What are your views on the so called Black Male Shortage? How is the dating scene in your community?

I can't comment on the dating scene, but I can offer some thoughts on the black male shortage. Personally, I don't think there is a shortage of black males, but there is a shortage of black available males. Many brothas do not want to commit. Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk free. As long as he is getting the "fringe" benefits of the relationship without commiting, where is the incentive to take it any further???

Here are just a few things that make black men less available but not necessarily in shortage...

1. Prison...often our brothas are incarcerated for longer periods
of time than others for the same crime. We might be suprised
how many are actually innocent of the crime commited, but
they couldn't afford a good lawyer to prove otherwise. For
example, last year, in Florida the the number of black males
in prison was higher than the number of black males in
Florida's population. To me, this is mind boggling.

2. Homosexuality...need I say more.

3. Another popular method of controlling our numbers other than imprisonment is the push for women's rights via a certain particular political party. Whiles white women rally for a woman's right to take her child's life, we more than they, take part in this act to our very own detriment.
CLiCK Here To Read The Source Of This Information (http://www.prolifeinfo.org/upl10.html)

Abortion Incidence Among Blacks Minority women constitute only about 26% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximatly 36% of the abortions. (Morbidity and mortality Weekly Report, U.S. Censuc Bureau, December 18, 1992, Centers for Disease Control).

This incidence of abortion has resulted in a tremendous loss of life. It has been estimated that since 1973 Black women have had about 10 million abortions. Michael Novak had calculated "Since the number of current living Blacks (in the U.S.) is 31 million, the missing 10 million represents an enourmous loss for, without abortion, America's black community would now number 41 milion persons. It would be 35 percent larger than it is currently. Abortion has swept through the Black community cutting down every fourth member. (Flight of Life's Priorities, Cal Thomas, Washington Times, April 1, 1993, p. G1, G4).

4. Homicide

5. Interracial relationships can not produce black males, moreover, it will always take a black woman and a black man to "produce" another black male or female.

There are more situations that affect the availibility of black males, but I is going to bed rat ni

:)

Yes, the reasons you state are some of the main reasons there are less Black men available.

However, when there is quantity there isn't necessarily quality. This goes for both genders.

Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.

Many men do not want to marry because of the high divorce rate. They state many women just want to get married just to be married, to be taken care of or to have children. The men are afraid of losing their assets in the case of a divorce.

The dating scene in the ATL (metro Atlanta) is what one makes of it. I hear a lot of women complain, but I haven't had a problem dating. The main thing here is pre-screening your dates. A man can pretend to be anything he wants to be to impress women. If a woman isn't impressed by the flash and looks beyond what she sees, it's okay.

well their is a some what shortage to every male is at least 5
females and it get slimmer coz so many taken or not ready to
commit

You said...
Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.


Me say...

I agree, even the farmer can't get any milk if the cow doesn't give it. However, we (females) are not cows. We need love and therefore many of us will give sex to get it. I wish most of us were weak like dat, but oh well. Thumbs up to the sistas who know they are complete with or without a man.

Joyce, well said...

Let us hope our sisters realize that their bodies are precious.

The white feminists twist things to show their truth...most of them were already middle class and privileged.

Feminism...that's part of the problem with Black male and Black female relationships...

Black women better stop listening to the feminists... I believe in equal pay for equal work and all that jazz, but the hard-core feminists are man-haters. They think everything about a man is terrible.:eek:

As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single, I don't believe there's a male shortage, but I do think that timing is off between some men and women. For instance, I consider myself a gentleman and a scholar, have never been arrested and am educated. In college I never had a girlfriend because I didn't have a car or a lot of money. I got a lot of attention from white women and Asian girls for some reason, even though I never dated any of them. Black women were angry with me for that, even though I never did anything and they didn't seem to want me in the first place, so basically I was just stuck.

Fast forward almost four years later. I have a decent job and wear nice clothes. I have an old car, but it's payed for and the only debt I have is my college loans. I help take care of my mother who has had a hard time finding work. I don't drink and have never done drugs. I have no children and I think I'm reasonably decent looking.

All that being said, the only difference between me now and back when I was in college is that women have changed. My personality is the same, my character and integrity are the same. Black women have changed. They want different things when they "grow up". Men like me have a difficult time when we're younger, because we're not "cool" and don't know how to "spit game" and whatever else makes a man attractive to a young black woman.

I turned 27 this past November and quite frankly feel no loyalty to my so called sisters, since I feel none was shown to me. I would eventually like to meet, date and marry a nice black woman, but the fact is at this point women who would have been eligible when I was younger are no longer eligible. They either have kids now (a no-no) or haven't healed from a bad relationship in which they chose the wrong guy on purpose (I've never been sure about what women's problem is in choosing a man...). NOW they want a man like me. The bottom line is, brothers like me woke up and decided not to wait on black women to notice us, so we either decided to be alone, raise our standards even higher, or date a different race. Me, I have decided to raise the bar, and am prepared to be alone if I don't meet the kind of woman I like.

I'm not putting all the blame on black women, because most of the stuff above is true (homosexuality, prison, etc.) but the fact is women tend to make bad choices in men. I know too many women who prefer "thug" types, and would consider young men like myself "lame" (I have been called lame to my face on more than one occasion by black women), or "white" if we do things a little differently. By the time these women (which unfotunately seem to be the majority) wake up, it's too late and there's a bunch of bitter black men who want nothing to do with them for different reasons. That's not the whole issue, but that's a major part of it in my opinion. Men need to carry themselves to a higher standard and women need to make better choices and realize that they are the ones who change, not men. Recognize a good man when he's right in front of you, not when he's far ahead of you and out of reach.

i applaud you

keep reaching for the sky :)

pd

I'm not sure where all the postive Black man have gone, but I sure do pray the they return soon.

their are many around u just unknown yet their are some who
is taken and some seeking !

I do not think there is a shortage of black males in our society they just get over looked,but I do think we need to do better raising our younger generations. Too many people (males and females) these days trying to be so called "Ballas and Shot Callas" instead of being an individual. Society is the fault for some of this. When you turn on the television the only African Americans you see are athletes or rappers. Now the younger generation see them as the definition of "Success". More emphasis needs to be put back on education, too many dropouts these days.
<br>
Also, I understand what Solo is saying, I remember back in highschool when I had no car and barely any money some sistahs didnot want to know me. After I finish university and wearing Brook Brothers' suits, I cannot keep them same girls off of me. Now these same sistahs in church with 3 kids praying for a man. Another thing, what is up with all these women wanting a millionare? I saw on tv a woman wrote a book on how to get a millionare!!!
<br>
Furthermore, sistahs stop settling for Mr.Average and looking for Mr.Perfect. Sistahs have a good man but then be looking for a something better. If he doesnot treat u like the Queen you are kick him to the curb and there is no Mr.Perfect. Fellas need to stop catering to these "hoochie mammas", sex only complicates things.

As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single,>>>>>

There are only 5 Black MEN for every 10 black women. I would definitely call that a shortage. Now take half of those 5 who are no good, on drugs or in the system....then take those 2 or 3 that are EXCLUSIVELY dating white women....lol....I would say there is a shortage Sherlock!!!

It behooves you to say no, because you become the Sultan with a Harem of many. Black women are realizing that they don't want to be in a harem of black men when they can date out and find love/security from ALL men, vice black men only. We are not going to be the smorgasbord leftovers for black men any longer. :D

Whatever, but black women would benefit from making wiser choices with that so called "5 for every 10" and they may do better. Also, who's to say that those "10" are all that. Take half of those 10 and they already have babies out of wedlock, are on drugs themselves, are golddiggers, are strippers/prostitutes, etc. It cuts both ways my dear.

>>>Whatever, but black women would benefit from making wiser choices with that so called "5 for every 10" and they may do better. Also, who's to say that those "10" are all that. >>>

That's not the point "whatever". The point/question is: "is there a black male shortage?". The answer is, "YES". Now if you want to give a list as to what percentage is good or bad, fine...however it only truly works if the ratio is 10 to 10...not for the fact that there are ONLY 5 black men for every 10 black women. There is a shortage!!! Period.

>>>>>>>>>>Take half of those 10 and they already have babies out of wedlock, are on drugs themselves, are golddiggers, are strippers/prostitutes, etc. It cuts both ways my dear.>>>>>>

I never hear white or latino men dog their entire race of women. You must hang in terrible circles since I have rarely met any of the black women such as those that you describe.....I know doctors, lawyers, air traffic controllers, XRAY techs and even electricians......However, lets not discuss the OBVIOUS SHORTAGE OF BLACK MEN...that'S just lotsa whining, waaaaa, waaaa!!! ....Let's discuss the solution, hmmmm?

Solution to the Shortage of black men:

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially.:love:

Okay, then what are black women such as yourself so concerned about then with all the white men with degrees to go around? I mean, the solution should be obvious. Black women who feel like you should just date white men and stop complaining about black men. It's easy and really cuts down on discussions like this, which are fruitless.

************************************************** *
>>>Okay, then what are black women such as yourself so concerned about then with all the white men with degrees to go around? I mean, the solution should be obvious. Black women who feel like you should just date white men and stop complaining about black men. It's easy and really cuts down on discussions like this, which are fruitless.>>>
************************************************** *

Oh it's far from fruitless, I support women. I support white and black women. I definitely don't like to see them used by black men that use them as trophies!! If I could send the DATE OUT article to every black female teenager inthe country...I would....It does not say to exlcude (unlike what many black men do), but it does say to KEEP ALL your options open!! :heart:

It is time black women started dating out. Out as in interracially out. Out as in dating white, Latino, Asian and Native American men out. Here are a few reasons why I think dating interracially isn’t only an option, it’s a necessity:

Kobe Bryant, Tiger “Cablanasian” Woods, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Jason Williams, Scottie Pippen, Cuba Gooding, Quincy Jones (each of the four times he was married), Clarence Thomas (thank goodness), Taye Diggs. All are married to or dating white women. We can’t list the number of brothers in the NBA, the NFL and Major League Baseball who date white women exclusively. There just isn’t enough disk space.

Now imagine if I said Oprah, Halle, Vivica, Jada, Vanessa, Erykah, Lauryn, Whitney, Aretha, Venus and Serena were all married or engaged to white men. Or if I said they only date and marry white men and have no time whatsoever for black men. Imagine if it were true. What would be the response of black men? We all get the picture, and it’s not a good feeling.

The message these men’s dating pattern sends to young black women and black men, as well as the rest of the American public, is that black women are not worthy. They are not beautiful enough; they are not deserving enough.

Interracial dating is all for the good. In the best cases it leads to greater understanding between the races. Let me say this at the outset: I am an interracial dater. My primary criteria are respect, compassion and absolute devotion. The best scenario for humanity is for us to love without regard to race, class or ethnicity.

I have no problem with anyone dating interracially, but what I do consider pathological is the trend wherein many successful black men date and marry only white women. It’s as if having a white woman on one’s arm is a barometer of success for many black men, like winning a playoff ring.

The dating habits of these black men reflect the corrosive effects of slavery on their thinking: The notion that the white woman, the prime jewel in the white man’s crown, is a symbol of status, of achievement, of long-established standards of “beauty.”

It is a sad fact of life that people often attach greater value to things that are desired by others. Right now black men are under the mistaken impression that because black women have refrained from dating interracially in significant numbers, especially since the interracial dating boom in the sixties, the only option available to us is black men. They mistakenly believe that no other group of men desires us. And that if they do want us it is only as an after hour, behind-closed-doors booty call. Of course this is far from the case. Other men have always approached black women.

But because of history and the deleterious effects of slavery, discrimination and racism, we have often been skeptical of their reasons for pursuing us. Understandably, when invited out by white men we wondered if they were just trying to see what it was like with a black girl, if they believed the sex was wilder and more primitive, or if they were motivated by a guilt complex.

Further, the myth, perpetuated by slavery and racism, is that white men don’t see us. Though untrue, this myth makes it harder for us to trust them. The fact is that during slavery, when black humanity was questioned, white men constantly bedded us. It was rape – the assertion of the powerful over the powerless – I agree, but if they desired us when we were deemed the ‘other,’ almost alien, why would they now no longer do so?

It doesn’t make sense. Sure, the efforts of the media, by and large, have been to render the black woman’s beauty, intelligence and desirability invisible, or to make her an unattractive, ball-busting harpy, with strange hair, strange skin, strange ways. But all of that hasn’t stopped white men from wanting us.

In fact, according to US census figures black female-white male marriages have quadrupled in the last decade. There’s a simple reason for this, besides our beauty and intellect: the natural attraction that occurs between human beings given exposure and proximity. Black women are graduating from universities and entering the professional workforce at twice the rate of black men. We are working much more closely with white men. This gives the lie to the black male professional’s excuse that he can’t meet or find black women on his level. More than any other group of women, black female professionals tend to ignore economic disparity when marrying. This also undermines the frequent assertion by black men that black women are more materialistic than white women, and hence unattractive as marrying partners. If we were so materialistic we’d be pursuing and marrying only men on our socio-economic level, frequently white men.

Though the number of black females dating interracially is increasing it is still minimal compared to the number of black men dating and marrying white women. This is because most of us are still suspicious of white men. I say it is time black women stop approaching interracial dating with an inferiority complex; approach it from a position of strength. Believe me, white women do not question why black men desire them. These girls have the ultimate diva complex. We need to take a lesson from them. Believe in our beauty, our intellect and our strength. The same power and instinct we use to weed out the jerks and weirdoes from among black men can be utilized on white, Latino, Asian and Native American men.

Let’s face facts: there is a limited pool of black men. White women have been wandering into our section of the pool for a very long time. It is time we wandered into theirs. There’s no reason to keep the pool color-coded. Jim Crow is dead in the toilets, at the restaurants, and it’s about time it was buried when it comes to dating, sex and marriage.

Until black men see that black women are wanted and desired by other men, until they see that we have options and are not entirely dependent on them for our emotional, spiritual and physical needs, many of them will continue to treat us like second-class citizens, the leftovers at the smorgasbord, the dish that nobody wants.

It is time we black women reasserted our selves. Start dating out. Don’t do it out of revenge. Don’t do it to teach them a lesson. To do so would only cheapen and debase us. Do date out so we can broaden our options and our horizons. Do date out because the human family is a smorgasbord of possibility. Do date out to strengthen our respect from, and our future with, black men. Let’s value ourselves. Let’s free ourselves.

Maxine Smith....free lance author NYC

We spend a lot of time talking about how many women there are for every man,instead of how many good women there are for every good man.

Negative, there IS a shortage of MEN!! There are only 5 black men to every 10 black women...Check it out!! You are incorrect. I am not talking about how all men are capable of dogging our women. I am fully aware of that!! I would much rather weed through men that are only after the punani than try to figure out if a black man's own color makes his skin crawl!!!! At least with white men, I know they are not with me SEKING STATUS!! Man, that is a nice feeling. I could never be sure with MANY (not all) BALCK MEN. LIGHTSKINNED BLACK WOMEN AND WHITE WOMEN are not on this planet to be used by self hating black men. You assume to much cookie!! I am with a man that flies F-18's while you eat wheaties and watch Scooby Doo on Saturday mornings!! Don't turn this into what my choices were. YOU DON'T KNOW ME KNEE GROW!! Do you know me???? THERFORE YOUR STATEMENT OF FACT IS BULL ****. You are a typical black man that thinks black women should just hang out and be alone while black men (since the 60's) have been dating white women in droves!!! In massive numbers....they don't marry them like white men marry us...but black men have been dating out in massive numbers. 50% of all black men that make over 50K are married to NON BLACK WOMEN!!! These women are not getting good men for the most part. Many of them are empty pits. This empty pit phrase was from a white girlfriend of mine that had a run in with one of the BLACK MEN!!!

Solution to the Shortage of black men:

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially

Here is a great exceprt for those of you that try to BLAME BLACK WOMEN BECAUSE YOU SEE YOUR REFLECTION IN BLACK WOMEN...A REFLECTION THAT YOU CAN'T BEAR BECAUE MANY OF YOU ARE FILLED WITH SELF HATRED..STOP BLAMING THE BLACK WOMAN..WE ARE GETTING IT...WE ARE GOING TO DATE OUT MORE AND MORE...LOL....Maybe you black men are getting a little taste of what we black women have to put up with from you on a day to day basis. We have to put up with racisms, sexisms, colorisms and even the hatred that you have for us on a day to day basis. Look at you, complaining now that the tables are turned. You get on t.v. and call us hoes sluts *******. You try to hold us back in every way you can when it comes to us trying to achieve. You would rather anyone do good for themselves but us. You try your best to tear us down emotionally. How dare you get upset now that you're getting a taste of what you dish out. It takes a heartless person to do everything in your power to tear a woman down the way you black men do. You ask us to stand by you and support you emotionally, who have you ever stood by and supported emotionally, certainly not black women! I suggest you take a look in the mirror before you point the finger at black women. You say we are difficult and make bad choices...WHY? Because we have been faithfully CHOOSING YOU!! We have been here as you head out to the suburbs and leave your community. Don't blame us, you started this mass exodus, and guess what??? Black women are going to finish it....White men over here!! white men over here!!!! LOL...We'll be just fine!!

It's easy (and glib) to blame the "sexual revolution" of the 1960s for the breakdown of the family, but a lot more went into that breakdown than baby boomer hedonism, feminism and the Pill. In search of "root causes," James Q. Wilson, in his new book, 'The Marriage Problem," observes that a man shortage has been a major contributing factor.

When there are more men than women, men work harder to please women, showing off desirable characteristics such as steadiness, reliability and sexual restraint. What one man doesn't offer, another man will. When there's a shortage of men, women are less demanding, indulging irresponsible behavior and taking on sexual liaisons with men who aren't desirable as husbands.

"In the first case, women have a lot of bargaining power and so find it easier to get men to marry and stay with them," writes Mr. Wilson. "In the second case, women have less bargaining power and so must settle for what they can get."

In 1970, there were considerably fewer unmarried white men between the ages of 23 to 27 than white women aged 20 to 24. The deficit grew worse for unmarried women as they got older. A gap between eligible men and women persisted into the 1980s and 1990s, especially as women married later. This kind of ratio affects cultural mores on a local level, too. New York and Washington have many more single women than men. (You can judge for yourself how that affects behavior.) Rock Springs, Wyo., on the other hand, has a major shortage of women.

The disparity between the sexes has played out differently for blacks and whites. Slavery, of course, determined which black men could stay with their families and naturally contributed to family breakdown. Today, high numbers of young black men are in prison, and higher rates of alcoholism and drug abuse among black men than among black women make them a scarce commodity. Women like to marry "up" - or at least move laterally - and many more black women than black men attend college, further reducing marriage possibilities for ambitious black women.

The cycle that begins with a man shortage when men and women are in their 20s creates a momentum all its own, and the shortage collides with other social issues as they grow older. So what to do? There is no panacea, but a robust debate on the virtues of marriage, the importance of family stability and two-parent families for children as well as seeking ways to bolster the family unit can't hurt.

Turning things around, as hard as it is to do, may be easier than moving to Rock Springs.

At least with white men, I know they are not with me SEEKING STATUS!!
Oh really? They arent seek sex either I suppose? Perhaps you can explain what is it about you that a black man would have his status enhanced by your presence?>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would much rather weed through the men that are just after sex than have the additional burden of weeding through black men that HATE themselves!! Light skinned black women and white women were not put on this earth to be the Black Man's so called TROPHY. I am not going to break it down to you, you know exactly what I am talking about.

You can check the US census Bureau for the stats on men that make over 50K....the fact is that 50% of black men that make this amount do not marry black women. Have you ever been to California. I dare you to hit the suburbs and tell me how many black men in anything nicer than an Accord have a black woman in the passenger seat. LOL. Black men have issues in this country and all they can do is blame the black woman. The figures don't lie. There are plenty of men to go around as long as black women DATE OUT. If they don't date out, they will more than likely be alone as black men continue on their misguided smorgasbord.

I have to agree with dbaraka. What happened to equating the
number of suitable women for all the suitable men? We have
to stop factoring "black" into the equation like being "black" is
somekind of disease. We need to become more comfortable in our own skin and stop thinking white is right and black isn't about jack. Regardless of who you choose to marry, focus on
making progress toward achieving equality so that who we
choose to date, where we choose to live, where we goto school, and where we choose to do business is suitable for everyone in
the general public irregardless of their color, creed, gender, or
religion.



;)

pd

>>I can assume you are either light skinned or white. >>

You CAN assume that I am black. How's that? Is that ok with you? Thanks ....

>>Perhaps you should go to the main library in your city and check the stats from the 1890s to now.>>>

1890's???? LOL, huh? I am talking about the interracial dating boom that has been happening since the 1960's. Black men are 3 times more likely to marry interracially than black women. That statistic is only in reference to marriage, nothing is cited for 'relationships outside of marriage' (relationships with no marriage, since black men don't marry as often as white). The farther West you head in the country, it is very evident to anyone with VISION. Why is the number of BM/WF so disproportionate??? Even though black women are in the workplace to a greater extent than black men with more opportunity to date interracially. Black women have historically been very loyal to the "BLACK MAN" until these most recent years. It seems to me that you need to ask black men the queston of the DIRE CONSEQUENCES they faced when they looked at white women. However, I think that is a hateful question, because this is 2003!! If an IR is done FOR LOVE, who cares??? Love is love is love!! Hello?? Don't ask me the question of the past dire consequences, I exclusively dated black men for a decade. Although I never had to deal with cheaters, I was aware of the emptiness of many of them (not all). Consequently, many of them are on their 3rd or 4th white wives.

>>>> I think you will find that any men going that way is a recent phenomenon. >>>>

Since the 1960's....okkkay, that is recent in some people's eyes. As soon as the flood gates were open however, black men were sure there AT THE READY, huh? Black women didn't flood the gates looking for white men, but black men sure did. lol

>>>>Moreover, you seem to forget the historic dire consequences that black men suffered for even looking at white women. Or maybe you're conveniently ignoring them. >>>>>

A question more suitably suited for your fellow brethren, not me. I am very aware of history. I am very aware that 40% of black children still live in poverty as black men have fleed to the suburbs with their trophy white girl (not all). I am aware that black children in Boston and South Central have to share books!! All of this as the black man leaves 70% of black household to be run by black WOMEN. Oh, I am aware and have a GOOD memory. :)

Some Black women turn Black men off with their negativity and their need to control every aspect of the relationship. Many Black women pray for a man but don't know the first thing about getting and keeping one. I happen to know many Black men who prefer Black women.

And some of those men didn't leave their children, they were pushed out of their children's lives. Most Black women tend to be emotional when discussing issues instead of being logical.

>>>Some Black women turn Black men off with their negativity and their need to control every aspect of the relationship. Many Black women pray for a man but don't know the first thing about getting and keeping one. I happen to know many Black men who prefer Black women. >>>>

None of the black women I know...Improve your social circle!! However, you sound like a white woman that has been fed a load of crap by her black husband.....hmmm?

>>>And some of those men didn't leave their children, they were pushed out of their children's lives. Most Black women tend to be emotional when discussing issues instead of being logical.>>

Yeah right!! LOL...whatever. Again, your social circle needs imroving. The black women I know are awesome professionals and together women!!

The women I refer to are not in my social circle. I work as a volunteer so I see cases like this all the time in all economic and educational backgrounds.

I am definitely a Black women. However, I am an enlightened one who sees beyond a narrow view. The women in my "social circle" don't have a problem with our men. The secret? We know how to select a "Man" and not a "facade of a man". We also realize that the differences we have from men are not weaknesses but our strengths. We love our men and support them as they do us.

If you mean by being a professional and together woman, one that is successful in her career and is actively involved. Those qualities do not always give a women the necessary mental resources to maintain a healthy relationship.

Some Black women are so afraid of being controlled by a Black man they sabotage their relationships. You don't think the White man controls you? You don't think the White woman controls you? They want the Black man and the Black woman to clash so we won't notice how they further erode our families.

Sisters better take notice...there will be more women looking at the Black man...namely the latino women.

>>>I am definitely a Black women. However, I am an enlightened one who sees beyond a narrow view. The women in my "social circle" don't have a problem with our men. The secret? We know how to select a "Man" and not a "facade of a man". We also realize that the differences we have from men are not weaknesses but our strengths. We love our men and support them as they do us. >>>>>

Many black men do not support black women. I know screwed up black and white women, that's not the point. The point is, is there is a shortage of available black men and black women are starting to date out mor and more.

>>>If you mean by being a professional and together woman, one that is successful in her career and is actively involved. Those qualities do not always give a women the necessary mental resources to maintain a healthy relationship.>>>

They are all in very successful relationships with black, white and hispanic men.

>>Some Black women are so afraid of being controlled by a Black man they sabotage their relationships. You don't think the White man controls you? You don't think the White woman controls you? They want the Black man and the Black woman to clash so we won't notice how they further erode our families. >>>>

Noone controls me, I don't conform that easily. The black man is doing that all by himself. STOP blaming white people for ALL of our problems.

>>>Sisters better take notice...there will be more women looking at the Black man...namely the latino women.>>>

So?....black men line up for me, I find them distateful since most are only after trophies. Many of these women that get these men are getting empty pits...woes me that they take these "QUALITY" men of the market..lol....Anyway, I have never found other women threatening, not in the least. I support women, even black female "bootlickers" have some redeeming qualities.

Black women are not standby equipment.

There are millions more unattached black women than unattached black men. Deducting from that total those black men unavailable due to substance abuse, unemployment, incarceration, involvement with white women and homosexuality results in a bleak demographic landscape for black women. Black men, certain types, will play their demographic advantage to the hilt by treating many black women as standby equipment. They play the system for what it's worth, and the pool of unattached black women is the system they play.

All too many black men choose to take on the role of sultans on the black social stage, the privileged few among the unattached many!! Black women are their standby-equipment harem girls, from whom they expect appropriate tributes. Being put on standby status means that the polygmaous sultan deems yo to be a harem girl whose services are not required for the moment. To wait on the shelf until his whim deems otherwise. Should the sultan tire of one harem girl, there are plenty more, and not all are black. Sultans cannot uderstand why any harem girl would find fault with their system. Their view is that harem membership is ample reward enough and black women should be gratelful. You have no LEVERAGE over these sultans, because they have no incentive to change. There's nothing to be gained. don't be fooled by the ficticious carrots they dangle to induce black women to pull their social lives along. They offer nothing of substance. SHOULD YOU LIMIT YOUR SOCIALIZING TO CERTAIN TYPES OF BLACK SULTANS, your only rewards will be empty promises and endless reassurances, as far into the future as the eye can see. Black women that make the mistake of taking on the role of standby equipment status leave themselves no choice but to contort their lives to fill the role expectations that go with being a spare tire.

Standby equipment is a role with no room for emotional growth. Do not trim yourself down to suit a sultan's lowly expectations. Standby status is a game you are predestined to lose. Closing your mind to reality in front of you blcoks you from moving beyond standby status. Walk out and find a game with better odds.

Apparently, you don't run in the right social circle as far as the men that approach you. I know plenty of educated (and education doesn't necessarily have to be formal, it can be self-education), upright, responsible brothers who would love to have a "good" woman. You don't think Black women want "Trophy" men? Ha! You should hear some of the things I have heard from professional, educated women in the ATL. Most won't even look at a brother if he doesn't make six figures.

I don't play the Sultan game...never have...never will. To be respected, you must command respect and live respectfully.

Apparently, you don't run in the right social circle as far as the men that approach you. I know plenty of educated (and education doesn't necessarily have to be formal, it can be self-education), upright, responsible brothers who would love to have a "good" woman. >>>

Did I ever say ALL, goofball.....you are not very creative...I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up the black men I have known. Call me bitter too....lol...You would really be creative there. I also know good black men...I know black men that have notice the same things about black men. So do you!

>>You don't think Black women want "Trophy" men? Ha! You should hear some of the things I have heard from professional, educated women in the ATL. Most won't even look at a brother if he doesn't make six figures. >>>

Again, not in my circles, but I am sure they do exist. However I am positive it is not to the extent of the black male self hatred. These women are after GREEN....White or black mean nothing...It is GREEN. Black men will leave a professional woman on a military base overseas to hook up and marry a bruised up skinny h o of the streets. Ever been to Canada with a group of BLACK men???...LOL

I don't play the Sultan game...never have...never will. To be respected, you must command respect and live respectfully.

Never say never...:)

There, there...let's not result in name-calling. We can agree to disagree... I can assure you, a goof-ball I am not and I refuse to get my hands dirty.

Oh, a woman can choose not to play the Sultan game...believe me...

Young women walk by in tight skirts, designer tops, high heels and makeup -- looking like they're going to a club instead of calculus.

But when you're at a school with nearly 3,600 women and only 1,500 men, some women don't want to miss an opportunity to look their best and catch the eyes of some of the campus' high-demand males.

"It will for a lot of guys," acknowledges freshman Naqwanna Taylor, "but I don't think those are the ones you're looking for."

Around the country, colleges are becoming increasingly more female, but the imbalance is even greater at historically black colleges such as Clark, which is 71 percent women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some students say it creates a campus culture in which women desperately try to attract college-educated black males, and men act like commitment-phobic "dawgs" because they can pick and choose from a surplus of women.

Historically black colleges:

Clark Atlanta (Atlanta) -- 71 percent female, 29 percent male

Morris Brown (Atlanta) -- 61 percent female, 39 percent male

Xavier University (New Orleans) -- 70 percent female, 30 percent male

Howard University (Washington) -- 64 percent female, 36 percent male

Other colleges:

University of Georgia:

All students -- 56.5 percent female, 43.5 percent male

Black students -- 66.5 female, 33.5 percent male

Florida State University:

All students -- 56 percent female, 44 percent male

Black students -- 66 percent female, 34 percent male

Georgia State:

All students -- 60 percent female, 40 percent male

Black students -- 72 percent female, 28 percent male

The Associated Press

"It's interesting, because I think African American women are the only group of women that are more resistant to [dating outside their race] than any other group. And yet, you all are the pool who probably have the least options," Chapman says. "You find that you're more committed to men who are not all that committed to you, which is really ironic to me."

Originally posted by morenaseis
... Did I ever say ALL, goofball ...Morenaseis ... please refrain from calling other Members out of their name ... it's not allowed here. Thanks.

:heart:

Destee

A few years ago I met an attractive black man in Los Angeles. "I usually don't date black women," he told me, "but I find you so intriguing." I guess he thought I should be flattered, but instead I was quite disturbed. Rather than see me as his equal, he saw me as some sort of scientific oddity.

An AOL website claims that most white females that make over 50K a year don't want to date black men. That's probably true, but I'm not particularly surprised or concerned. As a black woman, I'm more concerned with black men who refuse to date other black women.

Is love blind?

A few years ago, I met a very attractive, articulate, professional black man at a charity event. I was so excited to meet him that night that I even added a comment about him during the speech I gave later that evening.

Following the speech, I eagerly approached him at his table. He smiled and we talked for a moment before he politely introduced me to his girlfriend. I was disappointed that he was involved in a relationship, and to be honest, I was even more disappointed that his partner was a very, very average looking white woman.

Despite my disappointment, we exchanged business cards and agreed to stay in touch, which we did. Over the years, my new friend told me about the difficulties of his relationship. His girlfriend apparently had repeatedly cheated on him, which actually surprised me. From my perspective, the girlfrien definintley had the better end of the deal. She had no reason to be cheating on my friend.

For the life of me, I could not understand why my friend was so upset about the end of this relationship. From my narrow perspective, he should have been happy to be free to find a better partner. But love doesn't let go easily. My friend was heartbroken, and I was confused.

I had tried to make my friend into something he wasn't. I had wanted him to date black women also, like himself, but he seemed so uninterested. I had learned something new about interracial dating. Some black men simply aren't interested in other black women.

Another friend, a successful black professional, often complained to me that he could not find black women of his "caliber." Black women, he said, were often loud and difficult and uneducated with 2 or 3 children. After searching for a year or two, he settled down in a relationship with a white woman who worked as a nurses assistant. It seems my friend was actually less interested in his partner's caliber than in his race.

Why couldn't he just tell the truth? He did not want to date a black women!! He wanted a white woman instead. To catch his eye, a black woman would have to be twice as gorgeous and twice as successful as an average white woman!!!

A sensitive issue

Although some would prefer to sweep the issue under the rug, interracial dating is still a very controversial subject in the black community. Yet anyone who dares to question almost any form of interracial dating is immediately challenged, criticized and dismissed by the "PC police." Those involved in interracial relationships are often the most sensitive about the issue when questions are raised.

For the record, I think adults should be free to date whoever they want. I have dated a virtual rainbow coalition of men in my life, including blacks, whites, Latinos and Asian-Americans. Today I prefer white men, but I would not entirely rule out the possibility of dating someone of my own race.

Interracial dating doesn't bother me. Nor am I bothered by segregated dating, as when whites prefer other whites or blacks prefer other blacks. I think this is a natural extension of our comfort levels with people like ourselves. Nevertheless, such preferences — particularly when they become absolute exclusions — could reflect some level of sel loathing.

Why do we exclude our own?

What does concern me is when black men consciously choose not to date other black women. I can understand when a black man dates outside of his race. I cannot understand when a black man refuses to date within his race. Such exclusion, it seems to me, is rooted in deep self hatred.

A few years ago I met an attractive black man in Los Angeles. "I usually don't date black women," he told me, "but I find you intriguing." I guess he thought I should be flattered, but instead I was disturbed. Rather than see me as his equal, he saw me as some sort of scientific oddity.

Of course there are intelligent black women out there. Anear black men announce they've "given up on black women!!!" after an unsuccessful relationship. "Black men have too many issues," one white woman told me.

All relationships have issues. In fact, interracial relationships must often navigate through difficult questions of racial comfort and sincerity that don't appear in most same-race relationships. In interracial dating, we often find ourselves asking, "Does this person see beyond my race or will he show his true colors when the chips are down?"

Whatever issues white men face, self hatred is not one of them when it comes to their racial identity. That's why I'm more concerned about black men excluding other blacks than I am about white men excluding other whites from their respective dating pools.

In a culture that devalues black males and elevates white males, it is not likely that white male racial self-exclusion is rooted in self hatred than it would be with black males. After all, white men have no reason to hate themselves in a society that reinforces their privilege. Black men, on the other hand, are repeatedly assaulted by messages that communicate our alleged inferiority.

Let's face it — why should I chase somebody who doesn't want me? I have no interest in spending my time trying to get a prejudiced black man to look at me in a bar . I'd rather spend my time talking to that cute, intelligent white man. A man that doesn't see my color as a stepping stone to ill perceived status!! :toast:

Morenaseis ... this is the 3rd time I've asked you not to add content to this forum that belongs to anyone other than yourself.

If you want to maintain posting priviledges on this forum don't do this again ... I won't be asking anymore.

Destee

While I agree with most of the reasons for the "black male shortage", I have to say that alot of the blame is on us as women. We have spoiled our black men from birth to the grave. We tend to raise our daughters to be self-sufficient, they often see other black women struggling in the absence of a black male figure. We spoil our sons thinking that a good man is hard to find, and they've got a hard row to hoe in this world. But we are doing our men a grave disservice. The world is rough, on both sides of the gender coin,but that's never been an excuse for me to give up or become lazy. Think of the men you know....How many have excuses for their behavior that we as women take as gospel? Think of the females you know....how many are doing the job of 10 men while their "man" gets to play single. The reality is...if we raise our sons into the men that we look for but don't ever find, we could change a generation so that there will be no shortage.

I adore REAL black men. And they love me too. They are friends, family, and heros who are NEVER haunted by the truths that I pen, because they live as shining exceptions to them. To those brothers who are my enemies, whom I disrespect and loathe with passion and glee: If the shoes that you find herein fit you, then lace them up and STEP OFF!!!

For every single mother, there are MORE absent fathers! For every exhausted grandmother, forced to rear her grandchildren, left by the selfish, abusive, incarcerated, there are MORE grandfathers who have been absent for DECADES! For every Black woman who dates white men, there are FAR MORE brothers who date white women exclusively. Whoopi Goldberg is bashed for dating rich white men, while O. J. Simpson is praised as some hero for marrying (and murdering) a teen-aged waitress who was a high school dropout.

I adore REAL black men. And they love me too. They are friends, family, and heros who are NEVER haunted by the truths that I pen, because they live as shining exceptions to them. To those brothers who are my enemies, whom I disrespect and loathe with passion and glee: If the shoes that you find herein fit you, then lace them up and STEP OFF!!!

They saw Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second..........

Does their 'GOD' find fault with the many ills affecting the Black community because of ruthless, stupid behavior by Black males. Indeed, he bypasses the fact that Black males colloborated with the original white devil, slaveholders in getting his own woman, in shackles and brought to the white man's midst. Of course, not all Black males participated in this ultimate betrayal, but enough did, that Africa was left decimated. Not only that, but once the Black woman was on the shores of Amerikk, there are many incidents recorded where the Black male, who was promoted to overseer, in some cases, would himself sexually harass and violate the Black woman, so much so, that she would run away to get away from such cruelty. One recorded incident shows the Black woman, living in the woods, among alligators, snakes, and other vicious animals, for fear of her well-being, by Black males, if she returned. Her death would have been on such black males head.

Some black males, have beaten, violated, oppressed, killed Black women, yet certain religious segments, speaking of 'nation time' have only heard the voice of God, make specific laws against Black women, while making no exceptional 'mule' laws against Black males who have brought drugs into the community, systematically killing one another, betray one another, refuse to educate themselves, steal, kill and destroy from innocent Black men, women and children, Their SO-CALLED GOD, ignores the greater evil, to CURSE THE BLACK WOMAN AS A BETRAYER TO THE BLACK MAN FOR TRYING TO BETTER HER FAMILY AND HERSELF. Such Black women, when not seeing the above mentioned on-going atrocities, saw Black men prefer the white woman, or those closest to white, while denigrating the natural hued Black woman. They saw, Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second class. They saw this and many other evils, and their reaction was to better themselves, by educating themselves, and working but the Black male segment who embraces this demonic ideology saw, and sees, their efforts as BETRAYAL OF THE BLACK MAN.

This dangerous, brutal, savage, mentality that embraces such ideology is set to destroy the Black woman. Such organizations and individuals who embrace such evil, will be quick to cry 'Black power' and "I'm against the MAN for mistreating my woman', but that ideology shows that they are mistreating their women by so embracing it. 'A nation's rise to greatness, depends on how it treats its women' and if you believe your 'woman' if you will, is responsible for your sorry plight, you cannot very well, love, or respect that woman, rather you hate that woman.' Hence, if you hate the woman, you cannot rise to prominence for you do not have the wherewithal to protect, respect, and uplift the woman.

Oh, I could go on and on, with the affects of dangerous ideology on the mindset of warped, confused, colored boys, who are not fit to be called Black. These overgrown brutes do nothing but show themselves ultimate losers, who cannot think a rational thought to save their lives, and since, we see rampant self-afflicted death via gang bangings, and the such, we know that the ilk has allowed the white devil to keep them enslaved brutes to their godless will. Hence, the fight for liberation that goes on by righteous Black women, must arise and not only oppose the white devil, but these wounded brutes, who are hell-bent on hating and destroying the Black woman. They weren't or aren't man or wise enough to stand up to the white devil, so like the ultimate, cowardly, weaklings that they have been turned into by their white masters, they show themselves so, in promoting such ill doctrine against the one person who would see them do well, if they act righteous, the AWESOME BLACK WOMAN! So be it, awesome Black woman, FIGHT THE ENEMY WITHIN AND WITHOUT FOR THE DIVINE REMAINS WITH YOU ALONE, AS ALWAYS!!!!!

Well, you are definitley a black "man" that stands in the truth :) It is a sad truth but true all the same :(


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I happen to be a Legitimate replica of a black man(real black man, although i'm 19).
I'd have to agree, that most black men are the cause of "sista sufferage"...and also, that black men percieve black women as "secondary" in value.
This was my hypothesis of "Scapegoat" attitudes.
As the year advances, i'm sorry to report this, but these "scapegoat" attitudes are on the rise.

Of course, the brothers will have their hypocritical views when a sista dates a white man in an alternate manner. But hey, if there aren't enough black men for black women, then why should "scapegoat" motivated black males even be concerned

I don't see any Black men as my enemy...when you become their enemy, you lose the chance to reach out to each other.

Don't always assume that because you see a Black man with a white woman it is because of hatred for a Black woman. My brother doesn't date Black women. Why you wonder? It is not because he doesn't find them attractive or doesn't want to, it's because the majority of Black women think he is a nerd and tells him he acts and talks white!

Sometimes Black men date white women (I mentioned this before) because they can do it without getting lynched. They are thumbing their nose up at the men who forcibly took their women for centuries. Not all Black men treat these women well...

We have some brothers who think other women than Black women are the epitome of beauty, but there are many more that think we are the goddesses of the earth. Let's focus on those and continue to raise more men like them.

I don't see any Black men as my enemy...when you become their enemy, you lose the chance to reach out to each other. >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Neither do I...My best friend is a black man. He is a man that loves ALL women....he does not discriminate...lol

Don't always assume that because you see a Black man with a white woman it is because of hatred for a Black woman. My brother doesn't date Black women. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't, my mother is white and my father was/is not a self hater...I have run acorss my fair share of these repugnant men and so have many of my friends (both black and white girlfriends). White men or light skinned black women that tend to be MAGNETS FOR THIS TYPE OF MAN don't deserve it and what's wrong with a little advice/warning. Black women period need to date out and expand dating options.

Originally posted by morenaseis
They saw Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second..........

Does their 'GOD' find fault with the many ills affecting the Black community because of ruthless, stupid behavior by Black males. Indeed, he bypasses the fact that Black males colloborated with the original white devil, slaveholders in getting his own woman, in shackles and brought to the white man's midst. Of course, not all Black males participated in this ultimate betrayal, but enough did, that Africa was left decimated. Not only that, but once the Black woman was on the shores of Amerikk, there are many incidents recorded where the Black male, who was promoted to overseer, in some cases, would himself sexually harass and violate the Black woman, so much so, that she would run away to get away from such cruelty. One recorded incident shows the Black woman, living in the woods, among alligators, snakes, and other vicious animals, for fear of her well-being, by Black males, if she returned. Her death would have been on such black males head.

Some black males, have beaten, violated, oppressed, killed Black women, yet certain religious segments, speaking of 'nation time' have only heard the voice of God, make specific laws against Black women, while making no exceptional 'mule' laws against Black males who have brought drugs into the community, systematically killing one another, betray one another, refuse to educate themselves, steal, kill and destroy from innocent Black men, women and children, Their SO-CALLED GOD, ignores the greater evil, to CURSE THE BLACK WOMAN AS A BETRAYER TO THE BLACK MAN FOR TRYING TO BETTER HER FAMILY AND HERSELF. Such Black women, when not seeing the above mentioned on-going atrocities, saw Black men prefer the white woman, or those closest to white, while denigrating the natural hued Black woman. They saw, Black men get power and uphold the white man's concept of beauty, while denigrating the natural Black woman as unattractive or second class. They saw this and many other evils, and their reaction was to better themselves, by educating themselves, and working but the Black male segment who embraces this demonic ideology saw, and sees, their efforts as BETRAYAL OF THE BLACK MAN.

This dangerous, brutal, savage, mentality that embraces such ideology is set to destroy the Black woman. Such organizations and individuals who embrace such evil, will be quick to cry 'Black power' and "I'm against the MAN for mistreating my woman', but that ideology shows that they are mistreating their women by so embracing it. 'A nation's rise to greatness, depends on how it treats its women' and if you believe your 'woman' if you will, is responsible for your sorry plight, you cannot very well, love, or respect that woman, rather you hate that woman.' Hence, if you hate the woman, you cannot rise to prominence for you do not have the wherewithal to protect, respect, and uplift the woman.

Oh, I could go on and on, with the affects of dangerous ideology on the mindset of warped, confused, colored boys, who are not fit to be called Black. These overgrown brutes do nothing but show themselves ultimate losers, who cannot think a rational thought to save their lives, and since, we see rampant self-afflicted death via gang bangings, and the such, we know that the ilk has allowed the white devil to keep them enslaved brutes to their godless will. Hence, the fight for liberation that goes on by righteous Black women, must arise and not only oppose the white devil, but these wounded brutes, who are hell-bent on hating and destroying the Black woman. They weren't or aren't man or wise enough to stand up to the white devil, so like the ultimate, cowardly, weaklings that they have been turned into by their white masters, they show themselves so, in promoting such ill doctrine against the one person who would see them do well, if they act righteous, the AWESOME BLACK WOMAN! So be it, awesome Black woman, FIGHT THE ENEMY WITHIN AND WITHOUT FOR THE DIVINE REMAINS WITH YOU ALONE, AS ALWAYS!!!!! Morenaseis ... are these your own words ... or someone else's ?

Destee

Yes, let's get back on the subject...

I just saw the movie "Deliver Us From Eva" and it was very cute/funny. The men in the theater seemed to really like it since they sure were laughing. What I liked about it is the fact that it showed BEAUTIFUL black women. Just something that has been avoided until recent years (thanks John Travolta). These women exemplify just a small portion of the beauty, passion well roundedness of the BLACK women I have known and currently know. Women just like any other woman of any other race. I hope we see more examples in the MASS MEDIA of just how stunning black women are (although I am fair, in my opinion, the darker, the more beautiful)...I hope every SELF HATING BLACK MAN (if not applicable, move on) that has settled for the fat, greasy haired white girl, the one with a perpetual hole/run in her panty hose and a stick up her butt thinking she has a prize when poor baby really has a self hater...Again, I hope these SELF HATING BLACK MEN cringe in their seats and kick themselves in the a s s for hating and dogging their entire race of women (Again! if not applicable, move on!). To thine own self be true...if this offends you, then it's probably you I am referring too...I would hate to be you and look myself in the mirror!! No woman, white or light-skinned black deserves to be used by you scumbags as a trophy to soothe the pain of your soul......LOL.

Black women need to realize that these men don't hate black women, they hate themselves. The reflection of themselves that they see makes their skin crawl. DATE OUT LADIES and EXPAND the pool of men that you have to CHOOSE from. Don't be a pan on the smorgasbord line for BLACK men to pick over. Especially those same black men that EXCLUSIVELY date WHITE.

I believe also that it has a lot to do with slavery. Many slaves married while in captivity but was seperated by their owners. Families was split up leaving the man and woman not knowing the true meaning of commitment. As generations produced this pattern was still embedded in the children. Yes, black women are are angry as well as men. But instead of correcting the pattern we point our fingers at each other instead of fixing the problem.
we choose to run away from one another. There is no shortage of black men. Just misunderstanding of the sexes.

I agree with the last post, as far as all the finger pointing goes, but I don't believe there are enough black women looking for a black man to treat them well, at least their not looking for me. In the past two weeks I have been stood up by black women, propositioned by married black women (who assumed that I would help her cheat, since I'm a black man), and called lame when it was discovered that I am honorable. Another black woman at my job is complaining and crying because her husband of four years is mistreating her. The problem is, she knew he was the way he was 10 years and x-number of kids ago. Instead of breaking away and finding a real man to date she married this one. Then the other day she's amening this other chick who was talking the same ol' "black men ain't no good" crap.This is why the whole "black male shortage" thing really pisses me off, and to be perfectly honest, I have no sympathy for black women these days. If black women really wanted the kind of man they claim they do they would have one. I know too many single brothers like myself who are flat out ignored in favor of men they know are no good.

black women need to start dating out and getting it on with white men and other races. black men are no good. now i am happily married for 20 years with a good men that loves me and treats me like a queen (I mean that literally).

I believe the perception of "black male shortage" is just a perception. What is really happening is that men and women are finding it hard to connect on the same level. Our expectations varies depending on our options (financial stats, location, physical attractiveness, mentality, etc). That makes it seem like there is a shortage.

When I go out to clubs, yes, most of the time there are more women in the crowd than men. We do out number them. Where are the brothers? As mentioned before jail, homos, etc. are a factor. But, what about the ones who work and don't hang out? What about the ones who are just at home entertaining or somewhere else like a friends house b-b-quing...etc? Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they are not out there.

Go where the men are and you will see them:

1. sporting event/sports bar
2. grocery store (late at night because they don't like crowds)
3. barbar shop
4. auto parts store
5. men's clothing department
6. Best Buy/Circuit City
7. auto show
8. church
9. gym
10. associations/organizations (attend the fund raisers)

Quality brothers are doing something positive with their lives. Quality brothers want quality women.

I don't buy into the shortage myth. There is one out there for me!

Those Black women that advocate dating out----remember men are men. They can cheat, kill their mates and be no good. Quick quiz- of all the shelters for battered and abused women-what demographic mostly inhabit them?Hint-white women! No, most of the men they are running from ain't all brothers. Another one if Black men do not take care of their children-yes there are Black men(some) out there that do. I'm asking this question and Regina or anyone else in ANY states' social service agency can help me out. States that routinely post deadbeat dad info-what pictures of men that you see the most that owe more in back child support for the longest? White men! Been awhile since I seen Alabama's (my state) but the first two years they had that program under a Republican gubertorial administrations there were few Black men that were owing thousands of dollars in back child support, but a lot of white men owing tens of thousands and even a couple owing hundreds of thousands of dollars in back child support. I am not saying that there are NO good white men, but don't assume every white man is good. One note, remember those Texas prisoners that escaped a few years ago-mostly white and Hispanic? One of the white prisoners that escaped had either a Black wife or girlfriend appealing for him to give up.

From sisters who would have lived and died for a brother... Being that i have two brothers (siblings).. but nevertheless....

Solo: You made a valid point.. woman change..not men... but we change in trying to conform to our mans needs... to be a woman... Like told my man when i met.. I feel your worth being treated like a man or something special.. then i will... We shouldn't do anything we don't have to... like cook... love you... those come with time.. and respect... and hard work on bother parties.. but you expect all that without a ring... did we miss something... how many women are tired of playing house.. and no real benefits....

Also.. a thug and lame does not correlate... cause a thug can be lame based on characteristics, lifestyle and activities... meaning.. we both came from the street... but i can be more productive not hanging in them on the weekends... thats a lame.. a lame *** unproductive thug... but an educated thug who has some point felt the wrath of the streets and works hard to stay away.. well... i call that intriguing... just remember.. lame and thug are not one in the same.... lame and cool.. and the synonyms or antonyms.. which ever.. i wasn't an english major.

morenasis: very true (interacially) black women have more a complex to dating outside their race as oppose to black men... i don't it was ever a hesitation for them... from the ones i talk to.. they say that is the best piece of ....

Solo: why we don't date outside: Its called respect, faith in our brothers and love for ourselves and culture. Why would you even say something like dhat. I feel hostility?... would you like talk?....

"Solo: why we don't date outside: Its called respect, faith in our brothers and love for ourselves and culture. Why would you even say something like dhat. I feel hostility?... would you like talk?...."

Hello.

I don't post here very often so I can't remember what I said. Anyway, the reason I would say that is because I feel that rather than complain about what black men do or don't do, just leave us alone and find someone else that is more pleasing to you. And you're right, there is some hostility...not towards anyone in particular....I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of anger in me towards black women. I have spent several years working on this, but it hasn't helped. I don't date non black women either, so that means I just don't date. That's really a whole different topic.

I guess I'll have to go back and read exactly what I posted. It's been a long time and I feel a bit different now than I did back then. I've given up on relationships since that time, so anything I said back then is moot.

Morenasis: I understand but to do so (date interacially) is to say that we have given up... personally. I can't fathom the idea of such a change and expect to be viewed in the same way... because I don't view one the same way that steps outside.. and yes.. i am being bias... I have a complex with a brother that sleeps with one... Cause personally i think its a complex with them. You must have faith in your heritage to strengthen it. Everyone is trying to find a way to compromise it

Kemet: We are not talking about mookies (categorizing the black male). We are talking about the black male in general and how they were influenced to be a mookie in some form or fashion.

And it did start in the sixities based on the location I am from and as well as my own heritage... Cause my great granddaddy is around and still married to same woman.. just not the grand daddies and beyond...

Morenasis: Segragated dating... What is that all about... do you have a complex.. or maybe you been on the west too long... that term was thrown out... And haven't we shared enough.. haven't we lacked their of... have we not already let things rides... those black men didn't stop those white men from raping those women in slavery days... were their any attempts... We must strengthen ourselves.. must help ourselves... we must have faith in ourselves.. and if you choose not to right now... then strengthen yourself... don't compromise

Toynado: You just said a mouthful.. and i agree... Our children need to be raised as ladies and gentlemen

Kem: Good point... let a child be a child.. and raise them to be a lady/gentlemen... Never accepting less from anyone...

Regina: their is plenty of other reasons to see them as an enemey.. but i won't go their... You don't always have to date them to hate/dislike them.... They are truly a class of their own... almost a race of their own... Venus and Mars holds very true...

fast typing.. please excuse any mistakes

on relationships... I just learned that it takes more time.. i think that you should take more time learning some one... as an individual.. than trying to mate and collab your life stories/style... And think that you should actually take the time.. instead of trying to work in a relationship... because a friendship lasts a life time... not a relationship.... Which has nothing to do with marriage.

It's my opinion that there is no 'shortage' of Black men and that it's all a myth. I see no where in this thread a set of facts to support this argument. Furthermore, inherent in this idea is the notion that for every girl child born that she will grow up choosing to be with a man and that's not true. Many of us have read reports claiming percentages of Black men imprisoned, on drugs, married or either gay, which has been translated into a 'shortage' of men. But as we contemplate on these so-called 'facts,' do we ever consider comparable stats on Black women or do we assume that none of us fall prey to these same conditions as well?

Too many presumptions here and not enough qualified facts to even begin to engage in some meaningful dialogue about the topic.

Of course, in my opinion...

Quality brothers are doing something positive with their lives. Quality brothers want quality women.

Well Said! :teach: :cool:

I believe also that it has a lot to do with slavery. Many slaves married while in captivity but was seperated by their owners. Families was split up leaving the man and woman not knowing the true meaning of commitment. As generations produced this pattern was still embedded in the children. Yes, black women are are angry as well as men. But instead of correcting the pattern we point our fingers at each other instead of fixing the problem.
we choose to run away from one another. There is no shortage of black men. Just misunderstanding of the sexes.

Thank you PurpleMoons! Finally in this long discussion someone who has introduced a resolution rather than harping on our problems.
There was a time when we had to secretly wed and lived in fear of being separated from each other. Now we think that we've arrived and no longer see the need for black male/black female companionship. We have both been equally damaged by time and circumstance and need to heal together through time.

We should stop believe myths created by the same people who damaged us in the first place. Those who choose to date outside. Good for them. That weeds out all the people who aren't willing to build. Black men and women are only reflections of each other. We are affected by the same things always.
Even if you marry or date or have children outside your race, or become financially well off, it dosen't change the fact that you were still born black.

Mary Mcleod Bethune said: The true worth of a race, is measured by the character of its woman.

Less division. More growth.

Thank you PurpleMoons! Finally in this long discussion someone who has introduced a resolution rather than harping on our problems.
There was a time when we had to secretly wed and lived in fear of being separated from each other. Now we think that we've arrived and no longer see the need for black male/black female companionship. We have both been equally damaged by time and circumstance and need to heal together through time.

We should stop believe myths created by the same people who damaged us in the first place. Those who choose to date outside. Good for them. That weeds out all the people who aren't willing to build. Black men and women are only reflections of each other. We are affected by the same things always.
Even if you marry or date or have children outside your race, or become financially well off, it dosen't change the fact that you were still born black.

Mary Mcleod Bethune said: The true worth of a race, is measured by the character of its woman.

Less division. More growth.
Read this carefully folks, there is no man shortage. Period. A large portion of the women who make this ascertain are frankly not worthy of the man they say they have trouble finding. Factor in the growing, bi and tri, and lesbian lifestyles of "our" women, and you will see that clearly their is no man shortage, indeed good man shortage

I don't post here much, but I would like to amen the last few posts.

Thank you.

But i still question the quality of our black male as they should do like wise... "Also agreeing with the last couple of posts..."

woman outnumber men across the board...
in all races this is true...
more men are born
but men die earlier...due to multiple reasons...
the real issue should not be da male shortage...
it should be how black men and women treat each other...
thas just my humble opinion
one love
khasm

This has been and still is a reality.

Because I'm looking around and see evidence of Black men among the "free" and living, I don't see where there is a "shortage" per se.

I've heard all the statistics about those incarcerated, gay, murdered and even the disproportionate ratio of male:female births, but still, why do we perceive it as factual proof that those circumstances leads to a shortage of men when it comes to "match-making" relationships between Black men/women? Statistically, Black women are dying faster than Black men from AIDS. Some Black women are also incarcerated, homosexual, and are murdered. When it's all said and done, where is the shortage of Black men to Black women? I guess I don't understand this logic.

Have we investigated other factors before we leap to this conclusion? Let's look at the quality of our existing relationships. What type of relationships do we want and get with each other? How many of us exclude each other for other reasons than those above? How many of us (men and women) electively remove ourselves from the category of committed relationships?

I'd really like to see some valid and objective data on this.

Well said NN

Very well put NN Queen.
Seems like bad news sells better than good news. Only way I can explain why people believe all the crap they hear out there.

i believe there is a shortage of men, and this is true ifor nearly every racial/ethnic group within the US. For Black Americans the differences in # of adult males and Adult females are greater than other groups. There are some solutions for this "problem" but Black American isn't ready to accept thesw solutions collective. By the way, I believe sometimes "we' get confused about quantity vs quality...just women outnumber men it doesn necessarily translate into men have better "quality" to chose from. :x:

i believe there is a shortage of men, and this is true ifor nearly every racial/ethnic group within the US. For Black Americans the differences in # of adult males and Adult females are greater than other groups. There are some solutions for this "problem" but Black American isn't ready to accept thesw solutions collective. By the way, I believe sometimes "we' get confused about quantity vs quality...just women outnumber men it doesn necessarily translate into men have better "quality" to chose from. :x:

I have the utmost respect for all of the most recent opinions, but if there isn’t a Black Male shortage than this fact raise many other scenarios that are, just as disturbing and troubling.

The destruction to our community is aggressively in place, starting with first and foremost, the Black male’s viability. This is historically and tactically where this, barbarous patriarchal culture began it's predatory attacks. And if you live in the community, there is no need for someone to tell you (far as what is heard) what you see or to always statistically qualify and quantify what you are experiencing. There are even statistics that say, “Based on government spending and recent educational levels of Black people, they should be “Ok” or at least much better than yesterday. So if you have statistics, that are contrary to my opinions, than teach from that perspective and I will learn, even more.

But, let me give you something less believable, and that is, what this “Black man has seen”.


I’ll tell you what; for the sake of argument, I’ll start off with one brother’s statistical analysis toward my non-statistical reasoning.

Brother Haki Madhubuti wrote a book several years ago, I’m sure that you’re familiar with the title, ENEMIES: The Clash Of Races, _Third World Press, Published 1978. In Part 2, a section called, The Quality Of Sharing: Problems Facing Black Women, he points out:

“Black women in this country outnumber Black men approximately one point five (1.5) to one (1), This means that for every fifty (50) Black adult males there are seventy-five (75) Black adult females (1970 Census Bureau Finding – Racial Statistics).”

Now at the time I read this fact, it was probably around the mid 80’s and I noticed that the source data was over a decade old. With this in mind, I glossed over the enumerations and was more enthralled about his suggestions dealing with the reinstitution of polygamy. And even that subject, at the time, I found more thought provoking than realistic. But as I pondered over the original statistical data, I became more intrigued, about what would this type of differential, really look like and how would it play out, exponentially. I thought, though the variance seemed slight (1:1.5), it really could be problematic, even before it “exponentially tailspins”. And of course, I was dealing with it’s “face value’, with no other extenuating circumstances, that would influence outcome, one way or the other.

After reading these facts, for the first time, I really started to contemplate something, I always knew, but took for granted. For, most of us don’t always notice a phenomenon, unless we’re mentally cued in on it or it’s affecting us directly, usually in a negative fashion. Even though black women are usually in abundance in our families, churches or everyday life, most Black men, I initially talked to, have never thought deeply about the numerical differences, one way or the other. In other words, people usually never complain about having the presence of “too much of a good thing”. And please don’t take this analogy out of context. So with blinders off, I became a little more acute to, how many Black women were in the majority, in different social environments and I started a sort of personal pseudo-social study, beginning with querying sisters and afterwards some study of what I was seeing and hearing.

Here’s one area I found interesting. I had a job some years ago, were I had to visit several apartments a week, for a real-estate management company. Though I was independent, I was retained, for regular, almost daily work. I noticed that residing in the hundreds of apartments I had visited; there were only Black women and children, but no adult Black males present. And this fact was bolstered through congenial and cordial conversation during these visits. But once again, I became caught in my mundane-duties and wasn’t really studying what I was experiencing, until one sister said, something about asking her husband or “live-in companion” to talk to me… and all of a sudden, this statement, that should have been passé, took on unbelievable relevance. After visiting a vast number of husband-less or men-less homes with children, her statement almost stumped me.

Now this is far from scientific and empirically statistical (if there is such a thing) study, but I had to begin trusting, what I was seeing around me. And each “everyday” issue was worth noting, regardless of what I was being told, by research. As I said before, if we were to envelope ourselves in “just” research alone, (I emphasis the word “JUST”) we would believe, based on some very conservative statistics, that Black People are on “top of the world” and everything should be “coming up roses”. I believe we have heard these conservative statistics before.

Look, I’ve seen this discrepancy in churches, African centered functions, social gatherings and work places. In our communities there are many apartment buildings and whole residential blocks, where all of the tenants are exclusively single Black women with children.

I think we are in denial, about this, especially Black women; which I think is more about sisters’ “coping-mechanisms”, than ignorance. And we don’t always understand, this male-female ratio shifts, as we deal in different social strata’s in our community and around various social/cultural interests.

I know one very culturally astute and brilliant young brother, who happens to be single. I asked him, “what he felt about the male/female ratio, among our people”. He reminded me that because you can see so many single Black men, on the cultural scene don’t mean all of these brothers are always available for involvement or commitment and even he felt, he was out numbered, by progressive Black women, looking for companionship.

You know, one thing about our conscious community, there is a lot of hush-hush hypocrisy right below the surface of our Afro-centricity and cultural awareness. There are only a few truly conscious Brothers and Sisters among us, who are not afraid of damaging their progressive image or the “sometimes” romanticized view of the movement, who are willing to openly talk about this. Some of the young brothers and sisters are telling me that the “Players” are growing “locks” now, wearing garb and proposing to have mastered "metaphysical spiritual teachings", while finding plenty of “soul-searching” young sisters who are willfully complicit with this cultural-pimp/player mentality.

THIS IS NOT NEW!!!

If I can remember correctly, Sister Elaine Brown, eluded to this type of behind-the-revolutionary-door misogynism that was in the Black Panthers. I know I’m slightly digressing, but I think these before mentioned points are in the same “denial-trap” of, “how-are-we-really-relating-to-each other” in the movement.

As we look around us. From the average church deacon to the MBA’s and lawyers there are brothers who take advantage of this reality. I’ve heard Black business executives talk like pimps about the over abundance of highly educated sisters at their disposal.

Let me also say something about the growing statistics of Black females, on drugs, dieing from HIV, the homelessness of our women and children and the growing number of Black females being incarcerated. Are we missing something here? This is a direct societal response to the past attacks on viable Black males that initiated this shortage and which is still exponentially growing; this is nothing more, than the old “domino affect”.

Let’s not forget about CoIntelPro and how most covert objectives are long-term and complex.

And I have to note that in my many conversations and experiences, that most of the Sisters who were trying to convince me that there was no Black male shortage, were man-less at the time of that assumption and many times had some deep psycho-socio-spiritual reason why they didn’t have or didn’t want a masculine-balance to their life. Matter of fact, one Sister admitted that all of the Black women that she worked with, were without husbands or male companions (basically man-less) while all her white female coworkers were married and the only one who wasn’t marry was engaged. She had never given it much thought, until we had a conversation discussing this subject.

But hey, if “some” sisters are convinced this is myth, a Black male conspiracy or some sort of loose and fast handling of the facts, at the end of the day, most single Black men I’ve talked to, are not in the business of changing their minds, for from their vantage point, they feel no sense of worry or emergency. For many of them, it becomes the survival of the fittest.

My analyses may be “…crap” to brother HerukhuMaat, and brother it would be better if you’re absolutely right. But, I think my observations and the observations of others may be a little more thorough than that response.


Peace

Sun Ship

P.S. _And for those who would like to misconstrue any part of this topic, for the sake of “just” arguing or make every discussion “just” personal, none of the above statements are directed at any “one” sister or “all” sisters in general, who have legitimate reasons to be with or without a man at this time or for that matter anytime and for whatever reason. These are just some of my most humble opinions and observations.

Peace and much respect, Brother Sun Ship. You have provided sound reasoning that has shed much light on this topic. It inspires me to blink in order to see life through your lenses so that I can grasp a better understanding of this issue. But here's what I'm thinking. . .

I realize that more girl babies are born than boy babies and just thinking about what you wrote, it causes me to wonder whether nature designed it to be that way to insure the growth of our population and guarantee its survival. A single (potent) male can impregnate many women and this discussion begs me to question what we, living in a monogamous society, call a Black male "shortage." Maybe it's not a shortage after all, simply because women naturally outnumber men. If we lived in a society that supported polygamy, would we still be having this discussion? I wonder.

One to one, removing other factors, there would never be enough men for every woman. So other factors come into play, like those listed earlier. My question might sound awkward but I'm brave enough to ask it, are we supposed to match up monogamously or in ways that support the extension and welfare of the lineage? Is this an anthropological question as opposed to a sociological one? I'm not sure.

What do you think?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Queenie :bowdown:, your wisdom, insight and valiant posture is uplifting and stimulating. “You keep a brother thinking” and have swiftly lifted this thread towards a loftier challenge and above the fray.

I think when looking at this thread in the broader context of bold solutions and unconventional answers as appose to problems, dilemmas and predicaments, probably the word, “shortage” could be put to rest.

I agree with what you have suggested about polygamy, I have, over the years, researched this subject from the zoological references to the anthropological and even historically, while contemplating polygyny’s possible neo-social ramifications. This form of cohabitating is part of a natural balance that has been innately in place, in the animal kingdom and humankind and was predominately in matrilineal cultures. But I think if African Americans could reconstitute this very provocative, but responsive living and procreating arraignment, then we need to approach it proactively, creatively and intellectually. Right now in our community, it is carelessly happening at a more reactive and passion-driven level, without reason or forethought, EVEN AMONG THE PROGRESSIVES. More like polyamorous meaning just "many lovers".

The “nature/culture gap” created by this “monogamy only” society has allowed so-called “Players” and irresponsible brothers to haphazardly partake in a “testosterone-driven mating frenzy”, by unfairly taking advantage of a natural phenomenon (polygyny).

Unfortunately, in a strange twist of fate, “players”, cultural pimps and political crooks and cons in our community, project the boldness that proactive revolutionaries and our progressive thinkers lack, but with usually false intentions and the wrong motives. It’s interesting that the word “con” derives from the word “confidence”. They do not fear failure, scrutiny or the condemnations of a hypocritically pious society.

I’ll go as far as saying, if progressive people don’t become a powerful and functional part of the reproduction of our community, we won’t have to worry about a "covert sterilization program by racist eugenicist", but a natural evolution towards dysgenics.

With the above thoughts in mind, I’ve talked to a few, very positive primary school educators in our community; they had a lot of faith and hope, but were becoming more and more concerned about the early development of our children. They are the first ones to see our future and their pronouncements were full of uncertainty.

Let me end on this footnote, concerning this overall thread. I know a Black family, who’s incidentally reproducing, “a next generation” of mostly male offspring and in reference to this subject this is a wonderful thing. But these young men’s fathers, uncles and grandfathers had been dieing faster than they could assist, in the raising of their young descendants. This has left a lot of them in an obviously unbalanced reality that sometimes endangers their very lives, which many times is directly related to a lack of male guidance, even though their mothers are doing their best. Over the years, the remaining elder-males have extended their reach as far as possible, but because the Black male society as a whole has numerically changed (multiple responsible black men in the community who knew the family, especially the males and they knew how to respond, to a young man’s behavior.) It has made this sometimes far-reaching guidance difficult.

When I see our numbers being effectively attacked on every front, there is something almost diabolical and insidiously conspiratorial about this problem.

But Sister NNQueen I think if progressive sisters like you, can keep the pressure on the progressive minds of black men and our sisters, ideas may turn into action.


Ashe!

Sun Ship


P.S.___
dys·gen·ics (d s-j n ks)
n. (used with a sing. verb) The biological study of the factors producing degeneration in offspring, especially of a particular race or species.

dysgenics
n : the study of the operation of factors causing degeneration in the type of offspring produced

I am not sure if there are necessarily more males on the planet than there are female..because there are cultures / nation in which there are extreme measures for women to male offspring...like China and India and when one features that these nations are tow of the most populated nations in the world...one could argue that there are more males in some places than there are females.

As you noted if we lived in a society that supported polygamy than it would be a possible solution...but that type of socialization would have to begin at birth. I can certainly say from a (meaning one black woman's perspective) that the majority of black american women would not accept such as system because american women have be socialized to be competitve with one another with the except ionfor blood relationships( and close freedships) the emphaisis is on having one's own resources and not pooling and sharing. But americans are pretty accepting of serial marraiges :rolleyes: I believe that Black women would ahve more powerunder polygamy because it would really strength relationships among women.

I believe one consequence of the "shortage" will be the continual decline in the black birthrate...contrary to popular beliefs the birth rate for all black women..tennagerers and adults has gone down. This is particularly true for "professional educated black women" who have one tohe lowerst birth rate in the US. It will be interesting to see how this "pans out" in the next thrity years or so....I personally feel as those I am the first generation of bw in my family who will not have the respnsbility of being a wife and mother and sometimes when I look at how tired many bw are I wonder if this is a bad thing?

My analyses may be “…crap” to brother HerukhuMaat, and brother it would be better if you’re absolutely right. But, I think my observations and the observations of others may be a little more thorough than that response.


P.S. _And for those who would like to misconstrue any part of this topic, for the sake of “just” arguing or make every discussion “just” personal, none of the above statements are directed at any “one” sister or “all” sisters in general, who have legitimate reasons to be with or without a man at this time or for that matter anytime and for whatever reason. These are just some of my most humble opinions and observations.

Sunship,

We can change many things in this society but we cannot change the universal principles of nature. Women.. in most cultures or race outnumber thier men. That's nature. Now nature also dictates that if there is so many fatherless children, then there is something wrong with both the women and men who are bearing these fatherless children.

Well let me tell you my observations. I spent a very good part of my life in the white community and I can tell you that physical abuse and alcoholism starts very early in the culture I observed. From teenage years these boys were beating up on their girlfriends and their mothers were also beat by their fathers. Statistically white men outnumber blackmen in back child support. These child support claims are usually following their divorce. So although all these white people you claim were married... how many of them are going to end up in divorce anyway?

I personally think that we have a lot of house cleaning to do. I believe that black people have very unrealistic expectations of each other at times. Our women have bought into the myth that they're these independent beings who don't need any man for anything. Our men have bought into the myth that they're this thug, playa, baller or hip-hop star. We quickly forget that it was not so long ago that we were all under the crack of the whip, and we fought and struggled together just to see another day. We have to start making our reality one which is conducive to the success and growth of us both. We've quickly bought into the spoils of the status quo as if the status quo ever really had us in mind.

As long as we're still making black babies then we need to ensure their survival in an environment and social structure that is healthy for their development, success and growth.

Just my sincerest and humble observation.

You said...
Men can definitely get what they want outside of a commitment. Women are at fault. A woman's body is a temple and shouldn't be used to manipulate a man into a commitment, nor be given freely.


Me say...

I agree, even the farmer can't get any milk if the cow doesn't give it. However, we (females) are not cows. We need love and therefore many of us will give sex to get it. I wish most of us were weak like dat, but oh well. Thumbs up to the sistas who know they are complete with or without a man.

Just One Ques; If I MayDo You Have A Mate ?????

Just One Ques; If I MayDo You Have A Mate ?????

Yes I do. :rolling:

I think it is a myth. I think one reason is because some women want everything in one man. A dude with a nice car, nice house, no kids,
no ex-wife, a good job, good looking and loyal with a lot of money. Plus, I think that a lot of women and men don't appreciate a good thing once they get it. Everyone complains that there are no good this and that, but when they find one they take them for granted. There are a lot of good black males out there, a lot of us are just making sure that these women who are complaining are good enough for us. Not to sound bad, but there are a lot of people with really high standards that have nothing to offer in return. I am fine by myself. Don't get me wrong though, I would love to have a woman that I can cherish, trust and give all my love to, but I don't need one. Even if I did find someone special, I would really have to ponder the idea of taking vows. I think marriage triggers something in the mind that screams "ok, no need to impress anymore". Jail definately has a huge impact on the availability of black males, and that's how this country wants it. Honestly, nowadays I think that marriage is just either for convenience or for show. I don't know many people who are married out of love anymore...from what they say. I also know a lot of males, as many of you also do, who don't want to commit for various reason, the main one being the fact that divorce screws men more than women. Not every woman looks to gain from divorce, but what man wants to put himself in that situation where a woman has the choice whether to try and ruin him or not? Also men can get what they want without marriage. It shouldn't be about that, but it happens. Why have a binding contract that holds you around the neck when you can just date someone and when you guys feel the spark going out just get up and leave. It is a lot easier, sincce no one is really worried about having a lifetime partner anymore. I think we can go on and on, but there are too many reasons to just try to pinpoint one or two.

Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

If you could find 2 sistahs that would be willing to share a man, that would be a miracle. :laugh:

If you could find 2 sistahs that would be willing to share a man, that would be a miracle. :laugh:


They're plenty of sistahs doing it, Willingly or unwillingly!

They're plenty of sistahs doing it, Willingly or unwillingly!

Most unwillingly...I assure you.

Most unwillingly...I assure you.


Maybe, maybe not. The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Maybe, maybe not. The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

If you're mormon or a member of a religious cult, then you might be able to run this program sucessfully. That's because this is part of their belief system. However, this belief is not likely to be taught nor considered among the sisters. We are too apt :fight: to fight each other over a boyfriend or what we think is a boyfriend, let alone a husband.

I can't speak for the others but much as I love my husband, I would have NEVER considered sharing him wit nobody honey. :nono:

Sekhemu: The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?

Sekhemu: The point is I believe we need to consider it as an option

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?


Because we're talking about raising and supporting africans. Not to say that some latinos are not black, but the vast majority of them do not identify as such

If you're mormon or a member of a religious cult, then you might be able to run this program sucessfully. That's because this is part of their belief system. However, this belief is not likely to be taught nor considered among the sisters. We are too apt :fight: to fight each other over a boyfriend or what we think is a boyfriend, let alone a husband.

I can't speak for the others but much as I love my husband, I would have NEVER considered sharing him wit nobody honey. :nono:


Our community is in crisis. This is not for "those" sistahs, but for the one's that are more progressive and open minded. The women you speak of can stay with whomever they're with

One more thing, polygamy does work, in not just with mormons. Our people in the motherland do it. not without problems, but the benefits outway the obstacles

Just one more thing, why share when there's plenty of fine good looking latinos who sho be digging dem sistas?

Joyce you are seriously mistaken if you believe that those fine looking Latinos don't behave in similar ways as "brothas" do. This includes having multiple women, dealing drugs, etc. I live in a Latino neighborhood, so I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there is no difference....."fineness" aside.

Joyce you are seriously mistaken if you believe that those fine looking Latinos don't behave in similar ways as "brothas" do. This includes having multiple women, dealing drugs, etc. I live in a Latino neighborhood, so I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there is no difference....."fineness" aside.

You have misunderstood me. Go back to the beginning of the discussion between me and Sekhemu...

Sekhemu: Perhaps we as a people need to re-examine our criteria of what a black male shortage means. Is man sharing such a horrible Idea to even consider, with in the context of mutually agreed party(s)?

We are not discussing behaviour probs with black men but shortages of black men (which I'm not in complete agreement anyway with dat) in America. I am aware that there are good and bad men in every race. I was not singling out my brothas as the bad guys. We are simply discussing shortages and avenues that sistahs might take to offset this. Sekhemu believes that black women should be open to sharing a man to save the african community here. In America, I don't believe that will go over too well.

Our community is in crisis. This is not for "those" sistahs, but for the one's that are more progressive and open minded. The women you speak of can stay with whomever they're with

I agree with you. Our community IS in crisis. But who put it there? Why should the sistahs have to put their self in a :driveby: sacrificing position to share their husband with other women to save THE COMMUNITY. I believe the one who help put it in a crisis should be willing to sacrifice in some manner, rather than be "rewarded" with orgasms:hot: from a whole platoon of women. Come on now. Progessive thought? HA! In my point of view that is not progressing but digressing.

Because we're talking about raising and supporting africans. Not to say that some latinos are not black, but the vast majority of them do not identify as such

Sekhemu, I know this should probably be on another thread, but answer me this...are you trying to say that latino men like Sammy Sosa, do not consider themselves Africans? How do they think they got to cuba and some of the islands? I hope this is not true.

Sekhemu, I know this should probably be on another thread, but answer me this...are you trying to say that latino men like Sammy Sosa, do not consider themselves Africans? How do they think they got to cuba and some of the islands? I hope this is not true.

Are Latinos like Sammy Sosa of African Descent? Without question sister Joyce. Do they consider themselves to be Black or African? You'd be surprised sista. I invite you to visit 2 thread on the PanAfrican Forum about this subject:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12493

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23343

Are Latinos like Sammy Sosa of African Descent? Without question sister Joyce. Do they consider themselves to be Black or African? You'd be surprised sista. I invite you to visit 2 thread on the PanAfrican Forum about this subject:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12493

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23343


I read the first page of dialogue and I must say that I was very surprised that many latino blacks don't consider themselves black :uhoh: . My heart is hurt because beliefs like this will keep us from embracing each other as one...permanently. Do they not remember where they come from? Sammy's people are descendants of African slaves. Do he not know that? Do the others not know that really? How did they come to think like that?

Oh gosh, I'm sorry. This is the wrong place for that discussion. I will ask you in the PanAfrican Board if you don't mind...meet me ova deah. By the way, if you don't mind me asking...I note you have much knowledge of my ancestral homeland. Do you live in Africa or America or where?

Joyce

By the way, if you don't mind me asking...I note you have much knowledge of my ancestral homeland. Do you live in Africa or America or where?

I have much knowledge of your ancestral homeland, because it is my ancestral homeland as well Joyce. Who would not want to learn more about themselves? I have studied Africa in college, on my own, through an extensive network of African friends & colleagues. I am married to a woman from Africa (actually she was born & raised in Spain, but her parents are African). I don't live in Africa, although I plan to one day. I eat African food, I dance to African music, I wear African clothes. I am fiercely pround of my culture, and promote it where ever I can. However, this isn't the place for this conversation.......I'll meet you on the PanAfrican Forum.

I agree with you. Our community IS in crisis. But who put it there? Why should the sistahs have to put their self in a :driveby: sacrificing position to share their husband with other women to save THE COMMUNITY. I believe the one who help put it in a crisis should be willing to sacrifice in some manner, rather than be "rewarded" with orgasms:hot: from a whole platoon of women. Come on now. Progessive thought? HA! In my point of view that is not progressing but digressing.


Give me a break, what do you mean why should sistahs have to put themselves in a sacrificing postion to share their husbands with other woman go save the community. Speak for yourself. The sistahs I know do not characterize their relationships as a sacrifice like you do. They embrace it as a benefit and a honor. This has nothing to do with rewarding black men you claim help put us in this crisis, with an orgasm. How typical of people who know little about this lifestyle to reduce it in terms of the man getting all the sex he can handle.

Joyce do you know any black women or men that live in a polygamous relationship? It's not about just sharing a man, that would be looking at it one dimensionally. It's about supporting and expanding the health, wealth and happiness of the black family. Security

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially.:love:[/QUOTE]


I say lets test the waters. Why not? Love is love is love

Lady Bast

Millions of white men are interested in dating black women. 57% of single white men are open to dating interracially, compared to 51% of single black women. (Source Washington Post and Jet 10/1995).

White men who have never married, or are divorced, widowed or separated outnumber similarily disposed adult black women more than 3 to 1: 29.2 million white men, compared to 8.4 million black women. There's plenty to go around.

The odds are even better for single black women with associate's, bachelor's or advanced degrees. Single white men with such degrees outnumber similarily disposed black women more than 5 to 1: 7.2 million white men, compared to 1.3 million black women. There's even more to go around for black women with degrees. Remember, almost 60% are open to dating interracially.:love:


I say lets test the waters. Why not? Love is love is love

Lady Bast[/QUOTE]


So i take it you believe that there is a shortage of available black men Lady Bastet? and that the best option is to "date" white men?

1. There is a shortage of white men as well.
2. Are you sure you dont have another agenda here?

but black men have been dating out in massive numbers. 50% of all black men that make over 50K are married to NON BLACK WOMEN!!!
Where do you get these figures? :confused: I know a lot of black men making that kind of money and none of them, let me repeat, Non of them would be caught dead with a white woman. I think you DO have another agenda. Go on back to BVs. We wont take that here either.

Kem.... you stated that men who make 50k or more are married and coupled with NON BLACK WOMEN!!! You killed your own post! You know a lot of black men who are making that kinda of money and wouldn't be caught dead with a white woman? Yeah but are they will BLACK WOMEN???? NoN black can be anything, not neccessarily white women!

Shadow.. ps why d oes a black woman stating factual evidence have to have another agenda for stating the fact that she feels she wants to date ou tside of her race? Why can't it be just that .... wanting to be eligable for marriage.


Just a thought

Give me a break, what do you mean why should sistahs have to put themselves in a sacrificing postion to share their husbands with other woman go save the community. Speak for yourself. The sistahs I know do not characterize their relationships as a sacrifice like you do. They embrace it as a benefit and a honor. This has nothing to do with rewarding black men you claim help put us in this crisis, with an orgasm. How typical of people who know little about this lifestyle to reduce it in terms of the man getting all the sex he can handle.

Joyce do you know any black women or men that live in a polygamous relationship? It's not about just sharing a man, that would be looking at it one dimensionally. It's about supporting and expanding the health, wealth and happiness of the black family. Security


I had to come back to something you posted at the end of your last post. Your belief this is not progressive but digressive. So am I to infer that black women that are in polygamous relationships are making other black women look bad?

:cool:


It's interesting, because I think African American women are the only group of women that are more resistant to [dating outside their race] than any other group. And yet, you all are the pool who probably have the least options," Chapman says. "You find that you're more committed to men who are not all that committed to you, which is really ironic to me."

:nono: QUACKERY!


Is it really? Don't think so!

Not from where I sit!

Shadow

Now here this, THERE IS NO AVAILABLE BLACK MALE SHORTAGE. We just need to re-evaluate what constitutes available or suitable. We have to define and re-define what makes a good black man.

This topic is has been regurgitated from an earlier thread concerning polygamy. Check the archives!

Give me a break, what do you mean why should sistahs have to put themselves in a sacrificing postion to share their husbands with other woman go save the community. Speak for yourself. The sistahs I know do not characterize their relationships as a sacrifice like you do. They embrace it as a benefit and a honor. This has nothing to do with rewarding black men you claim help put us in this crisis, with an orgasm. How typical of people who know little about this lifestyle to reduce it in terms of the man getting all the sex he can handle.

Joyce do you know any black women or men that live in a polygamous relationship? It's not about just sharing a man, that would be looking at it one dimensionally. It's about supporting and expanding the health, wealth and happiness of the black family. Security

If you are really concerned about saving The Community, then rather than set a brotha up with a platoon of sisters who will give him all the orgasms he can handle, why not teach him to STOP doing things that are destroying his community.

Teach him to stop:

1. Killing his brothas in the streets
2. Be faithful to the one wife he has (if he can't be faithful with 1 he won't be faithful with 10)
3. Be the best father he knows how to be
4. When he move up in the world, stay within the boundaries of his race for the sake of The Community
5. Selling drugs to children for the white man and the green
6. Stop calling his queens hoes and itches
7. Stop giving support to porn rappers who are destroying The Community
8. Wear Rubbas for the sake of The Community
9. Try harder to stay out of prison for the sake of The Community
10. Put the "self-pity" attitude aside and take like to another level.

If he correct the basic ten up there, there will be no need for sisters to be sharing a brotha. We don't live in a polygamy society nor do we have to settle for that when there are other options...sorry. The man is the leader in The Community. Let him lead us out of the mess so that it won't have to come to polygamy.

I say lets test the waters. Why not? Love is love is love

Lady Bast


So i take it you believe that there is a shortage of available black men Lady Bastet? and that the best option is to "date" white men?[/QUOTE]


Hi
I do not know if I believe if there is a shortage of black men. I think a concern is more of a shortage of men that have more favorable and come with characterisitics that are of a more acceptable quality.

I don't know if dating white men per se is the BEST option. I think it can be an option. I know that our culture is hurting. However, trying to undo decades of dysfunctionalism in my lifetime would be impossible. I love my people. However, I am getting the impression that there is a large majority of black men who may not view me in the same light. As his people. This paints a very dark picture in my mind, when I see our men running with women of other races and they seem to be making those kinds of choices more and more. I do not think ALL black men or dogs, nor do I think negatively of our entire race of black men. I just feel that from what I SEE, from what I FEEL, from what I HEAR from my sista's who are hurting and black man-less, it seems as though we are either going to end up lonely and unloved, than reaping benefits of being loved by our men.

I think that dating outside of the race can and should be an option. Now what culture a person chooses to date is a personal choice. I don't think one race is BETTER than another. I just want more options and to one day be able to recieve the kind of love and honor I desearve.

Peace and blessings

Shadow (lady)

If you are really concerned about saving The Community, then rather than set a brotha up with a platoon of sisters who will give him all the orgasms he can handle, why not teach him to STOP doing things that are destroying his community.

Teach him to stop:

1. Killing his brothas in the streets
2. Be faithful to the one wife he has (if he can't be faithful with 1 he won't be faithful with 10)
3. Be the best father he knows how to be
4. When he move up in the world, stay within the boundaries of his race for the sake of The Community
5. Selling drugs to children for the white man and the green
6. Stop calling his queens hoes and itches
7. Stop giving support to porn rappers who are destroying The Community
8. Wear Rubbas for the sake of The Community
9. Try harder to stay out of prison for the sake of The Community
10. Put the "self-pity" attitude aside and take like to another level.

If he correct the basic ten up there, there will be no need for sisters to be sharing a brotha. We don't live in a polygamy society nor do we have to settle for that when there are other options...sorry. The man is the leader in The Community. Let him lead us out of the mess so that it won't have to come to polygamy.

This is your list of things you want black men to do. Although you make some valid points with respect what he can stop doing, I notice you conveniently left out the things the sistahs need to do and not do as well. But I am not gonna play a silly *** for tat with you.

It is your belief that man must have only one wife. and it's funny you being a christian follow many of the laws passed down by men that had more than one wife themselves. In your very own bible. So don't be a hypocrite!

I do not believe there is a man shortage , nor do I believe as you assert in this list that this description applies to most black men.

You keep harping on the sexual dynamic about having a black man having more than one wife. Is that what your concern is, who has the upper hand sexually? I will ask you again. do you know any black people in a polygamous relationship? If you don't then perhaps you need to be less subjective and emotional about a life style you know little or nothing about. much less relate to it.

I don't care if this is not a polygamous society. So what. This society is whatever you make it. And who is WE. you do not speak for black women.

There is an old African Proverb, it takes a mother to raise and teach a nation. Think about it

So i take it you believe that there is a shortage of available black men Lady Bastet? and that the best option is to "date" white men?


Hi
I do not know if I believe if there is a shortage of black men. I think a concern is more of a shortage of men that have more favorable and come with characterisitics that are of a more acceptable quality.

I don't know if dating white men per se is the BEST option. I think it can be an option. I know that our culture is hurting. However, trying to undo decades of dysfunctionalism in my lifetime would be impossible. I love my people. However, I am getting the impression that there is a large majority of black men who may not view me in the same light. As his people. This paints a very dark picture in my mind, when I see our men running with women of other races and they seem to be making those kinds of choices more and more. I do not think ALL black men or dogs, nor do I think negatively of our entire race of black men. I just feel that from what I SEE, from what I FEEL, from what I HEAR from my sista's who are hurting and black man-less, it seems as though we are either going to end up lonely and unloved, than reaping benefits of being loved by our men.

I think that dating outside of the race can and should be an option. Now what culture a person chooses to date is a personal choice. I don't think one race is BETTER than another. I just want more options and to one day be able to recieve the kind of love and honor I desearve.

Peace and blessings

Shadow (lady)[/QUOTE]
That's your opinion, but I definately don't share it.

So i take it you believe that there is a shortage of available black men Lady Bastet? and that the best option is to "date" white men?


Hi
I do not know if I believe if there is a shortage of black men. I think a concern is more of a shortage of men that have more favorable and come with characterisitics that are of a more acceptable quality.

I don't know if dating white men per se is the BEST option. I think it can be an option. I know that our culture is hurting. However, trying to undo decades of dysfunctionalism in my lifetime would be impossible. I love my people. However, I am getting the impression that there is a large majority of black men who may not view me in the same light. As his people. This paints a very dark picture in my mind, when I see our men running with women of other races and they seem to be making those kinds of choices more and more. I do not think ALL black men or dogs, nor do I think negatively of our entire race of black men. I just feel that from what I SEE, from what I FEEL, from what I HEAR from my sista's who are hurting and black man-less, it seems as though we are either going to end up lonely and unloved, than reaping benefits of being loved by our men.

I think that dating outside of the race can and should be an option. Now what culture a person chooses to date is a personal choice. I don't think one race is BETTER than another. I just want more options and to one day be able to recieve the kind of love and honor I desearve.

Peace and blessings

Shadow (lady)[/QUOTE]

Lady bastet, I noticed you use a name from Khemet. If I'm not mistaken you have inquired about ancestral veneration? Well one thing you want to be very aware of, if you decide to get "involved" with a white man as a mate. You may not want to set up an Egyptian oriented ancestral alter. The ancestors in Khemit paid a dear price for sharing their secrets with europeans. This is particuliarly why they were kept out of Egypt for over 2500 years

There are more options available to African Americans than dating white people. As long as we are keeping an "open mind", I would like to introduce everyone (Lady Bastet in particular) to an old thread on the PanAfrican Forum:

Destee briefly touched on this subject in her "Are Latinos Africans?" thread, but I would like to outright ask how people would feel about dating black people from different countries? It is no secret that African American men & women have had some difficulties in recent years in terms of what we expect from one another, and dating prospects within the African American community. Indeed there have been numerous radioshows and magazine articles in Essence, Sister-to-Sister, Ebony, Black Male, etc, on this subject. Typical in these debates will be statistics showing the number of African American men in prisons, the number of homosexuals in the African American community; single mothers raising children without the support of any male figure; the ratio of educated black women compared to that of educated black men; and arguments about the so-called shortage of black males.

In almost all of these debates, choosing to date different cultures is a proposed solution to the perceived shortage of desirable dating prospects in the African American community. By different cultures, the authors and participants of these debates are refering to different races: Meaning Whites, Hispanics, and Asians. However, it is not necessary to go outside of the race to explore different cultures and attitudes towards dating, family, and male-female relations.

Black people are literally all over the world. Occupying over 50 different countries in Africa alone, as well as countries in Europe, the Caribbean, South America, Canada, and Asia. Each country has its own unique culture, beliefs, and value system. Therefore the attitudes and social structure that many African Americans believe to be representative of black people in general, are in reality unique to African Americans, not blacks across the Diaspora. One example to illustrate this is the high number of single mother families among African Americans is unique to blacks in this country. Africans generally don't have this problem, as African men strongly believe in taking care of their kids (in some parts of Nigeria if a man leaves his wife, he takes the kids with him).

It is easier to relate with someone of our own race rather than someone of a different race (no matter where they come from). It will be beneficial to the black community to look towards our sistas & brothas in the Diaspora before we seek to date outside the race.

Peace-PanAfrica

Lady bastet, I noticed you use a name from Khemet. If I'm not mistaken you have inquired about ancestral veneration? Well one thing you want to be very aware of, if you decide to get "involved" with a white man as a mate. You may not want to set up an Egyptian oriented ancestral alter. The ancestors in Khemit paid a dear price for sharing their secrets with europeans. This is particuliarly why they were kept out of Egypt for over 2500 years


Ok, I will keep that in mind!

Shadow walker (lady bastet)

Ok, I will keep that in mind!

Shadow walker (lady bastet)


Yeah you do that, you don't wanna risk burning a hole in your soul

This is your list of things you want black men to do. Although you make some valid points with respect what he can stop doing, I notice you conveniently left out the things the sistahs need to do and not do as well. But I am not gonna play a silly *** for tat with you.

It is your belief that man must have only one wife. and it's funny you being a christian follow many of the laws passed down by men that had more than one wife themselves. In your very own bible. So don't be a hypocrite!

I do not believe there is a man shortage , nor do I believe as you assert in this list that this description applies to most black men.

You keep harping on the sexual dynamic about having a black man having more than one wife. Is that what your concern is, who has the upper hand sexually? I will ask you again. do you know any black people in a polygamous relationship? If you don't then perhaps you need to be less subjective and emotional about a life style you know little or nothing about. much less relate to it.

I don't care if this is not a polygamous society. So what. This society is whatever you make it. And who is WE. you do not speak for black women.

There is an old African Proverb, it takes a mother to raise and teach a nation. Think about it




Sekhemu: This is your list of things you want black men to do. Although you make some valid points with respect what he can stop doing, I notice you conveniently left out the things the sistahs need to do and not do as well. But I am not gonna play a silly *** for tat with you.


I'm glad you did not take it like that. You suggested what the sistahs could do, so I thought I'd suggest what the brothas could do. That simple.



Sekhemu: It is your belief that man must have only one wife. and it's funny you being a christian follow many of the laws passed down by men that had more than one wife themselves. In your very own bible. So don't be a hypocrite!


Oh no...you didn't go there. I am a Christian...one who lives by the principles of Jesus Christ...not men. Remember Christ fullfilled the law seeing that it was impossible for man to consistently obey what was put before him.

Matthew 19:5, Jesus said "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife (not his wives), and the two (not 20) will become one ".

So don't accuse me of being a hypocrite until you get your facts right.

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

If you want to know what I follow, just ask me don't assume anything okay? This is about the 3rd or 4th time, you have assumed (like when you said I worshipped some god created by Sophia...who in the heck is Sophia...oh forget it, don't tell me) something without asking to make sure.


Sekhemu: I do not believe there is a man shortage , nor do I believe as you assert in this list that this description applies to most black men.


As you probably know, I don't subscribe to the black male shortage, but there is a shortage of good available black men due to certain circumstances as

Homosexuality
Prison
Drugs
Homocide
Crossing Over

The basic ten in my previous post may not apply to most black men, but it certainly applies to a huge enough number that's having a devastating effect on the black community.



Sekhemu:You keep harping on the sexual dynamic about having a black man having more than one wife. Is that what your concern is, who has the upper hand sexually?


Sekhemu, let me be very straight forward with you right now, because obviously you ain gettin' it. Let's take off the dark sunglasses:glasses: . Now that you can see, please note that many black men ain't even taking care of the children that they have from ONE woman...let alone try to take care of children from ten women. Let's be real here...I can't even believe I have gone this long with you on this subject. :argue: These men have been practicing "polygamy" already...take note that if it ain working without papers how can you even think that it will be any better with papers. :hammer: Hey, I know what!:idea: Since there is not a shortage of black men, why don't you go preach to the brothas that they should marry a sistah who has 3 black husbands already so that he can help perserve The Community, by being the husband (faithful) of a black woman instead of a non-white woman. That way we sistahs get to keep all the gorgeous brothas to ourselves. Then that would make everything equal wouldn't it. :lol:



Sekhemu:I will ask you again. do you know any black people in a polygamous relationship? If you don't then perhaps you need to be less subjective and emotional about a life style you know little or nothing about. much less relate to it.

Know I don't know any sistahs that tolerate that, but that doesn't mean that I can form an opinion on it honey as you've just read above.



Sekhemu:I don't care if this is not a polygamous society. So what. This society is whatever you make it. And who is WE. you do not speak for black women.

I never said I spoke for black women. I said we, the black sisters here in America are not going to go for that. And I still say that. In your country, the sisters probably do because that has been a longtime practice for their cultural way of doing things. But I'm telling you right now, before sistahs here in America subcribe to something like that, there will definitely be other options chosen...trust me. Now I could be wrong. I tell you what, I will ask the sistahs over in the "sister" forum what they think about your "wonderful" idea.



Sekhemu:There is an old African Proverb, it takes a mother to raise and teach a nation. Think about it

I thought about it and when I look at our nation of people, I have to ask if many of us have been listening to Mother.

Joyce

Are You Married Sekhemu...if so, do you have more than one wife???

I don't mean to jump in between what appears to be a private argument between Joyce & Sekhemu (3 way if Lady Bastet is also considered). However I'd again like to state that before the drastic solutions of polygamy or dating outside the race are considered for solutions of the so called "shortage of desirable black male." We should instead consider dating Black people from different countries (the first thread is only 3 post above). I recommend Black Men consider this option as well, because based on the defination of "shortage" used for brothas: HIV infection, drug use, high rates of imprisionment, multiple children, lack of education/refinement....there is an increasing shortage of available sistas also. The different attitudes that black people have from other cultures towards family, education, and values in general can be quite refreshing. It is an experience worth trying, for me it lead to a happy marriage.

PanAfrica:We should instead consider dating Black people from different countries

I agree. That's why I said that the sistahs should be checking out some of those fine latinos (especially the brothas from Cuba). While they face the same probs as any other race of people, this will widen the horizion as far as having a better selection of available men. I enjoy talking to them as well as my friends here from Kenya.

Now these brothas (speaking of the Keyans now) are not only very handsome but very intelligent with a beautiful spirit of excellence in everything they put their hand to do. One brotha I got to know while living in Texas was there to learn how to fly. He was the descendant of 13 generations of kings among his people in Kenya, Africa. He was learning to fly so that he could go back to Kenya to help his family accomplish higher goals in business. He did not come here poor. His parents are very wealthy and had already sent him to college in New York. Now they have purchased him a private airplane. So much for blacks running around in little pieces of rags as so many (watching 2 much National Geographics) of us in America think.

My other Kenyan (of which I have many here in Florida)friend is also very handsome and intelligent. The thing that he has noticed here in America is how different many american black men are in the way they treat their women. He is appalled at our rap music and BET videos. He doesn't like it that so many young men cuss around seniors with no respect whatsoever. The kenyan men that I've met carry themselves in such a respectful manner and think so refreshingly different on things than most of the brothers I've seen here in America.

To me they are certainly notable in many ways. For the sisters who are looking, if there happen to be any Kenyans where you are, please check em out.

As long as the Latinos are Afro-Latinos then I agree 100% Joyce. However, not all Latinos have African ancestry, so it is important that this distinction is made.

to joyce- why are we blaming the men alone for their shortcomings? you do realize that most of these men were raised by black women. what would you suggest that these women do to raise better black men?

to all - for the record: i don't believe there is a shortage of "good" black men. out here in los angeles, i could have my pick of good black men if i were available. maybe there's a shortage depending on where you or what type of people you choose to hang around with or what type of woman you (generic you, not you specifically) are.....

As long as the Latinos are Afro-Latinos then I agree 100% Joyce. However, not all Latinos have African ancestry, so it is important that this distinction is made.

Whereas I would make that distinction if I were single, not every sistah would. To an increasing number of sistahs, like their brothas who started this movement, no distinction will be made.

to joyce- why are we blaming the men alone for their shortcomings? you do realize that most of these men were raised by black women. what would you suggest that these women do to raise better black men?

to all - for the record: i don't believe there is a shortage of "good" black men. out here in los angeles, i could have my pick of good black men if i were available. maybe there's a shortage depending on where you or what type of people you choose to hang around with or what type of woman you (generic you, not you specifically) are.....


Sis, this is not a discussion about our brothas shortcomings for indeed you will find shortcomings in every race and gender...this is about a shortage of good available black men. If you go back to the beginning of :argue: between Sekhemu and I, http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12213&page=9&pp=10
you will know that he advocates that the sisters be willing to share one man for the sake of preserving the black community. I said why reward the man with a platoon of women. So since he suggested this sacrifice on our part, I suggest a list of the Basic Ten for the brothas to be working on. That way it won't have to come to polygamy. If there are plenty of these items where you are at then we can certainly throw out Sekhumu's polygamy idea and move to California. :rolling:

On a more serious note, many sistahs are not discovering this pot of gold (brothas) you have there in California. Obviously where one lives (and plays) does have a part in it.

Yeah you do that, you don't wanna risk burning a hole in your soul

I am not understanding your comment on this Sekhemu... if you wish to say something to me, then say it! I am open minded
I am getting the feeling that you are being offended by my point of view?

Please tell me how you feel I could possibly "LOOSE MY SOUL" AS YOU PUT IT?? By loving a man outside of my race?

Lady

I am not understanding your comment on this Sekhemu... if you wish to say something to me, then say it! I am open minded
I am getting the feeling that you are being offended by my point of view?

Please tell me how you feel I could possibly "LOOSE MY SOUL" AS YOU PUT IT?? By loving a man outside of my race?

Lady
I said it as plain as I can! if you "engage" with white person and have an altar erected you are asking for trouble. Specifically if the altar(s) are Kemetic oriented.

There is a very good reason Kemet translates into meaning black, refering to melanin. As I stated before our ancestors there knew full well who the european was and they did there best to make sure they did not get a hold of our esoterical secrets.

In short you will have protect yourself!

to joyce- why are we blaming the men alone for their shortcomings? you do realize that most of these men were raised by black women. what would you suggest that these women do to raise better black men?

to all - for the record: i don't believe there is a shortage of "good" black men. out here in los angeles, i could have my pick of good black men if i were available. maybe there's a shortage depending on where you or what type of people you choose to hang around with or what type of woman you (generic you, not you specifically) are.....


Amen Ra Sistah, my point exactly!

[QUOTE=panafrica]I don't mean to jump in between what appears to be a private argument between Joyce & Sekhemu (3 way if Lady Bastet is also considered).

HI, no argueing from me. Just giving my opinion.

I agree. Cuban, puerto rican, dominican, I could go on and on... are all options.

Lady

I said it as plain as I can! if you "engage" with white person and have an altar erected you are asking for trouble. Specifically if the altar(s) are Kemetic oriented.

There is a very good reason Kemet translates into meaning black, refering to melanin. As I stated before our ancestors there knew full well who the european was and they did there best to make sure they did not get a hold of our esoterical secrets.

In short you will have protect yourself!

Thank you for the clarification Sekhemu! I appreciate it. I do not have an egyptian alter. So, I do not have to worry about that I guess. I do have an alter but not of that nature.

Thank you for the advice, and just my 2nd opinion. Just like not every black person is like the sterotypical BS society pushes out here in the world, not all white people are not like the sterotypical messages either. So, IF I did choose to be with a white man, I wouldn't have to protect my soul from anything egyptian alter or not.

Thanks again

Lady

[QUOTE=panafrica]I don't mean to jump in between what appears to be a private argument between Joyce & Sekhemu (3 way if Lady Bastet is also considered).

HI, no argueing from me. Just giving my opinion.

I agree. Cuban, puerto rican, dominican, I could go on and on... are all options.

Lady

Ms. Lady...do you believe you you will acquire "a hole in your soul" if you marry you one of them good looking selections you stated above?

Thank you for the clarification Sekhemu! I appreciate it. I do not have an egyptian alter. So, I do not have to worry about that I guess. I do have an alter but not of that nature.

Thank you for the advice, and just my 2nd opinion. Just like not every black person is like the sterotypical BS society pushes out here in the world, not all white people are not like the sterotypical messages either. So, IF I did choose to be with a white man, I wouldn't have to protect my soul from anything egyptian alter or not.

Thanks again

Lady

Never mind...while I was typing the question :geek: , gurl you were already answering it. Thanks for participating.

Sekhemu: This is your list of things you want black men to do. Although you make some valid points with respect what he can stop doing, I notice you conveniently left out the things the sistahs need to do and not do as well. But I am not gonna play a silly *** for tat with you.


I'm glad you did not take it like that. You suggested what the sistahs could do, so I thought I'd suggest what the brothas could do. That simple.



Sekhemu: It is your belief that man must have only one wife. and it's funny you being a christian follow many of the laws passed down by men that had more than one wife themselves. In your very own bible. So don't be a hypocrite!


Oh no...you didn't go there. I am a Christian...one who lives by the principles of Jesus Christ...not men. Remember Christ fullfilled the law seeing that it was impossible for man to consistently obey what was put before him.

Matthew 19:5, Jesus said "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife (not his wives), and the two (not 20) will become one ".

So don't accuse me of being a hypocrite until you get your facts right.

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

If you want to know what I follow, just ask me don't assume anything okay? This is about the 3rd or 4th time, you have assumed (like when you said I worshipped some god created by Sophia...who in the heck is Sophia...oh forget it, don't tell me) something without asking to make sure.


Sekhemu: I do not believe there is a man shortage , nor do I believe as you assert in this list that this description applies to most black men.


As you probably know, I don't subscribe to the black male shortage, but there is a shortage of good available black men due to certain circumstances as

Homosexuality
Prison
Drugs
Homocide
Crossing Over

The basic ten in my previous post may not apply to most black men, but it certainly applies to a huge enough number that's having a devastating effect on the black community.



Sekhemu:You keep harping on the sexual dynamic about having a black man having more than one wife. Is that what your concern is, who has the upper hand sexually?


Sekhemu, let me be very straight forward with you right now, because obviously you ain gettin' it. Let's take off the dark sunglasses:glasses: . Now that you can see, please note that many black men ain't even taking care of the children that they have from ONE woman...let alone try to take care of children from ten women. Let's be real here...I can't even believe I have gone this long with you on this subject. :argue: These men have been practicing "polygamy" already...take note that if it ain working without papers how can you even think that it will be any better with papers. :hammer: Hey, I know what!:idea: Since there is not a shortage of black men, why don't you go preach to the brothas that they should marry a sistah who has 3 black husbands already so that he can help perserve The Community, by being the husband (faithful) of a black woman instead of a non-white woman. That way we sistahs get to keep all the gorgeous brothas to ourselves. Then that would make everything equal wouldn't it. :lol:



Sekhemu:I will ask you again. do you know any black people in a polygamous relationship? If you don't then perhaps you need to be less subjective and emotional about a life style you know little or nothing about. much less relate to it.

Know I don't know any sistahs that tolerate that, but that doesn't mean that I can form an opinion on it honey as you've just read above.



Sekhemu:I don't care if this is not a polygamous society. So what. This society is whatever you make it. And who is WE. you do not speak for black women.

I never said I spoke for black women. I said we, the black sisters here in America are not going to go for that. And I still say that. In your country, the sisters probably do because that has been a longtime practice for their cultural way of doing things. But I'm telling you right now, before sistahs here in America subcribe to something like that, there will definitely be other options chosen...trust me. Now I could be wrong. I tell you what, I will ask the sistahs over in the "sister" forum what they think about your "wonderful" idea.



Sekhemu:There is an old African Proverb, it takes a mother to raise and teach a nation. Think about it

I thought about it and when I look at our nation of people, I have to ask if many of us have been listening to Mother.

Joyce



I do not recognize the man you call christ the way you do. What I do know is that several prophets in your bible did have more than one wife Fact! So if it was good enough for them why is it not good enough for black people today. This is why I say hypocritical .

You say I have assumed you worship a god created by sophia. Try reading a book on gnosticism. Your fellow christians from the Roman empire,who denounced them as heretics, persecuted them
to the point that they had to bury their scolls in the desert. Finally in 1946 they were unearthed in Nag Hammadi Egypt.

But I doubt you will read anything about them, just like you probably won't by the book I recommended to you on melanin. Yet you refute much of what Ive told you about the subject.

Please stop putting "words in my mouth" by saying I believe black women should sacrifice to save our community. I never said that or intimated that. If you can't tell the truth then don't use my name at all, ok? Because this is your take on the issue. At the outset I said I believe we need to start considering it as an option. As panafrica pointed out this would be one among a few.

I asked you if you knew any sisters that are in a polygamous relationship. Once again you sly interject the word, Tolerate. This is a little disengenuous. And it changes the texture of the question. I ask a very simple straight forward question, nothing about tolerating anything was mentioned, Once again your own word used here, not mine.

Yes you can form an opinion about polygamy. But personally speaking I am very careful about forming opinions when I don't have much information about something. Particuliarly first hand.

Once again, you do not speak for black women in this country. While I would concede most black women would not embrace this practice. This has more to do with conditioning than anything else.

Many black men ain't taking care of the children they have from one woman... let alone take care of children from 10 women." let's be real.

Yes let's be real. I thought it was obvious I was refering to black men that have their act together. Not the baby daddy brothas out there. Which leads me to another point. SistahIsis made some very good points. It is painfully obvious that many sistahs are making horrible choices in men. There is no insistance on marriage before sex....let alone marriage before kids. So what does that say about them? Not every man makes a good father. just like not every woman makes good choices in finding a good man.

To be quite honest, if you wanna take the glasses off, and to answer your, yes I am married. Believe me when I say, I have turned down dozens of women for sex. And no. Ive never taken them up on their offer lol, but Almost half of them are married. You've pointed the finger at the black man for his shortfalls. well point another at your sistah for trying to take another woman's man. Happens all the time. There's enough blame to go around

And lastly It is obvious we will have to agree to disagree. you have a western/christian orientation when it comes to relationships I do not. And I will no longer indulge in any further replies to this post. I'm sure you'll enjoy having the last word

Peace

I agree totally that this should come to an end Sekhumu because you are so entwined in your Eyptian beliefs and I am entwined in mine. However, I must clear up a few things you said...

Sekhumu said:Please stop putting "words in my mouth" by saying I believe black women should sacrifice to save our community. I never said that or intimated that. If you can't tell the truth then don't use my name at all, ok?

Did you not suggest polygamy??? Well what in the world do you think that is over here in America? Sacrifice baby.
I'm sorry but
I wasn't born in Egypt (or wherever you are from) and I ain't about to starting acting like an Egyptian woman. I am African American. I believe in Africans should unify but not at the sacrifice of their culture. You keep yours and I will definitely keep mine. :thanks:
So don't expect me to be happy trying to push two sistahs out my husband's bed so I can get my needs met when I need them. If you think that "standing in line" to get next to your husband is not a sacrifice, tell me what is it then??? Why should I have to make appointments when I need to talk with him about something important and urgent? :cuss:

Joyce

Sekhumu:Once again, you do not speak for black women in this country. While I would concede most black women would not embrace this practice. This has more to do with conditioning than anything else.



This has more to do with the fact that I haven't been conditioned.:lol:

Sekhumu said:You've pointed the finger at the black man for his shortfalls. well point another at your sistah for trying to take another woman's man. Happens all the time. There's enough blame to go around

His shortfalls? What shortfalls do black men have that no other race of men have? You suggested polygamy...I suggested the Basic 10...simple as that...please get off the offensive. Since my husband and many black men do not "appear" on this list, the shoe does not fit them. If the shoe fits a brotha...he should take it off and put on some new shoes and be faithful to one wife.

Moreover, if a sister is a no good woman, she shouldn't be in a polygamous situation with me because she might cut my throat to move up the totem pole. Why would I want to shall my husband with 5 hoes with 2 of them carrying the AIDS virus??? Do you yet see why your "wonderful" idea won't work here in this country like it does in yours??? There's just too many potatoes to peel first.

Sekhumu:You say I have assumed you worship a god created by sophia. Try reading a book on gnosticism. Your fellow christians from the Roman empire,who denounced them as heretics, persecuted them
to the point that they had to bury their scolls in the desert. Finally in 1946 they were unearthed in Nag Hammadi Egypt.


Joyce: Sekhumu, I have already went further with you than I should have on this foolishness about Sophia having created God. Moreover you called Him an "imposter god".

Click Here To See Why I Am Clearly Tired Of Your Comments About My God (http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8587&page=1&pp=10)

Since we don't subscribe to the same faith why do you continue bringing up the subject of God in threads which are not on the subject of religion. I feel I have withstood enough of this from you. Do you realize what you are saying when you say that? You are saying she (Little Sophia) gave MYGod life. Do you understand what you're saying? That is putting her in a position that is superior to that of God. Nothing personal but do you be smoking something :smokin: while you're at the computer...be honest.

I won't be discussing such foolishness about my God and my Saviour with you any longer. You have disrespected my faith and kept yours hidden. I have nothing to hide or keep secret as you do and discussing my faith does not weaken the power of it in anyway. Yet, I will not stand to have my faith disrespected by your foolish remarks. I don't have to take that off of anyone. So let's not discuss my God between you and I anymore...I would appreciate it if you would respect my wishes on this...really

You can continue on this level of dialogue by yourself. :yawn:

Proverbs 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man,
when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

Proverbs 9:6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Thank you for the clarification Sekhemu! I appreciate it. I do not have an egyptian alter. So, I do not have to worry about that I guess. I do have an alter but not of that nature.

Thank you for the advice, and just my 2nd opinion. Just like not every black person is like the sterotypical BS society pushes out here in the world, not all white people are not like the sterotypical messages either. So, IF I did choose to be with a white man, I wouldn't have to protect my soul from anything egyptian alter or not.

Thanks again

Lady


Not neccesarily!

There is ONE stat that will NEVER ever be quoted by anyone negative toward Black men and this was even in the Wall Street Journal(for those who will not believe it, unless the white man says so). Black men are outpacing both Black women and white men in becoming entrepreneurs(starting their own businesses). This apply to both the educated and not so educated Black men in taking that plunge on a leap of faith and deciding their own destinies. And also putting increased costs on corporations(some Black men worked in them before deciding to strike out on their own) in training and other costs in replacing them.

Good information yaphet al-wynn, you should post it on the brother forum.

There is ONE stat that will NEVER ever be quoted by anyone negative toward Black men and this was even in the Wall Street Journal(for those who will not believe it, unless the white man says so). Black men are outpacing both Black women and white men in becoming entrepreneurs(starting their own businesses). This apply to both the educated and not so educated Black men in taking that plunge on a leap of faith and deciding their own destinies. And also putting increased costs on corporations(some Black men worked in them before deciding to strike out on their own) in training and other costs in replacing them.

I am so glad that someone brought this point up. The statistics would have you to believe that black women have passed the black man. What they are trying to do is belittle him before black women and the world. They want to make him look like a complete failure. Though we (like any other race) may have our woes, there is a large number of black men making a huge different in their world and going on bout "their" business. I see this in my community and I bet you see it in yours. I know of a brotha here in my small town who has a gorgeous home, drives a C5 corvette and is so very down to earth. What does he do??? He has his own commercial contracting business, building some of the finest shopping plazas in America. I am so proud of him and there are many more brothas like him, here. Restaurants, computer networking (this guy is wealthy), and on and on. Pensacola is very strong in this area of black business ownership. Strong brothas make strong communities...and I'm loving it by supporting it$$$. The media's focus may not be on them, but we can put it there ourselves.

I am so glad that someone brought this point up. The statistics would have you to believe that black women have passed the black man. What they are trying to do is belittle him before black women and the world. They want to make him look like a complete failure. there is a large number of black men making a huge different in their world and going on bout "their" business. The media's focus may not be on them, but we can put it there ourselves.

Absolutely Joyce, I no longer concern myself with the images that white America displays about us. It concerns me more that our own supposed media (Ebony, Essence, Bet, Radio-One, Def Jam) does the same. It is up to us to counter the negative stereotypes placed in general media about us!

P.S. Tell Roy Jones Jr. I said "what's up" :cool:

This was what I was talking about. But the article that I used was from my local paper and this one is similar in tone to the one from my local paper(except the one in my local paper was slightly more detailed).I posted the link in the Black male warrior section under demonization of Black men and the link worked there.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/smallbusiness/articles/0,15114,551661,00.html

I see a lot of negative publicity regarding black people. It's to be expected when one race wishes to promote themselves.

We can counteract by doing the opposite of the negativity the media portrays.

I don't let their portrayals get me down and neither should the rest of you. I'm saying this because they are conditioned to think the worst of us. We need to condition ourselves into thinking that we are indeed God's creations and whatever God made is good. We don't have to have the plaudits and accolades of the media. We KNOW we are strong people because we have harder endeavors to make it to the top...but most importantly, we make it.

I'm not sure where all the postive Black man have gone, but I sure do pray the they return soon.

Be specific. What would you describe as a "positive Black Man?"

I don't think there is a shortage of Black men. It just depends on what you are looking for. Now, if all Black women are looking for some six foot 2 tall, Tyson Beckford look alike PhD, then yeah, alot of us will be disappointed. It amazes sometimes that we as women sometimes overlook decent, positive brothers because: "He's not tall enough." "He's not cute enough." "He doesn't make enough money to support me." "He doesn't have a degree." "He has kids." "He lives with his mother." Blah blah blah blah. The first rule is never judge a book by it's cover.

That's true Toylin. You'll hear some women say stuff like "I want a man that makes good money, good looking, nice to me, not too soft, not cheap, nice car, own house, no kids, very social, will take care of me and is good in bed". Then you ask her, well, what do you do for a living...and she says..."Oh, I'm a student." Like any man like that would want to hook up with a student. No disrespect to students of course. Come on!! Give me a break. There are good men out there but if you can nab one maybe it's because they're "good men" not "stupid-blind men". Anyways, since when do all those things make you a good man? Some women wouldn't know a good man if he was hanging outside their window with a sign on that says "good man". :help:

I don't think there is a shortage of Black men. It just depends on what you are looking for. Now, if all Black women are looking for some six foot 2 tall, Tyson Beckford look alike PhD, then yeah, alot of us will be disappointed. It amazes sometimes that we as women sometimes overlook decent, positive brothers because: "He's not tall enough." "He's not cute enough." "He doesn't make enough money to support me." "He doesn't have a degree." "He has kids." "He lives with his mother." Blah blah blah blah. The first rule is never judge a book by it's cover.

Very well stated sister Toylin...and very true!

As a black man with different views than the norm I must disagree and agree. I disagree b/c I think there is a shortage of black men, while at the same time there is not shortage of black men; the problem is many black men are not the kind that would make a suitable husband.

The problem is bountiful....
Bad parenting
No morals
No self respect
No responsibility
the list could take all night but I am sure you ladies and gentlemen get my point.

However, at the same time this interracial crap...well that should not be an option. To me that is a slap in the face whether the offending party is male or female.

There are options, one was suggested I believe (this is a long thread) multiple partners (wives that is). It is unfortunate that many sisters think of it as something the man will benefit from. You fail to realize where the one man and one woman marriage idea even came from. Yet we wonder why some many people cheat (not excusing it just stating a fact)..well I have said enough I expect to get flamed so I'll wait for the burns...

I agree stepup that there are alot of black men out there that may not be ideal for marriage for different reasons. There are also tons of black women that are not ideal for marriage too. Alot of these women complaining are just that...not ideal for marriage. I also know that there are alot of brothas going virtually unseen to the black female eye because they don't look or act "black" enough. Alot of times these brothas turn to other races because it's either that or stay home waiting for a black woman to appreciate them. And I don't blame them. I think women have this idea that they know and dictate what a "good man" is. The reality is they don't. Like Toylin said, so many women judge a book by the cover and never take time to look inside and see what it's really about. Then they complain when they keep getting dogged by these guys that they thought were good men. We brothas do have to do a better job, but there are good men out there.

And I asked this question once, and I'm going to ask it again: How many of y'all good men live in Michigan? Or close enough to drive to Michigan? LOL.... just kidding, y'all. Now, I'm not trying to lay ALL the blame on my sisters; some of the brothers need to step up and be men, instead of overgrown teenagers. (No offense to those who ARE still teenagers, mind you.) I'm tired of meeting 30 year old men who act like 17 year old boys. I also think that one of the biggest obstacles in male/female relationships amongst Black people is money...... We Black women, for the most part, have heard a double message all our lives... On one hand, we're supposed to wait for that "good" man who will take care of us and our childern and never leave our sides. But then we hear who we can "do bad" all by ourselves, and that we should be strong, independent, Black warriors and not depend on "some man" for anything.

I understand your pain. I was talking to a sister about this very same subject this past week. It is very difficult in these times for us (male/female) to get and maintain a strong bond. We are so into clothes, movies, television, and sex to be bothered with what life is really about.

As for going to the other side as a way out I am very much not for that. We tend to use that card as a last alternative when there are other options for us. Polygamy (as I stated in another thread) would help this problem. Yet, the mindset of us today does not allow for such an option.

To my Queens looking for their Kings stay strong and never give up!

It is very difficult in these times for us (male/female) to get and maintain a strong bond. We are so into clothes, movies, television, and sex to be bothered with what life is really about.

This is so true. Very rarely, do two individuals meet on this level of life, thus we have so many games that are being played. I guess it would be nice to have 3 or 4 husbands. That would relieve a lot of a sistah's stress...big time as long as her husbands are mature, loving and understanding of her needs as a woman.

Now if I could just get my husband to...oh well...he would never accept that. I don't know why. After all, it would be a beautiful setup. I would have 3 breadwinners instead of one. WoW! Three friends instead of just one.
Three fathers instead of just one. If one can't play baseball with his son, surely I could get one of my other husbands to fill in for him sometimes.

But then as you said..in these times it is very difficult to get and maintain a strong bond. I guess if it's hard to do that with one person, I will never convince my husband that it can be done with 3...shucks! :wink:

Joyce, I do hope you were just joking around with the 3-husband comment.

I do not think that would assist in putting the black family together as that would take two other brothers (I assume they are good brothers if they are with you :D) away from the MANY sisters that have no good man.

:shades: Yes, of course I was just joking. I don't subscribe to the philosophy of polygamy as that would put too many good women with one man or too many good men (as you said) with one woman. You were right when you said, this would never assist in putting the black family together.

Well, actually I do believe that polygamy is a very good option for us. It would put the village scenario that we have been so far removed from back in our hearts and hands. This village will cultivate the most powerful children as they did back in the day. Sadly, we continue to think "THEIR" way and remove ourselves from our "true" history.

I think I may have confused you with my previous statement. I meant to say since there is such a shortage of good black men, it would be a dis-service for more than one to be tied up with one woman.

Well, actually I do believe that polygamy is a very good option for us. It would put the village scenario that we have been so far removed from back in our hearts and hands. This village will cultivate the most powerful children as they did back in the day. Sadly, we continue to think "THEIR" way and remove ourselves from our "true" history.

I think I may have confused you with my previous statement. I meant to say since there is such a shortage of good black men, it would be a dis-service for more than one to be tied up with one woman.

You are not confusing me...you are just confusing. In other words, you say one thing (about polygamy) but then you turn about and make a statement that literally refutes the logic of what you believe concerning polygamy.

I meant to say since there is such a shortage of good black men, it would be a dis-service for more than one to be tied up with one woman.

There is also a shortage of good black women and it would certainly be a dis-service for five of them good ones to be tied up with one black man.

Joyce hold up! You seem to be getting a little annoyed with me. The statement I made was not to be a smart *** or anything I just thought that maybe my statement confused you that is all.

Let me try again…..

I am saying that there IS a shortage of black men for a variety of reasons. The shortage causes some men to disrespect women and children. I am saying that one option we have is polygamy.
I repeat from my previous post:

I meant to say since there is such a shortage of good black men, it would be a dis-service for more than one to be tied up with one woman.

How does this refute the logic?

If it were the other way around and there was a woman shortage then yes I would be dead wrong however, that is not the case in my opinion.

Joyce hold up! You seem to be getting a little annoyed with me. The statement I made was not to be a smart *** or anything I just thought that maybe my statement confused you that is all.

Let me try again…..

I am saying that there IS a shortage of black men for a variety of reasons. The shortage causes some men to disrespect women and children. I am saying that one option we have is polygamy.
I repeat from my previous post:

I meant to say since there is such a shortage of good black men, it would be a dis-service for more than one to be tied up with one woman.

How does this refute the logic?

If it were the other way around and there was a woman shortage then yes I would be dead wrong however, that is not the case in my opinion.

How does it refute logic? Hmmm...let me see. You said...the shortage of black men causes some of them to disrespect women and children.

Oh I get it now. Allow men to have 6 or more wives and then their women will get more respect. Gosh, I don't know why I didn't see the logic in this at the beginning.:eeek: Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sometimes it's just hard for me to catch on. :huh:

How does it refute logic? Hmmm...let me see. You said...the shortage of black men causes some of them to disrespect women and children.

Oh I get it now. Allow men to have 6 or more wives and then their women will get more respect. Gosh, I don't know why I didn't see the logic in this at the beginning. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sometimes it's just hard for me to catch on.

Your sarcasm is a joy to read…

Maybe next time you can actually think and read before typing, that way your sarcasm can be better placed and better understood.

I did not say anything about 6 wives. If you can type English please try to read it as well.

I will try this ONE more time:

The men who should consider such a relationship must be those that are real MEN!! Not the little boys running around creating havoc in the “great black family”. I think you’d do better reading one of the many polygamy threads to get a better insight.

How does it refute logic? Hmmm...let me see. You said...the shortage of black men causes some of them to disrespect women and children.

Oh I get it now. Allow men to have 6 or more wives and then their women will get more respect. Gosh, I don't know why I didn't see the logic in this at the beginning. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sometimes it's just hard for me to catch on.

Your sarcasm is a joy to read…

Maybe next time you can actually think and read before typing, that way your sarcasm can be better placed and better understood.

I did not say anything about 6 wives. If you can type English please try to read it as well.

I will try this ONE more time:

The men who should consider such a relationship must be those that are real MEN!! Not the little boys running around creating havoc in the “great black family”. I think you’d do better reading one of the many polygamy threads to get a better insight.

You Said: I did not say anything about 6 wives.

I did not say you said anything about 6 wives...I'm sure you can read english. However, you did imply polygamy and that in and of itself can mean more than 6 wives...wouldn't you say???

You also said: The men who should consider such a relationship must be those that are real MEN!! Not the little boys running around creating havoc in the “great black family”.

1. What is your definition of a real man?

2. What will stop the "little boys" (as you call them) from considering polygamy if it was to become legal?

Then you said: I think you’d do better reading one of the many polygamy threads to get a better insight.

Since I may have a problem reading English as you have implied, would you do me a favor and make plain sense of this theory of yours at THIS thread?

Gosh! You went here also: Maybe next time you can actually think and read before typing, that way your sarcasm can be better placed and better understood....then you added... If you can type English please try to read it as well.

To tell the truth, the issue is not so much whether I can think and read before typing. The fact of this matter is that YOU lack the ability to make sense of the theory of polygamy so that I might reasonably consider that it is not as stupid as it appears to be. The burden is not on me, but on you, to make sense of something that appears to me to be totally insensible. Now if you can do this without attempting to judge my intelligence, then I will count you a very wise man.

I did not say you said anything about 6 wives...I'm sure you can read english. However, you did imply polygamy and that in and of itself can mean more than 6 wives...wouldn't you say???

If I said nothing about 6 wives why use that as an example? You are choosing the scenario from your experience, perhaps? You are correct polygamy can be as many as n-number.

1. What is your definition of a real man?

2. What will stop the "little boys" (as you call them) from considering polygamy if it was to become legal?

Great questions! My definition of a true and real man is something that must be spoken not written. However, I can surely give you a sample of my thoughts on the subject. A real man must be someone that can take care of himself. This must be done without the needed assistance of parents, in other words someone who is truly self-sufficient. A man's word is his truth. A man takes care of ALL his responsibilities regardless of hard they may be. A man teaches the community. A man praises his queen. A man raises his children. These are some qualities a man should have. Your second question leaves me a little perplexed, since I find it hard to swalllow that a woman would allow herself to get into such an arrangement with a "little boy". However, since I see so many women with more children than they have fingers (exaggeration) I guess this may not be as far fetched as I think. Ultimately, what stops "little boys" from practicing polygamy is women.

Since I may have a problem reading English as you have implied, would you do me a favor and make plain sense of this theory of yours at THIS thread?

Gosh! You went here also: Maybe next time you can actually think and read before typing, that way your sarcasm can be better placed and better understood....then you added... If you can type English please try to read it as well.

To tell the truth, the issue is not so much whether I can think and read before typing. The fact of this matter is that YOU lack the ability to make sense of the theory of polygamy so that I might reasonably consider that it is not as stupid as it appears to be. The burden is not on me, but on you, to make sense of something that appears to me to be totally insensible. Now if you can do this without attempting to judge my intelligence, then I will count you a very wise man.

Well, I actually think it is a little of both. Reading and comprehending go hand and hand. Doing one without the other results in an improper message being conveyed and received. I did not judge your intelligence, I responded to your continued sarcasm; if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
Burden of proof, you have been watching too much L.A. Law. :D Ask me a question (in a non sarcastic way, please) and I will try to let you know why I believe polygamy is a valid option to the black community.

How about that? :spin:

StepUp Said: A real man must be someone that can take care of himself. This must be done without the needed assistance of parents, in other words someone who is truly self-sufficient. A man's word is his truth. A man takes care of ALL his responsibilities regardless of hard they may be. A man teaches the community. A man praises his queen. A man raises his children. These are some qualities a man should have. Your second question leaves me a little perplexed, since I find it hard to swalllow that a woman would allow herself to get into such an arrangement with a "little boy". However, since I see so many women with more children than they have fingers (exaggeration) I guess this may not be as far fetched as I think. Ultimately, what stops "little boys" from practicing polygamy is women.

There are plenty of men who are self-sufficient, yet they are some of the biggest whores on the planet. Being self-sufficient does not make a boy a man.

A man takes care of ALL his responsibilities regardless of hard they may be. A man teaches the community. A man praises his queen. A man raises his children. These are some qualities a man should have.

Awwww...now we are talking. I think if a man would be all of these things that you have listed, there is would no need for a sista to share her bed with other women in the first place. For that man could teach his boys not to be whores. That man could teach his boys "faithfulness" to one woman...something you failed to mention. That man could teach his boys not to get kids from 3 or more women. Then there would be no need to have three women in a measerly attempt to save "the community" in the first place.

Here's a thought. We don't have a black male shortage. There are plenty of black males. We have a black MAN shortage. There is a difference. By virtue of genitalia determines the male gender. The successful negotiation of the male's environment make him a man. In other words how he handles himself. If our males became men our women wouldn't be singing this same old tired song "ain't no available black men". Brothers it's time for us to start shouldering the blame and doing something about it. Sisters everything that is good to you is not good for you. This means some of those brothers that are "so sweet" and "kind" and "so thoughful" but you wouldn't give the time of day because they're "just not my type", you know what I mean, are the ones that would cherish you like a queen. I think when we as a people change our values and change the approach to our relations with the opposite sex we'll find more mates matches and less broken families and lonely women.


Peace

Radical Faith

I could care less if it is a shortage or not, the only shortage we got I think is a character one. No one respects character anymore they only respect assets.

There is no black male shortage ! There may be a black man shortage, but not a black male shortage...don't get the two confused ! :read:

I totally agree. There is no black male shortage...only a black man shortage. And this in turn boils down to a shortage of good character as well as responsibility of one's life and those close to him.

i am a Black man and i am not short!

We stay divided because of our mentality. If there is something affecting the black man then there is something affecting the black woman. If the black man is faulty then the woman he came out of is faulty as well.

Although black women, and women period these days are outearning and outlearning their male counterparts, financials and a degree don't quantify a person. I would differ to say that there is a shortage of quality black men and women. It's a shared responsibility. A college degree, a steady job and a 401K don't qualify a person's mental stability or overall fortitude.

A person is quantified and qualified by their actions and deeds and the ability to positively impact those around them.
I've seen a lot of so-called educated and so called good black women who get with low quality men and who also have poorly disciplined and problem children. A degree from a university dosen't make up for a lack of intelligence. Board room saavy dosen't carry over to relationship savvy.

This is not an attack on anyone just a call for us to really look at how we value things and people. Black men who are so-called succesful say the same thing about the shortage of so-called good black women. It's our perception of things and it's really messed up. Our condition is a shared responsibility

How quickly we forget that we layed in each other's vomit and feces at the bottom of the slave ship not too long ago and not by our own choice.

Here's a thought. We don't have a black male shortage. There are plenty of black males. We have a black MAN shortage. There is a difference. By virtue of genitalia determines the male gender. The successful negotiation of the male's environment make him a man. In other words how he handles himself. If our males became men our women wouldn't be singing this same old tired song "ain't no available black men". Brothers it's time for us to start shouldering the blame and doing something about it. Sisters everything that is good to you is not good for you. This means some of those brothers that are "so sweet" and "kind" and "so thoughful" but you wouldn't give the time of day because they're "just not my type", you know what I mean, are the ones that would cherish you like a queen. I think when we as a people change our values and change the approach to our relations with the opposite sex we'll find more mates matches and less broken families and lonely women.


Peace

Radical Faith


Very good points, I've been alluding to this all along!

We stay divided because of our mentality. If there is something affecting the black man then there is something affecting the black woman. If the black man is faulty then the woman he came out of is faulty as well.

Although black women, and women period these days are outearning and outlearning their male counterparts, financials and a degree don't quantify a person. I would differ to say that there is a shortage of quality black men and women. It's a shared responsibility. A college degree, a steady job and a 401K don't qualify a person's mental stability or overall fortitude.

A person is quantified and qualified by their actions and deeds and the ability to positively impact those around them.
I've seen a lot of so-called educated and so called good black women who get with low quality men and who also have poorly disciplined and problem children. A degree from a university dosen't make up for a lack of intelligence. Board room saavy dosen't carry over to relationship savvy.

This is not an attack on anyone just a call for us to really look at how we value things and people. Black men who are so-called succesful say the same thing about the shortage of so-called good black women. It's our perception of things and it's really messed up. Our condition is a shared responsibility

How quickly we forget that we layed in each other's vomit and feces at the bottom of the slave ship not too long ago and not by our own choice.


Excellent points as well!

Hello everyone, this is a very interesting post I've read alot of what you guys had to say and to be honest. Alot of good things have been brought up but one of the things that I find fault with is this notion that alot of women have that the problems with our relationships is solely based on inadquencies in men. Look women chose who they will give their intimate time too and quite frankly just based on my own personal experiences women seem to be making all the wrong choices. I also think some of the things that were mention as far as giving reasons why there seems to be a shortage of black men for black women were valid in a sense, but it really does not go far enough to get to the real issues in our communities. I think for the most part those reasons are no more than surface issues.

The point of my post is to not argue about what the statistics show are to belittle sisters are brothers for that matter, because that will only stifle progress. I must say for the record through that I am a single black man who loves black women and look forward to getting married and starting a family one day. Know with that being said I have also had a rough time with sisters. I've been said to be to nice, and a couple of sisters have said to me that it would be to complicated to be in a relationship with me. I still don't know what that means but anyway before we get into us being in relationships with each other we must first look at how the union between black men and women have been and is still under attack. One thing we must realize is that this country never had any intentions for us to have strong, and healthy relationships with each other that focus on what was in our best interests based on our own social, economical and historical needs. For us to have real african centered relationships would be like suicide to the united states because their whole intentions is to produce docile people who are strong physically, but weak mentally, and emotionally.

That's why so many divisions were made to keep us unfocus are focused on all the wrong things. One of the things that are never talked about when discussions like this are brought up is how we use another culture set of standards when we look at each other as potential mates. Now if we agree that this culture has historical for the most part been a enemy to us. Then I ask why do we constantly use their standards as a barometer of what makes us good, or smart or beautiful. For example alot of black people especially sisters brag about how many degrees they have and how educated they are. One sister even showed numbers were white men had more degrees so black women would have more men to choose from with degrees.
Know afther reading that I thought to myself what the hell does that mean just because a brother does not have a degree that makes him less of a suitable mate than a white guy with a degree. I mean who set these standards and why would you even consider that to be and important factor in choosing a partner. I'll get back to that later anotherthing that is important for us is to start looking at history in more detail because there is this myth and I hear alot of black men and women say it especially the ones who are looking for the great white savior to come and rescue them. That through interracial dating the races will start to come together which in translations mean maybe if we completly ASSIMULATE WITH WHITE FOLKS AND SHOW THEM THAT WE CAN BE JUST LIKE THEM THEn MAYBE ONE DAY THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR VIEWS. Look just because someone who is white dates and marries a black man are women does not mean that they have your peoples best interest at heart.Trust me interracial dating is not a new thing whites have always intermingle with other people and cultures. But the outcome has always been the same.
Just look at the indigenous people of this country who are incorrectly known as Indians most of the early settlers had intimate relationships and even married and had children with these women. I'm sure these men had emotional attachments to these women as well but did this save the indians from the slaughter.
Another good example of this is good old Thomas Jefferson who had several affairs with his slaves most notably Ms. Sally Hemmings whom he fathered several children with, and he to I'm sure had a emotional attachment to this women, but look at the outcome he hated africans and never looked at her are us as full human beings. My point to this is grown men and women can choose who they want to be with I have no problem with that. But black men and women have been mis- educated, and have been made to believe that someone who is outside of us is better suited for us based on a theory of divide and conquer.I think it's about time for us to wake up and grow and develop institution and programs that get us on the right path.

There's no shortage of our Black Men. The men that we don't see...the numbers? These are either brothas who just like some of us sistas? Have high expectations now. They are raising the bar and protecting their interests. Not so quick to jump the broom. With great careers, good money coming in or they are going to school or back to school and if they are choosing us...it's a topnotch sista! these days. They ain't trying to have just any sista run through everything they have spent their lives putting together. They are living their lives to the fullest before committing. "Getting it all out of their system" if you know what I mean. Some are coloring outside the lines as far as pursuing women of other races. But then too, some ARE also choosing "us". Then you have these brothas who have low expectations. NO SELF-anything! They out there doing everything, pulling all kinds of stunts. -ain't got it all out of their system. Some are weak brothas who can't handle a strong sista or insecure brothas who don't really want a secure sista. They are "needy" and are not chosing us because some of us are coming off as "needy" too. (2 wrongs don't make a right so they are bouncing.) Sistas ain't puttin' up with them being needy and they are not puttin' up with us being the same way. A lot white women are snagging them in. When you come to Ohio (seems to be the birthplace of mixed races) you see this typical brotha shackin' up with a white women -or Other black women and HER 3 or 4 kids, while she works pays her bills and HIS. They want to lay up and not pay up. Some white women tolerate this. These brothas are cutting their losses(us)! ABANDONING sistas altogether-and sometimes they're kids with us! Basically, some of these brothas we are not seeing? We probably need to be glad that we don't! So here are the rest that are not in prison. gay. HIV positive. homeless on drugs or DEAD. So I think this is a myth. Just a little sweetbrownsugar for your coffee that's all. This is what I see where I am at.

Well said SweetBrownSugar!

One of the things that are never talked about when discussions like this are brought up is how we use another culture set of standards when we look at each other as potential mates. Now if we agree that this culture has historical for the most part been a enemy to us. Then I ask why do we constantly use their standards as a barometer of what makes us good, or smart or beautiful. For example alot of black people especially sisters brag about how many degrees they have and how educated they are. One sister even showed numbers were white men had more degrees so black women would have more men to choose from with degrees.
Know afther reading that I thought to myself what the hell does that mean just because a brother does not have a degree that makes him less of a suitable mate than a white guy with a degree. I hear alot of black men and women say it especially the ones who are looking for the great white savior to come and rescue them. That through interracial dating the races will start to come together which in translations mean maybe if we completly ASSIMULATE WITH WHITE FOLKS AND SHOW THEM THAT WE CAN BE JUST LIKE THEM THEn MAYBE ONE DAY THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR VIEWS. Look just because someone who is white dates and marries a black man are women does not mean that they have your peoples best interest at heart.Trust me interracial dating is not a new thing whites have always intermingle with other people and cultures. But the outcome has always been the same.

This was very insightful YoungblackCEO, actually your entire post was insightful. If no one else has done so, I welcome you to Destee.com! I hope you enjoy your time here, and that you consider becoming a premium member.

There are plenty of men who are self-sufficient, yet they are some of the biggest whores on the planet. Being self-sufficient does not make a boy a man.

Why must you take one sentence turn it into a “point”? I never said being self-sufficient alone makes one a man. I only tried to give a FEW aspects of what makes a man a man. Please read my post again for clarification.


We just fail to agree and that is cool let’s just leave it as that. :spin:

Okay...do you still love me? :luvv: :glasses:

as i said, i'm not short :lol:

Of course...my love for you is ever lasting :love:

WoW...you've touched the deep side of me. :luvv: Gosh.

Why, thank you!!!! :kiss:

There is never a shortage of Good Black men
Its just the fact that there are alot of prejugdal
Woman that think that all man are the same
When this is constantly preached and woman have these
Waiting to exhale parties which make no sense to me
The dating scene in the CHI there are alot of good people out here in general
I just think that men should be given a chance
Instead of most woman thinking that we are all the same
I always tell a woman in the door whats good
So they already know that I am not looking for a relationship
If the timing is what it is and I am in a relationship
I tell them I am in a relationship and not looking for more than
Whatever happens happens you know???

There is never a shortage of Good Black men
Its just the fact that there are alot of prejugdal
Woman that think that all man are the same
When this is constantly preached and woman have these
Waiting to exhale parties which make no sense to me
The dating scene in the CHI there are alot of good people out here in general
I just think that men should be given a chance
Instead of most woman thinking that we are all the same
I always tell a woman in the door whats good
So they already know that I am not looking for a relationshipIf the timing is what it is and I am in a relationship
I tell them I am in a relationship and not looking for more than
Whatever happens happens you know???

Tantrum, I REALLY appreciate honest men like you. You WARN women. If most men were to just tell women this flat out, many women wouldn't have the jaded, distrusting view they have of men. Many men might not get much sex, LOL!! but they also wouldn't be viewed as users of women either as many of them are.

As I've said before on here, most decent women are looking for a relationship. The majority of decent women are not into bed-hopping. A decent woman of a certain age is willing to invest a lot of heart, mind, soul, money, and energy into making a relationship last. Most of us are looking to make a permanent connection with a man's heart and soul.

I'm not goiing to say what most men are looking for because I don't know, but if most men were looking for a relationship, then I believe there'd be a lot more satisfying and lasting relationships.

Tantrum, I REALLY appreciate honest men like you. You WARN women. If most men were to just tell women this flat out, many women wouldn't have the jaded, distrusting view they have of men. Many men might not get much sex, LOL!! but they also wouldn't be viewed as users of women either as many of them are.

As I've said before on here, most decent women are looking for a relationship. The majority of decent women are not into bed-hopping. A decent woman of a certain age is willing to invest a lot of heart, mind, soul, money, and energy into making a relationship last. Most of us are looking to make a permanent connection with a man's heart and soul.

I'm not goiing to say what most men are looking for because I don't know, but if most men were looking for a relationship, then I believe there'd be a lot more satisfying and lasting relationships.

I dont think there is a big deal about being in a relationship
So many people want a relationship want to get married
Yet I really done see the big deal with this
Its cool to find that someone that makes you happy
I just think that marriage is just a word
If you have that special someone that makes you happy
Just chill out have fun
Stay single and enjoy life

i am a black male and i am not short.............

I dont think there is a big deal about being in a relationship
So many people want a relationship want to get married
Yet I really done see the big deal with this
Its cool to find that someone that makes you happy
I just think that marriage is just a word
If you have that special someone that makes you happy
Just chill out have fun
Stay single and enjoy life

Tantrum, this situation is a good case in point. I don't know how old you are, but I'm in my very early 30s. I want to have children in the next couple of years and I won't consider having children unless I'm married to a man who sees the joys and value in being married and raising children inside a marital relationship. I think people can be married and still have a lot of fun.

If I met a man like you who told me he didn't want a relationship, that he wanted to just have fun, I would know instantly that he's not right for me, so I'd smile and say, "It was so nice meeting you" and I'd be out the door, no matter how attracted to him I might be.

Some women would think they could change your mind. They'd have sex with you and do everything married people do except get married. After a while, the woman would start getting angry at you because she would figure she's given you her all--her time, her heart, energy, sex, money(maybe), etc. yet you still don't want to commit. Y'all would start arguing more and more. Then the breakup comes. The woman goes away angry, bitter and the cycle continues.

Tantrum, this situation is a good case in point. I don't know how old you are, but I'm in my very early 30s. I want to have children in the next couple of years and I won't consider having children unless I'm married to a man who sees the joys and value in being married and raising children inside a marital relationship. I think people can be married and still have a lot of fun.

If I met a man like you who told me he didn't want a relationship, that he wanted to just have fun, I would know instantly that he's not right for me, so I'd smile and say, "It was so nice meeting you" and I'd be out the door, no matter how attracted to him I might be.

Some women would think they could change your mind. They'd have sex with you and do everything married people do except get married. After a while, the woman would start getting angry at you because she would figure she's given you her all--her time, her heart, energy, sex, money(maybe), etc. yet you still don't want to commit. Y'all would start arguing more and more. Then the breakup comes. The woman goes away angry, bitter and the cycle continues.

Yet what causes a woman to be this way
When in the door I state what I am looking for
So if they go im thinking they must have a man
Or they just feel the same way I do
Woman have this thing like you said I can change him
Yet some men prey on that-Knowing they dont really want to be with that person-I just tell everything upfront and its up to that person to do what they do....
Woman need to in my opinion wake up
If I am telling you I have someone and that I just want to have fun
Or whatever I might say at the time
It doesnt mean that you are going to chnage my mind
Its doesnt mean I am going to leave my gurl
It just means it is what it is and its just temporary

Now you say if you were to meet me
And I was to tell you what I said
You would just be on your merry way
I gaurantee it wouldnt bee that easy for you to leave me
I promise you that if it was in that situation
I come from all angles so I would have a come back
I really doubt you would just leave like that
Especially if I really wanted you too stay
Thats just my opinion

Yet what causes a woman to be this way
When in the door I state what I am looking for
So if they go im thinking they must have a man
Or they just feel the same way I do
Woman have this thing like you said I can change him
Yet some men prey on that-Knowing they dont really want to be with that person-I just tell everything upfront and its up to that person to do what they do....
Woman need to in my opinion wake up
If I am telling you I have someone and that I just want to have fun
Or whatever I might say at the time
It doesnt mean that you are going to chnage my mind
Its doesnt mean I am going to leave my gurl
It just means it is what it is and its just temporary

Now you say if you were to meet me
And I was to tell you what I said
You would just be on your merry way
I gaurantee it wouldnt bee that easy for you to leave me
I promise you that if it was in that situation
I come from all angles so I would have a come back
I really doubt you would just leave like that
Especially if I really wanted you too stay
Thats just my opinion

Well, as you say, you tell the woman UPFRONT that you just want to have some temporary fun, that you have a girl already. If a woman agrees to this, then it's TOTALLY not your fault that she gets hurt. Believe me, the VAST majority of men aren't honest like this. His temporary woman finds out later after she has sifted through all of his lies or in other ways that he has a girl.

Oh yeah, a woman like me could walk out of that situation because I'd know I'm being used and I would lose respect for myself if I stayed. Even if I wanted the sex, I'd rather use a vibrator.

Well, as you say, you tell the woman UPFRONT that you just want to have some temporary fun, that you have a girl already. If a woman agrees to this, then it's TOTALLY not your fault that she gets hurt. Believe me, the VAST majority of men aren't honest like this. His temporary woman finds out later after she has sifted through all of his lies or in other ways that he has a girl.

Oh yeah, a woman like me could walk out of that situation because I'd know I'm being used and I would lose respect for myself if I stayed. Even if I wanted the sex, I'd rather use a vibrator.

Yeah Ok
Hope I dont meet you
I will test that
LOL

Even if I wanted the sex, I'd rather use a vibrator.
i used to be able to vibrate.............might still could if you stuck my finger in an outlet..........

i used to be able to vibrate.............might still could if you stuck my finger in an outlet..........

whoa
wow
LOL

i used to be able to vibrate.............might still could if you stuck my finger in an outlet..........

LOL!!!!! James, you naughty man!! (spank, spank) Now there, be good.

There's no shortage of our Black Men. The men that we don't see...the numbers? These are either brothas who just like some of us sistas? Have high expectations now. They are raising the bar and protecting their interests. Not so quick to jump the broom. With great careers, good money coming in or they are going to school or back to school and if they are choosing us...it's a topnotch sista! these days. They ain't trying to have just any sista run through everything they have spent their lives putting together. They are living their lives to the fullest before committing. "Getting it all out of their system" if you know what I mean. Some are coloring outside the lines as far as pursuing women of other races. But then too, some ARE also choosing "us". Then you have these brothas who have low expectations. NO SELF-anything! They out there doing everything, pulling all kinds of stunts. -ain't got it all out of their system. Some are weak brothas who can't handle a strong sista or insecure brothas who don't really want a secure sista. They are "needy" and are not chosing us because some of us are coming off as "needy" too. (2 wrongs don't make a right so they are bouncing.) Sistas ain't puttin' up with them being needy and they are not puttin' up with us being the same way. A lot white women are snagging them in. When you come to Ohio (seems to be the birthplace of mixed races) you see this typical brotha shackin' up with a white women -or Other black women and HER 3 or 4 kids, while she works pays her bills and HIS. They want to lay up and not pay up. Some white women tolerate this. These brothas are cutting their losses(us)! ABANDONING sistas altogether-and sometimes they're kids with us! Basically, some of these brothas we are not seeing? We probably need to be glad that we don't! So here are the rest that are not in prison. gay. HIV positive. homeless on drugs or DEAD. So I think this is a myth. Just a little sweetbrownsugar for your coffee that's all. This is what I see where I am at.


Interesting...lol!

well its **** true, but lissn black men r not short at all, i think there are only 1 or 2 sincere in 10 guys

My Theory is the Devil definintly has it out for our Balck men therefore Black women .I dont belive that we were mean tto be alone otherwise ya know.......
I think that as Balck pepople we dont talk about to many thingsin our community such things as Sex , Drugs , Marraige , and to me the most important Mental Illness .I might be straying off a bit but ,We dont raise our childern correctly or we Fail to educate them , So its no wonder to me that when they grow up They have little clue about how to be in the real world.Look how black men treat their women in Songs , Music Vedeos, ext Like J-Z said in his sond I got 99 problems and a ***** aint one The reason u got 99 problems is because that ***** aint one .Anyways i think there is a shortage of Black men But they chose to be just that . Anyway thats just my expierence. My two babies dads chose not to take care of their seeds.They made that choice.And i dont do the abortion but that was the option that one of them gave me and we havent spoke scine my oldest son was 3 months hes now 6 yrs old and i cant believe it everyday theres not a day that goes by that i am completely taken back when i look at my son about how if he saw what he made would he want to then ?

When one says there is a shortage of Black Men, I see that as an incomplete statement, an abbreviated statement which leaves out factors such as those mentioned by ALA, and others.

For example, many of our brothers are in prison and mental institutions, and still others are unavailable because they are pursuing alternative relationships(homosexuality) and "interracial" relationships. So these factors tend to create some shortages. Additionally, many of us aren't educated and trained and cultured in the manner that many young sisters, professional and otherwise, would have us be, and those sisters have developed their standards, and refused to lower them. This leaves a smaller pool of eligible bachelor brothers out here.

So, yes, depending upon perspective, there are shortages out here, whether we accept that reality or not. JMHO>><<

i am a black man and i am NOT short!

As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single, I don't believe there's a male shortage, but I do think that timing is off between some men and women. For instance, I consider myself a gentleman and a scholar, have never been arrested and am educated. In college I never had a girlfriend because I didn't have a car or a lot of money. I got a lot of attention from white women and Asian girls for some reason, even though I never dated any of them. Black women were angry with me for that, even though I never did anything and they didn't seem to want me in the first place, so basically I was just stuck.

Fast forward almost four years later. I have a decent job and wear nice clothes. I have an old car, but it's payed for and the only debt I have is my college loans. I help take care of my mother who has had a hard time finding work. I don't drink and have never done drugs. I have no children and I think I'm reasonably decent looking.

All that being said, the only difference between me now and back when I was in college is that women have changed. My personality is the same, my character and integrity are the same. Black women have changed. They want different things when they "grow up". Men like me have a difficult time when we're younger, because we're not "cool" and don't know how to "spit game" and whatever else makes a man attractive to a young black woman.

I turned 27 this past November and quite frankly feel no loyalty to my so called sisters, since I feel none was shown to me. I would eventually like to meet, date and marry a nice black woman, but the fact is at this point women who would have been eligible when I was younger are no longer eligible. They either have kids now (a no-no) or haven't healed from a bad relationship in which they chose the wrong guy on purpose (I've never been sure about what women's problem is in choosing a man...). NOW they want a man like me. The bottom line is, brothers like me woke up and decided not to wait on black women to notice us, so we either decided to be alone, raise our standards even higher, or date a different race. Me, I have decided to raise the bar, and am prepared to be alone if I don't meet the kind of woman I like.

I'm not putting all the blame on black women, because most of the stuff above is true (homosexuality, prison, etc.) but the fact is women tend to make bad choices in men. I know too many women who prefer "thug" types, and would consider young men like myself "lame" (I have been called lame to my face on more than one occasion by black women), or "white" if we do things a little differently. By the time these women (which unfotunately seem to be the majority) wake up, it's too late and there's a bunch of bitter black men who want nothing to do with them for different reasons. That's not the whole issue, but that's a major part of it in my opinion. Men need to carry themselves to a higher standard and women need to make better choices and realize that they are the ones who change, not men. Recognize a good man when he's right in front of you, not when he's far ahead of you and out of reach.

I agree and really feel what you are sayin.

People should date who they want. If you want whatever you want...knock yourself out.

And to the posted that said "men should wear that rubber" yes he should (for his own safety as well) but who has more birth control options? One should take responsibility for your own actions.

People should date who they want. If you want whatever you want...knock yourself out.

suppose you happen to want underage girls? go for it?
there are distinct limits on who you date.

People should date who they want. If you want whatever you want...knock yourself out.Wow, how liberal.

And to the posted that said "men should wear that rubber" yes he should (for his own safety as well) but who has more birth control options? One should take responsibility for your own actions. Reminds me of Larry Elder commentary.

This is a fascinating topic
i didnt read through it all but got a good half way, i must give the perspective of a black person living in Europe (part of my family live in america, and the other in europe).

i think we are talking about shortage on many fronts

there is the natural biological shortage which affects all races, there is the 'felt' shortage (effective relationship shortage), this is brought on by both unavailablility and unsuitability factors.

even in the black community in England where i live, there is a a 'felt' shortage of black males brough on by everything from untimely deaths and interracial dating, so much so, there is now talk along the lines of Polygamy for black women.

i have written a book about interracial, relatioshipships (focussed on the helping black women round a number of issues raised here and more).

<< web site link removed by Destee >>

i also wrote this letter to a black newspaper in response to some people advocating polygamy......................



Is Polygamy the Solution to the Male Shortage for Black Women?


In response to the raging debate about polygamy in theNew Nation newspaper, i wrote this response. (Published in New Nation Newspaper 12th June 06)

I must say that it fascinates me that in this day andage, we continue to see relationships for black women, as something they can/must only do with black men, hence, our need for all sorts of desperate strategiesto 'force fit' a larger pool of women, to a smallerpool of men. While I was not too surprised that some men would wholly advocate polygamy (it is the logical position of men as it serves their 'biological'interest to have a surplus of women), I was disappointed but not really amazed, that a woman would advocate polygamy, calling it's prescription courageous! Women in general are well known for championing agendas that do them the most harm! Sad but true. Unfortunately, it is only when women put theirfoot down against any form of 'devaluation' that others take note. Writing a book about interracial relationships, opened my eyes to the uncomfortable fact that a significant portion of our men would rather us endure ..........................


you can see the rest of this letter on

<< web site link removed by Destee >>

i think its time that black women became courageous in looking honestly at this issue because what i often find is there is a lot of ' head burying in sand' or ' ignore it it will go away' kind of thing going on with women even when things are getting worse. we might as well confront the issue unflinchingly to get to the solution!

suppose you happen to want underage girls? go for it?
there are distinct limits on who you date.

Excuse me James, I'll make sure i put in the little details. I never would have thought anyone would consider that as an option however we do live in a world as such. Unfortunate but true.

To clarify, no, not underage girls. I was making reference to race.

People should date who they want. If you want whatever you want...knock yourself out.Wow, how liberal.

And to the posted that said "men should wear that rubber" yes he should (for his own safety as well) but who has more birth control options? One should take responsibility for your own actions. Reminds me of Larry Elder commentary.

If you say so. I was very militant in the past, however things change. Maybe it's age.

welcome to the house of Destee.
i think you should know this site is for black people who want to build with other black people.
if you want to promote IR you should go where that is acceptable.

if you want to open yourself up and accept the sperm of the savage beast that is your own sickness.
please do not excuse your perversion by putting it on anything that black men do or do not.
that is akin to saying that you could not get a date with a man so you became homosexual.
no, it doesn't have anything to do with a man, it is what you wanted to do all along.
take responsibility for your own sickness, that is the first step toward recovery.

I'd like to also note something else in regards to myself. I guess i am saying this due to other words i've stated taken out of context.

I've only dated sistas from the US. I am open to dating other sistas from other cultures and i mean black women. Reason that's what i am attracted too. If she looks like a sista...i may or may not feel her.

However, i don't have any issue with the choice of another as i know i cannot control their thoughts or choices and it is moot to do so.

I do know at the same time that i contribute to this problem of the shortage however it is due to me not dating at all for the past 2 yrs. Anyways, take it for what it is worth.

Peace all.

welcome to the house of Destee.
i think you should know this site is for black people who want to build with other black people.
if you want to promote IR you should go where that is acceptable.

if you want to open yourself up and accept the sperm of the savage beast that is your own sickness.
please do not excuse your perversion by putting it on anything that black men do or do not.
that is akin to saying that you could not get a date with a man so you became homosexual.
no, it doesn't have anything to do with a man, it is what you wanted to do all along.
take responsibility for your own sickness, that is the first step toward recovery.



you havent even read the book yet, so i find it amusing that you have summarised what it's all about. You couldnt be more far from the truth!

Wether you believe it or not, my aim is building up black women (who are one half of the race as it happens). And this means considering their needs, fears, desires and not flinching from discussing even uncomfortable and controversial things, and also not being decieved by the pseudo-gospel of what it means to be black!

there is a modern black woman evolving, who is no longer afraid to articulate her needs, and refuses to have her own concerns; even those of being in a loving and caring relationship, put aside, for the 'show' of being 'strong' and 'loyal'. i think you should prepare yourself for this!

Thinking70...the Black women at this forum aren't STUPID or IGNORANT about their choices in men. We don't NEED to read your book to know nor understand what our options are. Believe it or not, many of us CHOOSE to confine our choices to BLACK men only, in spite of what is reported statistically, about a shortage of them (which has yet to be proven). We are well aware of the fact that men of different racial groups exist and would be more than happy to be our mates if given the opportunity. Why don't we just accept the premise that for the number of those "other" men that aren't chosen by Black women, that's more for you and other women like you who choose to date and marry them. Simple enough?

While you're here, you might want to focus your attention on the fact that the owner of this site (DESTEE) has warned you about spamming your book in every thread/forum you jump into....if you've paid close attention to her avatar, you'll quickly see that she doesn't play...consider yourself forewarned....

And btw, welcome and hope you enjoy your visit with us!

Queenie :spinstar:

Originally Posted by Solo
As a black male who has spent a great deal of his life single, I don't believe there's a male shortage, but I do think that timing is off between some men and women. I agree. For instance, I consider myself a gentleman and a scholar, have never been arrested and am educated. In college I never had a girlfriend because I didn't have a car or a lot of money. Well, would you date a woman who wouldn't give it up, or who was unattractive? I got a lot of attention from white women and Asian girls for some reason, even though I never dated any of them. I don't buy this. Most Black men who say this are only attracted to a certain type of Black woman, but would "do" any type of woman from another race. Black women were angry with me for that, even though I never did anything and they didn't seem to want me in the first place, so basically I was just stuck. ....:rolleyes:.....Most Black women aren't woried about going on a sl*t craze while they're in college, like many white and other women do. Is this why Black men complain they got no "action" in college. If you were looking to have some wild orgy in college, then other women were the perfect pitt stop. Collectively we already have reps for having OOW children and too young at that. Who wants to take the chance of getting knocked up dead smack in the middle of their educational pursuit. Every Black man has access to a Black woman, even if its just a booty call.

Fast forward almost four years later. I have a decent job and wear nice clothes. I have an old car, but it's payed for and the only debt I have is my college loans. I help take care of my mother who has had a hard time finding work. That's awful sweet of you. I don't drink and have never done drugs. Well, that's a good quality. I have no children and I think I'm reasonably decent looking.

All that being said, the only difference between me now and back when I was in college is that women have changed. Women period are attracted to success. My personality is the same, my character and integrity are the same. Black women have changed. You can only say that about the EXACT same women who flipped out once you became successful. ---->They want different things when they "grow up" <---- what's wrong with that? Men like me have a difficult time when we're younger, because we're not "cool" and don't know how to "spit game" and whatever else makes a man attractive to a young black woman. How much spittin game has gotten Black women blown up & looking stupid (pregnant) left to go at it alone? We protect ourselves.

I turned 27 this past November and quite frankly feel no loyalty to my so called sisters, since I feel none was shown to me. A grand payback? I would eventually like to meet, date and marry a nice black woman, but the fact is at this point women who would have been eligible when I was younger are no longer eligible. Why are you still stuck on the same old batch of women, were they ALL THAT?They either have kids now (a no-no)...:?: or haven't healed from a bad relationship in which they chose the wrong guy on purpose (I've never been sure about what women's problem is in choosing a man...). NOW they want a man like me. The bottom line is, brothers like me woke up and decided not to wait on black women to notice us, so we either decided to be alone, raise our standards even higher, or date a different race. Me, I have decided to raise the bar, and am prepared to be alone if I don't meet the kind of woman I like.

I'm not putting all the blame on black women, because most of the stuff above is true (homosexuality, prison, etc.) Are you saying the only reason why Black men are considered undesirable to BW is because of stats? What about negative behaviors?but the fact is women tend to make bad choices in men. Some do, but I'll tell you what: if a Black woman raises her standards, she is considered picky and a gold-digger, thus she gets passed by.....catch 22......darned if you do.....darned if you don't. I know too many women who prefer "thug" types, If they are thugs before these women meet them, then BW are not the ones demanding they be thugs. We get what is available, and where I'm from, 90% want to be a thug! and would consider young men like myself "lame" (I have been called lame to my face on more than one occasion by black women), or "white" if we do things a little differently. SMH. By the time these women (which unfotunately seem to be the majority) wake up, it's too late and there's a bunch of bitter black men who want nothing to do with them for different reasons. That's not the whole issue, but that's a major part of it in my opinion. ---->Men need to carry themselves to a higher standard and women need to make better choices and realize that they are the ones who change, not men. Recognize a good man when he's right in front of you, not when he's far ahead of you and out of reach.<---- I agree with this last paragraph.

If you say so. I was very militant in the past, however things change. Maybe it's age.

To each his own...live ya life Lovn'. With age comes grace:sand:

you havent even read the book yet, so i find it amusing that you have summarised what it's all about. You couldnt be more far from the truth!

Wether you believe it or not, my aim is building up black women (who are one half of the race as it happens). And this means considering their needs, fears, desires and not flinching from discussing even uncomfortable and controversial things, and also not being decieved by the pseudo-gospel of what it means to be black!

there is a modern black woman evolving, who is no longer afraid to articulate her needs, and refuses to have her own concerns; even those of being in a loving and caring relationship, put aside, for the 'show' of being 'strong' and 'loyal'. i think you should prepare yourself for this!
while i did not read the book i did read the title which so repulsed me as to negate any further interest in it or you.

you havent even read the book yet, so i find it amusing that you have summarised what it's all about. You couldnt be more far from the truth!

Wether you believe it or not, my aim is building up black women (who are one half of the race as it happens). And this means considering their needs, fears, desires and not flinching from discussing even uncomfortable and controversial things, and also not being decieved by the pseudo-gospel of what it means to be black!

there is a modern black woman evolving, who is no longer afraid to articulate her needs, and refuses to have her own concerns; even those of being in a loving and caring relationship, put aside, for the 'show' of being 'strong' and 'loyal'. i think you should prepare yourself for this!


:lol: If you had truly bothered to do your homework, you would have discovered that there is a shortage of males in all races in America. Men tend to get involved in things that kill them off. Moreover, if the modern black woman would bother to do her homework, she would discover that these other races have higher incidences of mysogeny and other abuses. But then, maybe this isnt about truly looking at other options. Is it? :thinking:

Thinking70...the Black women at this forum aren't STUPID or IGNORANT about their choices in men. We don't NEED to read your book to know nor understand what our options are. Believe it or not, many of us CHOOSE to confine our choices to BLACK men only, in spite of what is reported statistically, about a shortage of them (which has yet to be proven). We are well aware of the fact that men of different racial groups exist and would be more than happy to be our mates if given the opportunity. Why don't we just accept the premise that for the number of those "other" men that aren't chosen by Black women, that's more for you and other women like you who choose to date and marry them. Simple enough?

While you're here, you might want to focus your attention on the fact that the owner of this site (DESTEE) has warned you about spamming your book in every thread/forum you jump into....if you've paid close attention to her avatar, you'll quickly see that she doesn't play...consider yourself forewarned....

And btw, welcome and hope you enjoy your visit with us!

Queenie :spinstar:

Let me just make it clear that my book is not about railroading bw into other men. infact, at the end of the day my female readers would be like you; women who have explored the issue comprehesively enough to make their own 'informed' descison for or against and this is what i have maintained in all my talks around the issue.

the key word there is 'informed', i come across too many bw who havent done any kind of personal/detailed analysis and are 'quite easily lead' by 'emotional' arguments and black rhetoric. the result is that 20 years down the line, they are bitter and feel betrayed by black people especially men who went about spouting about 'black unity', while maintaining their options to date non-black women or dated the most 'unblack' women available.

for you it might not be important if there is only one black man left in the world. Maybe you receive some psychological 'reward' from being in that state, thats your decsison. but i dont think that you are the one to make general rules for all women, even those on this forum because i have noticed they 2 are a diverse group, and there are others, not of same mind as you on the issue. for them, it is important that there is a 'felt' shortfall of black men. so by all means do not bother with the book, but let others make their own minds up as you have.

i am focussing on those who want to have a further look at the issue and i leave them to make up their own minds after that.

as for the spaming issue, i have already received my call from the moderator herself.

while i did not read the book i did read the title which so repulsed me as to negate any further interest in it or you.

the book is for bw, so unless you are one....






halima sal anderson

Let me just make it clear that my book is not about railroading bw into other men. infact, at the end of the day my female readers would be like you; women who have explored the issue comprehesively enough to make their own 'informed' descison for or against and this is what i have maintained in all my talks around the issue.

the key word there is 'informed', i come across too many bw who havent done any kind of personal/detailed analysis and are 'quite easily lead' by 'emotional' arguments and black rhetoric. the result is that 20 years down the line, they are bitter and feel betrayed by black people especially men who went about spouting about 'black unity', while maintaining their options to date non-black women or dated the most 'unblack' women available.

for you it might not be important if there is only one black man left in the world. Maybe you receive some psychological 'reward' from being in that state, thats your decsison. but i dont think that you are the one to make general rules for all women, even those on this forum because i have noticed they 2 are a diverse group, and there are others, not of same mind as you on the issue. for them, it is important that there is a 'felt' shortfall of black men. so by all means do not bother with the book, but let others make their own minds up as you have.

i am focussing on those who want to have a further look at the issue and i leave them to make up their own minds after that.

as for the spaming issue, i have already received my call from the moderator herself.

While you speak of this mass exodus of Black women from Black men, have you masterminded some sort of 5-year plan during this 'great separation'? If any segregation is embarked upon; it should be where both parties achieve an education, attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another. There is no way I see Black men and women permanently separating. Not I:couple:. Feedback.

"divide and conquer" rears it's head some more ... Our Queens Know their minds around here. they do know of the option. it has been readily demonstrated that there is a majority opinion that the subject is "not a comfortable topic of discussion".

beggin y'alls pardon, but i would opine that this would seem to represent a fair demonstration of this (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40645).

While you speak of this mass exodus of Black women from Black men, have you masterminded some sort of 5-year plan during this 'great separation'? If any segregation is embarked upon; it should be where both parties achieve an education, attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another. There is no way I see Black men and women permanentely separating. Not I:couple:. Feedback.

i love this forum, i just sliped across to write a reply and another posts up


did i indeed speak about mass exodus (hmmm). if you are refering to mass disilusionment of bw, i can only say it is possibly already happening unfortunately. we dont have to physically seperate to be diunited or disconnected as you may well know.

our mothers generation where very selfless and maybe they were encouraged to be this way, by the 'doctinrines' they receieved and because the pressures they faced were such that allowed them to be that way. however wether we are aware of it or not, we live in a very individualistic society and we are influenced by this, even as black people who are more aware of 'community interests'. we are still under pressure to cater to 'individual' needs. there might be tensions, but people will invariable move more towards satisfying individual needs eg if they cant find a man 'in house', they will find him another way!


If any segregation is embarked upon; it should be where both parties achieve an education, attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another.

this is all very 'pie in the sky', whoose gonna do all that. often as bp we make 'recommedations' that are just not practical or realistic to attain or achieve.

people react to more basic imperatives, ask most governments what they do to decrease birth rates, they dont talk counselling or personal development and things they know most people arent even interesting in taking up, they just put up childcare costs and walla, ten years down the line, women are having 2 kids fewer!

i love this forum, i just sliped across to write a reply and another posts up First off, be truthful; are you in a meaningful relationship with a Blackman? Do you have positive Black male influence in your environment?


did i indeed speak about mass exodus (hmmm). Any separation/distance, as you are promoting, is a mass exodus. if you are refering to mass disilusionment of bw, i can only say it is possibly already happening unfortunately. Deluded or not, we need one another, even if not in a romantic sense. We're all we got. Of course you being BLACK; you should know that. we dont have to physically seperate to be diunited or disconnected as you may well know. So, if what you are promoting is not separation...what is it?

our mothers generation where very selfless and maybe they were encouraged to be this way, by the 'doctinrines' they receieved and because the pressures they faced were such that allowed them to be that way. I agree, our mothers were selfless, but you have to understand it was done out of survival, moreso than being stuck-on-stupuid. however wether we are aware of it or not, --->we live in a very individualistic society <---- therein lies the problemand we are influenced by this, even as black people who are more aware of 'community interests'. we are still under pressure to cater to 'individual' needs. there might be tensions, but people will invariable move more towards satisfying individual needs eg if they cant find a man 'in house', they will find him another way!


If any segregation is embarked upon; it should be where both parties achieve an education, attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another.

this is all very 'pie in the sky', whoose gonna do all that. Why wouldn't one consider 'doing that'? Where on earth has that proven ineffective? Do you have a problem with that proposition? That is just a blueprint to get ones life together. Once that is achieved, there would be less stress in a relationship, something that all couples should consider. often as bp we make 'recommedations' that are just not practical or realistic to attain or achieve. Again, I see you're referring to my 'plan'. Why is that so hard to fathom? Is your MO unity?

people react to more basic imperatives, ask most governments what they do to decrease birth rates, they dont talk counselling or personal development and things they know most people arent even interesting in taking up, they just put up childcare costs and walla, ten years down the line, women are having 2 kids fewer![/quote]

Do we think that black men and women have enough social SPACE between them to enable them talk about and dialogue with each other on a variety of issues and in a number of constructive ways?



Ok, when a man tells a woman he wants space in his relationship; what do you feel he is insinuating?
How much spaced is needed when "dialoguing with each other on a variety of issues, in a constructive manner"?

Clue me in, I may be reading you wrong Sis.

i love this forum, i just sliped across to write a reply and another posts up First off, be truthful; are you in a meaningful relationship with a Blackman? Do you have positive Black male influence in your environment?


did i indeed speak about mass exodus (hmmm). Any separation/distance, as you are promoting, is a mass exodus. if you are refering to mass disilusionment of bw, i can only say it is possibly already happening unfortunately. Deluded or not, we need one another, even if not in a romantic sense. We're all we got. Of course you being BLACK; you should know that. we dont have to physically seperate to be diunited or disconnected as you may well know. So, if what you are promoting is not separation...what is it?

our mothers generation where very selfless and maybe they were encouraged to be this way, by the 'doctinrines' they receieved and because the pressures they faced were such that allowed them to be that way. I agree, our mothers were selfless, but you have to understand it was done out of survival, moreso than being stuck-on-stupuid. however wether we are aware of it or not, --->we live in a very individualistic society <---- therein lies the problemand we are influenced by this, even as black people who are more aware of 'community interests'. we are still under pressure to cater to 'individual' needs. there might be tensions, but people will invariable move more towards satisfying individual needs eg if they cant find a man 'in house', they will find him another way!


If any segregation is embarked upon; it should be where both parties achieve an education, attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another.

this is all very 'pie in the sky', whoose gonna do all that. Why wouldn't one consider 'doing that'? Where on earth has that proven ineffective? Do you have a problem with that proposition? That is just a blueprint to get ones life together. Once that is achieved, there would be less stress in a relationship, something that all couples should consider. often as bp we make 'recommedations' that are just not practical or realistic to attain or achieve. Again, I see you're referring to my 'plan'. How difficult is it to achieve? Is your MO unity?

people react to more basic imperatives, ask most governments what they do to decrease birth rates, they dont talk counselling or personal development and things they know most people arent even interesting in taking up, they just put up childcare costs and walla, ten years down the line, women are having 2 kids fewer![/QUOTE]

Now which one do i attempt first (hmm)

second post: i said space in the sense of understanding that we are not joined at the hip in every issue and the kind of 'effective' space, that can allow us to 'objectively' look at problems and confront them in a useful way. i meant no correlation with any 'relationship talk' of an impending split.


i have no problem drawing up a plan for 'the saving of the community' but i believe that the solution needs to be practical, feasible and viable to work. folks are having a hard time going to school as it stands, to think that they would readily take up 'anger managment' (is it going to pay the bills, is what people are most concerened with). anyway, how will you spread the message generally, that folks should sign up. any ideas?

what will happen is that we will simply be preaching to the converted and the same people making the sacrifices will also sign up for 'relationship' course (mostly bw i figure), further widening the 'rift' between the aware and unaware.

on the personal front, my parents are together, half of my relationships (satisfactory) have been with black men.... what other credentials will you be requiring mam... (laughter)

stuck-on- stupid, i am adopting that phrase now (ha ha)

i dont think there is anything wrong in being an individual and taking care of your needs and desires. unfortnately this basic human need is often denied bw and they are made to feel guilty to even reach out for some relief. i cant shake the feeling that obseity, mental illness, aids epidemic etc etc, is somehow tied into the fact that bw have been made to disconnect with their own 'vulnerabilities' and needs and focus on those of others (i am speaking as a woman who has just and still is losing a considerable amount of weight).

This is a fascinating topic
i didnt read through it all but got a good half way, i must give the perspective of a black person living in Europe (part of my family live in america, and the other in europe).

i think we are talking about shortage on many fronts

there is the natural biological shortage which affects all races, there is the 'felt' shortage (effective relationship shortage), this is brought on by both unavailablility and unsuitability factors.

even in the black community in England where i live, there is a a 'felt' shortage of black males brough on by everything from untimely deaths and interracial dating, so much so, there is now talk along the lines of Polygamy for black women.

i have written a book about interracial, relatioshipships (focussed on the helping black women round a number of issues raised here and more).

<< web site link removed by Destee >>

i also wrote this letter to a black newspaper in response to some people advocating polygamy......................



Is Polygamy the Solution to the Male Shortage for Black Women?


In response to the raging debate about polygamy in theNew Nation newspaper, i wrote this response. (Published in New Nation Newspaper 12th June 06)

I must say that it fascinates me that in this day andage, we continue to see relationships for black women, as something they can/must only do with black men, hence, our need for all sorts of desperate strategiesto 'force fit' a larger pool of women, to a smallerpool of men. While I was not too surprised that some men would wholly advocate polygamy (it is the logical position of men as it serves their 'biological'interest to have a surplus of women), I was disappointed but not really amazed, that a woman would advocate polygamy, calling it's prescription courageous! Women in general are well known for championing agendas that do them the most harm! Sad but true. Unfortunately, it is only when women put theirfoot down against any form of 'devaluation' that others take note. Writing a book about interracial relationships, opened my eyes to the uncomfortable fact that a significant portion of our men would rather us endure ..........................


you can see the rest of this letter on

<< web site link removed by Destee >>

i think its time that black women became courageous in looking honestly at this issue because what i often find is there is a lot of ' head burying in sand' or ' ignore it it will go away' kind of thing going on with women even when things are getting worse. we might as well confront the issue unflinchingly to get to the solution!


The title of your book is not about exploring other races for dating options. It is about dating one race. I can only wonder if it explores the abuse stats for this particular race against women as well? Because surely if your intent is to inform, as you say, it will lay out the whole picture.

Or are you just another who will do anything for money?

Let me just make it clear that my book is not about railroading bw into other men. infact, at the end of the day my female readers would be like you; women who have explored the issue comprehesively enough to make their own 'informed' descison for or against and this is what i have maintained in all my talks around the issue.

the key word there is 'informed', i come across too many bw who havent done any kind of personal/detailed analysis and are 'quite easily lead' by 'emotional' arguments and black rhetoric. the result is that 20 years down the line, they are bitter and feel betrayed by black people especially men who went about spouting about 'black unity', while maintaining their options to date non-black women or dated the most 'unblack' women available.

for you it might not be important if there is only one black man left in the world. Maybe you receive some psychological 'reward' from being in that state, thats your decsison. but i dont think that you are the one to make general rules for all women, even those on this forum because i have noticed they 2 are a diverse group, and there are others, not of same mind as you on the issue. for them, it is important that there is a 'felt' shortfall of black men. so by all means do not bother with the book, but let others make their own minds up as you have.

i am focussing on those who want to have a further look at the issue and i leave them to make up their own minds after that.

as for the spaming issue, i have already received my call from the moderator herself.



Hi Thinking70....Welcome to Destee's place! You've expressed that idea that many black males are "talking black and sleeping white/other". Not every Black man condones this behavior, and THOSE are the men we should focus on building with. Why would any self-respecting Black woman demonstrate love and loyalty to someone who clearly neither deserves nor reciprocates it? As a whole the Black community condones disloyalty among its ranks through tolerance, and until we make a firm decision to end that, such fence riding will continue. The solution is not to become part of the problem. Focus on brothers who STAY.....not those who make a decision to leave!

Now which one do i attempt first (hmm)

second post: i said space in the sense of understanding that we are not joined at the hip in every issue and the kind of 'effective' space, that can allow us to 'objectively' look at problems and confront them in a useful way. i meant no correlation with any 'relationship talk' of an impending split.


i have no problem drawing up a plan for 'the saving of the community' but i believe that the solution needs to be practical, feasible and viable to work. folks are having a hard time going to school as it stands, to think that they would readily take up 'anger managment' (is it going to pay the bills, is what people are most concerened with). anyway, how will you spread the message generally, that folks should sign up. any ideas?

what will happen is that we will simply be preaching to the converted and the same people making the sacrifices will also sign up for 'relationship' course (mostly bw i figure), further widening the 'rift' between the aware and unaware.

on the personal front, my parents are together, half of my relationships (satisfactory) have been with black men.... what other credentials will you be requiring mam... (laughter)

stuck-on- stupid, i am adopting that phrase now (ha ha)

i dont think there is anything wrong in being an individual and taking care of your needs and desires. unfortnately this basic human need is often denied bw and they are made to feel guilty to even reach out for some relief. i cant shake the feeling that obseity, mental illness, aids epidemic etc etc, is somehow tied into the fact that bw have been made to disconnect with their own 'vulnerabilities' and needs and focus on those of others (i am speaking as a woman who has just and still is losing a considerable amount of weight).

Darnit, I erased my initial post. Anyhoo here goes..

I was not trying to pry into your personal business; however, I do notice that when a Black woman deisres a Black man and is unable to obtain one, her judgement of them becomes clouded. This is why I asked you if you are intimate with one

I'm not sure about spreading a message or a 'signing up'. There are services readily available to US in dealing with the woes which are prevalent in our communities, which consequently lap over into our relationships. I was merely suggesting.

As far as your weight loss: Congratulations. I wish you blessings in your journey to better YOU.:)

The title of your book is not about exploring other races for dating options. It is about dating one race. I can only wonder if it explores the abuse stats for this particular race against women as well? Because surely if your intent is to inform, as you say, it will lay out the whole picture.

Or are you just another who will do anything for money?

The focus is not resttricted to one race, however given that when bw date out they do so 80% of the time with white men, i dont see i could be effective if i wrote a book about bw and Japanese men!

in the future it is very likely that bw would conduct most of their interracial dating with other men of colour, maybe then there would be a book to reflect this reality.

as for the abuse stats, people can get so defensive about the issue cant they just! Relax this book is not about highlighting the failings of black men, it doesnt even dwell on the black male issue except where it is necessary to bring clarity to arguments. lets stop being too defensive and fearful of the issue.

the book doesnt even condenm black men in any shape or form, its about black women depending on themselves for solutions to their relationship issues, its about them changing their rigid policies if necessary, putting their interest first and about them not blaming black men or expecting them to change, when they have the key to their own salvation

but i guess for people who only see bw as a 'support system' for the race, this can be a very 'revolutionary' idea. (ha)

The focus is not resttricted to one race, however given that when bw date out they do so 80% of the time with white men, i dont see i could be effective if i wrote a book about bw and Japanese men!

in the future it is very likely that bw would conduct most of their interracial dating with other men of colour, maybe then there would be a book to reflect this reality.

as for the abuse stats, people can get so defensive about the issue cant they just! Relax this book is not about highlighting the failings of black men, it doesnt even dwell on the black male issue except where it is necessary to bring clarity to arguments. lets stop being too defensive and fearful of the issue.

the book doesnt even condenm black men in any shape or form, its about black women depending on themselves for solutions to their relationship issues, its about them changing their rigid policies if necessary, putting their interest first and about them not blaming black men or expecting them to change, when they have the key to their own salvation

but i guess for people who only see bw as a 'support system' for the race, this can be a very 'revolutionary' idea. (ha)
it appears to me that your only purpose here is to promote your book and your self and to advance an IR dating agenda.
you have shown not one instance of respect for the purpose of this site which is to build together with other black people.
you have taken our love and good nature as a sign that you can go full bore with your agenda. it is not.

IMO - you sow nothing but disrespect and discord. you have more than worn out your welcome.

The focus is not resttricted to one race, however given that when bw date out they do so 80% of the time with white men, i dont see i could be effective if i wrote a book about bw and Japanese men!

in the future it is very likely that bw would conduct most of their interracial dating with other men of colour, maybe then there would be a book to reflect this reality.

as for the abuse stats, people can get so defensive about the issue cant they just! Relax this book is not about highlighting the failings of black men, it doesnt even dwell on the black male issue except where it is necessary to bring clarity to arguments. lets stop being too defensive and fearful of the issue.

the book doesnt even condenm black men in any shape or form, its about black women depending on themselves for solutions to their relationship issues, its about them changing their rigid policies if necessary, putting their interest first and about them not blaming black men or expecting them to change, when they have the key to their own salvation

but i guess for people who only see bw as a 'support system' for the race, this can be a very 'revolutionary' idea. (ha)


I wasnt being defensive at all. Anyone in this room will tell you, that isnt MY style/MO. Yet you begged the question. If you're going to ask someone to explore else where, did you bother to let them know everything about what they are exploring? Because if you had, then maybe your topic would have ( should have concluded ) that because there is so much abuse amongst them, maybe it would be better if other races were explored 1st. Or, maybe when comparing stats and data, even you would have discovered that there is truly no place like home. Either way, if you data isnt factual or complete, how can your conclusions be?

Thus I submit, that you book was designed to get this little mini rise out of the room. Just to make a quick buck.

Hi Thinking70....Welcome to Destee's place! You've expressed that idea that many black males are "talking black and sleeping white/other". Not every Black man condones this behavior, and THOSE are the men we should focus on building with. Why would any self-respecting Black woman demonstrate love and loyalty to someone who clearly neither deserves nor reciprocates it? As a whole the Black community condones disloyalty among its ranks through tolerance, and until we make a firm decision to end that, such fence riding will continue. The solution is not to become part of the problem. Focus on brothers who STAY.....not those who make a decision to leave!

i would like to think that there is enough of those 'conscious' brothers to go round, so that bwomen could build with them and have no need to 'look out'. but in all honesty, i cant say this. and this is a significant factor to take into account when doing our calculations. indeed lets face facts, because its time to look around and take a reality stock, and stop 'seeing' some ideal situation which hasnt existed since only God knows when.

heres the deal, if the amount of conscious brothers increases, give me a call and i will write another book about the situation, till then, my sense of justice for black women will not alow me to continue to sell them the same ol deceptive doctrine and heart warming 'poetry', about how things will improve so they should just sit back and wait for it. they deserve better than that, they deserve a slice of life too, and a shot at relationship happiness. i dont care if it is with black ,white , japanese or indian.



Halima anderson

stop 'seeing' some ideal situation which hasnt existed since only God knows when

Why hasn't this ideal situation existed since only God knows when?

What people contributed the greatest, to the demise of the Black Family?

Are these the same people you suggest we sleep with now?

:heart:

Destee

i would like to think that there is enough of those 'conscious' brothers to go round, so that bwomen could build with them and have no need to 'look out'. but in all honesty, i cant say this. and this is a significant factor to take into account when doing our calculations. indeed lets face facts, because its time to look around and take a reality stock, and stop 'seeing' some ideal situation which hasnt existed since only God knows when.

heres the deal, if the amount of conscious brothers increases, give me a call and i will write another book about the situation, till then, my sense of justice for black women will not alow me to continue to sell them the same ol deceptive doctrine and heart warming 'poetry', about how things will improve so they should just sit back and wait for it. they deserve better than that, they deserve a slice of life too, and a shot at relationship happiness. i dont care if it is with black ,white , japanese or indian.



Halima anderson


Thinking, you don't have to sell me on the importance of the protection of the "sisterhood"; and again, I'm going to emphasize that I am not suggesting we support black males who betray us. However, to lump all Black men into the same category of traitors is wrong; in this particular point, I am not judging you because at some point we have all failed to see the glass as half full. With that, I will make some points for you to consider:

1.) Many black males who choose "others" have done so with the encouragement of black women. Either their mothers expressed such dissatisfaction with their own BLACK beauty (covertly or overtly) that they pushed them into the arms of the enemy(ies) in a sick attempt to breed out what makes US beautiful as African people. Like it or not, children (including males) imitate what they SEE.....if it's important to you, then it will be important to them. Please do not underestimate the significance of that. Don't underestimate it, and don't misinterpret it to mean that Black men have no responsibility in our relationships and the condition of our race....that is FAR from what I mean. Like it or not, we are often guilty of improper mate selection, so we wind up selecting men who don't treasure us enough to protect us on every level. Dr. Frances Welsing once said that Black women should NOT sleep with Black men who prove to be anti-revolutionary. Can we do more to put that principle into real action? Can we do more to remember that revolutionaries must be RAISED? Can we do more to remember that tolerance (of a behavior) breeds contempt?

2.) The very people you are proposing we mate with are the very architects and beneficiaries of the disintegration of true BLACK love. How do you honestly push this as an alternative to our problems? NO person who claims to be pro-black should willingly align themselves with our enemies. It is not in any way possible to survive as a race unless BLACK men and BLACK women are loving, relating to, and mating with each other. It is a fallacy to believe that without that premise we can survive, as there is no such thing as "pro-blackness" where there are no BLACK people.

Why hasn't this ideal situation existed since only God knows when?

What people contributed the greatest, to the demise of the Black Family?

Are these the same people you suggest we sleep with now?

:heart:

Destee


if one wants to believe the myth that there was this perfect set up between black men and women before white contact, thats fine. i however believe that we would have still had to battle the men for respect and consideration, if whites hadnt entred the picture. by putting off this internal business dealing, we have sold ourselves short and we will not gain the respect necessary to achieve even the healthy black family we hope to achieve by remaining quite on that front. singing kumbaya and writing black poetry is not going to cut it!

our families are in pieces because we neglected to struggle for that bed rock of respect between bm and bw that would have invested value in the black family.

i will add , if for political reasons, one cant stomach white men, there is nothing stopping you from making a connection with hispanic, mexicans and other people of colour. but i suspect even that would be frowned on or bw; she is the mule that must remain within the yard.

i would like to think that there is enough of those 'conscious' brothers to go round, so that bwomen could build with them and have no need to 'look out'. but in all honesty, i cant say this. and this is a significant factor to take into account when doing our calculations. indeed lets face facts, because its time to look around and take a reality stock, and stop 'seeing' some ideal situation which hasnt existed since only God knows when.

heres the deal, if the amount of conscious brothers increases, give me a call and i will write another book about the situation, till then, my sense of justice for black women will not alow me to continue to sell them the same ol deceptive doctrine and heart warming 'poetry', about how things will improve so they should just sit back and wait for it. they deserve better than that, they deserve a slice of life too, and a shot at relationship happiness. i dont care if it is with black ,white , japanese or indian.



Halima anderson
are you basing your thoughts on the idea that there are not enough BM or is it that there are not enough "conscious" black men to suit you?

are your concepts simply based on the lack of a BM for every BW?

for example, in an area or community were there was parity in the numbers of BM & BW, would you then oppose BW going to white men?

she is the mule that must remain within the yard.

Are you equally angry at Black Women, as you are Black Men?

Is that the reason for referring to us as some dumb animal?

You're making it difficult for me to fight for you to remain here.

You might wanna prepare to leave.

:heart:

Destee

Thinking, you don't have to sell me on the importance of the protection of the "sisterhood"; and again, I'm going to emphasize that I am not suggesting we support black males who betray us. However, to lump all Black men into the same category of traitors is wrong; in this particular point, I am not judging you because at some point we have all failed to see the glass as half full. With that, I will make some points for you to consider:

1.) Many black males who choose "others" have done so with the encouragement of black women. Either their mothers expressed such dissatisfaction with their own BLACK beauty (covertly or overtly) that they pushed them into the arms of the enemy(ies) in a sick attempt to breed out what makes US beautiful as African people. Like it or not, children (including males) imitate what they SEE.....if it's important to you, then it will be important to them. Please do not underestimate the significance of that. Don't underestimate it, and don't misinterpret it to mean that Black men have no responsibility in our relationships and the condition of our race....that is FAR from what I mean. Like it or not, we are often guilty of improper mate selection, so we wind up selecting men who don't treasure us enough to protect us on every level. Dr. Frances Welsing once said that Black women should NOT sleep with Black men who prove to be anti-revolutionary. Can we do more to put that principle into real action? Can we do more to remember that revolutionaries must be RAISED? Can we do more to remember that tolerance (of a behavior) breeds contempt?

2.) The very people you are proposing we mate with are the very architects and beneficiaries of the disintegration of true BLACK love. How do you honestly push this as an alternative to our problems? NO person who claims to be pro-black should willingly align themselves with our enemies. It is not in any way possible to survive as a race unless BLACK men and BLACK women are loving, relating to, and mating with each other. It is a fallacy to believe that without that premise we can survive, as there is no such thing as "pro-blackness" where there are no BLACK people.

must it always be black women's fault when bm go astray. thats not really the way to exonerate bm, you only make them appear even weaker! and i could equally argue that bw devalued their 'beauty' because men selected them by criteria that they didnt posess. we only need one glance a music videos and celebrity marraige choices to come up with that conclussion. but cyclic argument this doesnt get us anywhere.

i know there is always a need to place all blame at bw door, but this isnt helpful because you ultimately encourage men not to take on any responsibility. Do we need anymore of that in our beleagured community.

so while and i know that its part of the black womans 'strong' mentality to take on every blame, 'infantalizing' black men as entirely shaped by bw is especially weak. black men are autonomous and we need to stop seeing them as dependent babies.

Like it or not, we are often guilty of improper mate selection, so we wind up selecting men who don't treasure us enough to protect us on every level.

you make it sound like there are all these millions of bm to choose from! does it not somehow present itself to you, that poor choices can have a lot to do with limited pool. think about it, its only logical!

and you need to tell Dr Frances that she should put on her glasses and realise that there arent that many revolutionaries about, or maybe she wants us all in a convent, or to share the revolutionary brothers. or maybe she has come up with the latest technique to clone them!

i apprecaite your argument but i think you are still very much in denial about the numbers issue or you have decided to conviniently overlook it because its one point of the argument that you just cannot supply a solution to.

like i said, if white is out for some women, there are other races.

i have no problem with bm and bw being exclusive, but the conditions have to be possible for that. i know it has been tried but, you cannot make bricks without straw!


Newsflash, there isnt even going to be a black family the way we are going right now!

Destee,

With the mule comment, I believe she meant that Black women carry a disproportionate amount of responsibility in the Black community, compared to Black male responsibility. I've heard that term plenty of times.

Destee,

With the mule comment, I believe she meant that Black women carry a disproportionate amount of responsibility in the Black community, compared to Black male responsibility. I've heard that term plenty of times.

Sister Spicy ... thank you.

:heart:

Destee

Amidst all the atrocities Black people endure, I can understand Thinking70's frustration in Black women not being able to find a quality Black man to spend their lives with. The lack of men in our communities has devastated us. We need our men; I just feel some of them don't feel worthy of taking on their manly roles, either because of: inner demons/guilt, or some just plain don't care anymore. So where does one shift the blame; onto Black men or the bad hand they've been dealt? Sould we just maintain or do we really need to do an 180? With the horrid reminders of how tough life can be; on top of that being black; I believe many Black folks just want comfort, even when it is obvious we need improvement/change. This I feel is the crux of Thinking70's debate stance. I, at one time, shared the same sentiments; however, I strategized and came up with a personal plan:

both parties (BM/BW) achieve an education; attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another.

These are common sense remedies for any relationship in turmoil, they may not be the end-all, but they do pave a way for solace IN realtionships. JMHO


:tennis:

Amidst all the atrocities Black people endure, I can understand Thinking70's frustration in Black women not being able to find a quality Black man to spend their lives with. The lack of men in our communities has devastated us. We need our men; I just feel some of them don't feel worthy of taking on their manly roles, either because of: inner demons/guilt, or some just plain don't care anymore. So where does one shift the blame; onto Black men or the bad hand they've been dealt? Sould we just maintain or do we really need to do an 180? With the horrid reminders of how tough life can be; on top of that being black; I believe many Black folks just want comfort, even when it is obvious we need improvement/change. This I feel is the crux of Thinking70's debate stance. I, at one time, shared the same sentiments; however, I strategized and came up with a personal plan:

both parties (BM/BW) achieve an education; attend relationship improvement courses; parenting classes; anger management classes, and then unite with the objective of building stronger bonds with one another.

These are common sense remedies for any relationship in turmoil, they may not be the end-all, but they do pave a way for solace IN realtionships. JMHO


:tennis:



I understood part of her concerns, although I think she misinterpreted my responses to mean that Black men don't share blame. However, what she posed was and is certainly not a viable alternative....making further investments (particularly emotional ones) in other communities is a rift that is rarely (dare I say never) healed.

i do not condemn anyone for who they partner with. it's a personal matter and i give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
i do strongly object to people recruiting black people to go into IR. when you come on a site and start advising people that they should go to whites,
i look at that as a different thing. that is no longer a personal matter.

i feel that is a direct challenge to the purpose of this site which i understand is to build together with other black people.