What are your views on the so called Black Male Shortage? How is the dating scene in your community?

I can't comment on the dating scene, but I can offer some thoughts on the black male shortage. Personally, I don't think there is a shortage of black males, but there is a shortage of black available males. Many brothas do not want to commit. Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk free. As long as he is getting the "fringe" benefits of the relationship without commiting, where is the incentive to take it any further???

Here are just a few things that make black men less available but not necessarily in shortage...

1. Prison...often our brothas are incarcerated for longer periods
of time than others for the same crime. We might be suprised
how many are actually innocent of the crime commited, but
they couldn't afford a good lawyer to prove otherwise. For
example, last year, in Florida the the number of black males
in prison was higher than the number of black males in
Florida's population. To me, this is mind boggling.

2. Homosexuality...need I say more.

3. Another popular method of controlling our numbers other than imprisonment is the push for women's rights via a certain particular political party. Whiles white women rally for a woman's right to take her child's life, we more than they, take part in this act to our very own detriment.
CLiCK Here To Read The Source Of This Information (http://www.prolifeinfo.org/upl10.html)

Abortion Incidence Among Blacks Minority women constitute only about 26% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximatly 36% of the abortions. (Morbidity and mortality Weekly Report, U.S. Censuc Bureau, December 18, 1992, Centers for Disease Control).

This incidence of abortion has resulted in a tremendous loss of life. It has been estimated that since 1973 Black women have had about 10 million abortions. Michael Novak had calculated "Since the number of current living Blacks (in the U.S.) is 31 million, the missing 10 million represents an enourmous loss for, without abortion, America's black community would now number 41 milion persons. It would be 35 percent larger than it is currently. Abortion has swept through the Black community cutting down every fourth member. (Flight of Life's Priorities, Cal Thomas, Washington Times, April 1, 1993, p. G1, G4).

4. Homicide

5. Interracial relationships can not produce black males, moreover, it will always take a black woman and a black man to "produce" another black male or female.

There are more situations that affect the availibility of black males, but I is going to bed rat ni

:)

Yes, the reasons you state are some of the main reasons there are less Black men available.

However, when there is quantity there isn't necessarily quality. This goes for both genders.

Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.

Many men do not want to marry because of the high divorce rate. They state many women just want to get married just to be married, to be taken care of or to have children. The men are afraid of losing their assets in the case of a divorce.

The dating scene in the ATL (metro Atlanta) is what one makes of it. I hear a lot of women complain, but I haven't had a problem dating. The main thing here is pre-screening your dates. A man can pretend to be anything he wants to be to impress women. If a woman isn't impressed by the flash and looks beyond what she sees, it's okay.

well their is a some what shortage to every male is at least 5
females and it get slimmer coz so many taken or not ready to
commit

You said...
Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.


Me say...

I agree, even the farmer can't get any milk if the cow doesn't give it. However, we (females) are not cows. We need love and therefore many of us will give sex to get it. I wish most of us were weak like dat, but oh well. Thumbs up to the sistas who know they are complete with or without a man.

Joyce, well said...

Let us hope our sisters realize that their bodies are precious.

The white feminists twist things to show their truth...most of them were already middle class and privileged.

Feminism...that's part of the problem with Black male and Black female relationships...

Black women better stop listening to the feminists... I believe in equal pay for equal work and all that jazz, but the hard-core feminists are man-haters. They think everything about a man is terrible.:eek:

As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single, I don't believe there's a male shortage, but I do think that timing is off between some men and women. For instance, I consider myself a gentleman and a scholar, have never been arrested and am educated. In college I never had a girlfriend because I didn't have a car or a lot of money. I got a lot of attention from white women and Asian girls for some reason, even though I never dated any of them. Black women were angry with me for that, even though I never did anything and they didn't seem to want me in the first place, so basically I was just stuck.

Fast forward almost four years later. I have a decent job and wear nice clothes. I have an old car, but it's payed for and the only debt I have is my college loans. I help take care of my mother who has had a hard time finding work. I don't drink and have never done drugs. I have no children and I think I'm reasonably decent looking.

All that being said, the only difference between me now and back when I was in college is that women have changed. My personality is the same, my character and integrity are the same. Black women have changed. They want different things when they "grow up". Men like me have a difficult time when we're younger, because we're not "cool" and don't know how to "spit game" and whatever else makes a man attractive to a young black woman.

I turned 27 this past November and quite frankly feel no loyalty to my so called sisters, since I feel none was shown to me. I would eventually like to meet, date and marry a nice black woman, but the fact is at this point women who would have been eligible when I was younger are no longer eligible. They either have kids now (a no-no) or haven't healed from a bad relationship in which they chose the wrong guy on purpose (I've never been sure about what women's problem is in choosing a man...). NOW they want a man like me. The bottom line is, brothers like me woke up and decided not to wait on black women to notice us, so we either decided to be alone, raise our standards even higher, or date a different race. Me, I have decided to raise the bar, and am prepared to be alone if I don't meet the kind of woman I like.

I'm not putting all the blame on black women, because most of the stuff above is true (homosexuality, prison, etc.) but the fact is women tend to make bad choices in men. I know too many women who prefer "thug" types, and would consider young men like myself "lame" (I have been called lame to my face on more than one occasion by black women), or "white" if we do things a little differently. By the time these women (which unfotunately seem to be the majority) wake up, it's too late and there's a bunch of bitter black men who want nothing to do with them for different reasons. That's not the whole issue, but that's a major part of it in my opinion. Men need to carry themselves to a higher standard and women need to make better choices and realize that they are the ones who change, not men. Recognize a good man when he's right in front of you, not when he's far ahead of you and out of reach.

i applaud you

keep reaching for the sky :)

pd

I'm not sure where all the postive Black man have gone, but I sure do pray the they return soon.

their are many around u just unknown yet their are some who
is taken and some seeking !

I do not think there is a shortage of black males in our society they just get over looked,but I do think we need to do better raising our younger generations. Too many people (males and females) these days trying to be so called "Ballas and Shot Callas" instead of being an individual. Society is the fault for some of this. When you turn on the television the only African Americans you see are athletes or rappers. Now the younger generation see them as the definition of "Success". More emphasis needs to be put back on education, too many dropouts these days.
<br>
Also, I understand what Solo is saying, I remember back in highschool when I had no car and barely any money some sistahs didnot want to know me. After I finish university and wearing Brook Brothers' suits, I cannot keep them same girls off of me. Now these same sistahs in church with 3 kids praying for a man. Another thing, what is up with all these women wanting a millionare? I saw on tv a woman wrote a book on how to get a millionare!!!
<br>
Furthermore, sistahs stop settling for Mr.Average and looking for Mr.Perfect. Sistahs have a good man but then be looking for a something better. If he doesnot treat u like the Queen you are kick him to the curb and there is no Mr.Perfect. Fellas need to stop catering to these "hoochie mammas", sex only complicates things.

As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single,>>>>>

There are only 5 Black MEN for every 10 black women. I would definitely call that a shortage. Now take half of those 5 who are no good, on drugs or in the system....then take those 2 or 3 that are EXCLUSIVELY dating white women....lol....I would say there is a shortage Sherlock!!!

It behooves you to say no, because you become the Sultan with a Harem of many. Black women are realizing that they don't want to be in a harem of black men when they can date out and find love/security from ALL men, vice black men only. We are not going to be the smorgasbord leftovers for black men any longer. :D

Whatever, but black women would benefit from making wiser choices with that so called "5 for every 10" and they may do better. Also, who's to say that those "10" are all that. Take half of those 10 and they already have babies out of wedlock, are on drugs themselves, are golddiggers, are strippers/prostitutes, etc. It cuts both ways my dear.

>>>Whatever, but black women would benefit from making wiser choices with that so called "5 for every 10" and they may do better. Also, who's to say that those "10" are all that. >>>

That's not the point "whatever". The point/question is: "is there a black male shortage?". The answer is, "YES". Now if you want to give a list as to what percentage is good or bad, fine...however it only truly works if the ratio is 10 to 10...not for the fact that there are ONLY 5 black men for every 10 black women. There is a shortage!!! Period.

>>>>>>>>>>Take half of those 10 and they already have babies out of wedlock, are on drugs themselves, are golddiggers, are strippers/prostitutes, etc. It cuts both ways my dear.>>>>>>

I never hear white or latino men dog their entire race of women. You must hang in terrible circles since I have rarely met any of the black women such as those that you describe.....I know doctors, lawyers, air traffic controllers, XRAY techs and even electricians......However, lets not discuss the OBVIOUS SHORTAGE OF BLACK MEN...that'S just lotsa whining, waaaaa, waaaa!!! ....Let's discuss the solution, hmmmm?

Solution to the Shortage of black men:

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially.:love:

Okay, then what are black women such as yourself so concerned about then with all the white men with degrees to go around? I mean, the solution should be obvious. Black women who feel like you should just date white men and stop complaining about black men. It's easy and really cuts down on discussions like this, which are fruitless.

************************************************** *
>>>Okay, then what are black women such as yourself so concerned about then with all the white men with degrees to go around? I mean, the solution should be obvious. Black women who feel like you should just date white men and stop complaining about black men. It's easy and really cuts down on discussions like this, which are fruitless.>>>
************************************************** *

Oh it's far from fruitless, I support women. I support white and black women. I definitely don't like to see them used by black men that use them as trophies!! If I could send the DATE OUT article to every black female teenager inthe country...I would....It does not say to exlcude (unlike what many black men do), but it does say to KEEP ALL your options open!! :heart:

It is time black women started dating out. Out as in interracially out. Out as in dating white, Latino, Asian and Native American men out. Here are a few reasons why I think dating interracially isn’t only an option, it’s a necessity:

Kobe Bryant, Tiger “Cablanasian” Woods, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Jason Williams, Scottie Pippen, Cuba Gooding, Quincy Jones (each of the four times he was married), Clarence Thomas (thank goodness), Taye Diggs. All are married to or dating white women. We can’t list the number of brothers in the NBA, the NFL and Major League Baseball who date white women exclusively. There just isn’t enough disk space.

Now imagine if I said Oprah, Halle, Vivica, Jada, Vanessa, Erykah, Lauryn, Whitney, Aretha, Venus and Serena were all married or engaged to white men. Or if I said they only date and marry white men and have no time whatsoever for black men. Imagine if it were true. What would be the response of black men? We all get the picture, and it’s not a good feeling.

The message these men’s dating pattern sends to young black women and black men, as well as the rest of the American public, is that black women are not worthy. They are not beautiful enough; they are not deserving enough.

Interracial dating is all for the good. In the best cases it leads to greater understanding between the races. Let me say this at the outset: I am an interracial dater. My primary criteria are respect, compassion and absolute devotion. The best scenario for humanity is for us to love without regard to race, class or ethnicity.

I have no problem with anyone dating interracially, but what I do consider pathological is the trend wherein many successful black men date and marry only white women. It’s as if having a white woman on one’s arm is a barometer of success for many black men, like winning a playoff ring.

The dating habits of these black men reflect the corrosive effects of slavery on their thinking: The notion that the white woman, the prime jewel in the white man’s crown, is a symbol of status, of achievement, of long-established standards of “beauty.”

It is a sad fact of life that people often attach greater value to things that are desired by others. Right now black men are under the mistaken impression that because black women have refrained from dating interracially in significant numbers, especially since the interracial dating boom in the sixties, the only option available to us is black men. They mistakenly believe that no other group of men desires us. And that if they do want us it is only as an after hour, behind-closed-doors booty call. Of course this is far from the case. Other men have always approached black women.

But because of history and the deleterious effects of slavery, discrimination and racism, we have often been skeptical of their reasons for pursuing us. Understandably, when invited out by white men we wondered if they were just trying to see what it was like with a black girl, if they believed the sex was wilder and more primitive, or if they were motivated by a guilt complex.

Further, the myth, perpetuated by slavery and racism, is that white men don’t see us. Though untrue, this myth makes it harder for us to trust them. The fact is that during slavery, when black humanity was questioned, white men constantly bedded us. It was rape – the assertion of the powerful over the powerless – I agree, but if they desired us when we were deemed the ‘other,’ almost alien, why would they now no longer do so?

It doesn’t make sense. Sure, the efforts of the media, by and large, have been to render the black woman’s beauty, intelligence and desirability invisible, or to make her an unattractive, ball-busting harpy, with strange hair, strange skin, strange ways. But all of that hasn’t stopped white men from wanting us.

In fact, according to US census figures black female-white male marriages have quadrupled in the last decade. There’s a simple reason for this, besides our beauty and intellect: the natural attraction that occurs between human beings given exposure and proximity. Black women are graduating from universities and entering the professional workforce at twice the rate of black men. We are working much more closely with white men. This gives the lie to the black male professional’s excuse that he can’t meet or find black women on his level. More than any other group of women, black female professionals tend to ignore economic disparity when marrying. This also undermines the frequent assertion by black men that black women are more materialistic than white women, and hence unattractive as marrying partners. If we were so materialistic we’d be pursuing and marrying only men on our socio-economic level, frequently white men.

Though the number of black females dating interracially is increasing it is still minimal compared to the number of black men dating and marrying white women. This is because most of us are still suspicious of white men. I say it is time black women stop approaching interracial dating with an inferiority complex; approach it from a position of strength. Believe me, white women do not question why black men desire them. These girls have the ultimate diva complex. We need to take a lesson from them. Believe in our beauty, our intellect and our strength. The same power and instinct we use to weed out the jerks and weirdoes from among black men can be utilized on white, Latino, Asian and Native American men.

Let’s face facts: there is a limited pool of black men. White women have been wandering into our section of the pool for a very long time. It is time we wandered into theirs. There’s no reason to keep the pool color-coded. Jim Crow is dead in the toilets, at the restaurants, and it’s about time it was buried when it comes to dating, sex and marriage.

Until black men see that black women are wanted and desired by other men, until they see that we have options and are not entirely dependent on them for our emotional, spiritual and physical needs, many of them will continue to treat us like second-class citizens, the leftovers at the smorgasbord, the dish that nobody wants.

It is time we black women reasserted our selves. Start dating out. Don’t do it out of revenge. Don’t do it to teach them a lesson. To do so would only cheapen and debase us. Do date out so we can broaden our options and our horizons. Do date out because the human family is a smorgasbord of possibility. Do date out to strengthen our respect from, and our future with, black men. Let’s value ourselves. Let’s free ourselves.

Maxine Smith....free lance author NYC

We spend a lot of time talking about how many women there are for every man,instead of how many good women there are for every good man.

Negative, there IS a shortage of MEN!! There are only 5 black men to every 10 black women...Check it out!! You are incorrect. I am not talking about how all men are capable of dogging our women. I am fully aware of that!! I would much rather weed through men that are only after the punani than try to figure out if a black man's own color makes his skin crawl!!!! At least with white men, I know they are not with me SEKING STATUS!! Man, that is a nice feeling. I could never be sure with MANY (not all) BALCK MEN. LIGHTSKINNED BLACK WOMEN AND WHITE WOMEN are not on this planet to be used by self hating black men. You assume to much cookie!! I am with a man that flies F-18's while you eat wheaties and watch Scooby Doo on Saturday mornings!! Don't turn this into what my choices were. YOU DON'T KNOW ME KNEE GROW!! Do you know me???? THERFORE YOUR STATEMENT OF FACT IS BULL ****. You are a typical black man that thinks black women should just hang out and be alone while black men (since the 60's) have been dating white women in droves!!! In massive numbers....they don't marry them like white men marry us...but black men have been dating out in massive numbers. 50% of all black men that make over 50K are married to NON BLACK WOMEN!!! These women are not getting good men for the most part. Many of them are empty pits. This empty pit phrase was from a white girlfriend of mine that had a run in with one of the BLACK MEN!!!

Solution to the Shortage of black men:

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially

Here is a great exceprt for those of you that try to BLAME BLACK WOMEN BECAUSE YOU SEE YOUR REFLECTION IN BLACK WOMEN...A REFLECTION THAT YOU CAN'T BEAR BECAUE MANY OF YOU ARE FILLED WITH SELF HATRED..STOP BLAMING THE BLACK WOMAN..WE ARE GETTING IT...WE ARE GOING TO DATE OUT MORE AND MORE...LOL....Maybe you black men are getting a little taste of what we black women have to put up with from you on a day to day basis. We have to put up with racisms, sexisms, colorisms and even the hatred that you have for us on a day to day basis. Look at you, complaining now that the tables are turned. You get on t.v. and call us hoes sluts *******. You try to hold us back in every way you can when it comes to us trying to achieve. You would rather anyone do good for themselves but us. You try your best to tear us down emotionally. How dare you get upset now that you're getting a taste of what you dish out. It takes a heartless person to do everything in your power to tear a woman down the way you black men do. You ask us to stand by you and support you emotionally, who have you ever stood by and supported emotionally, certainly not black women! I suggest you take a look in the mirror before you point the finger at black women. You say we are difficult and make bad choices...WHY? Because we have been faithfully CHOOSING YOU!! We have been here as you head out to the suburbs and leave your community. Don't blame us, you started this mass exodus, and guess what??? Black women are going to finish it....White men over here!! white men over here!!!! LOL...We'll be just fine!!

It's easy (and glib) to blame the "sexual revolution" of the 1960s for the breakdown of the family, but a lot more went into that breakdown than baby boomer hedonism, feminism and the Pill. In search of "root causes," James Q. Wilson, in his new book, 'The Marriage Problem," observes that a man shortage has been a major contributing factor.

When there are more men than women, men work harder to please women, showing off desirable characteristics such as steadiness, reliability and sexual restraint. What one man doesn't offer, another man will. When there's a shortage of men, women are less demanding, indulging irresponsible behavior and taking on sexual liaisons with men who aren't desirable as husbands.

"In the first case, women have a lot of bargaining power and so find it easier to get men to marry and stay with them," writes Mr. Wilson. "In the second case, women have less bargaining power and so must settle for what they can get."

In 1970, there were considerably fewer unmarried white men between the ages of 23 to 27 than white women aged 20 to 24. The deficit grew worse for unmarried women as they got older. A gap between eligible men and women persisted into the 1980s and 1990s, especially as women married later. This kind of ratio affects cultural mores on a local level, too. New York and Washington have many more single women than men. (You can judge for yourself how that affects behavior.) Rock Springs, Wyo., on the other hand, has a major shortage of women.

The disparity between the sexes has played out differently for blacks and whites. Slavery, of course, determined which black men could stay with their families and naturally contributed to family breakdown. Today, high numbers of young black men are in prison, and higher rates of alcoholism and drug abuse among black men than among black women make them a scarce commodity. Women like to marry "up" - or at least move laterally - and many more black women than black men attend college, further reducing marriage possibilities for ambitious black women.

The cycle that begins with a man shortage when men and women are in their 20s creates a momentum all its own, and the shortage collides with other social issues as they grow older. So what to do? There is no panacea, but a robust debate on the virtues of marriage, the importance of family stability and two-parent families for children as well as seeking ways to bolster the family unit can't hurt.

Turning things around, as hard as it is to do, may be easier than moving to Rock Springs.

At least with white men, I know they are not with me SEEKING STATUS!!
Oh really? They arent seek sex either I suppose? Perhaps you can explain what is it about you that a black man would have his status enhanced by your presence?>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would much rather weed through the men that are just after sex than have the additional burden of weeding through black men that HATE themselves!! Light skinned black women and white women were not put on this earth to be the Black Man's so called TROPHY. I am not going to break it down to you, you know exactly what I am talking about.

You can check the US census Bureau for the stats on men that make over 50K....the fact is that 50% of black men that make this amount do not marry black women. Have you ever been to California. I dare you to hit the suburbs and tell me how many black men in anything nicer than an Accord have a black woman in the passenger seat. LOL. Black men have issues in this country and all they can do is blame the black woman. The figures don't lie. There are plenty of men to go around as long as black women DATE OUT. If they don't date out, they will more than likely be alone as black men continue on their misguided smorgasbord.

I have to agree with dbaraka. What happened to equating the
number of suitable women for all the suitable men? We have
to stop factoring "black" into the equation like being "black" is
somekind of disease. We need to become more comfortable in our own skin and stop thinking white is right and black isn't about jack. Regardless of who you choose to marry, focus on
making progress toward achieving equality so that who we
choose to date, where we choose to live, where we goto school, and where we choose to do business is suitable for everyone in
the general public irregardless of their color, creed, gender, or
religion.



;)

pd

>>I can assume you are either light skinned or white. >>

You CAN assume that I am black. How's that? Is that ok with you? Thanks ....

>>Perhaps you should go to the main library in your city and check the stats from the 1890s to now.>>>

1890's???? LOL, huh? I am talking about the interracial dating boom that has been happening since the 1960's. Black men are 3 times more likely to marry interracially than black women. That statistic is only in reference to marriage, nothing is cited for 'relationships outside of marriage' (relationships with no marriage, since black men don't marry as often as white). The farther West you head in the country, it is very evident to anyone with VISION. Why is the number of BM/WF so disproportionate??? Even though black women are in the workplace to a greater extent than black men with more opportunity to date interracially. Black women have historically been very loyal to the "BLACK MAN" until these most recent years. It seems to me that you need to ask black men the queston of the DIRE CONSEQUENCES they faced when they looked at white women. However, I think that is a hateful question, because this is 2003!! If an IR is done FOR LOVE, who cares??? Love is love is love!! Hello?? Don't ask me the question of the past dire consequences, I exclusively dated black men for a decade. Although I never had to deal with cheaters, I was aware of the emptiness of many of them (not all). Consequently, many of them are on their 3rd or 4th white wives.

>>>> I think you will find that any men going that way is a recent phenomenon. >>>>

Since the 1960's....okkkay, that is recent in some people's eyes. As soon as the flood gates were open however, black men were sure there AT THE READY, huh? Black women didn't flood the gates looking for white men, but black men sure did. lol

>>>>Moreover, you seem to forget the historic dire consequences that black men suffered for even looking at white women. Or maybe you're conveniently ignoring them. >>>>>

A question more suitably suited for your fellow brethren, not me. I am very aware of history. I am very aware that 40% of black children still live in poverty as black men have fleed to the suburbs with their trophy white girl (not all). I am aware that black children in Boston and South Central have to share books!! All of this as the black man leaves 70% of black household to be run by black WOMEN. Oh, I am aware and have a GOOD memory. :)

Some Black women turn Black men off with their negativity and their need to control every aspect of the relationship. Many Black women pray for a man but don't know the first thing about getting and keeping one. I happen to know many Black men who prefer Black women.

And some of those men didn't leave their children, they were pushed out of their children's lives. Most Black women tend to be emotional when discussing issues instead of being logical.

>>>Some Black women turn Black men off with their negativity and their need to control every aspect of the relationship. Many Black women pray for a man but don't know the first thing about getting and keeping one. I happen to know many Black men who prefer Black women. >>>>

None of the black women I know...Improve your social circle!! However, you sound like a white woman that has been fed a load of crap by her black husband.....hmmm?

>>>And some of those men didn't leave their children, they were pushed out of their children's lives. Most Black women tend to be emotional when discussing issues instead of being logical.>>

Yeah right!! LOL...whatever. Again, your social circle needs imroving. The black women I know are awesome professionals and together women!!

The women I refer to are not in my social circle. I work as a volunteer so I see cases like this all the time in all economic and educational backgrounds.

I am definitely a Black women. However, I am an enlightened one who sees beyond a narrow view. The women in my "social circle" don't have a problem with our men. The secret? We know how to select a "Man" and not a "facade of a man". We also realize that the differences we have from men are not weaknesses but our strengths. We love our men and support them as they do us.

If you mean by being a professional and together woman, one that is successful in her career and is actively involved. Those qualities do not always give a women the necessary mental resources to maintain a healthy relationship.

Some Black women are so afraid of being controlled by a Black man they sabotage their relationships. You don't think the White man controls you? You don't think the White woman controls you? They want the Black man and the Black woman to clash so we won't notice how they further erode our families.

Sisters better take notice...there will be more women looking at the Black man...namely the latino women.

>>>I am definitely a Black women. However, I am an enlightened one who sees beyond a narrow view. The women in my "social circle" don't have a problem with our men. The secret? We know how to select a "Man" and not a "facade of a man". We also realize that the differences we have from men are not weaknesses but our strengths. We love our men and support them as they do us. >>>>>

Many black men do not support black women. I know screwed up black and white women, that's not the point. The point is, is there is a shortage of available black men and black women are starting to date out mor and more.

>>>If you mean by being a professional and together woman, one that is successful in her career and is actively involved. Those qualities do not always give a women the necessary mental resources to maintain a healthy relationship.>>>

They are all in very successful relationships with black, white and hispanic men.

>>Some Black women are so afraid of being controlled by a Black man they sabotage their relationships. You don't think the White man controls you? You don't think the White woman controls you? They want the Black man and the Black woman to clash so we won't notice how they further erode our families. >>>>

Noone controls me, I don't conform that easily. The black man is doing that all by himself. STOP blaming white people for ALL of our problems.

>>>Sisters better take notice...there will be more women looking at the Black man...namely the latino women.>>>

So?....black men line up for me, I find them distateful since most are only after trophies. Many of these women that get these men are getting empty pits...woes me that they take these "QUALITY" men of the market..lol....Anyway, I have never found other women threatening, not in the least. I support women, even black female "bootlickers" have some redeeming qualities.

Black women are not standby equipment.

There are millions more unattached black women than unattached black men. Deducting from that total those black men unavailable due to substance abuse, unemployment, incarceration, involvement with white women and homosexuality results in a bleak demographic landscape for black women. Black men, certain types, will play their demographic advantage to the hilt by treating many black women as standby equipment. They play the system for what it's worth, and the pool of unattached black women is the system they play.

All too many black men choose to take on the role of sultans on the black social stage, the privileged few among the unattached many!! Black women are their standby-equipment harem girls, from whom they expect appropriate tributes. Being put on standby status means that the polygmaous sultan deems yo to be a harem girl whose services are not required for the moment. To wait on the shelf until his whim deems otherwise. Should the sultan tire of one harem girl, there are plenty more, and not all are black. Sultans cannot uderstand why any harem girl would find fault with their system. Their view is that harem membership is ample reward enough and black women should be gratelful. You have no LEVERAGE over these sultans, because they have no incentive to change. There's nothing to be gained. don't be fooled by the ficticious carrots they dangle to induce black women to pull their social lives along. They offer nothing of substance. SHOULD YOU LIMIT YOUR SOCIALIZING TO CERTAIN TYPES OF BLACK SULTANS, your only rewards will be empty promises and endless reassurances, as far into the future as the eye can see. Black women that make the mistake of taking on the role of standby equipment status leave themselves no choice but to contort their lives to fill the role expectations that go with being a spare tire.

Standby equipment is a role with no room for emotional growth. Do not trim yourself down to suit a sultan's lowly expectations. Standby status is a game you are predestined to lose. Closing your mind to reality in front of you blcoks you from moving beyond standby status. Walk out and find a game with better odds.

Apparently, you don't run in the right social circle as far as the men that approach you. I know plenty of educated (and education doesn't necessarily have to be formal, it can be self-education), upright, responsible brothers who would love to have a "good" woman. You don't think Black women want "Trophy" men? Ha! You should hear some of the things I have heard from professional, educated women in the ATL. Most won't even look at a brother if he doesn't make six figures.

I don't play the Sultan game...never have...never will. To be respected, you must command respect and live respectfully.

Apparently, you don't run in the right social circle as far as the men that approach you. I know plenty of educated (and education doesn't necessarily have to be formal, it can be self-education), upright, responsible brothers who would love to have a "good" woman. >>>

Did I ever say ALL, goofball.....you are not very creative...I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up the black men I have known. Call me bitter too....lol...You would really be creative there. I also know good black men...I know black men that have notice the same things about black men. So do you!

>>You don't think Black women want "Trophy" men? Ha! You should hear some of the things I have heard from professional, educated women in the ATL. Most won't even look at a brother if he doesn't make six figures. >>>

Again, not in my circles, but I am sure they do exist. However I am positive it is not to the extent of the black male self hatred. These women are after GREEN....White or black mean nothing...It is GREEN. Black men will leave a professional woman on a military base overseas to hook up and marry a bruised up skinny h o of the streets. Ever been to Canada with a group of BLACK men???...LOL

I don't play the Sultan game...never have...never will. To be respected, you must command respect and live respectfully.

Never say never...:)

There, there...let's not result in name-calling. We can agree to disagree... I can assure you, a goof-ball I am not and I refuse to get my hands dirty.

Oh, a woman can choose not to play the Sultan game...believe me...

Young women walk by in tight skirts, designer tops, high heels and makeup -- looking like they're going to a club instead of calculus.

But when you're at a school with nearly 3,600 women and only 1,500 men, some women don't want to miss an opportunity to look their best and catch the eyes of some of the campus' high-demand males.

"It will for a lot of guys," acknowledges freshman Naqwanna Taylor, "but I don't think those are the ones you're looking for."

Around the country, colleges are becoming increasingly more female, but the imbalance is even greater at historically black colleges such as Clark, which is 71 percent women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some students say it creates a campus culture in which women desperately try to attract college-educated black males, and men act like commitment-phobic "dawgs" because they can pick and choose from a surplus of women.

Historically black colleges:

Clark Atlanta (Atlanta) -- 71 percent female, 29 percent male

Morris Brown (Atlanta) -- 61 percent female, 39 percent male

Xavier University (New Orleans) -- 70 percent female, 30 percent male

Howard University (Washington) -- 64 percent female, 36 percent male

Other colleges:

University of Georgia:

All students -- 56.5 percent female, 43.5 percent male

Black students -- 66.5 female, 33.5 percent male

Florida State University:

All students -- 56 percent female, 44 percent male

Black students -- 66 percent female, 34 percent male

Georgia State:

All students -- 60 percent female, 40 percent male

Black students -- 72 percent female, 28 percent male

The Associated Press

"It's interesting, because I think African American women are the only group of women that are more resistant to [dating outside their race] than any other group. And yet, you all are the pool who probably have the least options," Chapman says. "You find that you're more committed to men who are not all that committed to you, which is really ironic to me."

Originally posted by morenaseis
... Did I ever say ALL, goofball ...Morenaseis ... please refrain from calling other Members out of their name ... it's not allowed here. Thanks.

:heart:

Destee

A few years ago I met an attractive black man in Los Angeles. "I usually don't date black women," he told me, "but I find you so intriguing." I guess he thought I should be flattered, but instead I was quite disturbed. Rather than see me as his equal, he saw me as some sort of scientific oddity.

An AOL website claims that most white females that make over 50K a year don't want to date black men. That's probably true, but I'm not particularly surprised or concerned. As a black woman, I'm more concerned with black men who refuse to date other black women.

Is love blind?

A few years ago, I met a very attractive, articulate, professional black man at a charity event. I was so excited to meet him that night that I even added a comment about him during the speech I gave later that evening.

Following the speech, I eagerly approached him at his table. He smiled and we talked for a moment before he politely introduced me to his girlfriend. I was disappointed that he was involved in a relationship, and to be honest, I was even more disappointed that his partner was a very, very average looking white woman.

Despite my disappointment, we exchanged business cards and agreed to stay in touch, which we did. Over the years, my new friend told me about the difficulties of his relationship. His girlfriend apparently had repeatedly cheated on him, which actually surprised me. From my perspective, the girlfrien definintley had the better end of the deal. She had no reason to be cheating on my friend.

For the life of me, I could not understand why my friend was so upset about the end of this relationship. From my narrow perspective, he should have been happy to be free to find a better partner. But love doesn't let go easily. My friend was heartbroken, and I was confused.

I had tried to make my friend into something he wasn't. I had wanted him to date black women also, like himself, but he seemed so uninterested. I had learned something new about interracial dating. Some black men simply aren't interested in other black women.

Another friend, a successful black professional, often complained to me that he could not find black women of his "caliber." Black women, he said, were often loud and difficult and uneducated with 2 or 3 children. After searching for a year or two, he settled down in a relationship with a white woman who worked as a nurses assistant. It seems my friend was actually less interested in his partner's caliber than in his race.

Why couldn't he just tell the truth? He did not want to date a black women!! He wanted a white woman instead. To catch his eye, a black woman would have to be twice as gorgeous and twice as successful as an average white woman!!!

A sensitive issue

Although some would prefer to sweep the issue under the rug, interracial dating is still a very controversial subject in the black community. Yet anyone who dares to question almost any form of interracial dating is immediately challenged, criticized and dismissed by the "PC police." Those involved in interracial relationships are often the most sensitive about the issue when questions are raised.

For the record, I think adults should be free to date whoever they want. I have dated a virtual rainbow coalition of men in my life, including blacks, whites, Latinos and Asian-Americans. Today I prefer white men, but I would not entirely rule out the possibility of dating someone of my own race.

Interracial dating doesn't bother me. Nor am I bothered by segregated dating, as when whites prefer other whites or blacks prefer other blacks. I think this is a natural extension of our comfort levels with people like ourselves. Nevertheless, such preferences — particularly when they become absolute exclusions — could reflect some level of sel loathing.

Why do we exclude our own?

What does concern me is when black men consciously choose not to date other black women. I can understand when a black man dates outside of his race. I cannot understand when a black man refuses to date within his race. Such exclusion, it seems to me, is rooted in deep self hatred.

A few years ago I met an attractive black man in Los Angeles. "I usually don't date black women," he told me, "but I find you intriguing." I guess he thought I should be flattered, but instead I was disturbed. Rather than see me as his equal, he saw me as some sort of scientific oddity.

Of course there are intelligent black women out there. Anear black men announce they've "given up on black women!!!" after an unsuccessful relationship. "Black men have too many issues," one white woman told me.

All relationships have issues. In fact, interracial relationships must often navigate through difficult questions of racial comfort and sincerity that don't appear in most same-race relationships. In interracial dating, we often find ourselves asking, "Does this person see beyond my race or will he show his true colors when the chips are down?"

Whatever issues white men face, self hatred is not one of them when it comes to their racial identity. That's why I'm more concerned about black men excluding other blacks than I am about white men excluding other whites from their respective dating pools.

In a culture that devalues black males and elevates white males, it is not likely that white male racial self-exclusion is rooted in self hatred than it would be with black males. After all, white men have no reason to hate themselves in a society that reinforces their privilege. Black men, on the other hand, are repeatedly assaulted by messages that communicate our alleged inferiority.

Let's face it — why should I chase somebody who doesn't want me? I have no interest in spending my time trying to get a prejudiced black man to look at me in a bar . I'd rather spend my time talking to that cute, intelligent white man. A man that doesn't see my color as a stepping stone to ill perceived status!! :toast:

Morenaseis ... this is the 3rd time I've asked you not to add content to this forum that belongs to anyone other than yourself.

If you want to maintain posting priviledges on this forum don't do this again ... I won't be asking anymore.

Destee

While I agree with most of the reasons for the "black male shortage", I have to say that alot of the blame is on us as women. We have spoiled our black men from birth to the grave. We tend to raise our daughters to be self-sufficient, they often see other black women struggling in the absence of a black male figure. We spoil our sons thinking that a good man is hard to find, and they've got a hard row to hoe in this world. But we are doing our men a grave disservice. The world is rough, on both sides of the gender coin,but that's never been an excuse for me to give up or become lazy. Think of the men you know....How many have excuses for their behavior that we as women take as gospel? Think of the females you know....how many are doing the job of 10 men while their "man" gets to play single. The reality is...if we raise our sons into the men that we look for but don't ever find, we could change a generation so that there will be no shortage.

I adore REAL black men. And they love me too. They are friends, family, and heros who are NEVER haunted by the truths that I pen, because they live as shining exceptions to them. To those brothers who are my enemies, whom I disrespect and loathe with passion and glee: If the shoes that you find herein fit you, then lace them up and STEP OFF!!!

For every single mother, there are MORE absent fathers! For every exhausted grandmother, forced to rear her grandchildren, left by the selfish, abusive, incarcerated, there are MORE grandfathers who have been absent for DECADES! For every Black woman who dates white men, there are FAR MORE brothers who date white women exclusively. Whoopi Goldberg is bashed for dating rich white men, while O. J. Simpson is praised as some hero for marrying (and murdering) a teen-aged waitress who was a high school dropout.

I adore REAL black men. And they love me too. They are friends, family, and heros who are NEVER haunted by the truths that I pen, because they live as shining exceptions to them. To those brothers who are my enemies, whom I disrespect and loathe with passion and glee: If the shoes that you find herein fit you, then lace them up and STEP OFF!!!

They saw Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second..........

Does their 'GOD' find fault with the many ills affecting the Black community because of ruthless, stupid behavior by Black males. Indeed, he bypasses the fact that Black males colloborated with the original white devil, slaveholders in getting his own woman, in shackles and brought to the white man's midst. Of course, not all Black males participated in this ultimate betrayal, but enough did, that Africa was left decimated. Not only that, but once the Black woman was on the shores of Amerikk, there are many incidents recorded where the Black male, who was promoted to overseer, in some cases, would himself sexually harass and violate the Black woman, so much so, that she would run away to get away from such cruelty. One recorded incident shows the Black woman, living in the woods, among alligators, snakes, and other vicious animals, for fear of her well-being, by Black males, if she returned. Her death would have been on such black males head.

Some black males, have beaten, violated, oppressed, killed Black women, yet certain religious segments, speaking of 'nation time' have only heard the voice of God, make specific laws against Black women, while making no exceptional 'mule' laws against Black males who have brought drugs into the community, systematically killing one another, betray one another, refuse to educate themselves, steal, kill and destroy from innocent Black men, women and children, Their SO-CALLED GOD, ignores the greater evil, to CURSE THE BLACK WOMAN AS A BETRAYER TO THE BLACK MAN FOR TRYING TO BETTER HER FAMILY AND HERSELF. Such Black women, when not seeing the above mentioned on-going atrocities, saw Black men prefer the white woman, or those closest to white, while denigrating the natural hued Black woman. They saw, Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second class. They saw this and many other evils, and their reaction was to better themselves, by educating themselves, and working but the Black male segment who embraces this demonic ideology saw, and sees, their efforts as BETRAYAL OF THE BLACK MAN.

This dangerous, brutal, savage, mentality that embraces such ideology is set to destroy the Black woman. Such organizations and individuals who embrace such evil, will be quick to cry 'Black power' and "I'm against the MAN for mistreating my woman', but that ideology shows that they are mistreating their women by so embracing it. 'A nation's rise to greatness, depends on how it treats its women' and if you believe your 'woman' if you will, is responsible for your sorry plight, you cannot very well, love, or respect that woman, rather you hate that woman.' Hence, if you hate the woman, you cannot rise to prominence for you do not have the wherewithal to protect, respect, and uplift the woman.

Oh, I could go on and on, with the affects of dangerous ideology on the mindset of warped, confused, colored boys, who are not fit to be called Black. These overgrown brutes do nothing but show themselves ultimate losers, who cannot think a rational thought to save their lives, and since, we see rampant self-afflicted death via gang bangings, and the such, we know that the ilk has allowed the white devil to keep them enslaved brutes to their godless will. Hence, the fight for liberation that goes on by righteous Black women, must arise and not only oppose the white devil, but these wounded brutes, who are hell-bent on hating and destroying the Black woman. They weren't or aren't man or wise enough to stand up to the white devil, so like the ultimate, cowardly, weaklings that they have been turned into by their white masters, they show themselves so, in promoting such ill doctrine against the one person who would see them do well, if they act righteous, the AWESOME BLACK WOMAN! So be it, awesome Black woman, FIGHT THE ENEMY WITHIN AND WITHOUT FOR THE DIVINE REMAINS WITH YOU ALONE, AS ALWAYS!!!!!

Well, you are definitley a black "man" that stands in the truth :) It is a sad truth but true all the same :(


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I happen to be a Legitimate replica of a black man(real black man, although i'm 19).
I'd have to agree, that most black men are the cause of "sista sufferage"...and also, that black men percieve black women as "secondary" in value.
This was my hypothesis of "Scapegoat" attitudes.
As the year advances, i'm sorry to report this, but these "scapegoat" attitudes are on the rise.

Of course, the brothers will have their hypocritical views when a sista dates a white man in an alternate manner. But hey, if there aren't enough black men for black women, then why should "scapegoat" motivated black males even be concerned

I don't see any Black men as my enemy...when you become their enemy, you lose the chance to reach out to each other.

Don't always assume that because you see a Black man with a white woman it is because of hatred for a Black woman. My brother doesn't date Black women. Why you wonder? It is not because he doesn't find them attractive or doesn't want to, it's because the majority of Black women think he is a nerd and tells him he acts and talks white!

Sometimes Black men date white women (I mentioned this before) because they can do it without getting lynched. They are thumbing their nose up at the men who forcibly took their women for centuries. Not all Black men treat these women well...

We have some brothers who think other women than Black women are the epitome of beauty, but there are many more that think we are the goddesses of the earth. Let's focus on those and continue to raise more men like them.

I don't see any Black men as my enemy...when you become their enemy, you lose the chance to reach out to each other. >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Neither do I...My best friend is a black man. He is a man that loves ALL women....he does not discriminate...lol

Don't always assume that because you see a Black man with a white woman it is because of hatred for a Black woman. My brother doesn't date Black women. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't, my mother is white and my father was/is not a self hater...I have run acorss my fair share of these repugnant men and so have many of my friends (both black and white girlfriends). White men or light skinned black women that tend to be MAGNETS FOR THIS TYPE OF MAN don't deserve it and what's wrong with a little advice/warning. Black women period need to date out and expand dating options.

Originally posted by morenaseis
They saw Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second..........

Does their 'GOD' find fault with the many ills affecting the Black community because of ruthless, stupid behavior by Black males. Indeed, he bypasses the fact that Black males colloborated with the original white devil, slaveholders in getting his own woman, in shackles and brought to the white man's midst. Of course, not all Black males participated in this ultimate betrayal, but enough did, that Africa was left decimated. Not only that, but once the Black woman was on the shores of Amerikk, there are many incidents recorded where the Black male, who was promoted to overseer, in some cases, would himself sexually harass and violate the Black woman, so much so, that she would run away to get away from such cruelty. One recorded incident shows the Black woman, living in the woods, among alligators, snakes, and other vicious animals, for fear of her well-being, by Black males, if she returned. Her death would have been on such black males head.

Some black males, have beaten, violated, oppressed, killed Black women, yet certain religious segments, speaking of 'nation time' have only heard the voice of God, make specific laws against Black women, while making no exceptional 'mule' laws against Black males who have brought drugs into the community, systematically killing one another, betray one another, refuse to educate themselves, steal, kill and destroy from innocent Black men, women and children, Their SO-CALLED GOD, ignores the greater evil, to CURSE THE BLACK WOMAN AS A BETRAYER TO THE BLACK MAN FOR TRYING TO BETTER HER FAMILY AND HERSELF. Such Black women, when not seeing the above mentioned on-going atrocities, saw Black men prefer the white woman, or those closest to white, while denigrating the natural hued Black woman. They saw, Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second class. They saw this and many other evils, and their reaction was to better themselves, by educating themselves, and working but the Black male segment who embraces this demonic ideology saw, and sees, their efforts as BETRAYAL OF THE BLACK MAN.

This dangerous, brutal, savage, mentality that embraces such ideology is set to destroy the Black woman. Such organizations and individuals who embrace such evil, will be quick to cry 'Black power' and "I'm against the MAN for mistreating my woman', but that ideology shows that they are mistreating their women by so embracing it. 'A nation's rise to greatness, depends on how it treats its women' and if you believe your 'woman' if you will, is responsible for your sorry plight, you cannot very well, love, or respect that woman, rather you hate that woman.' Hence, if you hate the woman, you cannot rise to prominence for you do not have the wherewithal to protect, respect, and uplift the woman.

Oh, I could go on and on, with the affects of dangerous ideology on the mindset of warped, confused, colored boys, who are not fit to be called Black. These overgrown brutes do nothing but show themselves ultimate losers, who cannot think a rational thought to save their lives, and since, we see rampant self-afflicted death via gang bangings, and the such, we know that the ilk has allowed the white devil to keep them enslaved brutes to their godless will. Hence, the fight for liberation that goes on by righteous Black women, must arise and not only oppose the white devil, but these wounded brutes, who are hell-bent on hating and destroying the Black woman. They weren't or aren't man or wise enough to stand up to the white devil, so like the ultimate, cowardly, weaklings that they have been turned into by their white masters, they show themselves so, in promoting such ill doctrine against the one person who would see them do well, if they act righteous, the AWESOME BLACK WOMAN! So be it, awesome Black woman, FIGHT THE ENEMY WITHIN AND WITHOUT FOR THE DIVINE REMAINS WITH YOU ALONE, AS ALWAYS!!!!! Morenaseis ... are these your own words ... or someone else's ?

Destee

Yes, let's get back on the subject...

I just saw the movie "Deliver Us From Eva" and it was very cute/funny. The men in the theater seemed to really like it since they sure were laughing. What I liked about it is the fact that it showed BEAUTIFUL black women. Just something that has been avoided until recent years (thanks John Travolta). These women exemplify just a small portion of the beauty, passion well roundedness of the BLACK women I have known and currently know. Women just like any other woman of any other race. I hope we see more examples in the MASS MEDIA of just how stunning black women are (although I am fair, in my opinion, the darker, the more beautiful)...I hope every SELF HATING BLACK MAN (if not applicable, move on) that has settled for the fat, greasy haired white girl, the one with a perpetual hole/run in her panty hose and a stick up her butt thinking she has a prize when poor baby really has a self hater...Again, I hope these SELF HATING BLACK MEN cringe in their seats and kick themselves in the a s s for hating and dogging their entire race of women (Again! if not applicable, move on!). To thine own self be true...if this offends you, then it's probably you I am referring too...I would hate to be you and look myself in the mirror!! No woman, white or light-skinned black deserves to be used by you scumbags as a trophy to soothe the pain of your soul......LOL.

Black women need to realize that these men don't hate black women, they hate themselves. The reflection of themselves that they see makes their skin crawl. DATE OUT LADIES and EXPAND the pool of men that you have to CHOOSE from. Don't be a pan on the smorgasbord line for BLACK men to pick over. Especially those same black men that EXCLUSIVELY date WHITE.

I believe also that it has a lot to do with slavery. Many slaves married while in captivity but was seperated by their owners. Families was split up leaving the man and woman not knowing the true meaning of commitment. As generations produced this pattern was still embedded in the children. Yes, black women are are angry as well as men. But instead of correcting the pattern we point our fingers at each other instead of fixing the problem.
we choose to run away from one another. There is no shortage of black men. Just misunderstanding of the sexes.

I agree with the last post, as far as all the finger pointing goes, but I don't believe there are enough black women looking for a black man to treat them well, at least their not looking for me. In the past two weeks I have been stood up by black women, propositioned by married black women (who assumed that I would help her cheat, since I'm a black man), and called lame when it was discovered that I am honorable. Another black woman at my job is complaining and crying because her husband of four years is mistreating her. The problem is, she knew he was the way he was 10 years and x-number of kids ago. Instead of breaking away and finding a real man to date she married this one. Then the other day she's amening this other chick who was talking the same ol' "black men ain't no good" crap.This is why the whole "black male shortage" thing really pisses me off, and to be perfectly honest, I have no sympathy for black women these days. If black women really wanted the kind of man they claim they do they would have one. I know too many single brothers like myself who are flat out ignored in favor of men they know are no good.

black women need to start dating out and getting it on with white men and other races. black men are no good. now i am happily married for 20 years with a good men that loves me and treats me like a queen (I mean that literally).

I believe the perception of "black male shortage" is just a perception. What is really happening is that men and women are finding it hard to connect on the same level. Our expectations varies depending on our options (financial stats, location, physical attractiveness, mentality, etc). That makes it seem like there is a shortage.

When I go out to clubs, yes, most of the time there are more women in the crowd than men. We do out number them. Where are the brothers? As mentioned before jail, homos, etc. are a factor. But, what about the ones who work and don't hang out? What about the ones who are just at home entertaining or somewhere else like a friends house b-b-quing...etc? Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they are not out there.

Go where the men are and you will see them:

1. sporting event/sports bar
2. grocery store (late at night because they don't like crowds)
3. barbar shop
4. auto parts store
5. men's clothing department
6. Best Buy/Circuit City
7. auto show
8. church
9. gym
10. associations/organizations (attend the fund raisers)

Quality brothers are doing something positive with their lives. Quality brothers want quality women.

I don't buy into the shortage myth. There is one out there for me!

Those Black women that advocate dating out----remember men are men. They can cheat, kill their mates and be no good. Quick quiz- of all the shelters for battered and abused women-what demographic mostly inhabit them?Hint-white women! No, most of the men they are running from ain't all brothers. Another one if Black men do not take care of their children-yes there are Black men(some) out there that do. I'm asking this question and Regina or anyone else in ANY states' social service agency can help me out. States that routinely post deadbeat dad info-what pictures of men that you see the most that owe more in back child support for the longest? White men! Been awhile since I seen Alabama's (my state) but the first two years they had that program under a Republican gubertorial administrations there were few Black men that were owing thousands of dollars in back child support, but a lot of white men owing tens of thousands and even a couple owing hundreds of thousands of dollars in back child support. I am not saying that there are NO good white men, but don't assume every white man is good. One note, remember those Texas prisoners that escaped a few years ago-mostly white and Hispanic? One of the white prisoners that escaped had either a Black wife or girlfriend appealing for him to give up.

From sisters who would have lived and died for a brother... Being that i have two brothers (siblings).. but nevertheless....

Solo: You made a valid point.. woman change..not men... but we change in trying to conform to our mans needs... to be a woman... Like told my man when i met.. I feel your worth being treated like a man or something special.. then i will... We shouldn't do anything we don't have to... like cook... love you... those come with time.. and respect... and hard work on bother parties.. but you expect all that without a ring... did we miss something... how many women are tired of playing house.. and no real benefits....

Also.. a thug and lame does not correlate... cause a thug can be lame based on characteristics, lifestyle and activities... meaning.. we both came from the street... but i can be more productive not hanging in them on the weekends... thats a lame.. a lame *** unproductive thug... but an educated thug who has some point felt the wrath of the streets and works hard to stay away.. well... i call that intriguing... just remember.. lame and thug are not one in the same.... lame and cool.. and the synonyms or antonyms.. which ever.. i wasn't an english major.

morenasis: very true (interacially) black women have more a complex to dating outside their race as oppose to black men... i don't it was ever a hesitation for them... from the ones i talk to.. they say that is the best piece of ....

Solo: why we don't date outside: Its called respect, faith in our brothers and love for ourselves and culture. Why would you even say something like dhat. I feel hostility?... would you like talk?....

"Solo: why we don't date outside: Its called respect, faith in our brothers and love for ourselves and culture. Why would you even say something like dhat. I feel hostility?... would you like talk?...."

Hello.

I don't post here very often so I can't remember what I said. Anyway, the reason I would say that is because I feel that rather than complain about what black men do or don't do, just leave us alone and find someone else that is more pleasing to you. And you're right, there is some hostility...not towards anyone in particular....I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of anger in me towards black women. I have spent several years working on this, but it hasn't helped. I don't date non black women either, so that means I just don't date. That's really a whole different topic.

I guess I'll have to go back and read exactly what I posted. It's been a long time and I feel a bit different now than I did back then. I've given up on relationships since that time, so anything I said back then is moot.

Morenasis: I understand but to do so (date interacially) is to say that we have given up... personally. I can't fathom the idea of such a change and expect to be viewed in the same way... because I don't view one the same way that steps outside.. and yes.. i am being bias... I have a complex with a brother that sleeps with one... Cause personally i think its a complex with them. You must have faith in your heritage to strengthen it. Everyone is trying to find a way to compromise it

Kemet: We are not talking about mookies (categorizing the black male). We are talking about the black male in general and how they were influenced to be a mookie in some form or fashion.

And it did start in the sixities based on the location I am from and as well as my own heritage... Cause my great granddaddy is around and still married to same woman.. just not the grand daddies and beyond...

Morenasis: Segragated dating... What is that all about... do you have a complex.. or maybe you been on the west too long... that term was thrown out... And haven't we shared enough.. haven't we lacked their of... have we not already let things rides... those black men didn't stop those white men from raping those women in slavery days... were their any attempts... We must strengthen ourselves.. must help ourselves... we must have faith in ourselves.. and if you choose not to right now... then strengthen yourself... don't compromise

Toynado: You just said a mouthful.. and i agree... Our children need to be raised as ladies and gentlemen

Kem: Good point... let a child be a child.. and raise them to be a lady/gentlemen... Never accepting less from anyone...

Regina: their is plenty of other reasons to see them as an enemey.. but i won't go their... You don't always have to date them to hate/dislike them.... They are truly a class of their own... almost a race of their own... Venus and Mars holds very true...

fast typing.. please excuse any mistakes

on relationships... I just learned that it takes more time.. i think that you should take more time learning some one... as an individual.. than trying to mate and collab your life stories/style... And think that you should actually take the time.. instead of trying to work in a relationship... because a friendship lasts a life time... not a relationship.... Which has nothing to do with marriage.

It's my opinion that there is no 'shortage' of Black men and that it's all a myth. I see no where in this thread a set of facts to support this argument. Furthermore, inherent in this idea is the notion that for every girl child born that she will grow up choosing to be with a man and that's not true. Many of us have read reports claiming percentages of Black men imprisoned, on drugs, married or either gay, which has been translated into a 'shortage' of men. But as we contemplate on these so-called 'facts,' do we ever consider comparable stats on Black women or do we assume that none of us fall prey to these same conditions as well?

Too many presumptions here and not enough qualified facts to even begin to engage in some meaningful dialogue about the topic.

Of course, in my opinion...

Quality brothers are doing something positive with their lives. Quality brothers want quality women.

Well Said! :teach: :cool:

I believe also that it has a lot to do with slavery. Many slaves married while in captivity but was seperated by their owners. Families was split up leaving the man and woman not knowing the true meaning of commitment. As generations produced this pattern was still embedded in the children. Yes, black women are are angry as well as men. But instead of correcting the pattern we point our fingers at each other instead of fixing the problem.
we choose to run away from one another. There is no shortage of black men. Just misunderstanding of the sexes.

Thank you PurpleMoons! Finally in this long discussion someone who has introduced a resolution rather than harping on our problems.
There was a time when we had to secretly wed and lived in fear of being separated from each other. Now we think that we've arrived and no longer see the need for black male/black female companionship. We have both been equally damaged by time and circumstance and need to heal together through time.

We should stop believe myths created by the same people who damaged us in the first place. Those who choose to date outside. Good for them. That weeds out all the people who aren't willing to build. Black men and women are only reflections of each other. We are affected by the same things always.
Even if you marry or date or have children outside your race, or become financially well off, it dosen't change the fact that you were still born black.

Mary Mcleod Bethune said: The true worth of a race, is measured by the character of its woman.

Less division. More growth.

Thank you PurpleMoons! Finally in this long discussion someone who has introduced a resolution rather than harping on our problems.
There was a time when we had to secretly wed and lived in fear of being separated from each other. Now we think that we've arrived and no longer see the need for black male/black female companionship. We have both been equally damaged by time and circumstance and need to heal together through time.

We should stop believe myths created by the same people who damaged us in the first place. Those who choose to date outside. Good for them. That weeds out all the people who aren't willing to build. Black men and women are only reflections of each other. We are affected by the same things always.
Even if you marry or date or have children outside your race, or become financially well off, it dosen't change the fact that you were still born black.

Mary Mcleod Bethune said: The true worth of a race, is measured by the character of its woman.

Less division. More growth.
Read this carefully folks, there is no man shortage. Period. A large portion of the women who make this ascertain are frankly not worthy of the man they say they have trouble finding. Factor in the growing, bi and tri, and lesbian lifestyles of "our" women, and you will see that clearly their is no man shortage, indeed good man shortage

I don't post here much, but I would like to amen the last few posts.

Thank you.

But i still question the quality of our black male as they should do like wise... "Also agreeing with the last couple of posts..."

woman outnumber men across the board...
in all races this is true...
more men are born
but men die earlier...due to multiple reasons...
the real issue should not be da male shortage...
it should be how black men and women treat each other...
thas just my humble opinion
one love
khasm

This has been and still is a reality.

Because I'm looking around and see evidence of Black men among the "free" and living, I don't see where there is a "shortage" per se.

I've heard all the statistics about those incarcerated, gay, murdered and even the disproportionate ratio of male:female births, but still, why do we perceive it as factual proof that those circumstances leads to a shortage of men when it comes to "match-making" relationships between Black men/women? Statistically, Black women are dying faster than Black men from AIDS. Some Black women are also incarcerated, homosexual, and are murdered. When it's all said and done, where is the shortage of Black men to Black women? I guess I don't understand this logic.

Have we investigated other factors before we leap to this conclusion? Let's look at the quality of our existing relationships. What type of relationships do we want and get with each other? How many of us exclude each other for other reasons than those above? How many of us (men and women) electively remove ourselves from the category of committed relationships?

I'd really like to see some valid and objective data on this.

Well said NN

Very well put NN Queen.
Seems like bad news sells better than good news. Only way I can explain why people believe all the crap they hear out there.

i believe there is a shortage of men, and this is true ifor nearly every racial/ethnic group within the US. For Black Americans the differences in # of adult males and Adult females are greater than other groups. There are some solutions for this "problem" but Black American isn't ready to accept thesw solutions collective. By the way, I believe sometimes "we' get confused about quantity vs quality...just women outnumber men it doesn necessarily translate into men have better "quality" to chose from. :x:

I have the utmost respect for all of the most recent opinions, but if there isn’t a Black Male shortage than this fact raise many other scenarios that are, just as disturbing and troubling.

The destruction to our community is aggressively in place, starting with first and foremost, the Black male’s viability. This is historically and tactically where this, barbarous patriarchal culture began it's predatory attacks. And if you live in the community, there is no need for someone to tell you (far as what is heard) what you see or to always statistically qualify and quantify what you are experiencing. There are even statistics that say, “Based on government spending and recent educational levels of Black people, they should be “Ok” or at least much better than yesterday. So if you have statistics, that are contrary to my opinions, than teach from that perspective and I will learn, even more.

But, let me give you something less believable, and that is, what this “Black man has seen”.


I’ll tell you what; for the sake of argument, I’ll start off with one brother’s statistical analysis toward my non-statistical reasoning.

Brother Haki Madhubuti wrote a book several years ago, I’m sure that you’re familiar with the title, ENEMIES: The Clash Of Races, _Third World Press, Published 1978. In Part 2, a section called, The Quality Of Sharing: Problems Facing Black Women, he points out:

“Black women in this country outnumber Black men approximately one point five (1.5) to one (1), This means that for every fifty (50) Black adult males there are seventy-five (75) Black adult females (1970 Census Bureau Finding – Racial Statistics).”

Now at the time I read this fact, it was probably around the mid 80’s and I noticed that the source data was over a decade old. With this in mind, I glossed over the enumerations and was more enthralled about his suggestions dealing with the reinstitution of polygamy. And even that subject, at the time, I found more thought provoking than realistic. But as I pondered over the original statistical data, I became more intrigued, about what would this type of differential, really look like and how would it play out, exponentially. I thought, though the variance seemed slight (1:1.5), it really could be problematic, even before it “exponentially tailspins”. And of course, I was dealing with it’s “face value’, with no other extenuating circumstances, that would influence outcome, one way or the other.

After reading these facts, for the first time, I really started to contemplate something, I always knew, but took for granted. For, most of us don’t always notice a phenomenon, unless we’re mentally cued in on it or it’s affecting us directly, usually in a negative fashion. Even though black women are usually in abundance in our families, churches or everyday life, most Black men, I initially talked to, have never thought deeply about the numerical differences, one way or the other. In other words, people usually never complain about having the presence of “too much of a good thing”. And please don’t take this analogy out of context. So with blinders off, I became a little more acute to, how many Black women were in the majority, in different social environments and I started a sort of personal pseudo-social study, beginning with querying sisters and afterwards some study of what I was seeing and hearing.

Here’s one area I found interesting. I had a job some years ago, were I had to visit several apartments a week, for a real-estate management company. Though I was independent, I was retained, for regular, almost daily work. I noticed that residing in the hundreds of apartments I had visited; there were only Black women and children, but no adult Black males present. And this fact was bolstered through congenial and cordial conversation during these visits. But once again, I became caught in my mundane-duties and wasn’t really studying what I was experiencing, until one sister said, something about asking her husband or “live-in companion” to talk to me… and all of a sudden, this statement, that should have been passé, took on unbelievable relevance. After visiting a vast number of husband-less or men-less homes with children, her statement almost stumped me.

Now this is far from scientific and empirically statistical (if there is such a thing) study, but I had to begin trusting, what I was seeing around me. And each “everyday” issue was worth noting, regardless of what I was being told, by research. As I said before, if we were to envelope ourselves in “just” research alone, (I emphasis the word “JUST”) we would believe, based on some very conservative statistics, that Black People are on “top of the world” and everything should be “coming up roses”. I believe we have heard these conservative statistics before.

Look, I’ve seen this discrepancy in churches, African centered functions, social gatherings and work places. In our communities there are many apartment buildings and whole residential blocks, where all of the tenants are exclusively single Black women with children.

I think we are in denial, about this, especially Black women; which I think is more about sisters’ “coping-mechanisms”, than ignorance. And we don’t always understand, this male-female ratio shifts, as we deal in different social strata’s in our community and around various social/cultural interests.

I know one very culturally astute and brilliant young brother, who happens to be single. I asked him, “what he felt about the male/female ratio, among our people”. He reminded me that because you can see so many single Black men, on the cultural scene don’t mean all of these brothers are always available for involvement or commitment and even he felt, he was out numbered, by progressive Black women, looking for companionship.

You know, one thing about our conscious community, there is a lot of hush-hush hypocrisy right below the surface of our Afro-centricity and cultural awareness. There are only a few truly conscious Brothers and Sisters among us, who are not afraid of damaging their progressive image or the “sometimes” romanticized view of the movement, who are willing to openly talk about this. Some of the young brothers and sisters are telling me that the “Players” are growing “locks” now, wearing garb and proposing to have mastered "metaphysical spiritual teachings", while finding plenty of “soul-searching” young sisters who are willfully complicit with this cultural-pimp/player mentality.

THIS IS NOT NEW!!!

If I can remember correctly, Sister Elaine Brown, eluded to this type of behind-the-revolutionary-door misogynism that was in the Black Panthers. I know I’m slightly digressing, but I think these before mentioned points are in the same “denial-trap” of, “how-are-we-really-relating-to-each other” in the movement.

As we look around us. From the average church deacon to the MBA’s and lawyers there are brothers who take advantage of this reality. I’ve heard Black business executives talk like pimps about the over abundance of highly educated sisters at their disposal.

Let me also say something about the growing statistics of Black females, on drugs, dieing from HIV, the homelessness of our women and children and the growing number of Black females being incarcerated. Are we missing something here? This is a direct societal response to the past attacks on viable Black males that initiated this shortage and which is still exponentially growing; this is nothing more, than the old “domino affect”.

Let’s not forget about CoIntelPro and how most covert objectives are long-term and complex.

And I have to note that in my many conversations and experiences, that most of the Sisters who were trying to convince me that there was no Black male shortage, were man-less at the time of that assumption and many times had some deep psycho-socio-spiritual reason why they didn’t have or didn’t want a masculine-balance to their life. Matter of fact, one Sister admitted that all of the Black women that she worked with, were without husbands or male companions (basically man-less) while all her white female coworkers were married and the only one who wasn’t marry was engaged. She had never given it much thought, until we had a conversation discussing this subject.

But hey, if “some” sisters are convinced this is myth, a Black male conspiracy or some sort of loose and fast handling of the facts, at the end of the day, most single Black men I’ve talked to, are not in the business of changing their minds, for from their vantage point, they feel no sense of worry or emergency. For many of them, it becomes the survival of the fittest.

My analyses may be “…crap” to brother HerukhuMaat, and brother it would be better if you’re absolutely right. But, I think my observations and the observations of others may be a little more thorough than that response.


Peace

Sun Ship

P.S. _And for those who would like to misconstrue any part of this topic, for the sake of “just” arguing or make every discussion “just” personal, none of the above statements are directed at any “one” sister or “all” sisters in general, who have legitimate reasons to be with or without a man at this time or for that matter anytime and for whatever reason. These are just some of my most humble opinions and observations.

Peace and much respect, Brother Sun Ship. You have provided sound reasoning that has shed much light on this topic. It inspires me to blink in order to see life through your lenses so that I can grasp a better understanding of this issue. But here's what I'm thinking. . .

I realize that more girl babies are born than boy babies and just thinking about what you wrote, it causes me to wonder whether nature designed it to be that way to insure the growth of our population and guarantee its survival. A single (potent) male can impregnate many women and this discussion begs me to question what we, living in a monogamous society, call a Black male "shortage." Maybe it's not a shortage after all, simply because women naturally outnumber men. If we lived in a society that supported polygamy, would we still be having this discussion? I wonder.

One to one, removing other factors, there would never be enough men for every woman. So other factors come into play, like those listed earlier. My question might sound awkward but I'm brave enough to ask it, are we supposed to match up monogamously or in ways that support the extension and welfare of the lineage? Is this an anthropological question as opposed to a sociological one? I'm not sure.

What do you think?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Queenie :bowdown:, your wisdom, insight and valiant posture is uplifting and stimulating. “You keep a brother thinking” and have swiftly lifted this thread towards a loftier challenge and above the fray.

I think when looking at this thread in the broader context of bold solutions and unconventional answers as appose to problems, dilemmas and predicaments, probably the word, “shortage” could be put to rest.

I agree with what you have suggested about polygamy, I have, over the years, researched this subject from the zoological references to the anthropological and even historically, while contemplating polygyny’s possible neo-social ramifications. This form of cohabitating is part of a natural balance that has been innately in place, in the animal kingdom and humankind and was predominately in matrilineal cultures. But I think if African Americans could reconstitute this very provocative, but responsive living and procreating arraignment, then we need to approach it proactively, creatively and intellectually. Right now in our community, it is carelessly happening at a more reactive and passion-driven level, without reason or forethought, EVEN AMONG THE PROGRESSIVES. More like polyamorous meaning just "many lovers".

The “nature/culture gap” created by this “monogamy only” society has allowed so-called “Players” and irresponsible brothers to haphazardly partake in a “testosterone-driven mating frenzy”, by unfairly taking advantage of a natural phenomenon (polygyny).

Unfortunately, in a strange twist of fate, “players”, cultural pimps and political crooks and cons in our community, project the boldness that proactive revolutionaries and our progressive thinkers lack, but with usually false intentions and the wrong motives. It’s interesting that the word “con” derives from the word “confidence”. They do not fear failure, scrutiny or the condemnations of a hypocritically pious society.

I’ll go as far as saying, if progressive people don’t become a powerful and functional part of the reproduction of our community, we won’t have to worry about a "covert sterilization program by racist eugenicist", but a natural evolution towards dysgenics.

With the above thoughts in mind, I’ve talked to a few, very positive primary school educators in our community; they had a lot of faith and hope, but were becoming more and more concerned about the early development of our children. They are the first ones to see our future and their pronouncements were full of uncertainty.

Let me end on this footnote, concerning this overall thread. I know a Black family, who’s incidentally reproducing, “a next generation” of mostly male offspring and in reference to this subject this is a wonderful thing. But these young men’s fathers, uncles and grandfathers had been dieing faster than they could assist, in the raising of their young descendants. This has left a lot of them in an obviously unbalanced reality that sometimes endangers their very lives, which many times is directly related to a lack of male guidance, even though their mothers are doing their best. Over the years, the remaining elder-males have extended their reach as far as possible, but because the Black male society as a whole has numerically changed (multiple responsible black men in the community who knew the family, especially the males and they knew how to respond, to a young man’s behavior.) It has made this sometimes far-reaching guidance difficult.

When I see our numbers being effectively attacked on every front, there is something almost diabolical and insidiously conspiratorial about this problem.

But Sister NNQueen I think if progressive sisters like you, can keep the pressure on the progressive minds of black men and our sisters, ideas may turn into action.


Ashe!

Sun Ship


P.S.___
dys·gen·ics (d s-j n ks)
n. (used with a sing. verb) The biological study of the factors producing degeneration in offspring, especially of a particular race or species.

dysgenics
n : the study of the operation of factors causing degeneration in the type of offspring produced

I am not sure if there are necessarily more males on the planet than there are female..because there are cultures / nation in which there are extreme measures for women to male offspring...like China and India and when one features that these nations are tow of the most populated nations in the world...one could argue that there are more males in some places than there are females.

As you noted if we lived in a society that supported polygamy than it would be a possible solution...but that type of socialization would have to begin at birth. I can certainly say from a (meaning one black woman's perspective) that the majority of black american women would not accept such as system because american women have be socialized to be competitve with one another with the except ionfor blood relationships( and close freedships) the emphaisis is on having one's own resources and not pooling and sharing. But americans are pretty accepting of serial marraiges :rolleyes: I believe that Black women would ahve more powerunder polygamy because it would really strength relationships among women.

I believe one consequence of the "shortage" will be the continual decline in the black birthrate...contrary to popular beliefs the birth rate for all black women..tennagerers and adults has gone down. This is particularly true for "professional educated black women" who have one tohe lowerst birth rate in the US. It will be interesting to see how this "pans out" in the next thrity years or so....I personally feel as those I am the first generation of bw in my family who will not have the respnsbility of being a wife and mother and sometimes when I look at how tired many bw are I wonder if this is a bad thing?

My analyses may be “…crap” to brother HerukhuMaat, and brother it would be better if you’re absolutely right. But, I think my observations and the observations of others may be a little more thorough than that response.


P.S. _And for those who would like to misconstrue any part of this topic, for the sake of “just” arguing or make every discussion “just” personal, none of the above statements are directed at any “one” sister or “all” sisters in general, who have legitimate reasons to be with or without a man at this time or for that matter anytime and for whatever reason. These are just some of my most humble opinions and observations.

Sunship,

We can change many things in this society but we cannot change the universal principles of nature. Women.. in most cultures or race outnumber thier men. That's nature. Now nature also dictates that if there is so many fatherless children, then there is something wrong with both the women and men who are bearing these fatherless children.

Well let me tell you my observations. I spent a very good part of my life in the white community and I can tell you that physical abuse and alcoholism starts very early in the culture I observed. From teenage years these boys were beating up on their girlfriends and their mothers were also beat by their fathers. Statistically white men outnumber blackmen in back child support. These child support claims are usually following their divorce. So although all these white people you claim were married... how many of them are going to end up in divorce anyway?

I personally think that we have a lot of house cleaning to do. I believe that black people have very unrealistic expectations of each other at times. Our women have bought into the myth that they're these independent beings who don't need any man for anything. Our men have bought into the myth that they're this thug, playa, baller or hip-hop star. We quickly forget that it was not so long ago that we were all under the crack of the whip, and we fought and struggled together just to see another day. We have to start making our reality one which is conducive to the success and growth of us both. We've quickly bought into the spoils of the status quo as if the status quo ever really had us in mind.

As long as we're still making black babies then we need to ensure their survival in an environment and social structure that is healthy for their development, success and growth.

Just my sincerest and humble observation.

You said...
Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.


Me say...

I agree, even the farmer can't get any milk if the cow doesn't give it. However, we (females) are not cows. We need love and therefore many of us will give sex to get it. I wish most of us were weak like dat, but oh well. Thumbs up to the sistas who know they are complete with or without a man.

Just One Ques; If I MayDo You Have A Mate ?????

Just One Ques; If I MayDo You Have A Mate ?????

Yes I do. :rolling:

I think it is a myth. I think one reason is because some women want everything in one man. A dude with a nice car, nice house, no kids,
no ex-wife, a good job, good looking and loyal with a lot of money. Plus, I think that a lot of women and men don't appreciate a good thing once they get it. Everyone complains that there are no good this and that, but when they find one they take them for granted. There are a lot of good black males out there, a lot of us are just making sure that these women who are complaining are good enough for us. Not to sound bad, but there are a lot of people with really high standards that have nothing to offer in return. I am fine by myself. Don't get me wrong though, I would love to have a woman that I can cherish, trust and give all my love to, but I don't need one. Even if I did find someone special, I would really have to ponder the idea of taking vows. I think marriage triggers something in the mind that screams "ok, no need to impress anymore". Jail definately has a huge impact on the availability of black males, and that's how this country wants it. Honestly, nowadays I think that marriage is just either for convenience or for show. I don't know many people who are married out of love anymore...from what they say. I also know a lot of males, as many of you also do, who don't want to commit for various reason, the main one being the fact that divorce screws men more than women. Not every woman looks to gain from divorce, but what man wants to put himself in that situation where a woman has the choice whether to try and ruin him or not? Also men can get what they want without marriage. It shouldn't be about that, but it happens. Why have a binding contract that holds you around the neck when you can just date someone and when you guys feel the spark going out just get up and leave. It is a lot easier, sincce no one is really worried about having a lifetime partner anymore. I think we can go on and on, but there are too many reasons to just try to pinpoint one or two.

Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

If you could find 2 sistahs that would be willing to share a man, that would be a miracle. :laugh:

If you could find 2 sistahs that would be willing to share a man, that would be a miracle. :laugh:


They're plenty of sistahs doing it, Willingly or unwillingly!

They're plenty of sistahs doing it, Willingly or unwillingly!

Most unwillingly...I assure you.

Most unwillingly...I assure you.


Maybe, maybe not. The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Maybe, maybe not. The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

If you're mormon or a member of a religious cult, then you might be able to run this program sucessfully. That's because this is part of their belief system. However, this belief is not likely to be taught nor considered among the sisters. We are too apt :fight: to fight each other over a boyfriend or what we think is a boyfriend, let alone a husband.

I can't speak for the others but much as I love my husband, I would have NEVER considered sharing him wit nobody honey. :nono:

Sekhemu: The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?

Sekhemu: The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?


Because we're talking about raising and supporting africans. Not to say that some latinos are not black, but the vast majority of them do not identify as such

If you're mormon or a member of a religious cult, then you might be able to run this program sucessfully. That's because this is part of their belief system. However, this belief is not likely to be taught nor considered among the sisters. We are too apt :fight: to fight each other over a boyfriend or what we think is a boyfriend, let alone a husband.

I can't speak for the others but much as I love my husband, I would have NEVER considered sharing him wit nobody honey. :nono:


Our community is in crisis. This is not for "those" sistahs, but for the one's that are more progressive and open minded. The women you speak of can stay with whomever they're with

One more thing, polygamy does work, in not just with mormons. Our people in the motherland do it. not without problems, but the benefits outway the obstacles

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?

Joyce you are seriously mistaken if you believe that those fine looking Latinos don't behave in similar ways as "brothas" do. This includes having multiple women, dealing drugs, etc. I live in a Latino neighborhood, so I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there is no difference....."fineness" aside.

Joyce you are seriously mistaken if you believe that those fine looking Latinos don't behave in similar ways as "brothas" do. This includes having multiple women, dealing drugs, etc. I live in a Latino neighborhood, so I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there is no difference....."fineness" aside.

You have misunderstood me. Go back to the beginning of the discussion between me and Sekhemu...

Sekhemu: Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

We are not discussing behaviour probs with black men but shortages of black men (which I'm not in complete agreement anyway with dat) in America. I am aware that there are good and bad men in every race. I was not singling out my brothas as the bad guys. We are simply discussing shortages and avenues that sistahs might take to offset this. Sekhemu believes that black women should be open to sharing a man to save the african community here. In America, I don't believe that will go over too well.

Our community is in crisis. This is not for "those" sistahs, but for the one's that are more progressive and open minded. The women you speak of can stay with whomever they're with

I agree with you. Our community IS in crisis. But who put it there? Why should the sistahs have to put their self in a :driveby: sacrificing position to share their husband with other women to save THE COMMUNITY. I believe the one who help put it in a crisis should be willing to sacrifice in some manner, rather than be "rewarded" with orgasms:hot: from a whole platoon of women. Come on now. Progessive thought? HA! In my point of view that is not progressing but digressing.