Hello Everyone,

Before yall jump on me, we can certainly start a thread asking why Some Black Women Hate Black Men.

The reason I started this one is because I've been hearing and reading much too much of this kind of talk from Black men (in general).

There seems to be a great deal of pain inside some of our Brothers and they are taking it out on us. Black women that gave birth to them, nurtured them, sacrificed for them, had children for them ... Black like them.

I don't understand how negative, blanket statements can be made about Black women, by those who are (or should be) our staunchest defenders. I personally think that white supremacy is at fault. Our Brothers aren't allowed to fully realize their true potential and we, Black women and Black children, are the closest ones to them, the only ones they can really hurt, so they strike out at us ... because the pain must go somewhere. That's what I think, of course I could be wrong.

Please share what you think. I'd love to be able to see it from all sides.

:heart:

Destee

I think too ... because we are Black like him ... he sees no way we can ever help him reach or even get closer to that place of "supremacy" that has always eluded him (due to his black skin) ... because currently, white is required for that.

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry ... I'm not speaking about any particular Brother or comments made about me specifically.

The topic is a general one, regarding why some Brothers speak and act so negatively toward Sisters. I'd like to try and find, discuss, debate the root cause(s) of this. I am the daughter, sister and mother of Black men. I love Black men and this phenomena throughout our community concerns me greatly.

I want to know what drives some Black men to even go here, to a place that allows negative energies to fester inside of them toward the one species on this earth that is most like him, the Black female.

If you have something you'd like to say about me personally and can back it up with facts ... i'm open to that discussion and would not consider it hate. Let's hear it.

:heart:

Destee

kem, you keep mentioning this feminist movement. blaming it for everything when it fits your needs. but if you didn't know, that movement benefitted white women more than black women. we are still under the same conditions.

i think that black men are believing the hype. look at how society views black women. we are seen as hoes and baby-making machines.

well we can see how much an asset you were to the feminist movement. and as i stated above, the feminist movement was more beneficial to white women than to black women.

so you an old rockhead man, now you are showing more and more of yourself. again, gives reason to ignore your rhetoric.

I would think it would ti in their somewhere... As you were saying Kem... So back then the sisters weren't supportive of their black brothers either? and what was the hint that you felt they didn't catch... Unfortunately, I wasn't even born then so Please inform...

I have been treated very well by my black brothers. As far as the ones that were disrespectful, I took care of that promptly. I'm not living in a fairy tale, I just think women need to carry their fair share of responsibility when it comes to a relationship.

I carry myself in a way that I will be respected. I carry myself in a confident, friendly manner. I have very precious friendships with men and we often talk about male/female relationships. They tell me I am different from most Black women. I know that isn't true, because most of my female friends are like me.

Two of my friends and I attended a love and relationship seminar held in Atlanta and sponsored by one of the local radio stations. We attended because one of my good friends was a presenter in one of the seminars. He has written two books.

There was a panel discussion with local celebrities after the seminars. People from the audience asked questions. We were amazed at the number of Black women with issues. In fact, several sisters gave us dirty looks because some of the drama was quite funny and we couldn't help but find it hilarious. Most of the drama the women were going through could've been avoided.

I admit I hate the way Black women are depicted in videos, but they couldn't be depicted that way if the women didn't want to get paid.

When was their a movement on Black Advancement. I thought it was the feminist movement. And how did that promote Black Advancement? For a sister to support their brothers as well as themselves. Doesn't history show that the Black male was the first to turn their backs on us as opposed to the Black female. What was the cause and effect behind that? Or is that other column?

Thanks everyone for responding. Especially good to be reading you again Shaneak, welcome home :love:

Shaneak you are absolutely right. The feminist movement was not about the advancement of black folk, it really had nothing to do with us ... other than using us to sell their agenda.

I'd like to get to the root of the problem, if we can. Where it started, how we got here. Kemetstry suggested that it's a natural process due to the fact that black women are oftentimes the heads of familes. While this may in fact contribute in some small way to this big picture, I don't think it's "natural" for a child to hate its mother. If children are hating their mothers, you can best believe the overwhelming majority are hating their fathers as well. If our children are hating us like this, what is the root cause of it?

While we discuss children above, the topic is not about children. I'm talking grown men who are displaying this type of behaviour. Kemetstry, are you suggesting that I look back into the childhood of these men and find that they were raised by single black women and that will be the root of their pain? Is it really that simple? Is it all their mother's fault?

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry ... i'm using the word hate for the sake of discussion ... certainly there are varying levels of disdain ... you can call it what you want ... just want us to be on the same page.

now i aint no psychologist or nuth'n ... but it seems a bit of a stretch to blame the fact that many adult, black men are hating black women ... because they were raised by black women ... it seems more logical that they would hate the parent (more often the male) that was not there for them on a daily basis ... but again i aint no psychologist or nuth'n ...

I personally think the problem is deeper than who was the authority figure in their life while growing up. I think it's rooted in the fact that black men have forever been "inferior" to white men and having "white things ... women, children, perceived status, etc." ... lifts their self esteem in some way. Unfortunately, in gaining these things for themselves ... "black things ... women, children, perceived status (or lack thereof), etc." ... must be sacrificed. Do you think this plays any part at all Kemetstry?

:heart:

Destee

ps ... i have never met a black man that admitted to hating his mother or even having the slightest bit of disdain toward her ... actually, it's quite the opposite ... the black men i know would die, kill, lie, cheat and steal ... for their Mommas.

I just might do that...

acdtually destee, i think you make a very valid point. the majority of the men i know, don't express disdain for their mothers but are very disappointed in their fathers. in fact, many especially those with children are making it a point to be NOT LIKE THEIR FATHERS. meaning that if they were raised by their mothers, they make sure they are apart of their children's lives.

i feel that men who express a hate for black women are subsciously hating themselves. i really trip out when i hear men calling women hos, stanks and other disparaging words because if they become involved with these women, and have these kinds of thoughts for these women, then that doesn't say very much about themselves. that deep down inside, without them knowing it, they themselves are what the despise.

as i stated beofre, they are falling for the hype, eating it up wholeheartedly. we have so many negative images of black women and you rarely ever see any of the positive. our images are most likely shaped by media representation. before we were only seen as maids and mammies. now we were are seen and hos, *******, stanks, and welfare mothers.

well if it is one thing that I do know, we stereotype our problems about our relationships with one another to the extreme. Alot of attention has always been focused on us. I mean lets be for real, what if Former President Bill Clinton were a black man in office. AAhh you say, and again has anyone watched lifetime lately. White people whew....they don't get along trust me on that. Always will there be an over exposer on us, so the point that we give over exposer to us. The solution is simple Ladies let's start keeping our panties on, Fella's keep your belt notched. White people have what they call, "meeting of the minds." when it's time to come together in truce, they put all nonsense aside they don't sweat the small stuff. Bill and Hillary are still together, and that was the worse any man could do to his woman in his position and for the world to see, happens in the white house more than we'll ever know, that incident would have tore black people apart, and we'd be screaming OOOH THAT TERRIBLE IRRISPONSIBLE TRIFLEN NO GOOD BLACK MAN, OOOH MY GOD WHY DO THEY HATE US SO. yet every last one of us would vote the man back in, GET IT.. we have to quit sweating the small stuff
that that that that's all folks, see ya later:toast:

Many black men as women have felt the pain of relationships. Sometimes bagage is brought to the table. Sometimes we forget as in life that every one is an individual. We link all people as the same, and sometimes we cannot release the pain. All of us are on different levels of intellect as well as spirituality.


I feel that men are judged by just a few, as racism we are all linked together. I don't feel that all black men hate black women, but the negative stero's are linked to all black men as well as women. In this new world order only negativity is focus on. Instead of the postive images and views of black women as well as men. Nevertheless society has its own sense of judgement.

It will always be mud slanging when views are aproach being that many have felt the whip of back lash. There are many who have different views on unity, and this subject will always be the battle field on who is right and who is wrong.

Is it fair to suggest that maybe we as black people are watching way to much television, I mean I do not know about you all, but I cannot relate to these sitcoms on televison and the way black actors and actresses portray us. I have yet to meet any black woman that behaves in the manner of the woman in the Parkers and that daughter of her's, and do black couples really act like the Hugley's, and Bill Cosby's, the Cosbys, mind you I have never run into this type of family before, and maybe just maybe we are beginning to believe our own B.S. And these rappers every last one of them testisfying lfe in the ghetto, and as soon as they produce a movie of everyday life in the hood, it's maniacal, hysterical, stereotypical, insulting, degrading, demeaning all for the sake of making the all mighty dollar, My Black Sisters, we really so involved with our man's genitals according to most of our black female rap artist woud have one believe, according to them is it worth it let us work it, we are backing that thang up, taking off all our clothes because it's gotton so hot, are we finally getting the picture here, were busy selling ourselves out and it has been nobody's fault but our own, what I would give to for once watch television show with and about real black people, We wear Versace's, FUBU's, we wear fur coat's and most are not pimps, and I'm sick of us being portrayed in that way, and what's up with the college movies about us, always bumping and grinding, competing with the white girls, Black Sisters, for real we contrary to belief we really don't pay the kind of attention to black guy's and white woman, as television would have us depicted, were scrounging to reach the top, and no matter what lines are crossed, whose lives aren't and are spared, were a commodity folks, and the takers will spare no expense, God Bless the Child that's got it's own. We Have got to come together,:love:

Black men don't hate black women. They do try to blame them for all of their woes however. Black male self hatred causes them to treat black women badly. However, don't let one of them see a black woman with a white man. Even though they have been dating out by the masses since the 60's. It has nothing to do with hating the black woman. It has everything to do with them hating themselves. When they look at black women, many of them see a reflection of themselves. A reflection that they reject becaue of this hatred. They also feel they are a "commodity" which increases the stupidity that they give off. Other races outnumber black women...I recommend ALL black women EXPAND their options and NOOO longer exclusively DATE BLACK MEN!! :)

oh please, somebody shut him up!

you always talking about some stats. :rolleyes: take a look around and you can see clearly that that more black men are marrying outside our "race" than black women. and this is not a new phenomenon, it started before the 90s.

i also agree that some black men do try to fault black women for all their ills. we get blamed for having children and then in another sentence someone will say it is because of single mothers that we have so many black criminals.

maybe black men (some) don't like that some of us try to hold them also accountable for the conditions in our communities. we're still looking for black men to stand up and make a difference and help us in establishing a village instead of going to someone's house.

just because you say so doesn't make it truth. and there were plenty of black men getting with black men in the 60s. black women were supporting yalls backs while yall were looking at white women just ahead of you.

i don't need no stinking stats or studies to prove my point. look around, even today there are still more black men with white women.

as we all know the standard of beauty is not based on our beauty but of white folx standards. black women have even bought in the same notion, many of us dye our hair and change the color of our eyes trying to become the white standard of beauty.

Hate is a rather strong word to describe the dissention between the sexes, don't you think?

I believe that amid all the conflicting ideals about what constitutes healthy, prosperous male/female relationships in general, our brothers and sisters still struggle for what is right, and yet are still attempting to reconcile what they feel they deserve as individuals.

How much should each gender compromise for the sake of unity?

This is a good question, I would say.

I think Black men go through more drama with Black women. Even when a man has moved on, she gives him drama...also whoever he is involved with.

GOODYMAN ... yes, hate is a strong word. I used it intentionally to draw attention to the thread and because unfortunately, I've seen / heard what looks like hate, directed from some Brothers toward Sisters ... and it concerns me greatly. For the sake of discussion you can replace hate with any weaker (vs. strong) word that you'd prefer.

Yes, it's strong and so too will be the resolve needed to overcome these obstacles between and before us.

Thanks for your comments and welcome to the Forum! :wave:

I think your question is a great one, why not start a new thread for it ... so it can get the proper attention it deserves.

:heart:

Destee

I can't address the question about why Black men hate Black women because I don't know if that's true. I do think that there are issues that exist between the two and I believe they stem from pressures of our society. Long-term struggles around racism in America, and the impact of integration in the 1960s may have taken a toll on the Black family. I don't have data to back that statement up but that's my sense of it.

Keme, interracial relationships is not a product of the 90s. A study of our family genealogy will attest to that for many of us.

Several years back there was an article in either Essence or Ebony magazine where they had conducted a study among Black men and women on the topic of interracial relationships. I don't remember the stats but I found some of the perspectives interesting. At least at the time the study was done, the majority of Black women polled said they would only choose to marry or date a Black man, whereas most Black men declared no racial preference in a partner. There were other instances reported where Black women confined their choices to Black men only and Black men did not. The conclusion reached by the surveyor was that a Black woman's worldview was more limited than a Black man's. When a Black woman thought of selecting a mate, she naturally saw the Black man as her partner. But when a Black man thought of a mate, he didn't see race--he just saw a woman. So a Black man's choices were global...unlimited. At least from his perspective. Can this be the reason why when integration and desegration was legally enforced in this country, the Black community saw a significant increase in the number of Black men choosing women of other races than his own? So, the article concluded by suggesting that Black women begin to adopt the same worldview as the Black man and not see race as a criteria when selecting a mate. Could this be whey we're now seeing an increase in the number of Black women with men of different racial backgrounds?

Hmmmmm....

Keme, that's not true. Some of the interracial relationships that I was speaking of were consensual, and they happened long before the 90s. So you're wrong. Not all of these relationships were the result of white oppression as you imply. And, what do you mean they were never "large"? I don't understand what you mean by that but if you're attempting to say that statistically, these relationships didn't occur as often as Black-on-Black relationships, I agree. Also, since you never supply us with any hard data, I would also disagree that interracial relationships have increased during the 90s. As compared to when? I would think it was safe to suggest that we've been seeing a steady increase in these types of relationships since the implementation of the civil rights laws of 1963. But if this argument is important enough, why don't you do some research of the U.S. Census data and report back the facts. :D

But, getting back to Destee's original question. Do most Black women think that, when a Black man chooses a woman from another racial/ethnic background as his partner, that he hates Black women? I don't think the Black man actually hates, dislikes or however you want to describe it, Black women when he's with a white woman. But I do think something more than physiological and emotional is going on when he does that.

I know some men like that, mostly in my own family, and when I was younger, I thought that they were trying to deny who they were, fight against white oppression, visibly and deliberately spit in the white man's face by showing him that he can have his woman...etc. You see, I grew up in the south during a time when a Black man with a white woman was not only taboo, but grounds for him getting his butt lynched!!!! Post-civil rights movement, what was done in the dark came out in the light. At times, I would ask them why or how they could willingly participate in a relationship like that and their answers were always simple. They would tell me that they "loved" them. Hmmmm. That part I couldn't understand, especially when they were white women and not other women of color (which seemed to be more tolerable somehow). It was easier for me to understand why white women wanted Black men. But I viewed Black men as "our" men and they were coming into our neighborhoods taking someone that belonged to us. Their daddies were white, their husbands were white and they had our Black men as lovers.

To be honest, I still don't get it, but I am slightly more tolerant than before (unless I'm having a bad day or there's a full moon out).

"Where am I getting my data from?" lmao Did you really ask me that? *lol* Ok, please let me qualify my earlier comments by describing them as JUST MY OPINION. Is that better? It's true, I don't have any published data sources to support what I see with my eyes but I did use the SWAG theory (Scientific Wild *** Guess) which is often reliable.

Again Keme, I strongly disagree with you and find it hard to believe that you even take yourself seriously most of the time.

"Interracial relationships were, are and will always be rare. People tend towards their own. That is the nature of things. In the 60s black men were being lynched for even thinking about a white woman. In the 80's they arrested a serial killer that specialized in killing anyone in an interracial relationship. Where are you getting your data from." What planet do you live on?

You can find yourself in some parts of this country today and still get "lynched" for thinking about a white woman but that hasn't seemed to stop some Black men from indulging elsewhere in this country. So what's your point? And if you don't think that interracial relationships are still "rare", then why do you think we have a new box added to the 2000 Census for declaring multi-racial background? You don't think that part of the reason is because there's a growing population of people in this country who meet that specification? Inter-racial, bi-racial, multi-racial...I think the facts are there if you look. African American women might be slow to take that step as compared to women of other races/ethnicities, but I think more Black men find it easier to do. It's not simply a 90s thing Keme, and even before the 90s, it wasn't always done by force or as a result of white privilege. Not always. Some of these relationships were then and probably all are now, consensual.

And the serial killer report only proves that there are still dangerous fools out there!

(((true voodoo move)))

peaceNNQueen, nice to see someone else challenging kemestry rhetoric.

Black men do not hate black women. If you want to know something about a black man ask a black man!!! I love all my sistahs :-) It is a shame when I go into a book store and there is always a story about what a black man is or is not doing and/or something about a black women dating white men. You probably never see anything like this in reverse with white folks. Stuff like this sells and it sells a lot. If you hear anything enough times you will begin to believe it. It is all propaganda. You cannot fool all the people all of the time but if you fool the right ones the rest will fall in line. I agree with Kemetstry that people tend to stick to their own. Although, there are more people today then before and it will seem like there are more interracial marragies.

From: http://www.jointcenter.org/DB/factsheet/marital.htm

Black/white interracial married couples have increased seven-fold since 1960, from 51,000 to 363,000 in 2000. As a percentage of all married couples, this type more than tripled during the period. However, black/white marriages, which represented 34% of all interracial marriages (40,491) in 1960, fell to 24.7% of all interracial marriages (1,464,000) in 2000. About 70% of Hispanics also marry outside their group.


Just like when you watch the news and they show the polls for the president , 9 times out of 10 they are not talking about us. I do not ever recall being asked my views on Bush. We need to stop pointing the finger. I could care less who a person marries. I have a problem with a person who denouces his or her race. This topic reminds me of Malcolm X's speech "You cannot hate the roots of a tree and not hate the tree". Finally, all I want to do is love a black woman why is that so difficult to belive?!

My goodness, now that's some data we can chew on. Interracial marriages have increased that much, huh? It's startling when you see the actual numbers.

Nfant, I don't think that I actually "point the finger" at an interracial couple, but you can't deny the fact that when you see one, certain thoughts do cross your mind compared to when you see a couple of the same race. And I'm specifically referring to Black/White.

I think I can say with total honesty that, no, I don't care who a person marries if I don't know those people. But people that I know and do care about, I would care. Now, does that mean that I have some say so as to who people marry? No. But take my daughter for instance. This is where things get a little cloudier. If my daughter came and told me she wants to marry a white man, I should probably care less as long as he loved her, respected her and treated her like she wants to be treated. BUT...and I'm trying to be honest here...I would not be all that thrilled or comfortable with the idea. I could probably grow to change my opinion over time, but at first, I would have some reservations. But also, I wouldn't think that if my daughter chose to marry a white man, that meant she "hated" Black men. I'm saying that to continue our focus on Destee's original question.

Maybe it should be a non-issue, but to me, it's not.

Race should not matter but it still does. Just the other day I saw this foxy momma with a white boy and yes I started to ponder. I do not know why white and blacks couples draw some much attention but they still do.

Well, I think that one reason Black/White couples draw so much attention in America is because of America's history since the time Blacks were enslaved and that practice became legal and acceptable in this country. The whole psychology behind racism in this country is why we stare. The denigration and dehumanization of Blacks is why we stare. The message and belief that Blacks are an inferior race, on the same evolution chain as monkey's. At the same time, Whites were/are revered as noble and good. They became the better race, someone to admire and edify simply because of the color of their skin. The symbolism around the color white and the color black. The dark and the light; the good and the bad. The constant propaganda put out in mainstream society to reinforce these stereotypes. Jim Crow laws that legally kept the races apart because for them to mix was worse than death. White women lost their purity if they were ever sexually involved with Black men. Although the opposite wasn't true of White men sexually molesting Black women. That was legal. But that only proves that sexism is just as prevalent in this society as racism. But I digress... That's just a sample to explain why I think Black/White couples are still noticed in our society.

I don't know why I'm so late to this one but I have unique a perspective.

I understand why you used the word "hate" Destee. It provokes thought. Good Job!

We as black men do not "hate" black women. There are SOME that are very DISAPPOINTED and very DISSATISFIED with black women but don't hate them.

The fact is we LOVE yalls stankin draws!! The problem is many of us get dissed so many times that we crumble under pressure. It is a case of bumping your head against a wall over and over until you decide to go around. That's all that has happened. Black men don't start seeking white women at 10 or 11 (unless that is all they are surrounded by in their environment). It takes years of pain and heartache at the hands of BLACK WOMEN. It could be, he couldn't get any play or he constantly got put down (called lazy, no good, a dog, weak, yelled at over bull). Whatever the case may be, black women have to except some of the responsiblity for pushing their brothers away. It doesn't make it right that we as black men aren't strong enough to take all of the critism and mistreatment and still be with our black women...but its the case. If you put the shoe on the other foot...and had black men constantly tell you black women that "YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH" eventually YOU WILL find someone who thinks that you are and have disdain for those that told you that you weren't.

From my perspective many women see a black man with a white woman and ASSUME that he hates, dislikes, or dosen't date black women. In my case that was not true. It just so happened that this white woman pursued me for 3 months. I would NOT date her BECAUSE SHE WAS WHITE. She constantly called me racist because of my refusal. After a while I saw her point. I was discriminating against her simply because of the color of her skin. She was attractive, smart, fun, athletic, and liked me..for me. So I dated her. It went well...very well. But in the end when it was time to commit to marriage(after 2 years) I couldn't simply because she was white. That was 7 years ago and I still feel bad about it. But in the midst of the 2 years black women on campus Assumed that I did not like or date black women. That was not true.......and many of them paid me no attention when I tried to talk to them.....so why all the attention when I started dating a white woman?

That fact is-- no matter what you see or even hear coming out of a black mans mouth......WE(95 percent of us) LOVE BLACK WOMEN. Some are just angry that they couldn't have or get along with the black women in their lives. Thus...they turn their anger towards all black women and forsake them for the easier going white women. For some (those who have discarded black women as a whole) it is a sign of weakness so why would you want those men anyway???

Good post, Dre'. I think there are some important messages in your statement that should cause Black women to stop, try to be objective and think.

I wonder if Black women are willing to share the responsibility for Black men choosing to find love, comfort and solice (sp?) with a woman of another race. But the question is, are Black women truly guilty alone in this dilemma?

Personally, the only men I've rejected were those that weren't a good match for me and for reasons that I don't think are superficial, i.e., what car they drove, how much money they made, etc.

I tend to base my compatibility with people using my value system as the measuring stick. If our values differ significantly, then I don't need to be wasting my time or theirs. Some of it is superficial to some extent I guess, like is there a natural attraction there for me, but for the most part I'm not materialistic and I don't "crush" hearts.

I guess there are some hard feelings on both sides of this situation. Black men haven't always treated Black women with respect and admiration either. So in a way, it's a double edged sword. The funny thing about it though is that no matter how many times a Black man hurts a Black woman, she always jumps back in the game and tries again, with a Black man.

True it's not fair for anyone to be judged based on the actions of someone that came before them but it's hard not to let those memories play a role in how we treat people once we've been burned. When people's hearts are involved, there is passion there also. Passion is an intense feeling and so is pain. Neither are easy to forget, get over or manage well. If Black men and Black women were willing to sit down and have conversations like what we share on these boards, who knows, we might discover a solution that is helpful to us all.

"If Black men and Black women were willing to sit down and have conversations like what we share on these boards, who knows, we might discover a solution that is helpful to us all."

I agree whole-heartedly. The problem is that we aren't strong enough to get together and address problem without our emotions getting the better of us. The hurt and pain comes to the surface when discussing sensitive issues such as this, and it prevents resolution from being reached.

Queen--

I keep telling you to quit including yourself in these generalizations because we can see that you are an exceptional black woman and therefore you will be the excepton to almost all of the rules.

I don't know if women will except responsiblity for the role they play in the disdain SOME black men have for black women. I don't know if men will except their responsiblity for being controlled by their previous pains, their abandonment of black women and the pain and dissent that it causes in our black communities.

I have said this before....We need to DEAL with our pains personally rather than push them to the back enabling us to harber ill will. These unchallenged hurts cause us to inflict hurt upon others, keeps us from communicating effectively, and keeps us from healling and moving foward as a race. I don't know what it will take for everyone, but some of us need to quit being so stubborn and seek professional help. Some of may just need to look inward and address the pain head on. Some may just need a form such as this to talk things out and understand that the pain they experienced CAN AND SHOULD be temporary when you have loving, enlightened, strong, trustworthy people whom are willing to help in any way they can....I am willing. Stop thinking "nobody wants to hear my problems" and start thinking "there are those whom I can trust to listen, NOT JUDGE, and help when possible"

I know that was slightly off of the subject. But I felt it was necessary to say...weather or not any one takes it to heart.

My prayer is that we learn to communicate so we can heal.

peace and LOVE

Dre':) ;)

We've had this discussion before about "clinical" therapy and how Black people, mostly Black men, think about that. Even that proves to be a major dilemma for some because they don't want to admit they need it, have too much pride to seek help and become argumentative when someone points out that they are part of a problem.

Black women find it easier to talk about their problems with friends, in my opinion. They don't hesitate to pick up the phone and call a friend to complain about something that their man is or isn't doing for them and their relationship.

I don't know whether Black men do this as easily with their friends. From my observation, Black men spend more time "bragging" about how they are more right than their woman and, probably, how they treat their women. How often will a man ask a friend for help or advice in solving a problem they might be having with their woman. How many men will even say to their woman, "We have a problem, how can we fix it together?"

I met a man from South Africa (Black) a few years ago and he asked me once, "Why are American Blacks so angry?" He said there's anger in our music...he was speaking of gangsta rap, anger when we talk to each other, we just seem so angry all the time.

I couldn't answer his questions, but I understood what he meant. There are no simple solutions, but we have to start somewhere or else we'll self-destruct. Maybe a little talking and a lot of compassion is the key.

Maybe I shouldnt say this... but I found this topic disrespectful because I'm a blackman and I love the queen more than anything.

Dont get me wrong, I understand the post was dedicated to those that dont act silly towards their women. But all its showing a brother like me, is that those that do love you are not being recognised or are not the generalised view of your Afrikan man.

And like I always say on my radio show, your view of Afrikans is dependant on your friends and the TV you watch.

We need to stop focusing on those that bring us down and focus on those that try to uplift us, because like it or not, we are an attention seeking people and thats the reason why some of us do the worst things, because the white/Europeans congratulate the ones who work against us in the media, and also some of us Afrikans who dont fall in that category focus on them too much that the ones who do do something start to wonder if they should carry on, because as soon as they slip everyone notices far more than all the hard work they put down.


It might not relate to the title of this thread, but it does!! I haven't read through this topic. But give me one stating "Black men loving black women" and thats my open invitation.

Thanks. :heart:

N.A.T., thank you for loving and supporting Black women. I started a thread about paying tribute to Black women in the Relationships forum. You might want to check out some other positive comments there as well. :)

NNQueen,

The problem is that most women do talk to their friends about what their man isn't doing instead of talking to their man. They put everyone in their business and the man resents it and shuts down even more.

Regina, I respect your point of view, BUT, let's stop making excuses for men and not giving sisters an inch of the same courtesy or fair-minded opporunities.

Yes, women talk among themselves the same way that men do when it comes to certain topics. I'm not saying that's always right but what's wrong with that? Nothing in my opinion. And not judging the right or wrong of this but sure, women do talk about some of EVERYTHING when it comes to her man...particularly when she's upset. But so do men! That's just the nature of things these days. AND, I'm sure that the mature and respectful ones among us know how not to do that when the relationship is healthy and the couple agree.

Now come on Regina...do you honestly BELIEVE that Black women don't try to TALK to their men when they have concerns? Shoot, knowing most sisters like I do, their man is usually the FIRST person that finds out what's on her mind.

To use women talking to each other about whatever as a reason why Black men HATE Black women is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion! To me, that gives NO CREDIT to the millions of positive relationships that exist and will continue to exist between Black men AND Black women and thank God there are more of THOSE types of relationships than the ones described here!!!

Regina, show some love--give sisters some slack for a change!

:toast:

There are men to blame and women to blame. Women are not blameless. My grandmother always told me, "Just because I love you doesn't mean I am not going to tell you when you are wrong." As women, we must carry ourselves with respect and demand respect from men. Too many women fall in love and lose all of their "common" sense which is really not so common. There is a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I love my sisters.

Regina... meaning no disrespect, BUT...this is about Black men...not Black women, k? You digress!!! Can we stick to the topic, please?

Keme...two words: SEEK HELP!

Going back to the topic...

One reason Black men dislike Black women is because they have hard heads and can't see beyond their own little world.

Regina...don't soften it sis! The topic is about Black Men that HATE Black women...not "dislike" them!

Now, in your opinion...which I respect your right to...you make it sound as though ALL Black men feel this way about ALL Black women.

Even though I've pointed this out, if this is STILL your position, then that includes you and Kemestry and every other Black person living on the planet! Is this what you mean?

But since you wrote it that way, that leads me to ask the question, what is the source of your information?

P.S. And why does the sister's world have to be "little"?

And I forgot...some black women are very emotional and can't discuss topics without taking it personal...

I wouldn't say that some Black men hate Black women--I'd say they all ill-equipped to deal with us. The dynamics of how we relate to each other has changed. Black women are out-performing our counterparts academically and professionally and that causes friction and tension. As Sistas excel, the less-secure Brotha feels left behind and unnecessary which is not the case--we are necessary to each other.
I would hope they don't hate us considering that we are the vessel that makes their existence possible. Without negating the male importance in conception, it is the woman's body that nurishes and nurtures that fetus. We are his first introduction to the world and through us he learns who he is and what he means to the world. I would assume any Black man that hates Black women must also hate himself.

Regina, I would agree with that but would like to add that sometimes people misinterpret disagreement with emotionalism.

Thank you scorp for that intellectual and lucid discourse! :)

You are quite welcome, my Queen...................

I'd like to think that emotionalism is what fuels great men/women.
For example, if Martin L. King (excuse me for being a cliche and using him) wasn't passionate and emotional about the treatment of Black people in this country and didn't take it personally--where would we be? Still riding the back of the bus.

(Young mind here but...)
I hate the way the word "*****" sounds but I often find myself hearing it when people of African descent are speaking to or about a Brotha... Could this word be the link, the key to why our Brotha's think of them selves too low for a position in the "White" house? Is that why he stays in the "hood". Because he is a '*****' and that's where he belongs. With other ******. To beat on his wife and kids emotionally as well as physically. To skip out of town when he heard that he has a baby on the way...
Come on Brotha's, step it up.....give them a reason to not call you a '*****'

Scorp--

I understand and agree with your percetion to a small degree. Women are starting to out-perform men in school and the work place....however, I have yet to meet a man that has a problem with that alone.

Many times the problems start because as a Black woman unfortunately you all have to fight so hard to get ahead (because of racial AND sexual discrimination) that it carries over into your personal relationships. We as men don't want a boss, competitor, or collegue at home, we would like a woman. Many of the women who excell at shcool or work forget to be loving, and nurturing to their men at home.

I personally know some of these women and they feel like it is the man's problem because he should not want a mother as a mate but a partner as a mate. I humbly sumbit that we DON'T WANT A MOTHER (to tell us what to do, and take care of us) we want a FRIEND that we can talk to, laugh with, and love on, who will allow us to be ourselves. And its tough to find that in a woman who is supremely ambitious, very controlling, most of the times uptight, and a lot of the times just not very nice...lol

NDeep....just a word of wisdom....They will ALWAYS think they have a reason to call us that...regardless of what you do.

Why do you care what they think?

Dre....you post far too infrequently, my friend! You've been sorely missed and it's great to see you.

As always, your opinion is valued because you often present sound reasoning and compassion, not malice, in your viewpoint.

Thank you for the insight! It's interesting you stated that men don't want mothers, they want friends. I've often heard women say they don't want to mother their men either. But something seems to happen when we come together that gives people the sense that's what men are expecting.

What do you think it is that men do or expect that makes some women think like this? How do mothers raise a man-child?

I believe that friends can also be lovers. Some people won't agree. But the definition of "friend" varies so widely. If someone isn't a good friend, or isn't perceived to be, is it safe to assume, they will also be terrible spouses/lovers?

If this is true, maybe this is a good argument for people to see if they can be friends to each other before they transcend their relationship into the bedroom.

Peace :heart:

good answer ....................and on point.

dont you know, that back in slavery we were taught to hate each other?
if you can divide the people, u can conquer the country!
black men have been TAUGHT to hate black women from the white masters. in many cases this chain has not been broken,
tho this does not apply to all brothas, it applies to a large number of them. they view sistas as to argumentative, to harsh , to hard to get along with, when in fact if a black womens loves you, from deep in her heart, that is the best thing next to heaven!!!!!
a real sister will nurture and take care of her village, but things have gotten so off centered, with role changes, that many things are off balance.....

I would have to agree with Regina's post, A007, to a some degree NNQueen and definately More's. However I also agree Hate is too strong a word, I would say hostile is more like it. But that goes both ways. They say a boy's first teacher is his mother, teach a woman correctly and she will teach a nation. When a mother teachers her son how to approach her, and speak his mind, with out fear or ridicule...then in all likelyhood, that boy will grow up to respect and treat his woman properly. He will also communicate with his woman, as good as she does with her girlfriends.One of the problems is... far too many boys are taught not to open up, for fear of being seen as a sissy. The direct result of this is the man bottling up his anger, and when a black man gets angry he often finds himself beating the crap out of his woman and/or winding up in jail.

Black people are angry, we have a right to be. But we also need to identify the origin of that anger as well as being able to channel it to it's proper place. When boys reach the age of puberty they often start to rebel. They want to prove that they are becoming a man... since there is no rites of passage anymore that energy gets misdirected in the form of bravado and recklesness. If he is being raised solely by his mother, he may subconciously resent the fact that his father is not around for guidance. Subsequently the mother often does bare the brunt of that resentment.

Many men are also hostile to women, because... let's be real here, lots of women were abandoned by men, and the mother is bitter about it. Growing up the boy will often here you ain't s**t and your daddy wasn't s**t. Thus the man doesn't like himself as a rusult of years of negative reinforcement, he's certainly not gonna care about black women. In a nutshell I think it stems from lack of self-esteem and self-awareness. If a boy gets the right dose of positive reinforcement from the mother, he won't have so much hostility toward the black woman, and more importantly... he would be at peace with himself.

Hotep

Queen,

Thank you. That is very flattering coming from you! I truly do not get to post as often as I would like. My approach to subjects have no malice in them because there is nothing constructive that can come from malice.

To answer your questions with my opinions.....

"What do you think it is that men do or expect that makes some women think like this? How do mothers raise a man-child?"

I believe that men who lack some of the skills or motivation to do things for themselves such as cook and clean make it seem as though they need a mother figure to pamper them....when what they really need is a woman who is willing to do things for him willingly (not out duty) and also teach him that it is ok to do things for himself without having a fight for a control. My mother raised me as a man by treating me like a man and also teaching me what she would have liked in a strong man without putting my father down. Far to many times mothers send mixed messages when they tell their sons to be strong men and in the same breath tell them how sorry their fathers were.

IMHO it is imparitive that people are friends before pursuing a relationship or AT THE VERY LEAST before the consider becoming serious and/or committed to the relationship.

I agree with most of what Isanusu and Sekhemu except to say that there is a vast difference in bottling up one's anger and controling one's actions.

Men who beat up their women and/or hate the opposite sex because of the media (or an isolated incident) have just never been taught self-discipline in a way that promotes constructive expression without using anger as a weapon. Almost all behaviors are learned...so the question is who taught them this or did not teach them the right things.

lol...I believe that Isanasu believes the media is responsible...am I correct in my assumption?

It's interesting to see the different opinions about the state of relationships between Black men and Black women. Even though the reasons may differ, it seems that most agree that there is a problem for us in this area.

Isanusu, you wrote that you think too many forums focus on relationships. Why do you think this way and why do you think it's a sign of selfishness that we've adopted from the slave master because we do here?

In my opinion, I gather a lot from what I read here that many people have either been in or witnessed unhealthy relationships. This means that not all the opinions come from the media per se. I don't deny that there may be truth to what you wrote in terms of why Black men and Black women are experiencing problems, but the fact remains these problems are real.

Isanusu, you claim there's a problem between men and women period which is caused by a uniquely white or European social phenomenon. Whereas this may be true, nevertheless it remains a fact that we live in a predominant white culture and it stands to reason that Blacks will be influenced by their cultural mores' to a large degree don't you think? Their problems have become our problems, so to speak.

Isanusu, how does one undo the affects of racism? How do you suggest we remove the chains and shackles that continue to bind us to these modern day slavemasters? How do we begin to embrace an African culture that we once knew and loved but no longer practice or even have respect for?

I agree that the media has a powerful influence on the way we think and view the world. It teaches and promotes superficiality and instant gratification. It promises that pain and suffering can be immediately eliminated from one's life if you have the right pieces of the puzzle to put together. But seldom are we able to obtain those puzzle pieces, and I question whether we should want to.

The media helps to teach us that we shouldn't focus on the serious things that keep us oppressed, but to keep trying to grab a piece of the American pie even though it's impossible for the majority of us to do. True, the American media does not favor Blacks but I can't blame the media entirely for our demise. It's a tool used for a bigger purpose.

So, as Black men and Black women living in a predominantly white culture, surrounded by things that are of, for and about THEM, how do we grow strong, strengthen our defenses, arm ourselves with powerful weapons and lead a brigade to win this war against terrorism right here in America--called racism?

Until we can do this on a mass scale, I think it's good to continue having these discussions about US because they may just get us up, give us renewed energy and help us to focus on the real problem that isn't even about us, but about a disease that is eating away at us. Once we rid ourselves of the disease, I think a great many of our problems will be resolved to the mutual satisfaction of Black men and Black women.

Peace.

I agree with Queen.

Without getting into it too much here...I have posted a thread entitled The 3 Lies That Keep Blacks in Slavery on the open forum.

I think it will state my veiw.

Queen,

Wouldn't you say that our relationships to each other (or lack thereof) is the biggest problem when it comes to our lack of unity?

This lack of unity seems to undermine every positive goal that we have as a people. So, in that regard, I believe that relationships are of major importance when it comes to moving our race forward. Would you agree?

The woman's movement did little to assist Black woman because the white woman focus was on thier needs and wants not including the needs and wants of woman of colour. While white women were struggling to get higher paying jobs Black women and women of colour were just trying to get jobs.

I haven't gone back to re-read the earlier posts but I believe it's already been stated here that "hate" is a very strong word and doesn't apply to every Black man to describe how he feels about Black women.

Isanusu, I'm glad that you feel compelled to at least comment to threads like this in spite of your view that it's insulting to Black men and probably Black people overall. Believe it or not, your words add value to these types of discussions, so I hope that you continue to breathe deeply as you contribute your thoughts.

It could be that when questions (or statements) like this are asked, it appears to stem from superficial observations, but as I've noticed, some great dialogue is often stimulated because someone put the question out there. Because we may all react differently to questions put to us, those of us that think they may be dumb or insulting should not be so quick to dismiss them as such when we observe how meaningful the dialogue grows around the question.

This forum is not about us individually, but for us as a community. Let's keep in mind those among us who may not be as mature or enlightened as some, so this can be a great opportunity for everyone to learn. Every moment can be a teachable one, which I think is a gift. If you disagree with these types of threads, please continue to be conscious and generous by sharing your opinions. I'm sure someone is benefitting greatly from the dialogue. I know that I am.

How can we explain reasons for such questions? I don't think I'm stretching beyond the truth to suggest that there are members among us who believe this to be true. And because they do, should we not take them seriously or give them an opportunity to express themselves? Who among us living in America has not felt the sting of racism and manifested it's effects in some way that might be painful? Black men, Black women--we are 'victims' of social conditioning that causes some of us to exhibit behavior that is harmful to one's psychological, emotional and spiritual well-being and like a terminal cancer, we are constantly being robbed of our healthy identity which causes us to live in a comatose and self-destructive state of existence. Psychologically, we live in the land of lack. We constantly focus on the negatives and what we don't have. We lack this and we lack that when there's abundance all around us. Every day is a fight and a struggle just to exist and not to become extinct. Some of us internalize racism and some of us rebel against it. But we all try to deal with it in some way, shape or fashion.

Isanusu, I like the fact that you are insulted by this thread. Because to be insulted takes positive energy and transforms it into an emotion that tells me you're not comatose. I'm glad you're awake and conscious.

i can see where isanusu is come'n from a lil...
i really haven't spent a lot of time in this forum...but going through some of the threads...it is absolutely too much male bashing going on...if the tables were turn, i wonder what would happen...my goodness, we can't make it seperately...only together will we strive...too much bitterness is a sour pill to swallow...and can end in your soul becoming hollow...follow?
peace
khasm

:cool:

When a woman tells a man about himself, she is speaking the truth.

When a man tells a woman about herself and backs it up with facts, it is hatred? I dont think so.

:o
I do not understand the point that is trying to be made here, in regard to Destee's question?

Lady Bastet

:cool:

It may play a minor part Destee. I heard something interesting from a youngblood this morining. He said that women have talked themselves into their own problems with the ..I dont need no man. I'm independent and I can do it myself... rhetoric It rings true for some reason.

The reason why most black women say those words that were quoted by Kem, is because black women have been alone for so long without the black man. A black woman has had to carry so much burden, a load so heavy and so strong from many different aspects that is literally broke her back. Black women are trying to find a coping technique and unfortunatly it perpetuates the pain and dsyfunctionalism. Black women do need our men, however with that having been said, we need to be respected, uplifted, loved, and nurtured by our brothers instead of misused, disrepsected, controlled, objectified and thrown away like yesterdays thrash. Where are we shown in everyday society that we are beautiful, needed, wanted and worth having on someones arm? Why is it when we get "rich" we get divorced and left behind with cash but no man cause he has left her for a white, latino, asian woman? How are we depicted as a people having a positive sense of family, coming together in harmony and giving thanks? I know the media is a powerful brainwashing tool, look at videos, listen to hip/hop music, go and see the movies with the sterotypical neck poppin, booty shakin, weave wearing black woman and how it just perpetuates the negativity. WE are caught in a cyclone of negativity. In order to fight it we must first learn to love ourselves as individuals, and then heal each other. Black women are WORTH loving, we are funny, strong, sexy, intelligent and beautiful and I think if our black men could stop believing the hype and really take a look at a part of himself, us being his woman, he would be able to see the natural beauty that is within.

Most of comments are in general terms. Sorry for the rant
Lady Bastet

Black men don't hate black women. They do try to blame them for all of their woes however. Black male self hatred causes them to treat black women badly. However, don't let one of them see a black woman with a white man. Even though they have been dating out by the masses since the 60's. It has nothing to do with hating the black woman. It has everything to do with them hating themselves. When they look at black women, many of them see a reflection of themselves. A reflection that they reject becaue of this hatred. They also feel they are a "commodity" which increases the stupidity that they give off. Other races outnumber black women...I recommend ALL black women EXPAND their options and NOOO longer exclusively DATE BLACK MEN!! :)


I agree with this 100% I will say this, I think it is a good idea for black women to expand themselves and date men of other races. I know too many black women sittin around crying about there being a black man shortage. I personally love my black men, but I will not sacrafice myself, dreams, or goals waiting for them to come around and, either know themselves, feel confident within themselves or wait for them to make up thier minds. Some of these women are in their late 40' and early 50's and still waitin!! I have to admit that it rips my soul apart. I find that men of other cultures have issues just like we do, however, I have found that most are open to dating women of color if the opportunity presents itself. Its just a matter being willing to open your minds. I am not by any means suggesting we abandon black men, I am just suggesting trying something new and seeing where it brings you.
Lady Bastet

I think that it is a couple things. I think it partly has to do with slavery. In reading about the affects of slavery, I am learning that there were a lot of women headed households and illegimate children and I'm learning about the role of grandmothers as ultimate caretakers, (like how we see it now). I'm learning that even after emancipation, men fathered children and left the care of the childrent to the women, although this wasn't the case for everyone. I think that there is a lot of anger in the circumstances of slavery. Men were / are angry at women and women were / are angry at men. They harbored those emotions and have passed them down through centuries.

Another has to do with us as individuals. As I mentioned in another post, we are operating from a foundation of anger, fear, self-hatred, guilt, and shame within ourselves from our history to our experiences with our parents, love, racism, etc. and we make decisions with these toxins within us. We are holding onto these toxins and blame others for things that are wrong in our lives. If you don't love yourself, you can't be mad that a brother or sister disrespected you. You can't blame them. You allowed him to disrespect you because you disrespected yourself. Same for men. A woman abused your trust? Don't blame her. You allowed her to abuse your trust, maybe because you have some pent up anger with your mother and you haven't dealt with that which caused you choose this woman.

A lot of us are not right within ourselves. We let our egos make choices for us. We don't let our spirits lead us, because we are afraid not to be in control. We aren't in control. Some of you may not understand me. You may think I'm a little or a lot weird, but that is fine. I'll give you an example. I am involved with someone and I am not happy. I have allowed him to disrespect me because I have not respected myself. I have made my choices based on fear and anger. I was afraid to lose him, so I accepted what he does to me. I was afraid to be alone, so I accepted. I am angry at my mom because I see her as a beautiful intelligent woman who is alone and I think she has given up. I am angry because I see a lot of her in me and I have fought against it by accepting. I am working on all of this now and it is hard. Its hard to be honest with myself and with others. But I'm doing it. I don't blame him. In my heart I have forgiven him, and even though I have confessed and surrendered all of this to God, my spirit is telling me that I need to confess it to him in order for me to completely heal.

Sorry I went a little off topic. I just wanted to share what I have learned. We need to acknowledge our feelings. Get down to the root causes and don't just let them linger and manifest and spread to other areas and other people in our lives. We have to heal ourselves and forgive ourselves and then we have to do that with all others if we really want peace.

The reason why most black women say those words that were quoted by Kem, is because black women have been alone for so long without the black man. A black woman has had to carry so much burden, a load so heavy and so strong from many different aspects that is literally broke her back. Black women are trying to find a coping technique and unfortunatly it perpetuates the pain and dsyfunctionalism. Black women do need our men, however with that having been said, we need to be respected, uplifted, loved, and nurtured by our brothers instead of misused, disrepsected, controlled, objectified and thrown away like yesterdays thrash. Where are we shown in everyday society that we are beautiful, needed, wanted and worth having on someones arm? Why is it when we get "rich" we get divorced and left behind with cash but no man cause he has left her for a white, latino, asian woman? How are we depicted as a people having a positive sense of family, coming together in harmony and giving thanks? I know the media is a powerful brainwashing tool, look at videos, listen to hip/hop music, go and see the movies with the sterotypical neck poppin, booty shakin, weave wearing black woman and how it just perpetuates the negativity. WE are caught in a cyclone of negativity. In order to fight it we must first learn to love ourselves as individuals, and then heal each other. Black women are WORTH loving, we are funny, strong, sexy, intelligent and beautiful and I think if our black men could stop believing the hype and really take a look at a part of himself, us being his woman, he would be able to see the natural beauty that is within.

Most of comments are in general terms. Sorry for the rant
Lady Bastet

THis post sounds like someone very bitter toward black males. Black men have been painted with one stroke of the stereotypical and generalized brush. THis is very dangerous, particuliarly do to the fact that the majority of black men do not fit this description.

Perhaps instead of trying to tear down the image of black men by making blanketed statements, you will open your eyes to see the beautiful brothers around

THis post sounds like someone very bitter toward black males. Black men have been painted with one stroke of the stereotypical and generalized brush. THis is very dangerous, particuliarly do to the fact that the majority of black men do not fit this description.

Perhaps instead of trying to tear down the image of black men by making blanketed statements, you will open your eyes to see the beautiful brothers around


No man can treat you better than you treat yourself. BLack,white or yellow

Stop the madness

One main reason for a lot of this animosity between our people may of came from the scientific method cited by Willie Lynch, a white slaver owner. I came across a Willie Lynch article a week or two ago. Those who are not familar with Willie Lynch's speech, it basically tells how to make/keep a person a slave. The main idea of the speech is keeping us divided by any ways possible, for example: age,complexion, gender.
http://www.uky.edu/StudentOrgs/AWARE/archives/lynch.html

Well Destee your definetly attacking this from a neutral stance....I see this topic itself is starting to become fierce...(kem)
Just because a black man feels ostracized in our white supremacy society he feels the need to what?!?!....take it out out on who.....sounds a little childish, but hey its my opinion...

Well Destee your definetly attacking this from a neutral stance....I see this topic itself is starting to become fierce...(kem)
Just because a black man feels ostracized in our white supremacy society he feels the need to what?!?!....take it out out on who.....sounds a little childish, but hey its my opinion...

True, SOME black men do take out their frustration on women, however women that allow that need to be pro-active and find a way out or resolve it. However, most of this "hatred" is actually acted out toward other black men. This is reflected in the number of black men being assaulted and murdered by other black men.



Let's keep this issue in it's proper prospective

Peace Family,

In response to this thread’s heading, “What's Up With Black Men Hating Black Women??!”

I’ve tried to read through the many post in this thread and though there were intelligent responses, personal views and various generalizations, I had to eventually return to just the original heading of the thread, as asked, “What's Up With Black Men Hating Black Women??!”

I guess in a democratic and free speech society almost any and every question and debate is legal and possible, but what it may profit an individual or group, may be debatable, in itself.

In direct response to just this thread-heading alone, it is obvious that some feedback, to this accusation would easily be divisive and/or flawed, for the original construct to this erroneous pronouncement is divisive and flawed.

A more acceptable heading, though maybe still somewhat troubling, would have been:

“What's Up With (SOME) Black Men Hating Black Women??!”

Or maybe, “What's Up With Black Men Hating (SOME) Black Women??!”

But, I find the initial title, though quickly mollified by the originator, to be powerfully divisive, offensive and antagonistic.

At worse, some respondents will offend and at best, many responses, especially from black men, would be loathing, apologetic, redirected or defensively flawed.

I guess I have always tried, sometimes, to find reasonable response or objective middle ground to many threads that were initiated in a blunt, insensitive and unredeemable fashion. But, what kind of amending response can one give to such a condemning and generalized accusation, as the one proposed by this heading?

You know when I was growing up, my grandmother, would not let us use the word “hate” loosely. To her, it was the most powerfully negative word in the universe. It belonged in a world, contributed to murderers and villains. So eventually it became the most wicked and egregious four-letter word, in my lexicon.

But in opposite, the word “love”, as my grandmother taught, could only be applied to people. Never to animals, food, inanimate objects or even concepts or ideas, But it was a word exclusively relegated to your relationships with people.

But hey, this is just one humble opinion, from one humble brother, who doesn’t hate Black women.

Peace,

Sun Ship

Hello Family,

Brother Sun Ship, you are absolutely right. I thank you for the very loving and kind way you showed me my error. I too have read thread titles that killed all desire to read further. That was not my intention, please forgive.

If i may, i'd like to share where i was when i posted this thread more than a year ago. There was this Brother, oh my gosh. He drove me krazee. I'm not talk'n just a regular every day normal krazee. So my thinking was tainted. The Brother always seemed to be hating Sisters, blaming everything on us. So, i took that experience and thought on others i'd heard of like him, and started this thread. I had a sincere hope that i might find/read a root reason that caused such a thing to manifest itself in any Brother. So anyway, that's where i was. This is not an attempt to justify my error, just sharing that moment back in time.

I will try to change the title to add "some" to it.

Again, my apologies Brothers, i didn't mean to offend.

Thanks everyone that has shared in this thread.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I think hate comes from the lack of loving ones self. Although it is not the only reason I think it is a factor. God says how can you say you love me and not love your fellow man. I think this world would get a whole lot better if we learn to communicate and appreciate each other. It takes a lot more energy to keep up the act of hate,(not to mention the physical and mental effects it can have on a person) but love comes from within and can heal and strengthen people and relationships and all it takes is a little effort and time.

I think we should give this thread a proper burial unless someone feels the need to view it for therapeutic reasons to get over some personal issues. :help: From my vantage point though, the thread generated some interesting discussion during its life but I think it's a given that it's not a universal emotion or feeling that ALL Black men have so what else needs to be written that hasn't been already? Besides, I agree with Destee, we don't want to offend our Brothers because that was never the intention.

Is anyone else in agreement on this? *grabbing the shovel and the ben-gay*

:thanks: