okay any man who is not comfortable reading about "female" issues, click out now. LOL!

why do they need pantyliners for thongs? if you need a pantyliner, then you most likely shouldn't be wearing a thong.

and why do teenagers or pre-teens need thongs? in the last school i worked, an arts and science middle school, i couldn't tell you how many times i had to be exposed to some little girls thong showing in their low rise jeans.

okay, somebody tell our young black girls that low-rise jeans are not made for us. everyone should NOT have to see the crack on one's *** when bending over. nor should we be able to see peekaboo views of her "goodbasket".

and i am so tried of seeing the ***** of little boys, teenage boys and grown men. pull your dammn pants up, put on a (*#&)(@* belt!!!!!!!that ain't cute. i find it even more disgusting when i see a grown asz man, pants down below his asz and boxers showing. for some reason, they always look dirty to me. yuck!!!!

Just wanted to let ya know I am totally with you on this one. Boys, young men, adult males, girls, young women and grown women ALL need to show more respect for themselves as well as for those of us who have the displeasure and repulsion of having to witness their triflingness. Two very recent examples: just last night I was sitting in my car preparing a bill payment, when up the sidewalk strolls two females (ebony), one of whom had on a supertight pair of pants that were cut extremely low, with these string things extending from the low waistline to her hips. I almost puked--her dangon crack was just right there in my face in full view! How is that crap even legal??? What is the american negress stooping to these days, and why??? The other example, about 2 weeks ago, I was having lunch at a restaurant when this group of girls (couldn't have been older than 15 or 16) walk in. There were about 6 or 7 of them. One of them was prancing around in there (by the way, there were about 5 teen boys in there as well) with a 1/2 top on and some loooooooooooooooow cut shorts or pants, but the thing about the shorts/pants she had on was that she had a cell phone stuffed in the front of them toward the side, held in place only by the waistband. What was worse, was my 9-year-old daughter pointed out how indecently the girl was exposed, and when I remarked that I cannot believe her parents would buy her such clothing, my daughter noted that it was not the clothes, but the way the girl had maneuvered them (she had actually tied the shirt in a way that made it appear as a 1/2 top).

It is a sad state of affairs for the young generation. So desperate for attention (since they obviously get none at home), they beg for it from one another. And for the adults who are indecently exposed, there is NO excuse.

ohh Nia Gurl! i could see this conversation going in several different dialogues...

and YOU know how long and the differnt directions our conversations can go...LOL! sooooooo, i'll give others to chance to comment first...

No Hometraining
No Moral Foundation
No Vision
No S-EL-F Respect
No Historical Purpose
No Reason to be any different
In other words,
mental programming works and works well.
I am touched by your anguish but you both know that what is happening is how it should be. Correct?

Incorrect?

explain oldsoul, why are things the way they should be?

and should we try to make change? where do we begin?

i think we can come up with many different causes, some we will agree upon and so we won't. can we can find many different blames but i think we lack solutions, complacency in acting, and lack of strength in numbers. there is always something to keep us divided.

i will also have to agree about the programming, we live in a media driven society. our children's heroes are rappers and athletes.

If we can agree that we live in a 'controlled' society, not a 'free' society, as many try to believe, then we can understand that MOST people are behaving the way they have been programmed to behave.
For example, we have been taught that there is something called 'normal' behavior. What is 'normal' is not clearly defined, but we all can define what is NOT 'normal'. Why is that?
It is because we are operating under 'sub-conscious' programming.
Here is an experiement to do with yourself and others.
We think in pictures, not words. When I say the word tree, you see a tree in your mind, not the word tree, right?
Every word we hear translates to a picture, but we are not 'conscious' of this.
I will say a word lower down and I want you to try to consciously recall the FIRST picture that comes into your mind. It's important that you conciously try to recall the image, because your 'sub-conscious' will try to keep you from recalling it.
Are you ready?
The word is; GOD
(See the next reply)

If you were primarily raised and educated in the U.S. or Europe, it is almost 100% certain that the FIRST image you saw in your head was a white man.
This is understandable if the word was Jesus, because we're 'aware' that most images of Jesus are of a white man, but why GOD?
Where did you get your mental image of GOD. There are no 'images' of GOD in the media, so the only place you could get that image is from 'sub-conscious' implantation.
The point is this: If your sub-concious image of GOD is a white man, and you have been taught to fear GOD, then you cannot help but to have a 'sub-conscious' fear of white men.
You will also be programmed to sub-consciously 'obey' white men- GOD.
Until a person 're-programs' their sub-conscious, through education, knowledge and understanding, they will operate according to their primary programming.
Think on this and we'll talk more soon.

Pleased to make your acquaintance, oldsoul.....

Point well taken.....

Looking forward to continued dialogue with ya here.

Nia

ohh, i like that!


when i started this thread in was kinda tongue in cheek. but now that we're here...

okay, how can we deprogram the masses?

i talked about the clothes that young women and lordhavemercy, some older women wear.

i have my own reasoning, but why do women wear these clothes or for the matter the young men exposing their *****? (I remember when only the waistband showed.)

For attention from the opposite sex, to be attractive, doing the popular thing, fitting in. afterall, no one wants to be unpopular, right. we all wanted to be wanted.

seeing some of the outfits i see young women wear, what can't this be seen as being selfconfidence?

here's an example, Serena Williams and her catsuit. The young woman and her sister have beautiful bodies. however, now there is no doubt how much booty the woman is carrying. would you say she lacks self-respect and/or confidence?

no historical purpose...

we are lacking knowledge in our own history (american history, world history) and therefore how can we have historical purpose. these things aren't taught in schools and i'm finding some parents aren't aware of the struggles and obstacles we've fought.

i do feel that if we understood the importance of our contributions to this country, we'd have more respect and hope for our futures. white folks needs to know as well.

...in my opinion, is that we are immersed in a culture that is all about what appeals to the eye, rather than being all about substance. You can have a celebrity these days who has more talent than should be legal, yet that will not be enough for them (as it is perceived as not enough for society). Therefore, you have singers/songstresses, athletes, actors/actresses who are mega-gifted in what they do, yet they feel compelled to alter their appearance or put on the most revealing or provocative outfits in a fit to "look" the most outrageous or to "look" the most desirable.

With respect to self-confidence, I think a person can be highly self-confident in one area, yet overcompensate for low-self-confidence in another. MAJOR GENETIC CATEGORY is specifically the common area where a lot of celebs and even everyday folk lack self-esteem. A LOT of celebs and everyday people are ashamed of their Afrikanness. Therefore, where Serena may be confident in her athletic ability and her physique, she may be bereft of confidence in some other area (feeling she is STILL not the "finest" female for example). Hence, we see her (actually I have not seen the outfit{s} but have heard many comments) playing into the whole "show me the goods" sentiment through revealing more body parts. She and Venus are obviously already very beautiful naturally, yet they feel the need to wear hairweaves (blonde ones, at that). Evidence of some self-confidence issues.

We see this same phenomenon at play with celbs like Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, etc. All of them started out highly impressing us with their voices and lyrics, yet they all plummeted into "aesthetic" outrageousness as the culture of hollywood demanded.

ah ha!

goodpoint, i do see people overcompensating in one area of strength for weakness in another.

okay, what do we do to change it? is it possible?

earlier you mentioned your daughter's disgust of the appearance of a young woman, dressed in her media-driven, programmed attire. ;) so you are instilling it in your daughter, or is this something that your daughter developed, realized on her own?

Um excuse me...but I went shopping in Kids R Us for clothes for my 2 year old neice and was bombarded with tiny little mini-skirts, tank tops, sleazy baby clothes...platform shoes for two year olds? I was totally disgusted and there were other mothers in there BUYING EVERYTHING IN SIGHT talking about, "This stuff is just so cuuuutttteeee!" I don't know about them, but I had a real problem with letting my neice look like a **** when she just learned how to walk 1 year ago!

When I approached my sister with the problem, she told me that she noticed that a WHILE ago when she used to shop for my older neice (now 5) and that there are certain clothing lines (like French Toast and a few others) that still have tradtional clothing but charge an arm and a leg because they know they market to mothers who don't want their children to look sleazy....

All of that to say, this isn't just a teenage problem. Today's consumer market obviously demands this type of clothing and if so many parents think it's soooo cuuuuteeee to dress a toddler like a ****, then what will they look like when they become teenagers? I already busted my six year old telling me that he no longer wanted to wear underwear with action figures on them and only wanted to wear WHITE underwear. I thought he was just getting older until I realized that he was sneaking his belt off because he thought that showing the white underwear was cool! Um, EXCUSE ME, but by the time I got finished with him, that belt stays so tight he can barely breathe!!!! I'm on a roll here, but parents need to quit lobotomizing themselves and GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

Redlady, although you are cracking me up, you are totally on point. Actually, a good point made by Kemestry is that we need not simply complain, but take action, writing to the manufacturers of the sleazy clothing as well as to the stores that carry the clothing, letting them know how we feel about the situation. Admittedly, I have not YET taken such action, but it is now on my agenda for this week. A few months ago, I walked into a Family Dollar store, and was looking through the tops on a rack, when I noticed some very questionable and disturbing slogans on the shirts (for girls). Slogans like, "Hold my purse while I kiss your boyfriend" and "I make good boys turn bad", etc. I was appalled, and it was just another indication to me of why our young girls are as off course as they are these days. Adult- scum-capitalists are part of the problem.

Thandiwe, I believe the main factor in whether a little girl will lean toward mainstream culture or be a leader is by example from her parents or those she is around most. It also depends heavily upon how much love she receives at home. My daughter has no shortage of love coming from her father and sees him at least twice during each week and every other weekend, though he and I are no longer together. But the love is there, coming from both a male and a female model. Additionally, my daughter has never seen me dress sleazily, but always modestly, she never sees me sitting in front of the tube, I don't permit her to watch television when she is at home unless it is the news or a videotape I approve of (though she sees music videos and everything else on tv at her dad's home), I don't bring men home although she knows I have gentleman friends. Moreover, I talk to her often about being a leader and not a follower, and not to allow others' opinions to shape her own opinion about herself. She knows that I do not allow people's unfavorable opinions about me to change my principles. I've already gone through sex education with her several times and explained the consequences of indiscriminate behavior. The whole thing is an ongoing process.

it's time for our gods and goddesses to step up and be seen. instead of staying in the office and writing checks, volunteer at a school. parents come see how your children are being treated by their teachers and their peers. u got folks from the ghetto thinking a two year old cussing is cute, u have bet with every video got some skanky looking chick (no matter whether or not she has a PhD) shaking that with dudes with their pants hanging low. i tried to find some decent looking photos of some female singers to put up in my classroom and all of the people that i see are like half nekkit. it's horrible, people know it, but sex sells. sex even sells baby clothes (redlady.. feeling u). the revolution should start with us teaching our children there is a more positive way of life. pick up a book, listen to some jazz or beethoven (kids tripped when i told them his mama was black). but we can't just think our biological children are our only responsibility. if we really love ourselves, if we really love God, we will correct what is incorrect and not pay any attention to the repercussions (parent's attitudes, etc.)
i see it every day, and the walls are slowly being knocked down. but i can't do it by myself. i need parental support as a teacher, community support, and the support of the few people in the media who have influence. it's so much to say.. and i don't have time (class coming in)...
but u feel me,
right?

d

i feel ya!

i have become more involved in the lives of our youth. and we absolutely need to spend more time in schools with our children, not just our biological ones.

too many people are easy to blame single mothers, we also need to see the fathers and have them be responsible too, not necessarily to the mother of their child but AT LEAST TO THEIR CHILD. however, I am seeing more and more black men being involved, this is very encouraging. many of them working as teacher's assistant and special education (where many of our young men are placed).

we also need more rites of passage programs. i'm trying to work on one myself but the grantwriting process intimidates me somewhat.

i also belive that our employers need to give us paid time, a few hours per week working in our schools. these are their future employees, i see it as a benefit. many of the schools in my state have recently made substantial budget cuts. reducing support staff and teachers, increasing the number students in the classrooms, which means that our children are likely to learn less as well. not only have they cut the staff but they were almost foreced to cut the number of hours our children attend school. some district were faced with having to go to a 4-day school week. i would think the employers would want to make the investment in tomorrow's future.

also...

having a parent or teacher assistant of color in the classroom is so beneficial. in my experience, i find that i am able to communicate and get respect from not just the black students but the other ones as well.

The only way to effectively kill-off 'skank chic' like Kem and Nia mentioned is to ENCOURAGE THE PARENTS that they don't need this stuff!

School, church, etc. does NOT replace the rule and role of the home! One of the MAJOR problems I have seen in the classroom and in Juvenile Corrections (where I am now) is that the workers can do 'wonders' with a child, but STILL send them back to parents--single, married and otherwise--who still have a messed-up homelife.

Had a call from some teachers the other day, wanting to help our youth. As a former teacher myself, I listened to what they had to say...but as one who is in the 'system', I had to remind them that if they don't work with the PARENT, the PARENT has every right to say: "Well, who are YOU to tell me how to raise my kid?" And the KID is feeding on this!

I've had other teachers tell me that parents got downright hostile when the teacher/administrator/teacher's aide 'corrected' their child. These are African Americans getting 'flack' from other African Americans. And the flack is FURIOUS.

One more thing. Rites of Passage programs don't work. Yes, they say a lot of wonderful things, and do receive a lot of grant money--but, the child STILL has to return to the environment from whence they came. Change the parent, and you will change the child!

Mike Ramey

"One of the MAJOR problems I have seen in the classroom and in Juvenile Corrections (where I am now) is that the workers can do 'wonders' with a child, but STILL send them back to parents--single, married and otherwise--who still have a messed-up homelife."

rites of passage programs may not work for all but you can't discount them for some. just like religion may work for you, your religion is not the religion of all.

again, it's so easy to put blame on women and girls behavior but a real challenge is getting boys and men to live up to the same plateau when talking to young men about "hos", "*******" and other negative terms for women they may have been involved with, i ask them if you think this way of them, have been involved with them, what does that say about you?

you see, i don't like the term skank, ho, dogs, ******, etc. so that is not how i refer to anyone. i also don't pass judgment upon them in this way. i may not approve of the things they do, may not be the way i do things, but by namecalling and judging them as being trash doesn't help those people either.

Well, getting back to the original issue ---- wouldn't creation of low rise thongs solve the low rise jean problem?

:)

okay any man who is not comfortable reading about "female" issues, click out now. LOL!

why do they need pantyliners for thongs? if you need a pantyliner, then you most likely shouldn't be wearing a thong.

and why do teenagers or pre-teens need thongs? in the last school i worked, an arts and science middle school, i couldn't tell you how many times i had to be exposed to some little girls thong showing in their low rise jeans.

okay, somebody tell our young black girls that low-rise jeans are not made for us. everyone should NOT have to see the crack on one's *** when bending over. nor should we be able to see peekaboo views of her "goodbasket".

and i am so tried of seeing the ***** of little boys, teenage boys and grown men. pull your dammn pants up, put on a (*#&)(@* belt!!!!!!!that ain't cute. i find it even more disgusting when i see a grown asz man, pants down below his asz and boxers showing. for some reason, they always look dirty to me. yuck!!!!

These are serious issues, but I couldn't help but laugh at your delivery!

Yes, somewhere the connection between self-respect and attire has been lost in many of our people.

As for so-called "grown men" displaying this, IMO, no GROWN man would do this.




Oh, and fellas.....If you're over 30, leave the cornrows ALONE.

okay any man who is not comfortable reading about "female" issues, click out now. LOL!

why do they need pantyliners for thongs? if you need a pantyliner, then you most likely shouldn't be wearing a thong.

and why do teenagers or pre-teens need thongs? in the last school i worked, an arts and science middle school, i couldn't tell you how many times i had to be exposed to some little girls thong showing in their low rise jeans.

okay, somebody tell our young black girls that low-rise jeans are not made for us. everyone should NOT have to see the crack on one's *** when bending over. nor should we be able to see peekaboo views of her "goodbasket".

and i am so tried of seeing the ***** of little boys, teenage boys and grown men. pull your dammn pants up, put on a (*#&)(@* belt!!!!!!!that ain't cute. i find it even more disgusting when i see a grown asz man, pants down below his asz and boxers showing. for some reason, they always look dirty to me. yuck!!!!


You're right sis. I say go commando. Panties are unnecessary!