and cocky like that!!!

There's nothing crazy or cocky about that...

Welcome dominican azuca…I’m glad you have decided to come here to Destee.com. Your posts seem to be very well balanced. I invite your opinions and contributions, and those of other conscious brothers and sisters in the Afro-Latino family, especially those of other Afro-Dominicans.

Again welcome.


Peace,

Brother Sun Ship

Vaya, azuquita dominicana. Ya sabes la vaina de los pariguayos aqui. Proponen su mierda y llaman todos nosotros racistas sin saber. El mundo parece a su manera. Se olvidan de los otros pecesitos en el mar.

Tu hermanito, "El moreno de S.P. Macorix". Donde tu ta en Wash Hts?

Vaya, azuquita dominicana. Ya sabes la vaina de los pariguayos aqui. Proponen su mierda y llaman todos nosotros racistas sin saber. El mundo parece a su manera. Se olvidan de los otros pecesitos en el mar. Tu hermanito, "El moreno de S.P. Macorix". Donde tu ta en Wash Hts?

Translation:

You know the stuff of people (lose translation of pariguayos) here. They propose their s---, and they call us racist without knowing. The world seems to be their way, and they forget the other fishes in the sea!
______________

We have an interesting contrast in the entrance of Dominican Azuca & Brazo Fuerte! The former is a welcome addition to the site! A member who is obviously proud of their culture, but has an interest in connecting with the other members of this site. The latter is a person who has come to further divides & make personal attacks! I hope the former will continue to make positive contributions to the site...the latter (Brazo Fuerte) is about to make a quick exit! Brazo Fuerte, you have been respectfully asked to keep conversations which began in English that way! You most certainly will not be allowed to talk about members behind their backs, by switching to another language! This nonsense has gone on long enough, and it will not be tolerated any longer! Consider this your warning...if this behavior continues you will be banned & your post will be deleted!

I tried understanding your post MissippiRed, and in my haze of Nyquil induced stupor, I will try to reply as best I can.

Personally I think some Hispanics put themselve on the shelf over American Black...

Unfortunately, you are right, some hispanics do put themeselves on the shelf over American Blacks. The good thing is that you said "some". Hell, some African Americans put themselves on the shelf over hispanics and other African Americans; and some Hispanics put themselves over other hispanics, i.e. Eropean looking Hispanics over African looking Hispanics. It's a tragedy anyway you look at it, regardless of who is doing it to whom.

but the real litmus test is the South baby

This isn't necessary. I don't need a litmus test nor would I subscribe to one in order to realize that I'm an Afrolatino. I don't need a racist white southerner to call me a ni**er to make me realize that I'm of African ancestry. plus, we have our own litmus test, is called the NYPD.

personally I don't care if they're Irish, Italian, Russian, Ukrainian....they all white to me...

This part I don't understand. I read it a few times in order to put it into context and I don't see anything. Are you implying that this is what all Hispanics think of themselves? Listen, not all Hispanics are black, just like not all americans are. So if they don't see themselves as black, perhaps there is a chance that they are not. Also, you don't define people, they define themselves. I say this, because I don't know which Hispanics you're refferring to.

I'm glad that in the last quote the word "personally" is present. People feel different ways about certain matters, but it doesn't make them right about their perceptions.

I'll give you an example: "personally I think that all people with an extra eyebrow think they are better than me, and they can all go to hell." Does this really mean that all individuals with an extra eyebrow think they are better than me? or is this my "personal" impression?

By the way Mr. MississippiRed, I responded to you out of courtesy and for the sake of discussion, not to make you change religion or anything.

Peace and Respect MississippiRed.

Always for the sake of discussion ...that's one thing I love about coming on here..getting a side of the story or perspective that's different from my own..My comment about white is white is simply the way I think a lot of folk including myself look at different races...I make very few distinctions based on ethnicity...i.e. Italian, Irish, etc..to me the Italian white and the Irish white are the same....but all we have as we go down this long windy road of life is our personal impressions and perspectives that's why I always try to put that into things when I have conversations with folk where we may have differing opinions ...the things I say are just the way I look at the issue and are not intended to change anyone's mind..I only say what I think so that folk will know where I stand on certain things.....

Nothing but love for you Dominican Azuca nothing but love...hope we can continue to exchange ideas via this board for ...be cool.

Mississippi Red
aka The Southern Legend :grin:

dominican azuca I must echo brotha panafricas sentiments in applauding your detailed

summation and reply regarding this thread. There is much that can come from misunderstanding,

it is a pleasure and an honor to know that you have not been one of those examples

but rather a beacon of understanding :) Of course the latter can be seen in Brazo Fuerte...

Ya sabes la vaina de los pariguayos aqui......
"You know the way of the people here..."

The "people here" ?? smh Brazo I would hope and pray that you are not contradicting yourself by accusing EVERYONE of grouping when in one statement you have done the same.

Proponen su mierda y llaman todos nosotros racistas sin saber.....
They propose its s____ and they call all racist without us knowing.

This forum is a home where all are free to voice their opinions within the parameters of the respect and courtesy that we would hope you would want. I have read individual posts of those who may have implied racism, perhaps. But in open exchange we are seeking to clarify and solidify not segragate. Is it not more prejudice for you to use a language unbeknowst to some of the famlee here? Using grandeur assumptions without some knowing? Where is the sense in double talk? Where is the foundation in your own word if you only contradict words with actions?

Se olvidan de los otros pecesitos en el mar.
"They forget about the other fish in the sea..."

This threads EXISTENCE seems to imply otherwise. How could we forget you? There may be individuals who seek to do so but there are many of us (especially here at our destee home) who seek to unite, revive, revitilize our bonds. Only after thorough discourse and communication and the like can we ever move forward.

My brown Brazo Fuerte...powerful name...may you be a strong arm to lift up those who encounter your presence and not the opposite.

:read: :) :grouphug: :read:

I came across this site and wanted to share it with all of you. I found it very interesting.

http://www.emporia.edu/news/2003-04/may/hernandez_book.htm

This is a an incredible site! Thank You for introducing it to the family Dominican Azuca!

I came across this site and wanted to share it with all of you. I found it very interesting.

http://www.emporia.edu/news/2003-04/may/hernandez_book.htm

Brother Dominican Azuca, I have read many things about African heritage in Latin American and Mexico over the years and this is a very concise and powerful link. I am going to put this brothers book on my booklist. Thanks for the info!

Here are some powerful statements by Professor Marco Polo Hernández Cuevas from that web page :

“Between 55 and 85 percent of Mexicans can trace their family back to African slaves, but cultural leaders have actively shunned this identity.”

“The knowledge of our ancestors has been erased through education, he said”

“We are African on our Spanish side, and African on our African side,” he said. “We are ‘Neo-Africans’ just as much as we are Amerindian or European.”

“Mexicans, Hispanics, Latinos and African Americans will recognize one another in our common African heritage and bridge the gap that divides us,"

I don't think our Mexican brothers and sisters want to here this type of stuff...I'm suprised they haven't tar and feather this author.


Peace,

Brother Sun

I came across this site and wanted to share it with all of you. I found it very interesting.

http://www.emporia.edu/news/2003-04/may/hernandez_book.htm


Thanks a lot brotha, very enlightening site

Hello everyone, I hope all of you had a wonderful holiday season. I have a question though, what happened to this thread? Is it dead? Did I do or say something wrong, and therefore brought it to a screeching halt? i hope not, i wouldn't be able to forgive myself. Either way, I hope everyone is well.

Hello everyone, I hope all of you had a wonderful holiday season. I have a question though, what happened to this thread? Is it dead? Did I do or say something wrong, and therefore brought it to a screeching halt? i hope not, i wouldn't be able to forgive myself. Either way, I hope everyone is well.

I'm glad you had a wonderful holiday season Dominican Azuca! About this thread, I assure you that you didn't do anything wrong. Actually brother Isaiah has been presenting wonderful information about Afro-Latinos, he just decided to do outside of this thread. Perhaps you have something to say about these:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31683

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31684

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31705

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31705

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31739

First of all, much love and peace to all of my Brothers and Sisters of Destee.com's Forum. Especially to my Brother Pan who extended the invitation to join.....you are loved Papi!

The genetic make-up of the people of the island of Boriken (what Puerto Rico was called back in a day), is a mix of Taino Indian, African Slave (who were taken to the island to work the land), and Spaniard. Our people are very diverse as far as our "look" is concerned. Our family get-togethers are quite interesting as we have white blue-eyed/green-eyed kin as well as black/mulato.

Sadly, there are some of my Boricua Brothers and Sisters who only embrace part of their history and culture. Some refuse to accept the Spaniard, Taino or African, but the bottom line is this....like or not....we are who and what we are and nothing or no one can change that.

It is true that the Spaniards practically eradicated the Taino Indian off the face of the earth, which is why the Tainos fled Boriken and ended up in Cuba, Dominican Republic and elsewhere. It is true that the Spaniards raped many Taino women and African women and fathered MANY children. But out of all that, came my people......my beautiful people.....black, white and beautiful brown and I embrace and celebrate them.

I have been wrong before, so I'm probably wrong now. But I do not consider latinos my brothers the closest latino that I would consider my brother would be cuban, a few others but it has been my experience. That at least Mexicans and I have jnown quite a few think they are better than us they discriminate against us in all forms. I have seen it experienced it on many occasions so as far as the Mexican is concerned to me he is mot my brother, as far as the Dominican republic there would be so question there, But my concern or where I would focus my energys would be Jamaica Haite, West indies, Trinadad and the likes these people I view as my brothers Peace

First of all, much love and peace to all of my Brothers and Sisters of Destee.com's Forum. Especially to my Brother Pan who extended the invitation to join.....you are loved Papi!

Glad to have you aboard TainaMacu, thanks for sharing your opinion!

I have been wrong before, so I'm probably wrong now. But I do not consider latinos my brothers the closest latino that I would consider my brother would be cuban, a few others but it has been my experience. That at least Mexicans and I have jnown quite a few think they are better than us they discriminate against us in all forms. I have seen it experienced it on many occasions so as far as the Mexican is concerned to me he is mot my brother, as far as the Dominican republic there would be so question there, But my concern or where I would focus my energys would be Jamaica Haite, West indies, Trinadad and the likes these people I view as my brothers Peace

Kwaku Bendele:

I'm impressed that you have kept an "open mind", even though you have an opinion (that most Latinos are not your brothers). This is needed when exploring other cultures. The African influence is pretty obvious in Cuba; however, it also exist in other areas of "Latin" America. I encourage you to look at the website links (posted by Isaiah) that I gave to brother Dominican Azuca. These in addition to my thread about Afro-Latinos, will illustrate that they African Diaspora includes much of South America!

I just had to comment on this thread because I had a situation in reference to this. I live in dc and I attend howard university. I am a dominican woman and since I also happened to be dark-skinned than I am perceived to be an african american by the majority of people at my school as well as every where else. When I started to date an african american man everything was find until it was discovered (mysteriously after I shared my heritage with him) that I happened to be latina (or it might have just been jealousy, I don't know) . I was all of a sudden being frowned down upon and being treated unfairly by certain black females that I thought were my friends and of course others that I didn't know. I do not at all go around society hiding the fact that I'm latina just because I happened to have a majority of black people around me. I just don't feel the need to say Hi, I'm Shania and I'm dominican, porque' y para que', it's not neccesary, but I definately will tell you with pride if asked or it comes up in conversation. I asked myself why getare they getting upset with me when I am going through the same everyday struggles as they do in society. White people only see my color so why they think I have an advantage over them? I was later told by my boyfriend (at that the time) who was apparently the cause for drama, that they were just jealous because I have "good hair" ( what is good hair anyway?)and I speak another language. I later found out that it was his ignorance that made them hate me, he was the one going around talking about me to them as if I was better and I have seen this being done too many times by some african american men, then I pose my question to them and ask, why? ~~Debemos todo el eah del amor otro~~

I am a dominican woman and since I also happened to be dark-skinned than I am perceived to be an african american by the majority of people at my school as well as every where else. When I started to date an african american man everything was find until it was discovered (mysteriously after I shared my heritage with him) that I happened to be latina (or it might have just been jealousy, I don't know) . I was all of a sudden being frowned down upon and being treated unfairly by certain black females that I thought were my friends and of course others that I didn't know. I was later told by my boyfriend (at that the time) who was apparently the cause for drama, that they were just jealous because I have "good hair" ( what is good hair anyway?)and I speak another language. I later found out that it was his ignorance that made them hate me, he was the one going around talking about me to them as if I was better and I have seen this being done too many times by some african american men, then I pose my question to them and ask, why? ~~Debemos todo el eah del amor otro~~

I'm sorry to hear this DominicanChula1, but as you already stated your former boyfriend was ignorant (as were the women who you were having conflicts with). There will always be those who look at other cultures with ignorance or fear. Hopefully with education and increasing awareness about other cultures (particularly other African decendant cultures)....these ignorant encounters will be fewer & further between. This education (making African diasporians aware of our connection), is one of the major goals of this particular website. Since this is your 1st post, I am glad to welcome you to Destee.com!

Thank you panafrica, I was actually introduced to this site by you, and you will laugh when i tell you why. I was reading the thread on bv about the infamous "DGC" nonsense and I admired the way you handled yourself with that deranged brother. I also thank destee so that maybe individuals who are lost may learn, grow and find their way.~ Much amor~

If a Black Brother or Sister is with a Latino Brother or Sister ...
aren't they still with an "African?"

In a manner of speaking....

In general, do Latinos consider themselves Africans?

If you consider practicing time honored traditions that originate from wherever on the African continent their ancestors came from then, yes, they just may consider themselves African if, and I stress the word, they understand that these traditions didn't just "appear" to the natives of the islands they now populate....

In terms of embracing the darker aspects of being African, from the color of the darkest African skin to the darkest deeds done by Africans, Latinos wouldn't consider doing this for one second....

In general, do Blacks consider Latinos Africans?

Unfortunately, we indeed consider Latinos as being African because we subjectively are stuck on the literal definition of the word which would then encompass EVERYONE ever born on the planet Earth....

Are Latinos Africans too?

Yes, as are ALL human beings, but if they do not consider themselves African then they are not no matter what the dictionary definition says....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The opposite of a true statement is a false statement, but the opposite of a profound truth may very well be another profound truth."

-Neil Bohls-

Thank you panafrica, I was actually introduced to this site by you, and you will laugh when i tell you why. I was reading the thread on bv about the infamous "DGC" nonsense and I admired the way you handled yourself with that deranged brother. I also thank destee so that maybe individuals who are lost may learn, grow and find their way.~ Much amor~

Again glad to have you aboard DominicanChula1!

I just had to comment on this thread because I had a situation in reference to this. I live in dc and I attend howard university. I am a dominican woman and since I also happened to be dark-skinned than I am perceived to be an african american by the majority of people at my school as well as every where else. When I started to date an african american man everything was find until it was discovered (mysteriously after I shared my heritage with him) that I happened to be latina (or it might have just been jealousy, I don't know) . I was all of a sudden being frowned down upon and being treated unfairly by certain black females that I thought were my friends and of course others that I didn't know. I do not at all go around society hiding the fact that I'm latina just because I happened to have a majority of black people around me. I just don't feel the need to say Hi, I'm Shania and I'm dominican, porque' y para que', it's not neccesary, but I definately will tell you with pride if asked or it comes up in conversation. I asked myself why getare they getting upset with me when I am going through the same everyday struggles as they do in society. White people only see my color so why they think I have an advantage over them? I was later told by my boyfriend (at that the time) who was apparently the cause for drama, that they were just jealous because I have "good hair" ( what is good hair anyway?)and I speak another language. I later found out that it was his ignorance that made them hate me, he was the one going around talking about me to them as if I was better and I have seen this being done too many times by some african american men, then I pose my question to them and ask, why? ~~Debemos todo el eah del amor otro~~


Maybe I should read more but do you consider yourself of African descent

By the way I aint mad at cha

Many years ago, I found it interesting that the World Almanac called Puerto Ricans an Afro-Hispanic people. “I hate to say it this way”, but it is sad that Whites have a clearer view of the African Diaspora than most Africans descendants in the western hemisphere.

I once had a very close female friend who was Puerto Rican, and was about as white as you could get. She never referred to herself as a white Hispanic, but as a woman of color. Also, she embraced her African culture very strongly.

African-based cultures in the “so-called” New World have been treated a certain way historically, regardless of their variety of color and ethnicity. It’s time that African Diasporians wise-up and embrace the power of their African identity. No matter what your complexion or language is.


Ashe!

Brother Sun:cool:

Does Rosie Perez acknowledge African heritage? It does look apparent in her face.


Many years ago, I found it interesting that the World Almanac called Puerto Ricans an Afro-Hispanic people. “I hate to say it this way”, but it is sad that Whites have a clearer view of the African Diaspora than most Africans descendants in the western hemisphere.

I once had a very close female friend who was Puerto Rican, and was about as white as you could get. She never referred to herself as a white Hispanic, but as a woman of color. Also, she embraced her African culture very strongly.

African-based cultures in the “so-called” New World have been treated a certain way historically, regardless of their variety of color and ethnicity. It’s time that African Diasporians wise-up and embrace the power of their African identity. No matter what your complexion or language is.


Ashe!

Brother Sun:cool:

Hello Fam...I am back in business!! Wow, I have just spent the longest time reading these posts.! Welcome hermanos y hermanas nuevos (new brothers and sisters)! There is a wonderful, new book out by Dr. Marta Moreno Vega (a black puerto rican sister) called "When The Spirits Dance Mambo". This is a sister that wants to unite the Afro-Latino AND African-American communities. She is outstanding. Please take the time to read this book. I am reading it now!! My mami bought me her first book called "Altar Of My Soul" upon my initiation into Lucumi (Santeria). That book brought me to tears!! I encourage all of my brothers and sisters here at Destee.com to read these books!! We can build on them later!!


Besos y abrazos (Kisses and Hugs)!!
Kika
Que Dios Se bendigan!! God Bless!
:luvv:

Hello Fam...I am back in business!! Wow, I have just spent the longest time reading these posts.! Welcome hermanos y hermanas nuevos (new brothers and sisters)! There is a wonderful, new book out by Dr. Marta Moreno Vega (a black puerto rican sister) called "When The Spirits Dance Mambo". This is a sister that wants to unite the Afro-Latino AND African-American communities. She is outstanding. Please take the time to read this book. I am reading it now!! My mami bought me her first book called "Altar Of My Soul" upon my initiation into Lucumi (Santeria). That book brought me to tears!! I encourage all of my brothers and sisters here at Destee.com to read these books!! We can build on them later!!

Welcome back Qbanmami! Thank you for the book suggestion, I'll have to check them out.

Welcome back Qbanmami! Thank you for the book suggestion, I'll have to check them out.

Glad to be back!! Thank you!!

Does Rosie Perez acknowledge African heritage? It does look apparent in her face.

http://www.celebrity-pictures-world.com/pics/r/rosie-perez/rosie-perez-005.jpg

I don't know about African, but the Black Latino's are of African descent, so it'd be the same question posed to West Indian/American Blacks. I haven't read this forum yet. What annoys me is when people think all Puerto Ricans have to have Black blood, it's like assuming all White Americans have some Black blood ( 20% do ) just because Africans were shipped there and there was 'miscegenation' that took place doesn't mean everyone has to have some African ancestry and what would that mean considering they're primarily non-African descended anyways?

Puerto Ricans were once denoted as an Afro-Hispanic population, in the World Almanac. And Black women were the mothers of many first-generation Puerto Rican colonial settlers; because the Native population was rapidly wiped out in the early years of European conquest and Spanish women were said, not to immigrate to Puerto Rico in any significant numbers for centuries. (I read this fact some years ago, in a book borrowed from a Puerto Rican friend)

You cannot tell if a person is of “African descent” just based on how they look phenotypically. But how they view themselves racially or ethnically, and what they call themselves, is a whole different question and topic.

Puerto Ricans were once denoted as an Afro-Hispanic population, in the World Almanac. And Black women were the mothers of many first-generation Puerto Rican colonial settlers; because the Native population was rapidly wiped out in the early years of European conquest and Spanish women were said, not to immigrate to Puerto Rico in any significant numbers for centuries. (I read this fact some years ago, in a book borrowed from a Puerto Rican friend)

You cannot tell if a person is of “African descent” just based on how they look phenotypically. But how they view themselves racially or ethnically, and what they call themselves, is a whole different question and topic.

Did you mean you can tell? Whatever they view themselves, if they'reir the descendents of African slaves then they're of African descent, that's reality.

I probably should have used the phrase, “…You cannot ALWAYS tell if a person is of “African descent” just based on how they look phenotypically”, but my statement still means what it said. To be of African descent, is a person that has some type of African ancestor (not to be confused with evolutions _Out of Africa theory). Even a very Caucasian looking person (who identifies as white) can have African blood in their veins. I was talking in a literal sense.

Adam Clayton Powell Jr. or Dr. Charles Drew were born as, raised and identified themselves as African Americans (African descent) but both looked very much like Caucasians. But to not confuse the issue, Jennifer Lopez (Puerto Rican) has noticeable phenotypically African features, but how she views herself is another issue.

I probably should have used the phrase, “…You cannot ALWAYS tell if a person is of “African descent” just based on how they look phenotypically”, but my statement still means what it said. To be of African descent, is a person that has some type of African ancestor (not to be confused with evolutions _Out of Africa theory). Even a very Caucasian looking person (who identifies as white) can have African blood in their veins. I was talking in a literal sense.

Adam Clayton Powell Jr. or Dr. Charles Drew were born as, raised and identified themselves as African Americans (African descent) but both looked very much like Caucasians. But to not confuse the issue, Jennifer Lopez (Puerto Rican) has noticeable phenotypically African features, but how she views herself is another issue.

I'm talking about primarily African descended people, not people who may have SOME African ancestry. You can generally tell who's Black or not. Adam Clayton Powell Jr. and Dr. Charles Drew were identified as Black Americans because they lived in an era when the one drop rule was the unquestionable law of the land. They also had much European ancestry,Black or not, so it's not like they were f.o.b from Nigeria or the Congo ( what I mean is 'that explains it' ). I can't see any African features in J.Lo, her features look TAINO to me.

because the Native population was rapidly wiped out in the early years of European conquest

They (Tainos) blended in. They did not disappear and are a part of the gene pool which now exists.

"What annoys me is when people think all Puerto Ricans have to have Black blood, it's like assuming all White Americans have some Black blood ( 20% do ) just because Africans were shipped there and there was 'miscegenation' that took place doesn't mean everyone has to have some African ancestry and what would that mean considering they're primarily non-African descended anyways?"

Puerto Ricans and other Caribbean Latinos(as) are a mixed people 500 years later, so the blood is present there regardless of how one looks. Of less than a million people on that island before 1900 where the population was condsidered 50% African, where do you think those Africans went? Into the gene pool of their people. It is already a part of their genetic make-up. There's nothing you or I can do about that. People will define themselves as their upbringing and education of self will allow them to.

Also, as I have said before, Tainos didn't die out, they blended in, as did the Africans. History is history and it cannot be reversed to suit the mental and emotional needs of some people who think they are the only ones on the planet who are of ____________ descent.

Just because A large portion of the african people was bred out doesn't mean they're all african, which the majority clearly isn't.

Absolutely.... that's why they're "Latino", as it encompassess ALL the above.... bred in. It's how they choose to identify themselves and that is quite ALRIGHT. To each his own. Furthermore, I don't believe that discussing it amongst ourselves without their legitimate input means that they will simply stop realizing they're culture is a hybrid mix of more than just African or Taino or Spanish. I don't think they're losing any sleep over issues that serve only to separate people by false racial classifications (created by the pains of Indigenous or African enslavement).

ie. Zoe Saldaña, a Dominican sister, who is quite comfortable in her own skin, that she can easily play an African-American role and then turn around and play a Latina, which is how SHE defines herself....simply Zoe, not just a black Latina. And, that is also HER perogative. It doesn't mean that she doesn't acknowledge WHO or WHAT she is, just that she is a HUMAN BEING..... first.

Absolutely.... that's why they're "Latino", as it encompassess ALL the above.... bred in. It's how they choose to identify themselves and that is quite ALRIGHT. To each his own. Furthermore, I don't believe that discussing it amongst ourselves without their legitimate input means that they will simply stop realizing they're culture is a hybrid mix of more than just African or Taino or Spanish. I don't think they're losing any sleep over issues that serve only to separate people by false racial classifications (created by the pains of Indigenous or African enslavement).

ie. Zoe Saldaña, a Dominican sister, who is quite comfortable in her own skin, that she can easily play an African-American role and then turn around and play a Latina, which is how SHE defines herself....simply Zoe, not just a black Latina. And, that is also HER perogative. It doesn't mean that she doesn't acknowledge WHO or WHAT she is, just that she is a HUMAN BEING..... first.

Whatever Zoe Saldana identifies as she is Dominican and racially she is Black/of African descent. Latino is an ethnic designation. Some primarily non-Black Latino's have some African ancestry just like 20% of White Americans. I have to type this quickly.

Again, to each his own. Someone's opinion doesn't change how a person chooses to view themselves and the world they live in. They will always look upon themselves as THEY see themselves. Some people don't necessarily care what the rest of the world thinks of them.

from MTV.com:

MTV: With roots there [Dominican Republic], do you identify as a black Latina?

Saldaña: Why the hell do we have to sub-categorize? I know who I am. I'm Zoë. I'm done.


Dominicans aren't all African either. They are mixed people. It is YOUR perspective that sees "brown" and figures that (in your U.S. 'one-drop' way of thinking) she is just Black. I am sure if a Native American role popped up, she'd be right there going for the part. She doesn't see herself (as evidenced by her commentary) as simply one thing. More power to her and all those who think like that. They are not trapped by the "pick one side or another, but not both" mentality. Many other Latinos celebrate all these different aspects of themselves without caring what certain narrow-minded tend to think of them "racially". They are perfectly happy celebrating themselves as ONE WHOLE and not just as pieces. I think that is wonderful. Many of us, in particular, tend to look at Latinos and claim that they are not this and not that....."Oh, you think you Black."...... "Oh, you think you White.", etc. But, whatever. Life isn't about the Hatfields vs.the McCoys. Maybe some Whites think that way, and even some of us Black people lash back with the same madness..... but, life is meant to be lived without shoving people into neat little categories just to serve our own selfish interests. It's bad enough that everyone wants to remain divided into specific racial groups, rather than allowing themselves to be affected by the differences that exist across the globe. Some Latinos use the ethnic/racial designation of "LATINO" to come together as a people and that is alright. I support them in that endeavor to define their nation, just as they respect us as AA's and the definition we built up for ourselves.

Again, to each his own. Someone's opinion doesn't change how a person chooses to view themselves and the world they live in. They will always look upon themselves as THEY see themselves. Some people don't necessarily care what the rest of the world thinks of them.

from MTV.com:

MTV: With roots there [Dominican Republic], do you identify as a black Latina?

Saldaña: Why the hell do we have to sub-categorize? I know who I am. I'm Zoë. I'm done.


Dominicans aren't all African either. They are mixed people. It is YOUR perspective that sees "brown" and figures that (in your U.S. 'one-drop' way of thinking) she is just Black. I am sure if a Native American role popped up, she'd be right there going for the part. She doesn't see herself (as evidenced by her commentary) as simply one thing. More power to her and all those who think like that. They are not trapped by the "pick one side or another, but not both" mentality. Many other Latinos celebrate all these different aspects of themselves without caring what certain narrow-minded tend to think of them "racially". They are perfectly happy celebrating themselves as ONE WHOLE and not just as pieces. I think that is wonderful. Many of us, in particular, tend to look at Latinos and claim that they are not this and not that....."Oh, you think you Black."...... "Oh, you think you White.", etc. But, whatever. Life isn't about the Hatfields vs.the McCoys. Maybe some Whites think that way, and even some of us Black people lash back with the same madness..... but, life is meant to be lived without shoving people into neat little categories just to serve our own selfish interests. It's bad enough that everyone wants to remain divided into specific racial groups, rather than allowing themselves to be affected by the differences that exist across the globe. S